Dell fights Alien Invasion 274
Asakawa writes "With manufacturers like Alienware and Voodoo sucking up the low-volume/high-margin high-end gaming market, it looks like Dell wants a piece of the action. The machine that these guys have reviewed looks pretty awesome, but they reckon it's overpriced. It will be interesting to see if Dell can shake off its grey box image and entice the more fussy gamers and enthusias."
Low volume high margin? (Score:5, Funny)
Clones (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Clones (Score:2)
The gaming "laptops" are almost as bad too, running 3.2GHz PIVs when they can't run for an hour on batteries.
Re:Clones (Score:3, Informative)
Every time I look at the Alienware systems and associated prices, I have got to wonder if maybe I'm missing something.
Take their Area-51 - a P4 2.8GHz with HT, 1G DDR pc3200, 80G SATA, sound and a GeForce 5750. $1814.
I just built a new box specifically to run Doom 3 on, got a Dell 400sc for $450 (P4 2.8GHz w HT), added a Gig of DDR pc3200 for $160, dropped in a GeForce FX5900se I got on sale for about $150. Top it off with a seat of X
The question is.... (Score:2, Funny)
(FP!)
Too little, too late (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too little, too late (Score:4, Insightful)
Low number of sales isn't a problem at all. As it says above "low volume/high margin high-end gaming market". You don't need to sell a lot of units to make as much as you do selling lots of low profit margin budget PCs.
The high margin is very attractive to Dell, because profit margins seem to be continually decreasing on most computer systems sold. Profit margins for gaming systems only seem to be going up as gamers expect more in the way of extra stuff that most buyers simply don't care about, like case mods and LED lighting. Why would there be nothing to gain from controlling a highly profitable and expanding new market? I would say there is PROFIT to be gained, and the possibility of much more profit ahead.
Of course part of the reason why the prices for gaming PCs is so high is the very label of the seller. Alienware and Voodoo are well known for the quality/performance of their machines among the gamers you'd meet at a LAN party. Dell... not so much.
Pricing (Score:2, Insightful)
Inspiron XPS (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Inspiron XPS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Inspiron XPS (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Inspiron XPS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Inspiron XPS (Score:2)
But what about reliablility? (Score:2)
Also, is there any reason to completely fill up the RAM slots with 256Mb DIMMs when 512MB are easily available? This makes it harder to upgrade.
Re:But what about reliablility? (Score:2)
Nonstandard PSU: Looks like an ATX unit but can't be exchanged with them.
Heavy - but that could also be read as well-built
Some of them use IBM Deskstar (Deathstar) hard drives which have comparatively poor reliability. When Maxtor drives are so cheap, there's really no excuse for this.
The nice thing about these machines is that all the drivers for them
2x256 cheaper then 1x512 (Score:4, Informative)
That is why dell is so looked down upon. If you ever have to work with them you just know you are dealing wich a "company/piece of hardware" were everything was done by the lowest bidder. Such tricks as finding out a 128mb machine had all its memories slots full (wich as you say makes it harder and more expensive to upgrade). Finding out that for some unspeakable reason yes this PC comes with only 1 IDE slot. That the case size means no expansion card fits.
It is not that Dell actually makes bad stuff. Just that if you are used to make your own cages or worse IBM style hardware Dell feels cheap. The biggest problem is that they feel cheap but often really aren't. If you buy your dell as is and never ever touch its insides then it is a decent enough deal. Else just don't. Friends don't let friends dell.
Re:2x256 cheaper then 1x512 (Score:3, Informative)
You've basically described the lowest-end Dimension machine. Move up into OptiPlex land and things get considerably better.
I've used Dells in every office I've worked, and been glad I did. I've recommended Dells to friends at home, and been glad I did.
I am NOT one to be a mindless shill for anybody, but my experience with Dell systems has been far more positive than negative.
Dude... you're getting a booby trap (Score:2)
Re:2x256 cheaper then 1x512 (Score:2, Informative)
Filling more memory slots with a single memory controller will actually increase latencies and slow your memory performance - it won't suddenly talk to all the chips at once.
What you may be thinking of is dual-channel motherboards like the nForce - these have separate memory controllers, both talking to each DIMM independently and then combining the results.
They're not gonna get any action... (Score:4, Informative)
Oh come on (Score:4, Insightful)
For one thing, computers that can play Doom III and the like at higher than 1280x1024 are not expected to exist until sometime in the 24th century.
For another, there are several things that make serious gaming waaay more enjoyable than straight-out resolution, including graphics card quality settings and refresh rate. Most decent monitors will still start to lose refresh rate above 1024x768... if you want anything close to 85-100Hz at higher than 1280x1024 you are talking about insanely expensive equipement.
IMHO most modern games are best played at 1024x768 on a decent gaming rig. You get beautifully high frame rates, and with a decent video card you can have all the quality settings absolutely cranked, whilst running at 100Hz or higher on your monitor to go extra easy on the eyes.
Anyone who claims they 'need' much higher resolutions is full of it.
Re:Oh come on (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh come on (Score:2)
Modern laptop's now come with desktop quality texture mapping technology that can do at least 60Hz (that's how fast the LCD refreshes). The actual rendering speed is dependent upon window size, but a full-screen size the rendering rate is always above this. Maybe by the end of the year, the next-generation standard of removable graphics cards will be out and laptops will keep pace with desktop systems. The only thing I fear will be the size of the mai
Re:Oh come on (Score:4, Informative)
Sniped... (Score:2)
Of course that person who's "full of it" will be able to see you from further away due to his better resolution. But hey, your death will look really nice on your screen with all the quality setting cranked.
I imagine there are gamers out there who would play in black and white if they could get double the resolution.
Re:Oh come on (Score:2)
Most decent monitors will still start to lose refresh rate above 1024x768... if you want anything close to 85-100Hz at higher than 1280x1024 you are talking about insanely expensive equipement.
quote
my sony 21 inch will run 2048 x 1536 at those refresh rates, it cost me less than a top end gfx card.
not everyone pays top dollar through migh margin outlets that blow megabucks on advertising.
Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:5, Interesting)
Dell can want to sell me a machine all they want, but they won't get my business because:
* The quality of their support has fallen through the floor due to offshore outsourcing it (the non-business support, at least).
* They don't give me the option of buying computers built on AMD CPUs, which have a better price/performance ratio than Intel CPUs.
* In most cases, they still force me to buy their systems bundled with Microsoft software, whether I want it or not.
Sorry, Dell. No sale here.
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:2, Insightful)
Have you seen many high-end gaming systens running Linux? This isn't the free-as-in-beer or free-as-in-freedom market.
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:2)
Actually I get really high framerates in ut2004, considering I have a MX440 and my 2500+ is "only" overclocked to 2255Mhz...
As soon as doom3 for linux comes out :P (Score:2)
Then again Doom3 ain't even out here yet. Grrrrr. Forcing me to pirate when I got the money itching in my pocket. Wasn't there a recent article about how game publishers are greater enemies of games then pirates? Certainly is true for Doom 3. I have the money, I got the machine but ID ain't selling. So I gotta a choice. Wait to spend money while everyone is getting Doom 3 goodness OR get Doom 3 goodness for free. I held out for a week. I caved in yesterday. Now just waiting for it to become dark again so I
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:2)
Have you seen many high-end gaming systens running Linux? This isn't the free-as-in-beer or free-as-in-freedom market.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe I already own a Windows license and don't want to be forced to buy another one?
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:4, Funny)
I want my super-upber-high-end gaming PC to ship with Linux so I can stress it its limits with the absolute latest, bleeding edge, hard core Linux based games...
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:3, Insightful)
You left out:
Deliberately breaking standards for no good reason.
Need to replace the power supply in a Dell box?
Better buy it from Dell for a hefty markup or you just might toast your motherboard.
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:2)
>Deliberately breaking standards for no good reason.
>Need to replace the power supply in a Dell box?
>Better buy it from Dell for a hefty markup or you just might toast your motherboard.
That's not true.
Because of cost issues, OEM manufacturers make desktop cases and power supplies small and non-standard.
My IBM Aptiva and another brand name desktop also couldn't use "standard" parts, but that's reasonable.
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:3, Informative)
Because of cost issues, OEM manufacturers make desktop cases and power supplies small and non-standard.
Actually it's 100% true.
Do some research next time. Dell has used STANDARD ATX CONNECTORS WITH NON-STANDARD PINOUTS!
That doesn't save cost OR space.
Here's one link. [upgradinga...ingpcs.com]
I'm sure google can find you many more.
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:2)
Odd, I recently bought several Dell servers that came with Redhat pre-installed.
But for desktops, I'm afraid the choices are XP Pro or XP Home. AT least according to their web site.
Re:Sorry, Dell. No sale here. (Score:2)
Hmm - according to Newegg:
Athlon 64 3400+ retail - $305
Intel P4 3.4GHz retail - $416
Doesn't look the same to me. 32-bit wise they are quite comparable in performance, and at 64-bit the Intel chip isn't even an opti
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Gamers want... (Score:4, Funny)
Gamers want the best - and right now that's AMD Athlon 64 (FX). Until Dell has that, they're stuff looks rather Dull. ;-)
Re:Gamers want... (Score:2)
sorry, "their" (just trying to forestall grammar nazis;). And yeah, it really should be "it's" I suppose...
Re:Gamers want... (Score:2)
Re:Gamers want... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Dell's reputation is for black boxes, and they've shaken that off by making this one blue...
From the review: "The power button sits impressively in the top right hand corner and moodily glows yellow when switched on."
Okay, very nice. Looks exactly like a normal dell case to me, complete with the silly front-panel door that always falls off, the interior layout set in stone, with the assumption that nothing will ever be replaced inside, and the 2-man-lift bulk of a computer so large it doesn't fit in any normal location. I never noticed how 'moody' the power lights were before though. Presumably I should be downright spooked by seeing 20 of them illuminating us at work.
It's an interesting review, with no mention of anything important. Do we really care how smart and silvery the Dell logo is, when the technical aspect of this review is limited to mentioning the CPU speed, and the name of the graphics card?
From what I know of Alien invasions... (Score:2, Funny)
Oooh! A it's like a Lamborghini made by Yugo! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oooh! A it's like a Lamborghini made by Yugo! (Score:2)
Their market is the uninformed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Their market is the uninformed. (Score:2)
Usually, a homebuilt gamer's computer for those with big bank accounts comes down to this:
1. High-quality system case with a 400-450 watt dual-fan power supply and at least 2-3 system case fans.
2. Top-quality motherboard running Athlon 64 FX or high-end Pentium 4 CPU's. Motherboard will have multiple USB 2.0 ports and at least one IEEE-1394 port along with
Re:Their market is the uninformed. (Score:3, Insightful)
12. 17" to 21" Sony Trinitron display. show me a gamer with an LCD and I'll show you an easy frag.
Re:Their market is the uninformed. (Score:2)
Kept my DVD/CD burners, one HD, my case and all of its fans, cooling gizmos, lights, bells whistles. Kept my old IBM keyboard (yeah, its old!), kept my mouse, kept my monitor...
Basically 250 for a mobo, 300 for the AMD, and 300 for the 9800. or 850, all total. Granted I still need a new sound card.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bad Priorities (Score:2)
Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:5, Informative)
and now you have a decent OS.
Re:Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:3, Funny)
-Breakout
-Super Breakout
-Photoshop
Befor ya'll go crazy, now, remember; I'm a Mac user too
Re:Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:2)
Re:Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:3, Interesting)
-Breakout
-Super Breakout
-Photoshop
The Mac doesn't have anywhere near as many games as the PC, and they're usually released later... But the Mac DOES HAVE GAMES. A lot of them, and a lot of great ones. On my G5's hard drive right now:
Battlefield 1942
Call of Duty
Medal of Honor
Halo
Black Hawk Down
America's Army
Command and Conquer Generals
Tron 2.0
Tropico
Warcraft 3
Unreal Tournament 2004
Neverwinter Nights
Iceland Dale
Dungeo
Re:Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:2)
Re:Even the G5 is cheaper ! (Score:2)
The fact that the software isn't available on the G5 is even more in its advantage, since they can not sell in large quantities to the gaming masses to push the price down.
conclusions
Re:Cheaper is meaningless if it doesn't do the tas (Score:2)
I was actually going to make a similar point, which is that Alienware and other companies make their machines better. Just to point out
Prices of computer hardware in England (Score:3, Interesting)
This isn't the first time I've noticed this absurdity - I've read reviews of English kit before, and it's always ludicriously overpriced. Hardware sellers are making a killing off of the lot of you.
English slashdotters, is there some sort of law or something that says you HAVE to buy computer stuff in the UK? Seriously, just buy all your computer stuff from the US, but buy an English AC adapter and an English keyboard that actually has the pound key on it. You'll save a ton of money.
Re:Prices of computer hardware in England (Score:2)
The English are crazy (Score:2)
I have lived in the UK briefly, and EVERYTHING is horrendously overpriced, excepting maybe chocolate for some weird reason. The strangest part is that noone complains about it - they just seem to accept it.
Even weirder, wages are really not proportionally higher compared to the cost of living. A lot of A
Re:The English are crazy (Score:2)
Here's the Economist's Big Mac [economist.com] index, which compares the price of a Big Mac in various countries, in an attempt to discover which currencies were overvalued.
It costs the equivalent of $US 3.37 to purchase the hamburger in Britain, but only $US2.27 in Australia. The US price was $US 2.90.
Re:Prices of computer hardware in England (Score:5, Informative)
The problem in the UK is two things. First of all, we have to pay import duty on anything manufactured abroad (+0% to +85%). Then, we also have to pay VAT (+17.5%). Then there's the middle man tax for the company that's doing the importing, and warehouse storage. Not forgetting the high price of petrol which means that transporting anything becomes increasingly more expensive the further away you are from London. Deliveries in the Greater London area are usually offered "same day", while it can take three days to get to the North of England.
Details can be found at Rip-Off UK [rip-off.co.uk].
The combination of the high rates of taxation, and the rapid change of hardware has forced people to become cost-conscious about buying computers. Web based suppliers like Dabs.com are usually the first place people look when comparing prices. Nobody in their right mind is going to waste 400 pounds (600 dollars) on VAT, for a 1600 pound system, if they can help it.
The only people I know who are buying from Dell are the university departments when making a bulk order with educational discounts for a new computer lab.
Re:Prices of computer hardware in England (Score:2)
But that's the price they choose to pay. In exchange
Well it all depends on how social you are (Score:2)
Sadly of late that argument is loosing weight as we keep the high taxes but most of the social services are hollowed out to american levels. So no free health care but still the high mandatory taxes for it. Less schooling and more and more money needed to be paid by students. Higher and higher sales taxes coupled with greater reductions in social security.
At least in america it seems you get an anti-social society but low taxes. Here we g
Re:Well it all depends on how social you are (Score:2)
Social Darwinism. Fuck them. If you can't get an education, why should soceity support you while your reproduce your defunct genes? If you can't get or keep a job, that does not automatically entitle you to my money that I worked for.
Reward the smart, punish the stupid.
Actually, I think social services are a good thing. If a family has no money, they can't buy my products. If they do have money, they'll spend it. Giving Bill G
Re:Prices of computer hardware in England (Score:2)
Old... (Score:4, Informative)
Why is this a growing market segment? (Score:2)
Clearly I'm not the desired buyer, but where is the attractive aspect to these deals that I'm just not seeing?
Not Lazy (Score:2)
Something equally interesting (Score:5, Funny)
It will be interesting to see how long it takes CmdrTaco to learn to spell "its".
comparison to a car? (Score:2)
It's fine to spend $3K+ on a PC, but be prepared for the $500 PC I buy in 18 months to outperform it, no matter how fancy the case is.
Actually... (Score:2)
Why? Because the graphics will be so much weaker. Also, the processor will only be a speed grade or two faster.
Re:Actually... (Score:2)
OT: That's the *THIRD* Alien Invasion ... (Score:4, Funny)
First was this one on CNN. [cnn.com]
And now another here on slashdot.
Someone would say there must be some sort of psy-ops going on, to soften us up for the headlines
Doin' It On The Cheap (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't really clear who they plan to sell XPS systems to. The hardcore market, as others here have commented, would likely build their own machines with higher performance for the same or less cost than the XPS. That leaves what I'll call the Mom and Pop market buying computers for their kids. This market might buy the XPS, but would be scared off by such a pricey machine that would probably be used to play games rather than doing homework. The kids would have to push them to buy this, and well, Dell just isn't cool right now (Apple is!). So I guess Dell needs to bring back that stoner dude to rev up those back to school sales!
Re:Doin' It On The Cheap (Score:2)
Cheaper idea for the hardcore gamer. (Score:2)
No big loss for Dell (Score:2)
Uhhh.. (Score:2, Insightful)
How odd... (Score:2)
Screw em (Score:3, Informative)
Like they phased out linux service. I bought this in the U.S. and came to Japan, they wouldn't fix it here. Can't easily get a Japanese windows unless you go through the Japan office. Fine. Wiped most of windows, linux on here. Had to figure out all the hardware crap myself. Haven't got enough memory on this and don't want to send it in for a month, find that too. Broken battery (probably due to lugging it through town on wheels), little help. Now if Dell can give me top products at a reasonable price (and this *was* pc of the year some years ago), I'll buy it. But when the only part of their online service I find interesting is the refurbished parts catalog. Oh yeah, if you want to look for parts on line forget it, you end up wading through refurbished instead. When I bought this I was told to wait for a big HD to come out, well I never got it for the second bay because it was never in stock, then got dumped apparently. Now I am looking at new computers. I need a desktop pc and I want a system with high performance opengl (I'm not a gamer, I want to make displays). I'm thinking seriously about getting a G5, though it may soon be supplemented with an Alienware laptop which I've been drooling over. Before I buy those two though I'll 90% likely be building a linux box for myself. For me Dell has to seriously shake off an old bad service image and a new bad quality image. It's not like they don't have competition.
Re:Screw em (Score:2)
Now if they came out with a competitive box suitable for high-end 3D graphics simulation (i.e. CAD, astronomy, art displays, video conferencing) say something that SGI would be proud to have, with RAID 5 controller, and put a 5 YEAR WARRANTY on all parts, then I would consider it very seriously against say a G5 or any other machine. S
This is not to compete with Alienware (Score:2)
This is for when mommy wants to buy 15 year old Johnny a Dell and Johnny wants "That one! It's the only one good enough for the games!"
Dimension XPS and my Girlfriend (Score:5, Interesting)
My girlfriend moved in (shocking, i know) with a hobbled together PC, same way i do mine - buy mobo-proc combo, case with decent psu, some video card that works with the mobo and some ram from crucial.
i normally repeat this cycle about meh, once every 2 years (recently graduated computer engineering student) and it worked out okay, but both of our machines always suffered from the old, *something* has gone wrong and died all the sudden.
With just one real workstation at any time to mess with for many years, i didn't mind all that much. Well, with two of them in house pulling that crap - it seemed like every month, i was buying some new component for either her pc or mine. It was getting old.
She scored a few contracts for her art (the Papa Roach cd and a slew of Brit albums from various artists that will hit soon have her stuff on them). Well, it was time to get a real machine. i wanted her to get a dual g5, but she wanted to stick with windows for all of her art software and plugins (well over $4k of x86 only stuff). Soooooo, we got her one of these...and here is the point of this post:
Blah, blah, blah as you will about Dell-this and Dell-that - i've not had *one* problem with that machine. i'll remind you, she is not doing light weight work. Not one problem. Er, and it kicks some serious ass with ut2k4 i might add
Forgot... (Score:2)
i do have to chuckle though, the p133 with 64megs that serves as the firewall? Can't even remember the last time i rebooted that machine, much less opened it up to fix anything. An old Gateway, but still chugging away.
Front door (Score:2)
Re:Front door (Score:2)
Cheap plastic! (Score:2, Interesting)
Uhh, the cheap looks are horrible.
Crappy cabling all over the place in spite of clips & belts (uh, but perhaps it's UV ready right!?).
Breathing power switch done wrong (they understood it backwards, it's distracting... ask the Apple designers)
A lot of fans! Hmm, helicopter or whisper? They look like off the mill beigebox fan, one can only hope the motherboard supports speed scaling like that other PeeCee [apple.com] would-(rather not)-be ;-)
Oh well, I'll continue lusting for that G5... wake me up when a PC manu
Typical Crap (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems like some clueless executive has seen an opportunity to reap big profits and has quickly slapped some crap together to cash in.
Summary: Has all the class and style of one of those people you see walking around with the no-name cheap asian iPod-styled flash-based MP3 players with white headphones.
their target market (Score:2)
Alienware crap (Score:3, Interesting)
First, they say the graphics card I selected which guaranteed an August 6th ship date became limited availability which would delay my order. So since time is of the essence (I need it at home before I go to school to transfer a LOT of files) I switched cards to a better one, which was NOT limited now (it had been when I first configured my system) and now they're saying it MAY ship on the 9th or 10th.
On top of that Alienware had offered us a $150 rebate. Then, on the order confirmation they say its only $75. We bitch and complain, and they finally get us the $75 rebate, and a $75 coupon for Amazon, which, while we use it extensively and will have no problem with that....is STILL a very bad business practice.
Its at the point where if it doesn't ship via next day ground service at their expense, we just may well cancel the order and tell them we're getting a Dell instead.
And a tip for buying from Alienware: If you don't care about a flashy case, check out their small business computers. They're just about the same specs, and a LOT less expensive.
Dell's way of selling (Score:3, Insightful)
But the trouble is then, the competition has vanished. There's no way you can ask someone else for an offer on Dell than your Dell account manager.
So, as an IT manager you really need to stay in check with technical developments, realism and pricing in the rest of the market since Dell will try to upsell you all kinds of crap for a premium when you don't really need it.
Dell, not a cheap as you'd think!
Re:EOD: End of Dell? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, kinda like how Apple moved into the music biz with the iPod and ITMS, 'cause they've been dying for, what, 10 years now?
And how exactly is Dells' attempts to break into a niche market a sign that their consumer products are going the way of the dinosaurs? Didn't they dominate the market last quarter?
Now, to be sure, your comment is true for certain businesses, like Gateway, but I doubt that it applies to
Re:EOD: End of Dell? (Score:3, Insightful)
Pleeeze....
Re:Cripes, enough fans in the back? (Score:3, Interesting)
Dell uses nice and quiet temperature controlled fans in most of its systems. When the system isn't too busy, they spin slowly; when things start getting hot they spin up and can get rather loud, but still not annoyingly so.
Dells prices may be a bit high, but I love their cooling systems. Top notch efficient design. Yo