Escaping WiFi Interference In The Modern Dorm Room? 144
j.cherney writes "I recently moved my son up to a dorm at Michigan State University. We set up a wireless router (D-link) and everything worked well-until the rest of the dorm moved in. Now he is getting intermittent outages which I am quite sure is related to the large numbers of cordless phones on the 2.4ghz frequency. So my question to everyone is: Is there anything that I can do to make wireless work in this environment? Obviously I'm not willing to buy everyone in the dorm a new cordless phone! Is one brand more resistant to interference than another? Is there a filter than can be installed? Or is he S.O.L.?"
Suggestions... (Score:5, Informative)
OR
2) Wallpaper the dorm room with tinfoil (has the added benefit of blocking government mind control rays)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:2)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:3, Informative)
At Microcenter last Friday (10/15), I picked up an 802.11a/b/g router with a 4-port switch built in and a 802.11g usb keyfob for $137... or $107 after rebates.
If this cost is split with a roommate/suitemate or two, this is not bad at all.
Re:Suggestions... (Score:1)
For the college rooms I've seen, it would probably cost less than $3 in tinfoil...
Re:Suggestions... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Cluetrain (Score:2)
Depends on the situation. I know for me as a student it often was. I paid for my tuition, books, dorm, and food working at McDonalds. No loans or grants, just simple hard work. Many years an extra $100 would break break the budget for several months. I had to live cheap in order to do it.
Things were not that bad. I reccomend it to everyone. Though I understand most are unwilling to give up anything resembling a life to do it.
Re:Cluetrain (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cluetrain (Score:1, Interesting)
- Get the biggest student loan possible, interest and tax free while you are at school.
- Invest the portion of the student loan that you don't actually require for school. Build a good credit rating.
- Graduate, and get as many credit cards, personal loans, and lines of credit as you can as quickly as possible.
- Pay off entire student load with new credit.
- Declare bankruptcy immediately, as you can't possibly pay any of this off.
- Wait 7 y
Re:Cluetrain (Score:1)
Re:Cluetrain (Score:3, Interesting)
Daniel
Re:Cluetrain (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cluetrain (Score:3, Interesting)
Err no, overall I ate healthier than the average student. Sure I ate McDonalds when working there, but most of my meals where elsewhere. I cook for myself, and I always made sure they were well balanced. My health is just fine. Better than many others my age in fact, in part because I've always avoided junk food, and when I did have it, just a little bit.
I also don't drink, and I never could stand crowds/parties. These two are major time and money wasters for the average kid. Mind you have to make y
Re:Suggestions... (Score:3, Insightful)
The router/nic will listen to whatever is loudest. Go pick up a bigger antenna. 7dbi should do it.
Re:Suggestions... (Score:4, Insightful)
> The router/nic will listen to whatever is loudest. Go pick up a bigger antenna. 7dbi should do it.
Yes, because if everyone got a bigger antenna that would go a long way towards solving wifi interference problems... genius man, pure genius.
Re:Suggestions... (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you point me to an exchangable antenna selection for my cordless phone? Umm, yeah, I did not think so...
A bigger antenna could solve his problem within his dorm room because it will reduce the interference with the phones that are stuck with their little antennas.
Ummmm (Score:2)
Re:Ummmm (Score:2)
Ok, I sheepishly stand corrected...
Re:Suggestions... (Score:1)
Wifi is a carrier sense media, enhancing the ability for his AP to pick up even more noise is just going to aggrevate the situation.
Re:Suggestions... (Score:2)
The router/nic will listen to whatever is loudest. Go pick up a bigger antenna. 7dbi should do it.
Just make sure it's a DLink antenna. DLink will most likely be the only manufacturer who has a certified antenna for their gear. If you're going to start a pissing match, you really don't want to be the one breaking the law. Believe it or not, it's legal for Superpass to sell an antenna that isn't legal for you to install.
He could put a sector antenna on the AP (like the ATN2
Re:Suggestions... (Score:2)
But, I might very well be wrong. Maybe somepone not as sleepy as I am right now feels like digging around old
Re:Suggestions... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:1)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:2)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:2)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:3, Insightful)
Ideally, the jammer should output more of a noise than a continuous signal. It'll look more natural and/or unintentional.
However, if you want something spectacular, you want to use the standard 110v power line for your input voltage, and you want to u
Re: Suggestions... (Score:2, Informative)
I can confirm that this works. Back in 2002 I worked for the Tulane Computing Store as a student job and we recommended this to students and teachers who had the interference problems. It seemed to work since I don't remember anyone coming back to get their money back.
Re:Suggestions... (Score:2, Funny)
3) spread rumors that you and anyone else with the right equipment can listen to cordless phone conversations in the building. A few additional rumors about 'things you heard while sniffing phone conversations' will also help a bit. Students are a gullible lot.
Re:Suggestions... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Suggestions... (Score:2)
802.11a also has the advantage of not being widely used in the non-business environment so they may be overlooked by casual wireless sniffers or cheap neighbors loking to ride on your wireless LAN.
More information (Score:2)
Not much you can do... (Score:5, Informative)
1. The, IMHO,most logical suggestion. A dorm room isn't that big, buy a 50 foot cable. If you insist on keeping a wireless network around, try going for 11a equip. Kinda hard to find but a week or 2 ago, worst buy...er i mean bestbuy had a sale for a dual band 11a/b/g router.
2. See if there is a campus wireless, and if it covers the dorm areas. If yes, convince EVERYONE to kill their AP and use the campus wireless. As for the phones, not much you can do if you're not buying everyone a new phone.
3. You could try a game of "my transmitter is more powerful than yours" and use ext antennas to put out a stronger signal...but not that practical.
Grump
do the other students have wifi's? (Score:3, Interesting)
of course obvious solutions: bigger/better antenna.
Faraday Cage? (Score:3, Informative)
Oh Yah, you also need to make sure that it is well grounded, you can tie directly to the ground lug of any triple prong outlet, or steam pipe, etc.
Free Flat screen whatevers [freeflatscreens.com]
Re:Faraday Cage? (Score:2, Funny)
This also has the advantage of identifying appliances that have ungrounded "hot" metal cases by electrocuting anyone touching the
Re:Faraday Cage? (Score:1)
BTW, you will never find a UL listed hot case in America unless it has been modified by the owner in an amazingly ignorant fashion. You would have to not only short the hot leg to the case, but you would also have to disconect the the ap
Re:Faraday Cage? (Score:3, Interesting)
Mostly correct, but the toaster is a special case. The toaster is ungrounded because it is safer when (not if) someone puts a knife in it. For just about everything else, grounds are required by UL. Toasters are about the only thing where having a ground would make it fail UL!
Re:Faraday Cage? NO Chain LInk fence (Score:2)
So what you do is have your son go out some night a construction site and aquire 7 or 8 of the sections of the temporary fencing.
Did you try other channels? (Score:5, Interesting)
Second: Try some FHSS gear, it seems tougher in noisy environments than DSSS. The old Proxim RangeLan equipment is cheap.
Third: Get out of 2.4GHz entirely. Go go 5GHz with 802.11a, or 900MHz with older Aironet gear.
Fourth: It's a dorm room, and worse than that, it's an MSU dorm room. What is it, 4x8 feet? Stick with wired. Get a real patch cord that uses stranded conductors, as the solid stuff is too stiff and will stress the connectors.
Re:Did you try other channels? (Score:1)
Re:Did you try other channels? (Score:3, Interesting)
In the 802.11b spec, 14 channels are defined, the first 11 of which fall within the FCC for unlicensed use in the US. (Industry Canada uses essentially the same frequency allocation as the FCC.) If you're in ETSI jurisdiction, channels 1-13 are allowed, and in Japan all 14 are available. I misspoke earlier by saying ETSI allowed 14. [arrl.org]
Most hardware makers sell their products internationally, an
A dose of reality (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:A dose of reality (Score:2, Informative)
Lead (Score:1)
Re:Lead (Score:2)
hmm (Score:3, Informative)
However,
my Belkin equipment has a special mode it says you should enable in high-interference environments. My guess is, it either adds additional error correction, or boosts the output, or something, at the expense of a little bit of speed.
Re:hmm (Score:3, Funny)
sorry, couldn't resist
Tragedy of the commons (Score:5, Informative)
You probably already read the AUP for MSUnet [msu.edu]. It specifically addresses the issue of NAT devices, a common concern at universities. The issue is that normally a person must register their MAC on the network to gain access. Then any nefarious activity that occurs on the network can be tracked to the individual user who registered that MAC address. For now, let's ignore the possibility of being able to change the MAC address on some ethernet cards.
By introducing a NAT'd device, you open an entry point to the network to anyone, even those not with proper access, and you rely on the good will of these nameless souls not to do bad things in your name. So if anyone ever becomes evil while connected to your basepoint, it becomes your responsibility to deny access to your AP or remove it from the network.
Don't assume (Score:2)
Re:Tragedy of the commons (Score:4, Interesting)
Even if they do allow wireless routers, you might want to re-evaluate just how badly he needs that wireless. Dorm rooms aren't that big - just buy a long cable. Or buy a cheap hub and run a cable to the desk, to the bed, and anywhere else he's going to use a laptop. One of my roommates did just that, worked fine. Lastly, you might just try unplugging your router and seeing if you can pick the school's wireless if they have it. If he's really lucky, he might get a good signal from some other sucker's wireless router. In which he can download as much music, movies, warez, and p0rn as he wants, and if the RIAA/MPAA/BSA comes around, or if the ResNet people get annoyed at the excessive bandwidth use - they'll bust the poor guy who registered the MAC address on that router.
Re:Tragedy of the commons (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Tragedy of the commons (Score:2, Informative)
Not some. All. Macshift for Windows XP can do it, and it works for damn near every network card. Wireless too. http://macshift.natetrue.com [natetrue.com]
Alternative (Score:4, Insightful)
He is SOL, there is no recourse. Use a CAT5 cable. (Score:4, Interesting)
This means that any other wireless routers, cellphones, microwave ovens, etc... are free to wreak havoc on it, and vice versa.
Having said that, you can always spend more money to upgrade to the newest 802.11 wireless protocols that operate in a different range. It will still be another 6 months before prices drop enough for students without rich parents can afford them.
Honestly, as a young man, I am sure he can tough it out with a CAT5 cable like we did in my day and age, before these new fangled wireless things made life easy. It won't be chic, and it is certainly very old-fashioned, but it gets the job done. Its quite possible your son might never have seen a CAT5 cable before, so now its time for you to show him how Daddy use to do it.
Or you can have Grandpa come down and show him how they did it with 10base2.
10Base2?!?! (Score:3, Funny)
Back in my day... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:He is SOL, there is no recourse. Use a CAT5 cab (Score:2)
That is true -- the FCC won't come in and save you. But there are still ways to work around it ...
The 2.4 gHz band is probably toast. WiFi uses spread spectrum, as do some better cordless phones, but the cheap cordless phones just use one chunk of bandwidth and don't care what else is there too. And then any microwave ovens anywhere nearby will scramble all the 2.4 gHz st
Simple fix for wifi congestion. (Score:2)
Properly? (Score:1)
Then go through the hassle of unplugging it and storing it every time you turn your cpu off and on.
It may not seem like that much of an inconvenience, but why put up with it when there's another solution that's possibley, in the long run, less of a hassle.
Re:Properly? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Simple fix for wifi congestion. (Score:2)
Are you positive its really rf interference ? (Score:5, Interesting)
The cheapest, easiest solution. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I'm not kidding.
Agreed, but get it elsewhere (Score:2)
Re:Agreed, but get it elsewhere (Score:2)
Re:Agreed, but get it elsewhere (Score:3, Insightful)
Sheesh.
Re:The cheapest, easiest solution. (Score:2, Funny)
Wireless solution. (Score:2, Funny)
I've mastered a new technique employing "direct transcranial wireless transmission." All you need is about a 12' lenghth of aluminum foil, two coat hangers, and a pair of 9v batteries. I just added an extra battery yesterday to boost the signal and now I'm getting 1.1 Mb signals--wait...they're transmitting--from Andromeda, and also Tau Ceti. They...
Re:Wireless solution. (Score:2)
use a freakin' ethernet cable (Score:5, Funny)
You're the wifi version of the idiots I lived next to in college with GIGANTIC STEREOS jammed into little 8ftx8ft rooms. Did you know ALL music sounds the same when filtered through the low-pass filter known as "the walls"? I didn't!
Yeah, when you're in college, you're king of your world and entitled to everything. Whatever.
Besides, with the wireless, you're just letting that freaky Linux guy next door who wears a cloak see what kind of porn you like to hit it with.
You don't need a cordless phone either, by the way. You live in a damn CLOSET!
(Oops, this was the guy's dad. Adjust pronouns appropriately.)
Re:use a freakin' ethernet cable (Score:3, Insightful)
Ok, The huge stereos? Ok. You've got a point there. I don't need to share my music preference with people down the hall. I *do* have a THX rated surround sound system on my computer though. Why? Games. Movies. I want them to sound good. I live in a box. When I watch a movie, I don't want to feel like I'm watching a movie... in a BOX.
The wireless? My dorm is broken up into 10 smaller "houses" attatched by tunnels and such, and each house has it's own l
Re:use a freakin' ethernet cable (Score:2)
If they put six inch concrete walls in, your cordless phone wouldn't work either, and neither would cellular phones, which are the real solution. I ditched my land line and I've never looked back. Most studen
Re:use a freakin' ethernet cable (Score:2)
Re:use a freakin' ethernet cable (Score:2)
I'm a college student. I'm glad your Uni has jobs that pay properly, but I'm in a community college and they don't pay diddly here because California's community colleges (like every other primarily governmentally-funded school) are seriously low on cash. There are quite a number of important positions here which have been board-approved but for which there is no funding.
Most college kids are spoiled. I'm glad you're pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps but the majority of you (by you I mean the y
Re:use a freakin' ethernet cable (Score:2)
Re:use a freakin' ethernet cable (Score:2)
Mod up (Score:2)
As for a solution, try airpwn, it worked wonders for me, everyone stops using wifi after they feel the power of goatse.cx!
What's that dad? You're breaking up *pshhht* (Score:3, Funny)
fixes (Score:3, Informative)
2) Depending on your school's policies, see if you can turn on bridging or otherwise share the connection (some schools are okay with it so long as you bridge and don't use NAT). If your connection works, others might use it and shut off their own connections. This probably involves talking to neighbors with their own APs.
3) Talk to a neighbor with an open AP and see if you can use that one rather than your own. Most people are cool about that sort of thing.
4) If you can't share, think about -reducing- the power of your AP, and see if your neighbors are willing to do the same. This is the airspace equivalent to "quiet hours".
5) Almost every new AP supports some sort of "interference robustness" or "microwave-safe mode" or something like that. All it does is reduce your MTU so that -some- of the packets make it through. Either turn this on, or manually reduce your MTU.
6) Think about Bluetooth, 802.11a, or other "alternative" wireless technology. Bluetooth shares the same frequencies, but is often able to get an across-the-room connection even when the wi-fi space is totally screwed up.
Re:fixes (Score:2, Informative)
You did consider dropping the whole WiFi idea and using a cable right?
Honestly there isn't anything wrong with cabled networks.
Nuke the bastards (Score:5, Funny)
SD
PS Don't try this anywhere, ever.
Re:Nuke the bastards (Score:2)
Re:Nuke the bastards (Score:2)
I agree. The thermal switch isn't connected and there is no fan on that magnitron. You wouldn't want to melt down a perfectly good magnitron!
Re:Nuke the bastards (Score:2)
I've really been tempted to try it after I got tagged with a photo radar ticket...
A van with a photo flash hanging out the back would make a great target.
The other tempting target is the kid on that leafblower powered scooter that makes so much noise. I wonder if I can kill it's CDI ignition.
Where to plug in the magnitron along the highway is the problem.
Re:Nuke the bastards (Score:2)
SD
Try a corner reflector... (Score:2, Informative)
Investigate actual Wi-Fi surveys from wardrivers (Score:2)
how big is your dorm room? (Score:2)
Old School Solution (Score:2)
Re:Question (Score:2, Informative)
Sadly Outta Luck
Re:Question (Score:5, Informative)
Really? Seriously, I've always heard/said "Shit outta luck" , which really doesn't make any more sense, except that there is a reason to abbreviate it. Once you say it a million times tho' it doesn't seem to be anything odd.
Not that I'd claim my version is the authority however.
Re:Question (Score:1)
Neither do I. This is the same kind of transformation as in RTFM. Who cares about the word anyway, as long as the acronym is meaningful...
Re:Question (Score:2)
Re:Question (Score:2)
Re:Question (Score:2)
Re:Question (Score:2)
Re:Question (Score:1)
Read The Fantasic Manual
MOD UP (Score:2)
Allocating channels properly (1,6,11) is one of the few suggestions that will actually help.
Re:HAM Radio! (Score:2)
Different laws apply to which way you're using it.