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Finding Holiday Discounts on iPods? 849

jeffy124 asks: "I was hoping to get an Apple iPod for Christmas. Alas, it's too expensive and out of the budget. So I'm forced into purchasing it for myself. Hoping to cash in on a holiday season bargain, I've been keeping my eye on the sales circulars that come in the newspaper. I've seen plenty of discounts for MP3 players of all kinds (Rio's, Dell's new HD-based player, etc), and the iPod has also shown up. Christmas does not yet seem very merry to me. They're always at the regular $299/399/499 price, never at a discount of any sort. You read that right, it's 'for sale' at the *regular* price. Stores guilty of this include Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, and CompUSA. Why do stores do this? How often? And does anyone know why Apple has been singled out while their competition has gotten their products discounted? Anyone know who *is* granting discounts on iPods this holiday season?"

"The other day came in the mail a 10% off coupon for various items at Best Buy, including 'MP3 Players' as indicated on the front of slip. Hoping this was how I was gonna get that discount, I set aside time this weekend to drive to Delaware in order to skip out on my local state sales tax too. I turned the coupon over, and in the legal disclaimer was the phrase 'Excludes Apple iPod Players.' Needless to say, a Merry Christmas is still aways off."

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Finding Holiday Discounts on iPods?

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  • Ebay? (Score:5, Informative)

    by aero6dof ( 415422 ) <> on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:13PM (#7663543) Homepage
    ;) of course, you may find yourself needing to replace a battery.
  • Rebates (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:13PM (#7663555)
    You can usually get a rebate if you purchase one with other Apple products. The only way that I was able to afford one with with a $100 rebate when a friend purchased an iBook.
  • by BortQ ( 468164 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:14PM (#7663557) Homepage Journal
    Those familiar with Apple products will tell you that discounts are few and far between. I believe it has to do with Apple's unique relationship with distributors. Stores don't have as much leeway to discount Apple stuff as they do with other brands.

    The only time you will find Apple products for sale is when Apple passes along end-of-life discounts. (i.e. right before the new model comes out)

  • by bconway ( 63464 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:14PM (#7663567) Homepage
    I recently upgraded from my iPod to the Rio Karma, and it is THE iPod killer. More reviews can be found here: article [].
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:14PM (#7663571)
    Ogg vorbis support is just too important to me to look at a iPod. Rio Karma 20 can be had for about $270.00 online and the Karma 40 should be out shortly. I've been waiting for years for a Ogg portable. At last they are starting to appear!
  • What about a refurb? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Kranium ( 211344 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:15PM (#7663585)
    Have you considered a refurb unit? Checkout the Apple Store [] and look for the big red "SAVE" tag on the left. I used a refurbished iBook for quite a while and it never gave me any trouble..
  • resellers are forced (Score:5, Informative)

    by sublime ( 38124 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:15PM (#7663586)
    I used to work for Apple, and I know first hand that Apple forces resellers to their pricing structure.. You won't find any apple products for less than they sell for at the apple store.
  • Why not a Rio Karma? (Score:3, Informative)

    by jkeyes ( 243984 ) * on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:16PM (#7663592) Journal
    You can find them for about here [] for $289 and there's a fun $20 rebate available also. So you can get it for $269 AR and there is also free shipping. So it's below the iPod it's 20 GB AND it supports Ogg and FLAC. It also has unofficial support for Linux so you lose the apple 'coolness' but your pocketbook and open source will thank you!
  • by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:16PM (#7663597)
    Why do stores do this? How often? And does anyone know why Apple has been singled out while their competition has gotten their products discounted?

    Because Apple does not allow you to sell Apple products below the pricing offered by Apple themselves.

    Apple does, however, let you bundle things- so your best bet is to look for the best bundle(free case etc). Smalldog and MacConnection are among several catalog companies who regularly do these deals, because it's the only way to be competitive(and not a terribly good one, either.)

    Do get a case; mine was scratched all over within a half week, and I was excruciatingly careful with it. Also, DO get an extended warranty, and DON'T GET IT FROM APPLE, it's shorter and MORE expensive than Best Buy's(for example.)

    FYI- don't bother looking for an iTrip. I placed my order two months ago with Griffin and they have yet to ship me mine. It's getting cancelled tomorrow, I'm fed up of waiting, and I hear the FM adapters all suck anyway.

  • Me too (Score:3, Informative)

    by slashdoter ( 151641 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:17PM (#7663611) Homepage
    I ran into the exact same problem, it looks like Apple is doing thier best to control the price while they think they are on top. In other words just cashing in as long as they can. In the end I bought a dell DJ for my brother, it's the same in almost every regard ( cept geek value, and it doesn't matter to him he's high on jock value) except it's price (lower at dell) and it's battery life (twice as long). In the end Dell won out and it's already here.

    If you don't like apple's game do as I did, don't play it.

  • by kwerle ( 39371 ) <> on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:17PM (#7663614) Homepage Journal
    ...They're always at the regular $299/399/499 price...

    The other day came in the mail a 10% off coupon for various items at Best Buy, including 'MP3 Players' .. 'Excludes Apple iPod Players.' Needless to say, a Merry Christmas is still aways off.

    Looks like "still a ways off" is $29.90 .

    Finally: WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/70702/wo/Lh7my7TA0KCr3f9EhEZxWPiry53 /,37

    (special deals page):
    Refurb iPod 10GB (Mac & Windows) Dock not included: $229.

    You didn't look very hard, did you?
  • Go to DealMac (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:18PM (#7663630)
    Go to [] and search for "ipod". There are deals to be had on old models, refurbs, used, and open box ipods. On brand-spankin' new ones, you'll be lucky to get $10 off.
  • - - redundant - - (Score:5, Informative)

    by jafac ( 1449 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:19PM (#7663646) Homepage
    It's called Minimum Advertised Price.

    Apple sets it. You can't re-sell Apple products below this set level. Nobody can.
    Yes, Apple has been sued for this. (not successfully IIRC).
    In fact, Apple HAS successfully sued resellers for selling under MAP. They put some of them out of business - they were called "Grey-market" MACs, they were bought overseas, and sold into the US market. (some people ended up frying the power supplies because they were set to 240 instead of 120).

    Other industries have also been sued for MAP, and gotten their asses handed to them. But since Apple is *NOT* a monopoly, they can get away with it. Don't like it? Buy a competitor's product.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:20PM (#7663668)
    The parent got modded up as flamebait, but the statement is in fact true. There IS Apple price fixing for it's authorized resellers.

    I work at an Apple Authorized Reseller in Los Angeles, and Apple has made it pretty clear that if we drop the price by more than $50, we aren't going to be an authorized reseller much longer.

    Personally, I think it's terrible, because there is quite a profit made on Apple hardware by us, particularly G5 desktop systems, and iPods.

    Basically, we could knock a good 74-100$ off the iPod without losing money. And I think if we did such a thing, we'd get a pretty healthy customer base very quickly.
  • by fatwreckfan ( 322865 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:23PM (#7663694)
    If you're worried about price, why not look at other cheaper options? I have a Creative Zen [] which was much cheaper than an iPod, with considerably more storage. Also, the iRiver iHP-120 [] looks amazing. Check around for reviews, and you'll find that both of these products are held in high regard. Don't fall for the Apple hype!
  • by Finque ( 653377 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:24PM (#7663702)
    Actually, Apple offered the battery refurbishing plan a week before he publicized his findings. They probably planned to offer this deal all along anyway, but were waiting until the minimum battery lifespan had been reached.

    In response to your question though, I have not used the plan, although I have spoken to an Apple Genius at the local Apple Store about it, and it sounds like a deal to me.
  • Re:Ebay? (Score:3, Informative)

    by deacent ( 32502 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:24PM (#7663703)
    And don't forget DealMac []. They have a Dec 5 listing for MacResQ [] for a refurb 10GB for $199.
  • by msimm ( 580077 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:24PM (#7663710) Homepage
    If your looking at getting the best price possible you'd do well to wait until the end of the busiest buying season of the year.
  • by PoitNarf ( 160194 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:25PM (#7663718)
    The Rio Karma was recently featured on /. here []. I also found a very good review of the Karma on IGN []. All of that was enough to convince me to purchase one. Why go for the iPod if you can't get a good price on it anywhere? There's plenty of worthy competition now.
  • Re:Blame Apple (Score:2, Informative)

    by asynchronous13 ( 615600 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:26PM (#7663729)
    In theory, it is illegal for a manufacturer to dictate the price that a store sells an item. For example, Best Buy could choose to sell iPods at a loss just to get more people to the store and there's nothing that Apple can legally do about it. The reality is, some manufacturers do dictate the prices and if a seller doesn't conform then they no longer recieve the product (oh sorry, we're all out of stock....)

    Rollerblade was well known for similar behavior. Even though it is technically illegal, its nearly impossible to police.
  • Ummm... 10% off... (Score:2, Informative)

    by skribble ( 98873 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:27PM (#7663740) Homepage

    Dude... Apple was all over the place advertising that they were discounting iPods and accessories by 10% off for one day only (the day after Thanksgiving I think). This was originally for brick and mortar stores, but they extended it to their online store as well

    Too bad you missed it I guess... I picked up an iTrip for my iPod at the discount. (BTW iTrips suck bad... it never worked right... I took it apart and half the wires weren't soldered in correctly... I resoldered it and it still doesn't work as good as those cheapy Belkin FM Transmitters).

  • by RafeDawg ( 138303 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:29PM (#7663764)
    On Amazon, they have them for 15-25 bucks cheaper than the standard price, but to see the price you need to add one to your shopping cart. The obvious explanation is that they're legally prevented from advertising the discounted price.

    Either that or they're hoping to cash in on dumb hipster-wannabes who forget to remove it from their cart.
  • Re:Just wait... (Score:5, Informative)

    by rworne ( 538610 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:31PM (#7663784) Homepage
    Then buy it via Apple or the Apple store. They offer a 14-day price protection policy for just this very reason.

    BB, CC and their ilk will beat prices or match them. I have never had a problem getting them to match a price up to 30 days from the purchase date.

  • Re:Price Limits (Score:5, Informative)

    by DrSbaitso ( 93553 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:31PM (#7663785)
    Sure, but because Apple doesn't have a monopoly on MP3 players, it's legal. If apple contacted all the other MP3 player manufacturers, and they agreed (in a smoke-filled room, no less) to fix the price of all MP3 players everywhere, THAT would be illegal.

    This is the difference between vertical restrictions on price (i.e. Apple the manufacturer, and downstream retailers) and horizontal restrictions (all oil-producing companies and the price of oil).

    This concludes the daily antitrust lesson :)
  • by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:33PM (#7663812)
    Apple hardware prices are damned-near set in stone. This is because, unlike most manufacturers, Apple does not head out looking for the best price on manufacturing, design, support, etc.. Apple picks better business partners, who pay higher wages to employees. So to keep profit margins high, Apple locks its prices pretty high.

    Also, don't forget that Apple has its own retail and online stores, because very few retailers have ever done a good job at selling Apple hardware. Keeping those stores profitable is key to keeping the company aflot. The last thing Apple wants is for everyone with an Apple store and a Best Buy near home to go get Apple hardware at Best Buy at a discount.
  • by spotter ( 5662 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:34PM (#7663813)
    Dell has discounts in their S&P store all the time. Dell sells IPods. 2+2 = 4

    Dell had a 20% off all purchases in their home store coupon this past summer, so I was able to get my 30GB ipod for $400 w/ no tax ($500 * .8). If the coupon is only good at the small business store, then you'll most likely have to pay sales tax (small possibility at home store as well)

  • by Ephemeriis ( 315124 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:35PM (#7663834)
    Alright, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut... But I work retail (at EB) and this has always been an annoyance - especially over the holidays.

    On sale means that items are being sold...for example, "On sale now!" means that the product is currently available in stores for your purchase. Not necessarily that it is available at a special, lower price.

    Yes, I realize that "on sale" can also mean that you've got a new, temporarily lower price...but it doesn't have to.

    We get signs up all the time for new games and products that say "on sale now", and then people get upset when we're charging the same price as our competitors.

  • by banks ( 205655 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:36PM (#7663843) Homepage
    At the risk of being modded redundant, a more indepth explanation of this phenomenon:

    What you are seeing is an example of "price control." Price control is a relatively common practice, especially for companies that create higher-end products and have limited (or no) direct-to-customer distribution. Essentially, Apple has the ultimate discretion as to which retailers it will sell iPods too. In order to qualify to carry an iPod, that retailer, be it Best Buy, Circuit City, or any other, must enter into a binding agreement with Apple as to the pricing of the unit. Under that agreement, discounting of the units is generally either completely disallowed, or allowed only with manufacturer approval. Thus, the Best Buys and Circuit City stores HAVE to sell the iPod at whatever price Apple tells them to.

    Where it starts to get shady is when a retailer that hasn't signed a price control agreement with the manufacturer gets their hands on the price controlled units, and starts selling them at a price below the manufacturer's price point. This generally happens when a retailer that has an agreement with the manufacturer unloads some overstock or demo units, when a retailer goes bankrupt, or when a shipment "falls off of a truck." Many manufacturers that use price controls get very, very unhappy when this happens. Most price controlling manufacturers will cut off sales of product to retailers that sell overstock to discounters. This can lead to shady, under-the-table dealing, units with serial numbers ground off so the manufacturer can't trace who sold it to whom, and general malaise. Most manufacturers won't honor the warranties on items purchase through third-party discounters.

    If you think Apple's price controls are nasty, take a look at the high-end watch world. Companies like Rolex won't even allow retailers to advertise the prices of their watches AT ALL. Take a look at a jeweler's ad in the newspaper for Rolexes- they'll always say something to the effect of "call or visit for pricing." Watch companies are also well known for forbidding internet sales. And they put out propaganda to the effect that all watches sold by discounters are counterfeit.

    It's the manufacturer's world. We're just here to consume.

  • Re:Blame Apple (Score:3, Informative)

    by Leto2 ( 113578 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:37PM (#7663855) Homepage
    Bose does the same thing, no matter where you buy your noise-reduction (QuietComfort) headphones, they're always, always $299.
  • by Edarotag ( 624029 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:38PM (#7663870)
    I am planning on buying a 40 gig 3rd gen ipod tomorrow, and they are priced at 479 at my school. You may want to goto a university in your area and see what they are selling at in the bookstore. Most of the time you don't need a student id either. Might save you a little money, and no shipping
  • Refurbs (Score:3, Informative)

    by blackmonday ( 607916 ) * on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:39PM (#7663886) Homepage
    Apple sells refurbs on their "special deals" section of the site. They are discounted, but come in plain packaging, not the cool box you get on a new one. Didn't matter to me.

    I bought a 10gb iPod refurbed for 249 a while ago. The unit was not cosmetically refurbished. There were scratches and dings on it. I had to return it once for further repair. Still, I saved a few bucks and now the unit is OK.

    Just know that a refurb may not be a walk in the park, and if it's a gift for someone else, they may get a very used-looking one.
  • by ichandarin ( 713953 ) <> on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:39PM (#7663888)
    The web site [] keeps track of the best prices for Apple-related products, including ipods. Right now, none iPod of the deals listed are especially great (eg they list [] the 10 GB iPod for $229.00 from the Apple Store), but there should be updates soon.
  • Apple Discounts (Score:3, Informative)

    by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:42PM (#7663912) Journal
    Here you go:

    1. Education Discounts - Find a kid or a teacher.
    2. Apple Consultants Network -
    3. Apple Employees - that's some good action if you can get the hookup. I'd rather not say much about that for fear of an Apple Lawyer shoving a sock down my throat. (It's where I scored my iPod from, and I'm a certified ACN member)
    4. CompUSA employees - they can buy at CompUSA's cost.

    The discounts are out there, you just may have to put yourself in indentured servitude or buy a bunch of beer for someone (especially in the case of the CompUSA employee, Apple employee, or the kid).
  • by ljavelin ( 41345 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:43PM (#7663921)
    I bought a 10gb model at Target.

    I signed up for the Target credit card and got an instant 10% off. That saved me $30 right there.

    Then they gave me a smart card reader, and another 10% off my next credit card purchase, plus another 10% off any on-line purchase.

    Wow. I'm done. It was easy, and to be honest I haven't used their card since. Maybe I'll start using it if my current "favorite" card continues to screw me with their crazy rules.
  • by MORTAR_COMBAT! ( 589963 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:44PM (#7663933)
    Join AudibleListener for 12 months and get an iPod for $100 less []. Naturally you'll spend $14.95 per month on the AudibleListener account for 12 months, but you'll also get one audio magazine, newspaper or radio program plus one audiobook each month. What, you expect something for nothing?

    Oh yeah. Tell 'em sdmb sent you.
  • Re:Price Limits (Score:5, Informative)

    by RyuuzakiTetsuya ( 195424 ) <taiki.cox@net> on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:45PM (#7663945)

    Let's get the facts straight right now. the console gaming industry, on average, does NOT work on the Razor/blades economic system. the GC is sold at a profit, not a loss.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:47PM (#7663963)
    I used to work for an Apple Reseller here in Australia, and I can tell you one of the reasons why we didn't dicount iPods: the profit margin for resellers on Apple hardware products is 8%. We sold something for $2000, we got $160.

    That gives you a bit of room to move on products that sell in the thousands, but on a product that sells in the hundreds, there's not much discounting you can do before you're giving it away with no profit.

    (I'm posting anonymously as I don't wish to leave myself open to any potential legal retaliation)
  • by UpLateDrinkingCoffee ( 605179 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:50PM (#7663993)
    Keep an eye out for Dell's stackable coupons... they often have $35 off $350 and $45 off $450 pretty regularly. Many times, they will have these in addition to a blanket %10 off all peripherals. As of a few months ago, they were not excluding the iPod although they will occasionally exclude some items. Keep an eye on this [] site, as they usually report any Dell deals on a regular basis.
  • by splanky ( 598553 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:51PM (#7664003)
    For most DVDs, video games, and CDs you are far, far off. Disney DVDs that retail for 14.99 the first week, are wholesaled at 18 bucks. No, I'm not kidding. Video Games wholesale at about 40 bucks for the ones that sell for 49.99 (only a 20% margin). CDs that sell week one for 9.99 cost between 9.09 and 12.04 depending on manufacturer
  • by Lucidus ( 681639 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:51PM (#7664004)
    I am very confused by the many posts claiming that price fixing is legal, as long as there is no collusion among suppliers.

    I worked in retail for many years, selling high-end electronics (audio, and later video, components). Price fixing on the part of manufacturers was absolutely forbidden. It still went on, but the government could come down hard on someone if they found out.

    There were a number of clever ways manufacturers used to get around these restrictions. The most popular was a 'minimum advertised price' policy linked to advertising dollars (i.e., you got a rebate if you sold things at or above the recommended minumum price).

    I have been out of the business for several years now, but I find it hard to believe that things could have changed that much. Could someone with solid current information please clear this up for all of us?
  • by Shawn Parr ( 712602 ) <parr@s[ ] ['haw' in gap]> on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:53PM (#7664017) Homepage Journal
    Or MAP pricing. Apple sets those standards. If you advertise a price below MAP (which on Apple products is ALWAYS retail) you will very likely lose your dealership.

    Only the largest distributors ever do this, and it is only by about $5.

    Also for many retailers Apple products just don't have a lot of margin, i.e. very little profit, so there just isn't much room for discounting until a product reaches end of life (EOL) and all pricing restrictions are removed.

  • by Pyrosophy ( 259529 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:54PM (#7664025)
    I bought mine and the same thing happened, but then I noticed my school's bookstore had it for 25% off. Apparently there is an education discount on these suckers.

    So get yourself to your local college bookstore and either find an oblivious checkout clerk or contact a friend who has a friend who is still in college.

    You save at least $40.
  • Re:- - redundant - - (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:56PM (#7664036)
    As a follow-up, it's not that they can't sell it for less. They can. However, if they do so, they will lose marketing dollars from Apple.

    Retail stores get money from vendors to pay for placement in the fliers as well as prime store placement, such as aisle end caps. If a store chooses to sell the product below that price, all of that money goes away.
  • by teridon ( 139550 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:58PM (#7664058) Homepage
    The Apple Federal Store [] offers discounts of $30, $40, and $50 on the 10-, 20-, and 40-GB models respectively.
  • Shop at Best Buy (Score:5, Informative)

    by jonahark ( 649146 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @07:59PM (#7664066)
    Check for iPods that are "Open Box." They are usually returned by someone who upgrades or downgrades size. They can't be sold as new, so must be marked down. Just bought a 20GB this past weekend - $339. Added in the 4-year Best Buy warranty for $40 to cover the battery and basically anything else that goes bad within 4 years. Also persuaded a fellow customer to take the iPod over the Nomad, even though it still cost him more and had a smaller hard disk. I don't think that Apple needs to drop prices to increase demand.

  • The antitrust laws, however, give a manufacturer latitude to adopt a policy regarding a desired level of resale prices and to deal only with retailers who independently decide to follow that policy. A manufacturer also is permitted to stop dealing with a retailer who breaches the manufacturer's resale price maintenance policy. That is, the manufacturer can adopt the policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.

    Nice job of leaving out the next paragraph. This is probably what the original poster was refering to.

  • by gnu-generation-one ( 717590 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:11PM (#7664168) Homepage
    Best discount I found:

    Nomad Zen NX [] [not a commission link]

    50% more storage than the 20GB iPod, at 2/3 of the price. There's a 60GB version, at less than the cost of a 30Gb iPod.

    It's got replaceable batteries, and unlike the iPod, you don't have to remortgage your house to buy a replacement battery. 14 hour claimed battery life. (that's between charges, not 14 hours until you need a new one ;-)

    It's got a big-screen, it's small, light, has a charger. No GNU support. No OGG. No remote control.
  • by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:11PM (#7664173) Journal

    No, that's horizontal price-fixing. Verical price-fixing is also illegal. See here [], where it says "Vertical price-fixing -- an agreement between a supplier and a dealer that fixes the minimum resale price of a product -- is a clear-cut antitrust violation."

  • Re:Blame Apple (Score:4, Informative)

    by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:12PM (#7664178) Homepage
    In theory, it is illegal for a manufacturer to dictate the price that a store sells an item. For example, Best Buy could choose to sell iPods at a loss just to get more people to the store and there's nothing that Apple can legally do about it

    That's incorrect. There is plenty Apple can legally do about it. For example, Apple can stop selling to/through that store. There is nothing in anti-trust law that requires Apple to sell via every store that wishes to carry iPods.

    Anti-trust law would be a problem if Apple threatened to cut off people for discounting, but if Apple doesn't make the threat, but rather simply acts after the fact and cuts off people who discount, that is perfectly legal.

  • by t8 ( 605422 ) <niraaz@ho[ ] ['tma' in gap]> on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:19PM (#7664232)
    to be honest I haven't used their card since.

    I'd be careful with this piece of advice. According to

    Cancel unnecessary credit accounts.
    'Too many credit cards can hurt your financial reputation, even if you don't use them. If you apply for a mortgage or personal loan, the unused credit cards can affect your chances because lenders look at your "available credit," whether it's used or not, when determining whether or not you are overextended.'

    So sign up for the card to save some cash, just don't forget to get rid of it unless you plan on using it.
  • Developer Prices (Score:3, Informative)

    by Aqua_Geek ( 527624 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:19PM (#7664244) Homepage Journal
    Here are the developer prices for the iPod:

    10GB: $239
    20GB: $319
    40GB: $399
  • You can strap it to your arm with the included holder

    I'm sure someone makes an armband-style case for iPod owners who want one.

    No movable parts so no skipping unlike the ipod

    The iPod has 32MB of cache. The average song encoded at a 128K bit rate is 4MB. So about 6 to 10 songs should fit into the iPod cache. I suppose skipping could become an issue for the iPod if you strap it to a running paint shaker and listen to it for a while.

    The Ipod is overkill in terms of storage (The Iriver can hold 5-50 cds depending on the sampled bitrate but normally I'd say around 6-10)

    Says you. I have a 30GB iPod, and I like being able to carry around my entire CD collection in my shirt pocket. No matter where I am, I can listen to any song I want, any time I want.

    The Ipod is too big & heavy

    The size of a deck of cards and the weight of 2 CDs is too big and heavy? Do you have severely atrophied muscles because you've been in a coma for the last 10 years, or something?

    The Ipod battery fails after about 18 months and costs over $100 to replace

    Lies, all lies. Some people have had battery problems, not everyone. The majority of people with original 5GB iPods who posted when this was brought up a week or two ago are having ZERO problems. And if $100 is too rich for your blood, you can replace the iPod battery yourself for $50. []

    The Ipod is just a notebook/laptop hard drive in a clean looking case but just as fragile as any other hard drive

    I haven't read of anyone who has had issues because of drive fragility. People who are really concerned about it can buy a case. I prefer to just take good care of my stuff.

    I've read nothing but excellent reviews for the Iriver mp3 player and own one and it's the best I've ever had.

    I've read nothing but excellent reviews for the iPod, and own one, and it's the best I've ever had. Neener neener neener!

    I don't agree with the argument that you get more storage for the same price from an Ipod. What's the use if it's overkill? If it was an external hard drive or something along those lines I'd agree but it's not.

    Ummmm, the iPod is an external hard drive. You can store anything on it, you can even install an OS on it and boot from it. For someone who claims to have had an iPod, you sure don't seem to know much about them.

  • by mgbastard ( 612419 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:21PM (#7664264)

    A longtime mac bloggish site is linking to amazon, and offering actual discounts on a variety of apple hardware. Including the iPod.

    Click on over to MacInTouch [] for a little bit off. It's linked off towards the bottom of the home page. It's not a huge discount, but the only one I've seen:

    iPod 10GB: $284.05
    iPod 20GB: $379.05
    iPod 40GB: $474.05

  • I Just Asked Froogle (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zastrossi ( 603991 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:26PM (#7664306) Homepage
    I just asked Froogle, Google's product search engine, and it offered these results [] for a 40 GB unit. The best price on a new iPod it found was $464.00 [], which is about 10% off. []
    Words. Words. Words.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:34PM (#7664388)
    The day after Thanksgiving Apple retail stores and the Apple online stores had iPods at 10% off for all buyers.

    Apple discounted them on the busiest shopping day of the year. What more do you want?
  • No tax advantage (Score:4, Informative)

    by mec ( 14700 ) <> on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:46PM (#7664458) Journal
    It doesn't improve their tax position.

    If the company makes the item for $100, sells it for $350, and then pays out a $75 rebate, they have $175 of net income. They have to pay taxes on that.

    If the company makes the item for $100 and sells it for $275 then they pay taxes on $175 of income.

    To put it in your terms -- the company has to pay taxes on the "more revenue" they got through having a higher list price. You forgot about that part when you were thinking about the tax benefit of mailing the customer a check. The two things offset.

    You are right about the personal information. Who's the best prospect for buying a new model of iPod? Someone who bought an iPod two years ago, of course!

    Plus there is some percentage of people who buy the product but don't get the rebate. But nn the other hand, there are customers like you and me who say "ahhh, fuck it" on a $350 product with a $75 rebate, but we would just buy the damn thing for $275, so the rebate does lose them some sales compared to a simple flat price.

  • Re:Me too (Score:2, Informative)

    by tychay ( 641178 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:46PM (#7664459) Homepage
    That's funny, because it's hard to find any variance in prices of the Dell DJ you bought. Granted, there is a "sale price" listed on Dell's website which seems to be the only price you can get the knockoff at, unless you include bundling prices (which one can do similar through AppleStore for Education or various resellers). Any price savings Dell gives you is because they cut out the retail channel entirely--so much for their vaunted supply chain advantages. This is why nobody wants to carry their products, and goes double for the Dell DJ. That strategy worked well with computers, but it untested for iPods.

    I noticed you bought Dell's spin on battery life. Let's get the facts straight. Looking at the spec sheet it is obvious that Dell went to some Taiwanese ODM with the 1st Generation iPod and a list of patents that they couldn't tread on (scroll wheel, software synchronization). By the time they were able to roll this off the assembly line, Apple had made the iPod significantly lighter and smaller and improved the quality of the battery. Dell had to send out their PR machine to tell you that you should buy their two-years behind design knock off because it has a longer battery life when the iPod has moved on to having a healthy 3rd party market for the 5% of people who need such a battery life.

    So it seems you are playing "Dell's game" while avoiding Apple's game. Great, people like you will eventually cause Apple to lower prices and will lower the resale value of old iPods. Maybe I'll buy one then.

    I would argue that Dell is "doing their best to control price" and seem to be doing better than Apple since I can get iPods sometimes 10% off, or use various gift certificates, or get them used or refurbished.

    Which is how good economy works (supply and demand)--you could have just as easily bought a Creative or Rio. But don't fool yourself by rationalizing your purchase decision as somehow being against those Apple price-fixers. The only one fixing the price right now is the market. The iPod has never enjoyed a monopoly position by any metric other than the "Apple has a monopoly on iPods" one.

    As long as iPods are perceived as cool (by more than just "geeks" like you imply-- look on television or see what musicians are carrying around), Apple will command a higher price. No surprise, Sony did that for years with the Walkman and Discman.
  • by chrisb ( 27471 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:55PM (#7664518)
    20% is a pretty good margin in high to mid volume retail. Especially as you don't really do much to sell them (stick em on a shelf and ring in up on the til). Supermarkets and big department stores (kmart for example) usually get 3%-5%!
  • best buy warranty (Score:4, Informative)

    by citmanual ( 2002 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:58PM (#7664537)
    It used to be a little known clause in Best Buy's store policies that any item purchased as Open Box was given a free 4 year warranty. A lot of times the sales guys would try not to give it out, but when reminded of the policy, they would.

    Bought a tv, vcr, stereo, speakers, car gear of the same and a couple other random things that way from them a few years back. Never got a chance to use the warranties.

  • Re:- - redundant - - (Score:2, Informative)

    by FateCreatr ( 145802 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @08:59PM (#7664542) Homepage
    this is kind of true, you can't advertise below MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) it's part of the reseller agreement. if you do you are subject to contractually designated fines or loss of reseller status. you can sell them for what ever you want, for $1 if you want to, but you'd lose money. if you see anyone deviate by more than about 10-15% it's below cost (including "free" items, resellers still pay for those and it's a part of cost with few exceptions). it's the price of doing business with Apple.
  • Good Job (Score:4, Informative)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland AT yahoo DOT com> on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:02PM (#7664562) Homepage Journal
    Most people will scoff at you for getting the extended warranty. I have found it is a good deal on some very specific items.

    The iPod is a great example, do to the cost of replacing the battery.

    Full computer systems are also worth it. The only IBM clone I ever bought, I had an extended warrenty 5 years, 50 bucks. after 4 years, the monitor went, they shipped me a new one, the even paid postage. A month later my mobo died, the sent mye a new one, and a substantially beefer proc. and RAM. Basically upgraded my complete system for 50 bucks.

    All this assumes a reasonable price one the extended warrenty, naturally.
  • by jr87 ( 653146 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:03PM (#7664564) Homepage
    actually it was announced before the video came out. They also didn't seem to want to use 3rd party batteries....why? I dunno... I think that they had a point but where way to sensationalist.
  • Open Box (Score:2, Informative)

    by lunadude ( 449261 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:10PM (#7664634) Homepage
    I got $40 discount for buying an "Open Box" iPod at Best Buy. Someone had returned it, nothing missing. I had to reformat the drive, but big whoop.

    The Apple warrenty and extended Best Buy warrenty covers everything.

    Apple only "discounts" hardware after the technology is unsupported/dead. This was my best option.

    Consider it, I am very happy.
  • by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:13PM (#7664650) Journal
    I just bought myself a 40GB iPod as my big Xmas gift to myself. Yeah, I was bummed that I missed the day after Thanksgiving sale Apple was running -- but then again, that was also a horrendous day to try doing any shopping. All the crowds and hassles with parking, waiting in lines, etc. probably made it worth waiting and paying the extra 10%.

    Another little tip I've heard, though, is to find a buddy working at a CompUSA store. Supposedly, their employee discounts on Apple products (of all types) come pretty close to the same thing as Apple's educational discounts. One of them should be able to buy you an iPod for at least $40 off or so.

    Also, don't forget, Apple offers a number of discounts similar to the "educational discount". They have a lesser-known military discount, and a discount for govt. employees too. So you should be able to find *someone* who qualifies for one of those.....

    In the grand scheme of things though, I figure an iPod is a pretty pricy little toy, any way you look at it - and if I was going to take the plunge and buy it, I'm not going to incur a bunch of extra hassle just to save less than $50 on the thing. I just paid what they were asking, got my instant gratification, and figure I'll make up for it by avoiding the urge many folks seem to have to waste money on useless iPod accessories (leather cases and the like).
  • WRONG (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:24PM (#7664734)
    Read your own damn link:

    The antitrust laws, however, give a manufacturer latitude to adopt a policy regarding a desired level of resale prices and to deal only with retailers who independently decide to follow that policy. A manufacturer also is permitted to stop dealing with a retailer who breaches the manufacturer's resale price maintenance policy. That is, the manufacturer can adopt the policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.

    Apple can't force them to sign a contract, but they can say "do this and we'll never sell you anything again."
  • by hawkbug ( 94280 ) <psx AT fimble DOT com> on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:29PM (#7664768) Homepage
    Hey, mod this post up. (I don't see how it's off topic people!!) If apple isn't going to cut prices, another competitor will - and sounds like they did. The Zen isn't made by Apple, and all the Apple "loyalists" will ignore it as a result, but for the average consumer, this product competes very nicely. The iPod is built well, very well that is, but with the battery problems it has, the Zen has that advantage of removeable batteries and a lower cost. The only thing the Zen doesn't do is sync up with iTunes and play a propietary Apple format... which doesn't bother me one bit to be honest. I can't speak for the quality of the Zen, but I'm sure it has a warranty.
  • Skipping and Battery (Score:3, Informative)

    by meehawl ( 73285 ) <meehawl.spam@gm a i l .com> on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:38PM (#7664834) Homepage Journal
    I suppose skipping could become an issue

    A workmate of mine bought an iPod a couple weeks ago (mainly for Audible support). He tried replacing his iRiver in the gym with the iPod. Gave it his best shot. It skipped too many times and he returned it to Circuit City. There's only so much you can do with a spinning magnetic disk.

    Some people have had battery problems

    The worst issue with the iPod battery is its small capacity. Apple have trimmed it right down. The PortalPlayer design is incredibly parsimonious with how it does read-ahead into the RAM to limit access, but it's still a huge factor.

    I notice that the iPod's cousins, the other handhelds based on PortalPlayer (Samsung and Philips) get around 15 hours on their batteries at the cost of a couple of cc extra volume over the iPod.
  • by tbdean ( 163865 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:42PM (#7664852) Homepage
    I bought a "store demo" unit for $170 from []. Although it took them 6 DAYS!!! to ship it (so much for my overnight shipping fees) it came in the box with all accessories, manuals, CDs, etc.

    This was for last years model, the 10 GB version. So I can't use many of the accessories designed for the newer iPods. I don't have the dock for example. But I get better battery life and I paid less then $200!
  • by geobaker ( 198332 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @09:53PM (#7664922)
    ... or shall we say 'co-erced'?
    I worked for system integration companies for several years (98-02) which sold a large number of Apple based systems. What several others have deduced is correct:
    as an Authorized Apple reseller, you agree to sell their products for certain prices or lose your Authorized status. The profit for the reseller varied by the MSRP - the higher the price, the wider the profit margin. So you made barely $100 (US) on an iMac, almost $200 on a dual USB iBook (2001), but $500 and up on a mid- to high end G4. [Makes me wonder how much vendors make on the Xserve and Xserve RAID...]

    The only 'deals' you find (outside of free add-ons, as others have mentioned) are resellers who have lost (or are not renewing) their Authorized Reseller status. Then all bets are off and the vendor can clean house....

    Unfortunately, there are only a few each year that are in that position, and they tend to have small inventories. The best 'deal' on Apple product otherwise are from those vendors that refurbish products (e.g.- SmallDog). Then you can get $100+ off the products which were returns, open boxes, or demos.
  • by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @10:04PM (#7664989) [] - Good people...great prices and service.
  • by spasm ( 79260 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @10:05PM (#7664991) Homepage
    no joy. from the OED:

    1. a. The action or an act of selling or making over to another for a price; the exchange of a commodity for money or other valuable consideration. Also, with qualification: (Ready, slow, etc.) disposal of goods for money; opportunity of selling.

    etmology: late OE. sala, prob. a. ON. sala wk. fem. (ON. had also sal neut.) = OHG. sala, MHG. sale, sal str. fem., f. root sal- of *saljan to SELL.

    So it's from old english or old norse root words meaning 'to sell'. Your story is more fun though : )

  • the real deal (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2003 @10:05PM (#7664997)
    from a former apple retail employee:
    apple almost *never* gives discounts. there are 2 exceptions:
    1. a major retail holiday: i guess you missed the deals on black friday in the apple reatil stores (everything relating to ipods was on sale).
    2. a major release party (ie.the iPod release, an OS release)

    historically, anytime there was an instore special event, or special hours, there was a sale involved. you might also want to keep an eye out for the opening anniversary for your local store. for the first 30 or so stores, there were 1st year anniversary promos.
    but to get the *best* deal on an iPod or an Apple CPU, you better get chummy with someome who works for Apple. Not only do they get a personal discount (25%) each calendar year, they are allowed to provide a pretty nice deal to 3 lucky people (15%) called "Friends & Family" each calendar year as well. Besides, they can also give you the inside scoop on instore refresh sales as well.
    Refresh would be a previously opened product which was neither defective nor repaired. In some cases, it simply means the box was opened- product never used. Right after xmas, you'll see *alot* of that in the store due to buyer's remorse or a nice gift gesture gone bad. So happy hunting and good luck!
  • by edanshekar ( 656936 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @10:15PM (#7665065)
    Refurbished iPods (with Dock Connector) Units subject to stringent refurbishment process prior to sale. iPod 10GB (Mac & Windows) Dock not included $229.00 iPod 15GB (Mac & Windows) $279.00 iPod 30GB (Mac & Windows) $349.00 Education discount is also available if you qualify... Then again I think this post is ridiculous...go bargain shopping w/ slashdot's help.
  • by numark ( 577503 ) * <jcolson@[ ] ['ndg' in gap]> on Monday December 08, 2003 @10:31PM (#7665172) Homepage Journal
    Education discounts are available on the Apple Store. There's a link with a green apple that says "Educational Discounts" near the bottom of the page. I saved quite a lot when I bought my iBook through there.
  • by pavon ( 30274 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @10:37PM (#7665202)
    Yep, and you may also be able to order things off the apple store and get the educational discount. See here [], or just go to the apple store and click on the education link in the left column.
  • wow (Score:2, Informative)

    by portscan ( 140282 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @11:27PM (#7665483)
    I can't believe this made it to the front page, but I'll bite.

    1. Ebay. Duh. (, too)
    2. Apple Educational Discounts.
    3. Apple Refurbished products (through the Apple Store).
    4. Dell's online store has frequent coupons for 10-25% off.
    5. maketplace has used stuff.

    The sad fact of the matter for you is that you will not find it much cheaper than the list price. That is because lots of people want it at the list price, and it is not worth it for them to lower the price for you. If you want an iPod, which is the best and most popular mp3 player on the market, you have to expect to pay for it. Comparisons have been made between Apple and BMW. Both offer high quality and fashionable products at premium prices. If you want economy, buy an Archos Jukebox or a Creative Nomad. Slow and ugly, but cheaper. If you want the best, be willing to pay the price.

    All that being said, the real discounts are not for the holiday season, but after the holiday season, so if you are just buying it for yourself, wait until January. Apple always has a conference then, and they slash prices on many products. If the iPod gets updated, you would definitely get more for your money.
  • Re:Price Limits (Score:5, Informative)

    by DrSbaitso ( 93553 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @11:29PM (#7665495)
    Actually, the contracts can specify selling only at MSRP. Stores can purchase iPods at lower prices, but Apple pulls their supply if it catches them discounting. They do this to assure stores a good profit margin so they spend their own resources advertising the product.

    Say Best Buy sells an iPod for 399(MSRP), and Joe's DisKount ElectroniX sells it for 349 next door. Best Buy spends money advertising the availability of iPods, hires salesmen, etc. Joe is a 1-man shop with no ads, except for a big sign on their front window that says "IPODS: 349". They're located right next to Best Buy.

    From Apple's perspective, Joe is freeriding off the efforts of Best Buy. Best Buy is pissed off because it loses sales to Joe from keeping it's retail price up, so it stops promoting the product and drops it's price. Apple is pissed off because no one knows about its product except for tech nerds who scour the internet review sites. Therefore, antitrust law tends to allow retail price maintenance in the absence of monopoly.

    I think you're exactly right - the reason Nintendo got in trouble was because it colluded. I thought it was about the price of cartridges also, not about systems, but i could be wrong.

  • Target (Score:3, Informative)

    by foo12 ( 585116 ) on Monday December 08, 2003 @11:57PM (#7665676)
    Buy at Target and open up a Target card - instant 10% off your entire purchase plus they send you a couple more "10% of an entire day's shopping" coupons in the mail w/ your actual card. On a big ticket item like an iPod it really helps; plus you can load up on other XMas electronic goodies and save a bundle.
  • by linuxguy ( 98493 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @12:04AM (#7665704) Homepage

    I have about 5 of their products, including a
    hard drive based MP3 player. What a waste of
    money. I am not buy another Creative product.

    I have owned an Apple ipod also. Nice mp3 mplayer.
    I am loving my new Rio Karma though.
  • Advertising the MSRP (Score:2, Informative)

    by Arctech ( 538041 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @12:34AM (#7665871) Journal
    They're always at the regular $299/399/499 price, never at a discount of any sort. You read that right, it's 'for sale' at the *regular* price. Stores guilty of this include Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, and CompUSA. Why do stores do this? How often?

    CompUSA does this in just about every single ad they circulate. They do it to generate traffic for people who don't know any better. That's pretty much the entire reason CompUSA exists: People don't know any better.

    As far as if Apple will discount the iPod? Don't bet on it anytime soon. The only reason iTunes was released free for Windows was because Apple hoped it would help fuel iPod sales.

  • by DarkVader ( 121278 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @01:41AM (#7666108)
    I can assure you Apple products are NOT high margin items.

    I work for an Apple dealer, and the margins are sometimes as low as 7%. The days of 20% margins on Macs are long gone.

    (I was talking to a friend in the motorcycle industry the other day - he was complaining about low margins on a line of clothing. The margin he was complaining about was 15%.)

    The only way an Apple dealer makes money at all is by selling accessories, and in services. We generally use non-Apple RAM when adding memory, since it's higher margin (no, it's not inferior, we use lifetime warranty RAM - better than Apple's 1 year warranty, and the people we buy from really do back that warranty up.)

    It's still not a great money-maker. We just won't sell cheap windoze boxes because we really do believe in selling the best product on the market, not just what makes us the most money.

    And hey, the iPod is the best mp3 player on the market. I've got one, and I wouldn't trade my 10GB iPod for a 20GB of an inferior brand.
  • by ssstraub ( 581289 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @01:41AM (#7666113)
    And there's where the iPod fails: 90 days is a joke

    The iPod now comes with a 1-yr warranty.

    (I would rather it was a 3-yr, since it's a 300-500 device...)
  • Wrong Size (Score:3, Informative)

    by meehawl ( 73285 ) <meehawl.spam@gm a i l .com> on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @01:44AM (#7666126) Homepage Journal
    What's to keep you from buying, say, a 10GB iPod ($299), and a 40GB 2.5" HDD

    Em, because the iPod uses 1.8" drives? You want to easily swap out hard drives, get an Archos with 2.5". A friend of mine upgraded her 15GB to 80GB.

    FYI, although the iPod gains a lot of its compactness from its smaller hard drive, it's been surpassed by the Nitrus, MuVo, and others using the new 1" drives from Cornice. Only 1.5GB at the moment, but they will be 5GB by next year. They enable very compact players that make the iPod seem oversized and so, well, last year.
  • by ITR81 ( 727140 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @01:51AM (#7666150)

    Where were you? This was through their retail chain and online store as well which also included Canada through it's online store.

    You can also buy them at discount through edu and gov discounts.

    Also if you don't mind a refurb goto as they sell new and used models people have traded in for a new model.

    Apple is suppose to be releasing a 4th Gen iPod at MacWorld so you might want to buy them after MacWorld Expo because all them will get a price break once the new iPods are introduced.

    Apple also sells refurbs through it's website from time to time..but they go very quickly. ppleStore.woa/71008/wo/dOaNYUHhfbRL2SgrDmK2aPropaP /,58

    Right now they got the following(refurbs from Apple Direct):

    iPod 10GB (Mac & Windows) Dock not included $229.00

    iPod 15GB (Mac & Windows) $279.00

    iPod 30GB (Mac & Windows) $349.00

    Also check Best Buy for open box sales.

    Also another reason most reseller won't cut prices on iPods is because they are the hot item for Christmas this yr. I know for a fact at two CompUSA's here they sell between 30-100 iPods a week compare to all the other MP3 players which they may sell 5 if their lucky.

    My friend at CompUSA told me they sold 2 Dell DJ's even with a sale on them. Now compare that to the iPod sales which they sold 45 of at reg pricing. So why should Apple or resellers drop the price when they sell that well even when others have discounts on their MP3 Players.

    Also Apple has another thing going for it. The iPod is fashionable because it's the "in thing" to have at HS and Colleges. About half of the college girls on campus here have them.

    Now if Apple comes out with it's econ. priced iPod and similar video type iPod I think they will pretty much kill the rest of the market.

  • by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @02:04AM (#7666221)
    "A trip to Fry's is two trips to Fry's"

    They do have a great return policy, they'll take almost anything back without (major) hassles.
    I used to buy almost all of my computer stuff at Fry's and noticed the same situation. Plus the boxes being sold as 'new' would have manuals or cables missing. That would be marked on the sticker and the unit would still be the same price as the unopened units.
    I once bought three bare-bone systems in a row from Fry's before one worked. I used to think that it was my fault for being 'technically challenged'.
    But life's too short for this nonsense. Fry's should have the world's most detailed web site that covers everything that they sell and have recently sold. All the drivers, all the manuals in PDF, everything. They should insist that the manufacturer supply their super web site with all this documentation before they agree to stock the product.

    I now get most of my computer stuff from listings on
  • Re:UTF Support? (Score:2, Informative)

    by preetamrai ( 637011 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @04:26AM (#7666638) Homepage
    yes, it does. I myself listen to a lot of Korean music. It is nice to see hangul and chinese characters on the ipod.
  • by Undercover Pillow ( 730300 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @05:58AM (#7666838)
    Dell had been selling iPods for a while and pulled them right before the launch of the Dell DJ. They brought them back for a little while (when I nabbed a 40gig for about $400 shipped), but they appear to be gone again. I wouldn't expect them to come back now that Dell is fully behind their own player.

Loose bits sink chips.