Cometa WiFi Hotspot Network To Shut Down 111
Glenn Fleishman writes "The folks who announced in Dec. 2002 that they would install 20,000 for-fee Wi-Fi hotspots across the U.S. within two years ago reached several hundred locations in 18 months before shutting down today. Cometa Networks was funded partly by Intel Capital, and had AT&T and IBM's involvement in building the network. The firm resold access to its network, and urged partners to charge low rates, like $3 to $5 per day or $12 per month for unlimited access. Cometa lost its best chance for a big network last month, when McDonald's picked Wayport to build out over 12,000 Wi-Fi hotspots in the U.S." There's now an official press release up, with the CEO noting: "We do not think this reflects on the strength of the Wi-Fi industry or value proposition."
A glimpse at their business plan (Score:5, Funny)
2. Give away free Internet access at these sites
3.
4. Profit!
for fee is different than for free (Score:5, Interesting)
No, fee is different than free. Even the /. write-up said "that they would install 20,000 for-fee Wi-Fi hotspots across the U.S. within two years". I think the real issue with the business plan was that they expected people to pay too much for too little.
Re:for fee is different than for free (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:for fee is different than for free (Score:1, Insightful)
Remember most people at MCDonalds don't own a laptop, and if they do, they dont take it with them when they are eating.
And this case [yarchive.net] says it all about the intelligence of the average McDonalds customer.
Re:for fee is different than for free (Score:1, Informative)
1. Customers with wireless PDAs who can very easily check mail while having a fast meal or even waiting in line.
2. McD employees with laptops. There was an actual article somewhere talking about how McDonalds managers roam among restaurants doing administrative tasks with their laptops and checking in with the mother ship. The wireless network is already a paid-for asset to the McDonal
Re:for fee is different than for free (Score:2)
Could it be that WiFi-at-McDonalds is cool, but also worthless?
Re:for fee is different than for free (Score:1)
Re:for fee is different than for free (Score:2)
Re:A glimpse at their business plan (Score:2)
Um. The business case was for-fee not for-free
A glimps at ptomblin's business plan (Score:2)
Actualy, I made the same mistake as you, for what it's worth. But I was able to figure out what was going on by reading the rest of the blurb...
A real business plan ... (Score:1)
2. Give away free Internet access at these sites
3. Eliminate "Supersize" and reduce portions
4. Profit!
(thanks, McDonalds!)
Re:A practical question... (Score:1)
Am I missing something? It seems pretty easy.
Hmm. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hmm. (Score:2, Funny)
Wow. Great comment!
How do you feel about WiFi that costs money?
The firm resold access to its network, and urged partners to charge low rates, like $3 to $5 per day or $12 per month for unlimited access.
--
I wish "first posters" would at least read the summary.
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree; handing out free WiFi is a great business model, it's just that the wrong business is providing it. Instead of some corporation trying to make money by setting up large networks of hotspots, local coffee shops(or even chains) should spend $60-$100 a month to get a DSL line and WiFi router (I know the Speakeasy TOS allows for this) and let the local patrons use it for free. Coffee shops and cafes are favorite places to do work and relax and making the atmosphere/conditions more desirable are well worth the cost.
Worried about freeloaders? Then change the password on the AP every day, and print it on every receipt. Seems like a great business model to increase your customer base as a cafe.
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Insightful)
Finally, somebody that understands the concept. Wi-fi is not a business unto itself, it's a value add service that is part of the package for a real business. Take the coffee shop example, who wants to spend 10 bucks to get online for 20 minutes while you drink a coffee you bought for $2 ? It doesn't make sense. On the other hand, the coffee shop owner that has wi-fi in his coffee shop will have more traffic.
For this business though, wide open access doesn't really do the job, because it allows non customers to use and plug up the internet pipe, which is why you need a controlled access sytem of some kind, ie a captive portal setup. problem is, mention 'captive portal' to your average coffee shop owner, and thier eyes go all glossy.
I've installed a couple of these [ganleysystems.com]for clients, and they love it. A simple appliance that they can use to control who uses the hotspot, but it doesn't have the fees associated with it like the mainstream ones do, ie no subscriptions. One client gives away the tickets to anybody that buys a meal, and the other one is selling them for a buck. They just printed off a bunch of the access tickets it generates, and keep em at the cash register.
Wi-fi is a value add to an existing real business, and most of the hotspot chains are realizing that. There's a lot more of them showing up on fuckedcompany.com than there is showing up in forbes....
Re:Hmm. (Score:1)
Thanks,
Sooth...
Re:Hmm. (Score:1)
http://www.nycwireless.net/pebble/ [nycwireless.net]
open source read-only distro for installation in embedded access points, used throughout nyc for FREE accessRe:Hmm. (Score:1)
http://www.boingo.com had an interesting system, but it isn't what we wanted.
We were looking for a system whereby the owner or the Accss Point would give out free limited access to everyone but charge a nominal fee for broadband access with greater throughput.
If I couldn't find it I'd be building it.
Sooth...
Wi-Fi is not just an add-on (Score:1)
I guess in the heat of the moment, we often forget that Wi-Fi essentially is wireless LAN. Think of a place like India say, where the majority of computerisation of organisations is still to happen. Don't you think that if I company were to take up the business of providing Wi-Fi solutions to organisations, even to users who want a wireless home, they
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Interesting)
The T-Mobile stuff has two big problems- too expensive and not nearly enough hot spots. There is no way I'm paying their rates and only have access at Starbucks and a few select airport areas, etc.
By the same token, any business owner should feel free to offer free WiFi in the hopes of attracting more customers- it costs very little for a small business- simply corporate grade DSL and a bit of hardware.
Re:Hmm. (Score:2)
It probably costs businesses more trying to charge for WiFi.
Re:Hmm. (Score:2)
(i) Airconditiong/heating cannot be controlled easily. You either have to heat the whole building/store/whatever or you don't. Anyone that walks into the store/building/whatever will benefit whether they want to or not.
(ii) Wi-Fi costs are variable (although I'm not sure if this is significant). Heating/airconditioning is fixed. If everyone starts using Wi-Fi, the costs will go up (at least for the bandwidth).
And Once again. (Score:3, Insightful)
This is no different then free web space, free storage, or free internet. All of these glorious ideas have fallen by the wayside when people realized they could not be profitable.
Welcome, WAP, to this cruel cruel world.
Re:And Once again. (Score:1)
Re:And Once again. (Score:2)
Are you implying that you can always find something to counter any argument?
Re:And Once again. (Score:4, Insightful)
Right, so car dealerships should charge people for those hot dogs they give out on Sunday, and all those grocery stores that draw business using freebie promotions should stop, because it doesn't work.
Except it does. When your business model revolves around nothing but giving away crap, then yes, you are screwed. When you use free crap to leverage non-free crap (coffee and sandwiches), then you have what we know as an 'advertising expense'. $200 a month for a WiFi hotspot near a business park or university could easily earn ten times that back in increased customer flow.
People with laptops have spare change, usually, and are not likely to sit at a cafe for four hours and *not* purchase a few cups of coffee.
Re:And Once again. (Score:1)
Unless there is some viable way to make money
I believe that cars and grocery stores both have those. I was under the impression that the WiFi was ad based. Turns out I was wrong. Stayed tuned because I promise that will happen again.
Re:And Once again. (Score:2)
For-fee (Score:4, Funny)
I think their problem was that people kept seeing "for-fee" and thinking it said "for-free", and so they never got paid.
Re:And Once again. (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I know why this happened! (Score:4, Interesting)
Gosh (Score:1)
Well, maybe not any more... but I know with the whole Raw Sockets debacle, they were very much talking like this guy is (of course grc.com has that story, I'm not sure how much credit people give him).
Makes me glad I'm not using wireless... How dumb do you have to be?
Great, leave your network open... Then when Comcast shuts down your internet connection 'cause people were doing illegal stu
A Better Plan (Score:5, Insightful)
2) Help them build it
3) Tie them togther
4) Enjoy
Personal Telco Project [personaltelco.net]
"Making tomorrows today yesterday"
Re:A Better Plan (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A Better Plan (Score:1)
Re:A Better Plan (Score:2)
Most of our nodes dont block ports except for maybe 25. Everything else is open once you hit the I Agree button.
We dont ask for a Name, Password, SS#, Credit Card or Blood Sample... Just that you agree not to break things and if you do a crime on the net its your ass your hanging.. AUPs are a nice thing.
What node are you running?
Re:A Better Plan (Score:1)
Ted
5.) Watch them get booted by their ISPs... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:5.) Watch them get booted by their ISPs... (Score:2)
Some folks actualy READ the TOS before buying (Score:2)
Here in Portland OR we have Easystreet, Spirtech, Integra, Speakeasy and a bunch more who have put down policy to allow folks to use what they buy as they see fit.
Yea I know its not for everyone, I know most would rather stay stupid and smile a big cheesey white glitter tooth for the mass consumption media.."
Re:A Better Plan (Score:1)
You can be as altrusitic as you like -- as long as someone's going to fund your altrusim...
Re:A Better Plan (Score:1)
All you need to set up your own HotSpot is
* An Internet connection
* An old PC ($25 from a garage sale)
* An access point (Available from $100)
The users database can be stored in Radius, MySQL, PAM or LDAP.
Removing my speech impediment... (Score:2, Informative)
This is no different then free web space, free storage, or free internet. All of these glorious ideas have fallen by the wayside when people realized they could not be profitable.
Welcome, WAP, to this cruel cruel world.
Fee, Fee Fee Foe Foe Foe....After rereading said post and getting some language lessons, I would like to strike my previous post from the record.
Good thing the story wasn't about apples
How about we just read the Slashdot post? (Score:4, Informative)
RTFWU (Score:2, Insightful)
(Read the F***ing Write Up)
The hotspots were for fee, not for free. They were charging for wi-fi access.
Nathan
An issue arising (Score:4, Insightful)
Cellphone companies seem to manage it. (Score:2)
Re:Cellphone companies seem to manage it. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Don't worry (Score:2)
Free Fees and you and me (Score:5, Insightful)
With Free Community Wireless Networking the cost of backhaul and Equipment to cover a small area (commercial frontage, public use space, dwelling) can often be either recovered by increased biz or absorbed as the cost of being a good neighbor.
Just as Movie Theaters saw dramtic increases in summer time viewers with the inclusion of Air Conditioning so too are some biz and public spaces finding an increase base of use withthe draw of Free Wireless.
Living in Portland OR and being a part of the Personal Telco Project I can say this as a proven fact and not simply as some slashrot debate point. The places where we have nodes [personaltelco.net] are seeing marked increases in their customer base. Several places we have put nodes in have become social centers for nomad laptop workers.
The problem with the Fee plans are that they simply will not wake up to the fact that customers will not pay for something that will quickly be seen on par with Lighting, AC, a glass of water, background music and those cool drink umbrellas.
Wake up Biz People....The writting is not only on the wall its on your bottom line.
Re:Free Fees and you and me (Score:1)
Re:Agreed (Score:2)
For one, I'm already paying $30/mo for broadband at home, so I can just make my own coffee and use my own internet access. My kitchen has a better atmosphere, anyway.
For two, they are competing with a whole slew of independent or small roaster coffee shops that offer better coffee, are much mor
Re:Agreed (Score:2)
Re:Agreed (Score:2)
look here to see for yourself. 29.99 a month on annual contract, 39.99 monthly....
Commercial WiFi: Dead or Thriving? (Score:2)
I'm especially surprised that Intel, one of Cometa's investors, let the venture go under. Intel seems to be giving away WiFi chips to help sell Centrino CPUs and would se
We need wifi roaming. (Score:4, Insightful)
What we need is some sort of profit sharing system, similar to how the cellphone system works. And it should be an open system, so that anyone can sign up to be a part. It would also be great in that anyone could make money simply by signing up and setting up WAPs, without worrying about how they are going to bill people.
And let me apologize, I don't have access to a spellchecker right now.
Re:We need wifi roaming. (Score:1)
Nor did you when you typed your
;-)
Re:We need wifi roaming. (Score:2)
Cometa FREE Wifi in my area (Score:2, Interesting)
too bad (not really) (Score:5, Interesting)
Now I know that it was a trial location, and this was possibly one of the reasons that McDs went with the other company, but I'm not so sure I'm sad that a company whose security on their APs was so lax to go out of business.
I mean, open APs are nice, but its really not in the public good, becuase they would have ended up getting abused for spammers and warez and such.
(and yes, it was Cometa, because the little card has their logo on it)
oh well...my $0.02
Here is what I found rather strange (Score:3, Interesting)
Now tell me what the competative advantage to having 3 sites with an average of 12 people in a location. I have never understood the advantage of building hugely distributed teams - I've worked in them... I have also worked on very localized teams (everyone on the same part of the same floor of the same building) - I have yet to see a distributed team that can match a localized team
Re:Here is what I found rather strange (Score:1)
More dead cable (Score:1)
The same thing seems to be happening with wireless data services - both wi-fi and cellular (3G anyone) - the bandwagon is rolling.
Odd... (Score:2)
"We've built a profitable business in the Seattle test market and to go national requires additional capital," Hellebust said. The company was unable to obtain the capital necessary for this expansion, and will wind down operations
If the business was profitable in the Seattle test market....why close it down? Why not just let reserves build up gradually and then expand organically instead of in a couple of giant leaps?
Methinks that it wasn't
BigMac Eats Cometa (Score:3, Funny)
Well, as a Cometa subscriber... (Score:2)
Ah well, the new downtown Seattle library is opening this week, and they're supposed to have a free hotspot...maybe that will work.
Truckstop (Score:2, Interesting)
You can get to a nifty map on th
"within two years ago"? (Score:2)
Chunks of debris (Score:4, Insightful)
If you bought access for a large group of travelers or were somehow able to use the hotspots for all of your high-speed access needs the prices might not be so bad. For me and I'd assume a lot of other people that is way too much damn money. I might be willing to pay $12 a month for unlimited access but there is no way I'd fork over more than $20 a month. I've got WiFi access at my house with a faster connection than most hotspots I've come across.
I'd sign up for a month-to-month contract is a heartbeat if it offered wide coverage and a low monthly cost. As it is I rarely use WiFi hotspots because of the price and inconvenience. It is really nice to be able to use WiFi internet access but I'm fine just listening to shared iTunes playlists.
Re:Chunks of debris (Score:2)
Boingo Wireless resells Wayport's service for $21.95 per month (month to month, no cancellation fee; $34.95 per month after 12 months) along wi
Re:Chunks of debris (Score:2)
Sorry but Boingo's service is not compatible with my computer. I should not have to download their special software to access their network. If they can't figure out a way to sell me connectivity without their software I'm not intereste
Re:Chunks of debris (Score:2)
My point, in brief: pricing is heading do
Re:Chunks of debris (Score:2)
WiFi hot spots aren't exactly lowering their prices either. Because Boingo has a subsidized network they're offering cheap but limited access to doesn't mean the core networks are lowering their prices. Boi
Re:Shame about B&N's (Score:1)
Starbucks could've locked down the coffee shop market even more had they gone with a cheaper provider (not that they really needed to). Well, at least this gives local, independent coffee shops a chance at competing by offering free Wifi. I wonder if Coffee Bean
Problems with Wi-FI (Score:3, Interesting)
i. Too many competing WAPs (i.e. wireless providers) basically means that you can't roam. This problem exists in the cellphone world as well but they are trying some things to overcome. For Wi-Fi to take off, it would be desirable for people to roam between stores without paying for each one. Note: I am only talking about non-free (possibly low cost) Wi-Fi here. Obviously if it is free, this isn't an issue.
ii. The second thing, which is probably the biggest, is that the number of people using Wi-Fi has to increase. In other words, more people need to be carrying around notebook computers, (future) PDAs, etc. Right now, I don't think enough people have portable computers for this to really matter. Granted, professionals and IT people, along with some computer-savvy people, may carry their notebooks all the time, but most don't. At best, wi-fi will only be a small market for now. Until more people starting using portable computers with wi-fi capabilities, it won't take off. The fact that McDonald's is rolling this out will have little impact IMO since most of their customers don't carry notebooks around. Lastly, if only a few people benefit from wi-fi, then the cost will always be too high--critical mass won't be reached.
Having said all this, I am NOT saying wi-fi won't take off. I do expect it to become popular in 5 years or so, especially when wi-fi is a standard for home networking and workplace too. All I'm saying is that whoever that uses wi-fi now will not make any money. Those in the market will probably lose money for years but will definitely get some technical advantage.
Has to be offered as an add-on feature (Score:3)
Sometime in the last 2 years they started offering the service free. Guess what, a lot of people came in with their laptops, like me, and used it and purchased coffee. I might even stay a couple hours while doing work and then purchase lunch. And I would go to this coffee house over a couple others because of the free access. They probably paid half their BW bill a month from me alone purchasing additional goods.
Now there are several other coffee houses that offer the same free service. So I pick based on which is closest. Same with Hotels. Its a cheap way to offer high speed access to many guests. I know its something I look for in business travel.
But none of these services give away the service or get revenue directly from the wifi access, however they do get additional customer loyality and usage because its there.
Re:How to make money from wireless networks (Score:1)
Gee- and then you have McDonald's- giving out 2 hours of access with an extra value meal.