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Handhelds Hardware

Handtop Roundup 86

Posted by CmdrTaco from the technology-we-desire dept.
captainJam writes "As the OQO is due out soon (interview with OQO CEO), it's important to have a look at all of the options. Most are Linux happy, one isn't. Most have a touch screen, one doesn't. The article has comparisons between all the devices and their size, power, connectivity, interface, resolution and a look at strengths / weaknesses."
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Handtop Roundup More

Handtop Roundup

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  • One of these things is not like the others (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 29, 2004 @09:37AM (#10102224)
    Turns out a banana somehow ended up in their review of handtops.

  • What stops these from replacing laptops? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm serious, what does? They dont have the same power, but really they are pretty much the same.

    • Re:What stops these from replacing laptops? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Most people only think smaller is better up to a point. If they can't have a 15" or larger screen and full size keyboard they'll look elsewhere. Apparently the majority of people who purchase notebook computers have big ham-fists and bad vision.

      I for one would love to have something this portable, although the OQO has been coming soon for so long it'll be like an electronic abacus when it arrives. It really needs 802.11g, USB2.0, more than 256MB RAM, etc...
      • Most people only think smaller is better up to a point. If they can't have a 15" or larger screen and full size keyboard they'll look elsewhere. Apparently the majority of people who purchase notebook computers have big ham-fists and bad vision.
        You don't want to write a longer text without a real keyboard one character at a time, do you? And you don't want to use PS or PDF-Files in Printing-Format on a small screen either.
      • Odd, I buy laptops because I like being able to sensibly have several windows open (IM, couple of xterms, brower window, IRC) on screen, and being able to use 9 fingers at once to type.

        I can't see any advantage to these. The only time I could use one, that a laptop wouldn't work for, is standing up. This pretty much means situations where a PDA would seem perfectly suitable, such as note taking or making calendar entries. Carrying a laptop isn't a big problem for me, weight wise, and I walk everywhere - fo

    • Based on what I have been reading about the increased popularity of laptops, many people are buying them as desktop replacements. You get the power of a desktop, with the relative portability of a laptop. As nice as the Transmeta CPUs are for low power/long battery life, I wouldn't consider 1GHz as a replacement for an AMD64 3200 CPU.

      I don't consider some of the ne 17" laptops really portable, but if you need to get power and screen real estate on the road, they aren't a bad choice.

      • Based on what I have been reading about the increased popularity of laptops, many people are buying them as desktop replacements.

        I've always preferred to use laptops as desktop replacements simply because it takes up less space. Desktops, especially if you're using a CRT instead of an LCD display, seem to take up an entire desk, leaving you with less surface area to use the desk for anything else. In fact, I very rarely move my laptop from where it sits.

        • ... a shuttle XPC and put a nice LCD on it?

          much cheaper and faster desktop replacement than a laptop.

          • why not buy a shuttle XPC and put a nice LCD on it?

            I guess I'm just used to laptops, after having constantly travelled with them years ago, and I'm not really concerned about price. And although I've been into computers for ages, I've also noticed that people who aren't generally seem to gravitate towards them as well. I can't explain it, but I can understand the appeal of laptops. It's some strange market demand.

      • Larger laptops are very useful for people like me who share their time between two or three different dwellings. In my case I spend extended times in two different homes and a boat. I don't carry around my laptop every day, but I pack it and take it with me whenever I change living locations. For my setup, a large laptop is the ideal "home" computer.
    • I like my laptop but handtop is the preferred direction - easier to carry, less heat, etc.

      Laptops are getting bigger but with all the size, the features don't seem to go anywhere. There's enough space for 25 USB ports but these machines don't even give you a floppy, not a real big deal if you can boot from CD.

      The biggest handtop I found - it has a 17" screen and weighs about 20 pounds. Reminds me of the base of Sun Sparc 1.
    • Probably the same thing that stops laptops replacing desktops. After all, they don't have the same power, but really they are pretty much the same...

  • New Interface needs (Score:4, Interesting)

    by korthof ( 717545 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @09:44AM (#10102252) Journal
    These just scream please invent me a new interface to me. Maybe we could start learning these babies: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/10/009201 &tid=137&tid=159&tid=1&tid=218 [slashdot.org]
    • Agreed, the interface is flawed. Mead has developed a palmtop that addresses most of these issues. It has near 100% handwriting recognition, is very user-friendly, and can easily withstand a fall. Battery life is excellent. The primary flaw is that the graphite stylus is a wear item, and must be replaced periodically.

      Mead Palmtop [staples.com]

  • Sony Vaio U-50 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by norminator ( 784674 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @09:44AM (#10102256)
    Hasn't this comparison already been on handtops.com for a while now? I've used the Sony Vaio U-50 a bit, and it's really a nice little package. Sexy little touches like LEDs on the buttons that fade off, the general look and feel of the whole unit, and the 802.11g is very nice as well. I'd buy one for my own personal use if I could afford it. They would be awesome for travelling. They say they're not Linux-freindly, which I don't think is that big of a deal anyway for something like this. If it wasn't for the occasional unpredictable reboot, they'd be perfect!

    • Re:Sony Vaio U-50 - there is just one prob (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      ... well, you're right mate, except the fact that there is one small problem that prevents people with experience from buying it:

      It's a Sony!

    • Re:Sony Vaio U-50 (Score:3, Informative)

      by Fred_A ( 10934 )
      My only experience with Vaio computers has been with the very first PictureBook model which has run Linux from day one and I never had any problems with it (except for the camera, although later models were supported). So I can't say there has been any Linux hostility per se.

      Of course I'm not exactly a very representative population on which to base a decision either... :)
  • OQO has been due out soon for a long time now - it sure looks nice, but things are catching up - I hope it really does land.

  • The article left out... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SemperUbi ( 673908 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @09:47AM (#10102268)
    ...which models, if any, supported an external folding Targus-style keyboard. That's something I'd be looking for. I have an external keyboard for my old Visor, and I use it way too much to want to buy something that I couldn't type on, once in a while. Those little onboard keyboards just can't handle real typing.

    But it was nowhere in the article. Anyone know if there are decent USB *portable* keyboards around?

  • OQO (Score:2, Informative)

    by edrams ( 778721 )
    The OQO is really cool. [slashdot.org]

  • Question... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Electrawn ( 321224 ) <electrawn.yahoo@com> on Sunday August 29, 2004 @09:52AM (#10102283) Homepage
    Why would anyone want a handtop as opposed to a Treo, Palm or 12 inch screen plus fullsize keys laptop? Maybe if these things could play gameboy cartridges...?

    Who has a handtop? And what do you use it for? Curious...

    -Electrawn

    • Why would anyone want a handtop as opposed to a Treo, Palm or 12 inch screen plus fullsize keys laptop?

      The handtops can run the same OS as a desktop or notebook, so you get the same applications, whereas PDAs don't. 12 inch laptops would be more ergonomic, but I suppose there probably would be a market for people who want them smaller. Maybe it's just a cool toy?

      • You might get the same applications, but good luck doing full-on GIMPing on a 6 inch screen. Got bad vision? You will get it soon enough...
  • Apparently (according to the blurb), it's "important to have a look at all of the options" -- really? why? Unless, of course, you only mean important to OQO's bottom line?

  • Picture ? (Score:3, Funny)

    by polyp2000 ( 444682 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @09:58AM (#10102302) Homepage Journal
    Urm... why have they got a picture of Bono on the website?

    Nick...

  • no way (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xlyz ( 695304 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @10:00AM (#10102305) Journal

    the real issue is human I/O, that means screeen size and a usable tool for data input (reasonably sized keyboard and or pen + reasonably effective handwriting recognition) in a format small and light enough to be really portable.

    these lack in every aspect

    palmtop and tablets are much more close to the ideal
    • It's funny because I look at tablets the exact same way you look at these devices: not even close to fitting my needs. I can see that tablets are where we may go in 5-10 years but right now the software just isn't there.

      I just want a PC I can use like a PC but that's really, really tiny (PDA sized). The FlipStart is really tempting...
      • well, with my big hands I will never get used to such a small keyboard

        on the other side saying that tablets are closer to the ideal does not mean that they are perfect ;)

        still a lot of rad to do ...
        • duh ... put the right sort of condom on the OQO, and you can use your grubby fingers as a touchpad.

          these things are just a software patch or two away from being -good- devices in the usability department, turning it into almost totally tactile software (i.e. you are touching the place the action is happening, not some remote peripheral...)

          i can already see the 'flash animation' games that you can do with pocket touchscreens and such. oqo will bring it, and who knows, maybe linux ain't so far away from ha

  • 24 (Score:3, Funny)

    by PhotoBoy ( 684898 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @10:15AM (#10102350)
    Well the bad guy on season 3 of 24 had an OQO and he used it to escape from Jack Bauer by using it to show him floor plans and escape routes.

    So if you're an evil megalomaniac on the run the OQO is surely the palmtop for you!

    • Well the bad guy on season 3 of 24 had an OQO

      You've noticed the product [wired.com] placement [macobserver.com] that has been used in Hollywood where good guys use Macs and bad guys use PC's. Apparently it's really evident in "24".

  • 4 totally different machines (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @10:16AM (#10102355) Journal
    Just by looking at the interface you can tell that all four are taking a totally different approach to the market.

    The flipstart is very close to a traditional laptop. I may be wrong but its use seems most natural when you put it down on a surface and start typing away. Just like a laptop but a lot smaller. With the advantage that in public transport laptops often don't fit.

    The OQO is the only other one with a keyboard but it would seem uncomfortable to use for a lot of typing. If you lay it flat down for easy keyboard access the screen will be at an odd angle. Hold it in your hand and you will have to use the old hunt and peck approach to typing. Although it may be small enough to hold in both hands and type with the thumbs I think it will not equal the Flipstart in typing speeds.

    The sony has a lot of controls but no keyboard. Clearly aimed at GUI apps therefore. Touchscreen are not a typist dream. It does however have plenty of controls so controlling media or a game or browsing shouldn't be a problem.

    The last one is clearly aimed at special markets likely to run their own software. Not really well suited to a desktop enviroment.

    The OQO beats the others on size. Important but the flipstart is very close and has the protected screen and is closest to a laptop. The LID thing seems nice as well.

    I think it all depends on how much typing you want to do on the move. Lots then it is the flipstart. None then you can go for the sony. OQO sits neatly in the middle and the antelope is just to big.

    The flipstart wins again on screensize compared with total size.

    What I find odd is that battery life isn't previewed at all. Traditional laptop life times are very very bad. Especially since these devices seem such natural mobile media players.

    Oh well, nice toys but we are soon going to see more and more cheap media players. It will be intrestting if they are going to add "extras" just like the iPod has an adress book. iRiver seems to planning some game support for its upcoming media players.

    OQO coming out. Half-life 2 gone gold. The Sims finally getting a new engine. Doom 3 out. Longhorn stripped down and getting a closer release date.

    Soon we will have only DNF left over as vaporware.

    • ``What I find odd is that battery life isn't previewed at all.''

      You know, that is one of the first things I wonder about for any mobile device (which is the main reason I have an iBook). However, usually battery life is not listed. Too often that is because it's too shameful. Why don't they make mobile devices mobile? (answer: consumers don't care, they want performance and features)

    • Re:4 totally different machines (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Battery life *is* reviewed. They note that it is 2-3 hours depending on usage, and so close to identical for all the handtops (due to the striking hardware similarities) that it isn't worth mentioning again.

      IMO, this battery life sucks ass. If they want it to be carried around and used without much thought or trouble, it needs to last through at least one full day of heavy use. For example, in a 16-hour day that includes a morning commute, work, lunch, work, dinner, some evening activity in town, and a com

  • Not sure I'd trade (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @10:25AM (#10102399) Homepage
    Those are some neat little units but I got an iPAQ 4355 with integrated Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and keyboard for 400 bucks. The keyboard isn't quite as useful as the fuller size ones but still quite good. For the functionality I get I'm not sure I'd spring for the extra 1,600 dollars. Not without a really good reason. If I need more storage I can add an expansion card, still far short of a handtop but enough for what I need.

    Seems like the handtops might be in kind of a clumsy market nitch. For just a little more you can get a full blown laptop with more power and storage. For a lot less you can get a very functional PDA that does most of what you'd want a handtop to do with a longer battery life that's much easier to carry around. I could see uses for these, I'm just not sure it's a big market.

    No, my iPAQ isn't Linux friendly. Had there been a Linux option for my iPAQ I'd certainly have opted for it. Hopefully HP will offer a Linux-based PDA to go with their Linux laptops. That would be a killer combination.

    It was pretty funny last night. Having dinner at a Thai restaurant and decided just for grins to kick on the Wi-Fi link. To my surprise it found a network right away, an open wireless router at the mortgage company next door. Great thai food and high speed internet. Nice bonus.

    • Re:Not sure I'd trade (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It was pretty funny last night. Having dinner at a Thai restaurant and decided just for grins to kick on the Wi-Fi link. To my surprise it found a network right away, an open wireless router at the mortgage company next door. Great thai food and high speed internet. Nice bonus.
      I'm sure your date was thrilled.

      • Re:Not sure I'd trade (Score:5, Funny)

        by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @12:23PM (#10103057) Homepage
        I'm sure your date was thrilled.

        My wife's used to it. :) She eats a lot slower than I do so she doesn't mind that I have something to do instead of watching her take one painfully, agonizingly slow bite after another, like some kind of human eating sloth.

        Besides, we had ourselves almost talked into thinking we had West Nile virus until I was able to call up the symptoms.

  • another option -- the Sony U101 (Score:5, Informative)

    by mattdm ( 1931 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @10:44AM (#10102496) Homepage
    While the article covers the U50/U70 model, it doesn't talk about the slightly older (and kinda hard to get, but still obtainable) Sony U101 [mattdm.org]. I've had one for a while and really love it -- I'm typing this message on it right now. The above linked site is my detailed page on running Linux on the system (which I haven't updated in a while, but will soon, promise). Anyway, unlike the U50, it's shaped more like a mini laptop -- but it's still smaller than some of the systems on handtops.com.
    • Hey matt, really enjoy your site. The U101 is listed on our history of handtops [handtops.com] article. It's not listed in the roundup because the roundup is limited to the _current_ crop of handtops. Trying to find a U101 these days can be difficult, none of the online importers I've contacted sell it. That said, I've been trying to get my hands on one to test it out, looks like a great machine. Keep up the great work on your linux on a u101 site.
      • thanks. I really hope Sony returns to the form factor -- the u50/70 is an interesting device, but doesn't have the same appeal to me.

        PS: I think the Toshiba Libretto should definitely get inclusion in the history -- especially the earlier, smallest models.
  • I really think the FlipTop is going down the right path. I'd love to get something about the same size as a PDA (maybe a bit larger) but that can run a real OS and all my apps. I don't want to sync my email/contacts/appointments. I want to run Outlook on one computer and that's it.

  • U101 has been wonderful (Score:4, Informative)

    by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) <bruce@perens.com> on Sunday August 29, 2004 @10:54AM (#10102544) Homepage Journal
    I purchased a Sony PCG-U101 with the extended battery in Japan when they came out. IMO this was the first functional handtop. Folded, it's about the size of a VHS tape. I put Linux on it right away. I can touch-type on the 14-mm keys after some warm-up. It is the unit I prefer to take when flying. ACPI still doesn't work (something about the restart vector), but otherwise everything is functional. It fits very well in a fanny pack, along with the standard battery, and with those batteries there is enough power to write for 9 hours. That is as much as I'd want to work on any flight. I can walk around with it all day without feeling the weight.

    Bruce

  • While technically not a handtop, I'm definitely looking forward to a flybook. Definitely the most connected portable device out there. Perfect for setting up personal area networks.

    http://www.handtops.com/show/news/21
  • OQO's keyboard size is an issue, but the real pity with the keyboard is that they squandered the space they did have available. The layout is extremely wasteful of horizontal space.

    The unused space to the left of the keyboard is huge. They also passed on putting the mouse device among the keys as on an IBM Thinkpad, instead putting it in its own dedicated large, wasteful swath of horizontal territory.

    They could have put non-alphabetical keys to the left of the querty down in an additional row, but they di
  • Back when I was a consultant traveling around the place. Lugging that big ol' laptop around the city, in crowded subways, on airplanes, up stairs, etc. was a big annoyance.

    With one of these handtops I'd be able to carry it in one hand like a book or even in my jacket pocket. And when on airplane I could easily stuff it into a backpack with my other stuff instead of carrying a separate Targus bag.

    I'm not doing the consulting thing any more, but if I ever do it again I'd definitely look into getting a hand
  • When via finally produces the nano-itx boards, and the new, even tinier boards they are hinting at, it should be possible to roll your own "handtop".

    Tiny drives, more compact batteries and color touch screens are more available all the time. Cabling is an issue, though.

  • ... ideally if it had inside one of the 5 GB micro-HDD - that would also be the ultimate iPod killer !

  • I'm getting a U50... (Score:3, Informative)

    by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <revaaron@hotmail. c o m> on Sunday August 29, 2004 @01:12PM (#10103391) Homepage
    I plan on having in my hot little hands a U50 in 2 or 3 months. Up until recently, I was using a Sigmarion 3 [superboxes.com] handheld PC as my primary computer when at home. It was a sweet machine, but I had to sell it to make a school loan payment. Before that, it was a Jornada 720, equipped with a 2 GB PCMCIA hard drive, also great. A lot of people assumed since I was using what most folks consider a PDA as my main computer that I was nuts- after all, don't PDAs have a tiny screen, 160x160 or 240x320? Pfft. The Sig3 has a 800x480 screen- just like the new OQO- and the J720 has a 640x240 screen. Both are great for browsing the web, email, coding and many other types of work.

    If you're wanting something like this, be it a Sig3 or a Zaurus, I highly reccomend Conics.net [conics.net]. A big difference between one of these new "handtops" and the Sig3 or the Jornada 72x is price: the Sig3 usually costs around $500, while these new guys all cost around $2000. Especially a consideration when you're not planning on dumping the laptop or desktop at home for one of these handtops.

    I've been waiting for the OQO for years now, and I'm sure glad I didn't sell the iBook to generate funds back during the first pre-order.

    But the new Sony U50/U70 machines look like to be my dream machine. A nice screen. All the ports.

    The only thing that would be more perfect is to have a U70-like device, but with the built-in keyboard. Not in a fixed laptop mode like the Sig3, but with the abiliy to convert- think the Zaurus C7x0 or most of the tablet PCs. That would be the perfect machine for me.

    The Tablet PCs out there seem fine, except they're all huge. I want something with a 5" to 6" screen, not 10"-14". Not only can I not fit that in my pocket, it's hard to fit in my hands/arms for more than 10 minutes. Then you need to sit down, get it onto your lap, or put it on a table. I have no idea what those Tablet PCs folks are thinking having huge and heavy devices. Nothing more than laptops with touchscreens.
  • I like the word "handtop". Whoever coined it probably did so for business reasons, as it fits nicely with the etymology of the PC industry -- desktop, laptop, handtop!

    Does anyone have information on the origin or story behind the word "handtop"? A few Google and Wiki queries turned up nothing conclusive, so I figured returning to the Slashdot article would be an excellent place to start...again.

    (In 50 years, stories of these word origins might prove to be more valuable than we'd think, from a purely histo
    • Whatever happened to the word "Palmtop" anyway? And I thought "Handtop" was a trademark for a specific model of Palmtop...
    • I could be wrong, but I like to think that the usage started with handtops.com. Prior to this, the OQO / FlipStart were called mini-pc's amongst other names. Prior to that, such devices were called palmtops. Nobody was using the term handtops (that I could find) when I started the site (and thus the usage) early this year. There is a palm OS app called handtop (at handtop.com) but that's for Palm OS and has nothing to do with mini-pc's / handtops. Curious if anyone can find a previous use of the word. Not

  • Bluetooth (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Hast ( 24833 ) on Sunday August 29, 2004 @03:46PM (#10104328)
    Strange that only the Flipstart and OQO has Bluetooth since BT + BT keyboard would be a good match for these things. (Strange since both Flipstart and OQO have built in keyboards.) And before you complain you don't have to lug a MS or Logitech Bluetooth keyboard around, there are half-keyboards like the Frogpad out with BT support.

    I was considering a U50/70 but the lack of Bluetooth was the final straw. I don't mind that there isn't one built in if I can use one wirelessly. In fact I'd prefer that they save the space and not have one built in. If I need it that much there are several sub-notebooks that can do the job.

    Besides that I think it's a bit funny that they are running a comparison of 4 products where 2 are not even out yet. And I won't believe any release dates from OQO until I see one in a store.
  • What about the whole range of stuff that's available from the Far East.. like on http://www.conics.net/

    Jules

  • Here is a nice web site that debates the new class of portable computers "ultraportables": http://ultraportables.net/ [ultraportables.net]

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