Lifting The Lid On Computer Filth 567
IainMH writes "There's a story over at BBC News about how work stations contain nearly 400 times as many microbes than lavatories. Gross. 'A desk is capable of supporting 10 million bacteria and the average office contains 20,961 germs per square inch, according to research. ... By contrast, the average toilet seat contains 49 germs per square inch, the survey showed.'"
Hmmm.... (Score:5, Informative)
Same story at CNN [cnn.com]
At least... if you're working at your workstation its 'your' bacterias and not some others ass/shit/piss?
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Now if you combined the food rich environment of your keyboard with the poison producing bacteria from your colon, you start to have a real problem.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
So what you're saying is that I should not shit on my keyboard. Good to know.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
It sounds like someone holds prejudicial opinions regarding keyboard-shitters. To each his/her own, yeah? :-( Granted, my friends have a complete aversion to my keyboard, but that's the way I like it.
I have a shitty keyboard (Score:5, Funny)
Just to be on the safe side (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Just to be on the safe side (Score:5, Funny)
There's already a colon on the keyboard. Oh, wait...
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
The userbase must be pretty sad... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The userbase must be pretty sad... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I borrowed the big version from a local dealer. This box had been doing duty in a smoky bar, and I had to clean it first. At the intake end, the goop was just what you'd expect. After the UV element, it was just black odorless carbon dust.
Ozone is a bit iffy-it eats plastics. We got into all this through a moldy basement. We did ozone, and all kinds of things suffered early failures because of it. Rubber bans are particularly vulnerable.
Of course, ozone eats people too, which is why it can only be used after hours.
Now, this is for cleaning the cirulating air, not surfaces.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Interesting)
PC World [pcworld.com] also notes on this subject. Fellowes is announcing that they are going to begin injecting a product called "Microban" into their keyboards and mice, to create an environment where bacteria cannot survive and grow.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
Darn it! I knew there was a use for that old Russian monitor that glowed even when it was unplugged. Curse modern low-emissions monitors!
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's hard to find non-anti-bacterial hand soap. The main ingredient in all of them is Triclosan. Triclosan only kills bacteria after 1 to 3 minutes of constant contact. During normal hand washing, it's totally useless. The alcohol gel sanitizers do actually work but it feels like I'm rubbing snot on my hands.
-B
Surprising? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Surprising? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Surprising? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Surprising? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Surprising? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Surprising? (Score:4, Interesting)
There is a guy who sits in the same office as me. When he sneezes I can 'taste' it for about a minute after. Don't know if he puts his hand over his mouth or not.
When it happens nowdays I just hold my breath discreetly and walk out of the office for a few minutes.
Re:Surprising? (Score:5, Informative)
We were talking about this just a couple of days ago, because they have been teaching it to the kids in school. You should always Sneeze into your elbow [pitt.edu], doctors have been doing this for years.
Re:Surprising? (Score:5, Interesting)
"There are about 10^13 cells in the human body. There are also about 10^14 bacteria living in and on the average human body.
That means each one of the cells in your body is outnumbered by bacteria 10-1.
Now, turn around in your seat and look at the person next to you, and think about just what you are looking at..."
(I checked the figures here [wikipedia.org])
Re:Surprising? (Score:4, Funny)
Biomass? (Score:5, Informative)
So, your cells still constitute the majority of your body's biomass.
Re:Surprising? (Score:4, Insightful)
This shouldn't bother you anymore than the fact that a city contains stonework and metalwork. Fact is, our bodies are great civilizations of living things. Our cells, containing our DNA, is certainly central to the system that emerges as "us". But the symbiosis with other little living things is, in fact, crucial to our continued and happy existance.
In answer to the implied question raised, "think about just what you are looking at...", I must say that for me, I guess I would have to admit to seeing a great collection of living things that through simple ignorance was bestowed with the illusion that it is singular...
Further (Score:4, Informative)
It goes futher than symbiotic bacterial cells with their own genetic futures. Mitochondria may have originated as separate organisms that evolved to exist symbiotically inside a larger cell... mitochondrial DNA is separate from nuclear DNA. [brown.edu] Mitochondria cannot be produced by cells de novo.
It would be foolish to say that only the parts of a cell which are created by genomic DNA are human. Our animal cells cannot function without mitochondria.
The bacteria are not the stonework or metalwork of our bodies' cities, though. A closer metaphor would be that a country is a body made up of humans as cells, and that the animals which support each person are the bacteria that outnumber the cells. America is a country made up of people, not cows.... but it survives by consuming dozens of cows per person every year. Rats eat our garbage.... that is, intestinal bacteria eat our digestive waste. Etc.
A body without bacteria is no more desirable than a country without non-human animals. It's beyond silly.
Get over it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Iron Gut (Score:4, Interesting)
This is true. I lived in Asia for a few years, ate some of the most discusting things on the planet out of street stalls (usually I was really drunk), now, nothing bothers my iron gut, as I have quite the worldly bacteria living in there, takes care of just about everything.
Re:Get over it! (Score:3, Informative)
No more Computer-TV tray (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No more Computer-TV tray (Score:4, Funny)
Not like the stupid little chared spot modern CPUs leave.
No, when it comes to warming food the old machines are clearly superiour.
KFG
Mandatory Porn reference. (Score:5, Funny)
Ho hum. (Score:5, Insightful)
I guarantee you, if you cleaned your toilet as often as you clean your computer, it would (a) be utterly filthy, and (b) reek like nothing you've ever experienced before.
Re:Ho hum. (Score:5, Funny)
If you think the blue piss puck smells like "mint", then I must advise you; what you've been chewing for the past fifteen minutes is probably NOT gum.
but are the microbes "bad"? (Score:5, Funny)
lick a public toilet seat you'll probably get real sick
lick your desk and your work mates will just think you're a freak.
Re:but are the microbes "bad"? (Score:5, Insightful)
The desk has people respirating over it and sneezing in the area. Everybody is going out, touching various things, tossing out bad stuff from the office fridge and then borrowing a stapler. It's likely got a significantly wider range of bacteria and viruses that can cause infection in a human.
--
Evan "And the worst thing out there are buffets, especially the salad bars"
Re:but are the microbes "bad"? (Score:5, Funny)
You are not eating enough fiber!
the excrement only touches a small portion in the center of the ass, whereas the toilet seat contacts the washed cheek.
While generally true, this may not apply to some of my coworkers. I've seen large tracts of fecal matter smeared across the toilet seats at work. Either someone here has an anatomically incorrect anus, or their shitting technique needs improvement. Either way, there are some most unpristine asses around here.
Add to that the fact that commercial toilets are generally disinfected once a day. When's the last time you saw a doorknob being disinfected?
Makes sense... but I'd still rather shake your hand than grip your ass cheek.
Re:but are the microbes "bad"? (Score:5, Funny)
After hearing about your coworker's issues, maybe I'll just wave. :)
--
Evan
I guess we really DO need... (Score:5, Funny)
Old news (Score:5, Insightful)
Not Surprising at All... (Score:5, Insightful)
And don't even get me started on the transmission of scabies in shared upholstered swiveling office chairs...
Re:Not Surprising at All... (Score:5, Interesting)
Moral of the story? Keep it clean!
My worst experience as a tech. (Score:4, Funny)
Me: Ok I'll go check it out.
Me (later): Ok, keyboard keys are sticky... and there is no software problem... and there are a lot of porn sites in the browser cache........
Me resigns.
Re:Not Surprising at All... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not Surprising at All... (Score:5, Funny)
Not quite the same (Score:5, Funny)
ALWAYS wash your hands after using a public keybrd (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd like to know why no one has come up with a decent, washable keyboard. Most of the ones on the market are way too expensive are just too impratical. Are there some engineering problems with the design? Outside of the whole water-and-electricity-don't-mix thing I mean.
Re:ALWAYS wash your hands after using a public key (Score:5, Interesting)
He tasked a couple of box monkeys with splitting the keyboards open and pulling the keyboard assemblies out, separating them from the electronics. The cafeteria ran them through the high pressure steam cleaning dishwasher system, and they came out looking and working like new! Strange but true.
Re:ALWAYS wash your hands after using a public key (Score:5, Interesting)
Same goes for any electronics. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Same goes for any electronics. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:ALWAYS wash your hands after using a public key (Score:4, Informative)
Go here [webtechgeek.com] for some fun tips.
If there's electricity in the water when you clean it, then you forgot to unplug it, and your computer is too close to water anyway.
Metastory reports: (Score:5, Funny)
1) Find everything to be dirtier than toilets
2) Make things out of toilets
3) Profit!
There's no missing step! Well, except that these things will not actually be toilets, and thus will be found dirtier than toilets. But why? Because people know that toilets are "dirty", and thus clean them! So many things are assumed to be clean because they are not specifically used in a way that would seem to make them dirty, and so they don't get cleaned. No story here, move along.
Anyone us an air purifier to keep dust down? (Score:4, Interesting)
One thought that occurred to me was to get an air purifier... one that circulates air with a HEPA filter. Does anyone use one of these in their computer rooms and does it actually make a difference as far as dust goes? They also have ones with UV lightbulbs, maybe this would cut down on the microbe populations? I'm more concerned with the constant accumulation of dust than anything else.
Re:Anyone us an air purifier to keep dust down? (Score:4, Informative)
It works for my allergies, at least. Lasts a couple months. You should see the filter when it's done...very nasty dark shade of gray. I did notice less dust overall.
Re:Anyone us an air purifier to keep dust down? (Score:3, Informative)
Ionic Breeze
Yes they're expensive. Yes they work.
You get a "deal" if you buy two of them so find a bacteriophobe geek friend to split the order.
HEPA filters work great... (Score:4, Interesting)
The inner room, the actual clean room, then just maintains itself through positive air flow. There are a couple layers of filters that take out basically all particles. The bottom of the walls are open so that the air can continually flow out.
Well this works REALLY well (well enough to work on micro processors in there). There's basically no dust in the outer room, never mind the clean room.
So if you want to use it in your home, you'll need to make sure that your doors/windows are reasonably well sealed and stay closed. It'll do you no good if a big entrance for dust is open all the time. You also need to keep the air flowing, since some dust WILL get in and it's only getting out via the airflow. Just having it run with your AC probably won't do a ton. You'll probably need continous airflow.
But ya, they work great if you give them an environment to work in. You won't get cleanroom conditions in your house, of course, but you can pretty effectivly eliminate dust, at least in a single room.
Infections I've gotten from keyboards: (Score:3, Funny)
Ringworm (once)
two sinus infections (suspected)
and
the herp...
Well, not from the keyboard, from the skank I was emailing, but I'd like to think it counts....
Re:Infections I've gotten from keyboards: (Score:5, Interesting)
Code Smells (Score:3, Funny)
This explains why the XP technique of using Code Smells [c2.com] is so effective. "This code smells like crap!"
What about both? (Score:3, Funny)
What the article fails to say (Score:3, Funny)
This isn't really surprising... (Score:5, Interesting)
And? (Score:5, Insightful)
The human body has evolved to be pretty capable of protecting against the things around us people now call "gross", and the rarer diseases that we come in contact with generally aren't stopped by staying "clean" anyhow.
Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea is that first you count all the microbes in an area, then you claim that all of them are germs. This way you spread FUD about health and get people to waste money on anti-bacterial this, that and the other thing. Germs are microbes, but not all microbes are germs.
Like inside my computer... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Like inside my computer... (Score:3, Interesting)
You people made a mistake (Score:5, Funny)
pathogenic? (Score:3, Interesting)
I work on LOTS of computers and they are usually (Score:5, Informative)
Really though, the FIRST thing that any computer I service gets is CLEANED.
The keyboard is the most disgusting thing of all, people eating, drinking, picking their noses, scratching their privates, you name it. The keyboard is a petri dish.
I mix 50/50 antiseptic mouthwash and 91% rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle and mist the keyboard, then scrub it with a nylon scrub brush. I have an air compressor with an aardvark nozzle that I blow the keyboard out with. The keyboard looks 100% new (unless it turned yellow from a SMOKER) and it 100 times cleaner that it came in as.
I open the PC and blow all the crap out, including the drives and fans. If the owner is a SMOKER, then the job is extra nasty and takes more aggressive cleaning. Cleanest computers come from elderly, upper class people, filthiest computers come from poor people who usually have lower hygiene standards and more likely to SMOKE than the upper class folks.
Also, computers on the floor in a carpeted room get clogged up with carpet dust no matter how clean the habits are of the owner, carpet disintegrates as it wears out and the fibers that break off (as dust) get sucked into the running PC fans..
do what? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe we all better... (Score:3, Funny)
Well duh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Bacteria usually need food to multiply on. People don't tend to eat in bathrooms, but they do eat at a desk. Keyboards are filled with places for dust, food, moisture, etc to collect. Great places for bacteria to multiply. Keyboards are also very hard to clean, and almost impossible to clean well because of all the spaces inside them.
What upsets me most though is the comparison to toilet seats that winds up in every "thing X has this many germs/inch article". In understanding anything context and perspective is king. The implications is that if something is dirtier than a toilet seat, it just MUST be dirty as hell. It's a rare article that points out that maybe the premise (toilet seats are really dirty) is at fault. I'd be more interested in comparisons to things that ARE dirty, like a cutting board after having cut raw meat on it. Unfortunately articles like these always end up as the "interesting little tidbit" articles in newspapers where they have to grab your attention and don't have time for things like giving out real information.
own bacteria (Score:3, Interesting)
If they are your own bacteria you're used to, they're no more harmful than.....anything else, because you've got a natural immunity to them from *living with them.*
An interesting finding definately, but not a dangerous one at all.
Don't use your hands on washroom doorhandles. (Score:3, Insightful)
Makes you wonder how it gets there in the first place.
Re:Don't use your hands on washroom doorhandles. (Score:5, Funny)
I recall brainstorming a way to actually prevent someone from leaving the restroom without washing their hands. I was at Applebee's of all places, and at least 5 different guys walked out of the bathroom without even a glance at the sink. I went through a million different technical ways and all were easily circumvented. I noticed when I washed my hands in the bathroom, others were more likely to as well.
I finally figured that the best way was to have either a hot chick sit by the door and say, "Did you wash your hands?", or a withered old one-eyed crone point a translucent finger at those who didn't and scream, "UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!".
Maybe follow them into the resturant if they refuse. "UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN! Shun him who walks among you - UNCLEAN!"
Tech support nightmares (Score:3, Funny)
I can see it now. There will be more calls to harrassed tech support people from clueless morons who have read the article, and then "disinfected" their computers by washing them off in buckets of disinfectant.
Yeah, so? Here's a poll for you... (Score:4, Interesting)
a) scream and run out of the restaurant.
b) pick the bug off and continue eating.
c) calmly point out the problem to the waitperson and ask for another salad.
d) get all in a huff and sue the restaurant, the waiter, and the food vender.
This situation has happened to me twice. The first time, my answer was "b". The second time (years later) my answer was "c" (I think the bug was uglier than the little inch-worm thingy).
I suppose you could offer "e) ignore the worm and eat the salad. The worm can look out for itself." But that's just a little bit too far for me.
There is stuff everywhere. Get over it.
I just cleaned my keyboard (Score:3, Funny)
Tips For Geeks (Score:3, Informative)
Hey there, my friends and I have come to the same result in our biology class when we grew bacteria that we have swiped from different surfaces. Things like keyboards and mice were nightmares compared to toilet lids. However, this is not the ned and here is what you can do.
First of all get anti-bacterial gel to wipe your hands after you use a bathroom. Secondly, buy some anti-bacterial wipes and wipe your keyboard every morning. These items are small enough to store in your office and cheap enough to buy on a regular basis. Also, I have noticed that a lot of my friends liked to sneeze and then go straight for the keyboard. It did not really bother me until they started doing it while using my box; that's when I put a box of wipes right next to my monitor. Most of my friends still sneeze, but instead of wiping their hands on my keyboard, they do it on a wipe. Putting a box of wipes on your table is a polite way of saying "please use that if you sneeze."
I have to admit that my gf's brother still has zero understanding when it comes to personal hygine (or lack thereof). When it comes to his case, I tell him to "wipe his fucking hands off!" Works like a charm.
Suggestions... (Score:3, Informative)
1) Shop Vac -- $20 from WalMart for a 1x1 (1HP x 1Gallon) container.
2) Isopropyl alcohol -- 50c or so for a pint
3) Baby Wipes -- about $4.00 for a box - unscented
4) Glass cleaner -- $1 at the Dollar Store
5) Scouring Powder -- 50c at WalMart
The ShopVac is perfect for the dust bunnies and stuff inside the system unit. Be careful around fans as the suction can spin them much faster than the typical case fans are rated for. Some of these vacs are reversible to blow air.
Isopropyl alcohol is great for cleaning mice. I tend to just throw away the keyboards since they're so cheap and so tedious to clean. If you do need to clean them I recommend actually removing the keys and dumping them into some soapy water. Rinse. Then set them to dry on a towel. A hair dryer can help dry up residual moisture. Alcohol is also good for some types of sticky residue from stickers and tape.
Baby wipes are convenient in a lot of places. I use them for the system unit and general wipedown. They work just as well as the Computer Wipes but are about 1/10 the cost. They are damp so don't use them inside the case.
Glass cleaner is good for body grime. Make sure it has ammonia (most do). Be careful when using it near Scouring Powder that contains chlorine bleach.
Scouring powder is a last resort for marker stains on plastic housings. It will scratch a little, but can help get out tougher permanent marker.
Other useful things include a toothbrush, eraser pencil, air can, Qtips, and cotton buds.
PC's at Hospitals (Score:4, Interesting)
At a different hospital I was at for a short time, no such policies for removing systems exist. Scary.
Taken from a popular microbiology textbook (Score:5, Informative)
"The vast majority of bactera on Earth are harmless."
*sigh* (Score:4, Informative)
Wonderful.
I've stopped really caring to hear, every 1.5-2 years, about the shocking and revolutionary study that -gasp!- places that get daily use sans daily cleaning are actually dirtier than places that are - given their function - cleaned nightly.
However, there is a quote and its bretheren that never cease to amaze me:
The study found that where office workers who were told to clean their desks with disinfecting wipes, bacterial levels were reduced by 99%.
Hmm ... let's take a look at this ...
1. Disinfecting wipes can take out bacteria. Woohoo. We know this.
2. People are being encouraged to live in a germ-free world - and we'll suffer because of it.
I believe we're headed straight for another Black Plague, given our disposition towards feeling the need to scrub and kill every last germ off our surfaces. This is silly, and is in fact making us weaker as a whole, as we now have zero exposure to elements that, 50 years ago, we came into daily or near-daily contact with.
A few-point plan to save us from ourselves:
a. If you go to the bathroom, wash your damn hands after you're finished. And this does not just mean rinsing them under cool water - this means the full soap and warm-hot water treatement.
b. We're not Howard Hughes. Let a few germs go; they'll likely do us all a lot more good than bad. Yeah, they're all over your skin, clothes, and so on ... but to want to rid yourself of 'em is tantamount to saying that we ought to rip out our eyelashes - because there're symbiotic crawlies living in there, and that gives me the willies.
c. The only people that antibacterial soap ought to be dispensed to are nurses and the like. Antibacterial products are the result of an over-indulgent Western imagination rising up with our xenophobia with a desire to remain King or Queen of our Domain.
Anyway ... that's what I think. ;) Please wash your hands after going to the bathroom ... other people have to touch that door too, you know!
I'll Believe It When I See... (Score:4, Insightful)
Number of germs and bacteria is not nearly as relevant as which ones. Of course you're going to get a bunch of rhinovirus on desks and keyboards. People breathe. But on toilet seats you're going to get E. coli. In the right place, inside your intestines, they're just dandy. Eat some, and you're in for a world of hurt.
Of course the germs were there. They've always been there. A reasonably healthy person carries just as many and spreads them around, and is not suddenly susceptible to something just because someone counted them.
The article was ridiculous, sensationalistic, half-science, and I blame BBC far more for that than Dr. Gerba. They've been leaning this way for years now. They making more factual errors, and not correcting them, but worse, they're writing it more like tabloids.
Re:Brought to you by... (Score:3, Informative)
No, they didn't.
Clorox [cloroxdisi...gwipes.com] did.
Re:Brought to you by... (Score:4, Informative)
The area where you rest your hand on your desk has - on average - 10 million bacteria.
So guess where the source is, boys and girls. Wipe your desk then, cut off your hands?
It has been estimated that only 1/10 of the cells within and upon the human body really "belong" to us. We are host. Enviroment. The "World as we know it," to a good many teeny-tiny little critters.
If you really want to get paranoid about something, get paranoid about money, which passes from hand, to hand, to hand. Your own desk doesn't really rank that high on the risk list, seeing as how its population is largely an extension of your own.
Unless you're selling disinfectant products.
Of which honey is one of the best, although it's a bit tough on keyboards and the general office enviroment.
On a boo-boo a little honey, dusted with corn starch to deal with the sticky issue, works wonders, but neither Johnson & Johnson nor Clorox would make much money promoting that.
For disinfecting your desk (or hands) in a safe manner nothing really beats vodka or other high proof, food grade alcohol, but the moralists and politicians have made that an over pricey proposition.
KFG
Re:My solution (Score:3, Funny)
Re:My solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Modern society's obsession with disinfecting everything is weakening our immune systems. Your body is meant to be exposed to these kind organisms and such exposure strengthens your resistance.
Re:My solution (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not to say that it's good to wallow in filth all day, but chances are the bugs on your desk and keyboard are 99.9% completely harmless, with the other 0.1% being a very mild hazard that you're probably more likely to get from something else (another posted mentioned warts as an example). Your best defense is to wash your hands before eating. Hopefully that's common sense.
Every time you breathe in you swallow about 60,000 bacteria. According to the linked article that's like licking your spacebar clean. Can you imagine how many germs you pick up drinking out of a bottle or cup that's been sitting out for even a few minutes? What about eating the rest of that sandwich you got yesterday? And only a few
=Smidge=
Re:My solution (Score:4, Insightful)
At the same time, places like computer work stations develop a remarkable amount of organic trash and all sorts of nasty germs. While there is a problem living in a steral enviroment, there is a greater problem living in a sespool. Your workstation should be cleaned and vacumed.
Problem is, in this throw away soceity of ours, the typical business enviroment isn't hip on paying someone to clean keyboards / mice / PC cases. I clean my keyboard from time to time. that is pull all 104+ keys, and throw all the plastic in the dishwaser. This would be impractical for a business to do, far more practical to just buy another damn keyboard.
Re:My solution (Score:4, Funny)
In that case, may I defecate on your keyboard? It's for your own good you know.
Same concept raising kids (Score:4, Informative)
The kids who go to day care (and are exposed to every germ and virus within a 30 mile radius, every day) DO get mild illnesses more often while they're little... but as they grow up their immune systems are super-fortified against just about everything, and they are much healthier overall then the kids whose parents disinfected everything and kept them away from any other kid with a sniffle.
Obviously this does NOT mean you should encourage your kid to eat dirt and so on, because a really concentrated source of bacteria (e.g. dog turd) could make them seriously ill, and it's a good habit to wash their hands before meals. It's just an interesting case of more of a good thing (cleanliness) NOT being better.
Re:Why? why does this keep showing up? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I find it helps... (Score:3, Funny)