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Hardware Technology

Bell Labs Plants Nanograss to Cool Mobile Chips 109

Posted by CowboyNeal from the ever-so-careful-watering-of-electronics dept.
LoadWB writes "TechWeb has an article about Bell Labs' new liquid cooling technology for mobile processors. The tech, called 'nanograss' is described as 'tiny tubes that spray liquid on chip hot spots.' The use of this cooling technology reduces the power required to actively remove heat from mobile processors. Other applications are possible, but it seems it was primarily developed for use with mobile CPUs."
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Bell Labs Plants Nanograss to Cool Mobile Chips More

Bell Labs Plants Nanograss to Cool Mobile Chips

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  • Apple could maybe use this and come out with those wonderful g5 powerbooks some time soon.

    Ahhhh.... G5 powerbook....drooling...

  • Yes ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by kimsh ( 203310 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:18AM (#8551853)
    but can you smoke it?

  • What's next, the nano-bong? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sean Clifford ( 322444 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:20AM (#8551864) Journal
    What's next, the nano-bong?

    Seriously, though, the technology looks pretty cool. The article likens it to a radiator so liquid is recycled in the closed system and liquid applied to the spot that needs it most. Only the requisite amount of liquid would be pushed through the system in order to reduce energy costs of pushing the liquid. Neat stuff.

    • I'm confused, because it sounds like the "nanograss" is some kind of little temperature-actuated valve. More likely: The real idea is not that liquid is applied only to problem areas, but that heat-removal is applied only to problem areas. Channels lined with tiny fins are cut all over the die, and liquid is pumped all through them. Liquid flowing through channels in cool areas is heated less than liquid flowing through channels in hot areas. The energy savings comes from needing a lot less coolant (mea

  • nanograss (Score:2, Funny)

    by Foktip ( 736679 )
    Its so small, it requires a microscipe to roll a doobie.
  • That we will have to refill whatever liquid they spray on the chip periodically.

    And you know it will be some over priced propriatary form of water ......

    • Re:But doesn't that mean ... (Score:5, Informative)

      by prat393 ( 757559 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:25AM (#8551893)
      No, it's collected somewhere, cooled, and reused. It's a closed system; the article compares it to a car radiator.
      • 'the article compares it to a car radiator.'

        And how many times have you re-filled (or your garage during an MOT) your radiator fluid?

        I suspect that there might be a need to refill it after a long time...

        NeoThermic
    • I don't think that the price of the liquid would be too much of an issue, since:
      1: it only sprays minute amounts
      2: you could always choose to fill it up with another liquid instead (anybody know the going price for liquid nitrogen?
      I think the real issue is if the average person be willing to open up their computer every few months to fill up the tank. Most average users i know would not be very willing to do that.
      • The system would probably designed so that the life of the cooling system would be long enough that the laptop would be outdated (on a decent scale) by the time it needed some kind of maintenence. A planned lifetime of about 5 years or so. When the time came the solution would probably be just to replace the mechanism rather than refill it (not to say that you couldn't do it anyway). The cost vs. life would be affordable though, and not having to worry about a way to refill the liquid would allow for g
        • as a company, and not a saintly non-profit organization that there to fullfil our every geek dream, I'd figure it's need a top up at least every few months. And they likly make it 20-30 dollars a fill. Likly the whole razor/razor blade model.
          • Replacing razor blades are something that normal people wouldn't be afraid to do. The average person isn't going to want to pay in time or money to get something like that done every month for their computer (regardless of how little of either), and considering it would be a new inconvenience rather than something that's always been there, a massive amount of people would be alienated, and avoid the technology. From a business standpoint it would be far more profitable to get a new technology adopted by
      • Why does this make me think of Dune (sadly I can only recall the game), where they build structures in the desert to collect moisture? Perhaps computers of the future will come a desk-version of these?
      • It's about $1.79/liter, IIRC... (got the cryogenic storage tank refilled not too long ago)

  • New error message.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by SmackCrackandPot ( 641205 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:24AM (#8551883)
    Error 0C001A41 - Processor has run out of liquid coolant. Please refill, then reboot.

  • Where does the energy go? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:25AM (#8551892)
    You still have the problem of getting the energy from the cpu out of the computer, just because you move it from the chip to the liquid doesn't really help all that much in itself. You still have all the same old problems. Apparently they have managed to come up with something, but it doesn't really seem to be such a great innovation as it is being hyped up to be..
    • It goes to the NanoExhaust, of course!

    • Re:Where does the energy go? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Awptimus Prime ( 695459 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:07PM (#8552097)
      but it doesn't really seem to be such a great innovation as it is being hyped up to be..

      Thanks, you saved me from starting a thread on that issue. I kept thinking "well, where does all this fluid go to cool off?".. The amount of fluid and circulation will be dependant on the CPU. If it's a hot running P4 or AMD64, then the resivor needed for proper cooling will be similar to that of a normal water cooling kit. While eliminating the need for a water pump, which can be made tiny enough to be insignificant compared to whatever you have to use as a radiator to dissipate the gathered heat.

      Personally, I'd trust a water cooling rig before something like this. Due to the teenie, tiny nature of the tubes, I could imagine any microscopic particles in the fluid would eventually clog it up. For instance, the chemicals released as the processor ages would be likely to collect and clog an area a few microns across, easily. Since it's a passive system, there would be no means to flush the blockage out via the pump. At least with normal liquid cooling, the user can repair problems before they cripple the system. With a solid-state solution like this, you'd be dead in the water.
      • There are already systems for moving miniscule amounts of liquids, for example for doing liquid chromatography (scroll down to "Environmental Sensors and Subsystems") [wimserc.org]. You could probably set up a system where the liquid circulates to a cooling area under the heating/cooling driving force. The advantage of this system would be to have this working fluid in much more intimate contact with the hot areas.

        "I could imagine any microscopic particles in the fluid would eventually clog it up."

        Given the standards f
    • The issue is the hotspots. The heat dissipation is not uniform over the entire die. Also, the die only covers a relatively small area of the package; the rest just accomodates bond out and routing to all the pins to the outside world.

      The concept here is to apply cooling where it's needed most and, presumably, to distribute the heat load across the die more uniformly. Now, if they could couple that with a closed coolant system in the package as a whole, that would really help.
    • Getting that heat away from the chip is the first concern. After that is is a fairly simple job to disperse it. Instead of using huge fins on the chip, you can now move that energy away from the chip where you have more room and ways to remove the heat from the box.

      It's the same way the radiator in your car works. It's only moving the thermal energy to a different place, but it's a place which absorbs the heat at a higher rate.
    • I would hope the liquid would be energy dissapative in itself. If it has a high enough heat capacity it can soak up and spread the heat out, effectively increasing it's area to dissipate.

  • Nano Nano (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:25AM (#8551895)
    In other news, John Deere has just released the "NanoMower".

    The NanoHippy add-on (for nanograss collection) is TBA. NanoNarc soon to follow. No word as to the cooling effects of either.

  • Hmm. . . . (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ookabooka ( 731013 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:27AM (#8551907)
    Brings a whole new meaning to watering the grass. . .
    Seriously though, its nice to see some new heat dissipation technologies. . . but it still comes down to how much thermal energy the chip pumps out. . . this is merely equivalent to a more efficient fan/heatsink. Though it should keep the chips at a cooler temperature (compared to their standard air counterparts) your laptop is still gonna get way too hot to put on your lap.

    • Re:Hmm. . . . (Score:5, Interesting)

      by moreati ( 119629 ) <alex@moreati.org.uk> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:54AM (#8552040) Homepage
      If it works, it will push the envolope, improving not just total power consumption, but weight, volume & temperature also.

      We already have water cooling at the macro level - a radiator + pump + heat exchanger + resevoir system will give a lower temp and less noise for the same or better heat removal capacity eg . these. [google.com]

      The improvement this would provide is watercooling at the micro level, just to the most critical components. The improvement in heat conductivity from the chip to the cooler should mean lower temps for the same transfer. Cooler.

      The bore of the tubes implies 50 ml liquid, rather than upto 1 litre (2 pints) currently used. Lighter.

      Less water for the same heat transfer means a smaller pump. Lower resistance in the chip due to lower temps would mean less power disipation. Longer running on batteries.

      On the air side (dissipation from the cooler to the environment), heat exchanger tubing with ~100 micron diameter (the artivle soesn't say they've done this, but it seems a logical extension) gives enourmous surface area/unit volume, giving better dissipation for the same airflow. Quieter.

      So I would surmise this is ideal for laptops, it improves all 3 of the key features - weight, longevity and actually-able-to-use-it-on-my-lapiness.

  • Will the pipes clog? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:28AM (#8551921)
    It's cool, but it sounds awfully complex. Wouldn't small amounts of impurity gum up the works pretty quickly?

    • Re:Will the pipes clog? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:02PM (#8552074) Journal
      Yes, probably so.... but since it's a *closed* system, this would presumably not ever happen unless part of a "nanotube" broke off and started floating around in the fluid, or something along those lines.

      It's sort of like saying "A hard drive sounds like a cool idea. But wouldn't a small amount of dust gum it up?" Yep - but that's why they're sealed, air-tight, and initially built in clean rooms.

    • Re:Will the pipes clog? (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      They have licensed some new technology from Nintendo called Super Mario something, I can't really recall the details, but apparently it's some kind of digital plumber thing...

  • Wow (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Un0r1g1nal ( 711750 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:29AM (#8551925)
    This looks like really good stuff, being able to localise the temperature dissipation would be handy for lots of technologies. I hope that this one gets developed fully and hits the markets soon. The better the cooling capacity the more we can clock our chips :)

    As for having to refill the cooling agent periodically, I doubt that this would be a problem with mobile phones, this would be a completly self contained cooling system, much like a heatsink is today, (only a heatsink doesnt have a liquid running around the inside of it :P). The likelyhood is that by the time the liquid would need replacing - if ever, the phone would be at lesat a few years old, and so the owner would probably have it lying around in some drawer since they got their brand spanking new top of the range all singing all dancing holographic video phone...
    • As for having to refill the cooling agent periodically, I doubt that this would be a problem with mobile phones, this would be a completly self contained cooling system, much like a heatsink is today, (only a heatsink doesnt have a liquid running around the inside of it :P).

      One thing to keep in mind is that this system doesn't magically make heat disappear. It just moves it around more efficiently. In a cell phone, we will probably hit a comfort limit before we hit a heat dissipation limit. Do you want to

  • so.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by MoFoQ ( 584566 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:40AM (#8551978)
    so the next gen laptops will use less power, be cooler, powerful, AND stoned?

    • Re:so.... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Oh great so now a hard drive company can claim that its too stoned to 'recall' where it saved my data.

      Damn you drugs!
      • that's nothing new though.....remember the GXP's?
        hell, most of my WD drives have temporary amnesia sometimes.
  • The cops can't find it!
  • Just lots of them [cheresources.com] on a microscopic scale.
  • I hope it doesn't come with odors.

  • Prior Art (Score:3, Funny)

    by Monkelectric ( 546685 ) <slashdot@mo n k e l e c t r ic.com> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:06PM (#8552092)
    tubes that spray liquid

    Im pretty sure I saw this technology being used in porno.

  • Cost? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bl33d4merican ( 723119 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:09PM (#8552105)
    Sure...this is a great idea, but how much will it cost? Anybody else remember the days where a good cpu fan cost significantly more than the $20 it does today? Not to mention the cost of refilling the coolant. Yes, you will have to do that. Those of us who have a car know that the radiator fluid must be changed ...oh every five to eight years or so. Keeping in mind the a computer's life span is much shorter, but also taking into account that a computer is often left on and running for days on end, it would probably have to be replaced at least once or twice. I also doubt this is something most users could do--and even some techies might have problems. (Is the coolant toxic?) How much would it cost to have somebody 'service' your computer's cooling device? If such problems aren't answered I doubt the product will be viable in the home-use market.
    • I imagine the coolant could come in a tiny little plastic tank that is plugged into the coolant sytem on the motherboard. When it gets low you could simply remove the tank, drop it off to be recycled and get a new one at Office Depot -- not unlike ink jet cartridges!

  • New marking on CPUs: This Side Up (Score:3, Insightful)

    by chiph ( 523845 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:10PM (#8552113)
    Wouldn't this require a CPU to be operated in only one orientation?

    Chip H.
    • Er... don't they have to be already anyways?

      Addbo
      • Not especially -- as long as the processer maintains electrical and mechanical contact with both the socket & heatsink, it'll run fine.

        I was also curious because they're using laptops in microgravity on the ISS & space shuttle. Convection currents don't, uhh, convect in those environments, as there's no such phenomenon as "heat rising" there. Thermal management has to be either via direct contact (aka heat pipes), or assisted in some fashion (Peltier coolers, big fans, etc).

        Chip H.

  • Crack! Splash! D'oh! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by IntergalacticWalrus ( 720648 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:14PM (#8552132)
    Cooling liquids in portable devices. Sounds like a bad idea to me. What if you break it? That would most definitely not be fun.

  • usually called MEMS fluidics (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:29PM (#8552209)
    This was called MEMS fluidics before, and is being researched at many places for at least 2-3 years now. The term nanograss is just a buzz word to take advantage of the term "nano". If the channels are 100s of microns, how can they be "nano"? Its obviously a marketing term. Lots of research is going on in MEMS fluidics, specially for molecular biology and diagnosis. Thinsg like lab-on-a-chip, etc.
  • Wouldn't this produce steam or condensation? Water or liquids don't just disappear - if there is no other form of matter created that means build up - right?

    What happens if another substance gets mixed into this liquid?? - say a piece of carbon from the chip??
  • Elaborating on the messages about clogging and heat dissipation...

    Inkjet printers are made with disposable heads attached to the ink cartidge, because clogging of those tiny pipes is a real problem. I can just see you powering your nanograss-cooled computer up after an extended downtime and having it overheat because the tubes were clogged.

    And you still have to get rid of the heat somehow.

    Hopefully as more information becomes available we'll find that there's some general misunderstanding about what the
  • Maybe by Cray a while back? Can someone confirm?
  • Chip-generated heat, for example, can cause blade servers in densely packed racks to overheat, and can suck up notebook battery juice by requiring power-hungry coolant systems.

    Your average CPU fan will consume approximately 0.5W of power. It is cheap, relatively reliable and it works.

    This fan alone would run for about 70 hours on a 3000mAh battery. Compare that to the average battery life time of a modern laptop and you will see that fans are not exactly power-hungry coolant systems.

    Why replace somethin
  • In the case of chips, they would be used in channels that could be as much as several hundred microns in diameter

    I always thought that nanotechnology was things that were in de order of a nanometer in circumference.

    and added to that: where is my superconducting chip anyway? reading the publications from Bell Labs in nature around 2001 and 2002 i thought they would come up with that stuff pretty soon. here is a funny story about that. Sorry about the pwd protection

  • A word from technology inventor (Score:5, Informative)

    by nanograss ( 761920 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:42PM (#8552645)
    Guys, certainly a great pleasure to see so much interest in our technology.

    Unfortunately, the TechWeb article is not that accurate. In particular, the statement that "nanograss" consists of tiny tubes that can spray liquid on chip hot spots is totally off mark.

    What we call "nanograss" is a carpet of tiny nanocolumns (or nanoposts, but not tubes) each several hundred nanometers in diameter that cover the surface of say microchannel. The posts are treated with water repellant polymer coating and thus are not easy to wet. As the result the cooling liquid (such as water) can't penetrate inside this carpet and stays suspended on the tips of the nanoposts. Thus, flow of a liquid in a microchannel that has walls covered with the nanograss requires much less pressure head than in a regular channel. The liquid literally slides along the walls without touching them suspended by a tiny layer of air as in air hockey table.

    Now, the trick is that we can intentionally design the nanograss such, that it can hold the liquid suspended on nanoposts only at the temperatures below a certain predetermined threshold. If the temperature exceeds this threshold the liquid sags through the nanograss and gets into direct contact with the wall. Needless to say that in this case thermal transfer from the wall to the liquid is greatly enhanced; the thin layer of air that isolates the wall from the cooling liquid is now gone. Thus the microchannels with the coolant that are located above the hottest areas on the chip (so-called hot spots) will have coolant penetrating through the nanograss and thus provide much better cooling exactly where the hot spots are. The system is self-adjusting and would automatically adapt to any arrangement of the hot spots. The obvious applications are in CPU and GPU cooling, as well as in telecom power electronics.

    In addition to the application in cooling, there are multiple applications in other areas, ranging from electrical nano-batteries and biochem lab-on-a-chip devices to seagoing vessels. Indeed, wherever we have liquids we also have solid surfaces that contact them; thus you can think of a countless nanograss applications out there.

    For those of you who are interested in further details the link to the Bell Labs press release is

    http://www.newstream.com/cgi-bin/display_story.cgi ?12664

    Also, the work will be published in May, 11 issue of Langmuir.

    Best Regards, Tom Krupenkin
    • If the temperature exceeds this threshold the liquid sags through the nanograss and gets into direct contact with the wall.

      Excuse my ignorance, but why is this better than just letting the liquid flow over the entire wall?



      • There are two reasons. First of all, in order to achieve the most effective cooling at the minimal coolant flow rate what you really want is to keep the whole surface of your chip at a constant predetermined temperature (which is mostly defined by the nature of the chip and the temperature of the surrounding environment). The heat flux that you can transfer through the wall to the fluid is directly proportional to the temperature difference between the chip surface and the cooling liquid, with the coeffic
  • "...and it's all thanks to YES-I-Can-ibus"
  • Remember to replace the nanofluid every three years or 36,000 minutes.
  • ...future chips to be bigger and consume more electricity, which in turn shall allow them to support more junk instruction sets.

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