Laser Powered Virtual Display 278
Tedger writes "The Feature has an article discussing an interesting portable display system developed by the University of Washington. Unlike your traditional mini displays mounted in glasses this system has no display, it is a 'virtual' display created by lasers and microscopic fast moving mirrors. The image is in fact printed onto the retina and has feasibly a infinite resolution. Can anyone say true VR?"
VR again (Score:3, Funny)
First post?
safety (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:safety (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:safety (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:safety (Score:4, Funny)
Evil Bit (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:safety (Score:5, Funny)
Re:safety (Score:5, Funny)
Re:safety (Score:4, Funny)
I looked to my companion. He was calm but the poor bastard would see them soon enough.
Re:safety (Score:3, Interesting)
(think photo camera flash, your eyes su
Re:safety (Score:5, Informative)
Not instantly, but because it is IR, by the time you notice anything, the damage has already been done.
Just because you can't see the laser doesn't mean it sn't dangerous.
Re:safety (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because it's a laser doesn't mean it's dangerous.
A.
Re:safety (Score:3, Informative)
Focussed, you don't want it pointed at your eyes.
Re:safety (Score:2)
why can't they use a laser that only outputs a few microwatts of power?
Re:safety (Score:4, Funny)
They can, but what happens when the power supply is hit by lightning and those microvolts turn to 10,000 volts. It might burn a hole right through your head.
Re:safety (Score:5, Funny)
Given that the power supply will be located either in your pocket or attached to your sunglasses, I think that if lightning hits it you will have other concerns to worry about.
Re:safety (Score:3, Informative)
Now, the lightning bolt hitting your head might be a different story.
Re:safety (Score:4, Funny)
Re:safety (Score:3, Informative)
Re:safety (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:safety (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:safety (Score:3, Informative)
Plus that so-called infinite resolution is limited by the fact that your fovea has at most 30-arc-second packing of the L and M sensitive cones...
Re:safety (Score:3, Informative)
So just because you don't feel a thing if you quickly sweep over the eye doesn't mean that you won't end up semi blind in ten years (or maybe just with "a problem with your eyes")
Re:safety (Score:5, Insightful)
-Jesse
Re:safety (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:safety (Score:2, Funny)
Re:safety (Score:3, Informative)
And, obviously there would be further investigation by whatever regulatory agency applies before these are allowed to be sold.
Re:safety (Score:3, Interesting)
So when the scanning mechanism (moving mirrors) stop functioning you get a burnt spot on your retina. Remember, if you're doing a Megapixel display, the laser is 1,000,000 times as much power as a single pixel requires. When the scanner breaks, how long do they have to detect the fault and shut off the laser before damage is done? Perhaps it can be done, but determining failure modes and implementing fast and
Re:safety (Score:4, Interesting)
First of all, you'd have to stare into a CD laser for some time before there was damage. These lasers will be even lower-power than that. Second, you can use a simple timed driver circuit to control the scanning mirror, so that as long as the laser unit has power, the system is scanning, with a safety interlock circuit which disables the laser if it detects that it has stopped moving. This can all be done at a low level and frankly it doesn't sound very hard to me; it might be hard to make a system that doesn't detect false positives but I'm betting you can build the laser, the scanning circuit, and the safety circuit into a single chip using MEMS and have the cost be basically nothing (in terms of what the device will cost) - the chip will just return pulses for synchronization so the video solution can tell the RAMDAC what to do, and it will have a system to synchronize two of the devices together.
Now, I'm no EE so maybe there's problems with this, but it seems simple enough to implement. There's just not a lot going on; the laser scans across, and each time it hits the end, it jumps down a line. If you don't get the pulses occurring within a certain time, which can be based on filling a capacitor as I'm sure you well know, then you just shut it off. It's easiest to do with fixed-resolution displays, but all you have to do is use a different cap (or multiple caps) for different resolutions, or just accept that the laser might stay put for five or six lines' worth of scanning at some resolutions, which is highly unlikely to damage anyone's eyes.
I don't think that non-laser light is really any safer. With a laser, you can use a lower intensity of light because your results will be more accurate with less light. Either way you need to get the same amount of light to the user's eye; this is, quite simply, how you will be controlling intensity.
Re:safety (Score:3, Interesting)
I ordered mine yesterday along with a co-worker, and we'll hopefully see them by early next week.
Re:safety (Score:2)
If they are any good, maybe you won't see them. (Or much else.)
Re:safety (Score:5, Funny)
How much did the coworker cost you, and did you have to pay extra for air holes in the shipping crate?
Safety is doable, but human limitations.. (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a technical problem, engineers have been good at solving those.
The human limitations may be much more difficult to overcome: show a 'static image' to a moving man and you have a problem: eye say static, inner ear say 'you're moving' --> conflict --> sea-sickness!
Re:Safety is doable, but human limitations.. (Score:3, Interesting)
With this background, I can think of a laser that has just enough power to absorb into the vitamin A molecule without having the power to heat up any other molecules around it - like the rhodopsin protein.
The collim
Re:safety (Score:3, Informative)
> i would think "burn in" would once again be a serious issue.
The problem with a laser of a sufficient power (say, 5mW or higher) would be vaporizing the retina.
However, Class I [repairfaq.org] lasers (under 0.4mW) are safe even for continuous viewing. For example, Sony has been using a laser for AutoFocus assist [sony.co.za] in its camcorders and digital cameras for quite a while.
Re:safety (Score:2)
Re:safety (Score:2, Insightful)
Snowcrash (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Snowcrash (Score:2)
Re:Snowcrash (Score:2, Informative)
Read Snowcrash [amazon.com]. It's a Neal Stephenson book.
That is all.
Re:Snowcrash (Score:2)
He is wearing shiny goggles that wrap halfway around his head the
bows of the goggles have little earphones that are plugged into his outer ears.
...
The goggles throw a light, smoky haze across his eyes and reflect a distorted
wide-angle view of a brilliantly lit boulevard that stretches off into an
infinite blackness. This boulevard does not really exist, it is a computerrendered
view of an imaginary place.
...
The top surface of the computer is smooth
Let's be real about this... (Score:4, Insightful)
And how do you propose that? (Score:3)
Smell... well they're working on smell-generating devices but there's not really a "virtual" way to do this. You can't exactly plug into your olfactory to stimulate the nerves there.
Touch, again... too much to cover and no proper way to stimulate, and taste may go along with smell.
Right now, we're doing a lot better at covering vision and sound. The only way we'd go too far beyond that would lik
Lasers... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Lasers... (Score:2)
Reminds me of .. (Score:3, Interesting)
led projections (Score:2, Insightful)
Really old news (Score:3, Informative)
Been around for a long time . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
As an analogy, consider headphone use vs. speakers. In the headphone case, you can easily damage your ears without even noticing you're doing it by having it a tinsy bit loud, while the speaker output makes it much harder (I imagine due to all that feedback to the rest of your body!) Similarly here, you are probably imaging on a limited part of your retina, which may make your eyes dilate open too much, and develop small damage over time, etc.
Laser + Display = ??? (Score:3, Interesting)
True VR (Score:3, Funny)
What do I win?
can anyone say "can anyone say?" yes, anyone can, and its losing its punch.
This is old stuff... (Score:4, Informative)
It wasn't a bad book, but they've had these things since the mid-90's -- just hard to find an appropriate market I guess.
Re:This is old stuff... (Score:3, Informative)
here [slashdot.org]
Re:This is old stuff... (Score:2)
I've been waiting for something like this (Score:5, Interesting)
Also it should give you the ability to use PDA's in a private fashion while still having a large view. In fact, this could redefine the PDA format, instead of the little notepad style device. Just gotta get the production levels up, cost down, so it's more affordable than the $4000 price tag.
That's just what the world needs.... (Score:2)
Nintendo came out with a video game system based on a similar technology, but it failed miserably. Read more about it here:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/vboy/file/virtu
Here's another, similar product:
http://www.mvis.com/nomadexpert/index.html
I would think the fact that lasers only emit one color of light at a time might be a problem, will they somehow combine them on the mirror?
Re:That's just what the world needs.... (Score:2)
Re:That's just what the world needs.... (Score:2)
Re:That's just what the world needs.... (Score:2)
yes, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Didn't we... (Score:5, Informative)
What would be really cool (Score:3, Interesting)
This way we coul play tetris (or by that time Grand Theft Auto on a cell phone) just by tiny eye movements.
It's all fun and games until someone burns an eye out.
Re:What would be really cool (Score:2, Informative)
Smartphone of the future (Score:2)
Re:Smartphone of the future (Score:2)
Mirrors (Score:2, Informative)
Mounting it on glasses makes it a nontrivial task.
Infinite resolution ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Infinite resolution ? (Score:2)
I think the image's detail will be limited by how fast the mirror can move and with what accuracy.
Re:Infinite resolution ? (Score:2)
Because it all sounds like a commercial oriented article, they're trying to make us say "wow, infinite resolution", never mind the fact that this particular technology has been known for ages. It's like if i was writing an article about a new browser i wrote, and said things like "Allows you to click on some things I call links in the pages, and be directly redirected to another page ! So all the pages in the world are linked tog
Shooting lasers in your eyes?! (Score:2)
But how does it work? (Score:3, Interesting)
Although it has certain other intersting proerties, laser light obeys normal refraction.
Yet they talk about suåperimosing the image on the normal view. How can you project to any other part of the visual field than the area where you see the projector?
Anyone know what the trick is?
Re:But how does it work? (Score:2)
Re:But how does it work? (Score:2)
Normally it shouldn't matter from which direction a ray leaves the projector. As long as it hits anywhere on the cornea at all the optics should still make sure it ends up the same place on the retina as all other rays coming from the same point in space (or r
Vector or Raster? (Score:4, Informative)
I used to work for a company that produced a High Resolution Display that used mirrors to steer a red or blue laser beam onto a sheet of photochromic film - the blue laser would permanently write on the film - the red laser could be used for drawing small amounts of vector graphics - a cursor, or a few characters of text. Doing complex graphics in vector mode when the persistence of the human eye is less than 40ms will require the mirror to be scanned at very high frequencies
Re:Vector or Raster? (Score:2)
No it doesn't.
Infinite resolution (Score:3, Interesting)
And of course this is old fashioned analog technology, just like in a CRT firing beams of electrons in the rough direction of dots in the phosphor, it's not accurate. What you need is a direct digital plug in the back of your optic nerve!
Jolyon
Re:Infinite resolution (Score:5, Interesting)
The brain is brilliant at filling in gaps.
Re:Infinite resolution (Score:2)
Yes, I appreciate the point, human perception of vision can't be exactly compared to the way that resolution is measured in, say, a digital camera.
Jolyon
Individual photons, too. (Score:2)
Re:Infinite resolution (Score:3, Insightful)
this earns "screensavers" (Score:2)
anyone has seen those old screens with the burned init screen of an ms-dos app readable even when turn off? don't want a "water-mark" on my eyes, thank you.
VR? (Score:2)
"Can anyone say true VR?"
Can anyone say who the hell still cares about VR?
I mean, really, even if there are still applications for such systems, is "VR" still the term to describe them? Until my "virtual" world can look at least as realistic as FF, I don't want to enter the "virtual world". I can see shitty slightly unrealistic renditions of the real world if I don't sleep for a few days or drink rather heavily, and that's cheaper and more fun.
Did some one else found this interesting... (Score:2)
"Redmond, Washington-based Microvision"
What the fuck. Does everybody in Redmont have a small.... And some have soft. too.
I used one once (Score:3, Interesting)
They could produce a low resolution overlay image over what you were actually looking at. They could only produce very simple line drawings floating in the air. But still.. you had your own private (head ache inducing) lasershow.
What if you move your eyes? (Score:2, Interesting)
A Laser at My Eye (Score:2)
But, that instinctive fear aside, this could be really cool. I mean, small HUDs of high quality have been wanted for near-onto forever. Now, some of those Sci-Fi stories where nobody has monitors because they are useless might start to come true.
Dangerous if micromirrors lock up (Score:2)
Even if this is functioning normally, it could still cause damage due to the intensity of the scanning spot, regardless of the ultra-short d
Seeing Red (Score:2)
I'm sure they can and will, but until this thing gets green and blue lasers, or reality turns everything red, we'll still be waiting for it.
Really Fake Reality (Score:2)
Wait, wait, wait... REAL VIRTUAL REALITY, I think that Merriam Webster would say that this is a very confuzzling sentence.
"True VR" (Score:2)
If reality is virtual, it isn't reality; hence not true. It's like saying true three-legged bipeds.
a few details and oopsies (Score:4, Informative)
Microvision [microvision.com] is the company doing this.
What about saccades? When the eye moves rapidly over a long angular direction (which it does in tracking objects or changing your view) or a short angular direction (a.k.a. microsaccades, which happen multiple times a second), you get blurring which is normally suppressed by the visual attention system.
When you do saccades across long persistence displays like LCDs, you will not see any major aberration as the light source effectively stays on. When you saccade across medium to short persistence displays (P21 phosphors for short, your regular TV or CRT for medium), it is possible to notice that there is either a shearing or tearing artifact.
TV/CRT displays are scanned left-to-right at (say for 640x480 VGA at 80 Hz) 480*80=38400 times per second and scanned slow...ly up-to-down 80 times per second followed by that quick scan back up. Well you can try this at home (TV's at ~60 Hz show this a little more easily than most of our CRTs which are set at a less-likely-to-appear to flicker refresh of >80Hz):
look at an object to the left of the TV screen. Then rapidly switch what you're looking at to the right side of the TV screen. The image of the TV will no longer look rectangular but like a shortened-horizontally and sheared (top to the leftish, bottom to the rightish) parallelogram. If you do a right-to-left saccade, the image will appear longer horizontally and top to the rightish of the bottom.
Now the interesting thing happens with up-to-down saccades: if you go up-to-down at slower than or close to the same angular velocity as the scan line (depends on how close you're sitting to the screen) goes down the screen, the projected image will appear SHORTER-UP-TO-DOWN and if you actually match the scan-line's downward angular velocity, the TV image will seem to just be a poorly set up XF86 display of one pixel in height.
If you have an effectively ZERO-PERSISTENCE direct write display, since the laser is being used to draw directly on the retina (or to project on a screen) rather than an electron-train hitting chemicals causing them to phosphoresce with a certain limited time before they stop glowing (PERSISTENCE...), then fixation has to be maintained or the illusion of motion based on the projection's position is destroyed. Laser projection systems try do multiple lines scanned at once or other fancy projection scan patterns rather than the usual cathode-ray-gun approach, but the saccade problem continues to be an issue.
The saccade errors are the big to-do with projective laser displays for visible wavelengths, regardless of whether they are projected onto a screen or direct write onto the retina.
The other problem is
Re:a few details and oopsies (Score:3, Interesting)
Your visual processing system (more specifically, the transferral of visual cortex information into your internal "world-map" representation) is for the most part shut down during a saccade. Whatever comes in is assumed "irrelevant" by your attention system.
This is why you have to play focus games like the ones you describe in order to notice the effects of artifacts during saccades. You don't notice this stuff much unle
Old News! (Score:2, Informative)
No, not VR (Score:2)
True VR can only be achieved in a handfull of ways, shooting lasers into your eyes is not one of them.
Some examples of real VR possibilities...
1. Holodeck. And I mean, a Holodeck like in Star Trek, nothing less than a fully immersive system, capable of *physically manifesting* (even if it's just "photons and forcefields") an entire environment that you can travel around in and interact with -
Regulatory Issues (Score:3, Interesting)
This stuff is cool, but I don't see it becoming available in the U.S. any time soon. I would worry about a bad capacitor or something that suddenly released an hour's worth of exposure in a microsecond and fried my retina. Somebody with more engineering knowledge of these systems may know whether that's impossible or not, but it will always represent a consumer concern, I imagine.
VR described in article is not Virtual Reality (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Yea true VR (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I'd use it for... (Score:3, Funny)
It does, though, bring a whole new meaning to "do it too often and you'll go blind"...
just light? (Score:3, Informative)
I'm being general here; not saying it couldn't be safe. In any case its completely different from looking at light scattered from a screen
BBC Article (Score:2, Informative)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3647437.s