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Hardware

Via Will Join The 64-Bit Fray 189

Posted by timothy from the smaller-than-breadbasket dept.
ancice with news that Via plans to introduce 64-bit chip codenamed 'CN.' "It was revealed at the Fall Processor Forum. The chip 'will have much better performance, particularly when handling video and audio information ... However, it won't depart from Via's emphasis on low cost, small size and modest power consumption.' Features include 'high-speed Front Side Bus, ... Floating Point Unit that can achieve floating-point additions and multiplies using only two clock cycles, an increased cache size, high-speed data movement, and out-of order, superscalar execution that allows the processor to achieve high clock rates while executing multiple, simultaneous instructions for high definition digital entertainment.' The story was reported by ZDNet. The offical release is here. Expected release date is first half of 2006." Update: 10/06 13:10 GMT by T : Also at the Forum, VIA showed off a dual-processor Mini-ITX board, about which more below.

An anonymous reader submits "Via gave a sneak preview at the Fall Processor Forum of what is likely the world's first dual-processor mini-ITX mobo. The "four-wheel drive Hyundai" is expected to ship in "early 2005," according to the article at LinuxDevices. Looks like Via is cooking up some higher-end hardware in hopes the security processing features in its CPUs can carry it into higher-margin markets. I don't know, though; I think I'd rather have a PocketPC cluster ... "
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Via Will Join The 64-Bit Fray More

Via Will Join The 64-Bit Fray

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  • And it will still suck (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Having a 64-bit chip doesnt mean its a great CPU. I've had a via, it was like having a moped. Sure it was fun to play around with and got you from point a to point b, But do you really want your friends to see you with one?

    • Re:And it will still suck (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Phosphor3k ( 542747 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:18AM (#10449579)
      These are not high-end chips.
      "it won't depart from Via's emphasis on low cost, small size and modest power consumption"
      Just like all of Via's current line, they are meant for low cost low power systems. In combination with Via's SFF motherboards they are great for car PCs, media center PCs and firewall/router PCs. They are not meant to be high end workstations, so stop treating them as though they are. Just like any other product, they have their niche.
      • Maybe they are quite sufficient for most home users? Working on a 500MHz Athlon after being used to a 1800+ has made me quite indifferent to processor speeds.

        I'd prefer a fast and responsive interface any time over high processing speeds. And watching the cpu usage on the 500mhz machine, I swear most things I do at home except gaming are limited by ram size. hdd seek speed may be an issue but only after the ram is full and the OS needs to swap. Swapping sucks that much, I'd invest insane amounts of mone

        • Problemo: even with gaming, I don't want a blistering fast processor. However, when I built my PC, the slowest proc available with an 800MHz FSB was 2.6 GHz. I don't NEED a 2.6GHz system to satisfy my addiction to GTA: Vice City, but that 800 FSB and the DDR 3200 ram was pretty sweet. Of course, now I'm finding that my 845 Intel chipset could quite readily be replaced by a mobo with an 865PE, but whatever.

          The problem is that in the midrange the chips offer a lot more than just their raw processing speed. H

          • What world do you live in where you can't find slower CPUS?

            What kind of world do you live in where an 845-based board runs at an 800MHz FSB?

            Considering that the 845 only runs at 400 & 533MHz FSBs, you're only pushing that CPU to about 1.7GHz (without overclocking the mobo).

            • I'm living in a world where people know that the 845GE chipset can be used to run the FSB at 800/533/400.

              And, I repeat: At the time I made my purchase the slowest clocked P4 running at 800FSB was the 2.6C processor. Actually, the 2.4C might have been the slowest clock (and, afaik, still is) but, IIRC, I bought the 2.6 on sale so that it was only 5 or 6 bucks more than the 2.4

              • erp.

                Worst. Post. Ever.

                Forgot about the faster 845s - I haven't really paid them much attention since the 865/875s came out.

                Misread the bit about the CPU - thought you were saying that the slowest CPU you could find had the 800MHz FSB.
        • when there's finally a notebook with a Radeon Mobility 9800 without a Dell logo available.
          It's not quite a 9800, but it's close (9700) and it's the opposite of a Dell. [apple.com]
          • Ha ;) no way I'll mistake this for the real thing. No offense, but a mobility 9700 is in no way ever close to a mobility 9800 except for the successive character in their model numbers. ATI is just too errrm let's say hesitating to call this thing by its real name. The mobility 9700 was a version of the desktop 9600xt, the mobility 9600 was something older, but the new mobility 9800 is a slightly toned down X800(!).
            60 percent more graphics power [tomshardware.com] while only using slightly more energy. No way I ever buy my n

    • Re:And it will still suck (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AKnightCowboy ( 608632 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:29AM (#10449648)
      Sure it was fun to play around with and got you from point a to point b, But do you really want your friends to see you with one?

      Hell yes. All of my friends were really impressed with the MythTV frontend I built with a Via EPIA motherboard. Just a tiny motherboard in a tiny book-sized case with no moving parts and network, video/tv-out, mpeg2 decoder, and sound all integrated into the box.

      • Re:And it will still suck (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Paladin128 ( 203968 ) <aaron@noSpam.traas.org> on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:42AM (#10449744) Homepage
        Amen! I've got a bunch of little mini-ITX systems that I use with LTSP, and I've got an 8U portable rack (the kind used typically for live audio gear) with a beefy server, a 16-port switch, a router/firewall, and other goodies. It's basically a network-in-a-box. I do gigs with a local DJ and set up quick and dirty cyber-cafe's. The boxes boot Linux and run Firefox (with a stripped-down browser.xul so they can't do anything funky like install extensions). People love it! You can run an event anywhere, and have a totally secure bunch of very responsive PC's. On my rig, I can get up to 15 of these guys going, and they're fast for just browsing! And cheap!

        • This sounds like a very interesting idea...

          Do you have more information or a web site on it?

          I could see "Paladin128 Boxes" (or P128 Boxes?) being a popular addition to some parties/locations.
          • No real info on a website or anything. I just started this up. I mostly due web programming for local youth ministry programs (Roman Catholic), and they needed a way to show off the web sites at thier events. So I built this rig and they hire me to set it up and run a night.

            The app server is AthlonXP based with gobs of RAM and 2 on-board NIC's. It's running k12LTSP (Fedora Core 2 with LTSP installed and configured). I got the rack at guitar center -- a Road Ready (brand name) 8-space (translation: 8U) rack

            • "local youth ministry programs (Roman Catholic)"

              We have a bunch of those around here; they're called "public schools" :/

              "maybe a dual Opteron rig with 16GB would be able to handle a good bit more."

              You'd probably be better off buying a second 4GB Opteron and having 2, 2-way 4GB Opterons with their own drives, rather than a single 16GB one. Costs about the same, probably performs about the same, but also gives you some redundancy and lets you share network bandwidth about more.

              • Re:And it will still suck (Score:4, Informative)

                by Paladin128 ( 203968 ) <aaron@noSpam.traas.org> on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @10:55AM (#10451219) Homepage
                In cases like that, most would just buy the second 2-way Opteron and max the RAM out on both of them. Seriously, if you're sporting a rig like that, you can get about 100 clients 2 machines with 4GB each. If you max them both out with RAM, (which going from 4 GB to 16 is only about $5000 each), you can push that to probably over 300 clients with just the two servers, assuming you've got enough disk bandwidth (probably fileserver with 15K RPM drives in a RAID-5 configuration). Segment your gigabit network nicely, and spend about $500 on each client ($350 if you're using CRT's instead of LCD's), and you've saved a TON vs. Microsoft solutions because of liscencing. Plus, management is a breeze! The clients rarely break down, as they have no moving parts. Upgrade an app on the server, and it's already upgraded everywhere else. Only need to backup one fileserver. I've talked to people who have set up LTSP or something similar and not entered the server room for 2 years!

                Now, this solution doesn't work for everyone, such as my company, which does content production (using Flash, Maya, and plenty of other graphics-intenive apps that wouldn't work nicely in an LTSP setup). Where would it fit? Telemarketing call centers. Schools. Stock brokers. Largely clerical outfits. Anywhere where the needs of most of your workers are very simple (web, email, office stuff).

                The other application is kiosks. My terminals are virtually unhackable. They boot straight into a non-priveleged user account that runs Firefox and Metacity in a chroot-jailed environment. Firefox is totally stripped to the bone -- no menus at all, all the shortcut keys for advanced stuff disabled, no file:/ about:/ etc, CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE is disabled, root logins disabled. They can't do squat. They're trapped in from boot to shutdown. Web browsing is filtered by a proxy, often using a whitelist to one specific site. I offer the kids $20 if they can open another app or go to a different website. No one has collected yet.
                • Awesome!
                  Can you provide any details on how to strip down Firefox? A URL to documentation or something?
                  (If you prefer, you can reply by email instead of Slashdot - see my address above)
                  Thanks!
                • I would hate to be a student at your lab. I'd ask to transfer to someplace else. Or egg your house or something.

                  Impressive from a technical standpoint though.
                  • It's not a lab. It's a portable computer lab, and I'm often hired to demonstrate a new organizational web site. People log on to use the site and for no other purpose. These are basically kiosks.

                    In a regular lab, there would be more freedom. How much more would depend on the purpose of the lab. I don't want anything unneccessary running. More software = more chances to screw things up.
        • You know, I'd like to see a /. article about your project there - maybe slap a quick website up with some more info? Cheers!
          • I couldn't handle the bandwidth usage. I want to push it more prime-time eventually, and even sell these units, but I don't have the resources now. Plus, my rig is a bit of a hack. I want a few more components first... and to find a better case manufacturer. The case I found, while it met my dimension requirements, has really shitty rack-ears which make it hard to screw in to the damn thing. Talk to me in a few months.

            --Aaron
      • Wow, really?
        Was it the 600MHz EPIA, or the 1GHz thing?
        Could you encode video real-time on that mobo?

        I'm extremely interested in this issue. Could you please reply to my email address instead of Slashdot? (see address above)
        Thanks!

  • VIA willbeat INTEL (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Unixfreak31 ( 634088 )
    At this rate will INTEL ever release an x86 compatabile 64bit cpu? I think not I know flamebait kill me now.

    • Re:VIA willbeat INTEL (Score:4, Informative)

      by drsmithy ( 35869 ) <drsmithy@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:18AM (#10449587)
      Uh, you mean like the x86-64 Xeons Dell has been selling in servers for weeks (if not months) ?
      • You mean the Noconas that RedHat had to essentially hack a special software paging mode into the kernel for over 4GB of memory for? The ones that didn't implement the NX bit? The ones that, for the most part, just plain wouldn't run stock x86-64 binaries that run perfectly on Opteron?

        Yeah, Intel's staying on top of the game alright.
    • Well, they will have to if they want to stay competitive. I'm sure they are scrambling as fast as the can. For the time being, they'll just have to up their GHZ on their 32bit chips.

      On a side note, I have been looking for some time now to purchase a via processor and motherboard for a file server. Anyone know of any sites that sell them?
      • linitx.com if you're looking for a miniITx format board/proc. May i reccoment the VIA Nehimia 1Ghz board to meet all your small computing needs :)
        • That is exactly what I am looking for. I'll check that out.

          Thanks!

          • Re:VIA willbeat INTEL (Score:3, Informative)

            by ttldkns ( 737309 )
            Ah yeah, also, if you plan to run linux on it (who wouldnt for any type of server) the EPIA wiki will be like a bible to you!
            http://www.epiawiki.org/wiki/tiki-index.php

            They have kernel patches for the M1000 board's hardware DVD decoding (among other things) as well as listing all the kernel options to optimise it for a via processor.
          • This is by far Via's biggest problem. I know several people looking for one and I never see them in any bricks-and-mortar hardware shops. I don't put much belief in the idea that shops are intentionally keeping them out, I think Via just doesn't realize how much demand there is in the DIY market and they're not pushing hard enough. They really need to have a little more faith in themselves and get these things out in the retail channel in a big way.
            • I think it is a niche market and I think the stores don't see any profit in carrying the products. They don't compete performance wise with the Intel/AMD offerings and are only of real use to people who want low power/noise systems. I know newegg used to carry VIA processors and motherboards but have not for about a year.

              The site posted above has, by far, the largest selection that I have seen. They have good prices too. It looks like I will be able to get the processor/MB/Case for well under $200.

  • Cyanide? (Score:4, Funny)

    by ImaLamer ( 260199 ) <john.lamar@g m a i l . com> on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:05AM (#10449485) Homepage Journal
    CN?

    The new VIA Cyanide chipset, the killer of all other chipsets!!!

    Too bad only half of the population will notice their presence.
    • Of course in my excitment I didn't notice that they were talking chips and not chipsets.

      Time for bed there ImaLamer... it's only 9:09 in the morning.

    • Re:Cyanide? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Alan Cox ( 27532 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @09:58AM (#10450511) Homepage
      Well one of their previous processors was codenamed C4, and the story has it this was changed because "C4" is a high explosive and they feared confusion when shipping large numbers of small packages labelled C4 around
      • DAMNIT! You have no idea how much I was looking forward to trying to get through airport security with a laptop labeled "C4 Inside!"

  • Sounds like a 'TiVO' target (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grunt107 ( 739510 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:07AM (#10449498)
    With the statement that it can be used in a digital media stream for output to HDTV (and Linux-type media center), it sounds like this chip is intended for TiVO-like services.

    If it is as low powered as touted, I would use it in embedded systems (like house/applicance control). And of course low power means good for laptops.
    • I bought a M12000 based machine in an e-Otonashi case to use for streaming to my TV, and it works great. The VIA CPU's are slow, but their Mini-ITX motherboards make up for a lot of it by having hardware MPEG2 decoding on most of them. I'd be careful (that is, test before you buy) about the M12000 for systems where you need support for other video formats, or high (as in higher than TV) resolutions, but I guess the newer VIA CPU's might be getting there.

      The main appeal to me was that with the e-Otonashi c

      • Is there a way to buy just the fanless power supply, not the whole case?
        I'm very interested in fanless power supplies for VIA mobos, but only the supplies, because i already have the cases.

  • Via? VIA?!? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Toby_Tyke ( 797359 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:07AM (#10449502) Journal
    VIA you say? *shudder*

    After my last horrific experience with their 4 in 1 driver set, I vowed to never touch another board with a VIA chipset again. That way lies maddness and death.

    • Re:Via? VIA?!? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by mirko ( 198274 )
      Via also made the EPIA processors which are mostly used in their barebones computers.
      I have one at home which I use as a Linux server and it reached 400 days uptime before I had to reboot it because of a Linux ethernet driver failure.
      So, I'd say VIA might be technically good if you keep using their products only.

    • Re:Via? VIA?!? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Give the guys a chance. After that disaster that is the via 686 chipset I sweared to never buy any of their products. That is, until I tried a Nehemia based mini-itx. Man, those systems rock. Absolutely silent, the perfect PC for that tiny firewall/small server you keep running 7/24.

      I'm actually quite excited about the new 64bit version. I don't need a 8GHz monster that needs a 250W fan to keep it from burning, but a nice, low power, silent system.

      After Smorgrav [www.des.no]

    • I too remember the pain of using old Via motherboards (MVP3's were horrible). But they've come a long way and the reliability (and performance) of their modern stuff is much better.

    • Re: Via? Via! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Alwin Henseler ( 640539 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @09:08AM (#10450017)
      "After my last horrific experience with their 4 in 1 driver set, I vowed to never touch another board with a VIA chipset again"

      Maybe you simply lack some positive experience with Via hardware? The most stable x86 system I ever had, a 486, was Via chipset based. What I currently have uses Via KM266 chipset, performs solid and very stable. With non-Via chipsets, it's been a mixed bag for me.

      I really like them advancing the art for power-efficient CPU's. For many applications, the underlying hardware is increasingly irrelevant, and other factors like power consumption become important. In the old days, computer hardware just couldn't be fast enough. Nowadays PC's are way faster than needed for almost any application. Next on the list is price, and as a result, ordinary PC hardware has become dirt cheap. What's next? Ergonomics, reliability, durability. Read: low power, small, low noise. Via CPU's fit in there nicely.

      I think a big problem for Via CPU's market share in desktop systems is not their technical merits, but their availability. If you want to buy AMD or Intel, any computershop has something on offer. But if you want to buy Via C3, matching motherboard (socket 370), or Mini-ITX board, your choices in supplier are extremely limited (at least where I live, the Netherlands). If Via wants to sell more of this stuff, they should focus on making sure that you can actually get it somewhere.

      • > I really like them advancing the art for power-efficient CPU's.

        I'm not sure they're "advancing the art" as you said, just making a smart commercial move: Intel with its PentiumM could also sell high performance low power CPU: I've seen a SpecInt bencmark where a PentiumM consuming 20W had the same result as a P4 consuming 80W!
        But as Intel or AMD sells their low power CPU more expensive than their 'normal' CPU, very few people buy one (and for PentiumM I don't think that desktop motherboards exist) and
      • I work at a computer store, and I had my company purchaser check into the VIA hardware. Unfortunately, it is sufficiently obscure that none of our regular suppliers carry any of it. I don't know that he ever tracked down a source, other than ordering it retail from England, or something rediculous. So, the problem of availability isn't limited only to the Small Shop not ordering it. VIA needs a massive PR campaign, to get more local shops to start asking about it, so more suppliers start carrying it.
  • As we recently heard about China'0s adopting their own chips and software, could it be the world version of the Chinese standard processor ?

  • Via or VIA? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Inda ( 580031 ) <slash.20.inda@spamgourmet.com> on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:12AM (#10449539) Journal

    From the linked Press Release:

    Note to reporters, editors and writers: VIA is spelled in ALL CAPS.

    Yes I read the F**cking article.

    Finicky? Me?

  • Down Periscope (Score:4, Funny)

    by hcob$ ( 766699 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:15AM (#10449562)
    I think this topic about a new via chipset requires my favorite quote from Down Periscope.

    After Turbo "fixes" the radio... again... "It's running like a Swiss... Car....."

  • Funny name for the chip (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:21AM (#10449597)
    It's really funny VIA would name their chip CN considering that (in canada at least), the main passenger rail transportation company is called VIA rail and the main commercial rail transportation is CN.
    • I like names.

      This universe is made of pure Energy. All Matter is merely an illusion created by this Energy.

      Within this medium, Consciousness can also be defined by the movement and patterns within that Energy, and thus Consciousness becomes an expression of Energy. Just as Matter is also an expression of Energy. Is there a difference between the two?

      --Now, of course, I don't know the maths behind how it all works, (though I am certain it can all be described through maths), but there do seem to be dir

  • Another Competitor. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:28AM (#10449645)
    We all know what AMD did to the processor market with the introduction of the K7. It never hurts for more healthy competition. Via la 64bit!

  • Heck yah. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Icegryphon ( 715550 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:31AM (#10449657)
    Now my toaster can have more then 4 GB of memory. mmmmm toast.
  • The chip will have 'will have much better performance Should have used the preview button!

  • Interview with CEO of VIA subsidiary Centaur (Score:5, Informative)

    by UnderScan ( 470605 ) <jjp6893.netscape@net> on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @08:38AM (#10449712)
    ./-ers might not like VIA, but you should really give them a chance. Their subsidiary Centaur is the group that designs their chips.
    CEO Interview: Glenn Henry, founder of VIA processor subsidiary Centaur [linuxdevices.com]

  • Nano-ITX (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sketch ( 2817 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @09:01AM (#10449944) Homepage

    So the SP uses the nanoBGA CPU and CN400 northbridge. Does this mean we will finally see the long awaited nano-ITX board VIA originally announced last year [linuxdevices.com] and still has yet to deliver, despite announcing availability months ago [linuxdevices.com]? Or are they giving up on the Nano-ITX and just giving us Yet Another Mini-ITX?

  • Dual EPIA is a great idea!!! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @09:10AM (#10450045)
    Hey, a dual EPIA1000 is a great idea. I'm not so interested in the size as a cheap dual CPU system with low thermals.

    Multi-processing is non-existant on a single, low power CPU system like the VIA M/E lines. But a low power dual system offers the kind lateral of processing power that a much more powerful single CPU platform can only offer.

    Of course there's always the A64's great power characteristics, but if you're looking to live in the sticks off of solar power, you start dreaming of dual systems they'll run on 26Watts total.

  • This could be an interesting cluster machine (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Analogy Man ( 601298 ) on Wednesday October 06, 2004 @09:52AM (#10450445)
    I was considering putting together my first Beowulf cluster. I wanted to go with 64 bit processor to run CFD codes. To maximize CPU's I was considering dual processor boards. Also of concern is energy consumption/heat etc.

    The boards for the AMD64 have a lot of features a compute node would not need. A compute node needs a network connection, processor, memory and one hard-drive...I don't need 5 PCI slots etc.

    This interesting solution offers:

    Modest Power Consumption

    Small form factor

    Modest Price

    Dual processor

    This is worth a look at the detail specs.

  • From the article:

    The DP prototype board eschews the DB-15 VGA port traditionally found on Via's motherboards in favor of a DVI port for use with flat-panel displays. However, DVI is backward-compatible with AGP, so perhaps a VGA port will be snuck in under the wire before the final version of the board reaches production "early next year."

    What does that mean? DVI is backward-compatible with AGP?? Sounds like somebody doesn't know what they're talking about!

    I don't expect the old VGA port to reappe

  • Just a note (Score:2, Informative)

    by peeon ( 743159 )
    This new processor most likey not be able to go fanless. This new via c3 core has higher heat than the Nehemiah cores. 20 watts to 15 watts I believe. I have one of the first 1 gig Nehemiah cores and it is on the brink of the max temp without no fan.

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