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Portables Hardware

Sony VAIO U50 Reviewed In Depth 145

Posted by timothy from the not-a-budget-pda dept.
LabRat007 writes "PDA Buyer's Guide reviews the Sony VAIO U50/U70, the hybrid PC/PDA that has beaten both the FlipStart and OQO to market. The short version? They like it, but it's too expensive. Editor in Chief Lisa Gade provides the typically in-depth review, with pictures and words and everything." The design looks great, but the price -- yow!
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Sony VAIO U50 Reviewed In Depth More

Sony VAIO U50 Reviewed In Depth

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  • Is't the best technology expensive?

    • Re:"but it's too expensive." (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Trent05 ( 70375 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:00AM (#9427926) Homepage
      Is't the best technology expensive?

      Yes, but here you are also paying heavy for the name. Which makes no sense since I doubt Sony makes there own boards and a lot of other hardware is most likely made by other manufacturers. With laptops and PDAs being relatively cheap nowdays, I'm curious if they'll sell enough to make a profit at a $2,000 price point.
      • It's not the name, but the weak US dollar which is the culprit here.

        In Yen the U50 is Y178500 and the U70 is Y210000

        Fortunately for me my base currency is UK pounds and I live in Japan so I am laughing all the way from the Bank to Akiharibara.

      • Cheaper ones than the above and the OQO [slashdot.org], which are also much more "linuxy" models, are discussed here [slashdot.org] and most possibly made available by everyone outside Japan mailing their interest to buy one (or more, but with wireless connectivity please ;-)) here [myzaurus.com] now.
      • Sony's stuff is never particularly cheap, but what direct competitors do they have for this thing? What's the low-price whitebox alternative?

        This baby has a standard VGA output and can run (real) PowerPoint. This is the best thing I've seen for people who have to travel and give presentations.

        • Sony's stuff is never particularly cheap, but what direct competitors do they have for this thing? What's the low-price whitebox alternative?

          Something like this [tulip.nl]?

          Or this [hp.com]?

          Or this [acer.com],
          this [fujitsupc.com],
          this [tatung.com],
          this [paceblade.com],
          this [msi.com.tw]
          or
          this [zdnet.nl]?

          (Add (bluetooth) keyboard where appropriate.. Or something like this [yahoo.com].)
          • Which of those are acutally:

            1) available and supported in the US
            2) substantially cheaper than this Sony
            3) run Windows (tablet edition OK, CE not OK)
            4) have a vga video out
            5) are as small as this one?

            Most of those tablet PCs are bigger and not much cheaper (under 80% the cost) of the celeron version of this Sony.

      • As I remember, Sony has been involved in a number of shady "target the customer" problems, all mentioned here on slashdot. [For example, weren't they one of the groups that made the break-his-Ibook CDs with the damaged track, so that the CD couldn't be used in a computer?]

        So right there, I'd require a 50% discount to do business with Sony.

        But then, they also have the lock-in architecture of the Sony memory stick. So you can't go back to another competitor later. Therefore, I'd require another 50% disco

    • Re:"but it's too expensive." (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No.
      Exotic and esoteric technology is expensive because it requires research and development, but the heart of the problem for the PDA market is that it is a great idea as long as it is cheap.
      That last part is where every OEM who has bought into this dumb idea has failed it. People who need small at all costs can afford to pay more, but for the mass market the assumption is that there will be these tiny things that will replace PCs AND --and this and is the part that is being missed-- they will be ch

  • More Pictures (Score:5, Informative)

    by krut ( 473234 ) * <slashdot@[ ]t.dk ['kru' in gap]> on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:28AM (#9427848) Homepage
    More pictures at http://www.dynamism.com/u70/gallery.shtml [dynamism.com]

    • Re:More Pictures (Score:5, Funny)

      by spj524 ( 526706 ) <spjohnson@gmCOUGARail.com minus cat> on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:30AM (#9427988)
      HA! It has a built in Ctrl-Alt-Delete button! I guess we should have seen that one comming.

      • Re:More Pictures (Score:4, Funny)

        by beuges ( 613130 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:47AM (#9428027)
        yeah, you should have. windows can be configured to only display the logon box once you've pressed ctrl-alt-del, which apparently is trapped by the kernel, and can't be intercepted by a fake logon dialog to sniff your logon details.

        its a pity that when microsoft implements security features, people still find ways to mock them.
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re:More Pictures (Score:4, Funny)

          by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:52AM (#9428043) Homepage Journal
          What do you mean?
          Ctrl-Alt-Del, itself, is an example of physical security. Tell me you've never hit the wronf key...

          • Re:More Pictures (Score:5, Interesting)

            by dekeji ( 784080 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @07:52AM (#9428495)
            Ctrl-Alt-Del, itself, is an example of physical security. Tell me you've never hit the wronf key...

            In IT, "security" means "protection from malicious attackers", while "safety" means "protection from accidental errors".

            So, choosing a difficult-to-type key combination for this function may be an example of safety (safe UI design), but it is not an example of security.

            The use of Control-Alt-Delete as a secure attention key, however, is an example of security because it makes it hard for attackers to present a fake login. However, making the key hard to type is not necessary for its security purpose; they could have picked F10 as the secure attention key.

      • Re:More Pictures (Score:3, Informative)

        by Ch_Omega ( 532549 )
        Well, it's not allways used only to access the task manager to kill processes, or reboot a totally freezed system. In f.eks. Win2k, you use the key kombo to log in, and this button will make this easier than to fumble with the stylus and sticky-keys.

      • Re:More Pictures (Score:1, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        HA! It has a built in Ctrl-Alt-Delete button! I guess we should have seen that one comming.

        But does it have an "any" key?

  • Why isn't it a tablet? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:31AM (#9427852)
    This seems like almost the perfect form-factor for a Tablet PC, since it's small enough to actually hold in only one hand, and big and powerful enough to write legible text, and do decent recognnition of it.
  • I just want a PDA / Phone that will happily run Nethack. Sony Clios will but they also run Windows CE - so sod that!
    The Psion Series 7 has a bespoke release of Nethack ... anybody had any experience with it?

  • Not small (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:39AM (#9427869)
    enough to be a PDA, and not big enough to want to sit in front of for a long time.

    A 12" Apple Powerbook would perhaps be more useful, and leave plenty of money for ice-cream.
    • makes me wonder if Apple is going to enter the handtop sector with a MiniMac

  • They should have stayed with the old U design (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mocm ( 141920 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:40AM (#9427872)
    like the U1, U3 or U101. Right now I would rather get a PC-CV50F [conics.net] which has a great screen resolution and
    the directHD feature which is very nice for synching or installing Linux.
    Maybe if Sharp would turn the screen into a touchscreen, that would be the best of both worlds, the resolution of the Sony is just too low.

  • OQO is not much cheaper (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mst76 ( 629405 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:42AM (#9427878)
    The U50 and U70 are $2199 and $2699 respectively. The OQO will be "just under $2000" [pocketpcthoughts.com]. The Flipstart price hasn't been announced yet, but I'd be surprised if it will be much cheaper. These things will remain rich men's toys for the forseeable future.

  • Reminds me of when I last shopped for a PDA (Score:5, Interesting)

    by harikiri ( 211017 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:42AM (#9427880)
    This was at the beginning of the year. I was looking at the top end, and what was locally available included:

    • Sony Clie UX-50 (keyboard, wifi, camera, usb) $AUD 1299
    • Sony Clie Clie PEGNX80VG (keyboard, camera) $AUD 999
    • Palm Tungsten 3 (graffiti, bluetooth) $AUD 799

    In short, I ended up going for the Palm for a few reasons. First off was price - Sony does not price their gear competitively. Their market appears to be the executives with fat expense accounts who see shiny new toys and go for them. I have a number of geek friends and none of them are big purchasers at Sony, with the sole exception being Sony's monitors.

    Secondly, when it came to software - because Sony regularly releases high-end models with customised software, they don't seem to support them for too long.

    So if I was somebody looking at the palmtop/tablet options out there, I would probably give this a miss. The spec's are nice, but it looks like something for someone who needs such functionality *today*, rather than waiting for equivalent devices to come to market in the next 6-12 months with a lower pricetag.

    But like most Sony products, damn... it looks sweet! ;-)

    • In short, I ended up going for the Palm for a few reasons. First off was price - Sony does not price their gear competitively. Their market appears to be the executives with fat expense accounts who see shiny new toys and go for them. I have a number of geek friends and none of them are big purchasers at Sony, with the sole exception being Sony's monitors.

      That seems like an odd thing to say -- I was looking for a cheap colour palm and I found that Sony's Clie model had far more features and memory than

  • I'd LOVE to have a PC of this size. But it would have to have Linux on it... and Sony are just too proprietary with their hardware... my old Vaio PCG-C1V (Picturebook) runs Slackware just great... apart from the camera (I know Tridge has got some of these to work... doesn't work on my model) and the firewire port, which is a pain.
    • I've got Debian (Sid) on a C1VE atm - same camera problem (the sonypi module doesn't appear to pick it up somehow), but the firewire alleges to work with a stock 2.6.3+ kernel. Can't test it though, as I've never even held a firewire peripheral, let alone owned one...
    • Just in case somebody will write a Linux installation report about this device, I would like to include a link into the Linux on Sony laptops and notebooks survey [tuxmobil.org] as well as into the Linux on TabletPCs and Pen PCs overview [tuxmobil.org].
    • I'd LOVE to have a PC of this size.

      The funny part is that I HAD a pc that size back in 1991...

      It was called a Dauphin DTR-1. It ran windows for workgroups 3.11 had the best handwriting recignition system I have EVER used and was all around cool.

      Funny how Sony simply took that old idea and simply updated it with today's technology.

      • Link (Score:2, Informative)

        by vasqzr ( 619165 )

        Neat!

        Dauphin Info [computercloset.org]

        Specifications and information
        Introduced:
        Original Price:
        CPU: Cyrix 486DRX2-50
        Memory: 4MB RAM
        Operating System: MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows 3.1 with Pen Extensions
        Input/Output: Monochrome VGA LCD display; pen input with handwriting recognition; optional separate keyboard
        Resolution: 640x480 grayscale
        Bus: N/A
        Other Items in Collection: Keyboard; carrying case; external 3.5" floppy disk drive; documentation; original box
        Items Needed:

        Weighing in at only 2 pounds,

  • The problem with anything from Sony (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:57AM (#9427921)
    ...is it you want it to do something beyond what Sony envisioned for it at this moment in 2004.

    Examples:
    I can guarantee you that if you want to run Longhorn when it comes out, it won't do it. The drivers won't work and Sony will not update drivers for older products.

    If it breaks after the warranty period, forget it. The replacement parts will cost more than the thing is worth.

    It will have minor incompatibilities with standard software suites, sony tech support will deny it and then mysteriously 6 months later a patch will appear that will be unannounced, you'll have to hunt for it on the Sony site.

    In short, when you buy a piece of Sony computer gear, buy it for what it does out of the box, forget about putting BSD or Linux on it (or even another version of windows), and if it breaks, throw it away.

    Its just a mindset at sony, and it explains why people generally buy Sony computer gear exactly once.
    • Yep, and when you will want a part or add-on for it you will discover that if it is available it is basically the same as the equivalent bits for other PC gear. However, the fifty generic options from the computer store won't work. In order to connect it you have exactly one option, which uses a special Sony connector, is only available from a Sony dealer, and mysteriously costs five times as much as anyone else's equivalent. Been there! Sony...BAH
    • Well, I'm on my second Sony laptop, and very happy with both. And both run SuSE linux nicely.
    • If you check through the driver updates for any sony vaio model you will see that there are driver updates for any version of Windows that supports the minimum specifications on the machine. Now you need to foolw thier upgrade guidelines exactly. Mostly it means that Windows needs to be installed to c:/windows so no dual boots or installs to winnt.

      Also, it is not the OEM's responsibility to get your third party software to work. I've worked in tech support and you get people calling you to support thier
    • That's not my experience. The Sony Z505HE I bought in 1999, that had Windows 98 when it arrived, today runs a dual boot of RedHat 7.3 and Windows XP. I upgraded the hard disk from 8 GB to 40 GB. And I upped the RAM by 50% to 192 MB. With an 802.11b card and the extended battery, (only now becoming affordable!) I can get four hours of battery life. It's been a reliable and fun little computer. I've used it for work, school and games. It doesn't quite have enough horsepower to play some of the more gra

  • Expensive (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IrresponsibleUseOfFr ( 779706 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:58AM (#9427922) Homepage Journal

    I will never understand the "wow, that computer is cool, but soo expensive" mentalality. I paid about $3000 for a laptop about 5 years-ago. I was happy with that machine. This one is more powerful, has a better battery life, and is cheaper in terms of actual dollars than the laptop. Should I pissed off that I bought my laptop now?

    If you want the vaio, and have the expendable income, buy it. Who cares if you can get a better desktop for a tenth of the cost. The most powerful computer in the world isn't worth the money if you aren't happy with it and don't use it.

    Anything that you buy is worth the money if you are satisfied with it. I really hate to see the put-down mentality of some people that take otherwise happy customers and make them feel stupid or cheated for their purchase. Absolutely, no good comes from that. You discourage people from buying products they would enjoy. You hurt companies that produce something cool, which causes them to raise prices on their not-so-cool items. In the end, for what? Your ego? Get a grip.

    • Re:Expensive (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @06:42AM (#9428169)
      The point of the reviewers is that the computer is not worth the money. That the benefits do not justify the cost. That the features are nice but the price is ridiculous. Whether you want to buy it anyway is up to you. Maybe for you the benefits outweigh the cost, or maybe you just like new technology, or, maybe you wipe your ass with hundred dollar bills.

      It's like ordering a $1000 omelette [fftimes.com]. It might be the best tasting omelete in the world but most people are still not going to order one. The omelette is cool but the price is too expensive. Whether or not they have the expendable income to afford one is besides the point.

      Why do you think that these people are attacking you? Because you bought something that wasn't worth the money and hate being reminded of it? If you really are happy with your purchase then these people should not bother you. You sound very insecure. Get a grip.

      • I really hate arguments that refer to "most people." Did you conduct a scientific survey? Take a poll? Hell, ask your friends? What gives you the authority to talk about the opinion of most people on any particular topic? Reviewers consider price/performance and comparable items on the market. The best they can do is give their opinion and justify their view with facts.

        But what I hate to see is just blantant negativity towards certain products because it isn't the best value. Mac users are probably

        • >What gives you the authority to talk about the opinion of most people on any particular topic?

          Thats the definition of what a reviewer is suppose to know.

          What is the audience to the product? Suppose you had an amazing video card that sold for $10,000. Don't you think that is note worthy to mention it in a review?

          >I hate to see is just blantant negativity towards certain products because it isn't the best value

          The vast majority of people hate spending money on a piece of garbage. Is it blantant
    • Also, a cost-benefit ratio is not a static thing that applies the same to everyone. Rather, it is directly affected by where you are in your life -- your resources and your interests. If you've just graduated from school and have a mound of debt and an entry-level job, this product might indeed seem too extravagant. But if you're an established professional with disposable income, and this tool would make your life easier or more enjoyable, the ratio for you is different. That's why there is a market for th

  • Meg or Gig (Score:4, Interesting)

    by FosterSJC ( 466265 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @04:58AM (#9427923)
    The units use DDR 266 RAM, and have one slot for memory. If you remove the battery, you'll see a door held in place by a phillips head screw for the tiny RAM module. 512 megs seems to be the max the unit can address,
    and both have a 20 meg 1.8" hard drive. These nifty drives aren't quite as fast as standard 2.5mm notebook hard drives, but they do use half the power. The drive has a 2 meg cache (the same as most notebook and basic desktop hard drives), a 4,200 RPM rotational speed and has an ATA-5 interface capable of 100MB/sec transfer rates.


    I could be wrong, but I think he means 20 Gig hard drive.

    • Re:Meg or Gig (Score:2, Informative)

      by BinLadenMyHero ( 688544 )
      You could be wrong?!!

      Of course you can't be wrong.
      How could it run Windows XP in 20 MB?
    • These nifty drives aren't quite as fast as standard 2.5mm notebook hard drives, but they do use half the power.
      Also, I doubt that there are that many "2.5mm" hard drives to compare against. I'm not sure how tall a PC Card-form factor flash "hard drive" is, but then again I don't think the 1.8"ers consume more power than a solid state drive. Thus, I conclude it's good the reviewer doesn't work for NASA. ;-)

  • suweet (sorta) (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Suchetha ( 609968 ) <suchetha@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:00AM (#9427924) Homepage Journal

    its nice in a "ooh i'm shiny buy me" kind of way. if you DO have the cash to pay for it (usd2200 - USD2700) i may even be a nice toy. but i guess for most people all this would be is primarily an entertainment unit and a secondarily a pda.

    as the article states

    Don't expect this to be a desktop replacement, but do expect it to be more than adequate for MS Office, email and web browsing as well as video playback and light gaming. It's truly a portable movie player in addition to being a full Windows PC.

    of course if you put a lower footprint version of windows (say 2k) on it, it may handle things better. i should also PROBABLY run linux

    but for me i would personally prefer a larger laptop for half the price (and i tend to put things down and forget them) or better yet a PDA for PDA work/email and a good portable DVD/VCD/MP3/CD player for entertainment. a 5" screen is just too small for my shortsighted eyes

    of course this may be a big hit in the gadget crazy japanese market. but at the risk of getting a LOT of flaming i will ask "but what use is it? especially at that price!"

    i am sure i will get a lot of responses, but i still think that this is a solution looking for a problem

    Suchetha
    • " am sure i will get a lot of responses, but i still think that this is a solution looking for a problem"

      Eh? The popularity of PocketPC's and mobile computing, and this is a solution looking for a problem?

  • Anyone willing to shell out an extra 700$... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Granos ( 746051 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:02AM (#9427928)
    The price for these two items in Japan are currently 210,000 yen (1,900 USD) [sonystyle.com] for the U70 and 178,500 yen (1,600 USD) [sonystyle.com] for the U50.
    I don't think price is a big concern for anyone willing to shell out an extra 700 bucks over the original retail price to get the latest toy from Japan, when there are so many comprarable products in the US that would be just as useful to 99.9% of the population. Stuff like this doesn't have to fill a particular niche, it just has to be new and unique enough to attract the attention of rich technophiles who crave the bleeding edge.
  • >They like it, but it's too expensive.

    That's funny, that was my opinion on *all* of their laptops.

  • ad 2004, 3d chipsets still rare? ..:( (Score:5, Informative)

    by janbjurstrom ( 652025 ) <inoneear@noSPAm.gmail.com> on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:10AM (#9427946)
    I want a handheld computer that is also quick with 3d.

    I'd really like to see competent graphic chipsets worth a damn become a standard feature in these devices.

    Do I have to get a PSP? But I'd like to play around creating 3d apps of my own - do I need to get a Sony SDK license (at what cost)? This one, at $2800 [dynamism.com], still sports the (for 3d) underpowered 855GM chipset [intel.com]. Shared memory, no 3d hardware (or does it have?)...

    Ok, with a 3d gfx card, the battery life might fall through the roof - but still... I'd feel like Superman without the cape with a hi-res screen like that, a fast CPU, but with abysmal overall 3d performance.

  • What "and everything"?! (Score:3, Funny)

    by SpaghettiPattern ( 609814 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:33AM (#9427993)
    Lisa Gade provides the typically in-depth review, with pictures and words "and everything".

    I bet more /.-ers out there are wondering about Lisa's "and everythings".

  • Deja Vu (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @05:46AM (#9428025)
    I thought I recognized the submitters text from somewhere. [gizmodo.com]

  • Hopefully this niche will thrive (Score:5, Insightful)

    by copponex ( 13876 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @06:21AM (#9428111) Homepage
    I'm not a big fan of the price, but this is heading in the right direction.

    I hope in 3 to 5 years there are a lot of these palm or hip tops, because it's really where computers start becoming more of an assistant than pain in the ass. I'd like to grab breakfast while browsing the web, turn off the screen for mp3 playing, maybe turn it on again to check e-mail halfway to work or if I stop somewhere. Then when I get to work plug it into a dock for a full keyboard/mouse/display for the workday routine. I just want ALL of my data with me ALL the time.

    In retail situations, bringing your pricelist in your pocket will be big business as soon as the price point goes down. With all of the new credit card verification stuff, I don't see why we won't be checked out as soon as we buy something. Just pick up the receipt on the way out the door.

  • It looks so 80's (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @06:47AM (#9428192)
    I still have a Sharp PC 1403 Pocket Computer. The near same PC 1402 was my first computer ever. I wanted portable over games (as in the ever present C64 back then). I've still got the 1403 on my desk, doing little tax calculations in Basic, printable on this cool little cash register printer.
    Anyway, it's got tons of special periferals and looks very much like this Sony thing with all the extra stuff and it's brushed brass/metal feeling.
    But: The Sharp PC 1403 runs 130 hours on two button-cell watch batteries and probably something like a decade when powered by the printers 4 mignon cells. Still have to find a modern portable computer to beat that.

    Until then I'll settle for my current 12" iBook, which beats all others in price/performance/usability ratio. Oh, and it's OS doesn't suck either. Can't say that about the U50, can we?
  • Yet I must have it.

  • CF II Slot (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @06:56AM (#9428232)
    I wonder if this is a concession from Sony that their marginalised memory stick format is on its last legs.
  • While Sony is often known for pricier products, this really seems like an excellent form factor and feature set, but at over $2000, it seems very expensive.

    When the price drops to the around the $1000 mark, they could sell a ton of these.

  • One very nice feature is... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jbarr ( 2233 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @07:17AM (#9428321) Homepage
    ...its lack of an integrated camera. This means that it's "corporate-friendly", something Sony's UX-50 was not (and it's the ONLY reason I bought a Palm Tungsten T3 unstead of the UX-50.)

  • Boot time (Score:4, Interesting)

    by laetus ( 45131 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @07:18AM (#9428323)
    My (2nd) biggest problem with this style device, (other than price), is the boot time. It takes the same time as a normal PC to boot up?

    Not very convenient for an "on-the-go" device like this (and yes, I think laptops boot too slowly too).
    • I would suspect that this type of device boots once and then never again,
      instead hibernating when not in use. If my suspicions are correct, that would
      mean that for all practical purposes, this type of device will be an
      instant-on type of device, only rarely requiring actual reboots (largely
      dependent on the stability of the software and hardware).
    • Boot time isn't an issue if you get the right laptop. One of the primary selling points about Apple laptops is the sleep mode. You close the lid and it falls asleep in under ten seconds. You open the lid and the login prompt is displayed in two seconds. In sleep mode, the battery loses under 10% over three days, so forgetting your laptop in sleep mode for weeks at a time won't make you lose state. This is all true for the 500MHz and 800MHz Apple laptops that I have used (i.e. you don't need top of the
  • Well it is cool, and probably will be an interesting device to play with but it just doesn't fit.

    It's too big to be a PDA, it's too expensive to be thrown in your pocket and carried with you anyway. It's also going to take too long to boot up as someone mentioned. One nice thing about Palm and Pocket PCs is that they're always on practically. Push the power button and you're good to go.

    I haven't seen much need for a crossover device like this in the US either. Laptops are popular, and seem to work as a
  • Except it doesn't have a built-in stylus, doesn't have an OS designed for a PDA, and looks bloody awful... I'll pass.

  • plagiarism (Score:2, Informative)

    by bbay ( 192854 )
    Looks like LabRat007 is a plagiarist [gizmodo.com].
  • At least, thats how I first read the headline. I understand that detail is important when giving a review, but often a reviewer feels so obligated to offer their opinion on the least important, inconsequential details that it drives me insane. I think SlashDot has taught me that only my opinion matters, and to never listen to anyone else's opinoin.

  • this is ... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by curator_thew ( 778098 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @08:37AM (#9428910)

    Exactly the type of portable webpad I need:

    (a) around the house, to look up stuff, browse the web, check movies, etc;

    (b) at work, to pull up files and email during meetings, etc;

    I would buy one today if it were a better price.

    Also, I think that they could trim the specs and still have a marketable product: grunt power and number of ports are not important for this style of product.

  • What I'd really like is something this small with a usable keyboard.

    My dream machine is really a small, portable computer with keyboard attached:

    • It should weigh less than 2 pounds.
    • It should be small enough to fit in a large coat pocket, but not so small that the keyboard isn't usable.
    • It should use a "standard" battery, such as AA.
    • It should have about 10 hours of use on a single charge (NiCd rechargeables).
    • I should be able to use store-bought alkaline batteries in cases of emergency (travelling, et
    • 1. OK, that's easy.
      2. Look at some Sharp Zaurus PDAs.
      3. OK, that's not too hard.
      4. That was two pounds WITHOUT the ten batteries, right?
      5. How many packs of batteries did you want, again?
      6. Ethernet? Easy. USB? Easy. Parallel? WTF? Modem? WinModem, or real modem?
      7. The 8088 can't handle what you want, and it's the 80188 that you're thinking of in this situation. The i80386EX is the LEAST processor you could use, and you could really use an ARM or something.
      8. Follow my advice in 7, and ditch the modem, and
      • HP 200LX - most of what you need.

        It's small, uses AAs, gets long life, has a PCMCIA slot, has a 8MHz 80186, can run Minix (although it's a dirty hack that's fairly unstable), AFAIK it has instant on, it has a few megs of flash (that's the bad part), a 640x200 mono CGA screen, and is dirt cheap. It runs DOS natively, so you can run some stuff.

        • Of course I know that there are tradeoffs in everything. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that we can run today's processors from batteries - when I got into electronics, a chip drawing 100 mA was considered a power hog. Today's CPU's draw what, 30 - 40 AMPS?! (~ 3V * 40A = 120W). Given that D-cell rechargeable NiCd's are about 300 mAH, they'd last about, oh, say, 30-40 seconds....

          But sometimes its nice to push the envelope. I know x86 assembly; I don't need a 3.4 GHz processor for reasonable performanc

          • "Given that D-cell rechargeable NiCd's are about 300 mAH, they'd last about, oh, say, 30-40 seconds...."

            What??? ... I've been looking at rechargables lately (used to use all sorts when I was younger.) The highest capacity "D" size cell I have found is a 9Ah cell. They're a little pricey when you get up there in the Ah ratings (probably about 5-10$ a cell) but they're probably worth it.

            Those were Ni-Mh cells, though. I've seen some cheaper 2Ah D cells, pretty much bottom of the line. Remember when Rad
            • Yes, I remember the Radio Shack NiCd's. I bought some, and that was the last time I bought rechargeables from RS. And, incidentally, that's where the 300mAH figure came from....

  • Argh. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Fantastic Lad ( 198284 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @10:08AM (#9429978)
    Why why WHY won't somebody build a decent portable computer.

    Here's the three point reality:


    1. I want to be able to read a document while taking a dump or while lying in bed.     It has to be light and easy to hold, and the screen has to be at least twice the size of the standard PDA. 5"x2" will do the job, allowing you to actually see a whole paragraph at once! (whooo.)

    2. I want to be able to touch-type into the thing with comfort and ease. Handwriting recognition is the single most limited, irritating and hence, unused technology in handhelds today. Thumb-only keyboards are useless to anybody who needs to write more than a sentence. I don't need the thing to fit in my pocket, because I'm not a space-man living in a Star Trek episode. Further, I don't need to instantly be able to access the thing on a whim, because I don't intend to keep my BRAIN on a PDA. I'll pull the device out of my BACKPACK or BRIEFCASE, or pick it up off the TABLE when I want to do some WORK or READING. --Neither of which are done while standing around the water cooler.

    3. The power has to last at LEAST 30 hours on double A's or something else I can easily replace at a convenience store. I DO NOT want to mess around with idiotic recharge bays and proprietary batteries.


    It should also be noted that. . .

    I DO NOT NEED OR WANT a color screen. I do not need to watch movies or play games on my wallet. I DO, however, need to be able to type essays on a reliable machine. Until somebody can make a color screen which doesn't turn good batteries into worthless 5 hour charges, then just give me a Black & White LCD screen!

    The closest I've seen anything come so far is the Psion series 5 [geek.com]. I've written about this several times now in the last week, since I just became the proud owner of a used $75 ebay model. The machine is ALMOST perfect. The screen is just a little too shiny which makes it hard to read, and if the keyboard was only one inch wider and slightly more responsive, it'd be the perfect machine. WHY, OH WHY, DIDN'T THEY MAKE IT PERFECTLY???

    I mean, it gives you 35 hours on a couple of AA's, an excellent word processor, fully programmable key-board and as many megs of memory as you can stuff on a Compact Flash card. Man, for 75$, that is one SWEET machine!

    ONE inch wider, guys, and a non-reflective plastic on the screen, and you'd have created the perfect product.


    -FL

  • Why would anyone want Win XP in a PDA? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by labourstart ( 120404 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @12:31PM (#9431940) Homepage
    PDAs are things you boot up quickly, and shut off with the click of a switch. They're incredibly useful when you need to look up a detail while standing somewhere. The 'instant-on' feature is, I think, one of the strongest points of PDAs as opposed to laptops. So what's the point of making what is essentially a PDA with all its disadvantages (small screen, for example) without its main advantage of instant bootups?
  • That's the biggest problem with these things a machine that slow is going to be a dog with XP anyway and have a very short lifespan. I've got a U1 and have had many other ultra small Sony PC's and you have to spend a lot of time ripping out all the crap like IE, Outlook, etc to get the performance up, and then if you insist on installing that beast Office, the overall performance takes a huge hit.

  • This is what I want! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bodhammer ( 559311 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @01:48PM (#9432922)
    Take:

    1 Newton 2000 for handwriting

    1 Zaurus SL-C860 for display, keyboard, Linux

    add

    Ethernet, Bluetooth, and 802.11b (or g)

    6 hrs battery life with replacable batteries

    Support and a vendor supported dev. community

    Stir Vigoriously, pour into a sub $600 package

    Sell hundreds of thousands of units!!!

  • Prediction: Product without a market to fill (Score:3, Insightful)

    by illumin8 ( 148082 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @02:07PM (#9433164) Journal
    My prediction is that these type of products will fail miserably. They are not useful as a PDA at all due to the fact that they run Windows XP. Read the following from the article:

    Despite appearances, the Sony Vaio U50 and U70 are indeed Windows computers. They can run Windows software, and take as long to boot up or resume from standby as any notebook PC. So if you're looking for instant-on, quick access to data, and don't need to run Windows PC software on the device, consider notebook-like PDAs such as the Sharp Zaurus C860.

    Can you imagine trying to get someone's contact info at a business meeting with one of these?

    Let's see, open the lid, wait 5-10 seconds for Windows to wake up from standby mode.

    If it's not booted, you're waiting 2-3 minutes to boot.

    Now, enter your username and password to login to Windows.

    Now, open Outlook by double-clicking it's icon.

    Choose what folder you want the contact in (business/personal). Maybe you even have to establish a network connection to place the contact in a shared folder.

    Now click "New Contact" and try to figure out a way to input their data without a keyboard!!! WTF, no keyboard for data input?!?!

    Guess you'll be using Windows XP's on-screen keyboard to enter all their data, hunting and pecking with your stylus or fingers on the little tiny on-screen QWERTY keyboard. Better go to Start|Programs|Accessories|Accessibility|On-Screen Keyboard. 5 clicks later and you can actually type!

    Type in contact name and phone number painfully slow while hunting and pecking on the on-screen keyboard.

    Click save.

    By this time you've probably wasted 5-10 minutes of your business associate's time and he's already handed you a business card or written his info down on a piece of paper and handed it to you. Not to mention he thinks you're a total wanker for using technology that just doesn't fit the purpose.

    Compare all this with my Palm enabled Treo phone?

    Open the flip.

    Click the "New" button.

    Type in their name and phone number and hit "Done."

    Total time on the Palm enabled phone? 30 seconds or so.

    So basically, this is just a smaller than average laptop. I still have to carry around a PDA, cellphone, and every other device I always had to carry. These devices might be popular in Japan where there is a demand for very tiny portable computers, but here in the US they will fail miserably.

    It seems like they're trying to capture a small percentage of the already tiny PDA market, by marketing a device that doesn't even function as a PDA... Fucking brilliant. Someone ought to knock those Sony and OQO executives that greenlighted these products upside the head with a clue-by-four.

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