Gas Plasma Antennas Help Wi-Fi Security 163
mindless4210 writes "Markland Technologies has developed a new gas plasma antenna technology which could help to secure wireless networks. The technology allows for highly directive and electronically steerable digital data transmission via solid-state semi conductor based plasma generators. A plasma antenna can reposition itself at very high speeds, as well as change it's beamwidth and bandwidth, creating spatial and spectral security features which are not presently available with conventional WiFi antenna technology."
Now you see it...... (Score:5, Informative)
Happy Trails!
Erick
My brain hurts (Score:1)
Re:My brain hurts (Score:5, Informative)
Happy Trails!
Erick
Re:My brain hurts (Score:2)
Re:My brain hurts (Score:1)
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Doesn't really help me understand anything...
Re:My brain hurts (Score:2)
Re:My brain hurts (Score:4, Informative)
Re:My brain hurts (Score:2)
Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2, Funny)
And so will the VC money.
Re:Now you see it...... (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree though, this is really fricking cool. With the right controls, you could make it so that the antenna characteristics change over time according to a pattern known only to those posessing the corresponding private key. Interception is harder and, even if it is intercepted, you could theoretically use this as one additional encryption layer.
Re:Now you see it...... (Score:1, Funny)
Why? Is there Slashdot after death?
Re:Now you see it...... (Score:1)
It's only cool if your head isn't in the beam (Score:1, Funny)
Hmmm. Of course, that could be useful to some nefarious people. Like setting one up so that the antenna points at your PHB and doses him with constant microwave radiation for 8 hours a day.
This could take the military concept of "fragging" to a new level (not that I'm suggesting such of course).
Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Holy shit, sir. Did you see that bright bluish light over there, it lasted for 5 seconds then blinked out. I must have been seeing things.
So how do you steer it??? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So how do you steer it??? (Score:1)
Would also work if you compared triangulation data of two of these against a map of wireless authorized zones, then just send security after every client not in an approved zone.
Re:So how do you steer it??? (Score:1)
> you: "There's the bloke viewing pron".
And since when did God get upset a having somebody admire the perfect breasts of his creation?
Re:So how do you steer it??? (Score:1)
(Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was largely composed of sand, which is chock full of silicon. And Man saw the silicon and said "Cool. I could make a great pair of hooters out of that")
Re:So how do you steer it??? (Score:2)
Re:Now you see it...... (disrupt snoopers too) (Score:2)
More than just disappear when not in use, it could potentially disrupt snopper while in use. While locked on to a legitimate user, the antenna could change the beam pattern in other directions to disrupt snoopers. Only a snooper that is roughly in the line from antenna to legitimate user would be able to get a consistent signal.
Re:Now you see it...... (Score:3, Informative)
No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Well, I think it's a bit better than that- a base station with this technology can probably work out the distance as well as the angle- the antenna forms a spatially distributed antenna and hence can measure the phase and intensity and show where the user is.
there is the issu
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Base stations would be the logical place to use these things, yes, but how is it going to work out the range? You can get a line of position from your phased array, but that alone won't give you a range. You could, I suppose, ballpark it from relati
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
If you think about it, the wavefront from the trasnmitter has to hit the different parts of the antenna at the 'right' time- it's critically phase dependent- the wavelength of 2.5Ghz is about 15cm, so you can measure the distance to within a fraction of that.
Basically the bigger the antenna is, the further away you can distinguish the distance. In a fairly real sense you are doing triangulation/t
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Yes, sort of, that's how we can use a phased array to get a line of position. We have several physical antennas in an array and can calculate the direction of an incomming signal based on the phase difference between the antennas. You can see an exa
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
It's decidedly more exotic than the 18 element Yagi I've used for 2.4 gig work, or the 5 element phased array I've used fox hunting.
You still seem to be missing the point- this system is electronically steerable. Sure there are other ways to do that with switchable antennas, or physical steering, but this is another way.
This technique does not give a range. Only
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
No, no. I got the point. You're missing mine - that an electronically steerable plasma grating is more exotic than a conventional antenna array.
Didn't say it wasn't cool or wouldn't work. I said it's hungry in both computing power and energy consumption, and simpler solutions exist.
It's cool, but it's not especial
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
That's not correct. The analogy is not exact, but that's approximately the way GPS works.
It's just like focusing in the optical domain- you can focus a phased array a fixed distance away, rather than at infinity.
You se
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
That's not correct. The analogy is not exact, but that's approximately the way GPS works.
Well, actually, if you look at what I said, it is correct. You're not going to get range from the phase. GPS works (horribly over-simplified here, obviously) with each satellite in the constellation saying "I am here now" and the receiver being able to work out the trig based on the time and location for each bird it's watchi
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Well, you're assuming that wired is secure- unless you're using Tempest shielding evesdropping is reasonably easy even with wired.
Basically security isn't all or nothing, ever.
In this case, forbidding/ignoring traffic from outside a configured physical perimeter would indeed result in more security for the network in many cases- it prevents people from injecting traffic to your network as well as improving throughput.
it should be marginally more efficient - and more
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
I assume only that wired is inherently more secure than wireless. Wireless interception requires no physical access and is trivial to do remotely.
Tempest monitoring is non-trivial these days. With the level of emissions dropping lower and lower from modern computer systems, the sensitivity and signal processing power required to to electronic eavesdropping is getting higher
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Utter coddswallop. Neither the receive, nor transmit function works unless you have correct phase shift at each emitter. That's the whole point of a phased array. That's where the name "phased element array" comes from. If you have no phase shift then your antenna will work extremely poorly if at all.
No, it has become clear to me that you fundamentally don't understand phased arrays in general.
I've actually (i
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Utter coddswallop. Neither the receive, nor transmit function works unless you have correct phase shift at each emitter. That's the whole point of a phased array. That's where the name "phased element array" comes from. If you have no phase shift then your antenna will work extremely poorly if at all.
You know, most of the antennas I've built, including the phased array for fox hunting, work quite well. Transmit and receive functions don't work without proper phase shift? Really? Amazing. So
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Yes, I expect it was fixed phase shift, which is correct for that- for a physically steered antenna. That says nothing about the general case of phased element array, which includes active elements with electronic phase shifting; the plasma reflector is an example of that. That's how you can arrange for electronic streering.
But neither of them are securing the wireless part of your network.
Correct! I
Re:No, no Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
Actually, no, but it was designed for mobile operation since I can get better results with other systems.
And which is it? Is the plasma antenna a reflector or a phased array? They'r
Re:Now you see it...... (Score:2)
D.
Sounds great. (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait. I see. It's a press release from a startup company. Never mind.
Re:Sounds great. (Score:2)
Re:Sounds great. (Score:1)
There's a huge difference between healthy skepticism and brain dead cynicism.
Maybe it makes no difference to you, but knowing abount new technologies that have the potential to be an inflection point for multiple device technologies is something that I at least want to be aware of.
If you reconfigure the modulators (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If you reconfigure the modulators (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:If you reconfigure the modulators (Score:2)
Re:If you reconfigure the modulators (Score:1)
If you reconfigure the primary deflector array into an interplexing beacon, you can avoid that problem entirely.
LK
Re:If you reconfigure the modulators (Score:2)
Re:If you reconfigure the modulators (Score:3, Funny)
Riker: (looks interested but clueless)
Worf: Sir, there is no honour in this. Let me go over there and rip their PDA's from their little haxor hands.
Picard: (as clueless as Riker, but forced to make a decision). "No Mr. Worf. We must do this without vio
Are We Ready for This? (Score:2, Informative)
Fluorescent bulbs use this sort of principle, too - surely our new gas-plasma antennas aren't to be made of glass?
Hrm. Perhaps they are.
They forgot the best feature of all (Score:5, Funny)
creating spatial and spectral security features (Score:4, Funny)
Re:creating spatial and spectral security features (Score:1)
Re:creating spatial and spectral security features (Score:5, Informative)
Spatial security == the beam goes where you want, as opposed to all over the place.
Spectral security == the edges of the beam spectrum are very well defined, with very little "spill" into neighboring frequencies.
Re:creating spatial and spectral security features (Score:1, Insightful)
I've got a great new technology for achieving spatial security. It guarantees that my Ethernet frames go exactly where I want, and can't be snooped outside my house.
Spectral security
My great new technology also avoids generating a lot of RF outside its proper spectrum, as well as resists interference from outside.
My great new technology is called CAT 5 cable.
Directional arials... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Directional arials... (Score:4, Informative)
Just because it's not a solid doesn't make it spooky or virtual...
virtual radio telescopes could be of practically unlimited size, by this arrangement.
Not really, since the plasma has to be kept "hot" and at low pressures in order to prevent it from recombining back into "normal" uncharged matter again. A device capable of maintaining such a large plasma would require enormous amounts of power and maintainence.
Re:Directional arials... (Score:2, Interesting)
That would be one hell of a security measure, alerting security to the exact location of every wi-fi client not in a known approved area.
Re:Directional arials... (Score:1)
Re:Directional arials... (Score:1)
Plasma antennas... (Score:1, Informative)
Access points (Score:2, Interesting)
Markland Technologies (Score:5, Interesting)
Their other products in the emerging technologies section include Acoustic Core [marklandtech.com] - detecting illicit materials using their acoustic signatures, Vapour Trace [marklandtech.com] - a way to search cargo for contraband materials and Crypto.Com [marklandtech.com] - a double cipher keyless transmission system.
Thats a lot of cool science and technology for a relatively unheard of company, not to mention their technologies in the Border Security and Chemical Detection systems.
I had read a while back [usatoday.com] about the CIA and US Govt investing in startups - I think its quite possible that these guys are probably funded thus
Kinda cool yet spooky.
Re:Markland Technologies (Score:3, Interesting)
I had read a while back about the CIA and US Govt investing in startups - I think its quite possible that these guys are probably funded thus :)
In-Q-Tel [in-q-tel.com] makes no secret of the companies it invests in [in-q-tel.com], though they are very careful with their money and perform a lot of due-diligence before making any investment. And to be pedantic, In-Q-Tel is not a Governmental agency, they just happen to concentrate their activity based on the needs of the Defense-Intelligence community. The company I work for [basistech.com] is one o
Re:Markland Technologies (Score:2)
I was somehow under the impression that they would not really make their investments public, but I see no reason why they should not, so it makes sense.
I was not aware that In-Q-Tel was a seperate entity in itself, I always thought of it as being an arm of the CIA.
There are lots of programs in the Department of Defence that companies can apply to in order to get research money: you just need to know which back to scratch and get yourself noticed.
Just out of curiosity, any that you can th
Re:Markland Technologies (Score:1)
They don't appear to have any crypto experts on their management team.
They seem to be trying (and failing) to register Matt Blaze's long-standing crypto.com url as a trademark [uspto.gov]. They use crypto.com in their documentation as if they owned the url. I don't see a link between Blaze and Markland, but perhaps there is one, although Markland seems to have picked up the Crypto.Com from their subsidiary ERGO Systems, which has been involved in port security for Homeland Security.
Re:Markland Technologies (Score:2)
Is Eurotech related to these guys, or is something really fishy here?
Re:Markland Technologies (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Markland Technologies (Score:2)
They have a powerpoint on their Vapour Trace site that talks about how they have developed a new polymer that can detect contraband, while the material itself can be queried using RF signals.
I have not checked, but they seem to project this as a major step in vapour trace technology, and they may quite possibly have some patents to this end - I'm assuming, o
I can see it now (Score:5, Funny)
I can generate my own gas plasma antenna... (Score:1, Funny)
Lamest security claim of the century? (Score:5, Interesting)
The one place where this could have some good security uses is for undetectable transmission, which is probably interesting to the military.
Of course, directional broadcasting has a whole set of real benefits, such as getting more bandwidth by allowing more transmitters in the same region, minimizing interference, minimizing radiation output, etc. But to call this a security feature? I guess the "everything good is a security feature" is the parallel to "everything bad is terrorist" idea which seems popular lately.
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Create a WAP [chiralsoftware.net] server
Directional Antennas are the future (Score:3, Insightful)
The thing that is exciting about this is the field of research that it opens up. Of course, directional comm antennas have been around for quite some time, but building networks out of them is relatively new. Do a literature search
Try again (Score:2, Interesting)
1. You mentioned the problem of objects in the way, especially reflective ones. For transmission in both cities and non flat terrain, the path of radio signals to the recever frequently travel along paths that include reflections as opposed to straight from the transmitter. This is not changed by the directional signal; the transmi
Military applications (Score:2, Informative)
Vaporware (Score:5, Insightful)
And safer.
Re:Vaporware (Score:4, Informative)
There's also the weight and size issue, with the plasma coming in both lighter and smaller to an equivalent conventional one.
But you're right of course that it will be a while or perhaps never that it will be just as easy or easier to work with plasma. So you might not see one on a $10 walkman, but that's not to say that there aren't a lot of applications where the benefits would afar outweight the difficulty.
Re:Vaporware (Score:2)
Greetings from Tokyo and all the members of TIARA (Tokyo International Amateur Radio Association). I know I promised you a series of articles on Japanese amateur radio, but there is something so exciting I just have to take a break and tell you about it.
It all started with the work that Ed Coan (AH7L/7J1AAE) did on antenna pattern plotting using his personal computer and the A-to-D converter in his FT-1000. The circular, and even backward antenna patterns of some of ou
I need to get one of those. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I need to get one of those. (Score:1)
Great! (Score:2)
If it works, why this application? (Score:3, Interesting)
The "war on terror" is turning into a pork program.
Re:If it works, why this application? (Score:2)
See the bright side of it... maybe it means the talking heads are realizing the "war on drugs" is dead.
would you believe a flame speaker? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:would you believe a flame speaker? (Score:1)
I imagine the hot light at a KrispyKreme (Score:1)
I wonder if the technology can be retrofitted to existing Neon signs. One of the main drawbacks to wifi is its relatively limited range and the cost of a decent antenna(cantennas excluded as these really aren't viable from an enterprise or business standpoint....think permenant installation)
If every neon sign could be used as an antenna...think of all the coverage we could have. Vegas could work with Intel(centrino) to become the first unwired city. Get all
What about signal gain? (Score:1)
First impression (Score:1)
Yeah, so it was a long day at work..
Is that all? (Score:4, Funny)
solution in search of a problem (Score:5, Interesting)
This company has a solution in search of a problem, and they are trying to drum up businesses. Plasma antennas are interesting for 1960's style radio transmissions and stealth, but they have little significance to 21st century wireless communications.
Is it just me, or is this stuff AWESOME? (Score:2)
And the good news is that so many of these technologies have as many uses for good as they do for evil!
Gas Plasma not neccessary. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Gas Plasma not neccessary. (Score:1)
All with no moving parts, and sub-millisecond times to "rotate" the antenna..
Like one of those advanced phased arrays that the military uses, but in something the size of a hand held radio.
I wonder if... (Score:2, Funny)
Oil of Snake (Score:4, Insightful)
Another minor issue -- what's a plasma? Ionized gas, right? How do you ionize gas? By passing current through it. That gives you a large plasma arc. Gee, I wonder if just possibly that arc might be generating RF on its own? Any guesses on DC to light (literally -- gas discharge lamps give off quite characteristic spectra)? That arc is a very wideband RF source.
You're telling me you're going to hook up a sensitive receiver to a gas arc, and it's going to work? Or you're going to hook up a transmitter to a gas arc, and the extra power from the transmitter isn't going to alter the characteristics of the plasma?
Kind of like playing the violin while sitting atop a foghorn...
Speakers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Speakers (Score:1)
Something Similar Exists... (Score:3, Interesting)
Several designs for these have been written up and have even produced comercially in Europe. U.S. Safety laws have prevented them from being sold in Amercia, however some enterprising scientists have built their own for fun.
If the surface or volume of the plasma ball can conduct, it can be used as a radiator of RF, one that can have its shape dynamically changed by the above technique.
Errr ... (Score:2, Funny)
Anyway, this would be a cool technology. Someone spying on your WiFi network? Send some gas plasma in his direction and watch the fireworks
Re:Errr ... (Score:2)
It wouldn't matter, they would have changed the laws of physics back again in time for the next episode.
Plasma isn't technically a gas, it's a different phase, but sort of acts like a wet gas - you see it in flouresant lights and hot plasma is often used to cut steel in industry (plasma cutter).
Backscattering (Score:1, Informative)
At microwave frequencies (at which Wi-Fi operates), just about every object scatters (reflects, diffracts) incident radiation. As a matter of fact, many RF antenna designs are "parasitically" directional, but rely on backscattering to produce a more omnidirectional response.
Assuming that an adapative antenna array (which seems to be what the original press release describes) can target a specific client, sensitive near neighbors will inevitably be able to eavesdrop. Furthermo
Hmmmm... (Score:1)
No metal (Score:1)
Plasma antennas not for WiFi (Score:2)
Directivity comes at the cost of size. Sure you want 30dBi gain for your WiFi, I'll build it for you, but it'll be at least 10 wavelengths in size (1.25 metres for 2.4GHz WiFi). The only applications I see permi