How Wireless Meshing Could Save Energy 103
An anonymous reader writes "EE Times reports that the future of industrial automation lies in wireless mesh sensor networks. From the article: 'It is the holy grail of the factory floor: hundreds of sensors wirelessly connected, monitoring motors for problems and drastically reducing energy consumption -- all with the precision and rhythm of a philharmonic orchestra.' (Other articles here(1), here(2), and here(3).)"
Labour/paper/energy saving?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Therefore I don't have high hopes for energy saving via a new energy saving system. I can see visions of technicians rushing around in gas-guzzling trucks
Re:Labour/paper/energy saving?? (Score:2)
Try manually calculating something like a trigonometric table. Then tell us about how it's easier than Excel bar graphs.
More like energy transfer (Score:1)
Saving energy... (Score:4, Interesting)
My dad told me stories of Back In The Day(tm) when AM radio stations would broadcast at 300,000 watts, or more, and streetlights would be lit by the radiant energy. Can't imagine that did people much good living near the antennas...
Radio Luxembourg, the great 208 had 1300 Kw on MW (Score:5, Informative)
TheLuxembourg Effect (Score:2)
Radio Luxembourg is, however, most famous as the source of the "Luxembourg effect." In 1933, shortly after these powerful transmissions started, its modulation was heard in the Netherlands, mixed with that of a German station on another frequency (1). It was soon proposed that this occurred because Radio Luxembourg's signal was so powerful it was heating the ionosphere, producing a nonlinear condition that mixed the two AM signals (2). This effect has since been studied by the HAARP [alaska.edu] (High Frequency Active
Re:TheLuxembourg Effect (Score:2)
Re:Saving energy... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Saving energy... (Score:1)
One of my earliest electronics projects was a 'crystal radio' all self powered by the radio energy. The radios are very simple, effectively an L-C bandpass filter.
Re:Saving energy... (Score:2)
I've often wondered about the 1/r^3 law for em transmissions. How come radios don't get alot weaker very quickly as you drive away from the radio station?
If you could power streetlights by the AM transmissions, wouldn't that mean that you could also electrocute yourself by touching any long peice of metal?
Re:Saving energy... (Score:1)
you do get a charge from a long piece of metal. radio waves are high enough frequency that the energy mostly travels on the surface instead of through your body. look up Nikola Telsa (already mentioned above) and find out how he often stunned audiences by holding a phosphorescent bulb and lighting it with the radio frequency current running along his ski
I, for one... (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, though, this would make my job a whole lot easier...monitoring the operation of a pair of 8MW generators (or a host of other equipment) from a single location vice constantly hopping around from point-to-point looking at every little gage and meter gets real old, real fast.
Re:I, for one...[OT] (Score:2, Insightful)
You realize, of course, that just means they'd give you more work to make up for what they took away. Right?
Re:I, for one...[OT] (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I, for one...[OT] (Score:2)
Re:I, for one... (Score:1)
Your job, or the job of the Indian who replaces you?
Re:I, for one... (Score:2, Insightful)
Mesh networks have been around for years, but have not reached the masses because they just aren't ready. They're fine for experimental [mit.edu] uses, and maybe even for community networks [cuwireless.net], but as industrial sensors? No thanks.
Use RS422.
Re:I, for one... (Score:2, Funny)
Generally, I believe the prime mover is more likely to explode.
Hmmm... (Score:1)
FYI [OT] (Score:1)
Re:I, for one... (Score:1)
keep in mind a wireless mesh system may require it's own optimization and tuning to function in an industrial invironment...
How secure are such setups? (Score:4, Interesting)
END COMMUNICATION
Re:How secure are such setups? (Score:2)
Re:How secure are such setups? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How secure are such setups? (Score:2)
http://networks.silicon.com/lans/0,39024663,39121
Re:How secure are such setups? (Score:2)
For another thing, however, TFA says: "Each sensor node will use an inexpensive microcontroller and wireless-transceiver chip operating with the ISO-802. 16.4 wireless protocol, which involves secure handshaking between nodes.".
Another thing, I can't help wondering. Why do you end your posts with 'end communication'?
An explanation (Score:2)
I use 'END COMMUNICATION' at the end of my posts for the same reason as people use signatures at the end of their post. Because it amuses me. Because it sounds abrupt and borderline hostile. Because it actually looks like it might belong at the end of a forum post or e-mail.
That, and its an obscure simpsons quote from the episode where Kang and Kodos run for president.
But its not that I am that much of a Simpsons fan. It truly i
Re:An explanation (Score:2)
Re:How secure are such setups? (Score:5, Informative)
Standardized AES encryption [zigbee.org].
BTW, I'm pretty sure that the article had a typo - they probably meant IEEE 802.15.4 (aka Zigbee [zigbee.org]), not 802.16.4. The Zigbee FAQ [zigbee.org] has a lot of valuable information about it.
security features of the IEEE 802.15.4 spec (Score:3, Informative)
Almost correct. You need AES-128 authentication and message integrity checking, not encryption, but ZigBee has both. Encryption merely makes the message private, but authentication ensures that the source address wasn't spoofed, and integrity checking ensures that it hasn't been corrupted or modified before reaching the recipient.
BTW, the IEEE 802.15.4 spec is available for free download [ieee.org].
Re:How secure are such setups? (Score:1)
Re:How secure are such setups? (Score:1)
http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~valeri/EMP.html [chalmers.se]
Re:What about SAR? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What about SAR? (Score:2)
If the energy is low enough it's probably no worse than that green tan you've been developing from fluorescent lights. I'm miffed about all the stray 2.4 GHz signals whick keep knocking off my satellite radio -- It's a wonder the park isn't filled with mutant squirrels or Man-Spiders or something.
Re:What about SAR? (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, this is moot when compared to the EMI that most industrial electrical equipment generates. Hundreds of 3-phase motors, giant transformers, and multi-kilowatt circuits make for a far stronger field at the low end of the spectrum than an army of small sub-watt range transmitters.
If there are any left here. (Score:1, Flamebait)
Easily done. Just make then in China where all our factories have been relocated.
Re:If there are any left here. (Score:1)
tinfoil mode (Score:1, Insightful)
An anonymous reader writes "EE Times reports that the future of police monitoring lies in wireless mesh sensor networks. From the article: 'It is the holy grail of law enforcement: hundreds of sensors wirelessly connected, monitoring citizens for problems and drastically reducing energy consumption -- all with the precision and rhythm of a philharmonic orchestra.'
OK, maybe not a philharmonic orchestra -- a bean burrito perhaps.
Munchkins...? (Score:5, Informative)
This idea strikes me as an implementation or extension of "Munchkins" described in an ancient (1996) paper [ifindkarma.com] by Rohit Khare and Adam Rifkin.
The idea basically describes very small, low-power devices that can route messages between each other until they find the target device (or a valid route to the target device). I have to wonder [gadgetophile.com] whether new devices like the iPAQ with GSM, WiFi, and Bluetooth are trending towards this behaviour. It wouldn't take a heck of a lot to turn the iPAQ 6340 into a device that can intelligently route incoming packets over any of its connections.
I'd love to be able to pick up my cellphone, and connect to my PC via a network of industrial sensors built into traffic signals, bus stops or the nearest ATM.
Re:Munchkins...? (Score:1)
I can just see a trojan buried deep inside the ketchup dispenser next to the cash register at the McDonalds ("Now accepting credit cards [wistv.com]!").
Re:Munchkins...? (Score:1)
Re:Munchkins...? (Score:1)
And why not, add GPSr into it and your car drives itself while you channel surf your in-dash TV.
RoboCHP: "You have received a ticket for excessive speed."
You: "Wtf? I wasn't driving! I was guided by the CityNetwork!"
RoboCHP: "Ignorance is no excuse. Erk! Have a nice day. Erk! CityNetwork has been 0wn3d! Erk! Resistance is fultile... etc."
Munchkins? More like SW: Attack of the Clones... (Score:2)
Well that, and an 'I, Robot' quote, "Robots building robots... Now that's just stupid."
Interference? (Score:5, Insightful)
So how long will it take to get those machines updated? Well, one of my first jobs out of the U was making a tape punch work on a PC so they could edit programs and load them from paper tape. That was in 1990. I'm guessing that these will be a great concept for someone building a factory floor from scratch, but retrofitting is going to be a big flop.
Re:Interference? (Score:5, Interesting)
but retrofitting is going to be a big flop
Actually the whole point of this work is to retrofit the factory floors (or other places using large motors). According to Wayne Manges, you're looking at $20 to $50 per foot to install wiring, so a $200 wireless sensor would be cost effective compared to running wire. The system could pay for itself by flagging one motor that is having problems before it fails - DOE's hope is that you can also tell tha the motor is chewing up electricity at an excessive rate.
Re:Interference? (Score:2)
Re:Interference? (Score:4, Insightful)
In this case, the wireless mesh is being used for monitoring the health of the motor not for active process feedback.
Car analogy: When driving a car, your primary feedback is what you see out the windows and that's what your attention is focused on 99% of the time. Every now and then, you take a look at the gauges to make sure the engine is running properly (which is what the info on the mesh provides). If the gauges show something amiss, you may have anywhere from a few seconds (pegged coolant temp or no oil pressure) to several hours (or longer) to deal with the problem.
Re:Interference? (Score:2)
While there are still manufacturing/power plants out there that are working without automation, I haven't seen one in a while. Nearly all of them have automated teir systems and are currently monitoring
Re:Interference? (Score:1)
True for power wiring but not sensor wiring. As someone else pointed out, the main cost is the labor of installation.
Existing process control systems are concerned with the process and not necessarily the equipment - you may have transducers to report motor power consumption, but those won't necessarily tell if the increase was due to process problems or a motor bearing about to fail.
Re:Interference? (Score:1)
Zensys for the home. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Zensys for the home. (Score:1)
Intrinsically Safe (Score:5, Interesting)
Safty and reliability are absolutes in industrial control.
A machine like a bottler goes down at pepsi, and they are losing $250k/min when that machine isn't running. Or a pharmacutical company drops a batch worth $3 million. And now that I've climbed in or on huge presses, mixing tanks, 6ft. fans, high preasure steam, and poison vapors... I wouldn't trust thier function to a wireless web.
I can see where this would be great for remote/hazardess sensors and transmittion, but not anytime soon for control. Hell, we still extensivly use rs232 over ethernet.
Re:Intrinsically Safe (Score:2)
The focus of this work is is developing systems for monitoring, not control. The wireless technology is to avoid the cost of running wires, the mesh aspect is to minimize the number of access points.
The technology is no where near established enough for safety critical systems.
Re:Intrinsically Safe (Score:1)
We currently do this on a "closed-source" AGV system (PLC programs are traditionally open-source in that the code never gets compiled or copyrighted). The manufacturer of the AGV's, Controls Engineering of Ann Arbor, uses a wireless network to tell the AGV's to stop/go. When this doesn't work in conju
Re:Intrinsically Safe (Score:2)
Re:Intrinsically Safe (Score:1)
Too true
But when was the last time that you had a PLC lockup for no reason? Okay, excluding Allen-Bradley
Kudo's for the sig
John
Re:Intrinsically Safe (Score:2)
Sweet! (Score:4, Interesting)
This is pretty sweet. This way, you don't have to waste more energy by putting a transformer onto the motor's circuit. The best part is that it uses energy that you're normally wasting anyway.
Re:Sweet! (Score:1)
By using three CT's you can get rotation, balance, and ground fault data as well. And these devices currently exist We use them by the hundreds (but not for transmitting data). It would be a small jump in design to use these devices to generate power as well.
You would then use this power to not onl
Howzat? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Howzat? (Score:1)
But the idea is to tend your data over time to get a picture of when things are going south.
And transmitting a reading once every fifteen minutes would keep the power requirments way down (and that's more than enough data for most applications).
John
Orchestra? *snicker* (Score:3, Funny)
Didn't John Cage describe an orchestra as an instrument of destruction?
Just more of the same "in the box thinking" (Score:2, Insightful)
This is just another example of our tax money subsidizing large industry. If the US is really a market economy, then allow the market to correct for inefficient use of energy by simply increasing the cost of energy. He
Re:Just more of the same "in the box thinking" (Score:1)
The unemployment rate is not tied to capital efficiency. As a matter of fact, highly efficient capital often requires little labor since low labor costs make it more efficient than a similar investment with high labor costs. Think of investments in art or realestate.
High profits, unless consciously distributed across all classes, tend to aggregate wealth at the top where disposable income is high. This means that this capital will be invested rathe
Am I the only one... (Score:2)
There are two possible outcomes... (Score:1)
Re:There are two possible outcomes... (Score:3, Funny)
From the article:
>The network is self-healing, too, so that in case a forklift driver blocks your transmission, the network will automatically search for another route that maps around the forklift
The network is self-healing, so if a forklift goes nuts and you hide behind a container, it will the network will automatically instruct the forklift to go around the container to search and destroy you.
energy savings in doubt (Score:2, Informative)
For discrestionary motors, like
Re:energy savings in doubt (Score:1)
The motors will still have to be on to use them. Reporting back isn't going to change any of that.
I read that part as marketing hype. Still, it's a good idea.
John
Paging Al Qaida! (Score:1, Troll)
For that matter, I've been wondering when someone would jam EZ-Pass one afternoon and turn Manhattan into solid gridlock.
swedish research project (Score:1)
How does this save energy? (Score:3, Insightful)
I can see the usefulness of doing these things in terms of fewer breakdowns, but where is the energy-saving tie in, particularly the claim that the sensor system will "increase a motor's efficiency by 10 to 20 percent" ???
Reality sets in (Score:1)
Other than those motors that people forget to shutoff. But if that's the case, why aren't they controlled by a PLC already?
This network would (hopefully) only be used to annunciate faults/transmit data. They wouldn't be used for control of the equipment (that is until some smooth-talking salesman convinced some idiot to do so). So cracking into the network with dreams of pulling a "Suki" would be a
Re:Reality sets in (Score:2)
I agree and I'll add this little tidbit of data: The motor needs to be wired anyway. The electricity has to get in there somehow. Why not standardize on a fiber connector and an ASIC powered off of a CT in the peckerhead?
Geeze. It's not the cost of the wire, folks, It's the labor you spend pulling it.