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Wireless Networking Hardware

Wheat Field Wi-Fi 177

Posted by CmdrTaco from the amber-waves-of-broadband dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The world's largest wireless network is not the proposed network in Philadelphia. It's in Walla Wall, Washington. Built by the Columbia Rural Electric Association, the network covers an area larger than the state Rhode Island. The network is already operational in the rural Washington State farming community of Walla Walla."
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Wheat Field Wi-Fi More

Wheat Field Wi-Fi

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  • Ummm.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Laivincolmo ( 778355 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:08AM (#10176490)
    Why put it in the middle of a wheat field...?

  • Seems a bit pricey compared to other small WISPs. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:09AM (#10176496)
    The cost of the service ranges from $39.95 per month for 256 kilobits per second to $259.95 per month for 1.5 megabits per second, speeds that are five times to 30 times faster than dial-up connections. Husted, who plans to start marketing the service this month, expects 200 more customers by the end of the year.

    Are they charging so much money because of lack of a userbase (100 people or so) or because of the amount of land covered? Chaska, MN [chaska.net] has wireless coverage bursting to 3mbs bi-directional for $15.99 (residential) or $24.95 (commercial). I don't exactly see how $39.95 a month for 256k is all that fantastic. At that point you might be better off just staying with a $9.95 cheapo-ISP. YMMV I suppose.

    • Re:Seems a bit pricey compared to other small WISP (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ciroknight ( 601098 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:14AM (#10176542)
      Wireless is probably the only connection available in these areas; Dialup degrades as your distance increases from your core phone system, and dialup speeds in the middle of a corn field are probably not too hot (14.4k anyone?). The only other suggestion for high speed internet for these people would be satelite (read: expensive), or dedicated cable of any kind (read: even more expensive).

      I would be more than willing to pay 40$ a month for 256kbps in the middle of nowhere, instead of paying 30$ a month for 14.4kbps AOL or 4-500$ a month for a dedicated T1 or something like that.

      • Re:Seems a bit pricey compared to other small WISP (Score:4, Interesting)

        by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:33AM (#10176674) Journal
        What's the latency like on a mesh like this?

        Satellite isn't that expensive, but the latency is awful, making it useless for online gaming, etc.

        Also, what kind of usage policies are in place? I'd imagine since everyone has to "share", I'd eat up my share of the pie pretty quickly.

        In a neighbourhood like mine, where Comcast has a bit of a struggle providing enough bandwidth on the cable to keep us all online, how well would a wireless mesh like this work?

        In a 1000 square mile area where I live, I could easily see 1000 people online at once, dragging everyone down to sub-dialup speeds.
    • $259.95 per month for 1.5 megabits per second

      A T1 isn't much more than this. If I were a local business, I would just buy the T1 and share it out with a few others to defray the costs.

    • Exactly how can the Chaska service provide such cheap service? I am trying to calculate the costs necessary to do a WISP and I simply can't see how that would work unless it is rediculously oversold, as in the 3mbps is the entire internet connection. Chaska also only covers subdivisions.

      I'd say the $40 service for 256k is still a good price because the area probably doesn't get 28k modem service.
      • In my past experience working for an ISP in rural SD, most customers do get at least 28.8. Getting more than 28.8 becomes difficult but often a good modem will get you higher speeds on a crappy phone line. Personally I had a line with some static and went from around 32 to 53.3 just from buying a really good US Robotics external modem. I am talking about actually telneting into the portmaster at the ISP and checking the connection speed. We always recommended customers do this, and it often worked ery w
      • It's not hard to get that kind of price. Don't forget that the actual contention ratio that people get on ADSL or cable is only 20:1 or 50:1- users simply don't get close to maxing out their pipe most of the time.

        With a single 3mbs web link you can support 50*3/0.256 = 600 users.

        On top of that, there's multiple WIFI channels, and further, using directional antennas and multiple masts you can reuse the channels quite a bit.

        And 50:1 is not ridiculously oversold- I'm sitting on that right now, I'm perfe

        • OK, I was thinking of starting out assuming 3:1 oversell. I had a hard time figuring out what to assume, because information on the net is very sketchy.

          I knew that most people don't use the link much. Reading a page then going to another one leaves a lot of dead time, and not everyone is using the internet at one time. Not many users will be doing a massive download at one time.

          Do ISPs run chaches to save link bandwidth, or is this considered unecessary or even detrimental?
    • Households in that part of the country are likely less dense than one per square mile. You gotta cover the value of all that equipment to cover the area. This is the part of the world that might not have had dial up available (if they did it was likely not 56k) and certainly didn't have a local number for a $9.99 ISP.
    • If I read this correctly, the price includes not only the wireless transport, but the ISP service as well. Reference the woman who said it was only slightly more expensive than her AOL service.

      I pay about that much for my combined DSL and ISP service. For rural communities such as these, combining the transport and the ISP makes a great deal of sense.
    • I apologize for my agricultural ignorance, but is there some reason you'd want wireless in your wheatfield? Like, is there a reason to have your irrigation machine or tractor online?

  • This is fantastic! (Score:4, Funny)

    by unknowns ( 799192 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:14AM (#10176539)
    Why? Networked tractors of course!
    • US News reports that crop circles were back. This time the phoenomena are stranger and more intriguing than ever.

      Dr. M. Shamalanian had this to say:

      • This is clearly evidence of an intelligence besides our own, and evidently an attempt from a different species at communicating in our own words. It certainly isn't human communication, since the spelling mysteriously confuses words and numbers. Probably an indication that the Alien life form has a hard time distinguishing between our similiar characters

    • Precision Agriculture (Score:3, Informative)

      by benj_e ( 614605 )
      Tractors have been computerized for quite some time. Check out NASA's Precision Ag [nasa.gov] site.

  • Biggest Little State in the Union (Score:4, Funny)

    by blues5150 ( 161900 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:14AM (#10176543) Homepage
    covers an area larger than the state Rhode Island.
    Unfortunately, this could never happen in Rhode Island because you'd have to buy off too many politicians.
  • Is that really that hard to do?
  • Selling Wheat-field Wi-fi in Walla-walla, Washington and a googly-eyed Elmer Fudd dreaming of all the wonderful possibilities of using the information superhighway

    Enter Road Runner with a bleump-bluemp, and Wile E. C.... Oh wait, that's the competition

  • Walla Wall? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm pretty sure that's Walla Walla, not Walla Wall. You know, the place with the onions.

  • Vivato Phased Array (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Baldrson ( 78598 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:18AM (#10176573) Homepage Journal
    It's good to see the Vivato phased array packet steering technology [slashdot.org] get a serious deployment. I've been pushing some smaller metro areas around the PNW to look at deploying that but the wireless mesh technology has been easier to justify since it is more incremental with fewer single points of failure. I'm glad the guys out east took the plunge so the rest of us can learn if this is really going to be as much of a revolution as it potentially could be.

  • "an area larger than the state [of] Rhode Island" (Score:4, Funny)

    by JessLeah ( 625838 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:18AM (#10176575)
    Big deal. Most of my closets meet that description. Now if only I could get one of those walk-in models...

  • wala wala, washington? (Score:3, Funny)

    by minus_273 ( 174041 ) <aaaaaNO@SPAMSPAM.yahoo.com> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:21AM (#10176597) Journal
    i thought they made that name up for old bugs bunny cartoons!

  • How many Bananas? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:25AM (#10176618) Journal

    Rhode Island: 1,045 square miles [census.gov]

    Is saying "big as Rhode Island" supposed to be more impressive than 1000 square miles or so? 33.3 miles by 33.3 miles?

    Pretty big, but not so thrilling if you use numbers rather than impressive sounding fake measurements. Especially over mostly flat land.

    A "library of congress" isn't as big as you think it is, either. Impress me with measurements in terabytes and petabytes, not "library of congresses".

  • world gone mad? (Score:4, Funny)

    by antimatt ( 782015 ) <xdivide0@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:25AM (#10176619) Homepage
    HOLY CRAP! Walla Walla made it to Slashdot. I suppose next we'll have President CowboyNeal.

    This is probably the biggest thing to happen to this valley since, oh, the Ice Age.

  • Shouldn't they have used Wi-Max? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tibor the Hun ( 143056 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:26AM (#10176630)
    Wouldn't have made more sense to implement a Wi-Max (802.16) based network than installing all the Wi-Fi access points?

    • Re:Shouldn't they have used Wi-Max? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Baldrson ( 78598 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:03AM (#10176966) Homepage Journal
      Here's what David P. Reed [reed.com] has to say [interesting-people.org] about WiMax replacing WiFi:
      Delivered-To: dfarber+@ux13.sp.cs.cmu.edu
      Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:59:40 -0400
      From: "David P. Reed" <dpreed@reed.com>
      Subject: Re: [IP] OUTSIDE THE BOX: Wi-Fi Is Dead, Long Live Wi-Max
      X-Sender: mail.reed.com:dpreed@127.0.0.1
      To: dave@farber.net, ip@v2.listbox.com

      The idea that WiMax replaces WiFi is like thinking that 18 Wheelers replace
      private automobiles, or a saw replaces a screwdriver. That such ideas
      even pass muster in the "press" is a comment on how little the technology
      press understands the technology it covers. (of course the marketers who
      tell the press how to think are guilty, too - the idea that the prefix "Wi"
      means seems to be "hot new technology that ought to boost the stock price
      like -tronics used to").

      What WiMax might replace is coaxial cable or DSL copper, or the fantasy of
      FTTH - certainly the companies that leverage themselves by huge junk bond
      issues to put infrastructure in the ground are vulnerable to a
      high-performance, cheap to deploy, rapidly depreciable alternative. In a
      stretch it might compete for 3G's slot in the world (if they change the
      underlying physical layer to compensate for 60 mph mobility).
    • Is WiMax available yet, and what do the parts cost?

      I thought WiMax wasn't supposed to be available until 2005. I certainly hadn't found any when I looked a few months ago.

  • Obligatory Simpsons quote (Score:3, Funny)

    by ajkst1 ( 630286 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:27AM (#10176632)
    Krusty: OK, memorize these funny place names: Walla Walla. Keokuk. Cucamonga. Seattle --
    Homer: [laughs] Stop it, you're killing me! [laughs more] Seattle.
    Krusty: [groans]

    -- The trials of teaching Homer, "Homer the Clown"

  • Info on the State of RI mentioned... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Apollo Jones ( 673555 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:29AM (#10176643)
    For the curious, the State of Rhode Island is 1,045 Sq Mi. with about 1,000 persons per Sq. Mi. Rumor has it the state has another 500 Sq. Mi covered by water. It has 408,424 Households with a 1999 per household income of ~42K. With a 2003 estimated population of 1,076,164. For the really curious check out RI Census page http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/44000.html [census.gov] The area is certainly larger than RI. But I would venture to guess that the topology of RI is also very different than Walla Walla. For example, I think RI ranges from 0-800 feet above sea level. Not sure, but I would guess Walla Walla is fairly flat.

  • Obligatory Wafarming Joke (Score:4, Funny)

    by drewzhrodague ( 606182 ) <drew@nOsPaM.zhrodague.net> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:31AM (#10176659) Homepage Journal
    Of course, I have to bring-up warfarming, the practice of farming while discovering wireless networks. Impressive that it's larger than the area of RI. People used to tell me I was nuts when I would bring-up wireless networks, now even wheat-fields are getting 'em! Anybody wardriven this area?
  • A field of dreams...if you build it, nerds will come...
  • $39.99 for 256Kbs...? Satelitte Internet is $59.95 and its (I believe) a hell of a lot faster than 256Kbs. Why wouldn't they just use satelitte instead of a whole new infustructure, etc...?

    • Re:Expensive (Score:4, Informative)

      by the unbeliever ( 201915 ) <chris+slashdot&atlgeek,com> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @10:40AM (#10176711) Homepage
      Ever priced out the equipment and installation fees for satellite internet?

      Also, the ping time is guaranteed to be 1000+ ms (500 up to space, 500 back down, then you have to account for traffic)

    • Re:Expensive (Score:3, Interesting)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 )
      Because satellite service sucks ass.

      Especially in an area as overcast and rainy as Washington state.

      Even when you are connected, the latency is god-awful as all your packets go to space and back.

      Then after two days of light web browsing and reading email, they decide arbitrarily that you've abused the system, and FAP you down to speeds much slower than dial-up.

      I looked into satellite when I was land-locked on an island and had no other broadband options. I had a really hard time finding anyone with any
      • land-locked on an island
        <Inigo>I do not think that means what you think it means...</inigo>
  • Do they also track their herds with GPS devices in Walla Walla?
  • Walla walla - eh? Tell me more, tell me more.

    Etc etc

  • Farmer Joke (Score:1, Funny)

    by chillmost ( 648301 )
    Rush Limbaugh and his chauffeur were out driving in the country and accidentally hit and killed a pig that had wandered out on a country road. Limbaugh told the chauffeur to drive up to the farm and apologize to the farmer.

    They drove up to the farm, the chauffeur got out and knocked on the front door and was let in. He was in there for what seemed like hours. When the chauffeur came out, Limbaugh was confused about why his driver had been in there so long.

    "Well, first the farmer shook my hand, then he off

  • And then John Carmack walked out of the wheat (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    And asked if I wanted to play DOOM

  • This isn't a hot spot. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Darth Muffin ( 781947 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:19AM (#10177203) Homepage
    I live in Eastern WA and get down to that area almost weekly. This is *not* a hot spot. If you run your favorite wardriving tool you will not detect this network with a normal wi-fi adapter. I've tried. It may be 802.11b, but you need their proprietary hardware with (I think) a directional antenna. And you'd have to know where to point it also...

    This is merely just an ISP that is delivering broadband wirelessly. Pretty cool though, that they can cover such a large area that normally would be hard pressed to get a reliable 56k connection (our plants out in the wheats there have no end of dial-up trouble).

  • This is some next level s**t, y'all. It's got my wheels turning...

  • Also in Washington - Yakima County Wifi Network (Score:4, Informative)

    by tminusnetwork ( 811385 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @12:36PM (#10178210) Homepage
    Cisco carries a brief press release on the Yakima County public safety network, a WiFi network that replaced the old repeater/trunking radio network. Yakima county is the second largest (by area)county in Washington state and with careful site planning and radio engineering, they are able to cover almost the entire county with 30 wireless bridges. You have to realize that most of the county is located in a large valley surrounded by fairly tall hills, so it is an ideal candidate for line-of-site networks. But to cover 4,296.1 square miles in such a manner is pretty impressive. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/wireless/ps 430/prod_business_case09186a00800a9de3.html [cisco.com] The press release is very bland compared to the actual implementation. The police and safety officials seem to love it. This network is now becoming a standard for implementation by many of the rural counties in Washington and Oregon.

  • Walla Walla on Slashdot (Score:2, Informative)

    by bataeu ( 811394 )
    First off I have to say, WOOT, I cant believe my small home town got on slashdot. I mean we had the simpson and bugs bunny but now slashdot. Wow. Anyways, I would like to point out that while Walla might be a small little town this new service is not its only or best solution for internet. You can get cable and dsl in Walla just like any other place and it isnt much more expensive. The farmers can even get cable on the outskirts of town. I suppose they cant get it on their combine but who the hell car

    • "Outskirts"? What about the other 4500 farmers out there that aren't within a mile of WW city limits? Communities like Touchet, Lowden, Prescott, Wallula and the isolated ranches in between? Those towns are still without the luxury of cable tv, let alone broadband internet ,forget about it if you're out in Clyde or Starbuck. I can see most ranchers seeing this as a great relief to standard dialup out there. I'm sure that there are quite a few people out in the sticks that still use partylines which are ent
  • More efficent farming, reduced costs of equipment, all put forth in place by a capitalist company that saw an open market and an efficent way to enter in that market and make a profit.

    It is innovative solutions to market demands like this one that the backbone of the American economy, and culture. If only more company's could realize this and get back to where they started from.

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