Rack Mounted PCs for the Home User? 442
andrewa writes "Do any folks out there have recommendations on available gear for building a small, but extendable, rack-mounted system? As a developer of software for use in contact centers I want to put together a small development system that consists of at least three PCs to create a simulated environment to test my applications in.
Why rack mounted? Well, I want to save space and only have the bare minimum systems (no need for multiple CD-ROMS, monitors, no sound-cards, just lots of memory and HD space).
I also will add to this in the future, so don't want to limit myself to just a few pcs on the system. I've scouted around a bit, but didn't see too much. I'm in the UK at the moment, but will be moving to the U.S. in about 6 months, so power requirements (although I guess most equipment has switchable voltages) is a consideration."
Rack Mount!? (Score:3, Insightful)
Get a bookcase, flip the tower computers on the side.
Rack mounted indeed!
Re:Rack Mount!? (Score:5, Informative)
We found micro-ATX motherboards with dual DDR and gigabit ethernet built-in. Micro-ATX cases are cheap, and you can get solid 300 watt power supplies for them. Additionally, we can if needed fit in 3 standard PCI cards.
So, we decided to get 15 micro-ATX PCs, and house them in 3 shelves of a standard 2 1/2' (w) x 6 1/2' (h) bookshelf. The PCs sit backwards so all the ports face out. There's still space for another 10 PC's in the bookshelf. Compare this with only 20 2U cases in a standard rack.
My recommendation, go with micro-ATX PCs, unless you really need an ATX sized motherboard. It'll be easier to deal with and will save you a bunch of money over rack mounts.
No thanks (Score:3, Interesting)
But an Xgrid cluster something like VA Tech's in my closet I can hook up to the laptops would be nice.
If I sell this scratchy iPod mini I should have enough loose change...
Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:5, Informative)
The moment anything is associated with professional audio, it gets a 500% markup.
Especially if they're designed for gigging, computer racks don't need to be anywhere near as robust.
Re:Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:3, Informative)
However, building a "road case" is neither hard nor expensive. making it roadable would want some experience with working with (say) anvil cases a bit for back panels, fasteners, etc.
And yeah, my SKBs
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:3, Informative)
I can get a 8U flight Cae from musicians friend for $79.00US while the same Travel PC rack costs $500.00
professional audio is dirt cheap as there are far more of them than Computer people.
Server racks can cost more than audio racks! (Score:4, Informative)
It really isn't true that anything associated with audio gets an automatic 500% markup.
I recently built a new workstation, and decided to built it in a rackmount case this time. I though it would neaten things up a lot to get my (rackmount) UPS and extra battery, server, switch, and all those pesky little boxes (firewall, cable and DSL modems, etc.) into an enclosed rackmount case. (That way, most of the cable runs are inside of the case...)
After looking at surplus racks and not finding anything that I would have in my home (my office is in my dining room) I decided to splurge and buy a brand-new rack cabinet.
I wound-up with a Middle Atlantic Products [middleatlantic.com] WRK-24MDK [middleatlantic.com] "presentation enclosure system" which is a 30" deep 24U enclosed cabinet.
At about $800, it was less than similar products designed for the server market. (Which, IMO, has by far the highest markups!)
There are somewhat more affordable choices available from Middle Atlantic, if is doesn't have to be quite so pretty. Particularly if you want a full-size cabinet. They also make some pretty nifty cabinets intended for in-wall roll-out installations [middleatlantic.com], which are popular in home theatre applications.
One thing you have to watch-out for with audio racks is depth. Most audio equipment is not very deep, and most enclosed racks for the audio market are not going to be deep enough for most servers.
The cheapest way to go, if you are handy, or having custom furniture built anyway, is to just buy rackrails [middleatlantic.com] for a few dollars and build them into something.
The next-cheapest is to use an open rack rather than an enclosed rack. These are commonly used in corporate server rooms where individual-cabinet security is not needed. Severs typically sit on center-mounted shelves rather than actually being mounted from the ears.
And, yes, you can pretty easily find full-size and smaller racks on the surplus market (I found several locally) but they can be rough.
Keep in mind that 1U servers are VERY noisy! (The smaller the fan diameter, the more the noise, for the same volume of air moved.) This is a consideration if this is in your home or even in your office if it is in a work area. If you are a build-it-yourself type, get 4U enclosures and add your own motherboard.
I used a Chenbro [chenbro.com.tw] RM412 [chenbro.com.tw] case, which comes with a hot-swap SCSI backplane, and takes extended ATX mother boards.
I added a 4U shelf for all of the little boxes, and got a new low-cost rack-mount gigabit switch. (An SMC 8508T [smc.com])
Re:Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:5, Informative)
Not really true, check their catalogs... (Score:3, Informative)
I have a JBL rackmount amplifier sitting in my living room right now and it's over 22" deep.
Most pro audio rack case manufacturers make cases that are deep enough to accommodate most rack mount PC systems.
Re:Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Musicians worked this one out long ago... (Score:3, Informative)
Been there, done that, painted it metallic green (Score:5, Informative)
Going back to school to pick up Cisco and SUN I wanted a rack to hold all the requisite lab equipment for my sandbox - and I thought it would be nifty. I did this last summer and I was able to buy a 42u rack for $100 by watching a week for a local rack on ebay and avoided $200 in shipping fees. Of course no data center I have ever seen was willing to personalize their their rack by painting it metallic green like I did:)
When your buying your rack mount systems bear in mind that 1u cases tend to cost a lot more and have lower capacity. If you have the room, and at home you should, buy either a 3u or 4u rack case and then you don't have to use low profile memory, cards, power supplies and the like that are a fair bit more expensive than standard issue fair.
You can easily get the 3u or 4u cases on ebay for the same price range as a normal computer case. However the rack mount keyboards, mice and monitors cost a pretty penny. If you buy a full rack it will be far cheaper to just by a couple rackmount shelfs and put an old 15" Monitor, KVM, Keyboard and still have plenty of room left over.
Also bear in mind your electric capacity with where you place it. In my experience you'll get around 6-8 systems for a LAN party on your standard 15 amp outlet before blowing the circuit. If you can put it on a circuit that is as isolated as you can make it.
Re:Been there, done that, painted it metallic gree (Score:3, Informative)
Go with 4U rack mount cases. They are cheap, and easy. They will fit all your standard hardware out there.
For the rack itself, they can be expensive new, but you can get them used often enough. Look on ebay and find one in your vicinity. My friend got a nice compaq 42U rack for cheap that way.
If you can't wait, you could do as one has suggested and use a 19" audio rack. Just make sure it's deep enough; some audio racks aren't deep enough to fit some computer cases.
If you're o
Re:Been there, done that, painted it metallic gree (Score:5, Informative)
Good points all around in parent post. Additional thoughts from my own experience:
As others have pointed out, another problem with 1U/2U rack cases is the noise. They typically use 40mm/50mm case fans, and the sound of those poor little guys whirring their hearts out is like living in an airport. While you might be able to tolerate this with a single computer, once you stack up 3/4/5 machines, the noise levels can become remarkably unpleasant. After 3 months of insomnia, I chucked those cases in the closet and replanted everything in 4U cases. (I've since seen low-noise 40mm Pabst fans popping up every now and then -- the airflow is much lower than the turboprop-wannabe stock fans, but I'm tempted to pick up a few of these, bring the 1U case out of storage, and give it another shot -- for a minimal single-CPU/single-drive system, the reduced airflow should still be sufficient.)
4U cases, OTOH, are much easier to quiet down. These typically use 80mm or 90mm case fans, and many have mount points for a couple of 60mm fans on the back. There's a variety of low-noise 80/90mm fans on the market. Not quite as wide a selection in the 60mm range, but they're not particularly difficult to find if you need the extra airflow. (FWIW, I've been happy with the Vantec Stealth line.)
The parent poster's comment about 4Us taking standard power supplies is good to keep in mind. The PS in a 1U/2U case is going to be a nonstandard size -- which can be a killer if it dies on you. With the standard-sized ATX PS used in a 4U case, if you lose a PS you can pop down to your local computer supply store, buy a replacement, and be back up and running in no time.
If you're running Linux, you can manage without a KVM once your machines are set up and running properly, since you can always forward X sessons from multiple boxes over to whichever machine your monitor is connected to. That being said, a KVM is awfully handy if you need control over a machine during the early boot stages -- you can't get to the BIOS settings display using X forwarding. :-)
Personal preference I've developed regarding rails is to use the 26" rails even though most 4U cases are only 20" deep. The longer rails make it more awkward when you first put the case in the rack (since they stick out past the ends of the case), but afterwards they'll let you slide the case out far enough that you can get to the connectors on the back. (Like flipping off the switch on the power supply or unplugging the cord while you're working inside the machine.) I find that being able to do all the work from the front of the rack is more convenient than having to hop back and forth between the front and rear to yank things off and plug things back in again. If you rarely work inside your case, it's not a big deal -- save a few bucks and go for shorter rails, or even skip the rails completely and bolt the case directly to the rack.
You mentioned lots of HD space. If you're planning something serious, like a 4+ drive RAID configuration, pay close attention to mountpoints and airflow. Many entry-model 4U cases only have 2 mount points for hard drives. You can pick up 3.5-5.25" adapter brackets that'll let you mount additional drives in the 5.25" external bays -- there's usually 3 external bays on an entry-level 4U case. If you pick up one of the inserts that fit into the 3 external bay area and allow you to mount 5 hard drives sidways, be very *very* cautious if you're using 7200 RPM drives. Those drives run hot normally, and there's almost no space between the drives in these inserts, hence little room for airflow. You'll want a dedicated cooling fan, preferably built into the rear of the insert, or you're going to run a real risk of the drives quickly overheating and dying. (Been there, fried that, bought new drives.)
Oh yes, and something that drove me crazy for a while -- if you pick up a second-hand rack and the mou
Re:Been there, done that, painted it metallic gree (Score:5, Informative)
Get a mainboard that supports serial console redirection, like the Tyan Tomcat i875P [tyan.com], and hook the (first) serial port up to a multi-serial board in another box, or get the excellent (but expensive) Cyclades TS-Series console server [cyclades.com].
We just picked up four of them as firewalls (in 1U cases from Chenbro) as well a backup server, and the redirection works like a charm.
Consider Emulation (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe a virtual solution will work for you?
Re:Consider Emulation (Score:4, Insightful)
These are great, but having multiple systems comes in handy. It's always nice to know that that thing you're going to blow up will only affect one machine and your really important stuff is gonna keep hummin' along on the side.
For the stuff I really don't know enough about yet, I like to have a seperate box to play.
TW
Re:Consider Emulation (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Consider Emulation (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Consider Emulation (Score:5, Interesting)
Instead of VMWare consider User Mode Linux [sf.net]. It is free. And it permits you to run many virtual servers per host server. e.g. you should be able to run 16-30 virtual servers per 3Ghz Intel proc. Just make sure you have enough memory (4GB is handy).
With Copy on Write file systems you can prep up your testing environment. Snapshot it. Run your tests. Then nuke the resulting file systems and start again. Being able to start a test run with the whole file system in the state it was in when you started (without having to roll back individual files and databases) is very convenient.
- UML-based VPS Hosting [rimuhosting.com]
Follow Apple's example (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Follow Apple's example (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Follow Apple's example (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Follow Apple's example (Score:5, Insightful)
If you read his post carefully you will notice that he didn't say "buy an Xserve mini cluster". He said "follow Apple's example", and then he showed several things that Apple did right with their Workgroup Cluster.
Many of those things can be achieved by using cheaper hardware and not getting all the goodies that you don't need (e.g., the truckload of software), so you can follow Apple's example without spending $28,000.
what about virtualization (Score:5, Informative)
Gank it from work (Score:5, Informative)
I usually just go to Antec [antec-inc.com] for enclosures, but in this case it might just be wiser to have your boss order a few extra nodes that you can take home. Modern Xeon and Opteron systems tend to get very, very hot in 1U enclosures and require wind tunneling for more efficient cooling and require enormous amounts of power from PSUs that cost several hundred dollars in 1U form factor.
Rack Mounted Servers (Score:5, Informative)
The main and possibly only benefit of the rackmounted server is because it saves space. This is essential when putting servers in a datacenter as they charge you for how much space you use.
If you are not going to put the servers into a datacenter just put the computer in a standard case which is about (4U) and save yourself the $300-$600 that a rackmount case will set you back alone.
Added benefit of the rack case... (Score:4, Informative)
Middle Atlantic Products & NewEgg (Score:5, Informative)
HP's got some decent lowend hardware (Score:5, Informative)
Checkout the Proliant's:
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/s
That's not to bad for the hardware.
Mini-ATX (Score:3, Insightful)
Never underestimate the need for bragging rights. (Score:5, Funny)
He told me his wife had even agreed to let him install it in their bedroom.
I said to him "why do you need a raised floor? I know how few cables you are running and you certainly don't have gas fire suppression or HVAC".
He looked at me like an idiot and said "yeah, but dude... It's a RAISED FLOOR!"
Sadly, I could totally see his point...
Why not laptops? (Score:5, Insightful)
Rackmounts are terribly noisy. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Rackmounts are terribly noisy. (Score:5, Funny)
oh my gosh how terrible the lameness filter is trying to foil my message, lowercase lowercase lowercase text text text text one two three four i love the marine corps happy fun ball sorry dave i'm afraid i can't do that my very educated mother blahblahblah
Re:Rackmounts are terribly noisy. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Rackmounts are terribly noisy. (Score:3, Insightful)
More seriously, I worked at a place where we had to test a new rack for our server farm.
It was one (1) Dell rack and running in our office for two weeks or so
While it was somewhat cool to have a rack in your office
These things are build to run in a separated room, 24/7 under maximum load. So cooling is the first priority, while noise reduction is a non-issue.
Re:Rackmounts are terribly noisy. (Score:3, Informative)
I've used three models: the original SV24 (Celeron, no heat pipe), the SN41G2 (AthlonXP 2500, heatpipe) and the SN45G (AthlonXP 3000, heatpipe).
The SV24 is really noisy and high-pitched. But the other two are nearly silent. You may have been using an older BIOS, or had some funky BIOS settings, if you had noise troubles.... newer Shuttle BIOSs allow you to enable fan control that keeps the fans near-silent at normal temperatures. If you set the BIOS to have
Don't *need* a rack (Score:5, Insightful)
Works great, relatively cheap, and you can do something else with the "rack" later if you want.
Re:Don't *need* a rack (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, well, sometimes you get what you pay for :(
Note that my experience comes from both working in a datacenter (a competitor to Rackspace, won't say who), and from having a home rack built out of that wire shelving. There are pros and cons to both sides.
The biggest pro, of course, to the cheap white box and wire shelving way is the cheapness factor. The problem is that this is only an advantage while you have a lot of extra space in the data center. You can only get 9 or 12 white boxes in a rack stacked vertically, you can get 42 1U servers in a single rack. 3 times the density, basically. Plus, in my experience with our legacy cheap whiteboxes, they are far more likely to have hardware failures (power supply, motherboard, etc.) than the higher class hardware (mostly IBM, some Dell and HP). Hard drives fail in everything, but the whiteboxes are a pain in the ass to take apart to replace them. The rackmount servers open right up, and everything is right there where you can get to it. Also, the nonserver motherboards and bioses that were put in the whitebox have various issues with our automated build systems (varying NICs, some supporting PXE boot, some not, different array controllers, etc). You can control some of this by buying the same parts from the same vendors, but consumer systems don't have the build stability that server oriented systems do. Even if you are buying exactly the same model, you can find components (and drivers!) changing from one revision to the next depending on where the manufacturer got the best deal.
Now, as to the home environment, like I said, I have a wire shelf rack, with a bunch of different stuff on it (Suns, PCs, Powermacs). The main reason I am probably going to buy a real rack for the new house I just bought is flexibility. You can't easily move shelves around or add shelves to one of those wire units without taking the whole thing apart. If you only have tower systems, all exactly the same height, this is probably not a big deal. You just make all the shelves the right space for the tower systems, and leave them in place. But if you have a mix of stuff, and you want to maximize your space usage, you really want to put stuff horizontal, each on a separate shelf. This is when a real rack comes into its own. There are a variety of shelves available (some that slide out, some statically mounted, etc). Adding or moving a shelf is just a matter of 4 or 6 bolts. Most server class hardware has available rackmount addons (all of my Suns do). Another factor is cable management, currently I have a mess of wires all velcroed together... good racks come with cable management built in, and it is usually fairly cheap to add to a rack afterwards even if it doesn't come with it. And note that if you shop on ebay, or can find a good local remarketer/recycler (one who buys stuff from closing companies), then rackmount hardware and even the racks can actually be cheaper than buying wire shelving brand new. My 7 foot tall wire shelving unit cost me $350 to build... I have seen full racks, with side panels and everything, for $150 or so on ebay. What kills on these things is the shipping, so finding a local remarketer or ebay seller like another poster mentioned is definitely a good idea. You could double the price of a rack with the shipping charges.
This is hardly new nor high density (Score:3, Interesting)
That scheme is most certainly NOT "high density". It is extremely LOW density; in the space of a dozen desktop machines(if that; probably more like 8), I can place FORTY TWO 1U rackmount systems. Uh huh. You read that right. That's not even as dense as you can get- the ultimate are blade servers, of which you can fit something like a dozen in 4-5U of
Rackmount @ home = bad idea. (Score:3, Insightful)
You could also go the virtual machine route and buy one extremely tricked-out machine and a copy of Virtual PC. Microsoft appears to be using it for multi-machine setups when they send out training and demo CDs now, so having several real PCs to do testing and training is no longer necessary.
4 post racks... (Score:5, Informative)
They provide a fair amount of silence too (a bit of foam along the sides where it doesn't obstruct air flow dampens it a lot.
There's a switch, a terminal server, a patch panel, a router (IOS testing mostly), and 7 computers.
The patch panel is new and GLORIOUS. It means I have all the serial ports and network ports and ports for the rest of the house in one panel.
3 of these computer have rack ears. I found rack sliders, put 3/4" ply between them to make a pull out shelf and have a couple Sparc20s, a NeXT and an SGI sitting sideways on them. beneath is another shelf with 2 tower cases sitting there.
Why not all rackable computers? mainly cost. An $80 case with an enermax or antec power supply (I'll *only* use Antec, but enermax was acceptable when it came with the case. The rest are crap. 5V should not be 4.6V when the graphics card get hammered). 2U rack cases (cheaper than 1U cause you get a bit of headroom and can use regular RAM) cost several hundred. The ones I have I got from a dot com moving from dozens of random machines to dozens of the same damn machines. I won; they became maintainable.
I like 4 post racks. The shelves made it easy to put stuff in. Relay racks (just the front ears) work for many people to. If you have another room for the 'puters, then you can consider it. Shouldn't cost more then 120 Euro really.
Make your own
Any pro audio store (PA systems, not CD players) can tell you where to get rack rails. All my pro audio gear was rackable and I have several 4U (not deep enough for 'puters) road cases. So go buy a pair or 3' tall rails and build a nice box out of HEAVY ply. It will meet all your needs. If not, any carpenter should be able to build you a box for a few quid.
Go mini. (Score:5, Informative)
For home systems, you would be much better off just using mini-itx. For some ideas, take a look at http://www.mini-itx.com.
Another option to consider is XBoxes, especially if you're handy with a soldering iron and can install mod chips yourself. Buy it for $150, add some extra RAM if you need it.
Ghetto Rack baby (Score:5, Informative)
Rackmount is a bad idea for this (Score:5, Insightful)
What's a better plan?
I'd recommend Shuttle [shuttle.com] mini-PCs or similar (a few makes are available now). Hugely cheaper then rackmount, much quieter, better expansion (two or three internal hard drives if you don't use floopy or CDROM), and honestly SMALLER then 1U systems. Remember as thin as 1U systems are they are 19" wide (before you add the rack which adds a few more) and are typically very deap (20+ inches often). They are also much heavier then Shuttle systems. Furthermore, so long as you stay away from the mini-ITX based brands (Via, yuck!) they have every wiz-bang feature you could ask from a full size PC (duel channel DDR400, hyperthreading, USB 2.0, Gigabit lan, firewire, etc, etc) built in (see the Shuttle X in particular).
You'll have a much easier time moving three of these small boxes around (get a small carry-on suitcase) then a 4U rack case, and your ears will thank you.
Consider vmware.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Heck of a lot nicer than having to worry about the noise, heat and space requirements for the 6 physical systems I would require.
May be worth considering.. Disk space can be managed reasonably well, and as I am only actively using one (or perhaps two) systems at any one moment in time, each box claws it's way out of swap into real-memory pretty quickly and provides pretty reasonable interactive performance.
Red.
Try Wal-Mart (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Try Wal-Mart (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Try Wal-Mart (Score:4, Funny)
*shudder*
Syncronicity strikes again! (Score:5, Informative)
Now, admittedly, it's a fully enclosed lan case, but still...
I got lucky with mine, in that I work for a company that sells all types of office supplies, including PC stuff, and I got the 6.5' beast for all of $10(CDN)... but I have seen them floating around for relatively cheap prices, especially as offices move and go for freestanding racks instead of enclosed cases.
Why an enclosed case? Noise is the big one. It's just worth it to have as much soundproofing as possible when you're running multiple PCs. It also looks cleaner, stopping prospective nerd-chicks from saying "I was going to do you, but your wires are all messy!". And, finally, it allows for nifty modding (word to the wise: If you're going to cut holes in the 2mm steel side with a Dremel, be sure to wear non-flamible clothing. A, uh, friend told me... yeah).
For cases... well, I considered getting a few 2U cases... but then I thought of noise, and cost, and it just wasn't worth it. I'm just now (literally, just took a break to let the dust clear) building my own cases our of 1/2" wood. Given the size of my rack and how I'm laying things out, I'll end up with 19" x 19.5" x 6" cases, more than enough to hold a full ATX board, 2 CDs and 2 HDs (and floppy [the drive, not the rabbit]). If you didn't need many externals, you could fit 2 ATX boards in there.
Cooling? I'm buying an 80CFM, 0.5 Sone air transfer fan... I'll hook all the cases up via dryer venting and PVC pipe, and the only noise in my entire case will be this one uber-quiet fan, and 1 PSU per case (which is made of sound-dampening wood). As I figure to max out at 3 cases, I expect excellent quietness.
Access? I hinged the side door of the case for easy access, and my case layout has all the hookups on the side of the case, not the back. Much easier when, say, you want to change mouse cables, or hook up a USB device. Sure, you think you won't do much, but whether it's rack or case, do you really want to be fiddling around back trying to plug a cable in without unplugging the other 150?
Interface? Forget rack-mount monitors and keyboards... get a KVM. They're cheap, easy, and I've had very few problems with any I've used. At high res they do ghost occasionally, but I only notice it now when I look for it. I'm currently using an Avocent Switchview 4-port, and it has behaved itself quite well. (Don't get a manual switch... autos are just all around better).
Overall, though it was a bitch to get here and get fixed up, I'm already happy now that it's in place. Instead of having 3 PCs with 2-3 fans each, 2 laptop docking stations sitting behind me looking ugly, and all my networking EQ sitting with it's wires hanging out, I have 1 fashionable case, with blacklights and other esoteric touches, that my cats can't run through and knock over, my roommates can't fiddle with, and no-one complains about unattractive PC equipment. It's quieter, more convenient, and damnit, it just looks cool!
The bottom line? Don't bother with rack rails and expensive, ugly cases and your wires flopping out in the breeze.... pick up a full rack case and build your own boxen. And remember, it gives you the best pick-up line a nerd could ever ask for... "Hey baby, wanna see my huge LAN rack?"
Why not stack a few XBox's... (Score:3, Interesting)
Power Supplies (Score:5, Informative)
It stars out innocent... (Score:5, Funny)
Old pic:
old picture [757tech.net]
Re:It stars out innocent... (Score:4, Funny)
If I started doing rack-mount in my house, I'd end up with that. I simply have to restrict the number of concurrently-running computers in my place to retain any semblance of a sane environment.
Often the first thing a woman says when she walks into my apartment (usually with a matter-of-fact-but-obviously-unimpressed tone): "Gee, you have a lot of wires".
Cheers
Stor
Don't Rackmount: Stackmount... (Score:4, Insightful)
This gives a nice compromise: Much lower cost (racks are expensive), LESS volume in practice (Racks are DEEP, its hard to find a deep storage closet, but small form factor systems may be taller but aren't as deap), and easily available.
True, reliability isn't as good, but you aren't talking about ultra-reliable systems anyway, and you said you didn't need high performance.
Why not go VM? (Score:5, Interesting)
It should be cheaper, for a home user.. and has other advantages as well. Such as easy manageability, quickly recovering blown systems after a bad test, changing OS's on the fly..
Just make sure to get tons of RAM ( which is cheaper then an entire machine )
Free 20U rack on wheels, pick up only (Score:5, Informative)
I also am a strong proponent of virtualization if possible. I'm up to about 15 virtual machines running under VMWare ESX, and I started a new box intended to run Linux VMs using usermode linux. Now that "virtualization" is a key buzzword for 2004, I don't think I'll ever get around to populating the rack with gear. Get it out of my house.
My two cents (Score:5, Informative)
1. Rackmount equipment generally costs more.
2. The space you'll save is directly proportional to the extra airflow (read "fans") you'll need. The smaller the unit and/or the more stuff inside each unit, the more fans you'll need and the more noise you'll end up with.
3. A 4U unit is about the same size as a tower PC. Invariably, a 4U is designed to use more fans than a typical tower PC and as a result will be noisier. A typical 2U unit is designed with 3 mid-case fans, and an exhaust fan (in addition to the fans on the power supply fan and the processor). Swap out all the fans for the quietest replacements you can buy, and you'll still end up with something you'll want to put in another room or far away from where you work.
4. Rack enclosures are expensive. Audio racks and relay racks, while cheaper, are NOT appropriate for any number of reasons. You can, however, find budget or used enclosures (still not cheap), just as you can design your own (a week in the garage). Rack accessories are also expensive. You can find a Slashdot article on the subject of enclosures here [slashdot.org].
If by home use, you're implying you intend to put everything in a specially-ventilated and sound-proofed closet or recording-studio grade enclosure, another room, or basement, I'd say go for it. If not, you'll regret it.
On Topic Response (Score:4, Interesting)
We use them at all of our ISP POP locations.
Re:On Topic Response (Score:3, Insightful)
Man o mister, ground loops suck to debug.
Stay away from aluminum (Score:3, Informative)
Very bad idea unless you're mounting very shallow stuff or very tall stuff; there is a reason they call them "telco" or "relay" racks; telco/network gear is never very deep(long), unless it's also very tall, so it doesn't exert much outward pull on the screws. Think about the mechanics of it- and yes, it's not pretty when that 2U DB server with 4 very expensive SCSI disks makes Unintentional Ground Contact because the screws all stripped out.
Go with
I've done it...here's some advice (Score:5, Informative)
First, be carefull about where you put it. Mine is tucked away under the stairs in the basement. A 19" rack fit perfecly in the closet that I built around it. I have an automatic dehumidfier and some (motherboard based hacked) temperature sensors, and a bathroom ventalation fan. When I'm in the basement, I can't hear anything at all.
Next, buy yourslef a CAT 5 KVM Extender. It is absolutly indespensable. I very rarely have to go down to manually press a button and the KVM extender has eliminated the need for an expensive rack mount keyboard and monitor. I just have a cheap KVM switch connected to my family rig in the den.
I agree with other posters, go buy a 4U rackmount case and make sure that you have at least a couple of rack mount shelves for routers and other misc stuff.
The neighbours all know that I work as a geek, but showing them my Rack when they come over demonstrates that I live like one too
Re:I've done it...here's some advice (Score:4, Funny)
Is there a psychological term related to getting your stories rejected on slashdot?
"literate"
Re:I've done it...here's some advice (Score:3, Funny)
My recommendation: A4F 19-1HE (Score:3, Interesting)
I can only fully recommend the Mappit A4F 19-1HE [mappit.de] , which comes in a black chassis ready for a 19" rack. I bought my first one recently, and it's doing a great job. This box is ideal for servers run in private homes, since they are low-energy consumption (low-$$ when run 24/7 like mine) and low-noise (can live in a corner of your living-room without being noticed).
It's built by a German company, but they shipped it to the UK quickly and hassle-free, so they might as well ship to the US.
A friend of mine, who had first recommended the Mappit series to me, runs a set of smaller ones [mappit.de]. All solid metal cases, and Linux/BSD installed easily (no 'Microsoft tax').
> Rackmount? For 3 pcs? Something small? ... ATX!
Yes and yes -- luckily, that's not a contradiction at all.
Happy Easter, all!
Use Mid-towers (Score:3, Interesting)
The backs of the machines are to the aisle and I have a common keyboard/monitor/mouse setup with long extension cables that I swap as necessary.
I run Linux so I only need the keyboard and console in exceptional circumstances. If I were forced to run Windows, I would use VNC and a similar setup.
Each machine has 4 ATA hard drives and no CD. For system setup, I do a network install initiated from a floppy. All other maintenance is over the network.
While this setup is a little bit clumsier than a rack system might be, it is far cheaper because it is built 100% from commodity components.
Been there, do this... (Score:4, Informative)
Rackmounts of the 1U and 2U variety are handy when you can get them with the connections in the places you need them. Most have connections in the back, which for a geek is a bit of a pain since it means moving stuff around a lot every time we need to change something. A few have some important connections (or all of them) in the front, which makes for supreme ugliness but really handy to work on. Other than that, you need to pay attention to the size of the expansion cards you plan on putting in, as a riser card (to allow full-size cards in a 1U or 2U case) can often be more expensive than the cards you're planning to install.
At 4U cases and larger, it's pretty much the same size of a regular case in a horizontal configuration and at a fair premium over a standard case. Rarely are there any additional features other than for cooling. Unless there's a need for hot-swappable drives or something like that, it's not terribly useful.
Remember that 1U and 2U cases tend to be a fair amount deeper than a standard case, which yields somewhat about the same case volume as a cheaper standard case. So unless you have depth available with how you want to set it up, it can case trouble. But if you need to stack things up, stuff someting next to ceiling joists, or have a dedicated 19-inch width area for electronics, you're not saving yourself much. When that's the case though, this is a really great solution.
And it looks cool too. My $400 linux server/router sitting in a box that says "Intel NetStructure Traffic Director", which probably cost ten times that much. I feel like someone who has a car kit where they turn a VW bug into something that looks like a street rod.
The surplus market is your friend... (Score:5, Informative)
The SF Bay Area part of California has a generous supply of used electronics and computer places too numerous to list in any detail here. At the risk of load-testing my web server, I have a page at this link [bluefeathertech.com] that lists all the Bay Area surplus places that I knew of as of my last (annual) trip to the area in 2003.
I would, however, like to point out one place in particular in the Bay Area. Weird Stuff Warehouse [weirdstuff.com] has to be seen to be believed, though their prices can be a little on the high side, IMO.
I also have store and swap meet listings for the Puget Sound region [bluefeathertech.com] and the metro Portland area [bluefeathertech.com] of Oregon.
Outside of the retail surplus scene, amateur ("ham") radio swap meets can also be excellent sources of such parts. I bought my original rack case from one of the Bay Area events back in 2000, and it is still serving me well today. You can search for hamfests close to whatever area you'll be moving to at this link. [arrl.org]
I hope that helps. Rackmount stuff is great fun, and scrounging for it (and other parts) even more so. Definitely part of the "Tinkerer's Spirit."
Enjoy your travels.
Rack Mounted PCs for the Home User? (Score:5, Informative)
dumped a bunch of older equipment, and I managed
to get a very nice full size rack, for free!
that said...
rack stuff is more expensive, though it's getting
less so.
put the rack on casters, and make sure that they
are rated to carry the weight of your rack
maxed out with equipment.
I love this. Combined with hard floors, it
makes it very easy to pull the rack away from
the wall to make changes, or clean under it.
*** Make sure the combined height is less
than the doorway. This will allow you to
move it out of the room for painting or other
room maintenance. In fact, when I got the
rack, I put my desk and two file cabinets on
casters, too.
Get rails for the cases. I leave the case lid
screws off, too. Makes it very easy to slide
out the cases and pop the lids for changes and
maintenance.
Be sure to make cables long enough to
accomodate the length needed when the cases
are fully pulled out.
Tiewrap cables that can be pulled out,
(i.e., usb, keyboard, mouse) to the back
of the case to act as strain relief when
sliding the case.
Check the alignment of the rails that the
equipment screws into, left to right, front
to back. Use a couple of 2U blanks at the
top and bottom.
When I built my first rack case 5 or 6 years
ago there weren't as many choices, seemingly,
for manufacturers as now, and I over did it
with a big Sliger. Since then I've built a
couple more using Compute-Aid 4U boxen
http://www.compute-aid.com/
which are well built and fairly priced,
though it's been of couple years since I checked
them out.
Heating isn't a problem with 4U cases.
ATX mobo's leave plenty of room for chassis
fans. Cases frequently can be ordered with
a cross brace that accomodates additional
chassis fans.
Try and keep the heavy stuff near the bottom.
For me, top to (near) bottom:
ham radio stuff
17" monitor for the router box
(I'd love to change this to an lcd,
but they're too much money)
mini-keyboard for the router on sliding
shelf
1U shelf for the dsl box
1U shelf for the 8 port hub
workstation 4U box
old workstation now file server 4U box
router 4U box
APC rackmount UPS (heaviest of all)
That's all I can think of.
Good luck
DRMO or surplus sales (Score:4, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Alternative to racks (Score:3, Informative)
I have a Shuttle XPC for gaming purposes fitted with an Athlon XP 2800+, 512MB RAM, a DVD-ROM and an 80GB hard disk. For full featured computing needs in a small package, you can't beat it.
Supermicro (Score:4, Insightful)
Really Loud! (Score:4, Informative)
Also, keep in mind that most rack mountable computers are REALLY LOUD (think "idling jet engine loud). The smaller the "U" of the case, the louder it is. Those 1U and 2U cases are jam packed with all sorts of stuff that gets hot. They compensate for that with high flow fans and those fans are LOUD.
Also rack mount cases for the "build it yourself" PC's cost $100 - $150 more than standard cases.
The "gee-whiz" factor is great, though.
My home rack setup... (Score:4, Informative)
I use (2) 2-post relay racks from Great Lakes Case & Cabinet [greatcabinets.com], they were ~$300 each. I bought 19" shelves, rack power strips and mini keyboards (that fit on a rack shelf) from Milestek [milestek.com] (very inexpensive), and some used APC rack mount 1400W Smart-UPS (one per rack, mounted at the bottom). I did as others have done and built machines into 4U Siliconrax-Sliger SRCX475 rack cases [siliconrax-sliger.com]. They are not quiet, but I haven't found them as noisy as others have mentioned.
I used a 15" CRT for the KVM monitor (both because it was cheap and because, unlike flat panels, they will sync to many more video signals.). I'm using a Black Box ServManager KVM, and it works well, but I don't recommend it because you can do the same thing with cheaper equipment (Belkin). The relay racks are incredibly strong, and I've mounted quite a bit in them. Between the two racks I have several 1U switches, a firewall, the 4U ServManager KVM, a 15" Dell monitor I picked up cheap with the purchase of a server, keyboard, 7 mixed 4U and 1U machines, a 4U robotic tape jukebox, 3 2U power strips, and a 4U lockbox for storing loose bits. All the cables are run along the sides and behind the relay racks -- with a full installation I don't see the wires too much. The relay racks have the option of using casters, and while I didn't buy them, I recommend them to others -- it lets you roll the relay racks out to
get behind them.
I had an electrician run separate 15A circuits from my mains panel to each relay rack's UPS, and I also had him install a manual generator transfer switch and heavy-gauge cable to an outside junction box, so I can plug in my generator. (An aside -- if you are going to use a generator to keep things going in a blackout, put a cheap, low wattage light plugged into one of the UPS and turned off, so that it is available to be turned on so you can see what you are doing while switching over to generator and for general tinkering if the place you have your equipment doesn't have a light fixture.)
It looks impressive to have everything mounted this way, and keeps everything tidy.
Recycled story? (Yes) (Score:4, Informative)
Here [slashdot.org]
Deja voodoo.
Scalable Rack (Score:3, Informative)
I had the same idea you did, except it was for small businesses who wanted to start with a small rack system, then add later.
So I had this built, a scalable rack. [forrestmods.com] Since a standard rack is 42U high, I had it built to be 1/7th the height, or 7U. The piece sitting on the front is the cap for the rack top, and another 7U rack module is already installed, so the rack in the picture is 14U high (BTW, if anyone wants that synpotics 10Mb hub, they can have it for nothing...just gotta pay the shipping...it's heavy!)
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of interest in a scalable, modular rack system. So there my prototype sits in fire engine red looking very pretty, but no buyers.
Re:Rack? (Score:4, Funny)
OP: Consider used laptops or better yet, VMware (Score:5, Informative)
Built in battery backup.
Discrete hardware so you can use it like a regular computer.
Very quiet, low power consumption.
Reasonably priced compared to 19" rack mount machines.
Get a spare hard drive and carrier and the laptop serves double duty as a personal laptop simply by swapping out the drive.
Stacks easily.
You can get new Dell laptops for under a grand apiece including upgraded hard drives and memory.
That said, I suggest you give VMware a serious look. It has a 30 day shareware trial version (full feature) and will let you run multiple virtual machines on the same computer - memory limited to 1G across all the VMs on one physical machine (ie you could run four 256M machines or two 512M machines or eight 128M machines at the same time, or mix and match.) Networking is emulated very well, as far as the virtual machines are concerned they are all real machines on your network, in fact all the real machines on your net will treat them like real machines also.
Total cost for VMware = $300 for the software and enough to fill your existing computer with another Gig of memory. If you are doing prototyping or experimental work it is really something worth looking into.
Re:OP: Consider used laptops or better yet, VMware (Score:5, Informative)
Relay rack 38U steel, with base (should fit under a doorway with casters)
129.00 - Rack [l-com.com]
60.00 - Base [l-com.com](Freestanding Application)
40.00 - Casters [servercase.com]
Rackmount Computer Case
130.00 - Computer Case [servercase.com]
30.00 - Power Supply (300 Watt) [servercase.com]
LCD / KVM Switch / Mounting (need to make custom rack mount for LCD Swivel)
1200.00 - LCD Monitor (21") [compusa.com]
41.49 - LCD Swivel [cyberguys.com] [cyberguys.com]
119.95 - Rack Mount KVM (8 Port) [techdepot.com]
18.99 - KVM Cables [techdepot.com] [techdepot.com]
Rack Mount UPS
249.99 - UPS 1500VA CyberPower 1500AVR [bestbuy.com](free shipping from BestBuy, easy to return if problems, not cheapest price)
Hope that helps,
Jad
Re:OP: Consider used laptops or better yet, VMware (Score:4, Informative)
They just had some $99 4U atx cases, and $50 2U cases (with PS no less).
Re:OP: Consider used laptops or better yet, VMware (Score:4, Informative)
I've found a nice cheap source of basic rackmount cases/chassis at http://www.plinkusa.net/ [plinkusa.net]
I'm fond of this chassis: http://www.plinkusa.net/web2025.htm [plinkusa.net]
It's 2U but still accepts a standard ATX PSU, and is only $137 after adding shipping and rails. You can very easily fit standard desktop components into this formfactor. The only flaw is that the two internal fans in the med-section of the case have circular holes in the chassis that aare cut in such a way as to produce a loud whine. If you cut the remaining metal out with a case-cutter tool (or dremel or something) and replace it with a basic fan-guard, it'll run quietly.
They also offer very inexpensive 4U cases, and some attractive 3U models that still accept a full compliment of upright PCI slots.
For KVM, shelves, and other accessories, eBay has been my friend. Mildly used parts can often be had for significantly cheaper than retail, such as the rackmount surge-protector I managed to find, nearly new, for about 80% off of the retail value.
As for the UPS, I would always buy APC. They're simply the best. I've had nothing but troubles with the few Cyberpower UPSs I've worked with. Granted, they were the desktop models, but after having them fail within weeks *repeatedly*, I vowed never to buy a CyberPower again. I went with a 1500VA 2U APC SmartUPS, brand new... Pricy, yes... But very capable.
Re:Rack? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?d
Racks themselves are expensive. Figure on a $250 minimum investment. Then a $100 minimum case cost.
I've got a number of skyhawk 4U cases in a 48U rack. It works for me, especially with all my AV gear in lockdown shelves. Works for me, YMMV.
Re:Rack? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Rack? (Score:3, Informative)
I find these systems interesting though:
http://mini-itx.com/
Hoping if and when I feel the need for a new computer I'll get one of these with an old enough processor that I can do with little or no fan.
so what (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Rack? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Rack? (Score:5, Informative)
My suggestion is that you look on ebay for a rack cabinet. I just bought two of them on there for $50.00 each. One was a Sun Storage Array which probably cost over $1,000.00 new. The other was some generic cabinet, but both are perfectly functional. The Sun is too large for the house, but the other easily fits in a closet I use for my servers.
Cases can easily be found brand new on PriceWatch for under $100.00. Sometimes you can find them for under $70.00. You can also buy used cases on ebay fairly cheaply.
One additional think to think of is this. It strikes me that with some aluminum angle shelving material from Lowes, a drill, and some bolts, you could easily make a rack frame to put rack cases in. I also think that some heavy drawer rails would work as well as the server rack rails folks sell, which you cna also pick up cheaply on ebay.
Alcmaon
Do we need this kind of humor here? (Score:3, Insightful)
On an individual basis, you'll find that most geeks are not this way and in fact have female friends whom they see as neither a sexual object nor as a lower fo
Re:Do we need this kind of humor here? (Score:3, Funny)
Thanks for reading this far. I've had to get this off my chest for a long time.
Don't you mean: I've had to get this off my rack for a long time?
Re:Do we need this kind of humor here? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Do we need this kind of humor here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Do we need this kind of humor here? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Rack? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Rack? (Score:5, Funny)
Pamela Anderson? Oh wow, that brings back some mammories...
bad for performance testing, bad for reliability (Score:5, Informative)
...and is absolutely useless for anything even remotely approaching performance testing, because you've got the overhead of the virtual machine software, and several systems fighting for CPU time, memory, and disk I/O(which is particularly a problem with IDE systems where disk I/O involves a lot of CPU overhead).
you have one kick ass box.
and if anything breaks, you now have ZERO working systems, instead of 2/3rds etc. IBM's big iron gets away with this because damn near everything is redundant and hot-swappable, so the machine never has to go down.
I don't consider the parent answer particularly insightful, sorry...