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Displays Technology

No Sony OLED Displays In 2004 63

Posted by timothy from the hang-onto-your-saliva dept.
Anonymous Howard writes "Designtechnica is reporting that Sony will not introduce any OLED displays in 2004 as previously anticipated. Sony was planning on producing 300,000 2-inch OLED panels per month for its portable devices such as DSCs (digital still cameras) and PDAs. Surprisingly, there have only been a handful of products out that use OLED displays; Samsung has a cell phone and MSI has an MP3 player, for example."
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No Sony OLED Displays In 2004 More

No Sony OLED Displays In 2004

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  • Pioneer (Score:2, Informative)

    by Jhawkeye83 ( 615484 )
    I've had a pioneer CD Deck for my car for almost 2 years now that has OLED

  • Cost of OLEDs (Score:1, Insightful)

    by sethstorm ( 512897 )
    The barrier to use of the OLED's is really the cost compared to conventional LCD's, and that also counts that OLED's have somewhat of a lessened life to them. Once they get this down, then you'll probably see more on the bandwagon for OLED (If they can be made to last at least 30 years, you can at least be competitive with conventional LCD with durability as well as price).
    • 30 years seems a bit excessive, I'd imagine 20 years would be plenty, and 10 for cheaper items?

    • Re:Cost of OLEDs (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:36PM (#9727220)
      You're right about the lessened life compared to LCDs, but you're wrong about the production cost. OLEDs are cheaper to produce than LCDs, this is a known fact.

      There is also many other advantages compared to LCDs; Organic light emitting diodes are self-emitting and don't require a backlight, they're brighter and require less power than LCD displays. They can also be read from a much wider viewing angle than LCDs, and they can even be made on plastic instead of glass.

      I sure enjoy the OLED display on my mobile phone :)

      - A lazy AC

      • Re:Cost of OLEDs (Score:5, Informative)

        by mobby_6kl ( 668092 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:57PM (#9727304)
        OLED displays can also support much higher (than LCD) refresh rates. Because there is no backlight, when a pixel is black it it really black so the contrast is also much higher.
        30 years if of course too much, LCDs dont last that long and about 5 years should be good enough. Keep in mind that they do not die the day they turn 5 y.o., they just lose some of the brightness/contrast.
      • "I sure enjoy the OLED display on my mobile phone :)"

        How noticable is the difference? I ask because I have a Motorola phone with a surprisingly bright and colorful screen. The only nitpick I have is that it's not a very wide angle screen. But since it's a cell phone..

        Anyway, just curious what surprises you encountered with this screen.

      • Re:Cost of OLEDs (Score:3, Informative)

        by pslam ( 97660 )
        There is also many other advantages compared to LCDs; Organic light emitting diodes are self-emitting and don't require a backlight, they're brighter and require less power than LCD displays.

        The OLED panels I've played with have all been far lower power than an LCD with the backlight turned on, but that's not a fair comparison for some products. For example, MP3 players can get away with turning the backlight off in many cases. An LCD with the backlight turned off takes almost no power. This "idle" state

      • Sadly, this is not yet true. If all things were equal, then OLEDs are simpler to make, and would be cheaper. LCD manufacturers, however, have become astoundlingly good at making panels (the newest generation processes glass that's over 2m in diagonal!). OLEDs are not so mature, and manufacturers have to throw away lots of defective panels. Higher throughput, and better yield, means that for many years to come complicated LCDs will be cheaper than simpler OLEDs.

    • Re:Cost of OLEDs (Score:2, Insightful)

      by laing ( 303349 )
      30 years is nuts. We don't even know if LCD or TFT displays will last that long since they haven't been around even half that time.

      I think once they can produce OLED cells that last more than about 5 years on average, you'll see them go mainstream. Anything less than that could end up costing the manufacturer big in terms of warranty obligations.

  • The answer is probably in the article (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:26PM (#9727168)
    the panels still have a shorter life span than TFT LCD panels

    and my guess is, they rushed their mass production announcement before doing the QA for full PR effect, and the stress-tests showed the shorter life span to be quite dramatically shorter than expected.

  • Links links....where are the links!? (Score:5, Informative)

    by ProfessionalCookie ( 673314 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:27PM (#9727169) Journal
    Such as MSI's MP3 Player [designtechnica.com] and Samsung's Cell Phone [newworldtelnet.com].

    Come on folks- this is the internet.

    On a side note- I dare you to /. my .sig :)

  • Kodak uses OLED (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SuperRob ( 31516 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:29PM (#9727186) Homepage
    All of Kodak's digital cameras are using OLED screens. They're probably the biggest shipper of OLED screens right now, but people always forget about them.

    Well take a look at one of their screens, and you won't forget. They're GORGEOUS!

    • best not forget... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Animaether ( 411575 )
      ...because in a relatively short time, that gorgeous picture will have faded considerably.

      They're making great advances in battling this problem, thankfully. In addition, Kodak does offer a full warranty (last I checked) on the digital display components.
    • Not all of them, but some of the new ones. The LS 633 was the first to ship with an OLED. Sadly Kodak didn't sell it in the US. I've played with the 633 though, the screen is awesome. (I'm a camera tech at their US repair depot.)

  • OLED - technology definition (Score:5, Informative)

    by syrinje ( 781614 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:35PM (#9727209)
    For those of you who RTFA and are still left mumbling "what the heck is an OLED.." here it is OLED is an Electroluminescent display technology. It is cnsidered one of the most promising emerging display technologies and exploits ultrathin films of organic compounds, either small molecules or polymers, which emit light (luminescence) when subjected to a voltage. These organic light-emitting diodes (OLEDs) produce bright, lightweight displays. A number of small independent firms in Europe and the US have been developing devices based on various luminescent molecules.

    On a related note, in its 2004 MiniDV camcorders of the HC-XX series Sony claims to use a "Hybrid LCD display" which is claimed to perform significantly better than the regular LCD screens it renders obsolete (like the one in my 2003 MiniDV). I tried to find out what Hybrid meant and failed - what is the big secret I wonder...

  • As long as it isn't passed over... (Score:5, Informative)

    by geschild ( 43455 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:40PM (#9727237) Homepage

    ... Because of vested interests.

    OLED holds many promises because it is, as the name indicates, a LED type of display. In other words, you don't block/filter an underlying lightsource like with LCD-type screens. Every pixel itself emits light. This makes for better image quality at higher resolution and less power consumption plus, as a bonus, no vulnerable, ill-distrubuted central light-source.

    Once (if?) the optimal solution is found to creating the seperate Organic colors reliably (and currently the biggest problem: durably) OLED should overtake all other techniques. Especially since some production techniques currently being pioneered do not have an inherent limitation to the substrate size (read: Mega sized displayes at Giga resolutions, ultraflat, high light-output and low power...).

    I say should because LCD is currently the entrenched technique and I don't think all investments have been recoverd yet. The question then becomes: is the best (cheapest to produce) OLED solution being brought forward by a current player with LCD 'capital' to defend or an outsider? If the latter, OLED has a fighting chance, if the former, we'll have to see if several producers have competing designs to make OLED still take off. A lot of money has gone into those factories, and even if they are relatively easily converted to OLED, most companies don't jump for joy at the prospect of destroying existing investments for a newer technology. (Or any new investments for that matter ;D)

    Recouping costs may hold OLED back more than any technological hurdle, I'm sorry to say.

    • Nomination for tin-foil hat of the day. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @06:23PM (#9727459) Journal
      First of oled are not yet perfected, secondly all the companies are bitterly fighting with each other. Products being held back can only happen in relatively static conditions where all the players have a intrest in maintaining the current balance.

      In electronics there is no such interest. The market for displaying things is huge. More and more things around the house have displays and who ever can make the cheapest/nicest can have a significant advantage.

      But for now LCD is not yet dead. The screen size of oled is still low (sure it is going up but so is lcd). What you are suggesting is that the CRT was holding back the LCD. Or the tv industry the computer screen or the paper/dotmatrix industry the tv-screen industry.

      Just because sony is having troubles doesn't mean oled isn't happening. As others have pointed out there are plenty of devices out there. I remember when camera's came with CRT viewers instead of the new fangled LCD. Nothing stopped the LCD except the tech and nothing will stop OLED except the tech. To many players who would love to get the holy grail of a cheap clear brilliant display.

      • Comparing the shift from CRT to LCD with the shift from LCD to OLED is nonsensical. CRT wasn't just an aged technology when LCD finally was easy enough to produce and reliable enough for greater use, it was positively ancient. It was time for something new. LCD was dramatically more different from CRT than LCD is from OLED in almost every aspect and so it had an easy 'in' in the market when it arrived.

        Not so with OLED. OLED has many of the same characteristics of LCD, but it enhances on them. Not a radical

  • too many LCD screens to sell (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    there was an article on Bloomberg TV's asia market report the other day stating that there is a massive overproduction of LCD's and buyers are not buying so prices will fall as a result
    good news for LCD buyers but bad for those of us waiting for mass produced OLED's
    gotta buy the old stock before getting the new as usual and the less you buy the cheaper its gonna get for LCD's (forget plasma as it degrades dramatically in 3years)

  • LG Phones (Score:4, Interesting)

    by halo1982 ( 679554 ) * on Saturday July 17, 2004 @05:57PM (#9727302) Homepage Journal
    Many of LG's cell phones use the same OLED display. The VX6000, VX5550 the LG 4600 (Telus) and a ton of them in Korean markets. Also Samsungs E715, the upcomming i550 use OLEDs for the outer displays. If you've seen an OLED display you know how attractive and sharp they look, its quite different from an LCD. They also have a very nice expanded viewing angle. Hopefully late this year and next year there will be phones with full color OLEDs as displays.
    • i thought the VX6000 only used the OLED display for the outside display? visable when clamshell phone is closed, not a color display..... used as callerID, clock etc.....

      i might be wrong, but i am pretty sure only the one is OLED. the shorter lifespan when compared to LCDs seems fine for a cell phone (if cost is ok) since people generally upgrade their cell phones much faster than their digital cameras of personal computers. i guess it also uses a good bit less power...... always nice for cell phones.
      • i thought the VX6000 only used the OLED display for the outside display? visable when clamshell phone is closed, not a color display..... used as callerID, clock etc.....

        Yes you're right, its only on the outer LCDs (right now) the insides are TFTs or STNs or others (which I forgot to mention)

  • Vested Interest in not using OLED (Score:3, Interesting)

    by syslog ( 535048 ) <naeem AT bari DOT cc> on Saturday July 17, 2004 @06:10PM (#9727366)
    Sony just sank a huge amount of cash in building a new LCD plant with Samsung. Why would they want to promote OLED? This was in the news all over the place in the last couple of days.



    naeem

    • "Sony just sank a huge amount of cash in building a new LCD plant with Samsung. Why would they want to promote OLED? This was in the news all over the place in the last couple of days."

      I'm not claiming to be an expert on this topic, but wasn't one of the big selling points of OLED technology that current LCD facilities could be upgraded to handle it relatively cheaply?

      Not sure if I'm right on that or not, but Sony has demonstrated that they are interested in having a kick ass display. Go see their ultra
    • So what? LCD will become the CRT-style display in the future - OLED will then take the place of what a LCD display was like when everyone had TFTs, a luxury. Then the prices will start coming down until they have replaced LCDs and the next wave of technology will start.

      My god, I love capitalism.

      One intresting side of this 'Fire and Motion' is that films look more and more outdated even quicker. Before, it took 5-10 years for your average film to look really outdated when it came to computers, now it's tak

      • Re:Vested Interest in not using OLED (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Look at the stupid films in the late 90s with their CRT displays ;).

        My favorite example of future monitors is 2010, with the monitor (in Dr. Chandra's office, IIRC. It's been a while though) with a case the size of a modern-day 22" CRT, but with a visible area of about 12" and a resolution of maybe 40x40. :) Yeah, not much they could do about the resolution and screen size considering the tech at the time, but the huge fucking box around it? Whose idea was that?

        A funny thing about late 90s movies and mo

        • A funny thing about late 90s movies and monitors: in a firefight, the LCDs never get hit. Every CRT in the room can get shot, but the LCDs go unscratched. Not surprising from a financial standpoint, since old, broken, or otherwise explosion-worthy CRTs are a dime a dozen and LCDs aren't, but it's still amusing to see the aftermath of an office fight scene with bits of computer shrapnel all over and one lone, unharmed LCD standing in the middle of it.

          Cute, that. I'll have to watch for that.

          I'm thinking
        • It's actually true as well... if you ever see 'Walking Tall', it has the whole room TOTALLY shot to peices, apart from one LCD display. lollerskates or what!
  • with lcds falling 20% by year end it will be hard to compete... linkaroo: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=tech nologyNews&storyID=5675145 [reuters.com]

  • Sure OLED's are showing up on phones and cameras... but what I'm really waiting for is the big stuff. I'm talking 42", 50" and 60"!

    Plasma just isn't dropping in price fast enough and I'm concerned about it's limited life. Now if I can get an OLED flat panel display for say a couple hundred bucks... I'd even be willing to replace it every five to ten years at that price.

    • Re:Two inches? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Plasma just isn't dropping in price fast enough and I'm concerned about it's limited life.

      Um, OLEDs also have a limited life.

      (Although hopefully the price would be low enough that you could indeed afford to replace it every few years. But such a hassle!)

  • roentgen (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sstory ( 538486 ) on Saturday July 17, 2004 @08:41PM (#9728156) Homepage
    Whatever happened to the IBM Roentgen?
    • Whatever happened to the IBM Roentgen?

      IBM article about the IBM Roentgen [ibm.com] That was LCD technology, and the big deal at the time was they were first to get to 200dpi (previous record was the Monet at 157dpi). It's 2,560 x 2,048 pixels and 16.3" diagonally, dot pitch of around 0.127mm. At one point, it was supposed to end up in ThinkPad laptops. (Wish I had one for my laptop!)

      However, I don't know that anyone sells it (can't find anything).

      Other alternative:

      ViewSonic Vp2290b 22.2 in LCD Monitor
      38
      • P.S.: IBM also makes a hi-res LCD display:

        IBM 9503DG3 22.2 in LCD FLAT PANEL Monitor
        3840 x 2400 Pixels - Sku: 9503DG3

        Pricing is pretty much the same as the ViewSonic.

  • No OLED displays in 2004 not even in...Japan.
  • I've been hunting for OLED displays for a prototype that needs the low power and extended temperature range (LCD displays are useless below about 10-20 C, unless they have special fluid, which takes them down to around 0 C), and there isn't much out there. Pacific Display Devices [pacificdisplay.com] is about the only supplier I found where an order for just a couple of displays wouldn't be met with gales of laughter or spittle. Anyone know of any others?
  • No news for Nerds?
  • OLEDs are getting pretty big right now though I admit they are only prototypes - http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/showArticle.jhtml? articleID=20600073 [eetimes.com]

    The durability will be overcome, I remember when labs were first playing around with the idea of OLEDs and they only had green colours and lasted for only 100hrs. Now the red and green last well into 20000 hrs it is just the blue that is failing to get up to spec. Last I heard they were just about to achieve 10000 on the blue - almost getting up to a usefu

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