Review: LinuxCertified LC2210 Laptop 155
'It's me' writes "OSNews reviews LinuxCertified's LC2210 laptop, which comes with Xandros Desktop 2.0. That laptop is meant to be 100% certified with Linux, but Xandros seemed to have problems with it (namely there is no "sleep" function, while WiFi was not as robust as users would want it). LinuxCertified said that newer distros should be able to support this laptop with no hickups. The reviewer concludes that this a great purchase, as long as you are more selective over the distro installed."
I am glad to see... (Score:5, Insightful)
You said it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I know Windows pretty damn well now (which is why I'd love to switch to Linux...), and I began in the dark days of MS-DOS, but back then I had the time and the contacts to get help with it, to get going. That's not an option available to me any more, or most of those like me who want to switch after years as Windoze Lusers.
The hand-holding of knowledgable, experienced users helped me get started with computers, and from there I could start figuring things out for myself, but now I just need Linux to work. Once I can do what I need to, then maybe I can tinker and become familiar with the other, more geeky bits. But not if I'm expected or required to spend untold hours of hair-pulling and HOWTO-reading just to get the computer to actually work.
Come on Linux folk: start getting fully-working machines to market, and the rest of us will take the plunge. Or do you feel it should be the exclusive province of uber-geeks...?
Re:You said it. (Score:3, Insightful)
I think I'm getting too old for world domination. These days I'd rather have people NOT use linux. There are two issues, as I see it:
Firstly, if my grandma started to use linux in stead of windows then she would come to me and ask me for help. Right now she sticks to asking windows people for help.
Secondly, I think people should use what works for them. If windows works for you then use windows. There is no need to switch to linux merely for the sake of switching to linux. If you feel like switching to
Re:You said it. (Score:1)
Firstly, if my grandma started to use linux in stead of windows then she would come to me and ask me for help. Right now she sticks to asking windows people for help.
for my mom, *I* am the windows person. if she had a linux install, I would also be the linux guy. personally, i'd rather be the linux support guy.
I think people should use what works for them. If windows works for you then use windows. There is no need to switch to linux merely for the sake of switching to linux.
which is why i said
Don't CARE if it works for 'em - polluting net. (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, Windows is causing major problems for people OTHER than its users, on the net and elsewhere, due to its poor design.
First: The poor security of windows results in repeated bursts of traffic clogging the net for days at a time, as the latest security vulnerabilities are exploited by viruses and worms. Microsoft has shown little competence at fixing these issues, which are becoming more rathe
It's the Hardware... (Score:2)
Too often the same applies to Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Come on, admit it. Bet you can't accurately remember how many of your family members and friends you've helped with problems installing hardware on Windows.
You probably don't remember because when it comes to Windows, all's forgiven when things go wrong. It's expected things will go wrong, but that's alright. It's Windows. (I help businesses, every day, with their Windows
Re:It's the Hardware... (Score:3, Interesting)
Although I really like Linux, I have to disagree with you. Most of the time, Windows does just fine with installing new hardware. The only time when Windows is a real pain is when it fails to correctly identify and install hardware. At that point, it becomes more difficult to deal with than Linux because it does such a good job of hiding
Re:I am glad to see... (Score:5, Insightful)
I looked over the specs and the video on it is extremely dismal... intel chipset shared memory video... SIS video would have been better.
you are better off buying a different brand with higher end components and ignoring the useless modem or getting it without all the "built in's" and using pcmcia cards for greater compatability and performance.
It is a very expensive low end laptop. a linux user is better off with a non "certified" regular brand from HP or sony.
Re:I am glad to see... (Score:2, Informative)
The whole Wifi experience is just not robust, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
This should read:
The whole Wifi experience is just not functional, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
Well... (Score:4, Funny)
The reviewer concludes that this a great purchase, as long as you are more selective over the distro installed.
Well, thats the case with windows machines too.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
And just to validate my statement, let me mention briefl the 'ups' of the laptop, and the 'downs':
ups:
The laptop has a pretty good, bright screen (minus one dead pixel, visible when the background is dark).
Performance is very good. In fact, I think that laptop has more sprightly response and speed than any of my other machines here. KDE's and Xandros' applications pretty much load instantly. 3D support is also preconfigured and display a flight simulator with no lag at all.
The feel and construction of the laptop is very solid overall. The keyboard's feel is also very good, I just wish the PgUp key was not just next to the BACKSPACE key...
I tried out my USB Palm device and it worked out well with any of the usb slots. Ethernet also worked very well and with no problems. I burned an ISO image with the DVD/CD-RW combo drive, which also worked fine. On board speakers did the job as expected as well.
Being a Centrino, battery life is pretty good.
ok, now the downs:While this product is Linux-certified, the "sleep" function simply doesn't work.
Half the time the WiFi card won't initialize
When I visited the KDE control center and clicked the "monitor" preference panel, Xandros greeted me with an alert box telling me that it won't allow me to do anything
On the front of the laptop, there are four "quick launch internet buttons" for email, browsing etc, but pressing them does nothing at all. Apparently there is no driver for them or a remapping tool available on Xandros.
So basically, the battery, display, and keyboard work. As does the USB, sound, cd-burner, and presumably the firewire port. Unfortunately, the sleep function does not, nor do the included extra shortcut keys. And to top it off, the wifi gui setup appears to have some issues.
Now, these are all rather standard issues with a non-linux certified laptop. Regular hardware (video, mouse, keyboard, cdrom) works, and laptop-specific hardware (sleep, wifi pcmcia cards, funky extra keys) does not. However, with linux certification, I would expect at least sleep to work. Thats a core point of a laptop. And Wifi today is so essential to working without being plugged in, I'd rate it right up with sleep and battery life.
While this laptop does for some reason claim to be linux certified, anyone can buy an off-the-shelf compaq, ibm, toshiba, or viao and have the same experience. The only thing that makes this laptop, complete with its 'internet shortcut keys' that don't work, linux-certified is that it comes without windows.
what IS linux certified (Score:2)
WTF
I'm sorry, but the laptop I'm running on right now is more linux-compatible than the so-called certified machine, and even then I wouldn't put a stamp on it (winmodem hasn't a 'nix driver yet).
all the major hardware/functionality to work (including your keyboard/mouse/video/modem/NICs/keys/sound/APM).
Seriously, if I bought a "certified" laptop only to find that these things didn't
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Could not agree more. I had exactly the same set of issues with Xandros on my Fujitsu E series.
The only reason I still boot Windows is because I need a reliable sleep function on my laptops. I believe there are many like me.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Retail Windows (any variety) on a Vaio or a recent Stinkpad.
There is such a thing as a windows distro. Big vendors have always gone and replaced the parts of windows that sting particularly bad with parts that more or less work. So it is in fact: which particular vendor variety of Windows are you running:
Examples:
1. Dell and Windows NT frustration - get working PCMCIA hot-plug. If you run retail - you do not.
2. Sony and Windows 2000 - get working power management. If you run retail - you do not.
3. IBM and Windows XP - get working WEP with preshared 128 bit keys and a reasonable network connection manager (that can make any connection interdependent on each other, not just dialup and execute external commands to bring connections.)
So on so forth.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Congratulations for placing yourself in the "so l33t I can't spell" camp with that comment. Though I admit, "Stinkpad" is a bit more inventive than "Windoze".
Anyway, I am in fact using Windows XP on a ThinkPad, less than a year old. I wiped the hard drive when I got it, installed Windows XP from scratch, and downloaded the drivers I needed from IBM's website. Everything, including WEP, is working marvelously. Best laptop I ever used.
I wo
I think this is great! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I think this is great! (Score:1, Insightful)
Of course, its nice not paying the microsoft tax on the sale though!!!
Re:I think this is great! (Score:1)
Maybe it is not supported in combination with commandline and lynx.
But i am sitting right here with a Microsoft Internet Keyboard (hey, i got it for free) and all keys are working with Gnome 2.6
Re:I think this is great! (Score:1)
Re:I think this is great! (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
What would be great would be an independant company that could certify linux compatibility for a one off fee. I realise there are various websites where users can submit whether it worked for them or not, but it can take a while for new hardware to be listed and the information is often out of date.
Re:Fee? Excuse me? (Score:2, Insightful)
Huh? How is a company charging money to put a piece of hardware through a series of tests against the philosophy of the FSF?
The manufacturer would then gain the right to put a "Linux certified" sticker on their product. Consumers who want linux compatability just have to look for the logo to be sure it will work.
Re:Fee? Excuse me? (Score:2)
Re:Fee? Excuse me? (Score:1, Funny)
All the information is out there, why not just provide it freely to end users. After all, information wants to be free!
Dang, I have modpoints but amongst all the options there is not ability to mark this post 'Product of the fevered mind of a pinhead'
Power management (Score:5, Interesting)
For linux acceptability and use to grow, as others have been mentioning, it has to have other, not-so-geek important features that ordinary users will keep asking for
Re:Power management (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Power management (Score:2)
With pre-packaged systems from a specific vendor, couldn't the Linux distro-company get drives from the OEM? Surely there has to be a provision in the contract clauses somewhere enabling them to get their hands on the drives for compatibility etc?
If not, then it's a very disheartening in-fight within the ranks of the vendor selling the Laptops, and you know that wouldn't take them too far!
Re:Power management (Score:2)
Re:Power management (Score:4, Informative)
You can even get custom DSDT's (Differentiated System Description Table, config info about the underlying system) for many laptops that have broken implementations (the bane of linux compatibility in most cases imo). It's not perfect yet, but it's come really far.
A good distro for seeing if bits and pieces work on newish laptops (read:after2001 or so) quickly is suse. i slap it on a 2 gig partition and see what happens.
although in the case of suse and many others until recently, centrino wlan was not doable
Re:Power management (Score:4, Informative)
That's true. The power management on PPC Linux for powerbooks works wonderfully. Probably because the power management for powerbooks is all the same.
By wonderfully I mean that the LCD will dim after a few minutes of being idle, it will suspend after 10 minutes of being idle, it will suspend and wakeup correctly when the lid is shut and opened.
Re:Power management (Score:2)
...unless you happen to have a machine with Nvidia display adapter (try any 12" PBook), in which case the sleep won't work, as the kernel does not know how to wake up the display adapter from sleep.
See here. [yellowdoglinux.com]
(It also seems that the thermal management [yellowdoglinux.com] in 17" PBooks isn't supported at all, which is rather severe).
The only linux I've ever attempted to run in
Re:Power management (Score:2)
I didn't know that, hopefully they'll come up with a fix for that.
However, to be fair, a co-worker has a 12" iBook that always goes to sleep when you close the lid, even if you have an external monitor, kb and mouse hooked up. That's under Panther.
Re:Power management (Score:2)
I don't really think that we will see fix for the PM problem of Nvidia's cards anytime soon, as Nvidia does not disclosure any specs. On x86 laptops you can use their own proprietary binary drivers, but on PowerPCs you're out of luck.
If you want to buy an Apple's laptop and plan to run Linux on it, make sure to get either iBook or 15" PowerBook to avoid worst hassles.
(My information about the sleep problem being Nvidi
Re:Power management (Score:2)
The exact same machine worked perfectly with FreeBSD + X Windows (same version), which is why I originally tried FreeBSD (and I still use it). I always assumed this was a Linux problem, since that was the only different piece of the puzzle.
Re:Power management (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Power management (Score:1)
Re:Power management (Score:4, Informative)
From what I have heard, the Linux-implementation of APM/ACPI is pretty good. It follows the spec closely. The problem is that Microsofts implementation is not as good. It has bugs and other "weird things" in it.
Now, just about all laptops and the like are "designed for Windows XP" or some other crap like that. So they need to work with Windows and it's APM/ACPI-implementation. And that means it has to go around the bugs in the MS's implementation of it. While they do that, they deviate further away from the spec, and that means that implementations that follow the official spec more closely (like Linux) have problems with it.
There is no "sleep" (Score:5, Funny)
Sleep?! Linux [thinkgeek.com] geeks [thinkgeek.com] dont [thinkgeek.com] need [thinkgeek.com] no [thinkgeek.com] stinkin' [thinkgeek.com] sleep! [thinkgeek.com]
But seriously, nice to see linux certified consumer hardware making its way into the market.
Sorry for they thinkgeek plugging, not associated, just a happy part of the smart masses
Re:There is no "sleep" (Score:1, Informative)
Also, I can do a hdparm -y
The hibernate function came a little late because, well, who needs that? Most of the time the PC keeps running 24/7 just so the user can always ssh to it.
There are several issues with hibernating, like
Re:There is no "sleep" (Score:2, Insightful)
Now that you mention it, having a cute little "Certified" penguin sticker slapped on PCs and Laptops next to the windows sticker would really help linux adoption. Not sure who that certificate issuer would be, and what hardware requirements would need to be met, but I'm sure it w
Advantages ? (Score:4, Interesting)
What exactly is the promise of a Linux certified laptop ? Honest. With off and on support of WiFi, and neglible power saving I don't see any advantage. The hardware itself doesn't sound like anything special. With the use of linux on embeded systems rising, it would be great to see a more fine tuned approach to specialized 'Laptop' distros. heh!
I don't see this appealing to Joe User outa the box either, considering the hoops one would have to go through to get it completely 'functional'. Might as well install a fresh distro and make sure the hardware you buy is well supported. I know of at least a few freinds with better laptop setups, who did exactly that.
Many more generations to go! right?
Re:Advantages ? (Score:2, Informative)
For those wanting to have a working UNIX-laptop, I would recommend buying a PowerBook or an iBook instead of Linux-laptop. Everything works like charm - just apt-get it with
huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:huh? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:huh? (Score:1)
Re:huh? (Score:2)
Xandros? (Score:2)
Re:Xandros? (Score:2)
Shouldn't it just work? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes it is a great step forward, but it just seems like a half-assed one to me. Call this trolling, but if linux ever hopes to gain any respect as a desktop OS, then people shouldn't be selling "linux certified" products that don't work as they should.
Re:Shouldn't it just work? (Score:3, Informative)
Since Apple's laptop prices are about the same
Re:Shouldn't it just work? (Score:1)
Re:Shouldn't it just work? (Score:1)
The reason why laptops often don't work 100% in linux is because developers don't follow specs then write windows drivers to cover up missing hardware functionality.
Tom
Re:Shouldn't it just work? (Score:2)
You can already get laptops designed to run UNIX. You can get an Apple iBook for the same price as an x86 and use OS X, which is a full-featured UNIX system. Virtually all of the open-source software you'd use on a Linux or FreeBSD system runs on OS X, even programs that require X Windows. Linux, on the other hand, has a long way to go before it catches up with Apple.
There are plenty o
Apples to Oranges (Score:2, Informative)
Anyway - I am currently typing an 800Mhz iBook G4 very happily and even run Eclipse on this one occasionally
Re:Apple laptops (Score:1)
Re:Apple laptops (Score:2)
I'm procrastinating something right now, so I think I'll kill some time by feeding the trolls.
The Smartass Response
A UNIX user only uses the mouse for one task: switching between terminal windows. One mouse button is sufficient for this task.
The Serious Response
Interfaces to Mac programs are designed in such a way that one mouse button is sufficient, ju
Re:Apple laptops (Score:2)
Re:True. (Score:1)
there's always going to be some learning curve switching os - i know nothing about macs..
Dell Inspiron 600m (Score:5, Informative)
Really, though. For my needs, it's AWESOME. I use Fedora C1.
X works out of the gate, as expected. CHECK
Sound works with the base install, as expected. CHECK
Network card works immediately, as expected, at 1 Gb. (w00t!) CHECK
CD-Burner works immediately, as expected. CHECK
DVD works simply by updating
ACPI power management and CPU throttling (with cpudyn) works easily. (had to google to find that I had to put "acpi=force" on the linux line in grub.conf) CHECK
USB stuff works as expected in the base install. I've hot swapped my mouse and a digital camera - both work instantly and easily. CHECK
What's left?
1) The modem is a funky broadcom chipset that's not supported by linmodem or pctel drivers. I have an old 33.6 3com pcmcia modem card that works fine. =/
2) Wireless with the Intel 2200 BG chipset is spotty, if at all. (so far, unable to confirm operation using ndiswrapper [sourceforge.net]) =/
3) I haven't yet gotten it to see my Verizon Cell phone as a modem to use it for anytime/anywhere/slow service in those rare cases it's needed. For now I'll boot into WinXP when this is needed. =/
Given the problem - that of allowing me to retain the functional capacity of my 2 Ghz Athlon Desktop system in a laptop, it's a resounding success, allowing me to retain my productivity just about anywhere.
Would I *LIKE* wireless? Would I *LIKE* modem w/o card? Sure I would - and I'm still not convinced that wireless won't work.
But the primary issue for me is productivity - not necessarily having every last bell and whistle.
Oh, and I did use 9 of the 60 GB of disk space to keep the copy of XP Home running in those rare cases that I really do need it. (Hello wireless)
Re:Dell Inspiron 600m (Score:2)
ACPI power management and CPU throttling (with cpudyn) works easily. (had to google to find that I had to put "acpi=force" on the linux line in grub.conf) CHECK
Anyone who is new ( 6 months experience) to Linux: It doesn't work.
Re:Dell Inspiron 600m (Score:1)
ACPI ... It's all about ACPI (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the biggest difficulty right now with Linux and laptops. I've had an Inspiron 8600 for months now and it still can't suspend (to memory or to disk).
If you want to get ACPI working correctly a kernel recompile is necessary and I'm sorry but users aren't going to do this.
Either we step forward and fix these issues or we can't expect users or vendors to take Linux seriously as a desktop operating system.
We're so close but 20% of the remaining functionality is 80% of the work.
Sad..
Suspend is NOT an optional feature on a laptop...
Re:ACPI ... It's all about ACPI (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:ACPI ... It's all about ACPI (Score:1)
cheers.
Wait A Minute (Score:1, Interesting)
Wouldn't this statement be true of almost any laptop?
I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see that in this case the "certification" is more of a promise that the machine will work with future versions of Linux distributions (which is stupid, because the LinuxCertified.com says: "We make sure that all the core components, including the screen in its full resolution, sound etc., are correctly configured with Linux.", which at least for me, is a promise of fully functional OS shipped with the product).
Consumers in general aren't interested in future compatibility of products. They want fully functional product NOW. Without any hassle of installing newer version of the OS later.
In general, I like the idea that there will be companies who are willing to guarantee that the hardware will work with Linux. But I also want to see products that are usable without any additional tinkering.
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
Laptop quality (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Laptop quality (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Laptop quality (Score:1)
And that a damn good thing... (Score:2, Funny)
Ahhhhhhhh (Score:5, Insightful)
These are all questions that should have been answered, they certainly were hinted at. But no, show Eugenia some pretty pictures and she'll do a friggin backflip for you. This thing is hardly functional and she gave it seven points out of ten. In the configuration shipping to customers it won't go to sleep and the WiFi is shoddy and unreliable at best. How in the hell can something like that get seven points out of ten? Somebody got themselves a free toy laptop and gave the POS a good mark-up so the company will let her keep it. This article needs to be posted in the "How to Review Linux" story as a fine example of how not to write a review.
But,see, she's a chick! (Score:1)
Oh, and being the object of one
So that's all there is to it: be a chick compu
Re:But,see, she's a chick! (Score:1)
Re:But,see, she's a chick! (Score:2)
Fallacy.
Appeal to Popularity [nizkor.org]
Re:But,see, she's a chick! (Score:1)
Re:Ahhhhhhhh (Score:2)
Too fscking right
OSnews - for when you're interested in:
* randomly changing distros (every *day*?)
* not bothering to do any googling whatsoever ('flash doesn't work out of the box! neither does java! neither does Real! - er, just like it doesn't on windows out of the box)
* not caring at all about 'free' - ('why don't Red
This is why geeks are starting to use Powerbooks (Score:5, Informative)
Geeks are using a lot of Powerbooks because the hardware is supported seamlessly for sleep, DVD play etc: Apple has recompiled bsd for you
redhat review (Score:2, Informative)
personally i am actually interested in these LC laptops because for me (in australia) they are so cheap. anyone with personal experience of shipping/delivery costs/times overseas, problems etc, would be appreciated.
Wi-Fi? (Score:1)
Re:Wi-Fi? (Score:2)
Why Linux Hardware Sucks. (Score:2, Interesting)
RANTMODE on
I've looked high and low for computers, available to John Doe-home-consumer, that had Linux preinstalled. Oh, they exist, there are places where you can buy laptops with Linux preinstalled. But, look at them, either they are from companies that refuse to sell home systems with Linux preinstalled like IBM or Dell, or they are a generic non-branded factory laptop sold by seemingly an upstart.
The later is no biggy, truthfully we have to start from some where, and frankly many of the IBM/Dell lin
Re:Why Linux Hardware Sucks. (Score:1)
Its a shame, but it seems the big manufacturers just dont see the market for linux laptops.
Plus only recently has it been decreed that MS can no longer hold things back from manufacturers who ship bare systems.
Simple answer (Score:2)
A. Most people don't want Linux for a workstation. That's a fact.
B. Those few people who do are generally too cheap to pay for a nice, pre-configured system, and would rather buy a piece of shit and download Linux themselves and spend their own time wrestling with it.
It has nothing to do with MS other than the fact is that people want W
100% Certified (Score:1)
buttons on desktop don't work? (Score:1)
Yellow Dog and PowerPC (Score:2)
I would be interested in hearing the performance and ease of use. I am particularly interested in the performance of the PowerPC chip and the integration of the hardware with the OS. In fact I would be interested in purchasing a Mac and wiping the OSX to run native Linux - can someone enlighten me on OSX; is it like running Cygwin [cygwin.com] on a PC?
The main reason towards my shift on the MAC hardware [apple.com] is the PowerPC chip, the keyboard lights discussed rece [slashdot.org]
Re:Yellow Dog and PowerPC (Score:1)
If the Yellow Dog linux guys can't get these features working on some of the Powerbooks, I doubt anyone can ( and they do this for a living for shits sake)
If you are going to spend money
Reviewer doesn't care about what you think... (Score:1)
Name: Eugenia Loli-Queru
Title: Editor in Chief
Email: eugeniaosnewscom
Personal website: http://www.eugenia.co.uk/
Birthday: 1973
Current residence: Bay Area, CA, USA
Short biography: I served for 2 years at BeNews, serving the BeOS and its community (this is all past now, but still full of great memories), and before that I was contributing as a news editor fo
why does this one get coverage? (Score:2)
But there are plenty of laptops that run Linux well, and there are plenty of companies that pre-install those laptops with Linux (your choice of distribution) and guarantee that it works. So, I wouldn't really put too much
A better review of a Linux laptop... (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, I fibbed. It's a Linux notebook.
Summary: Very small portable computer with a regular keyboard. The base system is built on a name-brand hardware (Sharp) with a customized Linux distribution on it. The customizations take care of the specific hardware; just like Dell, IBM, Compaq/HP, Sony, and -- well -- Sharp do for the customized versions of Windows they ship. Includes support, and yes you can update the packages -- just don't expect support for packages they don't provide.
The company selling this one has other name-brand hardware that fit other categories of notebook/laptops. [emperorlinux.com]
Element computer [elementcomputer.com] also has a good selection of hardware customized for Linux. Not rebranded IBM/Sony/Sharp/... though you can get a notepad laptop of you want -- ready to go -- and it looks like good stuff. They do not sell Windows, so you won't be paying Microsoft like Emperorlinux had to (using top-notch hardware with Windows already bundled on it).
Ok, I own one of these... (Score:1, Interesting)
First of all, it's not Linux certified, it's "Linuxcertified" - a brand name (though even they miff the spacing sometimes, like on the install DVD they give you: "Linux" is written to the right and "Certified" going down).
Secondly, I was real surprised as I found out that the little silver buttons on the front do nothing, and I felt the same way about suspend.
The "function" keys in general don't seem
My LC2210 (Score:1)
I bought a dual-boot system from LinuxCertified in middle of February. I had thought that I would be using both parts of my system half the time. But, I am completely dependent on Linux now. I have not even booted Windows since early April. I am looking into shrinking that part of the system down now ;)
In any case coming back to the point. Here are my observations about this laptop:
I ordered with Fedora
Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (Score:1)
Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (Score:2)
Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (Score:1)
Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (Score:2)
Plenty of showers, though
Re:Drink a glass of water upside down. (Score:1)
or perhaps.. (Score:1)
yes i know it can, it was a lame joke right from the start
Re:Uh, did you say... (Score:2, Funny)
I work for the RIAA. I'd be very happy to take care of your request:
Just give us your full name and address, as well as the name of your ISP. Within four to six weeks you will receive a letter from our attorneys requiring you to return a form detailing which albums you have downloaded, which network you have gotten them from and whether you have shared them with other people (i.e. P2P). It then works out like this: if you just downloaded the