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Wireless Networking Hardware Technology

SBC Park Plans A Giant 802.11 Hotspot 207

Posted by timothy from the radiation-nation dept.
Numeric writes "Baseball games won't be as boring at SBC Park, home of the San Fransico Giants, because they are offering "one of the largest hotspots", according to this Yahoo article. SBC Communications provides DSL and wireless connectivity to business and consumers. I wonder if Minute Maid Park will offer free orange juice or even better Citizen Ball Park could offer free money! Its nice to see the staduim sponsor offering more than just the name sake of their business." LostCluster writes "The San Jose Business Journal adds the details that the WiFi access will be called SBC's Freedom Link, and and be based on 121 access points spread across the park. Access will be free during the 2004 season, but will cost $7.95 per day or $19.95 per month starting next year."
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SBC Park Plans A Giant 802.11 Hotspot More

SBC Park Plans A Giant 802.11 Hotspot

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  • Just another excuse (Score:5, Insightful)

    by millahtime ( 710421 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:03AM (#8725154) Homepage Journal
    This will be just another excuse to raise the price of hot dogs and beer.

    Is this something I would really want to use. Who would surf the net while watching a game. Why go to a game then.

  • Finally, I can see from the bleachers (Score:5, Funny)

    by Goalie_Ca ( 584234 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:03AM (#8725157)
    Hehe, for all those sitting in the very back top rows, now you can watch the game on real player and actually see something.

  • Great (Score:5, Funny)

    by Corngood ( 736783 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:03AM (#8725160)
    You know a sport is boring when...

    • Re:Great (Score:5, Insightful)

      by stubear ( 130454 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:19AM (#8725303)
      I know you're being a wise ass, or perhaps not and you simply don't understand baseball. Whatever, the sport is clearly not for you. However, for those of us who happen to love baseball this is an interesting idea. It would be nice to look up stats and information during a game about the players on the field. What's Pedro's ERA right now, not after the last game? How well does he pitch against right-handed batters vs. left handed hitters?

      Baseball is statistics, plain and simple. Being able to grab these numbers on the spot right to your PDA would be neat. Currently I rely on a small radio but I'm only given the stats Jerry Remy and Sean McDonough want to tell me, not the ones I might be more interested in. Maybe Fenway will get something like this soon but I'm not holding my breath.
      • This and baseball is a rather slow paced game compared to most other sports. Having wireless access would allow you to check scores, stats, refresh slashdot for new posts(hehe) rather quickly inbetween innings, during pitching changes, or even during an at-bat if you so wanted since I think the average time between pitches can be about 10-15 seconds(correct me if I'm wrong on that one). This wouldn't be quite so easy at say a basketball game, since a glance at a pda or some other wireless device almost g
      • At my hometown park of Turner Field, ERA, batting average, etc as displayed on the jumbotron are recalculated after each plate appearance. It was fun to watch Bobby Hernandez' ERA skyrocket in realtime!

        In related news, I'm going to see Schilling's first start of the year next Tuesday to catch the O's/Sox game in Camden Yards (driving up from Charlottesville, VA). Should be awesome.
      • What's Pedro's ERA right now, not after the last game? How well does he pitch against right-handed batters vs. left handed hitters?

        Yes, we all know how baseball lends itself to be heavily broken down statistically, but do we really need statistics like:

        How well does Pedro Pitch

        • against Right Handed Hitters
        • with a 0-4 mph Wind coming in from the Left
        • on a Tuesday
        • with More Than 25,000 People attending the game
        • When the Pollen index is Low
        • He slept between 6.01 and 6.5 hours the previous evening
        • A

  • I can see it now (Score:3, Funny)

    by Omega1045 ( 584264 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:04AM (#8725165)
    Some businessman is going to get smacked in the face by a foul line drive, and sue the ball park because he was using his laptop on their wi-fi connection and didn't see it coming.

  • geeks @ SF Giants games??? (Score:3, Funny)

    by stonebeat.org ( 562495 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:04AM (#8725171) Homepage
    hmmm so we will see more geeks and nerds at the SF Giants games????

    What is next??? Geek in gyms???

    I am here for the bandwidth.

  • blah... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by cdrudge ( 68377 )
    Maybe someday people will go to the ballgame to watch the game, not to check on their stocks, surf for porn, view the nannycam, or whatever else they think they need a WiFi network for.

    • Re:blah... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by halosfan ( 691623 )
      I do go to ballgames to watch them. However, a ballgame takes 4+ hours off my evening, and having the ability to check e-mail once in that timeframe is sometimes invaluable. People use cell phones in the ballpark, and nobody complains...how is e-mail different?..

      • Re:blah... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mobiux ( 118006 )
        Because you don't need a 5 lbs cellphone, and they aren't going to start charging you $7.95 a game to use a phone in the game.

        That said, why not just check your email on your cell phone?

      • Re:blah... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Big_Al_B ( 743369 )
        You mean to tell me that you can't go four hours off-leash once in awhile without getting into trouble? That's actually sorta sad. What kind of ADHD world do you live in where you can't just go sit in a damn ballpark and watch the world spin for an evening? It's called a "pastime" for God's sake. I have a laptop (powerbook TYVM) and email and a cellphone and wife and a job and a mortgage and a BMW. But I can turn them all off (my wife will vouch for this) for an occasional ballgame.

      • Re:blah... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by cdrudge ( 68377 )
        Becasuse life is short enought that you shouldn't have to check your e-mail every 4 hours. Enjoy the game. It's called entertainment. If it was work, you wouldn't pay $20 for the opportunity. If it was something critical, they would have called you instead of sending your e-mail.
        • Some people work at a ball game. You take potential clients to the ball game for entertainment, why not also bring a PDA to show how "sophisticated" you are and to finalize some deal you are working on.

  • Makes Sense (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jtwJGuevara ( 749094 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:05AM (#8725178)
    The only way I could be arsed to go watch a baseball game live would be to give me wireless access and to let me bring a laptop in. Of course, I'm sure this isn't the purpose they have in mind. Although, providing wireless access within sporting venues might be quite an interesting way to bring in more fans to games especially in the case of Major League Baseball, who over the course of the past ten years have seen an abysmal drop in attendance.

  • what about... (Score:5, Funny)

    by supergwiz ( 641155 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:06AM (#8725179)
    How are people going to do "The Wave" with a laptop on your lap?

  • Busch Stadium (Score:4, Funny)

    by redfenix ( 456698 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:07AM (#8725189)
    Free Beer?

  • woooooooo (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FinestLittleSpace ( 719663 ) * on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:07AM (#8725190)
    get a few mates with webcams and laptops and set up a multiangle freeview of the game ;-)

  • Hooters Park Anyone? (Score:5, Funny)

    by dsheeks ( 65644 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:07AM (#8725196) Homepage
    Any word on Hooters sponsoring a baseball stadium? Just so long as they don't bring their cameras...
    • For several years Hooters had a large outfield ad in Atlanta-Fulton Co Stadium. In a PC baseball game I played several years ago, they had changed the "Hooters" sign to "Hoopers", with basketballs in place of the owl eyes in the logo. Kind of clever.

  • Freedom Link (Score:4, Funny)

    by Bizzarobot ( 442358 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:08AM (#8725198) Homepage
    the WiFi access will be called SBC's Freedom Link

    Previous name considerations included, "SBC's French Link". Though this name was later changed under public and Congressional pressures.
  • in this day and age, The Bank would offer A Free Credit Card (1st three months 24% interest rate thereafter).

    Minute Maid: Free Juice with every $4 cup

    FedEx Field: Free Truck delivery, when you pay the airfare for your package.

    Either that, or they raise the ticket prices by a % equivalent to what they would 'loose' on giving away the free stuff. NOTHING IS FREE

  • Multitasking! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by spangineer ( 764167 )
    Multitasking is the new favorite activity of millions of people (talking on the celly while eating a hamburger while driving... a manual transmission car), so since baseball has so much downtime, this is perfect! Now we'll all be able to write computer programs and check email and read slashdot while waiting for the pitcher to read the signal from the catcher. Well, maybe some people will - I'll be stuck over here on the east coast. Oh well.

  • Good plan.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Pay wireless fee in cash

    share thousands of MP3s

    Let the RIAA take on SBC Park

  • Are laptops permitted into a sporting events? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jim_Maryland ( 718224 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:10AM (#8725227)
    I obviously don't attend many live sporting events (price of tickets + parking + beer not justified), but don't they limit what can be taken into these events? Wouldn't they worry about someone streaming the events content to the web, bypassing revenue generation.

    On the other hand, people would probably spend more time updating their fantasy league rosters.
    • Naw, they're too busy searching you and confiscating bottled water and peanut butter sandwiches. Got to worry about terrorism, you know.

    • Re:Are laptops permitted into a sporting events? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jeffy124 ( 453342 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:24AM (#8725349) Homepage Journal
      Many stadiums dont allow bookbags or similar bags anymore (a woman's purse usually an exception) because of terrorism concerns. Laptop bags would seem to fall into that category.

      The former Veterans Stadium allowed bookbags that were clear/transparent colored, or the bags you get at the grocery store. Even still, your bag has to be checked to make sure you're not bringing in outside beer, canned soda, and other prohibited items. Citizens Bank Park will probably carry the same policy.

      It would seem that in order to get a laptop in, you would probably have to carry it in directly, no bag or anything. Or, bring a handheld that fits in your pocket.
      • I can understand them searching your items, but a visual check of the laptop probably wouldn't include an internal check. I guess they could run it through a scanner to see if anyone is concealing weapons/explosives/etc..., but that would mean adding the equipment and trainig security on proper usage. These security measures will compete with a players salary, therefore increasing the ticket prices even more.

  • those interested in online betting will like it (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Hekatchu ( 684465 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:11AM (#8725234)
    I guess that might be good to those interested in online betting. Since with the instant availability of statistics and easy access to the betting site they might develope more "who catches the next ball" type of bets.

  • Whatever (Score:3)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:11AM (#8725236) Journal
    It's nice to live in a place where sports "fans" don't feel the need to bring a laptop to a game. It's always gratifying to ask those pompous Bay Area 49er, make that Raider, no, make that 49er fans when they last went to a Warriors game.
  • Hard to surf on a laptop in bright sun, wonder if they will also rent you an umbrella? Also wonder if security will let a laptop in.

  • Cool (Score:3, Funny)

    by TheVidiot ( 549995 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:14AM (#8725261) Homepage

    I paid $50 for a seat at a baseball park so I can play Unreal Tournament with 50,000 other people.

  • On a serious note. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Prince Vegeta SSJ4 ( 718736 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:14AM (#8725268)
    Has anyone considered how this will affect (or even effect) the ease of gambling at sporting events. This could allow for betting on individual free throws in basketball, whether a play will be overturned in football, individual innings in baseball (you can even change your bet real time, double down etc).

    • Doesn't need Wi-Fi (Score:4, Interesting)

      by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:35AM (#8725442) Homepage
      Some gambling sites already use WAP, and next gen smartphones apps could easily do this sort of gambling functionality.

      Why bet on a play being overturned... bet on the yardage of EACH and EVERY play. Use a betting exchange to co-ordinate across the people in the stadium and watching on TV... hey presto.

      This isn't future stuff... this is now stuff. Most betting exchanges, if they just allowed WAP or created a smartphone app, or if you could use Opera on your P900, can do this today.
  • This seems to be a world wide trend. Here in good ol' .dk the local telco just installed wifi access on McDonalds, Statoil gas stations and a lot of other places. Access is free for the next three months.
    I wonder if people with laptops will replace the image people with cell phones had 5 years ago.
    • Do you have to pay each (McD, gas station, etc.) a separate fee?
      Here, SBC is going for the 'price at the edges of the network' model and I don't think it'll work. Who's going to pay this much to be able to use something in a *restricted* environment?
      This will work if access is everywhere and for a flat fee.
      • This is indeed how it works here. You pay a flat, monthy fee to the ISP and then you have access to all the hotspots nation wide.
        I'm actually considering buying an SD-Wifi card for my PDA. That could actually be usefull. I'm not usually carrying my laptop around, but my PDA is always with me.
  • Just a quick question...

    If I am at a game with my child and see that the guy in front of me is watching pr0n, then can they get arrested for the corruption of minors? Can I sue for damages?
    -m

  • Get yer hot dawgs! (Score:3, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:21AM (#8725323)
    With this milestone reached at last, the WiFi enabled hotdog, and the USB-enabled beer mug are not far behind.
    • Heh. You jest, but there just might be a use for wifi in vending services. Vendors could have a local website available through the venue's start page that could allow customers to place an order and have it delivered right to their seats. The customer could even pay with a credit card, or indicate they will pay cash upon delivery.

  • $20/month!? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by peterdaly ( 123554 ) <petedaly@ix[ ]tcom.com ['.ne' in gap]> on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:21AM (#8725324)
    While it is nice that it is free this year, I have a hard time seeing a lot of people willing to pay $8/day or $20/month next season to have wireless access at only one location; especially a baseball stadium.

    Maybe I'm just short sighted or unable to comprehend the demographic they expect, but I don't see a big market for this once che charges kick in.

    -Pete

    • Re:$20/month!? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Considering this'll mostly be used to lookup live stats etc, that's actually a good deal for a die-hard fan or a family out for a day. For comparison, die-hard Nascar fans will rent a scanner for $40/race to listen in on radio communications. So it's easy to see a big baseball fan pay $20/month on top of the season ticket in order to get immediate access to stats (which are a big part of the game watching).

      For families too, if you have kids you know how much they get worked up over something based on peer

  • MLB will never allow it (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Syberghost ( 10557 ) <.syberghost. .at. .syberghost.com.> on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:23AM (#8725340)
    It would mean more up-to-the-minute online recaps of games in progress. MLB will shut them down.

  • Why not phased array? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Baldrson ( 78598 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:28AM (#8725375) Homepage Journal
    FSU evaluated (see figure 12) [fsu.edu] a phased array from Vivato [slashdot.org] for their stadium and had some positive things to say about the technology.

    I wonder why the SF Giants chose not to go one (two at most) phased array panel(s)?

    • What about bandwidth? Having many small coverage areas versus one big coverage increases available bandwidth. The 2nd article talks about wanting to limit each AP to 20-30 users, with the Vivato you have everyone on at most 3 APs (one for each non-overlapping channel).

      Maybe the SF installation and FSU have different target bandwidth requirements.
      • You need to read up on phased arrays. Basically think of a dish antenna with an incredibly high speed pointing mechanism so you can reposition it for each time slot on the access point. You, in essence, have no cross talk between the users. This is a large part of why David P. Reed is debunking the myth of spectrum scarcity [reed.com] -- an example of which myth is in your phrase "everyone on at most ... one for each non-overlapping channel".

  • Alternative Vision (Score:3, Funny)

    by wombatmobile ( 623057 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:33AM (#8725418)
    You may say I'm a dreamer, but in the future, fans will be allowed to stay home and access the internet with a computer whilst listening to the game on the radio for free.

  • This is a pretty fair marriage.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by michael path ( 94586 ) * on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:38AM (#8725466) Homepage Journal
    Baseball isn't basketball or hockey, where the downtime is kept to a minimum. I've been to many baseball games where I'm simply bored out of my skull waiting for something to happen. That's not to say I dislike the game, I played for several years while I was younger. And rarely have I cheered like when the Diamondbacks beat the Yankees in the World Series a few years back.

    Some people hit on the desire for real-time stats during the game, whether for the game they're watching or the rest of the MLB. That's great. One could argue that statistics are half the sport.

    They generally don't post stats on the board as to how Pujols has fared against Schilling in the past - that's generally the interesting fare for the TV audience.

    If they do charge in 2005, I would hope that they provide some other value-add, such as streaming instant replays, customizable stats pages, etc.

  • thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cyber1kenobi ( 666018 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:39AM (#8725470) Homepage Journal
    "We've created one of the largest, if not the largest, hot spot in the world," says Larry Baer, Giants executive vice president and chief operating officer.

    Don't think so Larry Baer. You're in a one-block stadium. Case Western Reserve (in my hometown Cleveland) has what I believe is the largest public WiFi network. It covers university square and most surrounding areas.

    Betting on every play... cool! (I don't gamble though.) Multiple camera angels (long overdue) is a great idea!
    • I'm sure you'll get lots of people replying along the lines of "My University has campus-wide access!". Well, here's mine :)

      UCSD has campus-wide 802.11b. Though, it probably wouldn't qualify as a "hot spot", because, for the most part, it's only in buildings. And only on certain floors of multiple-story buildings.

      But, here's the official (read: conservative) coverage map:
      http://blink.ucsd.edu/Blink/External/Topics/ Policy /0,1162,1779,00.html
    • I'll see your college, and raise you a whole city. [slashdot.org] They got you by about 8 square miles.

      Ah the old hometown, I'm so proud. *sniffle*

  • Security? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheBurrito ( 767042 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:39AM (#8725473)
    Airlines already treat every laptop coming through the gates like it's packed with C4. Aside from the potentially real risk of someone disguising a bomb in a laptop, the headache of searching hundreds of laptops at the gates is enough to tank this idea.
    • At baseball games they don't even give you the top for the plastic bottle they sell you so you won't throw the full bottle at someone. A big p4 laptop could hold a pretty serious weapon. Where there is beer and a large amount of males, there will be fights.

  • Wireless bandwidth is the problem (Score:5, Interesting)

    by magarity ( 164372 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:40AM (#8725489)
    Wireless is shared bandwidth so if there are a lot of people using it, performance becomes absolutely miserable. Even if people flock to the statium to use wireless networking, as opposed to watching the sports, I don't think this is worth the bother. Sure, before the game starts some people might want to use their wireless PDAs to check up on stocks, etc, this isn't going to be used very much. I think the heaviest users are going to be living line of sight to the stadium with Pringles cans pointed that way.
    • Most games happen when the market is closed, so checking up on stocks wouldn't be an issue...
    • It depends on how they architect the network. If they have 121 seperate cells that creates a lot of aggregate bandwidth. The article says they are wanting to have 15-20 people per AP, which sounds reasonable.

      I agree that its currently not worth the bother. There are just not enough convenient wifi devices (laptops are not convenient at a ball game) in people's hands to make this practical. When the cell phone and pda truly merge and have wifi standard then the infrastructure they've built to serve thou
  • Hey SBC, how about a hot spot in my neighborhood? I know having DSL is too much to ask for, but I'd love to give you money for high-speed internet access.

    Pretty please?

  • Citizen Ball Park (Score:5, Funny)

    by sdcharle ( 631718 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @10:44AM (#8725512) Journal
    even better Citizen Ball Park could offer free money!

    Actually at Citizen Ball Park, if you buy a $3 beer, the vendor notifies you of a $2 transaction fee, and asks if you want to continue.

  • The Giants could be making a huge mistake. MMORPG's are pretty popular among baseball players. Guys like Doug Glanville and Curt Shilling are big time Everquest players, and Star Wars Galaxies is pretty popular as well.

    I can see it now. Instead of 7 guys in the bullpen bs'ing around and trying to look interested, you'll have the entire Giant's rotation staring at laptops trying to powerlevel.

    "Johnson, get warmed up, you're going in next inning"

    "But coach, if I go in, where are the guys gonna get another level 25 human paladin to tank?"
  • Citizen Ball Park could offer free money!

    Better yet, hand out free green cards for the first 10,000 fans.

  • Baltimore Digital Harbor (Score:3, Informative)

    by panker ( 461977 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @11:04AM (#8725679)
    The Baltimore Inner Harbor recently became a wireless hotspot. The Orioles stadium (Oriole Park at Camden Yards) is about 3 blocks from there. I wonder if you could get a wifi antenna to reach from the stadium? The warehouse is really in the way though. I bet some coffee shop or some open home network is closer though. Time to experiment!

    As far as baseball being an expense...bah! I live withing walking distance of the stadium, and the O's have a "scalp free" zone inside the stadium. There, you can buy tickets from scalpers legally and under the eye of a Police officer. No worries of paying too much and getting your wallet snagged when you pull it out to pay. I walk up 5 min before the game, buy tickets some guy is dumping cheap and go into the game.

  • 802.11 Security Issues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mrs clear plastic ( 229108 ) <allyn@clearplastic.com> on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @11:17AM (#8725806) Homepage
    I have two issues here; both having to do with security.

    The first is how many of the folks using this will relize that there may be those running air-snort, or whatever the heck it's called, in the park? If I remember, the WEP is easy to crack (may not be real time cracking, but a few hours later on a top end machine back at home after airsnort records a ballpark full of packets on a 20gb drive).

    A SBC size stadium full of airsnorted IP packet traffic may have some interesting gold nuggets
    (business deals, insider information, credit card numbers, etc) especialy during a business day or evening.

    The second is how do they intend to enforce payment? Again, if you have airsnort or airpeek or whatever, can't you find out what the SSID is and then get on?

    Even if it has to do some sort of authentication
    based on the MAC address before it hands out dhcp, can't someone wait until the guy in the bleacher
    next to them is through/goes to the bathroom/goes to the concession stand/takes a nap; then does a man-in-the-middle (assuming both the MAC and the
    allready-dhcp'd-ip) and get on? Perhaps, now that they are using someone else's identity; go ahead and PTP a bunch of people's music; or surf kiddie porn; or whatever?

    Personally, when I go to events like this, I go totaly empty handed. No laptop, no cellular, no bags, nothing.

  • First hit is free.

    After that it is $7.95 day habit. I predict a rise in crime surrounding Pac Bell Park for all those fans trying to pay for their habit.

  • I live 1 block away... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Planck0 ( 554268 )
    ...and the $20/month option is a hell of a lot cheaper than DSL. You can bet your ass I'll be getting an omni-directional antenna and hooking it up to my wifi link to see if I can see this hotspot and what the quality is like. I've always felt that wireless was the way to go rather than rolling DSL out to everyone. I'll be paranoid and use SSL-enabled e-mail and then I should be good to go.
  • Is this an attempt to attract us geeks to sports? "Come to the ballgame, stay for the Counter-Strike WLAN-party!"

  • SFLAN (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LMariachi ( 86077 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @03:58PM (#8729151) Journal
    It looks like SBC Park might already be covered by an SFLAN node [archive.org]. Anyone tried it from inside the stadium?

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