US Army Testing Robots with Shotguns 645
Darren writes "The US Army is testing robots armed with shotguns. The robots are called Packbots and have already seen some action in Iraq. It also has chemical sensors that detect nuclear, biological, and chemical contaminants. Maybe I've seen a few too many bad sci-fi movies, but robots with shotguns scare me."
Dupe? Old? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Dupe? Old? (Score:4, Informative)
The BD people call it a 'disruptor' rather than a shotgun, though.
New NRA slogan (Score:4, Funny)
Now we might have to obey when the great one says; (Score:5, Funny)
cheers,
Adolfo
Re:Now we might have to obey when the great one sa (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Now we might have to obey when the great one sa (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Now we might have to obey when the great one sa (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Now we might have to obey when the great one sa (Score:4, Funny)
Re:New NRA slogan (Score:5, Funny)
"Guns don't kill people, mecha-manical robots do!!"
Re:New NRA slogan (Score:5, Funny)
Re:New NRA slogan (Score:5, Funny)
Re:New NRA slogan (Score:5, Insightful)
-Jem
Re:New NRA slogan (Score:5, Funny)
So what you're saying is that you're the one who will be welcoming our new humorless moderator overlords?
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
1.) Serve the public trust.
2.) Protect the innocent.
3.) Uphold the law.
4.) ??
5.) Profit?
Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
1. A robot may not injure a freedom-loving and Jesus-praising Republican or, through inaction, allow a corporate-loving or anti-abortion Republican to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey orders given it gun-loving and oil-drilling Republican except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law and the contract is given to Haliburton.
4. (Secret Directive) A robot is allowed to kill other robots opposed to the Bush-Ashcroft Law of Robotics.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
You're just now saying that? You should've said that after getting about halfway through Asimov's book "I, Robot". The three laws are essentially a parody of the Ten Commandments intended to illustrate the folly of trying to sustitute iron-clad rules for rational thought by reasonable, ethical people. Asimov never intended the three laws of robotics to be taken seriously.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Interesting)
No, he didn't, but he was quite pleased with himself when he saw the impact they'd had. And rightly so. The three laws of robotics (four if you count the zeroeth law added in later stories) are a wonderful story telling framework, but they do potentially have a serious use. There are people working on making robots that adhere to these laws in some way. Asimov should be considered the forefather of modern robotics (a word he invented) in my opinion, despite the fact he only ever told stories about them.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't worry slashdotians, I fully expect this to be modded down as either offtopic, flamebait, or troll soon enough, so don't get your panties in a bunch, mmkay?
Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Well...Not so simple (Score:5, Insightful)
I bring this up because, the marines have a unique vehicle that should have been recognizable from the air. Moreover, this is a repeat of experiences of the first Gulf War. Supposedly these problems were solved. However, those among the honored dead are in that state due to persistent screwups. If saying it isn't so suffices for you, then you are totally misinformed or are a true believer.
We have real problems that robots alone are not going to solve. When you have idiots at the controls at the very highest levels and a media that repeats their stupid assertions. How can they ever recognize they have created a situation that can only progressively worse? Hitting the right target is not easy particularly when your enemy understands you better than we them. It appears to me we have a prescription for disaster. This is spoken by a person that believed that the Iraq adventure could possibly be successful and benefical to the Iraqi populous.
If ignorance is your guide it is all to easy to repeatedly hit the wrong targets whether by remote control, robotic or in person. That's where we are now.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Informative)
Do you have _any_, and I mean _ANY_ evidence to back this claim up? I can provide you with one side of the equation. More than 100k people have died since the begining of the US invasion on Iraq, as a consequence of that invasion. Here's my source: New scientist [newscientist.com].
Can you point us where it says that Saddam used to kill some 200-300k annually? Or were you just pulling the '2X' out of your ass, because 'we all know he was a murderous tyrant'?
The Iraqis as a people are much better off this year.
Yeah, right. +1, Insightful.
Please put down your weapon... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Please put down your weapon... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Military budgets (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a little too cynical for my tastes, but it's probably true.
DIE DIE (Score:3, Funny)
Re:DIE DIE (Score:4, Insightful)
As opposed to the "honorable death" of blowing yourself up around people just going to work?
Re:DIE DIE (Score:3, Funny)
Re:DIE DIE (Score:3, Funny)
Re:DIE DIE (Score:3, Funny)
Dick Jones: I think you'd better do as he says, Mr. Kinney.
Re:DIE DIE (Score:2, Funny)
Re:DIE DIE (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Die for a Robot (Score:5, Funny)
Gore has repeatedly stated that he would have thrown the terrorists in a lock box. The key to the lock box would also be safely kept away in another lock box.
Re:Shotguns violate the Geneva Convention. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Shotguns violate the Geneva Convention. (Score:5, Insightful)
We shouldn't treat all people like human beings because we expect others to reciprocate. We must treat other people like human beings because we are the Shining City on the Hill, and we must set the example for others.
In any case, a better argument for the Geneva Convention would be Abu Ghraib: look at what a wonderfully effective marketing and recruiting tool those photographs were for Al-Qaida's global franchise...
Ignorance about the Geneva Conventions (Score:3, Informative)
Geneva Conventions [genevaconventions.org]
1. In order for the geneva conventions to apply, both parties have to be signatories.
2. Note that weapons aren't mentioned. The Hague Conventions cover this. *Note: Though the USA follows these conventions, the USA is not a signatory*. The main effect of the Hague is that we're not allowed to use expanding bullets. IE hollowpoints/sof
Re:Shotguns violate the Geneva Convention. (Score:3, Interesting)
Other articles (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Other articles (Score:5, Funny)
uhoh (Score:5, Funny)
The robot is controlled by an integral Pentium based computer. It uses a modular payload system offering standard (USB, Ethernet) communications and networking.
I get this mental picture of some sneaky terrorist with a Sony Vaio sneaking up to one of these packbots and plugging in his cat5...
Robots with weapons (Score:3, Insightful)
But I'm perfectly fine with 200,000 teenagers armed with billions of dollars in "smart" weapons and ordered to do what they are told under penalty of courts-martial.
At least with the human.... (Score:2)
No chance of a conscience with a robot.
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:4, Insightful)
And thats whats happening.
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's like the mosque thing. We aren't normally allowed to attack religious buildings(why would we? It's a waste of munitions). But the moment they start using one for military purposes, like storing weapons, quartering troops, basing weapons there, etc, we're allowed to target it.
Re:Consider this: (Score:3, Insightful)
Nope - We're the 800 pound gorilla. 9/11 woke us up, and now we're pissed and swatting at annoyances. I had a clue back when Bush was elected the first time that Iraq was on his list. We'd been guarding and patroling for the last eight years. If anything 9/11 delayed the invasion.
The reasons for us going into Iraq are many and varied. I believe that we should have taken out Saddam way back when, but we didn't.
In a democracy you have to follow certain rules.
Is there a
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ughhh.... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's called an illegal order. It is my duty as a soldier to A: refuse the order, B: prevent the order from being carried out, to the best of my ability. As in apprehend/shoot the officer if he tries to do it himself.
Re:At least with the human.... (Score:2)
I imagine that the military is planning on implementing these robots in the same fashion as bots deployed in that movie toys - they will be controlled by unknowning teenagers with good reflexes and hand-eye coordination.
Re:This is Insightful?!!! (Score:3, Funny)
I totally took this the wrong way (Score:5, Funny)
I know the robots in System Shock 2 certainly didn't last long.
Re:I totally took this the wrong way (Score:2)
First of all, I'm all with you on the imagining " BLAM! ... Man, that's some hard coding!"
As for why they'd do something like that, Given that they're probably paying $4,000,000 a shot (excuse the pun) for these things, you figure they should be able to survive at least light arms fire.
Good news for farmers... (Score:2)
Should scare you (Score:2)
crivens (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:crivens (Score:2)
wha?
Re:crivens (Score:4, Insightful)
The pump action would be just a single actuatior... Pull triber, activate eject mechannism.
The advantage of a shotgun is that it doesn't require as much in terms of aim.... As long as you're in the general area, you get some sort of hit. I'm expecting that the purpose of the thing is essentially cover-fire, not hunt and kill.
Id say the UZI is more complex. (Score:3, Informative)
The shotgun is a pretty straight-forward weapon.
The action basically consists of:
1) Place Shell in barrel 2) Aim 3) Strike cap to fire 4) Eject shell (repeat).
In the case of the pump-action shotgun, the weapon is cycled by a simple linear motion in 2 directions.
Furthermore, the shotgun has a low requirement for accurate aiming.
The UZI is a bit more of a problem.
Compared to the shotgun, the mechanism of the UZI which provides its 'automatic' cycling using part of the gas from the barrel is quite c
Os? (Score:3, Insightful)
"Private Kinney!" (Score:2)
"Use your gun in a threatening manner."
"Uh, with respect, sir... fuck that!"
Civilians? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Civilians? (Score:2)
'First there was the Mark One War Droid. He was programmed to identify and attack enemies of the state... but couldn't recognise civilians. That required moral judgement.
'The Mark Two was programmed with genuine moral values. He became a pacifist and tried converting human soldiers to his cause... and paid the inevitable price.
'So the Mark Three was given artificial values and emotions: patriotism, thrilling to the nat
Um...don't bomb-defusal robots already have this? (Score:2, Interesting)
And, I also seem to recall (probably on a Fox special) police using a robot with remote camera and a shotgun to negotiate with an armed man (and get the layout of his place)... and this was YEARS ago.
Why is this really news, outside of it containing the "Iraq hotbutton?"
Evil Robot Spider Things (Score:2, Informative)
Many other uses! (Score:5, Funny)
Just imagine the applications:
HUNTER'S HELPER: The lazy backwoods redneck no longer need soil his clothing or even leave the house! Simply be remotely controlling his JethroBot, he can blast away offensive and dangerous deer, squirrels, and "possums" with the flick of a switch! Sure to be a top seller at Wal-Mart stores nationwide.
FOOD FETCHER: Too damned fat to get out the door and make that McDonald's run? Add the handy tray attachment (sold separately) and your shotgun-toting buddy becomes a handy way to get grub once your limbs can no longer support your weight.
PAINTBALL III - RISE OF THE MACHINES:Sick of losing to uber-good paintball players? Buy a fleet of cyborgs, swap those 12 gauges for rapid-fire paint launchers, and tell those wusses "I'll be back". Life-size inflatable Linda Hamilton [imdb.com] doll not included.
interface? (Score:2)
(gives new meaning to "first person shooter")
not autonomous (Score:3, Informative)
Robots with shotguns have been around a long time (Score:5, Informative)
The arms the shotguns are attached to tend to move pretty slowly, and using them against live combatants would not be the simplist task. I think the author of the article was looking to add a little more sauce than necessary. These things are most likely being used to go into hazardous situations to collect information and handle volatile/dangerous substances/objects.
Clone Army (Score:2)
How about ASIMO with a machine gun?
They are kinda cool though. Can you use them for karaoke in their off time?
I hope it's not waterproof. (Score:2)
Bender (Score:2)
Autoguns from Aliens..... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Autoguns from Aliens..... (Score:3, Informative)
Sensationalist Much? (Score:3, Insightful)
The best part of it is that it replaces the "Tunnel Rats" from Vietnam. Instead of sending a human with a pistol to clear a tunnel or cave, you send one of these in.
Robot or R/C (Score:4, Informative)
No scarier or faultprone than a Predator drone, armed with Hellfires, being flown remotely by a pilot on the ground.
Simpsons reference (Score:2)
"The wars of the future will be fought with robots, but it will be your job to build and maintain those robots"
Re:Simpsons reference (Score:5, Funny)
The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea.
They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall
mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by
small robots. And as you go forth today, remember always, your duty is
clear: to build and maintain those robots. Thank you.
Just use the poor (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just use the poor (Score:3, Insightful)
Forced to enlist?
You don't know many people in the military do you?
this is like shooting robots in a barrel (Score:5, Funny)
That sounds handy. I can't think of how many times I've found an NBC weapon and wanted to shoot it with some buckshot.
The same company that makes those cute little household vacuuming robots now has a military robot that is equipped with a pump action shotgun
So all terrorists need to do is set up one of those obstacle wire things from the accessory store, right?
(cut to scene in cave) {BAM] [BAM] "ALL YOUR CAVE ARE BELONG TO US!"
"Dammit Akbar, I thought I told you to set up the obstacle wire! Someone go take its batteries out, for god sakes."
The Pacbot weighs about 40 pounds
Okay. So does it kill terrorists by hitting them with the buckshot, or with its body that flies through the air every time it fires the gun?
And, being ankle-height, what part of the body does it aim at? Ouch...
I for one welcome our new US Army Robot overlords (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I for one welcome our new US Army Robot overlor (Score:3)
Even with reduced abilities, it's still hard to beat a well-trained human being - eyes and hears are going to have higher bandwidth than a microphone and a video camera or other sensors (which are further reduced by the telemetry link bandwidth), and the senses-to-brain-to-trigger latency time is going to be fairly low compared to having to send info to some remote location and then send the response
spammer (Score:5, Interesting)
Compliance assured (Score:3)
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 20 seconds to comply."
"But... I don't have any! I never had any! I don't understand what you..."
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 15 seconds to comply."
"Listen, I'm a western journalist - I'm just here to try and find out the other side of the story..."
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 10 seconds to comply."
"Hmm, it's obviously targeted me in error - is there any way to switch it off?"
"Surrender all your weapons of mass destruction. You have 5 seconds to comply."
"OK now hold on a second - can I communicate with your operator somehow? I mean seriously I'm not anything to do with this and I doubt there were ever any......"
Boom! pump,click.
Does ANYBODY read TFA anymore? (Score:5, Informative)
If they did, they'd discover that the article is actually an excerpt of a larger article. THAT FA was written by a nutritionist/fitness guy, with a semi-nude picture of himself and his sixpack at the end of the article.
If you try to find HIS source, good luck! There are no links to credible sources on that page.
In other words, nothing to see here. This is not a credible source; it's an anti-war rant.
...not to mention the fact that the last thing you'd install on a pacbot is a pump action shotgun, which would require a little robotic arm to work the pump. If the story were remotely plausible, it would have selected a sensible semi-automatic shotgun, not a pump.
Len.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bots (Score:4, Funny)
Re:100000 dead (Score:4, Informative)
Bullshit (Score:3, Informative)
All areas were chosen randomly.
The exact same polling method was used by international agencies, governments etc. to obtain the war deaths amongst civilians in Kosovo and Bosnia. It is an accepted method.
All descriptions I've seen have described 100 000 *additional* deaths to the pre-war death-rate. They asked people the cause of death as well. They found that the leading cause of death pre-war were t
Re:100000 dead (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Robots with shotguns scare me (Score:5, Informative)
All of these robots are remote-controlled. This is no different in concept from arming a Predator RPV with missiles. You're providing a mechanical extension of a human operator the capacity to do a specific job.
Re:Obligatory Robocop Quote (Score:3, Informative)
Nope, The original Robocop was filmed in Dallas. Robocop 2 was filmed in Houston, and the ill-advised Robocop 3 was filmed in Atlanta. I don't think there's enough urban decay in Toronto (or in all of canada combined) to simulate the really nasty parts of Detroit.
Filming locations for Robocop [imdb.com]