Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Hardware

Phoenix DRM Reads Your E-Mail 298

Posted by michael from the no-joking-matter dept.
martensitic writes "eWeek reports that Phoenix has developed a utility allowing users of its laptop DRM BIOS (last discussed here) to 'check their Outlook data on a notebook computer without needing to boot the machine.' Since Longhorn is still several years away, Pheonix is developing their own trusted apps to sell the BIOS to laptop manufacturers. One can only imagine what other innocuous bells and whistles will be used to leverage DRM onto Joe Laptop's machine."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Phoenix DRM Reads Your E-Mail More

Phoenix DRM Reads Your E-Mail

Comments Filter:

  • Talk about a misleading headline! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrRTFM ( 740877 ) * on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:56AM (#8608950) Journal
    It's not like the BIOS transmits info anywhere else or logs keystrokes. It's seems to be a quick boot access method to get to your PIM data. And, quite frankly - its ABOUT BLOODY TIME.

    Even with a fast 2 gig PC its hard to convince the family to use the contacts database instead of the paper version- takes too long to boot, logon, load the app. Sheesh, it seems as if this type of information access is going backwards these days. The faster the hardware gets, the more bloated the software gets.

    • Most laptops have a hibernation mode. Using that, my 486 laptop can be up and running in 1 second.

      Sure it takes a while after that, but hey it's ancient...

    • Re:Talk about a misleading headline! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by lpontiac ( 173839 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:09AM (#8609079)
      Even with a fast 2 gig PC its hard to convince the family to use the contacts database instead of the paper version- takes too long to boot, logon, load the app

      The article says this is for a notebook computer.

      Maybe instead of this, they should concentrate on making a suspend/hibernate that works.

      • Re:Talk about a misleading headline! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Jahf ( 21968 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:52AM (#8609541) Journal
        suspend/hibernate always worked well for me during that one or two days that I used the stock Windows install before repartitioning/replacing it.

        However even a working hibernate can take a minute or two to fully restore, as it has to pull up to a GB of data off the hard drive, properly restart devices, and do a doublecheck of config. That means that on my laptop with 512MB RAM and Win2K it took almost as long to de-hibernate as it did to boot (Win2K has an awfully fast boot cycle).

        Restoring a suspend is much quicker, but then again, suspend works (for me at least) on Linux just fine.

        I personally am not happy about DRM BIOS in general, but having quick access to PIM data without a full boot sounds VERY nice, especially if it can be made multi-user. I can definitely see my grandparents willing to do that over having to go through the whole "scary" boot process.

        Plus it gives you a way to leave the machine off, saving power, while still being able to have it quickly boot into an application that guests might want to use.

        Is it a killer feature? Nope. Does DRM blow? Yep. Is it ironic in a funny way that someone is developing an Outlook compatible app that doesn't require you to run Windows because Microsoft is taking so long on their next version? Absolutely :)

      • Re:Talk about a misleading headline! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by tambo ( 310170 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @10:49AM (#8610253)
        Maybe instead of this, they should concentrate on making a suspend/hibernate that works.

        Agreed completely - and I'll take it a step further: An ideal suspend/hibernate mode will be one that runs on almost every reboot.

        Think about it. Virtually every time your computer thrashes its way through POST and Windows boot, it's doing the same thing it did last time. So why not just use a memory snapshot of the last time you booted? If you haven't changed the startup processes/options or hardware/drivers, it should work fine. If these have changed, then your next reboot reverts to the old method, and then it takes a new startup snapshot.

        Admittedly, the only flaw with this scheme is the Windows registry - this changes frequently with regular program usage. But Windows could keep a registry changelog since the last startup snapshot, and apply the changes after loading the old snapshot. Easy.

        This would lead to like a 1-second boot cycle 95% of the time.

        Now, that's the kind of thing that BIOS manufacturers should be working on, not ring-minus-one DRM bullshit.

        Convincing people to upgrade by allowin ghtem to check Outlook mailbox in BIOS? Are they stoned? Obvious problems:

        • Routine functions might (probably will) disable the functionality. Move your mailbox folder, apply a password, insert multiple user profiles, include some VB ties in the background - hell, just upgrade your mailbox format, maybe through an Office patch... how'd you like to have to flash update your BIOS after upgrading your BIOS?
        • If Outlook is inherently tied tightly to functional code (e.g., VBA), and if your BIOS allows you to run this functional code while checking mail, doesn't this give the functional code access to your BIOS? Half the point of Windows is to protect your low-level resources from malicious code - something that BIOS can't do unless it gets as bloated as Windows! Doesn't this pose a huge security risk?
        • Who really wants this?! This is all of the inconvenience of a stripped-down client, plus all of the bulk of a laptop. It's the worst of both worlds! - If users can wait 45 seconds to check their mail through a full Windows interface, why would they want to use a stripped-down, ugly, bug-ridden BIOS version? Why not just sync your Outlook folder with a PocketPC PDA and read it from your palmtop?
        Sadly, this is completely consistent with the lack of innovation plaguing every facet of the software industry. Increasingly, companies seem to embody the principle that their products are good enough for us crummy users - that the R&D expenditures tied to their profits are better spent on special-interest projects, than on genuinely improving their products. Office 2003 has a ton of document-lock features, useful only to large corporations who want to keep their files away from competitors (and, more likely, prosecutors looking for antitrust evidence...) It has NO use for the typical user. Meanwhile, Microsoft can't get around to fixing Office's goddamn bullets and autonumbering, so it's still a stinking pit of frustrating inconsistency. So this story is just more evidence that the current software market is hopelessly broken.

        - David Stein

    • I solved that with a handheld (palm m505 in my case) years ago.. has the additional advantage that you dont have to carry your laptop around all the time just coz of needing your PIM.

    • Wrong tool for the job... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by perly-king-69 ( 580000 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:28AM (#8609251)
      Use your PDA for storing contacts, not the PC?

    • Re:Talk about a misleading headline! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:30AM (#8609266)
      It's not like the BIOS transmits info anywhere else or logs keystrokes.

      and how do you know that? Has everyone forgotten the last fiasco with this company? for a quick reminder see http://www.cexx.org/phoenix.htm.

      Their PhoenixNET BIOS (circa 2001) would change your home page and search engine, pop up links on your desktop and in your web-browser and would automatically download and install software on your machine!

      And you're going to trust these people with your PIM data?
      • "Their PhoenixNET BIOS (circa 2001) would change your home page and search engine, pop up links on your desktop and in your web-browser and would automatically download and install software on your machine!"

        Really? Those phoenix coders must be very smart to write a BIOS that can update every operating system desktop that can run on a PC. Oh , or were
        you just refering to windoze?

    • DRM reads my email? (Score:5, Funny)

      by SatanicPuppy ( 611928 ) <Satanicpuppy@nosPAm.gmail.com> on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:32AM (#8609283) Journal
      I thought that's what we had the FBI for?

    • Re:Talk about a misleading headline! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Eric_Cartman_South_P ( 594330 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:35AM (#8609308)
      Dude, buy an Apple. Never turn the thing off, just close the lid. Need PIM info? Open the lid and the OS is responsive on a Powerbook before your hand makes it from lid to keyboard. Then just slap the thing shut when done. Try that on Windows and you'll have to reboot after a week at most. I've had my Powerbook go for two months without ever rebooting, opening and closing lid 10 times a day if not more. And never one crash of the OS.

      • ..buy an Apple. Never turn the thing off, just close the lid.

        I've no idea whether it actually crashed the OS or not, but having watched a few people stand at a podium to deliver a presentation only to discover that their apple laptop won't talk to the data projector after waking from hibernation, i'm quite sure not everyone shares your confidence in apple.

        • And I've never seen a machine running Windows (98,2000,XP) have this problem. Oh wait, I have...

          As well as the laptop resolution getting screwed up after detaching from a projector (Win2k).

          Having the screen on the laptop go black and stay that way until a reboot (WinXP).

          Or having the machine just freeze and die (win2k).
    • Rhetoric:~ mikeash$ uptime
      15:37 up 13 days, 14:18, 5 users, load averages: 0.62 0.97 1.03

      This is a portable which I turn off every night. It's ready to go (and can check my mail) in less time than an average PC takes to do its startup memory check.

  • A perfect demonstration... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jay Maynard ( 54798 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8608955) Homepage
    Zawinski's Law [catb.org] strikes again.

  • Solution looking for a problem (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) * on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8608958) Journal
    Ignoring the various 'Good God what else could they do' responses, do yuo *really* care about the 10 seconds or so it takes to come out of hibernation mode ? Enough to want DRM h/w on your machine ?

    Really ? Good for you. I don't.

    Simon.

  • Cool !!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Average_Joe_Sixpack ( 534373 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8608959)
    Now I can write an Outlook virus that takes out the system BIOS
    • Yeah, someone was thinking ahead when they decided on that one. Seems to me this might become a real problem, and with Microsoft wanting to make the BIOS more Windows compatible I can see hardware sales of motherboards through the roof because of viruses that just simply kill them. Someone didn't eat their Wheaties before they got to the office that day...

    • No you can't (Score:3, Informative)

      by spectrokid ( 660550 )
      The application cannot open or manipulate attachments, such as Adobe Acrobat .PDF files.

      RTFA, it will require a plugin in Outlook which basically will export your email to a flat ascii file which can be read by the BIOS. Not exactly the invention of the century, but I guess reasonably practical. If they make the fileformat open, you can program a linux version!!

      • Re:No you can't (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Felinoid ( 16872 )
        Actually it wouldn't.
        I take you back to the days BEFORE e-mail viruses.
        Most users would read BBS e-mail from a PC with ANSI enables.

        There were some features and defects in the Microsoft provided ANSI driver that would permit someone to lock up your keyboard or crash your machine.

        For a while I used that feature as a cheap macro system. But I dumpped it for security sake.

        The point is that when you heep features on eventually something bad will happen.
        Adding the ability to read e-mail to BIOS certenly quali

  • So? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lofoforabr ( 751004 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8608960)
    Why get such a BIOS? Increase BIOS complexity and you will end with a heavy, buggy bios. KISS!
    I, for one, welcome our old great Award BIOS!

    • Re:So? (Score:3, Informative)

      by sxpert ( 139117 )
      last I checked, Award == Phoenix....

  • I hate to say it... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by robslimo ( 587196 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8608962) Homepage Journal
    but with the prevalence of viruses and spam factory trojans contracted via the inboxes of lusers, this may be a case of lesser of two evils. *If I can disable it* then I don't mind.

  • How dare they! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Channard ( 693317 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8608963) Journal
    How dare such a potentially privacy infringing combination be developed? I find it sickening that this could allow someone else to go through my emails about generic viagra.
    • that's actually true, not just a joke.

      if you can just go into bios and get personal info, then all the OS password security is bypassed.

      on the other hand, if the bios needs a password to access this info, then what's the fucking point as it's just another hassle.

      fuck off Phoenix. now that DRM's becoming desirable by people with expensive lawyers you think you can have a piece of the pie too, but you're shit and your "innovations" are pieces of MS-style insecure boatware crap.

  • i see. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SinaSa ( 709393 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8608964) Homepage
    Ah, it allows me to access my Outlook data. Very good. But does it allow me to connect to the net and retrieve new data for viewing?

  • Great! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 )


    Now viral e-mail can spread even when your computer's down.

  • So? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Licensed2Hack ( 310359 )
    The NSA has been reading my email for years! :-P

    'check their Outlook data on a notebook computer without needing to boot the machine.'

    Sounds like another Outlook virus.

    • Re:So? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by timmyf2371 ( 586051 )
      Sounds like another Outlook virus.

      I was under the impression that it was the actual Outlook applications/Underlying OS which was the problem.

      Can you explain how a third-party BIOS/Email client which is able to access Outlook's data can cause Outlook viruses?

  • BIOS Alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by prgrmr ( 568806 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:01AM (#8608994) Journal
    Open Source BIOS anyone? Prohibitively expensive? Administratively impossibile? Too geek even for /.?

    • Re:BIOS Alternatives? (Score:3, Informative)

      by lxs ( 131946 )
      Well, there is linuxbios [linuxbios.org] but what I would really like to see is open firmware for intel architecture (not sure if that is possible)
      • Is this a functionally equivalent substitute for a single desktop or notebook system, or is should this really only be used in a cluster?

      • Re:BIOS Alternatives? (Score:3, Informative)

        by DarkMan ( 32280 )
        OpenFirmware for Intel is perfectly feasable - indeed, the portability of OpenFirmware was a design intent. No one makes such a board.

        On the other hand, it wasn't an Intel creation, and thus is suffereing from NIH (Not Invented Here). Intel are looking at recasting the whole boot up process, but they're using thier own replacement, and not OpenFirmware. They call it EFI, see, for example, http://deviceforge.com/articles/AT8747644820.html

        The claim is that Intel's solution is superior - and no doubt it
    • linuxbios.org
    • Sure there is a BIOS alternative, here you go: linuxbios.org [linuxbios.org]

    • Re:BIOS Alternatives? (Score:5, Informative)

      by ebuck ( 585470 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:20AM (#8609169)
      Try already exists.

      Look at:
      LinuxBIOS: http://www.linuxbios.org/index.html
      OpenBIOS: http://www.openbios.info/
      FreeBIOS: http://freebios.sourceforge.net/
      GBIOS: http://www.agelectronics.co.uk/gbios/

      Some (like LinuxBIOS) have boot times under a second from cold start to mounting / (root).

      Each comes with their own strenghts (and weaknesses). The trick will be to get everyone to adopt a better BIOS than the one pre-installed on their computer. Messing around with BIOS isn't as easy as messing around with a new web browser, so don't expect mass adoption any time soon.
      • Especially you can't set up a "multiboot" configuration for your BIOS (just keeping the original around, and if the replacement doesn't do what I need, I just boot the original), and if a BIOS installation fails, you might not even get to the point where you can flash your BIOS to repair it.

        I remember for the ZX Spectrum, there was an add-on module where you could put alternative ROMs in, and then could select which ROM it should use. Maybe something similar should be in mainboards.

  • Greatest. Idea. Ever. (NOT) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hoggoth ( 414195 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:02AM (#8609010) Journal
    Why just Outlook data? Why not extend this idea further. I dont USE Outlook, so I want my BIOS to enable me to check my Eudora mail, engage in ICQ, MSN-MSGR, and AIM chat, check the weather, stock quotes, movie times, and train schedules from my favorite web sites. To support all these things of course, my BIOS would need to bring up a sophisticated operating system... lets call it 'Bindows'. This 'Bindows' would be rather large, so it will need the ability to 'hibernate' quickly and wake up from hibernation quickly.
    Yes, this will be great.
    Much better than what we have now...

    • there's already something for this, it's called linuxbios [linuxbios.org]
    • In the old days we used to turn on the computer, enter into the BIOS, and do all our editing at that level. Real programs would go directly to the assembler, but if were lazy the code could be interpreted by the Basic in the BIOS. We could send the data off to tape or the line printer or the serial port or whereever. Sure, sometimes we would have to put a 8" disk in, spend an hour or so getting the switches right, and then wait another day to load in the dos. But mostly we just played at the Bios, mostl
    • I thought that only on MIT a developement of an arbitrary program ends when it is also capable reading email...

  • Whats the point? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dj245 ( 732906 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:04AM (#8609025) Homepage
    With 20 second hibernation restores, are people really so pressed for time that they have to read e-mail from their fricken bios? Leave the bios alone. Bioses generally work fine, are feature packed, and nowadays don't give people problems. If manufacturers need to diferentiate their products they should add usefull features like DVD and mp3 cd playing without booting. These sort of features are for when I am generally not sitting at the computer but just looking at the screen, usually saving the battery life or perhaps noise level (media pc anyone?) If I wanted to read e-mail I would just boot and read e-mail.
    • Twenty seconds seems an eternity to wait. Especially for something as trivial as looking up a phone number, or someone's address.

      I mean, you can do this in two to four seconds if you just had a regular address book. Every handheld designer knows this, and their power up times are minimal. Even my vernerable Newton powered up in about a second (and that's 1990's tech).

      If desktops are going to be competitive in this computing niche, the boot times (and hibernation times) really need improvement. I'm not

  • S.m.r.t. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Underholdning ( 758194 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:04AM (#8609030) Homepage Journal
    Ok, so here's what they do. They enable access to MS outlook information (address book, email etc) without having to go through the entire boot sequence.
    That means, your anti-virus product hasn't been launched yet, but you can still read that funny mail telling you to "see this amazing attachment".
    It also means, that they're basically providing an API to the outlook address book. That means, if you can fake that you're really just the BIOS requesting the information, you can make a virus that can access all the information it needs - undetected.
    Some might call this a feature. Other might call this Yet Another Reason To Avoid Phoenix And Outlook.

    • Re:S.m.r.t. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by MrIrwin ( 761231 )
      Whilst the BIOS will show virus ridden email, it will not execute virus content, there is no OS yet. This means you have a possibility to review your email to check for suspicious email without risk. Ever wondered why so many people still use Pine?

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:05AM (#8609033)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Because it should be much, much faster than that. "Seconds" is too long for PDA-style use of a laptop.
    • The quick loadtime is one reason I'm dying to try Linux; I recently used a Knoppix CD and found that it ran much quicker than Windows XP - even when booting into KDE!
      I, too, have a funny feeling that this is a move to make people think "Ooh, how useful!" and sneak DRM-compliant BIOS under the radar. Am I hopelessly paranoid, or will the next move be "Sorry, you can't download our trailer/demo/free song/sample chapter PDF unless your OS is DRM-compliant" (read: Windows with new BIOS)? And as other posters h
    • I really get the feeling they're trying any old tactics to sell Joe Public the idea of DRM.

      DRM tied to windows, that is, and the most virus prone POS mail client I know of. Phoenix used to have a good BIOS. As I'm moving away from MS, it appears their new products will be unwelcome on my new machines.

  • That is why I have a PDA..... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sentosus ( 751729 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:12AM (#8609101)
    Since it is instant on and negotiates with my 802.11b to grab emails in only a few seconds.

  • Causing more problems than you solve? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stopmotioncleaverman ( 628352 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:12AM (#8609104)
    Surely this has,if nothing else, the potential to simply create more problems than it solves?

    Solved: Annoying need to wait for a few seconds while my machine comes out of hibernate mode.

    Problem: A plethora of BIOS destroying viruses and worms, spread by email, capable of rendering whole systems useless.

    Given the (frankly silly) amount of worms circulating in today's email, would this really produce a worthwhile benefit? I fail to see how this produces more good effects than bad. If you really, honestly, have such a pressed schedule that you can't wait for your machine to come out of hibernate mode then

    a) You need a less pressing job
    and
    b) What are you doing on /.? :P
  • One can only imagine what other innocuous bells and whistles will be used to leverage DRM onto Joe Laptop's machine."

    ...the next big bad 'I Love You' type worm comes out and scrambles your windows before you even boot up!

  • file system (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:15AM (#8609125)

    id rather my bios just connected the HD and not actually read data from my files thanks

    what happened to doing a task but doing that task really well

    if writing the bios is simple enough that you have time to add applications then just drop the price, my alternator for my car doesnt include extras with it just does its job cheaply and well

  • BIOS (Score:5, Funny)

    by r00zky ( 622648 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:25AM (#8609216)
    BIOS: Acronym for Basic Input-Output System


    s/Basic/Bloated/

  • Wow! (Score:3, Funny)

    by inteller ( 599544 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:32AM (#8609279)
    So is there any way I can erase and use that 200Mb BIOS that it's going to take to cram in Outlook?

  • Basic?? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stiletto ( 12066 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:33AM (#8609288)

    BIOS - Basic Input Output System

    What does checking Outlook email have to do with _Basic_ Input or Output? Why don't they keep going and put a spreadsheet in the BIOS while they're at it?

    • Re:Basic?? (Score:3, Funny)

      by 1u3hr ( 530656 )
      What does checking Outlook email have to do with _Basic_ Input or Output? Why don't they keep going and put a spreadsheet in the BIOS while they're at it?

      And the spreadsheet will have a flight simulator.

  • BIOS means BASIC, damnit. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RedShoeRider ( 658314 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:35AM (#8609309)
    BASIC Input/Output System

    From someone who did, once, inadvertantly flash a bios with the wrong firmware and have to go though the hell that ensued to get a new firmware chip....the idea that the BIOS can directly connect to potentially damaging information is downright frightning. Imagine the potential if they allowed dynamic updating (think windows update), and the hell that could ensue if someone figured out how to hack its updating system.

    Perhaps those email-hoxes of old about a virus completely destroying your computer were actually profetic.

  • Wow nice that is something I do once a year.

  • Actually provides access to COPY of Outlook Data (Score:3, Interesting)

    by peterjt ( 50113 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @09:42AM (#8609393)
    I've read elesewhere that all this is doing is making use of an Outlook "extension" that, on a regular basis COPIES data from Outlook to a seperate area that the "quick check" application in the BIOS can access.

    So really, saying that it's providing "access" to Outlook data is slightly misleading. It's actually providing BIOS data to a "shadow" copy of the Outlook data
    • Seriously, I think you don't need DRM in order to accomplish this plain task. Also word 'Outlook' would be a pitiful addition to the original post, as this "separate area" could be written by any mail client, remote server monitor, autopr0n rss news feed, or whatever ;)

      I want my machine to do whatever I want it to do. When computers start to behave differently, I'll stop using them. Or I'll start looking for old C64 schematics! I can imagine my laptop shutting me outside my home. Or filling my police record

  • Come to think of it, it has a Phoenix BIOS. http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/Compaqtabl etpc/us/download/19800.html " The QuickLook Utility is a collection of components which allow the user of a Tablet PC model listed below to quickly and conveniently view their personal information manager (PIM) data without booting the tablet all the way up into the operating system."
  • My guess the next thing will be DRM bios in the read only memory, not reflashable. Or bios divided into ROM and flash part, DRM in ROM part of cause. How likely is it that non-ROM bios will be made illegal and posseion of ROM burning equipment will require license ?

  • OS on a RAM drive? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by siglercm ( 6059 )
    I usually don't have anything much to add, but at the risk of being shown how insignificant my thought is....

    Isn't running an "app." from the BIOS kinda like running an OS on a RAM drive? With this technique, isn't the BIOS is just a read-only image of a low-end OS to run a single app?

    I mean, when RAM drives are cheap, won't everything be similar to this, except a full-blown OS will run? If so, I'm not sure this has much to do with DRM at all, FWIW. Orthogonal, anyone?

    Clemmitt
  • This just says to me that Phoenix is in trouble financially. They make what is essentially a commodity item that is becoming increasingly obsolete. There's no great innovation in the BIOS market because no one really uses the BIOS like they used to. So they're trying to cram new features into it.

  • Program evolution (Score:3, Insightful)

    by srussell ( 39342 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @10:01AM (#8609645) Homepage Journal
    All programs evolve until they can send email.
    -- Richard Letts
    Jamie Zawinski, author of the original Netscape email program, is also quoted as rephrasing this as "All programs grow to encompass the functionality of email reading"

    They weren't kidding, were they? The corollary is, then, that all devices evolve until they can read email.

    • You mean, some day I'll be able to read email with my light switch?
      Maybe if I'm pressing it for more then 5 seconds it'll send me the message by morsing through the light bulb ...
  • I've been thinking for years about what it would take to get the BIOS to scan the PCI bus, find a network card, hook it to some memory registers, and allow port access. This could be described as a BIOS edition of NetBus or Sub7. Considering that a fully functional terminal program can be written in less than 10k and current BIOS chips have at least 64kb (that I'm aware of) this isn't rocket science to figure that the opportunity is there. I think the most difficult hurdle would be to account for differe

  • and what happens when.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by schodackwm ( 662337 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @10:04AM (#8609687) Homepage
    an unauthorized someone gets hold of your passworded laptop? Is it possible that you have mail or addresses that you don't want to share with thieves?

    I don't see any p/w or other protection mentioned in the PIM-in-NSBIOS (Not So Basic I/O sys)... so now I'm gonna need a dongle to secure the data?

    Amen to all who said vendors should leave the BIOS "basic."
  • This just shows what a pile of crap the Windows portable architecture is. My Powerbook hasn't been rebooted since the last time I updated the OS (current 68 days ago). When I open the screen, it's ready to work in 10 seconds. It joins whatever wireless network is available and checks my mail, immediately. When I close the screen, it goes to sleep. This is in stark contrast to the legions of Windows laptop users I know that *know* about 'Hibernate' mode or whatnot but are mortified to use it since they're ba
  • You guys are so behind, phoenix changed name to Firebird and then Firefox a looong time ago.
  • Hey! The BIOS and I have something in common!

  • Let Microsoft/Phoenix kill themselves.

    Did not M$ learn any thing from the Intel serial number in the processor, killing there sells. The only reason that M$ does not want to do the DRM in the OS is that it does not want to have to share the APIs ( because of antitrust ) and can lock in people to M$ to look at there own documents if you go to switch to Linux that your will loose your documents.

  • So called trusted computing will result in... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Fuzuli ( 135489 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @10:32AM (#8610035)
    birth of new companies, or rise of small ones. Why ? because i will certainly prefer a bios with no crap built in, and many others like me, will create the demand for such computers. Even if most players in hardware scene prefer to sell "secured" products, there will be a huge demand for clean bioses and computers.
    Remember what happened when overclocking became something that most guys at least wanted to try ? One by one, all motherboard manufacturers (except Intel of course) began to produce models that allowed better support for overclocking. Now it's easy to modify bus speed by a precision of 1 mhz or something if i'm not wrong. No jumper mess or other weird tricks are necessary ( i remember taping of some parts on my celeron 300 to have 2.4 volts)
    So, MS or whomever supports this kind of movements will create a huge push for migration to more open systems. It's not hard to guess that all major apps will suddenly refuse to work on "untrusted" computers. So, that will create another great oppurtunity for open source software, for it'll possibly be the only option to work on "clean" computers.
    So there is a strong possibilty forusers migrating to "open" alternatives, which may create a nice **ck y*u effect to MS and supporters of such "trusted" environments
    • Nice idea in theory , but you're forgetting the sheep mentality that afflicts 99% of PC users. If MS/Intel/Phoenix say its a good idea then baa baa
      it must be a good one. And even if they don't think about even that much they'll just go with the flow and buy whatever everyone else has.
  • Once you start adding features like this, its no longer a BIOS, its a ROM based OS...

    The role of a BIOS is just to provide a abstraction layer between the OS and the hardware ( ok, and to get the OS booted.. ).. thats it.. nothing more nothing less..

    • These days it doesn't even get used as an abstraction layer, most (all?) 32 bit OSs use
      their own drivers. The BIOS is simply there for
      bootstrapping the loader program.

  • Mini-OSes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kavau ( 554682 ) on Friday March 19, 2004 @03:03PM (#8613590) Homepage
    It seems rather ridiculous to put features such as email into the BIOS. Of course this is just a marketing ploy to spark interest in their DRM BIOS, but actually they do have a point: Who needs all the features of a full-powered, multitasking multimedia operating system to do such mundane things as quickly checking for email?

    A better, and actually quite sensible, solution, would be to have a number of highly specialized mini-operating systems on your computer: One that runs in text mode and boots in a few seconds, for checking email, or remotely logging into another machine; one that boots even qicker, for taking notes at a meeting; another one for watching DVDs (I believe Linux is making inroads here already...); a third one with the capability of browsing simple web sites (no Java, Flash, etc.) Of course what I called different operating systems will probably just be one and the same operating system, with different services enabled. All that's needed is actually the possibility to start the OS in different configurations, and the ability to shut down all but the most essential services (which shouldn't be many).

Slashdot Top Deals

"Facts are stupid things." -- President Ronald Reagan (a blooper from his speeach at the '88 GOP convention)

Close