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MGM Purchase Gives Sony An Edge In Disc Format War 254

Posted by timothy from the any-color-so-long-as-it's-sony dept.
Grump writes "The New York Times reports: 'The purchase of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer by a group led by Sony will not only give the company an enormous film library but also considerable power in its fight to set the format for the next generation of digital video discs.' The article goes on to suggest that Sony is gearing up for another Betamax-style failure."
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MGM Purchase Gives Sony An Edge In Disc Format War More

MGM Purchase Gives Sony An Edge In Disc Format War

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  • Bad news (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mirko ( 198274 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:09AM (#10255849) Journal
    I do not like the way all of these studios suddenly get aggregated by huge multinational companies...
    If they decide to prevent a movie from reaching the theaters, it begins easier and easier...

    Would "Clerks" still make a success in 2004 ?
    In 10 years, will Fahrenheit 911 sequels ever reach the public ?

    • Re:Bad news (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Nos. ( 179609 ) <andrew@nOSPAm.thekerrs.ca> on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:15AM (#10255904) Homepage
      Yes, it would. Independat film producers making it to the "big screen" is becoming more common, yes they are using the bigger companies like Tristar, Fox, etc for distribution, but these companies are trying to make money. If they see a movie with lots of potential from an independant (Farenheit 911, The Passion of The Christ) they are not going to turn it down. Controversy for something like a movie just makes it more popular.
      Remeber that old movie, Exit to Eden [imdb.com]? It was banned for a while here in Saskatchewan. It just made the movie more popular. It never hit the theatres, but when the ban was lifted and it came to video stores, it was impossible to keep it in stock, and it wasn't a great movie.

    • Re:Bad news (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chess_the_cat ( 653159 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:18AM (#10255923) Homepage
      I'd be very surprised to learn that movies are still distributed on a physical format in 10 years. Once all media is distributed over networks you won't have to worry about distributors and studios. If the movie is made it'll reach the public somehow.

      • Re:Bad news (Score:4, Insightful)

        by oneiron ( 716313 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:23AM (#10255976)
        Certainly the infrastructure to do that will be in place, but getting the movie industry to make a complete shift is going to take a little bit longer than 10 years, I think....
        • The movie industry _has_ been more agile about this than the music industry, though. i.e. look at the time gap between CD->Legal Music Download Service compared to the timegap between DVD->Legal Movie Download Service.

          Also, the broadcast bit is another good example. Even though they don't want to give up control, they are setting things up in such a way that they can distribute things w/o physical media and _keep_ control.

      • Re:Bad news (Score:5, Insightful)

        by shotfeel ( 235240 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @10:29AM (#10256599)
        I'd be very surprised to learn that movies are still distributed on a physical format in 10 years.

        I wouldn't. Considering that broadband use just passed dialup use in the U.S., and IIRC the majority of homes don't have internet access at all (while virtually all have a TV/VCR), I'd be very surprised if physical media isn't still the dominant method of delivery. OTOH the people with the most disposable income to buy movies are most likely to have a broadband connection.

        • Re:Bad news (Score:3, Insightful)

          by afidel ( 530433 )
          Ah Grashopper, but the house does not need "Broadband Internet" to get digital distribution. All they need is a cable or satelite connection, a digital cable box with HDD, and a little bit of glue to make video on demand the distribution channel of choice. If the cable/satelite companies get wise they will broker deals to allow you to download and keep a digital copy of a movie. The biggest problem is the studios are probably leary to try cutting out the current middle men without there being a proven marke

    • suddenly? (Score:4, Informative)

      by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:20AM (#10255944) Journal
      MGM bought UA in the 80's. Time bought Warner Brothers a while back too. Nothing sudden about media consolidation.
    • In 10 years, will Fahrenheit 911 sequels ever reach the public?

      Of course, multinational companies even love to release sequels to less than successful movies (Superbabies: Baby Geniuses 2). I can see the fucking dollar signs in their eyes for ones that actually made money because people wanted to go see the original!

    • Would "Clerks" still make a success in 2004 ?
      In 10 years, will Fahrenheit 911 sequels ever reach the public ?

      The internet may end up becoming a stanard for media in the same way it has affected music. Rather than relying on a standard disc format, media may end up being distributed through the net and stored on hard drives. Films like those you have suggested may end up using that form of distribution, and would be even more accessible than through current methods.

    • There is always independent film. The truly good ones will usually find a moderate audience as independant films. The truly great ones usually will get picked up and possibly re-released by a major studio (Donnie Darko, for instance)...
      • Donnie Darko was a flop in the theatres, it was not until it was released on video that it made any money for the studio. It earned less then 1 million dollars in it's 2001 theatrical release. the only reason that they are doing the re-release is to make money, if it had not gained such a cult following in dvd sales it would not be released back into the theatres. It has nothing to do with how good a movie is, it's all about the benjamin's.

  • more and more (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sosuke ( 789685 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:09AM (#10255854) Homepage
    it seems like these format wars between companies will end up making the cu lose out, haveing to buy more players, does anyone else think that dvds are just fine? HD content would be nice, but i dont think that its fair to the cu for all of us to have to buy two players, mabye they will make dual format players, and then no one will win or finalize anything, grr

    • Re:more and more (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BlueTooth ( 102363 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:23AM (#10255971) Homepage
      First you say that DVDs are fine. Then you say you want HD. Of course you do. We all know how this works, the tech keeps marching on.

      Format wars are a result of incremental progress. DVDs were so long overdue (i.e. soo much better than VHS) that the battles all occured pre-consumer (and there were many battles, just not much in the way of products produced before these things were resolved). CD audio saw a similar success (DAT doesn't count, its a pro format, which, incidentaly, Betamax has become (or stayed, really))

      Then there was DVD-A vs. SACD...why the format war? Because the industry wasn't dying for an upgrade. Sometimes it makes sense for everyone to just shut up and agree on something rather than trying to get the best possible result. In the case of the next digital video format, there isn't much of a percieved need to improvment. People are buying DVDs in droves. All a studio needs to do to generate some extra cash is release a 30 year old TV show on $50 / season box sets. Early adopters are used to format wars, it comes with the teritory.

      You also mention that we could end up with two standards both of which are supported by all players (a.la DVD(+|-)R[W] ). If that is the final result, who cares? If one studio releases everything on a 16 layered red-laser disc and another releases their stuff on a 2 layered blue-laser disc, but the player you got in your box of Cherios can play both happily, who really gives a crap?
      • You also mention that we could end up with two standards both of which are supported by all players (a.la DVD(+|-)R[W] ). If that is the final result, who cares?

        I would care. This marvelous (say, fictional?) DVD player would be very expensive, due to all the licensing "taxes" that would be included in the final retail price. Regular folks would be locked out of their own video library, unless they buy high-end equipment. Smells like extorsion.

      • Re:more and more (Score:3, Interesting)

        by merlin_jim ( 302773 )
        If one studio releases everything on a 16 layered red-laser disc and another releases their stuff on a 2 layered blue-laser disc, but the player you got in your box of Cherios can play both happily, who really gives a crap?

        Hahaha I'm hoping for Blu-Ray for one reason;

        currently blue laser diodes are impossible to find. The one manufacturer that makes them has been holding all of their production capacity for guys like Sony.

        They're apparently very difficult to manufacture. I don't think they're going to

      • Re:more and more (Score:3, Informative)

        by blincoln ( 592401 )
        CD audio saw a similar success (DAT doesn't count, its a pro format, which, incidentaly, Betamax has become (or stayed, really))

        DAT was not originally intended as a pro-audio-only format. It was supposed to replace cassette tapes. However, the recording industry forced the implementation of a serial copy prevention system on the manufacturers, which effectively killed it for home use.

        A related issue was that originally DAT only supported 48KHz mode, which was done intentionally to prevent direct 44.1KHz
    • I don't see this format war being all that relevant. VHS was around for what, 10+ years, as the king of home video? DVD has really only become the most popular format in the last 3 or so. I think they're trying to force a format change way to early. I'm perfectly content with my Trinitron CRT and PS2, and I doubt I'm alone.

  • no, don't do that... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Chuck Bucket ( 142633 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:11AM (#10255868) Homepage Journal
    cause if they don't, there won't be businesses like: Transfer your Betamax Videos to DVD [high-techproductions.com]. this way, when we don't have any more IT jobs, we can convert one DVD types to another DVD types...

    CB$#@#$@

  • Sony vs Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)

    by frankthechicken ( 607647 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:11AM (#10255874) Journal
    With Microsoft supporting the NEC and Toshiba [theregister.co.uk] blue ray format. And Sony, with its huge movie, and technology back up, who is more likely to win the war of the formats?

    Hopefully, the consumers.
    • At least it sounds like Sony is betting both ways this time...

      Add to this the fact that Sony has announced it will make drives which will read both types of HD DVD... (from the register [theregister.co.uk])
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • hold on, something seems to be wrong here. Check this [slashdot.org] out. Blu-ray is to be used by Sony, Philips, Pioneer and others, while NEC/Toshiba are planning to use HD DVD, aren't they? You won't find NEC and Toshiba's name on Blu-Ray's official site [blu-ray.com], as far as I can see.

      And to clarify further, in either case scenario, MS will win because both Next-gen DVD formats will most likely use MS codec.

      At this point, I think HD DVD (by NEC/Toshiba) is a history. And I wouldn't be surprised even if Sony has a second th

    • My vote's with Microsoft, NEC and Toshiba. I'm basing this on the Sony's fairly consistent record of being a day late and a feature short to a new market because it was trying to protect its content business. Sony's vast movie library is going to be a hindrance to them actually making the best product they can.

  • Never mind that, what about The Hobbit? (Score:5, Informative)

    by FunWithHeadlines ( 644929 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:11AM (#10255875) Homepage
    The sale of MGM was of interest to fans of LOTR since if Time Warner had bought MGM it would have meant a fast track for filming of The Hobbit with Peter Jackson et al. MGM has the filming rights for the story, and New Line (owned by Time Warner) has been trying to negotiate to get the rights to do the film. Had TW bought MGM, presumably this would have smoothed the way for the film to proceed. Now with Sony owning, what is going to happen next? Will they negotiate with TW to work something out that should be quite a lucrative venture? Or will they dig in their heels?

    Geeks everywhere want to know!

    • Now with Sony owning, what is going to happen next?
      Probably nothing

      Will they negotiate with TW to work something out that should be quite a lucrative venture?
      Highly unlikely

      Or will they dig in their heels?
      Even more unlikely

      Geeks everywhere want to know!
      This may be the only definitely "YES" to your questions :)

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:12AM (#10255881)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Says Who? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by east coast ( 590680 )
      DVD may skip a frame now and then, and yes, there's still the chance that the disc may scratch, but for the most part, it's more than value-priced technology. That is, the price is fair given the failure rate.

      Sounds like someone talking about records when CDs were new... This is the march of progress and it's also the reason to never buy first generation anything. Let the rich techno-illiterates buy it up to pay for the R&D and once the bugs are worked out you get a better technology at a fair price.

    • Re:Says Who? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hrm ( 26016 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:25AM (#10255992)
      Yes, but the capacity on current DVDs is simply not sufficient for HD signals. And HD is where we're headed...

      This is also the reason I favour the Blu-Ray format; it has 25 GB where HD-DVD offers 15 (I think both numbers are per layer, could be wrong).

      Going from 4.5 to 15 per layer does not seem worth the effort, from 4.5 to 25 just might be. Also, I think the HD-DVD camp is making the very common mistake of overestimating *practical* video compression technology. Theoretically 15 GB might just be enough for 3 hours HD movie at 1920x1080i. However, the current DVD market shows most studios can't tell their arse from a good mpeg encoder.

      Video compression is a bit like compiler technology; when Intel launches a new pentium it's like "well it won't work faster than the old one right away, but with a smart compiler it'll really fly"... however, that new compiler never materializes, or simply isn't used by your software vendor. So your shiny new processer won't fly after all.

      Therefore, in CPUs and DVD storage capacity alike, over-engineer where you can! Vote blu-ray.
      • HD might be where we are headed.... eventually... the sad truth of the matter is this is a long time off. We don't have the infrastructure, the viewers don't have the sets and the standard bodies keep changing their minds. They want to make revisions to the ATSC standard already!

        We have several years to develope a new format and by the time HD does become mainstream we will most likely have a new format anyway.

        Me, I'm not going to worry for a long time to come. I'm certainly not going to be one of the poo
        • Me, I'm not going to worry for a long time to come.

          That's fine for you, but I'm going to worry. Do you realize how many more trailers and boring interviews and other "extras" will fit on the new disks? Think FBI warnings 2 hours long, followed by another hour of MPAA "Don't Click" ads before they allow you to watch the movie!

          Seriously, I do remember when some studio execs were interviewed and expressed their dismay that consumers expected DVD's to be chock-full of extras you don't get anywhere else -cost
      • Theoretically 15 GB might just be enough for 3 hours HD movie at 1920x1080i.
        uh-oh, I'm not so sure about the compression encoding, but 3 hours for a disc isn;t going to be enough - where will they fit the optional endings, the deleted scenes, the director's commentary, the PC game, the actor's biographies, the .. etc etc

        We'll see what we get in the end, not a lot we can do about it right now.

    • Dear Poor Eyesight (Score:4, Informative)

      by DumbSwede ( 521261 ) <slashdotbin@hotmail.com> on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @10:35AM (#10256654) Homepage Journal
      Anyone that thinks DVD is "good enough" is terribly short sighted.

      I would estimate DVD quality to be about 3x VHS (about 2x more pixels, and a much better color space).

      HDTV has 6x as many pixels as DVD, at 2 Mega pixels.

      From my experience with a 10-foot wide projection system (NEC LX135 QXGA) I have at home, anything below DVD is almost unwatchable. DVD looks glorious until you pump a true HDTV signal into the system and then what you have is in many ways better than going to the theater (at least the crappy cineplexes in this town).

      Now you might carp who the hell has 10' wide projection systems to really enjoy this kind of experience. The percentage is small today, but I predict that DLP will cause hi-res projection prices to plummet in the next 2-3 years. Mostly because DLP will experience the same kind of Moore's law improvement as any other type of chip type process, while other methods rely more on bulk size improvements.

      In fact while it has been long to make it out of the Labs, Hi-Res displays will probably be common and affordable in Ultra-HD resolutions in 5 to 10 years time. (over 8 mega pixels) in large sizes.

      I suspect U-HD will be overkill for home, and in most ways exceeds 35mm film quality when you factor in film speed (grainer for faster) and editing and reprocessing (loosing quality at each step). Sure, theoretically 35mm film has 16 Meg pixel, but in practice it is more like 3-6 (not much more than HD). And that's only if you can find a theater that knows how to keep a critical focus, and whose machines don't jitter uncontrollably because they are trying to squeeze the last penny out the damn things before going digital, which they desperately want to avoid as long a possible because first generation equipment is expensive and will suck compared to equipment available in 2-3 years time.

      Even without 10' screens, in 2 or 3 years, WUXGA screens (1920-1200) will be common and affordable in laptops with Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD built in. The near photographic look will motivate people to upgrade their home viewing experience. One of the biggest reasons for HDTV slow acceptance has been the failure of early systems to actually display the full quality that the standard supports (most systems today advertised as HDTV still don't). That and of course the lack of actual HDTV content to be viewed.

      I suspect I will be one of the ones to say HD is good enough once we really get there. My father has trouble seeing the detail of DVD. So many people don't have the visually acuity to really appreciate the difference. Beyond HD I suspect the majority of people won't really be able to see much of a difference. I'm speaking of REAL HD. 1080p at 60 frames a second is really sweet, but over the air stops just short of this with p at only 24 and 30 fps. My prediction is that eventually 1080p at 60fps will become a standard, one that holds for a couple of decades or more, but we could get stuck at 1080i or 720p, which is a shame because the difference is quite noticeable up to this. Digital photography might still motivate people to buy U-HD projection systems for displaying stills.

      As for me -- GIVE ME BLU-RAY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!
      (while the CRTs hold out on my current system)

  • Once bitten, twice shy (Score:5, Funny)

    by tod_miller ( 792541 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:13AM (#10255886) Journal
    Oh Sony, first betamax, and your memory stick (ok it is cute).

    I wrote you a haiku to make you feel better

    lets buy MGM
    why not it'll be fun, come on
    hail our new disc format

    ok it isn't that good but whatever.

    I can imagine a new Blu-ray player with memory stick input and built in ps3! :-0

    In fact, will PS3 use the new disc format? or PS4?

    I say good luck to em. As long as I can write my XVid movies to 'em :-) :-) :-)

    *come on that is the real need here!*

  • Sony PlayStation Portable (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tepples ( 727027 ) <.tepples. .at. .gmail.com.> on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:14AM (#10255893) Homepage Journal

    I guess this merger also means we'll see more films than just Columbia Tristar Home Video's limited selection on the UMD format used in Sony's PlayStation Portable handheld system.

    • I think the PSP consideration is a major factor in Sony's decision to buy MGM. Hopefully, Sony is not stupid enough to set themselves up for another Betamax style failure. If that is the case, then the PSP angle makes more sense. Having a huge library for UMD formatted discs will only help PSP sales and keep a large chunk of movies out of any competing portable player formats that may arise in the future. Remember, during the Playstation 2 launch in Japan, a lot of PS2s were being bought to play DVD movies.

  • Well... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:16AM (#10255914) Homepage
    I don't see any reason why this format would be a betamax failure. It seems pretty solid. But yeah, given Sony's record of unsuccessful and barely successful formats, this is probably right.

    Betamax, minidisk, memory stick, atrac3. Arguably SACD as well.

    • Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by notanatheist ( 581086 )
      Obviously you've never been to Japan where MD still rocks away. I'm actually in the market for a new MD player after sitting on the sidelines for a few years and not using mine. With a massive MD collection and some of the new players offering in excess of 20 hours off a single battery AND FINALLY data storage capabilities. The new HD-MD holds 1GB of data for only a few bucks. Try scratching or dropping an MD. Just pile the little things anywhere you want. Lastly, there are active linux projects for MD supp
    • I don't see any reason why this format would be a betamax failure. It seems pretty solid. But yeah, given Sony's record of unsuccessful and barely successful formats, this is probably right.

      Betamax, minidisk, memory stick, atrac3. Arguably SACD as well.

      Yeah. We all know how much of a terrible failure Sony's Compact Disc (CD) format was.

  • Nothing Compelling (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr. Arbusto ( 300950 ) <.theprimechuck. .at. .gmail.com.> on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:19AM (#10255933) Journal
    Seriously, people just bought DVD's. Heck, most of my collection is in DVD format. Which is as good as I need and probably as good as it gets for the next 20 years. From DVD there is no real compelling reason for the consumer to upgrade. It is already high digtial, the market already enjoys the Value Added features. Making a release in another format would be like Sony Max all over again.
    • Blu-Ray is cool. Especially if the quad-layer 100GB discs ever take off.

      Instead of 6 discs per season for tv-shows you'd only need 1. Heck you could press whole series on 1 disc.

      I recently thought that it would be cool if there were dvds of all of the Olympics. Not because I want to watch 1500h+ but because I'm interested in a few sports and they always get neutered on TV. Digital TV improves that somewhat but it would be cool to have a 4 disc set with all footage of the games (250mb/hr seems realistic be

      • Instead of 6 discs per season for tv-shows you'd only need 1. Heck you could press whole series on 1 disc.

        Oh come on... Then I wouldn't get to have a fold out DVD cover with David Hasselhoff showing his chest hair and 80's fro on my Knight Rider DVD season 1 DVD set.
    • "From DVD there is no real compelling reason for the consumer to upgrade"

      Other than the fact that it looks like poo when compared to HD...

      Sure, I doubt I'll be buying 'slave girls from beyond infinity' again on HD, but I'd upgrade my favorite movies to HD tomorrow if I could.
    • No, there is no compelling reason for the average consumer to upgrade. However, the early adopters -- those of us who have already upgraded all of our equipment to support high-def -- are DYING for HD DVDs.

      I have four HD displays in my house. I'm in the process of building my own movie theater with a 160" screen. It's absurd to me that the only way for me to get high-definition movies is to watch them on cable. I would re-buy most of my movies in high-def tomorrow if I could.
    • You've obviously never seen true HD format material then. The quality of a 1080 HD signal (not paying attention to interlaced versus progressive for now) absolutely blows away the 480 signal you get from DVDs. There is a very limited selection of material available over 480, but you can find some at Microsoft's WMV site here: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/con t ent_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx [microsoft.com] that is easily played on your computer. Even on my dinky 19" monitor, I can see a quality dif
    • Heck, most of my collection is in DVD format.

      Ahhhh! A youngter!

      Despite regular purchases, my CD collection is barely bigger than my LP collection, and my DVD collection has a long way to go to catch up to the size of my VHS collection.

      I have to say though that I don't feel near the compulsion to get all of my favorite VHS tapes on DVD as I did to get my LP's on CD. I don't think I'd feel any compulsion to get my current DVD's again in HD.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:20AM (#10255951)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • far from a failure (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:27AM (#10256010) Homepage
    The article goes on to suggest that Sony is gearing up for another Betamax-style failure.

    Betamax was far from a failure. it was better than VHS, a overall better design from the beginning and is still pretty much near the standard today in broadcast (betacam is very much like betamax.)

    They failed because of two tiny points.

    Tape size - not fricking long enough.. they fixed that with a larger format but by that time the damage was done.

    Adoption - VHS was far cheaper to license, so the porn industry latched onto it and ran, thus solidifying the VHS format as the defacto standard.
    • You're confusing technological failure with product failure. Sony squeezed their golden goose 'til it died. I'd say, in order, the most important parts of a format success are:

      1) Content
      2) Price
      3) Quality

      You've got to be superior beyond belief for (3) to trump (2) or (1). Say, black and white analog vs Hi Def for a 20% premium. HDTV has (3) in spades, but is missing (1) and (2). The adoption is just barely getting off the ground now, as (2) and (1) begin to come into line with NTSC. I believe that, if

  • The succeeding standard will be... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Writer ( 746272 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:28AM (#10256020)
    ... the first one used to distribute porn! The adult industry has a much greater influence on technology than the industry cares to admit.

  • If only Sony didn't have such a bad track record (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BlueTooth ( 102363 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:30AM (#10256032) Homepage
    Betamax
    Mini Disc
    Memory Stick
    Blu-ray?

    • What bad track record? (Score:5, Informative)

      by tepples ( 727027 ) <.tepples. .at. .gmail.com.> on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:42AM (#10256121) Homepage Journal

      PlayStation. PlayStation 2. Compact Disc itself, co-developed with Philips.

      True, Betamax the format is dead, but Betacam the format and Betamax the copyright precedent live on for now.

      • I'll give you CD, but PS and PS2 can't count: they're inherently propriatary, i.e. Sony doesn't _want_ anyone else to go out and build a PlayStation unless they liscense through Sony.

        Also, while Betamax lives on as BetcamSP and D-Beta, you should remember that they (Beta brand products) were around and accepted _before_ betamax existed. In other words betamax was supposed to be a consumer adaptation of the pro line of beta formats, and it failed.

  • Who cares (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Alizarin Erythrosin ( 457981 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:31AM (#10256035)
    Both formats will probably have a ton of DRM in it anyways. It's all just a money making ploy to get us to buy new "special edition" disc sets... "Now with 15 seconds of additional footage and some interview with one of the extras!" That and new players of course.

    And isn't DVD already in 480p?

  • It's Sony, DUH. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by brxndxn ( 461473 )
    I don't know of any other company that has tried and failed more times to set its own monopoly in some form of media. Any discerning nerd avoids Sony products like the plague because they undoubtedly go against any set standard.

    The ones I know about:
    - betamax
    - mini-disc (though it eventually opened up to other manufacturers after it was old technology)
    - Playstation/Playstation 2 (ya, most video game systems aren't compatible with other manufacturers.. but this is still an example)
    - Memory-stick (wtf.. we h
    • Playstation/Playstation 2 (ya, most video game systems aren't compatible with other manufacturers.. but this is still an example)

      There is no "set standard" in the console industry, so that's not really a good example. PSX won the console war in the mid/late 90s and PS2 isn't doing half-bad, so either way the format was a success.

  • Not betamax (Score:3, Interesting)

    by samberdoo ( 812366 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:33AM (#10256048)
    Sony is in a much better position now than they were during the beta/VHS wars. They lost that one because they were much smaller and alone. They now have allies, the playstation is around and Sony owns more music and movies than they did. People are now are used to multiformat players and recorders. I think the trend will continue. Remember beta was a different size and shape, we are dealing with basically the same media with a different format. That being said, I agree that some of these monopolistic trends are bad for the industry. I wonder what format Microsoft will choose for the Xbox 2.

  • Sony MGM park? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pavo ( 70713 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:34AM (#10256051) Homepage
    What does this mean to the Disney MGM park? Is Mickey Mouse going to have to carry a walkman now?

    I assume they are going to keep the MGM branding, but has anyone heard anything else about this?

  • the problem with sony.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Suppafly ( 179830 ) <(ten.ylfappus) (ta) (todhsals)> on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:48AM (#10256166)
    .. is that no one wants them to become the standard in any format war.

    Sony would like to set themselves up to be the microsoft of the entertainment world. They consistantly ignore market demands and instead produce devices they want people to have instead of devices that people want to have.

    Honestly, how many people would want a portable music player that plays some format other than mp3? and takes a higher priced, sony only memory card?

  • Next Generation of DRM (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @09:56AM (#10256242) Homepage Journal
    This is what its really about, the control ..

    Remember this is sony we are talking about..

  • Really Betamax? (Score:3, Funny)

    by tjansen ( 2845 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @10:00AM (#10256288) Homepage
    Does it have to be a Betamax-style failure? What about a Minidisk-style failure? Or a Memory-Stick-style failure? Or an Attrac3-style failure?

    Sony spent the last 20 years creating redundant formats that nobody wants.
    • Its worth noting that Minidisc is still an extremely popular success story in the UK and Japan. Basically, the only marketed area where they failed is the US.

      I had one for the first three years of college, and loved it: I could toss MDs in my bag without worrying about scratching, and it was a quarter of the size of a CD player. That said, I now worship my ipod as a deity.

    • Re:Really Betamax? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by fishbowl ( 7759 )

      >Does it have to be a Betamax-style failure? What
      >about a Minidisk-style failure? Or a
      >Memory-Stick-style failure? Or an Attrac3-style
      >failure?

      Those are all really successful formats.

      Minidisc is alive and well, as is Sony DAT with ATRAC. Memory stick is doing no worse than any other single memory format. Beta was *THE* pro vidio standard for more than a decade.

      You seem to be measuring failure by what is popular in the consumer world, but you conveniently ignore the pro world when you do tha

  • The Format of the Future (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @10:07AM (#10256355)
    I think there really should only be one 'format':
    The file. We should be moving to a future where all our music and films live on media with a filesystem.

    So many DVD players today read CD/DVD-ROMs with MP3 files and there are even some now that can read DivX files.

    Of course it won't happen because the big companies want us to keep buying our films and music again and again in new formats. But a file created today can be with us forever. I actually think that's the main reason behind DRM. Not to prevent illegal copying but to wring revenue far into the future by licencing the decoder to hardware manufacturers.
    • The main thrust of the conflict is the physical medium, not the file format. Even if all next-gen DVD players read the same logical file format, they still couldn't read that file from the wrong kind of disc. It'd be like having a DAT tape full of MP3's. You still need the right device to pull the data.

      BTW, standard-issue video DVD's use a variant of an ISO-9660 file format to store the VOB files that make up a DVD. I'd provide linkage, but you can google as easily as I can.

  • Sony will win the format war (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bludstone ( 103539 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @10:10AM (#10256379)
    Because the ps3 will have blue-ray.

    Assuming the ps3 follows the popularity of the ps1 and the ps2, a high percentage of households will already have a blue-ray player. (over 50 million ps2s have been sold)

    Frankly, I dont see much advantage of these disks over DVDs, and Ive _got_ an hdtv.


  • It might not have captured the home market but every edit suite and camera in every tv station everywhere almost certainly had the "Sony Betamax" and later "Sony Betamax SP" logo on it.

    Nowadays it is being displaced by digital formats but for at least 15 years it was the leader in it's market.

    I'm sure they would be very pleased to undergo such another failure.

  • Don't forget video-on-demand (Score:3, Informative)

    by Drunken_Jackass ( 325938 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @10:20AM (#10256497) Homepage
    "Sony also announced yesterday that it had reached an agreement with Comcast to offer Sony and MGM movies over Comcast's video-on-demand systems and on new cable channels that it would form with the Sony group."

    From an article here [itweb.co.za].

    I don't know about you, but i hardly ever go to the movie store anymore (unless i want to own a DVD). I rent most of my titles from Time Warner's video-on-demand. This agreement opens up that whole distribution channel (no pun intended) for all of those classic MGM titles.

  • Speaking as a LA local and film geek... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MsGeek ( 162936 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @10:34AM (#10256649) Homepage Journal
    It will be good to see the MGM sign on top of the old MGM Studios which is now Sony Pictures Entertainment Culver City. It won't make up for the fact that Sony butchered a lot of the vintage Art Deco buildings on the lot and redid them in an pseudo-Art Deco style, but for tradition's sake being able to call the facilities MGM Studios again is sweet.

    The fact that this means more consolidation of media in the hands of fewer and fewer companies, however, is very, very distressing. http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/mediaconsol.html [pbs.org]

  • Sony and MGM films. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jskline ( 301574 )
    Hmmmm...

    The major issue I had with a lot of this is "marketing". They are generally the problem. Marketing is entirely the reason behind the VHS vs Beta war, and to this day, are behind much of the current day issues of products. Quality of an item or service anymore means absolutely nothing. It's all in how you market, and how hard you do it. You can be selling crap-on-a-stick, and people will buy the heck out of it all day long if you market it in the right way.

    The current bit with Sony buying all this
  • Star Wars is all set to go in HD. I wonder which format will be backed? It could provide a lot of oomph for one format or another... In fact it could really drive a tremendous number of early adoptors to one format or another, giving a real marketshare boost.

    I think Blu-Ray will win out though, because of the storage advantage.

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