Are PDAs Simply Finished? 513
angkor writes "After Sony's sudden plan to discontinue the Clie and pull out of the American PDA market, many industry observers have increased their speculation about the demise of the PDA, in general. The Japanese electronics giant was defeated in the American market by increased competition and an industry-wide decline in PDA sales."
Yes (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes (Score:5, Interesting)
I write public safety software and there will always be a market for a portable method to access information for policemen who primarily use bicycles, motorcycles or horses. But writing stuff for the current mess of devices out there just plain hurts. If the Hand held makers would just sit down and agree that their priority is to allow people access to information and all support at least HTML 3.0 standards with CSS and JScript, there would be an explosion of web services and web portals that would actually bring some value to these things. Hand helds right now are just a few steps above Linux for the desktop. Linux is doing much better for application support, but is still mostly a geek toy. At least the handhelds allow a total moron to play solitaire and keep his address book right out of the box.
Disclaimer: For the super busy, high powered business man, being able to sync your Hand held with email and calendar functions is a service worth it's weight in gold. However, until they offer some value to the other 90% of us, the parent poster is dead right about the cell phones.
Yeah, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
But the main reason I have for keeping it seperate from my phone (besides screen size) is this: I DON'T HAVE TO PAY A MONTHLY FEE TO USE MY PDA!
Why does it seem that more devices like this which can be purchased once and used without a monthly charge are being edged out by cheap, tatty phones and the like that require service agreements? Who the hell NEEDS a phone with a million features (PDA, camera, video mail, etc) when all one really needs is a phone that lets you place and receive calls?
Re:Yeah, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
-If you are going to pay for cell phone service anyway, and you want a PDA as well, you don't really lose anything by purchasing a PDA with cell phone capabilities and paying a monthly fee for the cell phone connectivity.
Perhaps you only need a phone that can place and receive calls, but I get a heck of a lot of functionality out of my SE P800 which does have PDA capability, a camera, video mail, etc. For example, I never really thought I'd use the camera much, but I find myself using it more and more for work-related purposes, and just pure convenience. Sure, my Canon G3 digital camera produces a far superior picture, but there are times when I just need a quick photo of something and the phone is the most convenient way of getting that.
Now, to be fair, it's neither the cheap nor tatty phone that you were describing, so you may have been speaking of cheaper "quasi-PDA" phones with less functionality.
I used to own seperate a seperate Handspring Visor, and a Nokia cell phone. It was an inconvenience to always carry both around, so I usually didn't. I don't have that problem anymore. When a new model is released that has WiFi capability, I'll have a device which is essentially a "micro-laptop" - which is the perfect tool for me (I have fast desktop machines at work and at home, so little need for a conventional laptop).
N.
Cellphone with PDA? yeah, but do me a seperate PDA (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is why:
I keep my PDA and phone synced to my pc and to eachother using bluetooth, so I take my notes and appointments once, and have them everywhere even if I only carry my phone around.. I do end up taking my PDA with me as well tho most of the time.. its small and light enough to just fit in the pocket of a shirt.
Since my phone doesn't have to have a as big as possible screen or even color, it can me sxtremely small and have a very low energy usage, resulting in being able to carry it around for a logn time without charging.
So well, by not wanting phone functionality from my pda, and only wanting very limited pda functionality from my phone, I end up with 2 small and light devices. I can always carry my appointments and such with me in a small and light phone, and it is little bother to take a pda with me as well since it is also light and small. Since they have a wireless link I can still browse the internet and do mail on my pda, and do so with a nice well readable screen and something more comfortable then a phone keyboard.
It's kindof funny, neither my pda or phone is new, both are over 2 years old actually, but the combination ends up being very usable, and as it is, I often end up reading slashdot during my regular 5 hours long trips to Berlin by train, only depending on the availability of the cellular network, but with a repeater in the train itself that is not a problem.. and knowign that by the tiem I get there the batteries of my PDA will be somewhat drained, but my phoen will have enough power to last another week :)
Re:Yes (Score:5, Informative)
I think the major reason "PDAs" are dying is because virtually every cellphone on sale these days has most of the functionality PDAs are generally used for
So please tell me, how do you enter the phone number/ address/ important piece of information you've just been told into your cell phone while you are talking on it?
I'll take a small bluetooth enabled phone and a good PDA over a constrained convergant device any day.
Re:Yes (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this is how the PDA lost its edge. It *used* to be an inexpensive, specialized satellite device. Then feature creep came in and everyone wanted more memory, bigger screens, full color support, sound, graphics, wireless, etc., etc. If Palm started selling something akin to the original device, but at a much lower cost (say $25-$50), they would probably see sales pick up.
The problem is that such a device would invalidate the tremendous library of existing software. Thus they need less of a true Palm Pilot and more of a new "mini-Palm" platform for the "cost-conscious". I myself love my Sony CLIE and am sad to hear of their demise, but I also bought mine on sale for $130. There's no way I'm going to spend $300-$500 on something I might lose. Not to mention the fact that my occasional (albeit useful) usage doesn't justify a high price tag.
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
My origional PAlm Pilot. was in heavy use until I replaced it with a Sharp Zaurus.. most peopl that use palm devices are very happy with their unit for years, which is a Deathwish for any electronics manufacturer.. the PAlm PDA was too good. it worked, the apps did not take 90Meg of space and a 4 meg palm pilot could be used quite well by even a power user and have room for gobs of data plus books in it.
The same can NOT be said about any other PDA.
I am sitting here with a almost worn out sharp SL5500 looking to replace it with the new 6000 upgrade... but yet my palm III from over 4 years ago is still doing it's job nicely, works great, the battery pack does not fade (AAA batteries are cheap and better than any LiIon battery made.) and it's doing things my GF thoughh you needed to buy a new PDA for.
PalmOS is the killer Pocket OS... it doesn't obsolete the hardware at every version... and that is the problem.
Thre last Clie from SONY is the ultimate Palm Pilot, and people that buy them dont go upgrading every year as they dont need to.
and that is the problem.... if your product doesnt hook the customer into the "upgrade" cycle then you are doomed.
Requisite default answer. (Score:5, Interesting)
Bluetooth r0xx0r j00.
Heck, if the iPod could input calandar and contact info, I definitely wouldn't need a PDA.
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:5, Informative)
if I turn on my iPod and from the main screen select "extras" there is a "contacts" and "calendars" option there.
Selecting contacts brings up a list of everyone in my contact list on dotMac. Selecting a person shows me (on the LCD) their name, address, phone, email.
Same with calendars.
Now you can't edit this data - nor can you input new data because that would require a better input interface, but you can view the data. So it's not 100% PDA functionality, but it's been handy in many situations when I needed a phone number or an address. You can even put in directions and such in the "notes" section.
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:4, Insightful)
They deliberately make it confusing so that the average Joe gets screwed into spending more money than s/he should.
Unless the mobile companies make it completely clear (and permanent) that you can access all your info free - forever, with no hidden catches (including running out of credit / switching providers, etc) - then there will always be a market for PDA's for people who just want access to their data without worrying about paying for the privelage to get it.
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:3, Insightful)
Me, I don't mind plopping it in the desktop stand to sync it.
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:5, Interesting)
There are what, 3-4 different ways this can happen through a PDA/Phone at the moment - and using a PDA, you can be sure you are using a non $/sec method, but with a phone it gets blurry.
"Sorry, sir but when you checked your email at 4:14pm this was at our 'peak rate' and you now owe us lots of dollars."
"But I thought I was using the Wifi access through the coffee shop"
"No sir, that only occurs on every second Wednesday - please pay the $14.50 fee or we will disconnect you."
I know - its just little fees and I should just pay it - but I don't like getting tricked into these fucking schemes which are more and more prevalent these days from the big companies.
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:5, Interesting)
I just got a Palm Zire71 after living with my Danger Sidekick for the past nine months and I couldn't think of any practicle use for the Palm. While the surface area of the screen may be larger, I can't:
- Use the AIM/Y!/ICQ/MSN
- Use SSH over a rediculously slow connection
- Call people with it
The Palm seems pretty much useless to me. Seeing as Danger did such a nice job with the Sidekick, it has become my lifeline. All the organizational features of a Palm were implemented better in the Sidekick. With its carrier-side syncing, the calendar, todo lists, notes/memos, e-mails, etc are all stored both on my devices "data store" and on Danger's servers...no need to go HotSync it. At one point I had to get a replacement Sidekick (because T-Mobile says that two were produced with the same IMEI) and upon inserting my SIM into the new one, everything down to my preferences for the brightness of the display were moved to the new device without any interaction on my part!Anyway, my Palm is now being used as a TV remote since Danger is refusing to release any API information for the IR module on the Sidekick. But honestly, why would anyone carry two devices (mobile phone, organizer) when the Sidekick (or another similar device) offers the functionality of both?
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:3, Informative)
Of course the treo 180 that I have has terrible software bugs. bugs tied to the apearantly shoddy integration of cellphone and pda technology. Im hoping the newer models don't suffer this...
nine months, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
one of my friends has had his sidekick replaced *four* times already. i'm going to wait for 2.0 before i try one again.
SideKick rocks! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:5, Informative)
You were aware that the Zire couldn't do these things when you bought it, weren't you? The Sidekick is sold by TMobile as a phone with e-mail and IM services, plus it doubles as an organizer. The Zire has no wireless connectivity other than Bluetooth. Your complaints above don't seem to be valid. Further, why would you buy the Zire if you're perfectly happy with the organizing functions of the Sidekick?
But honestly, why would anyone carry two devices (mobile phone, organizer) when the Sidekick (or another similar device) offers the functionality of both?
One of the big limitations of most phones that have PDA functionality is the UI. I don't want to enter appointments with the tiny little keyboard on my phone. I prefer the pen input of the Palm when I'm in a meeting. The touch screen gets me to my datebook month or week view in a few taps.
Move to something like the Sidekick or the Treo, and you get a phone with PDA functionality, but you give up size. PDA phones are huge. I keep my standard, no-frills GSM phone in my pocket at all times, and at about 3 oz and a smaller footprint (4.0 x 1.8 x 0.8 inches) I don't even know it's there. (This is a cheap Siemens GSM M46 phone, has a calendar/AIM/e-mail capability w/ T-Mobile). As I mentioned, I don't use the calendar functions with the phone as the interface is too cumbersome.
T-Mobile (Danger) Sidekick
Source: T-Mobile.comPalmOne Treo 600
Source: PalmOne.comAt any rate, if you're going to go with the larger PDA/phone solution, why not go with the Palm unit? An open API and thousands of available applications seems like a better route to me...
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Requisite default answer. (Score:5, Informative)
A 'baby mulching machine' is a juvenile machine that mulches. A 'baby-mulching machine' is a machine that mulches babies. Similarly, unless there is a such thing as a 'to list' and a 'do list', it should be 'to-do list'.
Re:Changing Service, moving etc. (Score:3, Informative)
This seems to vary from country to country. Anyway all phones can be unlocked pretty easily at your local phone dealer. Some can even be unlocked with the help of the codes that can be downloaded from the Internet.
> So you may have to transfer your data to a new phone, and that is not a simple process.
There are software packages that will allow you to do complete backup (settings/messages/phone book) of your phone. Offcourse your phone needs to
oh that's easy enough :) (Score:3, Interesting)
You know... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You know... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you go through real o
can't be! (Score:5, Funny)
Smart phones (Score:5, Interesting)
It sounds silly, but if we could disable the phone part of a smartphone it could actually be more useful!
Re:Smart phones (Score:5, Informative)
So yeah, looks like someone's already though of it :)
Re:Smart phones (Score:3, Interesting)
In general, a PDA will always have a bigger screen than a smartphone, or the phone will be absurdly large. My wife's SonyEricsson P900 is the best attempt I've seen so far at a hybrid but it's still a chunky phone that doesn't quite make it as a PDA, screenwise.
The thing is, these days there is far more of a need for horizontal screen real-estate than vertical. And the default orientation of PDAs, while facilitating one-handed use, makes things like webpages an exercise in futility.
And no, screen
Re:Smart phones (Score:3, Insightful)
Handtops (Score:4, Interesting)
Things may not really take off till the second generation of these devices, but I'm looking forward to taking one of them for a test drive.
Afraid so. (Score:3, Interesting)
That's a shame...no, really it is. (Score:5, Informative)
PDAs were a gimmick, nothing more. No matter how shiny they got, and no matter how many I owned (which amounted to 3 at one point, a palm V, a palm Vx, and one of those ridiculous Sony Clie jobbers) they still couldn't replace the ease of use a cell phone provided me.
Gaming on them was a horrific joke as well. What with the release of the PSP on the horizon and my Gameboy SP charging next to me through USB, the PDAs of the world were simply replaced by superior technology.
This happens to fads. I don't see many people wearing 'hammer pants' anymore, despite the fact they provided the same use as any other pair of pants.
++
I make no apologies for the run-on sentences contained above.
Re:That's a shame...no, really it is. (Score:5, Interesting)
It can store several texts at once, drug information (including indication, dosing, and interactions), and most importantly the ever-revolving formulary your insurance company uses. There are many programs that make calculating certain medically related formulas a cinch.
The PDA may be dead for the general public, but it has found quite a nice niche in medicine.
Re:That's a shame...no, really it is. (Score:4, Interesting)
But hospitals have invested heavily in the WIFI infrastructure to accomidate a PDA in the hostpital almost like a cellphone in the outside world.
That said - i think the real tool for medicine is a simple barcode reader - scanning patient tags, medicine bottles, blood pressure readings, and a range of tests into a portable scanner - allows the objective facts of medicine to be collected in real time and consolidated without double entry.
You mention cross checking medicines - that can be done by scanning the patients current collection of pill bottles - and the recommended new entry, the patient id and - viola - a printed drug cross check.
AIK
PDAs aren't dead. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That's a shame...no, really it is. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it depends. I owned a Visor, one Clie, Tungsten C and now I have a Zaurus C760. I have also cell phone which has some rudimentary PDA functions (calendar, notes, addressbook). It all comes down to what you want to use the device for.
If you need just to keep track of phone numbers and occassional appointment, then probably a PDA is an overkill for you. The same if you expect a PC-like functionality from it. It was just not intended for that use.
However, if you need an ultra-portable device, which is capable of decent networking (there are no cell phones with WiFi and data connections via e.g. GPRS are very slow and for exorbitant prices.), has usable screen for data entry and a bit of computing power to handle e.g. VPN, decent mail client and web browser, then probably a cell phone is not going to cut it. Also I want my cell phone small, not a huge brick it would have to be if the manufacturer wanted to accomodate large screen usable for PDA functions. Just look at the Treo smartphones, they are very big for a phone and the screens are still the good old crappy 160x160 Palm resolution (not sure about the recent 600 Treo). And Treos are probably the best PDA-phone combination (or smartphone if you want) that there is on the market today.
Compared to laptops, yeah, laptop is more powerful than any PDA, that's true. However, my Visor ran on one set of AAA batteries for two weeks with normal use and over 12 hours with intensive use in a day long meeting entering data via external keyboard. Even the most recent Centrino laptops have problems to last that long. Not to mention the portability - I am carrying my Zaurus all the time with me, my T41 Thinkpad has 2.5kg, which do not count as a brick yet, but are not something pleasant to constantly lug around neither.
Finally, usage patterns - with PDA, you can just whip it out, power it up, look up some phone number or whatever and turn it off again in seconds. That's about the time you manage to type something on your cell phone fighting with the clumsy interface or your laptop starts to be usable after waking up from suspend.
So, I do not think that because Sony exited the market with their horribly overpriced and often flaky PDAs, which refused to support e.g. Compact Flash because it would undercut the sales of their expensive Memorysticks (even in the NZ line, which had the slot for that - the slot can be used only for their proprietary and very expensive WiFi card), the whole market is going down the drain. There is a saturation in the market and little compeling reason to buy a new PDA if your old one still works fine. The amount of innovation brought by Palm, Sony and HP (iPaqs ..) is abysmal in recent years, so no wonder that people do not buy. The largest peeves of the current PDAs - decent keyboard, decent display (Psion anybody?) and finally stable OS (yeah, both PalmOS and WinCE suck here) are still missing. Sharp is on good track with their C7xx line here, however the software leaves a lot to be desired and in the marketing department Sharp is shooting itself in the foot, IMHO. Fortunately, there is plenty of excelent free software for Zaurus available.
Calling PDAs fad which is dying out is at least bit premature, IMHO. If you have no use for it, do not buy one. For me it was a tremendous help, regardless of having a laptop and cell phone already. I like devices that take the "UNIX approach" - do just one thing and do it well. Laptop and cell phone do not do PDA role well, so why to push them there.
Regards, Jan
Re:That's a shame...no, really it is. (Score:3, Interesting)
Would you say that electronic calculators were a fad? Or typewriters? PDA's served a specific and indispensable role in people's lives. They were a low-powered computing and data storage platform, able to encrypt sensitive data and store thousands of pages of notes, and proved so useful that they were finally integrated into other indispensable pieces of hardware. How is that a gimmick?
Now that mobile phone operators are integrating PDA functio
IMO (Score:2, Interesting)
I have an iPaq and a Palm (built into my phone). The biggest problem with most PDAs are their battery issues. The last time the battery went out on my iPaq and I lost everything that was it. It's too frustrating to have to completely re-install all the software when something like this happens. I know there are work-arounds, but most of the PDAs out there by default have this issue.
I generally used my PDA for an address book. It's useful there but otherwise it's a gimmick.
hard drives and battery... (Score:2)
=> with the new Hydrogen cells, maybe the pda will benefit from the crossing of PDA+Phone+Multimedia player, and I can have a 400Mhz Xscale with 40Gigs hdd +triband/wifi-bluetooth and a week power with a simple lighter fluid refill...
More than the end of pdas, we should see the end of laptops!
Zaurus? (Score:2, Funny)
Saturated Market? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not gone, just changing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, the Treo 600 has it's flaws (most notably the mediocre screen resolution). But before I got this device, every PDA I ever had was something I used for a few months then it fell into general disuse because of the effort to charge it, sync it and use it. This is the first PDA device that I actually use regularly and believe I will continue to use regularly, and that convenience is worth a whole lot. So the PDA is dead... long live the PDA-phone.
Convergence (Score:5, Interesting)
My cellphone is a fairly basic Motorola, its batteries can last for days without recharging, and I can leave it switched on at all times, day and night, just popping it into the charger as required. Sure, it doesn't have a colour screen or multimedia messaging or PDA functions, but the fact that it's always ready to use is crucial to the way I use a phone.
My PDA, on the other hand, has a big 320x320 in full colour, oodles of flash memory, sound and video capabilities, and so on. However, the way I use a PDA is totally different. If I left the PDA on for more than around 4-6 hours, the battery would be gone. Fortunately, I use the thing intermittently, only turning it on when I want to check my tasks and appointments or record a memo.
If you can make me a Smartphone that has audio and video capabilities with a large screen that can be left on all day like my current cellphone can, I'd buy it without much hesitation. But that's not the case at the moment.
Today's smartphones are cellphones with poor battery life and/or PDAs with small screens and limited abilities. They're not perfect for either task. Until they are, I'll keep carrying my separate devices, and until we see a PDA with a 4 megapixel camera with an optical zoom lens, a flash and full manual exposure control, I will keep my digicam, too.
Perhaps fuel cells are the answer, but until they're mainstream, why aren't we seeing more Smartphones that could be put into a "super low power" mode - where the colour screen is switched off and replaced by a simple 100x100 pixel mono display, and the 400MHz XScale is switched off and the phone functions run on a 1MHz VLSI to conserve battery life when the thing is sitting in your jacket pocket?
Re:Convergence (Score:5, Informative)
It was while trying to decide on a GPS solution that I came across Route 66's bluetooth GPS for symbian phones.
I'm now the happy owner of a Nokia 6600 which gives me ssh over GPRS for emergencies:
http://s2putty.sourceforge.net/
The early stages of Nethack:
http://www.nicolaas.net/erebus/item.php?key=Net
and Frozen Bubble:
http://handhelds.freshmeat.net/projects/fb-s60/
I'm really happy with my choice. If I need to do anything serious while I'm on the road, I connect over the phone with my laptop. The GPS can be a bit slow updating but I've been quite impressed with it so far. And, not forgetting its phone functionality, it's a very good phone for talking. My batteries last about 2 days under heavy usage.
It's not the color screen (Score:4, Interesting)
As for PDAs, I started with a Newton years ago and up through a handspring and a clie, all of which I gave away after a while.
Now I just carry a little Moleskine notebook for PDA-type functions.
Really.
I'm not a Luddite or anti-technology, but the benefit of having a thing full of notes that will never be obsolete or need batteries is strong. (Don't worry, they're overpriced, too, satisfying that "spend" urge. )
For backups, I scan pages that I want to keep. I've even emailed scans to coworkers. It works well, as I have one of those scanners with a "single button scan" setup.
It never crashes and if I lose it, I'm only out the 15 bucks for a new one.
My writing is better, too, as I use the notes I make in the book as a reference when I type it into my powerbook later.
I really love not having to charge it.
No wall-wart to buy funky European adapters for.
Great tactile experience: Good paper that you can use with a fountain pen. It's just the right size. The strap makes a satisfying "snap" sound. It's black. I even sketch occasionally.
For input, my current choice is a sterling silver Parker 75. $40 from an antique shop.
My PDAs were never this useful. No phone interface will ever be this useful, though a camera phone could easily take photos of the pages in the book and mail them to your regular email account or even to your blog as appropriate.
There's also the "cafe coolness" factor. I never felt like really putting thoughts and impressions into my PDA. I do with the notebook. Even an occasional watercolor, though it hasn't replaced my Nikon. It's a pleasure to sit at a cafe and actually WRITE something.
Of course, it doesn't do audio or video, but I have an iPod that I rarely carry anymore and a PowerBook that shows video full-screen when I want that, which never happens to be when I'm out somewhere where I wouldn't have my laptop.
This is great news (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony is wise to exit a market that is oversaturated as is. Let Microsoft and Palm fight over what is left. My guess is that eventually most people will be carrying around something from Casio because the price is right and the functionality is good enough. Palm and Microsoft will lose money fighting over the "road-warriors" which will ultimately lead to Palm going under followed by Microsoft losing interest. A fitting end to the insanity.
Beermats rock! (Score:5, Funny)
In an amazingly cheap package Beermats offer:
- open, multi-language platform
- totally flexible UI
- multi-person visible display surface
- great information exchange function
- unlimited battery life
- great array of games
- OEM-custom skinning
- extremly svelte form-factor.
- comes free with Beer!
And if all of this isn;t enough, power-users can always step up to Backs of Envelopes.
Re:Beermats rock! (Score:3, Funny)
PDA sales are not declining. (Score:3, Insightful)
Market Saturation (Score:5, Interesting)
I think Sony's other mistake (one that PalmOS might be repeating with its next OS) was to not support the Mac platform out of the box. Many Mac users (and I'm including myself here to some degree) are notorious for wanting the latest and greatest gadgets. My first PDA was an early Sony. When I switched to the Mac platform shortly after that I had to buy a third party conduit, which became outdated when I upgraded shortly after that to Mac OS X--and then there was NO conduit I could use, no matter how much I was willing to pay. So after three yearss my Sony PDA outlived my ability to use it with my current computer. When I was ready to replace my Sony CLIE with a new Palmtop, I didn't feel that I could rely on my Sony to be "supported" by even a third party after three years, so I went with another brand.
Alex.
Screen Size matters (Score:5, Insightful)
Because of Moore's law, the gap between PDA and phone has narrowed to the extent that there really isn't one in terms of computing power.
What then, is the difference between a phone and a PDA? Apart from the telephony aspect, the only significant difference is one that will endure - the screen size. When is that significant?
Phones have a maximum screen size of 2 inches. This isn't likely to expand because that's the limit of most peoples pockets, and phones will always have to fit in pockets. PDA's like iPAQ have a screen size of 3.5 inches. When it comes to document and map viewing, that's a lot more than a phone.
PDAs will continue to exist to the extent that map and document viewing proliferates - at least, to the extent that mobile mapping and document viewing applications proliferate that require 3.5 inch displays.
Because smartphones are a bigger market (Score:3, Informative)
In a Swedish newspaper today (SvD) there was a comment on Sony PDAs. They have a deal with Ericsson to produce mobile phones, and that deal forbids them from adding mobile phone functionality to their PDAs. So it is only logical that Sony will add their previous Clie functions into the Sony Ericsson phones instead.
Yes and No (Score:5, Insightful)
Palm is so fucked up right now they don't know the time of day. It kinda reminds me of Apple just when Jobs came back. They have seven models with overlapping features and limit flexability. They need to cut back to three models:
The Tungsten E, priced at $150 and has comes with a universal connecter and has the ability to add in a bluetooth SD card and thumb board. Think of it as the iBook of PDAs. Make it durable and market it to students and first time PDA buyers. Right now Palm's entry level PDA, the Zire 21, is the biggest piece of shit ever dreamed of. It doesn't even have a backlit screen, something they fail to mention anywhere on their website or packaging. Way to piss off the buyer. In contrast the Tungsten E is a very nice little machine (flawed but nice).
The Tungsten C but with the sliding screen of the T3, snap in bluetooth or 802.11x. Think of it as the PowerBook of PDAs
The Treo 600. One crossover phone/pda model.
Palm needs to develope something like Hypercard (the orignal where everyone could build stacks) or buy hypercard from Apple and give it away with every unit they sell. A lot of HC stacks sucked but it created a lot of buzz for the Mac. I make a lot of references to Apple because Jobs (who is a miserable human being) took Apple off it's death bed and turned it into a cash cow. Do they control the PC world? No way. Do they need to? No way. Palm needs to think different.
As for the PocketPC, if they win the PDA wars it will be by default. Palm has the potential of being much better if they can "unfuck" themselves. Don't blame declining PDA sales on the concept of the PDA when the management of these companies are to blame.
Sony killed themselves.... (Score:3, Interesting)
They should have taken a page from HP and released a version of all their pda's that have a camera with a version that does not have the camera. I'm just wanting on HP to release a pda that has 480x640 resolution and I will buy one. This isn't so much HP's faught, but the idot at MS who decided to hard code in the screen resolution at 240x320 into the OS!!! I mean seriously, did they REALLY think that no one would want to use a resolution other then that? Did they believe that LCD screen technology would not continue to inovate and develop higher resolution screens? Or were they simply pressed for time because they were late to market on an immerging new operating system market for mobile devices? I think it was the latter...
Anyway back on topic, I would have been glad to fork over $400-700 for a top of the line clie that had WiFi, bluetooth, a 480x640 3.5" screen, and possibly CF or SDIO memory slot, WITHOUT a camera. Besides if I WANTED a digital camera, I would have just spent the $50 for a similar 1.1 megapixel camera (or modded a Kodak "1 time use" digital camera to a multiuse camera for $25).
Priced in the wrong direction (Score:5, Insightful)
A) I could break it by sitting on it with my massive ass
B) Lose it
C) Someone would be willing to steal it off my person due to it's value.
So I never wanted to risk spending betweeen $200-800 on a PDA in fear that one of the above would happen.
Well eventually a few models would drop down to 129$, and I bought a discontinued Sony Clie. Really cool little gadget. It was cheap, but had practical features. Built-in lithium ion battery with 60+ hours of charge, a simple black and white screen with a indiglo backlight, scroll wheel. I got a lot of use out of the little creature.
Eventually B) happened, I lost it. Was not the end of the world cause it was at a price point I was willing to deal with A, B or C happening to.
So I go out to find me a replacement, at the time, everything had color screens, cameras, mp3 players, etc. All really cool stuff, but it jacked the price up out of my reach.
Then you had the Palm Zire series, certainly cheap. But it had none of the practical features I relied on.
I think we're all attracted to cool, but I'm willing to bet that most people crave cool but buy what they can get by with and afford.
I know Ford sells more cars than Porsche partly cause of this
I think partly this is why the PDA market is drying up, for me, I feel they are pricing themselves out of reach. For people that feel the same as myself, that they're too expensive to risk losing/breaking/having stolen, rather do without than the risk.
Unfortunate, I really liked Monopoly for Palm.
Re:Priced in the wrong direction (Score:3, Funny)
Don't you need Windows to run a monopoly?
Annoying marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
Nearly 4 years later, I _love_ my PDA and can't imagine doing without it. It's a Psion 5mx.
The upright machines have screens small enough that you can't read any colume of data on them and a data entry system that gets fiddly if you're writing anything longer than a shopping list. A keyboard can be fitted, yes, but you have to take it out of your pocket, build the thing and then find a table. In a few hours I'll be at my church with my Psion, taking sermon notes with the Psion resting on my knees.
An upright looks better in the shops because it's cheaper, smaller and appears easier to use on the move - but long-term use shows you've got to be really keen to make it worthwhile, they don't actually fit particularly comfortably in your shirt pocket and that they're far from ideal as anything other than readers. A colour-screened keyboard machine like most of the WinCE machines equally looks better in the shops but is too expensive and eats batteries. WinCE in general tends to look better because they've got more memory and faster processors - but, just like old Windows v anything else battles, poorer design means it _needs_ those higher spec components to be usable - and the trade-off is in lower battery life.
The Psion, when you actually give it a try, has a keyboard I can touchtype on at little less speed than a desktop keyboard, battery life of 2-3 weeks normal use on 2 AAs and a screen I can really read sensible amounts of data on. I've regularly typed notes in meetings and so on on it with no difficulties. It still fits in a jacket pocket, it's cheaper and it's got a pretty good default software bundle. OK, the synchronisation software was, erm, sub-optimal
And it died because the marketers consistently tried to sell machines that look better in the shops but don't actually work as well day-to-day, and the sector's now dying because people are stuck with these poor machines and realising they're poor.
Someone, please, buy up Psion's keyboard patent and build a modern 5 that can sync. It won't be too expensive and it'll just be a lovely machine that will make PDAs worthwhile again.
Time for the Zaurus (Score:4, Insightful)
A Slashdot effect from a few hundred thousand potential buyers' eMail (form) requests [myzaurus.com]
Where's the keyboard!? (Score:3, Insightful)
Only the Psions - now deceased as a range - and the expensive HP Jornadas have this sort of design. IMO we need more. Preferably with modems built in and an ability to sync with a Mac!
MS and Palm are moving too slowly... (Score:4, Insightful)
And with hires screens (640*480, yummy), you can actually see what you are editing.
But Microsoft and Palm are moving much too slowly. New features in PalmOS 5? It's ARM-compatible. New features in Windows Mobile 2003 SE? Landscape support. That's all! They should get off their a**es and improve the devices. What about putting more of the Windows API in Pocket PCs so that apps actually _get_ ported to Pocket PCs? What about speech recognition and dictation? What about making data replication work instead of relying on ActiveSync? etc. etc.
Make PDAs more useful and customers will buy them.
Is it lack of manpower or of imagination?
-mk
My PDA cost $0.89 (Score:3, Insightful)
- Advantages:
- Costs 500-900 times less than a PDA
- Unlimited battery power
- Small, and actually flexible so it's more comfortable in your pocket
- Much easier to write in and read out of than a PDA
- Unique "page" system can contain any kind of information, stored in a particualr 3-dimensional space so you can easily remember where you wrote any particular thing.
- Easily replaced at minimal cost
I am at pains to think of any way in which this rather pedestrian thing has any serious disadvantages over a real PDA. Anything of unlosable importance I copy into my personal wiki or addressbook.yahoo.com. Sure, I've thought about buying a real PDA! I settled on this because I didn't want to get some $300 device lost or stolen on a trip I was taking across Europe (that's what my iPod is for). Some people seem to have etched into their brains that (newer + more expensive + more "advanced") must always == better. Well, I'm here to tell you it's not always the case. Maybe having a PDA just encourages you to keep good habits, and you were drawn into it because you thought it was cool, but you could actually do the same thing more efficiently using something rather old and traditional and inexpensive.Re:My PDA cost $0.89 (Score:3, Insightful)
You can back the damn thing up. $300 is NOTHING compared to the value of the information in my PDA.
PDA's are only useful if you always have them with you, too. What PDA's need, like notebooks, is the transparent bluetooth connection TO the cell phone for data. Those cell phone screens hu
Not really (Score:3, Insightful)
Handspring realized this quite a while ago, and now the fruits of their efforts can be realized in the Treo 600. While not a perfect product, it is probably the best convergence device out there. It runs Palm OS5, but has incredibly strong telephony functions. A lot of people simply love theirs (I'm looking to get one when Verizon certifies it for use on the network, and when my contract expires).
Handspring is now a unit of PalmOne, which does mean that even if the market moves out from under PalmOne, they'll be able to react as necessary. PalmSource also renamed OS5 to Garnet (targeted for less powerhungry cell phones) and OS6 is Cobalt (for the power PDA users).
Symbian enjoys a nice presence with Nokia and S/E phones as well. It might be worth noting with the availability of Palm Garnet and Sony's exit from the PDA space, there remains an unlikely possibility for Sony to continue working with Palm.
The PDA space isn't completely done yet though. Just like any other market, it's probably waiting for its next "killer app." Some other poster mentioned how much the Zire21 sucks. Well yeah, if you're a
Personally, I think PDAs would be able to last a lot longer if Bluetooth was deployed more widely. Think of it: the integration of a PDAphone but the power of having two separate devices. It's quite promising, but the cell phone makers and network providers probably aren't going for it, as it means slightly lower profits. With convergence devices, you have to get them from your provider and instead of buying a $50 phone w/BT you're buying a $200-300 PDAphone with a gimmicky camera and other things. More money for them. Of course there remains the two devices issue, but it would just offer different markets.
evolving (Score:4, Insightful)
This calls for combining functions to decrease number of devices. Ideally all 3 (PDA, iPod and Phone) should be the same device.
It is going in this direction, but not quite there yet. My Clie could play MP3, but battery life and storage size is too small. My iPod could work as address book, but there is no way to edit data on it - only view. My cell phone have some PDA functions, but due to small screen and most importantly poor keyboard they are not really useful.
PDAs will change. Surprise! (Score:4, Interesting)
I've really enjoyed PDAs over the past few years, but This Tungsten C is probably my last. What *I* use my PDA for is keeping track of my contacts and appointments. I also use it for brief emails when there is access to WiFi.
But enhanced cellphones really do this job BETTER. I can dial or message my contacts straight from the addressbook, and there's one less device to carry.
The article is right that PDAs will survive, but I think they'll find new users. As they become available with hard drives, PDAs could become portable (and continuously update-able) manuals, databases, order entry devices, etc. Heavy messaging belongs on small laptops. Contact management and appointments get shunted to cellphones.
PDAs end up being networked business devices: information terminals for people who need portability but aren't doing much content creation. That's the province of laptops and tablet computers, which will get lighter and more powerful. Cellphones are the communications platform (group calendaring is a communications feature). I think most people will prefer their entertainment to be on a dedicated device like an iPod. Who wants to be interrupted by the boss while you're listening to music or watching streaming video? Keep that crap on another box.
Someone mentioned note-taking. Heavy note-taking, such a meeting minutes, is content creation. Use a laptop. I think voice recognition will fill the need for post-it type entries. Dictate to your cellphone, and it gets recorded or dumped to text. MUCH better than Graffiti or a small keyboard, huh?
Apple saw this coming. They were right not to bring Newton 2 to market, cool as I'm sure it would have been.
More a decline in PDAs available. (Score:3, Interesting)
People may say, "hey, why use a Palm when you can use a cell phone or laptop?"
I also have a cell phone that claims to have PDA support. Unless you own a P800 or a P900, the interface on a cellphone is too clunky. Graffiti or the recognizer on a PocketPC will beat the shit out of the tap entry methods that cellphones use. The major cons of the cellphone are that the interface is crap, there isn't a large library of extension software, and it's not easy to sync with my PC.
The cons of a laptop are just as serious. First, they cost about 3-4x the price of even the most fancy 500$ Palm units with built in cameras. They don't really fit in my pocket, either. Even if they could, chances are I wouldn't be able to whip it out and hit a button and have the unit power up in less than 1 second like a Palm does. I'm always having to use a large physical keyboard, even if I'm not seated at a desk or table with a laptop. And chances are I'll have to deal with Windows, unless Apple starts making the units, as Linux doesn't tend to work on a laptop without much messing around. For all the effort, I'd rather have the smaller unit which costs less and Just Works (TM).
Plus, with Bluetooth, my Palm can sync its contacts with the cellphone, control it for outgoing dialing, use it for sending SMS, etc, while it's in my pocket. The PDA interface is much more flexible and has a much larger screen real estate, so it's like I've upgraded my phone without making it into something the size of a brick!
So why choose something that doesn't have these size, speed, and cost benefits? I don't get it.
Usability Insufficient for Casual Users (Score:5, Insightful)
PDAs have saturated the market for users willing to dedicate a substantial amount of effort to overcoming their usability issues. This is a market ripe for Apple to pick up, because the market of casual users is still untapped.
Someone [slashdot.org] else already related how when the battery goes, today's PDAs reset themselves. Glaring usability issue for casual users. I've heard this same complaint from my non-technical friends who tried a PDA, then ditched them in favor of paper and pen. When you are trying to woo people away from an intimate routine in their daily life, at first it is sufficient to offer something that addresses the needs of people trying to solve scalability problems with their routines, like the consultant [slashdot.org] in this thread who has hundreds of contacts they have to keep up with on a monthly basis, or the poster in the healthcare field [slashdot.org] who needs to tote around a small cart of books in their hands. The PDA companies have been selling into business users for the most part, and to continue their growth they have to crack the casual user market.
Business users tend to be willing to put up with a lot that casual users will not. If a business user perceives that they obtain an edge with a particular product or service, they will invest the effort necessary to overcome the idiosyncracies to achieve that edge. Casual users will not, because the product or service is less integral to the happiness of their lives.
That you have to purchase third party applications before you can obtain seamless linking between your day timer and address book drives up the barrier to adoption by casual users. This is what leads to the perception that PDAs are nothing more than DayTimers for gadget freaks. In their default, out of the box configuration, they merely transfer the manual activities of a DayTimer onto an electronic system. That's like asking a company to adopt a computerized accounting system, only to have an army of clerks still manually reconcile accounts instead of hooking into an OFX interface.
Just shrinking the form factor and the price misses the entire point of trying to capture the casual user market.
More than ten years on after the introduction of the original Apple Newton MessagePad, I'm still surprised that neither Palm nor Microsoft have adopted the soups and slots style architecture of the NewtonOS. Today, RDF and XML could be used to implement a similar data presentation architecture, making it more useful outside of the PDA as well. More important than the technical contributions of the Newton however, were some of the marketing insights that were associated with the technical implementation.
The realization by the Newton team that most PDA applications would be relatively Unix-like (small, purpose-built applications) was spot on. The key marketing insight was that for a thriving user base and developer base to grow up around the platform, it had to be technically feasible to organically mold the user experience. It had to be easy and seamless to add functionality for example, to the out of the box address book. Or if you had to replace the address book with a more powerful address book implemented in a completely different way, it had to be easy for other developers to access the new data fields the new address book supports.
Today on PalmOS, there is one-way sharing of data fields. Address and date book replacements (the only way to extend functionality of the built-in applications is to replace them wholesale) can manipulate the built-in data fields, but it requires a separate contract negotiation with the individual developer of the new application (or reverse engineering) to obtain the formats for the additional data fields so that you could use it in yet another application.
The network effects of applications and more importantly
Re:Usability Insufficient for Casual Users (Score:3, Informative)
The PDB format is well-documented [nicholson.com], and yes even the built-in applications' field formats are documented, but have you ever tried to decode say, DateBk4's extended fields, or how SuperNames stores links to other records in other applications? The last time I looked at their EULA's by the way, they would frown if you reverse-engineered those extended fields or proprietary record linking formats, and used what you learned in your own application without asking them first. So even if it was technically feasible
Why should I buy a new PDA.... (Score:3, Insightful)
star trek technology (Score:3, Interesting)
PDA input is awkward still in most cases. We don't have voice input unless you're recording audio - and a specialized device is still better at that. Handwriting recognition is finickey at best, and chic-key keyboards are only marginally better.
It would be my suspicion that PDAs were so wildly popular for a couple years there because of Star Trek and its tricorders - people wanted those nifty tricorders, but jumped the gun a bit. However, PDAs don't have enough practical use for the common person. Even for business use, PDAs seem to be a niche market for those that are more into technology. A pad of paper is often less hastle and more convenient for most folks, what with battery concerns, keeping it from falling on the floor, etc.
I don't think PDAs will become truely useful for most people until they become the "ultimate information tool" with little tinkering - a digital keychain, of sorts. Use it to store your unlock codes for your car, use it as a TV remote, use it as a dictionary, use it with GPS and for referencing city maps, and use it to communicate.
I'm sure there are a lot of interesting, truly useful features which will crop up in the next couple of years. Current phones seem to be going in that general direction, but at htis point they've just got gimicky features - much like the first PDAs were themselves - such as cameras. The market might very well kill itself off (due to the quickly-evolving cell phone networks), but if not, I suspect highly-integrated "communicators/tricorders" will become all the more niche, while most people stick to the phone + camera.
Did PDAs ever get started? (Score:3, Interesting)
Since the early days of these PDA devices, I have always found them to be overrated, lacking in features and too expensive for what they do.
My wife and I own two PDAs, but they both mostly collect dust. I bring mine with us on vacation so that I have easy access to a bunch of information, but that's about it.
I would love to be able to combine my PDA and Cell Phone into a single device. Basically, I want a mobile phone with the 3 basic PDA functions: Contact list, Calendar, Todo list.
However, I have never seen a model that does this well for a decent price.
I see alot of crappy devices with features I don't need: I don't need 16-million battery draining colors, I don't want a video camera in my PDA and an mp3 player is nice but not necessary.
PDAs are simply expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
So, I guess when PDA maker will price them 3-5 times less, they would have no problems to penetrate the market.
Yes, of course, WinCE sucks, too. It's clear people have no use for PDA without any usefull software. That's a moment where platform portability of F/OSS really does count.
With linux I can run almost anything what exists on big machines. I have even a tiny web server and SQL engine running on my iPaq for demonstration. Perfect linux propaganda to impress corporate nuts who are only able to sync their outlook calendar with the same model but running PocketPC.
I find this interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
The Unix model of programming is to have one tool do one thing well and another to do another thing well. This is why so many text editors, etc. The Microsoft model is to have one tool with the kitchen sink and more.
Having a separate phone and PDA neatly fits the Unix model. The phone is there to make calls and can also act as a modem (Bluetooth is your friend). The PDA is for email, contacts, checkbook, notes, etc.
By contrast, smartphones represent Gatesian bloat and feature creep. They are, inevitably, a half-assed kludge of the two that do both things half-assed but neither particularly well. Usually, you end up with a PDA on a cell-phone sized screen.
Sony's failure had nothing to do with the PDA market being dead. Granted, it's not like it was in the boom days, but it's far from dead. No, Sony's latest units were huge, overpriced ($600 or so), and used their proprietary memory format that just happened to cost double or triple what the others did. Hell, the NX60 (?) had a CF slot, but it only accepted Sony's proprietary wifi adapter. A Sandisk CF wifi adapter costs on the order of $30. Sony's cost $150.
Personally, my Palm Tungsten T has all the usual PDA stuff on it (contacts, calendar, note pad, etc.) plus my checkbook, several games, and an MP3 player. Oh, and did I mention that it also has Bluetooth *and* uses industry-standard SD/MMC cards?
Score another one for open standards.
Re:I find this interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Almost.. but not quite.
A mostly-proprietary OS, with no documentation, no public APIs, and everything we've done to make it work with Linux, Unix, and OSX machines, has been reverse-engineered on the wire, byte-for-byte. We've even uncovered some really stupid PalmOS bugs before their own engineers caught them, by using this same methodology. We're already better at compensating for their own bugs and bad data structures in-code, than their own commercial Palm Deskt
Organizing My PDAs or Why I Have None (Score:3, Interesting)
I've had various PDAs; none of them helped me to achieve anything. Most of them were presents that I used for roughly 2-4 weeks after receiving them. Most of the time I used the because I either had nothing to do or during boring lectures when I enterntained myself with some stupid games. With this in mind, I declared PDAs absolutely useless and decided to sell all of them. I have been PDA free for over a year and it feels good.
First of all, PDA means having one more thing that I need to use. If I want to use my cell phone, I need to get the numbers from PDA into the cell phone, if I get a new phone number via a phone call (caller ID), it means that I have to put it into my PDA. Then there is Address Book and iCal that sit on my Application folder on my Mac. I need to syncronize them with my PDA and the phone that has been out of sync with my PDA. The fun never stops. The best part of having a PDA or a cell phone that remembers numbers for you is the fact that you do not know any of the phone numbers!
I decided to cut back on automation once my mom moved into a new house. She had a new phone number that I stored in PDA. I was too freaky lazy to put it into my phone and when I lost the PDA I realized that I did not know my moms phone number. It was the first time in my life when I understood that without that damn PDA I could not call any of my friends. Fuck, that totally sucked!
I sold all my PDAs, got rid of the cell phone (the landline works just as well, thank you very much!) and decided to keep all my information on my computer via Address Book and iCal. My computer is backuped on a regular basis, therefore I am not afraid of losing important information. Moreover, now I am actually forced to memorize phone numbers and it feels great. I can call almost everybody I know without checking some freaking device. I have less things to carry in my pockets and if I am bored while riding a bus, I read.
I do not think that any of PDAs that are currently out on the market can justify their costs. The built-in cameras suck, most of the features are designed either to drain the battery or to purchase more accessories from that specific vendor. Going back to paper organizers was not for me; therefore, I decided to settle for the solution that came with my G4. It is not the best option, but it was there already. I am sure that there are certain products for Windows and *Nix that can do the same thing.
next step of evolution (Score:3, Interesting)
If the second evolution, this is why: PDAs are much more powerful than the data assistants of 5+ years ago, and are even as powerful, if not more powerful than, the desktop processors of the time. They could do a Lot More than they are currently being used for - glorified contact books and notepads, with a little bit of playing cards and fooling around. Even holding a square PDA is a strain on the wrist for a prolonged period of time - it's awkward.
When I bought my laptop, I was looking for something that was ultra portable, sturdy, and had good battery life. I couldn't find anything on the market with a reasonable price which fit my needs and could still serve as a short-term-use device (ie, something I could use for a day or two, and then sync with a workstation/server, only keeping small amounts of work at a time). There is currently nothing in the market which provides a full day's worth of battery life and allows for use as a general use computing device (and by "general computing" I mean geeky shit, not Word and solitaire).
I see the technology employed in handhelds as ideal for this. The Sony Clie Communicator (to be RIP shortly, it would seem), as well as the already extinct clamshell Zaurus were steps in the right direction, I feel - but they stopped short by failing to have a 10-finger keyboard. They also cost obscene amounts of money - largely, I suspect, due to the novelty of such a device.
I imagine there's a fairly large undeveloped market for devices with 4x3 aspect ratio screens with 10-finger typeable keyboards, sturdy construction (aka, TI calculator/gameboy classic sturdy), and day-long portable use characteristics. I can imagine paying $600 for such a device personally - even if the technical specification is less than current 'cutting edge' PDAs - because there is a significant amount of functionality which is gained by having durability and full-fledged typing characteristics.
I imagine an inexpensive solidstate 'laptop'/typeable PDA/palmtop/whatever could be made for under $1000, and maybe even $600, quite reasonably and would see a fair amount of sales, considering the popularity of some similar attempts in the past - the original Libretto, the Fujitsu Lifebook P1000, and any number of others. I imagine the actual cost would be roughly 800$+, though, as demand would likely make them fairly expensive. Considering the cost of a Sony Clie peg-ux50 is $600 and comes with a built-in camera and wireless, and the Zaurus SL-C860 can be found for $700 with much more impressive statistics than the Clie. Here's what I imagine could be made for such a general fee:
- Xscale 400MHz CPU
- 96Mb RAM
- 64Mb storage
- 640x460 res screen of moderate (5"? 6"?) size
- typeable keyboard (large enough for an average person to fit a full set of hands on)
- TypeII CF and SD Card slots
- direct USB connectivity to other devices
- a microphone and an earphone jack
- a reasonably rich operating environment (I'm thinking Linux/Qtopia, as you'd be able to do actual work)
- a sturdy titanium case w/ rubber corner pads
- a 10 hour battery (which the clie communicator has)
- possibly built in wifi, or an easy way to 'perminantly' add it (so as to not require the use of a wifi CF card when a CF storage device is in use)
The basic idea here would be for an ultraportable device which wouldn't need a seperate keyboard, and could be used for a full day's worth of work on a single charge of a standard battery for actual productive work (coding, presentation, whatever). I believe that I've heard there already are similar products in Japan; they just haven't made their way over here yet in serious number.
PDAs will stay, but at a $29.95 price point (Score:3, Interesting)
Anybody remember Hasbro's "Clueless Organizer" [ebay.com], in bright pink, aimed at high school girls?
What we really need is a standard for hot-synching all the low-end devices.
Demand is down because need is down (Score:3, Insightful)
So as such, if sales are down, maybe it's not consumer apathy, but more likely that the consumer doesn't have the need to just replace their external brain arbitrarily?
Palm may be (Score:3, Informative)
Internet and phone connectivity are such a pain to figure out on most models, too, that people don't use PDAs for that. They probably don't prefer the bulky phone-PDA combos, but it's the only thing they can get to work.
I suspect the situation is not much different with PocketPC.
Once PDA manufacturers figure out how to do a better job on the OS and libraries, then the PDA market will pick up again.
The "killer app" for handhelds is... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a quote of Jeff Hawkins', and I've got to believe that it's borne out by the numbers.
Hundreds of millions of cellphones are sold every year, and only in the neighborhood of 100 million PDAs have been sold in total to date.
Then by inference it follows that a killer PDA, one that most people will want to use, should have a phone built into it. And it also appears that the market for devices without a phone has flattened, and manufacturers are turning to PDAs with phones in them, and away from PDAs without phones in them.
Tool not Toy (Score:3, Interesting)
did was dump the Pocket PC crap and
put linux on them. With a pcmcia sleeve,
a 10/100 integrated card, and real
trouble shooting tools like tcpdump.
They are the cat's meow when you find
yourself in drop ceiling with a hub
someone stuck there years ago and forgot
about. Last time I pulled out my PDA
in that situation, the tech I was
working with would have killed for
one. If you are trouble shooting a network
problem that takes you into a attic or
into a crawl space that laptop is
not the animal you want to use.
Install prismstumbler and add a
directional antenna, getting a idea
of what the wireless neighborhood
looks like is a piece of cake.
Contacts, phone numbers, notes hell
I got a cheap Casio device that's
better for that stuff and If it gets
run over by a car tire I'm out less
then $50.00.
Grand Unification (Score:3, Insightful)
People are willing to carry one device.
People want a phone first; an email or computer or music player second; and a camera last.
Whether the name of the rose is "phone that does PDA tasks" or "PDA that does phone tasks", the rose will smell as sweet.
(The real difference being that if the device must have phone service, then a PDA maker becomes nothing more than one more phone manufacturer for the cellular service companies.)
I want a PAD (Score:3, Interesting)
I had a Jordana for several years and recently replaced it with a iPAQ 4150 (the smallest iPAQ with built in wireless lan). I know this will cause a sharp intake of breath, but as I use Windows the integration with Outlook is superb. I love the way I can copy important information on notes in Outlook and I know it will sync automatically onto the PDA. Over and above the usual contact and diary info too of course.
Other functions are less useful, but nice to have. I have written short articles in Word on a PDA - slow, but beats humping the laptop - used the browser (+ mobile phone) to find train timetable information on the move, and used it to keep up with email while on holiday.
But, it could be improved. True portability at PDA size is nice, but I'd sacrifice a little of that for a larger screen. Which brings me back to the Star Trek PADs. The ones they carry around on Enterprise are about twice the size of a PDA, which seems to me to be ideal. A PDA with a 640 x 480 screen at around twice current PDA width would be great. Small enough to be easily portable but big enough not to feel cramped. Ideally it would fold in hald for transport too
Could be true! iPod vs Palm. (Score:3, Interesting)
If the iPod had a way to enter contact and calendar information with using a computer, then I would find little use for my palm other than having my Filemaker databases, word files and few cool games. Syncing the iPod is certainly much faster than syncing my palm.
Are PDAs finished? (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been using PalmOS based PDAs since the fist PalmPilot was released and digital organizers prior to that. I don't leave home without my PDA ever.
I have a very hard time understanding how the average person goes through their day without one. I use mine for contact information, calendaring, games, looking up words (carrying a dictionary with you at all times is absolutely fantastic), cached websites(updated twice a day), belive it or not I use that cheezy mirror program that turns your screen black so you can see your reflection better all the time, universal remote, informational databases, notepad, password storage (how the hell do people remember all of their passwords? I have over 50 passwords and the list is growing), family photos, ebooks,...I could go on but you get the point.
I believe the market has gone sour for a few reasons:
A. Modern cell phones do most of the basic PDA functions. B. Old PDAs do most of the basic PDA functions. C. Most people don't own and have never owned a PDA before so they don't know what their missing.
Like I originally stated however, their just going through a transitional period. Once the technology advances to the point that we have phones with month long power supplies, MP3 players, high quality digital cameras and PDA functionality that will make our current PDAs look like calculators (oh yea, I use my PDA as a calculator as well).
Finished in the US (Score:3, Informative)
Re:PDAS == teh suck (Score:3, Informative)
Mod -1 == Totally Wrong (Score:3, Informative)
For one, you cannot connect devices like keyboards, gpses etc. etc.
Wrong. You can use bluetooth keyboards with many phones.
Can you install a diet program in a phone as easily as in a pda?
Yes. Most phones run either Java, or Symbian, both of which have free SDKs. And there are thousands of apps available.
Can you program your pda?
Yes, see above.
A pda is a programmable computer, can be said the same for a phone (running maybe a proprietary OS) ?
Yes it can. See above.
Re:Why bother? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why bother? (Score:4, Insightful)
My Palm Tungsten T3 has been invaluable to me. Quick note taking, music playing, the odd game here or there, ebooks, internet through bluetooth, etc. All on one device I can fit in my pocket and has 0 startup time.
Why people think laptops are a replacement for this is way beyond me. You want to take a quick note, ok, so you're going to grab your huge laptop, wait for it to boot up, open an application and type it?
Re:Why bother? (Score:3, Interesting)
I keep my comics collection in an excel spreadsheet so when I'm going through 25 cent bins I know exactly what my wantlist is and I don't accidentally buy any duplicates.
I read Project Gutenberg texts and books purchased from Peanut Press (or whatever they're called and whoever they're owned by these days) when I'm shopping with my wife.
I listen to lectures and audiobooks in MP3 format.
I do play games, though not very often.
I write memos and story ideas down on the
Re:Why bother? (Score:3, Interesting)
1) SSH terminal (pockeTTY) for our Linux servers
2) Remote Desktop to our Windows servers
3) Remote support tool for desktop PCs using a