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Handhelds Businesses OS X Operating Systems Apple Hardware

PalmSource Drops Mac Synchronization in Cobalt 333

Gear_Media writes "Originally posted at PalmInfocenter: 'In a surprise announcement at the developer conference, PalmSource revealed that Palm OS Cobalt will no longer offer synchronization with the Mac. This marks a departure as previous versions of the Palm OS had long shipped with Mac compatible hotsync software.' Smart move? I think not."
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PalmSource Drops Mac Synchronization in Cobalt

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  • never mind (Score:2, Funny)

    by category9 ( 521982 )
    i have something else my palm is in sync with ;)
    • "i have something else my palm is in sync with ;)"

      So, to complete your analogy, would the Mac be a metaphor for women?
  • Not necessarily (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Bob Zer Fish ( 568540 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:49PM (#8263467) Homepage
    This could be a good idea for them, because I bet Apple step in! (or someoene else) Outsourcing anyone!?!
    • by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <splisken06NO@SPAMemail.com> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:07PM (#8263774)
      According to the article (I know, this is /., but I couldn't help myself):

      "Fortunately, a third party company, Mark/Space [markspace.com], has pledged to make a version of their Missing Sync client for Cobalt. It will be released later this year in anticipation of the first Palm OS Cobalt devices. Missing Sync for Cobalt will enable users to connect and synchronize information between Palm OS Cobalt devices and Macs running Mac OS X via USB, network, WiFi or Bluetooth."

      • by exhilaration ( 587191 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:11PM (#8263825)
        I have to wonder whether anyone would be stupid enough to buy Palm-based hardware knowing that they would be spending additional money to buy sync software.

        I think consumers have gotten used to getting free sync software. Unless a device has passed its EOL, I just don't see anyone paying for drivers or sync software.

      • by Xibby ( 232218 ) <zibby+slashdot@ringworld.org> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:26PM (#8264006) Homepage Journal
        Seems like a marginaly smart decision on Palms part. Palm is probally loosing money developing software for Mac, where Mark/Space can turn a profit as they are a smaller company with lower rent, smaller staff, etc. Palm could probally license Mark/Space's software to distribute with Palm devices for less money than it would cost to develop it in house. Of course that would require lawyers.

        I wouldn't be suprised if Apple itself or 3rd party OSS developers make conduits for iSync too.
      • Actually, the real reason Palm is dropping the HotSync client is that Apple wrote their own. It's called iSync and it ships with OSX...Apple wrote it so that their integrated address book and scheduling software could communicate with palms and smartphones.

        If you use iCal, you have to use iSync, because the HotSync client doesn't know much about the advanced features of the address book. iSync supports all the other crap you need to have to use a plam machine, too.

        So Apple's basically doing the work anyway...why should palm bother rewriting their software when apple users already have a free app that does what HotSync does, but is more tailored to their needs?
        • by nat5an ( 558057 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:43PM (#8264159) Homepage
          Only problem is that iSync only syncs the calendar and address book entries. I rely on Palm Desktop on my Mac to sync memos, pictures (I have the zire 71 with the crappy digital camera), doodles, etc. Unless Apple plans to provide a full palm desktop replacement, I think Palm's leaving apple users twisting in the wind here.
        • by Anonymous Coward
          Yes and no. Apple does give iSync away for free, it does offer conduits for their address and calendar apps, BUT, to sync your Palm OS PDA to your Mac using iSync, you MUST have HotSync Manager installed. The only way to get HotSync Manager installed is to install Palm Desktop.

          iSync is in the same boat - it will not support the Cobalt devices as it relies on the very application that PalmSource is not doing any further Mac development on.

          Palm Desktop and HotSync Manager are two different applications. Thi
        • iSync is slow... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by teridon ( 139550 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @07:21PM (#8264569) Homepage
          I try new versions of iSync every time Apple releases them. And yet iSync still takes 5-10 times longer to sync then the Palm HotSync software. This sucks because I *want* to use iCal, but I can't if I have to spend 5 minutes syncing (instead of 30 seconds).
  • Hmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mieckowski ( 741243 ) <mieckowski@@@berkeley...edu> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:49PM (#8263468)
    Maybe its time for apple to ressurect the Newton?
  • by webslacker ( 15723 )
    As far as I know, Mac OSX comes with iSync which does this anyways.

    They might be relying on Apple to take care of the software now. They have Address, iSync, Cal and other stuff that syncs with the Palm, so they probably figured, why not let Apple worry about maintaining this stuff instead?
    • by onebuttonmouse ( 733011 ) <obm@stocksy.co.uk> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:52PM (#8263515) Homepage
      iSync requires Palm's 'Palm Desktop' software to be installed before it can sync with PalmOS devices
      • by Golias ( 176380 )
        Yea, but now it probably won't. The worst thing about Palm-for-Mac sync software is that it breaks iSync.
      • by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <`moc.liamtoh' `ta' `noraaver'> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:07PM (#8263778) Homepage
        Je-zus, it's good someone said this. I don't know how many posts were at OSnews.com saying "pfft- I already have iSync! Palm Desktop blows!" Blatantly ignoring the fact that if you don't install Palm Desktop, you're SOL as far as syncing your Palm with your Mac.

        A reply mentions that you "probably" won't need the palm desktop any longer- but have we heard anything about this? Is Apple going to buy out Mark/Space's Missing Sync? Not likely. What is more likely is that Palm users on the Mac will have to *buy* a copy of Missing Sync just to sync their Palm OS devices with their Macs... Bleh.
        • I don't know if I agree with you about this.. I'm sure for an appropriate number of million bucks that Apple could buy Mark/Space, and I don't think it's entirely out of the question that they would too. It would fit in with iSync quite nicely.
      • by OECD ( 639690 )

        Hmmmm... Palm Desktop was built from the code for Claris Organizer. I wonder if Apple can reinvent that wheel, or buy back PD from Palm?

        Palm Desktop is great, btw. I used it (it's a free D/L [palmone.com]) for many months before I even bought a Palm.

    • by stickyc ( 38756 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:12PM (#8263852) Homepage
      A quick overview of Palm syncing...

      Syncing requires two components, HotSync itself and conduit(s).
      HotSync handles the communication between the host machine and the Palm handheld. This includes handshaking, scheduling conduit activation, data transfer between the device and conduits, error checking, and logging.
      The Conduits are what handles the data once it's on the host machine, chosing which records need to be updated on the host and client, backing up data, etc.

      iSync's interaction with the Palm is as a conduit only. It still requires HotSync to communicate with a device. HotSync is developed by PalmSource and is provided as part of the Palm Desktop distribution.

      There is an open source version of HotSync out there, I wouldn't think it would take too much effort to port it over to OS-X and adapt it to whatever changes Palm is making to the new syncronization process.

  • Stupid palm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by koody ( 575863 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:50PM (#8263480)
    With Mac OS X getting stronger support from both nerds and end users and palm losing in its own niche, not supporting a platform with an existing userbase is pretty moronic.
    • Re:Stupid palm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nehril ( 115874 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:12PM (#8263850)
      Palm probably started designing their new system around .Net, activex, ms access/outlook, visual studio and other technologies that nail them to Microsoft. By the time somebody remembered to ask about Mac support, it was probably impossible without porting giant chunks of Windows along with it.

      Cross platform stuff really needs careful design up front, the right choice in widget sets/dev tools/libraries WILL make the difference. Just ask the Neverwinter Nights folks, who even chose the wrong *installer file* format and got hosed at the end.

      • Re:Stupid palm (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ncc74656 ( 45571 ) * <scott@alfter.us> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:49PM (#8264216) Homepage Journal
        Palm probably started designing their new system around .Net, activex, ms access/outlook, visual studio and other technologies that nail them to Microsoft.

        Given that their developer tools appear to be migrating away from CodeWarrior and toward Eclipse/gcc/etc. (not Visual Studio), that doesn't seem likely. (Go here [palmsource.com] and scan down to "PalmSource Offers New Software Development Tools" for more info. They don't yet have it available for download, though, or I would've already snagged it.)

    • Re:Stupid palm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by w42w42 ( 538630 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:45PM (#8264183)
      Especially when the alternative user base is controlled by your largest competitor.
    • Re:Stupid palm (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kalidasa ( 577403 ) * on Thursday February 12, 2004 @08:52PM (#8265386) Journal
      Given the Palm platform's pretty shaky hold on market share right now, I don't think they can afford to drop even a single-digit percentage of their market. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
    • Re:Stupid palm (Score:4, Informative)

      by luisdom ( 560067 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @04:24AM (#8267755)
      Update from the article:

      PalmSource Cheif Competitve Officer, Michael Mace, has issued a statement direcct from PalmSource regarding the issue in the article comments, "PalmSource is fortunate to have a great Palm OS developer community who provide solutions for Macintosh compatibility today. Palm OS provides an open and flexible architecture and allows its licensees to decide whether to ship a Mac compatibility solution with their Palm Powered device. (One such solution is provided by Mark/Space.) We are continuing our efforts with Apple to provide compatibility between Palm OS and Macintosh."

      Let's see where this goes...
  • isync (Score:5, Insightful)

    by klyX ( 116477 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:51PM (#8263487)
    maybe palmsource knows something we dont re: isync?
    • Re:isync (Score:3, Interesting)

      by JHromadka ( 88188 )
      Apple could make iSync work without needing HotSync, but what about 3rd party conduits like Desktop2Go? AddressBook and Calendar aren't the only games in town.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:51PM (#8263489)
    Who cares about 3% less profit, when the CEO's are ranking in millions for running their company into the ground.
    • by oscast ( 653817 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:59PM (#8263653) Homepage
      you're incorrectly intertwining market share with install base. The problem with that is that market share is a figure that relates directly to quarterly or yearly sales figures (something that translate well to Linux and OS X because these platforms tend to outlive their usefullness as compared to their Windows competition this compelling individuals to keep aging hardware longer and not make another sale) Linux has it even wose than OS X, because Linux is distributed for free, so in most cases... it wont translate to a "sale" Think of it like this... if a single Windows user buys 4 computers in 4 years and a Linux or OSX user buys 1 computer in that same time period, the way "marketshare" works is that Windows would have the lions share of the market while Linux and OSX users would be religated to a fraction of that figure EVEN THOUGH THE SAME NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WOULD BE USING THE COMPUTER. If the *Install Base* term were used instead, each platform would occupy the same number of users. Unfortunately, this misappropriation of words has caused the entire population to believe market share translates to install base. This must change. The alternative OS community must work in unison to break this trend by correctly using the appropriate term to describe one or the other.
      • And you're incorrectly intertwining a slightly trollish comment with a funny (and appropriate) joke.
      • If we assume every Mac sold, 1999-2003, is part of the current Mac installed base (and given Mac sales over time, that's actually more generous than "average Mac is used five years") that's 17,206,000 machines.

        If we assume that the total non-Mac installed base is merely equal to the number of PCs sold in 2003 (using the Gartner preliminary estimate), then there are roughly 170 million non-Mac machines in the world today.

        So even if we assume average Mac users buy a computer every five years and the average
  • Newton II? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by merikus ( 722704 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:51PM (#8263505)
    I wonder if this stems from any concern at Palm that Apple might come out with an Apple-branded PDA.

    On one hand, I think that is unlikely because, unlike the MP3 player, the PDA market is swamped and Apple can't make that much of a splash.

    On the other hand, Apple has relentlessly marginalized 3rd-party developers in the past few years. That's not necessarily a bad thing (many of the iApps are great products), but I can see other 3rd-party developers getting scared.

    However, all in all, I think Palm is just being stupid.
    • Re:Newton II? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <`moc.liamtoh' `ta' `noraaver'> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:10PM (#8263813) Homepage
      If the past is any indication, if Apple releases a PDA, it will likely run the PalmOS- not the NewtonOS. There has been announcements of joint Palm + Apple projects in the past, though nothing became of them.

      I just don't see Apple putting all that money into reinventing, modernizing and re-doing the NewtonOS. Far more likely is that they'd take something and OEM it- like Dell, Gateway and others have done with PocketPC and Sony and others with the PalmOS.

      Don't get me wrong- I only just switched away from the Newton OS to Windows CE a year ago, with some experiments in between. The Newton rules all in most respects, still more useful than most Palm or PocketPC devices today as a true "assistant" and a computer.
    • the PDA market is swamped and Apple can't make that much of a splash.

      Don't count them out. All they have to do is make it LOOK really cool(but Malibu Stacy has a new hat...). They also might be developing some cool voice controlled PDA that would work while standing next to a shuttle launch. Or how 'bout a heads up display? :-)
    • Re:Newton II? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by 59Bassman ( 749855 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:23PM (#8263978) Journal
      MP3 player market not swamped? No flame intended but when the iPod came out I seem to recall quite a few MP3 devices, many of which seemed to be doing very well. When I first heard that Apple was going to come out with one, I figured it would flop due to market saturation.

      What Apple did was figure out how to do it really, really well. They found a reason that people would pay more money for their product. Wasn't the iPod the first very-large-storage MP3 device available? I'd expect them to do the same with a PDA - possibly attempting to re-think the entire device.

      I've used Palm-type devices for several years now, and tried CE for a while. All of them have been a series of compromises. Palm is shackled with needing helper apps to interface with MS Office stuff, plus (at least on the models I've owned) has really bad screen resolutions. CE also had tradeoffs, which explains why I only owned my Toshiba for 48 hours. Maybe Apple will do a take-no-prisoners PDA?

      Interesting development, regardless.

      • Re:Newton II? (Score:3, Informative)

        by Raptor CK ( 10482 )
        The iPod wasn't the first very-large-storage MP3 device, but it was the first to not suck.

        The Creative Nomad beat it to market, but even with gobs more space than the 5GB first-gen iPod, it was also much larger, less reliable, slower to start, and painfully slow to load up that first time. The iPod, by comparison, was smaller, faster, and easier to use.

        In the PDA market, though, it's a lot trickier. Apple took the MP3 player and boiled it down to what they thought users wanted: a portable jukebox that
  • by EmbeddedJanitor ( 597831 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:51PM (#8263506)
    So long as they publish th protocols then things are OK. Someone who cares can write/distribute sych tools.

    I can understand their approach though. If they release their own sync software they end up with a bunch of extra tech support calls.

    • So long as they publish th protocols then things are OK. Someone who cares can write/distribute sych tools.

      But they don't now, so why would they start doing so? Sure, someone can reverse engineer the protocols- and over USB, it's been a bitch for the pilot tools folks- but that's a big investment. Sure, folks have done it- see Mark/Space's Missing Sync. But they want money for their efforts, which isnt' a surprise.
  • Right now there are two main players in the Handheld market: Palm and Microsoft. Most of those who are using a Mac are doing so because they arn't too happy with Microsoft's offerings. That leaves Palm (yeah, there are other companies, but none as strong as Palm). Sure its a pain in the ass to buy 3rd party software but I don't think it will affect them overall.
  • Who needs a palm? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by arashiakari ( 633150 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:53PM (#8263527) Homepage
    My Apple iBook G4 12" w/802.11b/g + Bluetooth is small enough anyway. It's the size of s sheet of paper and it weighs four and a half pounds. Meanwhile, it can burn CDs, play DVDs, and sync with my cell phone.

    If I really cared about sync'ing with a lousy palm I've got Virtual PC on my iBook already.
    • by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <`moc.liamtoh' `ta' `noraaver'> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:13PM (#8263867) Homepage
      But that iBook doesn't fit in your pocket. My primary computer right now is a "PDA" that runs Windows CE. Mind you, this isn't PocketPC but something more. Nor is it PalmOS. I need multitasking- after all, I use it as a computer, not an expensive datebook. But unlike the iBook I gave my girlfriend, I can fit it in my pocket, and even more easily, in my jacket or backpack without adding more than 0.5 kilo/1 lb to my person. 800x480 screen-mmm. Though, I don't have 20 GB of MP3s on it, certainly, nor a library of DVD rips. But I don't do DVD rips, and I have a MP3 cd player for tunes.
  • by zapp ( 201236 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:53PM (#8263532)
    I have been shopping for a PDA for a while, and am pretty set on a PocketPC device,but that's beside the point. It got me thinking though, that there aren't any PDAs that are really FOR Macs. Palm does (or now used to) work with them, but PocketPCs don't I'm sure.

    Are there any PDAs that work well with Mac? Given Apple's success with iPOD, I can't help but think it would be a great move for them to produce an equally-sexy PDA.

  • hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:54PM (#8263551)
    from the palms-are-obsolete-anyway dept.

    Somebody got himself a woman...

  • See subject. I'm awfully curious to find out what kind of a handheld Apple will build. This way, Palm can be sure we find out. And they better hope Apple doesn't make a windows version... not 'cause they'll get beaten necessarily, but because they don't need any added competition.
  • Palm vs. SE P800 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 2.246.1010.78 ( 721713 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:55PM (#8263568)
    Well if Palm doesn't care about how I sync my device with my mac, I surely know that a P800 from Sony Ericsson p.e. does. Smart move indeed, same as in: I'll never look back.
  • by darnok ( 650458 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:56PM (#8263584)
    Given the relative market shares, maybe Apple is going to devote those resources to integrating with Linux instead. Didn't the Linux (desktop) user base slip past the Apple (desktop) user base last year?
  • by schmack ( 32384 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @05:56PM (#8263593)
    Sounds like Apple have synchronizing well and truly covered anyway. So this is probably no great loss. I mean Palm still haven't made it easy for me to have _one_ group of contacts shared between my PDA, cellphone and PC. It's left up to the true integrators such as Apple to do this.

    Hopefully Palm will give Apple lots of support in the future -- and together can build something much more stable and well integrated than any Palm built effort could have produced.
  • by Just Some Guy ( 3352 ) <kirk+slashdot@strauser.com> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:00PM (#8263659) Homepage Journal
    I've owned and used a Palm Pilot Pro, a Palm III, a Palm IIIxe, and most recently a Palm m130.

    I've also owned and used various DayRunner paper organizers.

    One of these will be usable with my wife's iMac and can hold a checkbook, paper receipts, and business cards. The other plays solitaire.

    Goodbye, Palm - it's been fun.

  • Why not just use Fink to install something OpenSource that can sync w/ a Palm?
    Of course I don't know because Fink bails on me every time I use it and trying to to download the Apple Developer tools from connect.apple.com hasn't worked since I started trying to Saturday. Used Safari, FireFox, and Mozilla and none of them work. Any ideas?
  • Just to clarify (Score:5, Informative)

    by gozar ( 39392 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:01PM (#8263696) Homepage

    Without Hotsync Manager, iSync does not work. So unless you want to spend more money, you will not be able to sync the newest palms with your Mac.

    That's a shame because at my school district we were looking at rolling out a Palm program to help teachers stay organized. Now that Palm made this decision, I don't know what we're going to do.

    I've already sent them feedback, but I'm not holding my breath waiting on a reply.

  • USB became popular because Apple pushed it. Home video editing became popular after Apple worked with it and made it easy. By Palm ignoring a trend setting platform it runs the risk of writing itself out of history. Just as in luxury cars the high end features eventually trickle down to every day models. Palm will be lost. Now the funny thing to happen would be Microsoft making their Pocket PC fully syncable and compatible with Mac Office products and Mac OS.
  • by seichert ( 8292 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:05PM (#8263749)
    Mark/Space, the makers of the Missing Sync for Mac OS, will fill the void. Check out their website to read all about it: http://www.markspace.com/cobalt.html [markspace.com]
  • Sun trademark? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by fishbowl ( 7759 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:06PM (#8263760)
    If Sun raises a trademark infringement stink over the name "Cobalt", I won't blame them a bit. This is the first situation I've seen in a very long time where I could honestly state that a reasonable person could be confused over the use of the trademark. This is NOTHING like Linux laundry detergent or McDonald's Sheet Metal Fabricators.

    This is more like, a computer maker creates an OS and calls it Linux, or a guy named Smith opens a restaurant called McDonald's.

  • no more palm for me (Score:2, Informative)

    by dewdrops ( 79519 )

    This is a dealbreaker for me. I was actually about to upgrade my Palm M505 to something newer/fancier, but if it doesn't work my iBook, that's it.

    It also makes you wonder about the health of Palm as a company; are the Windows CE devices finally starting to take over the market and push Palm out ?
  • by Frobozz0 ( 247160 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:16PM (#8263900)
    Aside from the fact that Apple and other third party entities do a MUCH better job a syncing that Palm does on it's own hardware, I think this is a strange decision. In fact, this might be one of the few "no longer supporting Mac" statements I've heard in almost two years.

    If anything, most companies are jumping into the ring on Mac support because of OS X being so versatile. Seems strange, but like I said-- you'll still be able to sync your Palm pilot, just not with their software.

    If anything, it's bad PR and just another reason to ask yourself why you really need a PDA anymore. I believe a good cell phone with iSync would take care of it.
  • by wareadams ( 185080 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:20PM (#8263940)
    One thing to think about is that it's not like PalmSource has been all that good at keeping Mac sync up to speed with Windows in the past.

    The first version of Palm Desktop for Mac was terrible. Then they bought Claris Organizer when Apple no longer needed it after killing the Newton and de-emphasizing Claris products other than FMPro. At that point things were OK, but really Palm just picked up Claris Organizer for cheap. It wasn't a real commitment on their part.

    From then until OS X they really did nothing for the Mac desktop. Then they came out with an OS X version, but no new features (no network sync, no WiFi sync, etc...). Now they've given up altogether.

    Mark/Space makes pretty good stuff so far, and their support has been very good. There's some question of whether or not they can handle the scale, but I'm sure they'll make a greater effort at pushing the Mac 'Palm' desktop forward than PalmSource has. In fact their first release will have more improvements than PalmSource has given us in years (WiFi sync, Ethernet sync).

    The longer term issue is whether or not third party conduit makers stop supporting the Mac because of this move, even though Mark/Space has said they will make a conduit manager that works with everyone's conduits.

    But in terms of development focus on the desktop and conduit manager itself, I'd expect Mark/Space to make more progress than PalmSource ever has.
  • by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:20PM (#8263942) Journal
    PalmSource Drops Mac Synchronization in Cobalt

    Well it's better than dropping it in carbon freeze, I guess. Oh, wait. Different thread.

    What probably happened was that Mac users are probably moving to the free Apple stuff like iCal and iChat and iWhatsis instead of Palm Desktop, and then by extension they'd be required by the userbase demand to make the Palms sync with the iApps. So they said, "Feh... whateva..."

    I would almost wager on Apple putting a Palm sync feature into the next releases of their iApps. At this rate Apple might wind up making all the hardware AND the software for Macs.

    Not that I'd turn my nose up at iBryce. C'mon, Apple. Everyone's grandma wants to do 3D rendering with deep texture editing.

  • I'm betting that Apple is intending to expand iSync so that it covers Cobalt...or, less likely, will announce their own PDA. But I doubt it will come to that--after all, the iPod already works as a low-level PDA anyway.
  • It is interesting that the Treo 300 I bought in December 2003 did not mention Mac support. It syncs just fine. If it did not work, I would have returned it and my wife's new phone. It appears their plan to drop Mac support has been in the works for at least a few months given their box labeling.
  • by steveha ( 103154 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:31PM (#8264052) Homepage
    I see several possibilites here.

    Palm might be counting on third-party software to cover their Mac users, or counting on iSync. In this case, they blew it big-time by not making that clear.

    Or, Palm could have decided that they just don't need any Mac customers, and didn't give much thought to how their existing Mac customers would feel about it. This would be amazingly stupid.

    I don't see any evidence that the second one is true; I'm sure it's the first one. Palm has been pretty good in the past about supporting their Mac customers; why would they suddenly abandon them, just when they are trying to win mindshare for their new Cobalt platform?

    Hmmm, I just checked. Missing Sync costs $40. I'm starting to think "amazingly stupid" again.

    Thinking about this some more, Apple customers are unlikely to embrace PocketPC. Maybe Palm figures those guys will buy Palm PDAs even if Palm doesn't do anything to support them. That's playing with fire, if true. If you drive customers away, it's hard to get them back.

    What Palm ought to do is make sure that Apple has all the data they need to make iSync just work out of the box with all new Palm PDAs. This ought to just mean keeping Apple up to date with some information. Easy, inexpensive. And they ought to brag to all their Mac-using customers that they are doing it!

    And if Palm wants to walk away from their Mac desktop application, they should either gift it to Apple, or open-source it, not just throw it in the bin.

    steveha
  • by wardk ( 3037 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:35PM (#8264099) Journal
    Mac users suprisingly announce they will drop support for Palm
  • by Mike Buddha ( 10734 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @06:46PM (#8264192)
    I know that a lot of Mac users out there see this as some kind of conspiracy, but the truth of the matter is: if Mac Users were a viable market for Palm OS products, Palm OS would enjoy continued support on that platform. PalmOne, and PalmSource, are not run by fools. They're the only company in recent memory to beat Microsoft in direct competition. This decision can not have come as arbitrarily as a lot of the people on this forum speculate. Either there are some serious architecture issues with OS X that drive the cost of developing a software package that is comparable to the one available on Windows to an unprofitable level, or the market for OS X users is just so small, that it doesn't make it worth their while to pursue that segment. Considering that software for the Mac has been released for previous versions of Palm OS, I'd tend to believe that the prior is the actual reason.

    I suppose there is a third option, and that is that Palm is aware of some new product that Apple is preparing and doesn't wish to commit resources to the development of a software package that may be trumped by some new Apple product. This doesn't make that much sense, in that Palm was able to wipe the floors with Wince, developed in house by MS. In that situation Palm couldn't give up on such a huge market segment and remain in business. With Apple, they could certainly give up on such a small segment without much concern. Apple has done so much with its branding that there is a risk that even if Palm could create a better product for the Apple market, it might not matter in the minds of Apple users.
    • Or it could be that supporting all the various flavors of Windows has eaten up their developer time. I sometimes think MS purposefully makes Win32 a PITA because they know developers have to support it, and want to ensure that those developers won't have the money or energy left to support anything else.
      • I sometimes think MS purposefully makes Win32 a PITA because they know developers have to support it,

        For all of its faults, the one thing that MS has done correctly, is come out with easy to use development tools for its OS. Supporting Windows is a breeze, from a developers point of view. The MFC, DirectX, Visual Studio all are top class tools for development. The code isn't optimal, but it's easy to put together.

        I really don't think that this is a realistic reason for PalmSource to drop support for Mac.
        • by jdhouse4 ( 14603 ) * on Thursday February 12, 2004 @10:17PM (#8266029) Homepage
          I am an new-to-the-game Apple developer. MS tools have little on XCode and IB. MS doesn't have anything like the Controller Layer which negates the need for glue code to hook a UI and model code. In an app we developed for Win and X, the X version took less than a third, that's right 1/3, of the time the Win version did. So please, enough of the urban legend that MS has great developer tools.

          Apple may have had a bad history in the past for supporting developers. That cannot be said today.

  • by Qweezle ( 681365 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @07:07PM (#8264419) Journal
    Very rarely do you see Mac users toting non-Palm OS handhelds, thanks to new synchronization from such companies as mark|space now there are ways to seamlessly hook up with a Pocket PC or WinCE device....

    Palm's products have a huge base of Mac users. I don't know what the hell they are doing with this, but it has to be one of the stupidest business decisions(SCO aside) that I've ever seen in my life.

    My Windows XP using friend called me 3 times before I got his call, and he was urgent to tell me as I entered the supermarket about this...I tried to restrain my foul language in such a public place. He couldn't believe they are doing this either.

    Mac users make up about 3% of the total PC market, and more than 3% of Palm users are Mac users, I guarantee you that.

    Apple sells Palm handhelds, for God's sake!

    Don't be surprised if HP(Apple's new partner, they are now bundling iTunes) lends Mac OS X support to their iPaq line somehow, Apple will surely be scrambling to get some handheld native on their system.

    I own some shares of PalmOne, thankfully this is more PalmSource...but get ready for a dive, Palm, you dumbasses.
  • by chasman ( 132781 ) <chas,hoard&4moreinfo,com> on Thursday February 12, 2004 @07:54PM (#8264867) Homepage
    You guys are putting way too much thought into this - it just ain't that hard. Palm screwed up. Didn't want to deal with Apple on their terms, and Steve Jobs and Bill Gates decided to hurt Palm, to their mutual best interests.

    1. Apple is working on a PDA product of their own based on OSX, Palm got wind of it and decided to jump before they were pushed. Newton II? Odds are against it, but how much more work to add a bigger, 65K color screen to an iPod and brush off Inkwell, which is already in the OSX product? Sync with OSX, sync with Outlook, which explains the lack of an Appleworks 'Office' killer and the integration of Entourage to be used in the Enterprise. Now that Pocket Windows is in cars and smartphones, Gates is willing to cede some marketshare to Apple, whom he thinks he can control better than Palm.

    2. The number of takers for Palm's Cobalt is so low that they can't afford the engineers to do the Mac sync. Remember, if you make PDAs like a Clie or other product, you probably purchased a license for Version 5 of Palm OS. If nobody is buying Cobalt (Version 6) you have to make cuts somewhere, and they are making it here. They can easily add it back in if enough Cobalt licensees ask for it.

    Now - do a Google check. You will find that none of the usual suspects has agreed to build a new PDA using Cobalt - everything being announced is based on the current Version 5. Palm is in deep doodoo - they haven't sold any Cobalt licenses and have to trim back. Time to sell the Palm stock?
  • jpilot (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Yeechang Lee ( 3429 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @08:01PM (#8264921)
    Jpilot is the answer. Not only is it a near-perfect replacement for the Palm Desktop, thanks to the pilot-link backend it can do things the latter can't, including synching over Wi-Fi.
  • palm and mac os X (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stimpy1306 ( 678358 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @08:09PM (#8264992)
    Ok some of you don't use the palm..great..however understand they in some segments of the business world they are MANDATORY... As a 3rd year medical student I can tell you that every serious doctor is getting one, pt charting systems are supporting them etc .. they are awsome reference sources. The problems with palms action is not the lack of hot sync as I fully expect isync to fill this gap and if not mark space will fill the gap. The problem lies in the many applications on the palm that "sync" with a central DB to update a reference. Apple needs to ensure that palm and pocket PC apps that use this fuctionality have the hooks in OS X that they need to function , without a seperate version of the palm or pocket PC app. This kind of thing KILLS Apples market share. Apple can do what they like on their own turf but they MUST interoperate with 3rd parties SEAMLESSLY, better then windows if they expect to grow. This is a crushing blow which means Apple will have to work hard to overcome. Futhermore dog plus world will cover the fact that palm will not support the mac but no one will cover the fact that isync can fill a significant portion of this void. I love my mac but more Apple needs to realize that they must beat windows when it comes to 3rd party interactivity. Apple could come out with a PDA device BUT 1.)It must be perfectly compatible with palm or pocket PC...no exceptions 2.) when connected to my mac those palm apps must sync and be able to conenct without a single change in the developers code. if either of the above is NOT true then the problems will ALWAYS be blamed on Apple so long as the product functions under windows XP..even if the real problem is with the palm app. Which brings me back to my original point...this is a huge burden for Apple but its the ONLY way to make the device work. The iPod is an excellent example. The ipod has been succesful BECAUSE it works better on BOTH mac and windows esp with itunes....any PDA will have to follow the same path which is significantly harder due to multifunctionality of a PDA i suspect that Steve Jobs problem with PDAs have something to do with these tough issue. I would love to hear from some people who develop for palm about the problems with syncing thru a mac for a Db driven app..(like Epocrates or PEPID) IMHO anyway Andrew
  • by darkstream ( 652288 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @04:09AM (#8267721) Homepage Journal
    From an update attached at the bottom of the linked article (you DO read the articles, don't you?):

    PalmSource Cheif Competitve Officer, Michael Mace, has issued a statement direcct from PalmSource regarding the issue in the article comments, "PalmSource is fortunate to have a great Palm OS developer community who provide solutions for Macintosh compatibility today. Palm OS provides an open and flexible architecture and allows its licensees to decide whether to ship a Mac compatibility solution with their Palm Powered device. (One such solution is provided by Mark/Space.) We are continuing our efforts with Apple to provide compatibility between Palm OS and Macintosh."

    This last statement is the most promising. Assuming it isn't empty spin, further support for Palm devices via iSync seems probable (provided the HotSync manager issue is addressed). I can't imagine Apple will let a core part of their iSync hub disappear. But we have only the above to speculate about. Perhaps Apple will make some sort of announcement. Once again, speculation.

    Still, I feel Palm's decision is a foolish one. I am a Mac user mostly, and when I hear somebody isn't going to support my platform of choice I get angry - feel betrayed - dread the smug comments from my Windoze using associates.. All in all, I am left uninclined to further support that company. For instance, my Clie 710C is getting long in the tooth. I've been eyeing Tungsten PDA's for a few months and was initially excited about the Cobalt announcement. A part of me wants to look elsewhere now just to spite them. Maybe an iSync compatible cellphone might be my next purchase?

    But since I do own a Clie, and already own Missing Sync, I have already gotten used to zero Mac support from the parent company. I trust Mark/Space to fix this problem for future versions of the Palm OS. But other people won't feel the same way. Mac zealots especially. Is it good business to anger even a small percent of your customer base? Shouldn't the "working with Apple" comment have come along with the bad news? Seriously stupid business move, IMO.

    ~Doug!as

  • Death of a great PIM (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ryano ( 2112 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @10:24AM (#8269460) Homepage

    I'm not too worried about the syncing aspect of this, as Apple or other developers will step in to fill this gap. What is sad, however, is the end of development of Claris Organizer/Palm Desktop.

    I've used Palm Desktop continuously since 1998, when it was still Claris Organizer. The application has hardly changed at all in the intervening years, but in my view it remains the most elegant PIM available. It's also remarkably feature-complete for such an old product.

    "Palm Desktop 4.0" brought OS X compatibility and some terminology changes ("Contacts" became "Addresses", "Tasks" became "To dos" etc.), but beyond that it was the same app. It even retained the scripts to open URLs in Cyberdog [cyberdog.org], or create form letters in MacWrite [wikipedia.org].

    Now that the product has been orphaned, I'll probably switch to Entourage, which I find nowhere near as elegant. What are the chances Palm could be convinced to open-source Palm Desktop and allow it to live on?

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