Wireless Neighborhood Networks in Canada 120
Anonymous the younger writes "Cringely once again has another column, this time with a company in Canada that does neato stuff with Open Source."
White dwarf seeks red giant for binary relationship.
The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm, I wish that everyone could have a large dish in their neighborhood. Hell I had to put up with a ton of shit at my apartment complex to get a small dish ($400 damage deposit -- $300 non-refundable, make sure it wasn't attached to anything, etc). I have to sign a waiver at my house because of the HOA. I thought the FCC mandated that having a small dish was legal and easy? I just can't see anyone having a large dish to bring this in at least in my area.
If getting this stuff for
Losing revenue from residential customers - not. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:5, Interesting)
So what you are saying is that they make no money on their residential customers and they only promote the service out of the goodness of their hearts right? They have no interest in spreading their power across the country and buying up every little company out there to take under their wing right?
This is America and we work under the Capitalist system. If something isn't profitable it is either done away with completely or bought up by the government. Comcast wouldn't be buying up every cable company in the country to spread their influences if it wasn't profitable.
Believe me. The conglomorates will not appreciate losing customers to this sort of operation. Luckily for them they can control the content that these neighborhood groups can receive and at what cost.
Either way we'll lose.
Re:Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:2)
The reason why wholesale customers get wholesale rates is that they don't require nearly as much of the service provider's support. If the cable companies foun
Re:Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:1)
Or agricultural subsidies. Those are even worse: they kill poor people by stifling global competition, they keep consumer prices high, and the beneficiaries are Cargill, ADM and the other big AgriCorps.
I wouldn't be terribly opposed to 'preservation subsidies' for multi-generational family-owned-and-operated agribiz with a size cap, but the subs we have for corn at least are fucking obscene.
Of course, we will never get rid of those subs
Re:Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:1)
Big business will then see this as a great opportunity for profit and gobble them all up and we will be back to square one. What a great future >:}
Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:3, Insightful)
The Capitalist system is NOT the free market system. It consists of getting the MOST money for your investment.
When there is competition, prices don't necessarily drop either. It doesn't have to be collusion or price fixing either but
Re:Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:2)
Man I wish somebody would tell that to the government. Corporate Welfare has gotten out of hand.
Re:Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:2)
My cable has been down since Hurricane Frances the cable got ripped off my house by a tree in the lot next to me that also ripped off my power line. Florida Power and Light came out and cut those trees and put my power line back up. When I called Adelphia about the cable being down my wife told the woman "The cable is on the ground. We hav digital cable and cable modem." The moron on the phone asked "is your regular cable working?" Then they told me three times that someone would be come
Re:Losing revenue from residential customers - not (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:2)
No way in hell are you getting a single channel for anywhere near that cheap.
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:5, Interesting)
He buys the shows from the conglomorates, the only people he's competing with are the service side of the industry.
His solution scales until there's an old dipshit on his cul-de-sac waking him up at 3 AM screaming because something went wrong and today's Oprah got cut off.
The content is really cheap, (another argument against "broadcast flags" and DRM). But the larger your customer base, the more they'll expect from you, and the stupider they'll be.
Comcast charges 40 bucks a month markup because people keep digging through the cables, can't get their cablemodem working, etc.. (Comcast sucks and is a ripoff)
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:3, Insightful)
I was wondering about the exact same thing! This is all great but is he set up to handle the annoying customer complaints? This is the main thing that would stop me from trying to do it for my neighbors.
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:2)
Big cable and telephone companies also do business very differently from this guy. He doesn't seem to try to get people in the neighborhood as customers - doesn't even seem like he charges them! So no marketing, no accounts receivable, no office so no security or cleaning crew. Big companies always love to have 50 layers of people who do nothing b
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:1)
If getting this stuff for
To quote Cringley, "What's happening in Andrew Greig's neighborhood is going to happen in three to five years in many neighborhoods. The look will be slightly different with technologies like WiMax wireless networking playing a role. Moore's Law, too, is going to have a significant impact on bringing down the cost of implementing this dream. That Starnix thin client neede
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:2)
Re:The conglomorates will put and end to this... (Score:1)
Please. (Score:2, Insightful)
Bullshit.
Re:Please. (Score:5, Interesting)
You can build multi terabyte capacity systems for a few thousand bucks...
Storage of video isn't and issue. 500-800KBps WM9 at SIF res is good enough for tv..
So the system that tapes eveything that isn't on disk is not "bullshit". The company that I work for builds hardware for the broadcast industry that is designed to do such things.
Re:Please. (Score:2)
Re:Please. (Score:2)
Absolutely true, but he's using MythTV which is VASTLY ineffecient, and needs several MEGABYTES per second to get fair quality.
It would be possibly for him to re-encode it afterwards... mplayer or ffmpeg... 2-pass mode, trellis, vhq, etc, but I don't know of any software that would re-mux it into a mythtv
Re:Please. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Please. (Score:2, Informative)
These are DVD's that will play in a DVD player, no they are not at a stupid 8Mbit bitrate, they are at a slightly better than SVHS bitrate which is better than the broadcast TV I recorded them from.
Why is it that Videophiles think they need to record tv at 22Mbit per second in 96Kbps 5 channel sound?? it looks no better than by
Re:Please. (Score:1)
How did you do this??
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Please. (Score:1)
"on a small set of DVD's (About 7 episodes per DVD) and several movies."
How does a person fit multiple SVCD format shows on one DVD? So, the quality is low, and therefore you can fit say 4 hours or so of video on a dvd, but how do you record this on a dvd so a standard home dvd player recognizes it as a dvd, but plays the content which is actually svcd?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Please. (Score:2)
Using mplayer/mencoder or ffmpeg with good options (trell, mbd=2, two-pass encoding, etc) you can have perfect-quality TV in about 1000k/s. Now, since MythTV expects everything to be it's own weird
Re:Please. (Score:1)
Re:Please. (Score:1)
India has Wireless Neighbourhoods too ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:India has Wireless Neighbourhoods too ... (Score:1)
Cringley article mirror at Mirrordot.org (Score:4, Informative)
From http://www.mirrordot.org/about/ [mirrordot.org]
Erik and Jay are the geeks behind this site. MirrorDot started with us simply doing a proof-of-concept project to see if we could create a system to automatically mirror any Slashdot-linked pages and ensure the content would remain available, even if the original site got clobbered - trying to solve the Slashdot Effect. The project worked, so we decided to make it available in September 2004 for anyone to browse and use.
Is MirrorDot perfect? No way - far from it.
Re:Cringley article mirror at Mirrordot.org (Score:2)
different server! (Score:1)
Re:Cringley article mirror at Mirrordot.org (Score:1)
Re:Cringley article mirror at Mirrordot.org (Score:2)
Re:Cringley article mirror at Mirrordot.org (Score:1, Funny)
I have a neighborhood wireless network... (Score:5, Funny)
If they connect to the wrong AP, they don't notice because it still "works".
Truly horrifying.
Re:I have a neighborhood wireless network... (Score:2)
How nice, I have free Internet! I was happy to use their beaconing WLANs until I got my own connection (and because Charter sucks and Frontier wasn't much better I was lucky to have it).
Personally, I thought it was absolutely wonderful. It made my life a lot easier
Lazy Leeching Neighbors (Score:4, Funny)
Andrew Greig should force his neighbors to contribute to the network by at least sharing their disk space for serving even more tv shows. Perhaps if the neighbors were up to the challenge (and didn't cancel their cable) they could even grab episodes of their favorite shows to share.
I'm not sure how big Andrew's pipe is, but I'm sure he won't be able to support the entire neighborhood.
I would consider setting up something similar but my neighborhood is infested with senior citizens who's VCR's are probably all blinking "12:00 PM".
I'm 2 invites away from my free iPod. [freeipods.com]
Re:Lazy Leeching Neighbors (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps if the neighbors were up to the challenge (and didn't cancel their cable) they could even grab episodes of their favorite shows to share.
No they couldn't. What Andrew does is legal, because he buys the channels from The National Programming Service just like a cable provider would. If his neighbours recorded off of consumer sources and shared it, there would be legal problems.
Re:Lazy Leeching Neighbors (Score:1)
Re:Lazy Leeching Neighbors (Score:2)
Re:Lazy Leeching Neighbors (Score:2)
Re:Lazy Leeching Neighbors (Score:1, Offtopic)
I think you clicked on the slashdot link when you meant to go somewhere that people read articles.
Re:Lazy Leeching Neighbors (Score:2)
What about the bugs? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What about the bugs? (Score:5, Interesting)
Secondly, this setup sounds very compelling until you start to read between the lines and realize that this guy's got a whole cellar full of hardware...
1. The C-Band satellite dish in his back yard and probably 10+ receivers.
2. Two or three MythBackend Systems each with multiple hardware mpeg encoding cards. These machines would probably also need at least 2 gigE cards each.
3. A database server running mysql to hold all of the recorded program meta data.
4. A storage system capable of storing 30,000 movies/tv shows/mp3's. This solution should be robust enough to support having multiple streams being written (since you've got those 3 mythbackend boxes constantly writing) plus having any number of reads as any number of Myth Front ends read data from the array. So, this would either be some sorta direct connect SAN or some type of NAS toaster with a shit loads of disk on lots of spindles.
5. A couple good gigE switches/router to connect all of this too. You would probably want to look at switches that are capable of trunking and creating VLANS.
6. WAP equipment. I'd go for something that had some really good management tools that'll allow you todo bandwidth throttling, usage monitoring/logging, traffic shaping, etc.
7. A good omnidirectional wireless Antenna so that everybody can connect.
8. An ISP that's
a) going to be cool with what your doing (such as speakeasy)
b) can provide the bandwidth necessary so that a whole street worth of people can surf the Internet while also chatting on the phone.
Now, there's also some other considerations.
Because of the cost of the equipment, Electricity and bandwidth bills, your going to have to charge for this.
So, unless your going to try to get NPO status, your going to have to get a business license and start keeping track of what you take in for profits so you can pay the tax man. Not to mention that the cost of this equipment means that you'll probably need to take out some loans for the initial acquisitions, so you'd have to figure out your THAC0 so that can hit zero to at least break even. Also, you'll need some infrastructure so that you can keep track of who's paid you and how much and who hasn't paid you, etc.
Beyond all that, we haven't even gotten into the aspects of providing tech support for all the clueless users who'll call up at 3am when they can't make a phone call and the problem isn't at your end, it's at the ISP's
Now, you've got 10 people with these Starnix thin clients in they're house hooked up to their TV's. Who's going to do the initial configuration of these things? I doubt they come pre-configured with the mythfrontend (though it would be nice), so you'll probably need to configure these things to all the settings for your myth back end.
Also, since your now their ISP, you can expect (since they're paying you for network access) that they'll be calling you whenever their completely unpatched, spyware addled Windows ME box shits all over itself... Not to mention that they'll be calling you whenever they want to put another piece of wireless equipment in their house, which means you'll have to start page listing all the gear you know works with your setup...
With all that said, this solution would work, it's just going to require a bit more work then Mr. Cringely makes it sound...
Observations (Score:5, Interesting)
This Andrew guy is obviously an UberGeek. Congratulations on achiving such notariety.
2)
This system is absolutly amazing. It is an interesting test of the application of exising technology. He didn't create anything new, he just used what was already avaliable.
3)
Everything seems perfectly legal, but some big companies are loosing money on the setup. Will Andrew's work lead to harsher laws in Canada? Once this type of setup is common place, I think that the non-communist values that some law making Canadians have may be overpowered.
4)
Another great article Cringely!
Re:Observations (Score:2)
Once this type of setup is commonplace, I bet he'll be pretty rich, pretty tired of it, and ready to do something else. He sells out to some big company that sees that he's been making money with the system. Before long, the situation is that big companies provide your communications wirel
Re:Observations (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, well, they're also getting free market R&D. This guy forges new territory and accepts all the risks inherent in doing that. Once he establishes what works and what doesn't, an intelligent risk-minimizing company can come in and buy him out or hire him as a consultant.
"disintermediation" my butt (Score:4, Interesting)
Wrong: Andrew Greig isn't "disintermediating" anybody, he's "alter-mediating", meaning in plain english that he's cutting the grass under some other middlemen's feet and setting himself up as the sole replacement middleman for all the people he serves. Likewise, if he wanted to get rid of the internet providers, he's go into the business himself.
His business is that of a concentrator of services, no more no less. Cheaper, more friendly perhaps, but nothing so glamorous as what Cringely portrays him to be. If he's clever and maintains his services, he should make money out of it too.
Re:"disintermediation" my butt (Score:2)
A cheap and friendly provider is quite glamorous in itself.
Anyone have any power? (Score:2)
One problem with this (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, bad things can happen to my cable company, but I'll still have my phone service. Someone blows up the phone company, I still can watch TV.
Something about eggs and baskets...
Re:One problem with this (Score:1)
- Kevin
Re:One problem with this (Score:1)
- Kevin
Re:One problem with this (Score:1)
Re:One problem with this (Score:2)
As for a library card, you still have an
Re:One problem with this (Score:2)
If he moves, he should give enough notice to let people get their phone reconnected. And there's always mobile phones if you want to call if something happens until you get your phone service back.
Re:One problem with this (Score:2)
Maybe, or maybe not. He could just get tired one day of all the "leechers" and turn it off.
The point is, you are not dealing with a service company where you are generally protected by laws, where they HAVE to inform you before shutting off your service. OR where you can be reasonably assured that interruptions in service will be taken care of ASAP. This is just like some guy, you know? Who the hell knows what he will or won't do?
Horray for "free" but I'd much rather pay for something that was
Re:One problem with this (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, some people are now abandoning their landline telephones entirely in favour of VOIP, and they're getting their cable television, internet access, and phone service through the same single pipe.
In this case, if something goes wrong with their service, I expect that they'll probably get a faster response from Andrew (who lives upstairs) than the
Re:One problem with this (Score:2)
Now imagine this over-lapping throughout your subdivision or neighbourhood. Kind of a new take on the idea of the mesh netowrk, no?
I personally think its brilliant. Decentralized, self-healing network of services....
Re:One problem with this (Score:2)
While it may not be smart to rely on one guy, when a company starts providing this service, that problem goes away completely.
Since the access is wireless, a company could easily have 2 or 3 seperate POPs in-range, much like overlaping cell-phone towers. In that case, you could have one of them completely disabled, and your service would remain up and running.
Personally, though, I wouldn't care if my telephone service went down when my T
He did something stupid (Score:1)
We have a strict "no external hardware" policy on the network and we are not allowed to connect to other networks with our hardware. Seems like common sense yet this is not the first time I have heard of this happening.
Re:He did something stupid (Score:2, Insightful)
I know it's hard to imagine, stuck in drone-land, but there exist good places to work, with sane policies. They only look lax or non-sensical because you're used to working with idiots.
Re:He did something stupid (Score:2)
Re:He did something stupid (Score:1)
Which is probably the actual case--you're working for one of the very few places of business where an inredibly res
Re:He did something stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
At our company probably 1/3 of the staff take their laptops between home and work (and business travel) all the time. I VPN into our system from home on a regular basis, which effectively exposes both work and home to each other. We have only had one bad episode in the last couple of years, which occurred when the MSBlaster worm got in through an infected laptop and nailed everyone that wasn't running Windoze Update. Educating the staff about spyware removal, antivirus software, and making sure everyone keeps their OS up to date, is actually a lot easier and more productive than just saying "not allowed".
Re:He did something stupid (Score:2)
Of course, if you want to get work done, cutting off tech support may not be a good thing.
Re:This wont work (Score:1)
Uhhh... I'd say that he'll drive to one of the literally hundreds of PC stores that dot the Toronto landscape, buy a new AP, drive home, climb the ladder into his attic and replace said AP... and that's if he doesn't keep a cold spare in the house for just an eventuality.
I'd say that his response time would own the local phone/cable companies... (and I know, I us
Minor Issue (Score:5, Informative)
Also, anyone else notice that IE has trouble selecting text on that page? It always selects, for me, everything from the top of the page down to where the cursor is. Annoying. (And yes, Firefox does just fine. Unfortunately I have to use IE at work.)
Re:Minor Issue (Score:1)
Re:Minor Issue (Score:1)
Re:Minor Issue (Score:2)
Shortest. Submission. Ever. (Score:5, Funny)
Which means posters have no choice but to actually RTFA before they can comment. Well done! :)
Personal servers the next step? (Score:1, Informative)
"...Open Source software is leading to digital devices being used in large volumes in ways their designers never envisioned. This takes control of the network out of the hands of the providers and into the hands of the users."
I believe, the next step is to free the users from providers whom store their personal data and even serve their e-mail and that's already happening. With products like The Net-Box [axentra.com] it is now possible to have your own email,file,calendar,bookmark server in y
Cringely once again has another column... (Score:1)
zaurus 6000 distro... (Score:1)
Re:zaurus 6000 distro... (Score:2)
Re:zaurus 6000 distro... (Score:2)
Re:zaurus 6000 distro... (Score:1, Informative)
and/or http://people.debian.org/~mdz/zaurus/
Other ways to "get in on it" (Score:1)
To all the naysayers... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:To all the naysayers... (Score:2)
Actually, if he was using something other than MythTV, or would just re-encode the videos after they were downloaded with a well-configured ffmpeg/mplayer script, he could easily get practically perfect quality TV programs at 1000k/s for video, and perhaps 128k for audio.
It's actually kind of sad how wasteful MythTV is.
Cannot believe he uses open source (Score:5, Funny)
Neighbourhood-net howto (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Neighbourhood-net howto (Score:1)
hefty server is right (Score:1)