Montreal Parking Meters Run Linux 506
jbecherv writes "According to LinuxDevices.com, new-fangled Montreal parking meters run embedded Linux (Google Cache). The City of Montreal is planning to roll out 500 to 800 wireless, solar-powered parking payment stations based on embedded Linux. There is even a
device profile
(Google Cache) that show some details about the meters... These meters run kernel 2.4.19 on a 206MHz StrongARM SA-1110. Each system has 64MB of RAM, boots from a CF device, and is networked wirelessly via GPRS."
I know little about embedded devices (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:4, Funny)
We have 'parking meters' here. Near as I can figure they need to know exactly two things:
64MB CF? I can't wait for these to get hax0red.
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:4, Funny)
Re:CF + Camera? (Score:4, Insightful)
The media you mentioned is strictly for the common folk (not meant as a slure: all my cameras use SD
TW
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:4, Informative)
And I wouldn't use it for swap space, anyway. When developing an embedded system, you really should slim your memory footprint as far as possible, so you'd fit inside your available RAM.
The way old-timer software developers talk about it, your really start thinking of proper memory usage as a nearly-lost art.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:5, Informative)
Oods are this is using a SODIM setup. In which case 64MB is the smallest amount of RAM you can get.
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:5, Funny)
But that seems like a lot of RAM. Is it?
Well, it is now. But once they start clustering them...
Re: seem like a lot of RAM. (Score:5, Funny)
.
-1, pun (Score:5, Funny)
*ba dum bum*
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I know little about embedded devices (Score:3, Insightful)
Point 2 - If you want to do it again, please do it when Shrub is home.
Solar powered? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Solar powered? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, lemmie guess... Seattle.
Re:Solar powered? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Solar powered? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Solar powered? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Solar powered? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have no idea how much (if any) money this saves, but I think its really cool... and got way too excited about it the first time I noticed it.
Re:Solar powered? (Score:3, Insightful)
The big benefit is the new machines are more difficult to vandalize and are easier to maintain which means they work. They're regularly communicating with head-office and report when something is broken.
It had been estimated that up to 10% of the old meters were broken at any given time. 10% of the meters not collecting revenue was a much bigger issue.
Re:Solar powered? (Score:3, Interesting)
That surcharge may be worth it. How much do they save by not needing to empty the coinbox as often.
Re:Solar powered? (Score:5, Funny)
Is it just me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, what's the deal?
Re:Is it just me... (Score:5, Insightful)
it's cheaper for the meter company to get very generic, albeit overpowered, parts that will 'just work' then tinker with lower grade hardware
Re:Is it just me... (Score:5, Funny)
Seems a bit underpowered when you add that last part in.
Re:Is it just me... (Score:2)
Re:Is it just me... (Score:3, Interesting)
how about doing an rtfa?
an overly simple parking meter of course wouldn't need more than one timer circuit, but how about you take a look at the article and see what it can do? gprs connectivity, pay anywhere from the city(for time extension you don't need to get back to your car), ticket maids can get the map of paid/not-paid parking slots to their handheld devices (they can check while just driving past the parking lot), cc handling..
Re:Is it just me... (Score:5, Funny)
Nah. But admittedly the nVidia GeForce 6800 they put in each one may be a bit much...
Re:Is it just me... (Score:5, Funny)
It runs Java.
Going, going, gone (Score:5, Funny)
Re:$2,000,000 parking fees at a hacked meter! (Score:5, Funny)
-Program the meters to play "We're into Money" in beep tones whenever somebody swipes their card.
-Program the meter to prompt the user to find out what class of car they drive. If it's a SUV, the meter will refuse to let them park because the gargantuan heap blocks out the sun the meter needs to run.
-Program the meter to randomly scramble PIN numbers that users input.
-Program the meter to randomly pop up Microsoft error messages. We wouldn't want parking meters to give Linux a bad name now would we?
Snow powered? (Score:5, Funny)
Solar powered, in MONTREAL???
Guess the StrongARM takes less power than I thought...
Re:Snow powered? (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if it's a dreary rainy day, your solar powered calculator works just fine, and it's only got three or four low quality solar cells.
Free Software (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Free Software (Score:3, Insightful)
not that i'd ever do anything like that.......
great. (Score:4, Insightful)
as if meters aren't expensive enough... We really needed someone to come up w/the bright idea to allow dynamic changes to parking meters.
The last parking meter I parked at was 25 cents for 10 minutes. That's just nuts. This will just enable them to have meters that take credit cards forcing even higher rates.
Want a way to stop people from coming downtown? Raise the rates on the meters even higher.
hack it (Score:2)
So, they are wireless and running Linux. We need some geek sporting fans to hack it and lower the price during sporting events to say $0.00.
Re:hack it (Score:5, Funny)
That would be nice for Canadiens games. But if you want me to attend an Expos game, you'll have to set the parking meter to pay me.
Re:great. (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who learned to drive on the crazy downtown streets of Montreal, I feel I can happily endorse city's public transit.
Re:great. (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely this is a perfect use of the market to determine price. We all accept that if we book a flight at an off peak time we'll get a cheaper price - why not the same for parking? Cities get busy during the day but are often quieter in the evening. What a boon for restaurants if parking can be set at $2 for the entire evening. If there's a big evening even on then $2 is too cheap - all the spaces will fill and chaos ensues, so adjust the rate to $4 an hour and encourage folk to take the metro / bus / taxi instead.
Re:great. (Score:4, Insightful)
Want a way to stop people from coming downtown? Raise the rates on the meters even higher.
Suppose you dynamically adjusted the rates so high that 10% of the parking spaces were always vacant.
Then rich folks could always be sure of finding parking.
Wouldn't that make downtown merchants happy?
Re:great. (Score:4, Informative)
The last parking meter I parked at was 25 cents for 10 minutes. That's just nuts. This will just enable them to have meters that take credit cards forcing even higher rates.
Want a way to stop people from coming downtown? Raise the rates on the meters even higher.
You ever tried to find parking in downtown Montreal during an event? Hell, there is a reason when I lived in Montreal I did not even bother to get my drivers licence. The transit system there is wicked, and you can get pretty much anywhere you need to with it. But parking in the downtown core? It was always a pain in the ass. There is just not enough parking there, hell, when I went back to visit, I parked on the outskirts and took the metro to get downtown. I saved time on the parking.
Look at it this way - it is a tax on those who are too lazy to take the public transit system, which is better for the environment anyhow. With the amount of parking space that is there I have no sympathy for anyone who drives in circles around the St. Catherines St Laurent area looking for a spot.
Re:great. (Score:5, Informative)
Parking meters in London [cityoflondon.gov.uk]
London Congestion Charge [cclondon.com]
The congestion charge has pros and cons. It seems to reduce traffic somewhat, generates money to be used for buses, and probably cuts pollution. Some argue it works too well, hurting businesses in the central zone, and some people are occasionally sent a fine for not paying the charge even though they never went near the central zone. It works by a camera trying to OCR the license plate. The recognition can go wrong, and the camera can take snaps of people who don't actually enter the zone occassionally.
Still, personally I'm in favour of it - I don't drive in London because it gets in the way of my drinking.
Hummm (Score:2, Interesting)
how hackable is something like this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Instructions (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Instructions (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, they would probably have batteries to keep them running during periods of no sun... Otherwise, free parking on cloudy days, or you put in your money, come back and have a parking ticket because a cloud passed over the sun and reset the meter.
Re:how hackable is something like this? (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:how hackable is something like this? (Score:4, Insightful)
But with old-style parking meters, city guys go out and manually clean out each machine by hand every day.
Imagine... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Imagine... (Score:3, Funny)
Press Release From Last Year (Score:4, Informative)
Sharpie Permanent Marker (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sharpie Permanent Marker (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe they could put the solar panels on poles?
Re:Sharpie Permanent Marker (Score:3, Funny)
I would assume they have a monitoring system via their wireless connections.
"I haven't charged in two days. Something must be up. Bird shit on my solar pannels?"
The meter maids will now be equipped with WindeX.
Simple and Reliable (Score:5, Insightful)
Reason for an Upgrade (Score:2)
Re:Simple and Reliable (Score:4, Informative)
Where did you get the idea that old style parking meters "just work." Many are based on a wind up mechanism for the timing. They are notorously inaccurate. There is a reason people switched from wind up watches to digital watches.
Parking meters are not more reliable (Score:4, Interesting)
There was an article in the Seattle PI today [nwsource.com] about Seattle's plans to do this exact same change:
The article also talks about how Portland made the same switchover, and the successes they had:
Neil
Solar powered? (Score:2, Interesting)
Detroit parking meters (Score:4, Interesting)
exploits... (Score:2, Interesting)
it would be cool... (Score:4, Interesting)
Not cool from city's point of view (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why there's often a short maximum total parking time limit -- gotta have turnover. The more people park, the more tickets have a chance of getting written.
This is also why you see news stories every now and then about people who go around feeding other people's meters getting arrested or otherwise harrased. These Helpy Helpertons cut down on revenue.
Municipalities don't want obedience, they want money. The parking-meter scam is but one method.
Re:Not cool from city's point of view (Score:3, Interesting)
The scam in my city is "street cleaning days". In the 20 years I've lived here I've seen an actual street cleaning machine on my block only once. Yet up to 60% of the parking spaces will be unavilable on any given day due to street cleaning revenue enhancement. The might as well just issue a parking permit, charge $200 for it and be done with it. It would be cheaper for those of us whom work nights.
Re:Not cool from city's point of view (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think in this state they can suspend your driver's license or anything for parking tickets.
Where I live they get you when you renew your plates. I'll mention that to Arnie next time I see him, he can use the money.
Intro from Cool Hand Luke? (Score:2)
Harvesting for a cluster
spare MHz? (Score:5, Interesting)
Looks good (Score:2)
combined with a CCTV (improved security) it also means that if you run out of money license plate read so a fine can be charged (payable upon return or higher fine if later through post).
reading plates also allows for tracking of stolen vehicles.
I give you... the
And the reason is? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just like touch screen voting, this seems like a "because we can" application of technology. Sometimes there's no reason to replace what works. The old steel parking meters are quite literally bulletproof. I simply cant imagine any reason that makes networked meters any better.
Of course, when I moved to DC I sold my car and bought a bus pass, so what do I know?
Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
That's incredible!
Linux and ARM technology - Cool! (Score:2, Insightful)
Interesting that it's now
Overkill (Score:3, Insightful)
Where is the soruce code? (Score:5, Interesting)
The Device Profile [linuxdevices.com] states, "The stations run a Linux distribution that 8D developed in-house." Where is the source code? I searched:
8D [8d.com]
http://www.8d.com/ [8d.com]
But couldn't find anything. How can we efficiently build on 8D's [8d.com] work to build a better, competitive parking meter without the code?
Re:Where is the soruce code? (Score:4, Insightful)
It looks like your making a joke, but I figured I'd mention this anyways as people seem to get confused at times about what the GPL demands of distributors.
The GPL states their obligation for supplying the code is to those who receive their products and by inferrence to whom they have distributed the imbedded Linux binaries to.
It looks like to get the code you're going to have to buy a traffic meter from them or ask for it from one of their current customers.
Darl's Comments (Score:5, Funny)
-Darl
Somebody e-mail me the free parking exploit
Amazing (Score:4, Insightful)
But alas here I am... sober.
What I wonder is, being able to use your cell phone to pay for your parking fare on such a possible UBER METER, would it also SMS or phone you to nag you that your time is almost up and it's time to "feed" the meter?
Anyone that remembers pay toilets is surely dieing for info on state-of-the-art bleeding edge toilet tech. Anyone have any info on computerized pay toilets?
parking tickets (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:parking tickets (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, they make more money writing tickets, even taking the cost of employing people to write tickets into account. As for time and complaints, I've never seen a municipal office that wasn't perfectly willing to let you waste your time complaining to them... :)
Wireless eh? (Score:2, Funny)
Potential Application (Score:5, Insightful)
I would like them to come up with a device (or a GPS plugin or whatever) which would show me the empty parking spots available in a radius around my current location.
I would think most people who work/commute downtown and don't want to pay monthly parking fees would be willing to shell out big bucks for such a feature.
Certainly beats crawling around the roadside for hours trying to find a parking spot.
Another reason to steal parking meters... (Score:5, Interesting)
In Montreal, it will be geeks with hacksaws. Rather than being tossed into a lake, the parking meters will show up in a home-built robot.
Re:Another reason to steal parking meters... (Score:3, Insightful)
This mostly comes from the poster calling it a "Parking Meter" when it is more like a "Parking Pay Station".
Re:Another reason to steal parking meters... (Score:3, Informative)
That parking meter looks on par with a telephone circuit box. you could probably take it out with a chain and a chevy. It looks less imposing than an ATM.
Of course an angle grinder would be the best bet. then you can just open it up like a tin can, take the parts out you want and
Why (Score:3, Insightful)
Achilles Heel of These Parking Meters (Score:5, Funny)
Q Temperature? (Score:4, Interesting)
Solar powered is great, but what happens when those Montreal winters come blasting?
Most batteries don't fare well as the temperature plummets towards -40, either.
Parking Meter Overkill (Score:5, Informative)
I work for Precise Parklink [preciseparklink.com], the provider for the Toronto Parking Authority and many municipalities in Ontario and Western Canada. Our machines are solely based on a EPROM with very little data stored. Why would anyone need 64MB? Our machines also operate on GPRS GSM 'and' Mobitex, solar power, wireless, etc. There's no kernel, no flash card, and works great. One thing that would really impress me is if these Linux machines could accept debit, and most of all, if someone is able to hack it. Also, storing credit card data on a compactflash card garentees the data always exists, which is a bad thing if someone were to tamper with the machine. With our machines, the transactions aren't stored on the EPROM, but instead on RAM. If the machine is turned off or reset, the cc data is lost and the parker is safe from someone stealing their credit card number. Bottom line, the more advanced technology gets for parking meters, the more susceptable to fraud, bugs, and security issues.
imagine beowulf of those ... (Score:3, Funny)
These machines suck (Score:5, Interesting)
There's one meter per block, at each parking spot there's a sign with a number. A123 or A435, B342, etc. You read your number, go to ANY machine in Montreal, punch in that number and you can put money in your meter. Now this is where they got greedy. They got sick of people using leftover time from previous 'customers' so any time you add money to a specific spot it resets to 0.
So if there is 2 hours on the machine and I want to add an hour (you can only have a max of 3 hours) I will have to pay for the full 3 hours. Furthermore you can not see how much money is left on the meter except by looking at the ticket it prints.
So if you have class and need to add a bit of money to the meter so it'll last till the end of class you have to add the full amount since it will restart.
Now for the mischief. There's nothing stopping you from punching in someone else's number, adding 25 cents and reducing there time to 15 minutes! Essentially guaranteeing a ticket.
So if someone has 3 hours on there meter, and you come by and put in 25 cents it will go to 15 minutes. This can be handy to use against people you don't like or just random strangers with nice cars, etc. Anyways it seems like a big problem.
The only thing I was thinking is that maybe the machine will keep track of the OLD value as well as the new value to prevent this, but it's still screwing over people who want to add money to their own meter.
Re:Okay... (Score:5, Funny)
You'll know they switched when you come to Montreal and the streets are bathed in an eerie blue light.
Re:So... (Score:2)
~S
Re:So... (Score:2)
So, your best bet is to park, then check the number on the meter and call to tell them its broken. Free parking, and if they ticket you, they have a record that it was in fact not working at the time your ticket was given.
Re:Built upside down.... (Score:2)
Re:Are they complying with the GPL? (Score:3, Insightful)
Are users being given the option of download the source code?
The GPL requires disclosure of source code upon request of people who have acquired the binaries. Most Montreal residents don't have the binaries, so they aren't entitled to the source code. If the city itself bought the program (and the parking meters aren't being run through a proxy company such as the parking meter manufacturers), then the city is entitled to source code.
Re:You guys aren't getting it (Score:3, Interesting)
RAM and flash measured in _bytes_, CPU's under 10MHz continue to sell a lot. And yes, they are quite a bit cheaper than something like these (which seems to be basically guts of a high-end PDA)
Of course you don't find any of those at store, they don't belong there, they are embedded system components, found at electronics store, not something you