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Handhelds Media Music Hardware

Creative Zen Micro Ships Today 388

Posted by michael from the rock-garden-optional dept.
SpaFF writes "Today Amazon started shipping the shipping the Zen Micro, Creative's answer to the Ipod-mini and one of several touted 'ipod-killers' due out for the holiday season. Sporting 5GB of space, a form-factor similar to the Ipod-mini, built-in FM radio, and a REMOVABLE battery, the Zen Micro looks quite promising. Does anyone know if this thing will work with Linux?"
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Creative Zen Micro Ships Today More

Creative Zen Micro Ships Today

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  • One of the reasons (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Pacifix ( 465793 ) <zorp@zorpOPENBSDy.com minus bsd> on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:25AM (#10734810)
    that iPods are so powerful is that it's coupled with the Apple music store. The seamless intergration between reasonable prices and DMR and synching with the iPod is hard to beat. Do any of the new iPod killers have comparable connections to music management software/store? My old MP3 player required MusicMatch, which sucked.
    • To put my comment into perspective.

      The current age of portable music devices and Apple's position at the moment resembles the early Windows age and PCs.

      Apple had the best goods and they got stomped in the end. They got stomped because the other guys were available in more configurations, better pricing, and had greater overall compatibilities.

      I use an iPod and I have spent a good share of money on iTMS but to discount new players because they cannot use iTMS isn't fair let alone brite.

      What keeps me usi
      • "I use an iPod and I have spent a good share of money on iTMS but to discount new players because they cannot use iTMS isn't fair let alone brite."

        You don't think Apple would let this amazing situation they've worked so hard to create slip through their fingers do you?

        Apple only has to flip the switch and open Music Store up to other players, formats and DRM, and the game goes on.

        That's the great thing about technology that a lot of people forget...you can do anything.

        As for the players themselv
        • Wrong, Apple is ONLY making 4c per song on iTunes. It has been argued that iTunes was a loss leader to promote the iPod. if they open iTunes to other players, it may NOT be worth their intrests.

          Secondly, this is NOT the original "iPod Mini" competitor. Create DID release the Muvo2 player earlier (my dad has one) its similar in size to the iPod mini, with a 4gb hard disk, and longer life REMOVABLE LiIon battery.

          The product was MUCH better than the iPod Mini in sound quality and convenience.

          It appeared as
        • Oh yes and Apple has such a great history of opening up their technology to others. Let's see the last time they did it they almost drove themselves out of business. I really doubt you will see Apple opening iTunes while it is still in their control.

        • Re:iTMS isn't going to save Apple in the long run (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Anonym1ty ( 534715 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @12:24PM (#10735404) Homepage Journal

          You don't think Apple would let this amazing situation they've worked so hard to create slip through their fingers do you?

          Apple only has to flip the switch and open Music Store up to other players, formats and DRM, and the game goes on.

          But that's just it... that's all Apple has to do. But this is Apple you are talking about. And that's just it. I don't wanna get all about the Apple zealots, but this just comes down to it.... Do you think Apple is gunna just flip the switch, or will this be another case of "We're Apple and we're better than you!" syndrome?

    • The good thing about Apples store (Score:4, Insightful)

      by shaka999 ( 335100 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:34AM (#10734902)
      Is that you can rip out the DRM. I refuse to buy anything that has DRM such that if the company goes under I'm stuck.

      I already had one machine die and when I contacted Apple to have it removed they made it sound like it was a big deal to take it off my approved list. Just imagine what will happen in 10 years when this technology is old. Whats going to happen? Will Apple be around?
    • How are things in the Apple PR dept these days?
    • I'm almost afraid to post to an Apple thread for fear of the Apple zealots (applets?), but here goes.

      Opinions can be formed one way or another about the convenience of seamless integration to a single source - the same would be called poor design by a software architect. iTunes is a good product though, and I still use it occasionally, although I don't use an iPod. Windows Media Player 10 does the job for me just fine - particularly since I have a variety of media to manage & I especially like the "Sy

    • Re:One of the reasons (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:57AM (#10735117)
      The seamless intergration between reasonable prices and DMR and synching with the iPod is hard to beat.

      iPod owners must be very wealthy. From the iTunes store it would cost on order of $1,000 to fill up an iPod mini, $5,000 and $10,000 for the iPod 20 and 40 giggers respectively.

      • How many CDs do you have? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mellon ( 7048 ) * on Friday November 05, 2004 @12:08PM (#10735236) Homepage
        If you're like me, you've purchased over 100 of them, despite the fact that they cost >$10 each. I didn't buy them all at once, but if you look at the aggregate cost, it is pretty staggering.

        Anyway, we have a 5G iPod from the first batch Apple released, and it's mostly full of dharma teachings, with a few albums, most of which I ripped from my CD collection. So it's actually pretty easy to fill these things up. I don't know how many people are using them to store Dharma teachings, but I can say that in my Dharma group there are a *ton* of iPods, despite the fact that most of us aren't exactly rolling in it.
      • iPod owners must also just be getting into music, as that assumes that they have no music to put on it in the first place.

      • Of course they are! (Score:3, Informative)

        by 2nd Post! ( 213333 )
        The early adopters had two ways to fill up their iPods:

        p2p networks
        CD collections

        If you had 100 CDs, and 14 tracks a CD, and 1mb per minute, and about 3 minutes per song, so 3mb per track, or 42mb per CD, they would have roughly 4200mb of music.

        That also translates to at $12 per CD, $1,200 of music. Not so far off from your iPod mini calculation.

        If they bought all their CDs brand new at $19 a cd, that's $1,900 of music.

        If they had 200 CDs...
        Or compilations...

        See, iPods are dirt cheap compared to music

    • Seamless integration. (Score:3, Informative)

      by JaF893 ( 745419 )
      Seamless integration?
      Have a look here [playsforsure.com] at the compatible music stores. It is drag and drop comptible with Windows Explorer and is Microsoft "Plays For Sure [playsforsure.com]" compatible.

  • Cant post anything constructive (Score:5, Funny)

    by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:25AM (#10734812)
    I am completely mesmerized by the mesmerizing blue backlight glow.

  • OggVorbis Support? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dfn5 ( 524972 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:25AM (#10734813) Journal
    Does anyone know if this thing will work with Linux?

    More importantly, does it work with OggVorbis? Apparently not. :-(

    • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:29AM (#10734853)
      More importantly, does it work with OggVorbis? Apparently not. :-(

      Why is everyone so excited about OGG? Just because it's free? I have never (and likely will never) use OGG but I don't see why every player that is mentioned on Slashdot has to have several comments modded up that mentions the inclusion or lack of OGG support.

      Convert the OGG to MP3 or to some other format that the player uses and be done with it. I just can't believe that because the player is missing a basically unused format (for the non-geeks) that it is somehow "bad".

      • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by diakka ( 2281 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:40AM (#10734947)
        Convert the OGG to MP3 or to some other format that the player uses and be done with it. I just can't believe that because the player is missing a basically unused format (for the non-geeks) that it is somehow "bad".
        Well, belive it. I personally encode all my CDs as ogg or flac and so support for ogg format is the first thing I check for when I look at these types of products. If a company doesn't support ogg, then they're writing off me and others like me who aren't willing to compromise. It doesn't really matter if you understand why all us crazy geeks like ogg, but if you're a company making portable music devices and want our business, you damn well better know that we do in fact want it.

        • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:42AM (#10734974)
          It doesn't really matter if you understand why all us crazy geeks like ogg, but if you're a company making portable music devices and want our business, you damn well better know that we do in fact want it.

          See, that's the problem. I don't use OGG because it's a worthless format (the same with MP3, etc). I perfer SHN/FLAC. Do I complain that very few players support SHN/FLAC playback? No. Is it my #1 priority when I am looking for a portable music device? No.

          Covert between the two.

          You can't have all the formats you want and inexpensive pricing. It just doesn't work like that.

        • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Pleione ( 825378 )
          You'll be missing out then. OGG is fine, but I'll be sticking to MP3 and MP3 Pro for the forseeable future. Regardless of what anyone thinks of those formats, they are the defacto standard, supported by everything and offer good compression with good sound quality. Quite frankly, I don't see what's in the hype of OGG's supposedly having better sound quality. In my opinion, MP3's have better sound quality with less tinniness.

      • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:4, Informative)

        by sqlrob ( 173498 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:54AM (#10735093)
        Because you can't (legally) rip to MP3 with Free software?

        Is there a Fraunhoffer blessed Open Source implementation of MP3 ripping?

      • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:3, Informative)

        by geg81 ( 816215 )
        Why is everyone so excited about OGG? Just because it's free?

        It's better in practice than MP3. But, yes, the main reason is because it's free. With something like MP3, you end up not being in control of content you paid for.

        Convert the OGG to MP3 or to some other format that the player uses.

        Both Ogg and MP3 are lossy formats; every time you convert, the quality goes down audibly.

        and be done with it

        No, it is companies that should just implement Ogg "and be done with it". It doesn't cost them any

      • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by kwalker ( 1383 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @01:10PM (#10735916) Journal

        Personally, I prefer Ogg Vorbis over MP3 for several reasons.

        1. Bit for bit, it sounds better so I have a choice of the same sound quality for a lower bitrate (More songs per MB on my flash-based player) or better sound quality. Its psycho-acoustic model beats the pants off of MP3. Yeah, it's not lossless like FLAC is, but I can detect no audible artifacts no matter what system I play it through.
        2. It isn't locked down, patented, proprietary, or otherwise encumbered. It doesn't live or die with the whims of its parent company. It is free for anyone to use (BSD-licensed) and I'm not required by law to tip the parent company anything per rip I make. It's fully documented with reference code available for just about everything capable of processing a digital data stream.
        3. It is flexible and powerful. It supports arbitrary data encoded into the stream so things like lyrics, URLs, album art, etc. can be encoded into the stream, and anything that can play Ogg can understand them. Bitrates can go from 0 (silence) to over 300. Compare that with MP3 players that show unusually long play times for files with ID3v2 tags at the beginning and play garbage sound for the first second or so as it spins through the album art, or those that play silence as the song flies by at 5x normal speed.

      • Re:OggVorbis Support? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by stuuf ( 587464 ) <sac+sd AT atomicradi DOT us> on Friday November 05, 2004 @02:30PM (#10736663) Homepage Journal
        The difference between geeks and non-geeks is that the non-geeks will just use stuff that's more popular (iPod, MP3) but geeks actually car about which product is better. Most of the people pleading for Vorbis* support are probably doing so because it sounds better than MP3, especially at low bitrates, which is useful on portable devices.
    • I definately agree that besides disk space and battery, file format can be a big plus to compete with iPods. With the new 4th Gen. iPods and mini iPods supporting a compressed lossless file type for audiophiles (Apple lossless), it seems to have an advantage over the only lossless file type on these new Zen Micros (wav). I couldn't find anywhere on Creative's website that said they support variable-bitrate MP3s, but I imagine it does. Anyone know?

      But I am disappointed in both players for not supporting

  • More info... (Score:5, Informative)

    by elid ( 672471 ) <eli.ipod@g m a il.com> on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:26AM (#10734818)
    ...at PCMag [pcmag.com]

  • It's kind of ugly.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mrseigen ( 518390 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:26AM (#10734822) Homepage Journal
    Not as bad as the mini Dell DJ, but part of the appeal of the iPod is, the simple and minimal appearance. This thing looks like a sci-fi explosion, like most MP3 players these days.

    The battery life is a bit worse, too.

  • What's up with the ads? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:27AM (#10734837)
    First it was all the viral marketing. Now we're just getting straight up ads? With referral links to benefit the poster? What happened Slashdot?

  • Zen Xtra works with Linux (Score:5, Informative)

    by severett ( 38602 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:28AM (#10734843) Homepage
    Yes I know it's not the same product. :)

    I do want to report that my Nomad Zen Xtra Jukebox works great with Linux if you use the the gnomad2 program.

    Gnomad might work just as well with this product.

  • Library Considerations (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mudpyr8 ( 443097 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:29AM (#10734863)
    All these different portable players are great, but how do we deal with our libraries? My library is fully managed by iTunes, but is primarily MP3 (I don't import using AAC).

    If each of these comes out expecting people to use their software, how is that good? With 30GB of music its worth it to me to NOT mess with moving my library to another software package.

    I think choice is great, and I think this looks like a snazzy product, but I think companies have to consider the inertia involved with moving a library, especially if the expectation is to convert it to a new format. What is that worth, and does Apple offer an SDK for iTunes?

    • Re:Library Considerations (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You don't really need an SDK to convert an iTunes library. The folder structure is pretty simple -- iTunes Music > Artist > Album > music files. Better yet, the whole database is available in XML. iTunes keeps its own binary format too, but in the iTunes music folder you can parse iTunes Music Library.xml to your heart's content. It contains all the metadata, including the file location as a file:// url.

      So there is really nothing stopping anyone from writing a simple conversion tool.
    • I have a Zen Xtra, so I assume that they work about the same. You have to use their software, but if you have some mp3s with id2/3 tags just drag them to the device and that's it. You don't have to move your library anywhere.

  • Linux? Doubtful. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by swngnmonk ( 210826 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:30AM (#10734874) Homepage

    None of Creative's players work well (or much at all) with Linux. Over the years, there have been a couple of OSS attempts, but none with the help of the folks at Creative.

    My emailed pleadings/complaints to Creative have always been answered with something to the effect of "We don't support Linux, we don't care to put in the resources, and we won't share the inner workings with you. Thanks for considering our product."

    Needless to say, I no longer consider them a company worth supporting.

    • creative muvo nomad -- flash based mp3 player -- is just a usb-storage device. It works perfectly with linux, except for firmware upgrades
    • IF you want Linux (or any other OS) support, get the Muvo Range.

      They appear as a simple USB Mass Storage device.

      You have the Muvo TX which is a flash player, or the Muvo2 which is a 4GB Mini iPod style HD player. and the HD interface on the Muvo2 is FAST ENOUGH (USB2.0) to actually use it as an external hard disk!

      the Zen range use the proprietry Nomad Jukebox style communications and require additional drivers.

  • recording! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by redherring22 ( 579425 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:31AM (#10734879) Homepage
    you forgot the most important part, at least to quasi-musicians like myself who are looking for an easy way to record band practices without having to set up my laptop- line-in recording! unlike the ipod's intentionally crippled recording features, the zen micro looks like it will record to any bitrate of mp3. i know people who are still buying minidisc recorders for this purpose at well over $200 / pop-- with the zen micro 512MB costing around $120 (last I checked) I am SERIOUSLY tempted to pick one up even though I already own a 40GB ipod!
    • crap, i'm sorry, i'm confusing Zen with MuVo, which is the tiny flash-based one that I'm really thinking of buying. link [amazon.com]. homercles has no interest in the zen micro.

  • One thing it has that I wish my iPod did: (Score:3, Interesting)

    by blueZ3 ( 744446 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:31AM (#10734882) Homepage
    REMOVABLE, rechargable battery.

    It'd be cool to have two batteries on a long bike trip and just be able to pop in a fresh one when the first one died.

  • iPod killer? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by twbecker ( 315312 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:32AM (#10734883)
    I for one am tired of the pharse "iPod killer". The iPod is entrenched to the point that it is going to take more than a superior product to unseat it. It's going to take a strong marketing campaign, and tight integration with a popular download service. I can't speak to the latter (since I own an iPod and use the iTMS), but I do know that I don't recall ever seeing a TV commercial or even many print ads for a non iPod music player.

    • Re:iPod killer? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Mr_Silver ( 213637 )
      I for one am tired of the pharse "iPod killer". The iPod is entrenched to the point that it is going to take more than a superior product to unseat it.

      The problem that rivals are having is that whilst they can easily make a product that is technically superior, they can't make a product that is asthetically superior.

      All the "iPod killers" i've seen look cheap, nasty and feel it too. Maybe if they stopped concentrating on bundling niche features and geting their price as low as possible and looked to usi

    • Re:iPod killer? (Score:4, Funny)

      by chochos ( 700687 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @03:54PM (#10737616) Homepage Journal
      This has probably been said before a lot before, but... THIS [homedepot.com] is a real iPod Killer. Under $20, too.
  • Comapred to the Ipod mini it looks like a $5 calculator.

    The buttons look like they are those nasty indented clicky bubbles under sticky-back plastic that were all the rage about 10 years ago, and the display looks very basic and uninspired.

    The form-factor looks more bulky too.

  • Getting sick of the term "iPod killers" (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PornMaster ( 749461 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:35AM (#10734905) Homepage
    Every "iPod killer" has ended up in a ditch at the side of the road. Incremental feature advances just aren't going to do it. The iPod family are a de facto standard, and while some people might get individually excited about another player, whether a Rio, Creative, or Sony, the fact that everything is being compared to the iPod means that Apple is the one who sets the tone, sets the mindshare standard, and racks up the sales.

    Something would have to have twice the features at half the price with considerably more 'style' to "kill" the iPod. Everything out there now maxxes out at kicking iPod's shins.

  • 5GB growing? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dotslashconfig ( 784719 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:35AM (#10734908)
    Anyone else find it slightly ironic that the claimed number of songs that 5GB of storage can hold is growing? For instance, the Zen Micro claims to hold 2,500 songs on its drive. However, wasn't the original 5 gig iPod advertised as being able to hold "1000 songs in your pocket"? Is 5 gigs of capacity growing, or are our standards for music quality shrinking?

    • Re:5GB growing? (Score:3, Informative)

      by ibsteveog ( 442616 )
      This isn't hard to explain..

      From the article:
      You will never be without your favourite music with ZEN MICRO. Squeezed into its micro-sized casing is the capacity to store an astounding 2,500 songs on its 5GB hard drive (1)
      and from the footnote:
      (1) 2500 songs at 64kbps WMA. 1250 songs at 128kbps MP3. 1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes. Available capacity will be less. Reported capacity will vary.

    • Re:5GB growing? (Score:4, Funny)

      by dago ( 25724 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @12:08PM (#10735233)
      "are our standards for music quality shrinking?"

      Well ... you can understand music quality in 2 ways ...

  • Spec comparison (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jdreed1024 ( 443938 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:36AM (#10734918)
    It seems like this might be the first time that something being plugged as an "iPod killer" might actually compete with the iPod Mini (as in get a noticeable amount of market share, there are plenty of other devices that 'compete'). It's about the same size (0.2" thicker, and 0.3" shorter than the iPod Mini), which is nicely done. And it does have that extra 1GB of space. And comes in shiny colors. However, I can think of two things that could kill this device:
    • Interface: Apple's 'click wheel' is great, and very compact. If there's one thing they get right, it's human interface (well except for those god-awful early iMac mice) This has buttons, and from what I can tell, has ridges between the buttons, meaning your finger doesn't move seamlessly over the interface. This may seem like a nitpick, but it's not when you're manipulating it in your pocket. Apple's click wheel also has a concept of speed. When you're scrolling through an audiobook, if you run your finger around the wheel slowly, it moves slowly, if you run it fast, you can skip through hours of the book at a time. (Useful if you lost your place, or accidentally hit the "|
    • Doesn't play iTMS or Audible (.aa) tracks. Yes, we know Apple's not licensing iTMS widely - I'm not blaming Creative for omitting this feature. But iTMS *is* the dominant legal music download store at the moment, and that alone may push people towards an iPod Mini instead of this). It also appears to not play Audible audiobooks (though I may be missing some specs, since Creative's MuVo does play them).

    But all in all, looks to be a very nice device - let's see what the general public thinks.

    • This may seem like a nitpick, but it's not when you're manipulating it in your pocket.
      That must look real good when you're standing in line or on a bus... "Honest, I'm just fast forwarding a bit"
    • This may seem like a nitpick, but it's not when you're manipulating it in your pocket.

      Wait a second, you're saying you aren't happy to see me, and that it is an iPod in your pocket?

  • I'll never buy Creative again (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bigtangringo ( 800328 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:39AM (#10734940) Homepage
    I purchased a Nomad Jukebox back in the day (6GB), the Nomad requried a proprietary software to copy songs to the device. I lost the CD with the software on it, Creative does not offer a downloadable version of the software on their website. Contacting customer support does not help either as they will not send you the software.

    I now have a $300 paperweight. Maybe their practices have changed, but the experience has burned me badly. I will never purchase Creative again. I highly suggest to anyone considering their new product (or any product of theirs for that matter) that you make sure you can get into the device without proprietary software before making a purchase.

    • Try Nomadness... (Score:4, Informative)

      by zjbs14 ( 549864 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:53AM (#10735074) Homepage
      Easy fix to this one: http://www.nomadness.net [nomadness.net]

      They have all the older versions of the Creative software, back to Playcenter 2.x, drivers, and lots of other goodies.

      And FWIW, I would suspect the new player will work with Gnomad [sourceforge.net], the free Nomad software for Linux.

      Unless you were just wanting to rant on Creative for a while...

    • I had the exact same problem with an HP camera. They wanted something like $30 for the software at the time! This was before XP.
    • You should ask the slashdot crew for anyone that has this CD to send you a copy of it. It's not like you're the only person who bought the product, and there is this whole great super communication thing called the internet ;) ... You'll get that nomad back running in no time...

      Also... Creative does offer downloadable applications. "Creative NOMAD Explorer (Version 3.01.10) (11.22 MB)"... http://www.nomadworld.com/downloads/drivers/downl o ad2.asp?Product_ID=239&dlcentric=8069&Product_Name =JukeB
    • I had that with the Audigy II EX.

      The CD that came with the device was fubar, so I went onto the site only to be greeted with a notice to use my original installation CD. I called support and they basically said I was stuffed.

      Luckily the old Audigy driver worked... I never got the external box working. Ironically Linux handled it far better than Windows!

      (yes I know you can download the drivers now - they eventually seem to have relented, however I since junked that card as useless and am not about to tr
    • I don't know about Zen Micro, but my Creative MuVo 4GB works as a plain external usb storage with every modern operating system. Without any third party software.

      See, unlike you I did some product research before buying this device. All the Creative HDD mp3 players before MuVo line were the crap with proprietary protocols for transferring songs. Even the newest Zen Touch still uses that crappy protocol, again revised, so it doesn't work with current GNomad.

      And don't ever believe Creative reps promising re
      • I doubt it. Creative has everything proprietary in the Zen line. It won't even sync regular MP3's or WMA's with iTunes on a PC or Mac. Your muvo is a anomoly. It's like the Muvo and the Zen lines are built by two different companies.
  • it says so right on the specs - how can they lose?

    They'll sell one to every kiddie with a modded Civic so it'll match the resst of the blue stuff that makes their cars go faster.
  • Does anyone know if this thing will work with Linux? But can it run Half-Life 2?
  • I like that they made it available in so many diferent colors. That will definately be a selling-point. However, I'm surprised this one isn't also flash memory, or is that too heavy for 5GB? I'm considering complementing this with my iPod becuase it has radio, and sometimes my apetite is only satisfied with AM radio.

  • Removable battery? Big deal. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fingon ( 114710 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:49AM (#10735030)
    I think it took me all of 10 minutes to change battery in my ipod, using just tools included within replacement kit (from Other World Computing IIRC).

    And if I didn't want to do it myself, Apple would've done it happily enough (but would have charged twice as much for bit less powerful battery.. but I digress).

  • I don't get it... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Why would you pay $250 for this? I paid $230 for my Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Extra, which has 6 times the storage space.

  • but but but ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by RealAlaskan ( 576404 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:54AM (#10735091) Homepage Journal
    But it doesn't have a camera! I thought every audio device had to have a camera? [aarp.org] or at least a battery-devouring, expensive color display? [apple.com]

  • Tired of more of the same. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:56AM (#10735109) Homepage
    I am waiting for a company to have the balls to make a mp3 or ogg or other replacement for my Sony Minidisc recorder or my Sony portable DAT recorder.

    I have been through 3 minidisc recorders they can not be beat for ultra portable and covert recording.

    Example, I recorded the Tragically Hip concert last holloween. (Yes it was allowed, hell people had camcorders and SLR cameras) and produced a live recording that is 20 times better than anything I could buy. I also record ambient things. The last Michigan/MSU game gave me phenominal crowd recordings.

    Why doesn anyone make an iPOD type device that will record in STEREO with manual level adjustment and both line in and mic in?

    THAT would be an Ipod Killer.

  • First iPod clone to be suseptable to viruses? (Score:3, Funny)

    by apachetoolbox ( 456499 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @11:58AM (#10735123) Homepage
    I read... The mini-organizer consists of a calendar, an address book and a to-do-list (4)... which is cool!

    Then down at the bottom I read... (4) Requires Microsoft Outlook.

    Really nice of them to make it require something like MS LookOut. This is one of those rare situations where I'd actaully prefer some 3rd party application. Most people will have it plugged in when they check mail so it'll recharge. Next we'll have yet another outlook virus, but this one uploads 100's Gwar MP3's.

  • No thanks.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Monf ( 783812 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @12:12PM (#10735270)
    I bought a Nomad Jukebox Zen NX 20 GB Digital Audio Player last Xmas, and the hard drive in it crashed while my kid was flying back to his mom's.

    I checked the FAQ's they had at Creative, and one of the questions was: Can I jog with my Nomad?, and the answer was: No, but you can take long leisurely walks with it.....

    So I got an iPod instead, and except for Job's habit of keeping everything a secret: like the DRM (which Real reversed-engineered - thank god for sleazy companies...), I'm pretty happy with it.

    I know this is going up against the mini-pod, but if this thing is as FRAGILE as the older disk based nomads, i'd stay away... Besides, you can get a a set of headphones with a built-in fm radio for like a buck -http://www.wholesaledirectonline.com/ec215.html [wholesaled...online.com] uhoh- this poor guys gonna get /.ed now...

  • In business, just because something is better does not always mean it is the killer of the current king. One easy example would be to compare Windows to other OSes. Sure this is open for debate, but many consider the Mac OS to be a much more robust OS than Windows. Windows however controls the market. Just because Apple may introduce an even better OS next year, you won't hear anybody claiming it to be a "Windows killer". Same with the new versions of desktop Linux. Or we could go back in history and look a

  • Creative makes low quality products (Score:3, Interesting)

    by linuxguy ( 98493 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @12:32PM (#10735499) Homepage

    I have bought their earlier mp3 players, speakers and other products. All of these products had one thing in common. They were of extremely poor quality. The batteries on my 6GB Nomad Jukebox lasted what seemed like 20 minutes. When you were playing music scrolling around the menus became painfully slow. Their speakers make hissy noises when powered and not connected to anything. Their software is clunky at best. I am never ever buying another Creative product.

  • But it's ugly (Score:3, Insightful)

    by El Puerco Loco ( 31491 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @12:36PM (#10735530)
    whatever the iPod is, it isn't ugly. Design goes a long way toward selling just about everything apple makes. maybe these other companies should think about hiring some decent industrial designers.
  • Creative had these players prominently displayed and demoed at a recent electronics expo I went to.

    This thing looks and feels like a toy. The buttons have horrible feel to them, and do not react well at least to my fingers pressing them.

    If their target audience is 12-year-olds and younger, then I guess it'd sell well, but somehow I doubt it.
  • ...that fugly thing is getting anywhere near me.

  • I won't be buying a Creative MP3 player again... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by b0bby ( 201198 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @03:22PM (#10737249)
    ...since my Nomad IIc died, and I discovered that it only came with a 3 month warantee, and it had only been (lightly) used for under a year. I might try another cheapo brand, but that's it for Creative in my book. You'd hope that a solid state device might last a bit longer than a cassette walkman, but I still have a late 80's boodoo kahn that's going strong. I'd like an iPod, but I really can't justify the price.

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