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Wireless Networking Hardware Technology

First UK On-Train WiFi Service Launches Monday 179

Posted by timothy from the train-travel-rules dept.
dave writes "UK train company GNER starts trials of the UK's first on-train wireless Internet access service. Currently only available on limited services and in First Class; if the trial is successful the service will be rolled out across the entire fleet in both Standard and First Class."
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First UK On-Train WiFi Service Launches Monday More

First UK On-Train WiFi Service Launches Monday

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  • The real cost... (Score:5, Funny)

    by chill ( 34294 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @04:59AM (#7591713) Journal
    ...was making the first class coaches into Faraday Cages so the dweebs in Stanard Class couldn't snag some airtime.

    I can also see some desparate geek trying to download his e-mail -- while zipping along at 100 kph in his car, parallel to the train.
    • We use mph in the UK and our high speed trains - the type which GNER operate - run at 125mph. The road speed limit is 70mph btw so it's not that likely :o)

      • Re:The real cost... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Zemran ( 3101 )
        Do you happen to know which stretches of GNER route run next to the motorway? It is one thing to do 125mph (with a radar detector, of course) but I would like to be on a straight road :) All this to save 1p in online costs :)
        • The East Coast Mainline runs roughly along the same route as the A1 - which is a 70mph road for far bits of its length. But not that close in that many places. Not sure about north of Edinburgh...
      • >We use mph in the UK and our high speed trains - the type which GNER operate -
        >run at 125mph. The road speed limit is 70mph btw so it's not that likely :o)

        Yes, but in reality people travel at closer to 90mph on the motorways, and you'll be lucky if your train travels above 50mph for more than 2 or 3 miles at a time before encountering a broken track, sleeping/drunken driver missing a red light, a delay due to a failed train ahead or industrial action bringing the entire network to a standstill!

        • Re:The real cost... (Score:3, Informative)

          by tiger99 ( 725715 )
          The last drunk TRAIN driver to kill passengers was ar Eltham Well Hall on 11th June 1972. They kill 1000 on the roads every year. A sleeping ROAD VEHICLE driver caused the Great Heck aka Selby crash. There are less than 2 broken rails on the entire network each day, the chances of one affecting a GNER train are not very great. If you actually take a GNER train from London to Edinburgh, it will, apart from station stops, normally drop below 60mph at two places, Newcastle and Morpeth, due to very tight curvat
      • They are a bit quicker than most of the Diesel Intercity trains which go at 125 Mph (Intercity 125). But not as fast as the brand new trains on the high speed link to the channel tunnel.

        Of course, in these days of crashes and litigation, they daren't go faster than about 100mph in practice.

        Either way, you wouldn't be able to keep up in a car.

    • Re:The real cost... (Score:4, Funny)

      by bonsaiburner ( 241972 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @08:56AM (#7592147)
      Fact is you could probably *walk* next to the train and get a decent connection... 5MPH seems to be about the average speed of a UK train these days, that's if a train turns up at all...

      Nice to see GNER have got their priorities straight - the state of our railway system leaves a lot to be desired and I'm sure the money could be better spent - and that's from a geek with as much wireless tech as anyone else :)

  • The problem I have with trains (Score:3, Offtopic)

    by Pingular ( 670773 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:00AM (#7591717)
    in the UK is not the lack of wifi, it's that I never arrive at my destination on time, as there's always delays for some reason. Don't try to run before you can walk, eh.
    • To be fair, a relatively small number of day-to-day problems are caused by the train companies, the majority of difficulties stemming from network problems.

    • Re:The problem I have with trains (Score:5, Informative)

      by ender81b ( 520454 ) <wdinger@g m a i l . com> on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:07AM (#7591732) Homepage Journal
      I've been riding the trains in the UK for the past 6 months ish and I don't understand what people's problem with them is. If they are delayed it is almost never more than 10 minutes and if it is greater than 10 minutes it's usually due to something weird like lightning hitting the tracks or some other thing. 9 times out of 10 your train is never delayed and you don't run into problems.

      To me, as an american, the trains are fan-fucking-tastic. American mass transportation systems can't come close to the ease and convience that the British get from the train system. Personally, I love it. Get on whatever train you want come back on whatever train you want at any time. It's great.

      Now, for me, I want wireless and I want it now ;). The 4 hour train ride to London would be much much much easier to deal with if I could have my precious intarweb with me.

      • Re:The problem I have with trains (Score:4, Insightful)

        by benna ( 614220 ) * <mimenarrator@g m a i l .com> on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:11AM (#7591739) Journal
        At least they TELL you it's something strange like lightning hitting the tracks. In reality the conductor probobly fell asleep while he was driving the train.

        • This is what bothers me about our trains:

          Potters Bar (2002) [bbc.co.uk]
          Hatfield (2000) [bbc.co.uk]
          Ladbroke Grove (1999) [bbc.co.uk]
          Selby (2001) [bbc.co.uk]

          There have been others...

          And they are talking about WiFi? Disgusting.

          • Re:The problem I have with trains (Score:5, Insightful)

            by mikeb ( 6025 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:45AM (#7591805) Homepage
            I am genuinely mystified by the common practise of citing recnet rail crashes as, so far as I can tell, evidence of systemic failure in the railway system. The rail crashes and loss of life are naturally terrible events and wherever possible strenuous efforts should be made to eliminate the causes of them BUT BUT BUT - on average six people die every day on British roads.

            It's a bad YEAR when six die on the rails. Even if it has deteriorated somewhat in recent years (and should therefore be given urgent attention), it's in a different league from the risks associated with road travel.

            Yet you wait in vain to hear calls for public enquiries into the deadly state of the road transport system. Why is that? I'm not making a political point here, I'm genuinely amazed that these two situations exist: a dangerous transport system alongside one that is very much better with the latter attracting the 'we must make it safer' publicity.

            It just doesn't make sense to me.

            • Re:The problem I have with trains (Score:5, Insightful)

              by Zemran ( 3101 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @06:30AM (#7591886) Homepage Journal
              This is a very good point. It is also worth adding that if you are on a motorway and are involved in an accident with other cars the risk of death is very low because all the energy is travelling in the same direction regardless of speed. On the other hand, if a lorry is involved the risk of death goes through the roof. That freight should be on the rails... We need to shift back to rail rather than abandon it.

              I have to stop before I get into a political rant about fuel tax etc. and lack of investment on rail...

              • Re:The problem I have with trains (Score:4, Insightful)

                by ralphclark ( 11346 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @07:14AM (#7591956) Journal
                I wish to God somebody would mod that up. I agree 100%. Lorries are a fucking nuisance and a menace to all other road users. There are enough laws about how lorries should be driven (eg keeping to their own lane, keeping below 60mph) but lorry drivers *never* obey those laws.

                Also they tend to rely on their size to intimidate. In theory nobody is supposed to pull any sort of maneuver without looking first to make sure it won't force another road user to change speed or direction. But lorry drivers just don't give a damn. You'd better keep your wits about you when you're driving behind one of those things.

                Taking long distance freight off the roads and putting it back onto rail where it belongs would be a major vote winner I reckon.
                • "Taking long distance freight off the roads and putting it back onto rail where it belongs would be a major vote winner I reckon." Not to the people who actually ship that freight and don't want to be at the mercy of the rail unions again. If even the Post Office have found that it's cheaper to ship letters by road than by rail, there's no hope of people choosing to send their frieght by train again. As for trucks on the road, the problem is not the trucks, the problem is that for decades now the governme
                • Yeah but who is going to pay for the increased track usage? As it is no track maint. is spiralling out of control, cost wise. Now you want to, say, double the traffic on the lines?
            • Selby's a bit of a red herring here, but the inquiries into Ladbroke Grove, Hatfield and Potters Bar each concluded that systemic factors contributed to the accidents - poor maintenance of signals, poor maintence of points, poor maintenance and condition checking of rails, generally poor safety culture.

              BBC URIs for the reports:
              Hatfield [bbc.co.uk]
              Potters Bar [bbc.co.uk]
              Ladbroke Grove [bbc.co.uk]

              I worked for Railtrack a few years back on a condition survey project, and we found at least one set of points which the contractor had signed
          • Correct my if I'm wrong, but weren't three of those caused by track problems, and isn't the train company independent of the track company? And the other crash was caused by a car on the tracks. So no, it's not disgusting for the train company to be looking at WiFi.
            • You are correct. GNER did not cause the deaths at Hatfield.

              mikeb made some fair points about cars so I will too.

              Once upon a time, cars were death-machines. You crashed, you died. Laws were introduced forcing car manufactures to improve safety. We saw crumple zones, headrests, shatterproof glass, seatbelts, airbags, to name but a few. All these save lives.

              You've seen the pictures of the crashes. Travelling along at 100mph in a plastic Tupperware box with little to no brakes, no seatbelts, no airbags, no w
              • isn't it more disgusting that car manufacturers put CD players, radios, TV's in cars when they haven't bothered to solve the problem of huge numbers of deaths yet?

                at least the WiFi allows people to work while travelling, CD players are just indulgent entertainment ffs.
              • GNER are spending money on a WiFi system. I still say it is disgusting.

                If it comes from the same pot, and if it isn't going to earn money back which will add to either profits or spending on safety, you might be right. But you could say the same about any other facilities for passenger comfort rather than safety. For example, a friend who frequently travels by rail alleges that the air conditioning is very often out of action and you boil or freeze. Are you saying this is right and that they shouldn't fi
          • Oh for goodness' sakes, if you're worried about trains because of four train crashes in three years, why on earth don't you worry about the roads? Trains are one of the safest methods of travel, it's just that train crashes are occasional news, whilst no news station wants to be doing a daily update of car accidents.
            • "Trains are one of the safest methods of travel, it's just that train crashes are occasional news, whilst no news station wants to be doing a daily update of car accidents."

              The difference is that whether or not I get killed in a rail accident is purely a matter of luck, whereas I mostly control whether or not I get killed on the roads: sure, there's some measure of luck there, but by driving at a safe speed at a safe distance and looking ahead for potential problems you eliminate most of the risks. On a ra
              • As you say "I mostly control..." - i.e. you don't entirely control. The residual accidents - people jumping the central reservation, somebody trying to enter the exit of a major road (saw that on Friday), idiots throwing bricks off bridges, total drunks - probably still represent a higher risk than train travel. There are, for example, a lot more controls to stop train drivers being drunk (they have to check in, sign the log etc.) than there are to stop car drivers being drunk (they have to find the keyhole
              • The difference is that whether or not I get killed in a rail accident is purely a matter of luck, whereas I mostly control whether or not I get killed on the roads: sure, there's some measure of luck there, but by driving at a safe speed at a safe distance and looking ahead for potential problems you eliminate most of the risks.

                Nice in theory, not in practice. Although you're driving safely about 50% of the rest of the drivers on the road aren't. All it takes is for that prat in the outside lane to spin

          • The train companies are not entirely to blame for those accidents.

            If you want someone to blame, pick the Conservative government of the time that sold off the railway network to the highest bidder at a massively undervalued price.

            So began the culture of profits before safety that dogged Railtrack. Enormous profits earned from buying the network at such a low price and then selling shares should have been sunk back into improving the railways. Of course, as expected, they gave it all away to shareholders a
            • So began the culture of profits before safety that dogged Railtrack.

              I find it interesting that others won't learn from the mistakes the UK have found from privitizing the rails there.

              There are many who are pushing to privitize Amtrak as the solution to the modest subsidies it requires.

              Oh, I get it, if it's American companies doing it, then it'd be better.

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
                Comment removed based on user account deletion

                • There's a widespread belief that way too much taxpayer's money is being spent on keeping alive a form of transportation considered obsolete.

                  Hmm, let's see, either 1.5 hours traveling to NYC while relaxing in the cafe car with my laptop, or fighting traffic for 2-3 hours on the boring NJ Turnpike, dealing with midtown traffic, finding parking, and then trying not to fall asleep at the wheel on the return journey.

                  Amtrak works -- and is profitable --in certain parts of the U.S. The problem is they have to

                  • Amtrak works -- and is profitable --in certain parts of the U.S. The problem is they have to keep the unprofitable running of many long distance routes due to congressional pressure. The same Congress that won't let Amtrak cut unprofitable long distance routes is the same Congress that whines about giving them a few hundred million a year in subsidy (all while saying that spending 87 billion in Iraq is no big deal, it's just a drop in the bucket).

                    Actually the Surfliner, which runs between Goleta and San

      • I've been riding the trains in the UK for the past 6 months ish and I don't understand what people's problem with them is.
        Wow. You must be incredibly lucky. I've been making a 200ish mile commute for the past 5 years or so once every 2 weeks, and every year it just gets worse. The predicted journey time used to be about 1 hour 30 minutes with no changes, and I never used to be more than 10 minutes late. Now the predicted journey time is 2 hours 30 minutes and I'm rarely less than 30 minutes late, the
        • Maybe i'm not lucky.. it's possible it's just because I mainly take trains in the north of england to scotland or down to manchester and rarely deal with the higher density routes around london and the rest. Still, all 3 times I have been to london the most I was delayed was 3 minutes and one time I got there 10 minutes *ahead* of schedule.

          No, I haven't tried trains in the rest of europe, just in GB.
          • I used to commute every day by train. Probably about 99% of the time the train left Leeds on time. Once or twice it was cancelled and occasionally it had been held up on the way in to Leeds from other trains running late. It was reliable enough that I was only ever late due to my bus/train connection going wrong due to a late running bus. The rolling stock is new, comfortable and air-conditioned.

            A friend, who was staying here recently and spent a week communiting to a different town was again only held
        • Have you tried trains in the rest of Europe? Pretty much every country's train service in Europe is better than England's.

          The only ones recently I used where from a village outside Potsdam (Potsdam University's out of town campus) and Berlin Zoo. In both directions the train was late. In one just a couple of minutes but the other was twenty minutes late.
      • As an American, you might find the idea of trains great. They are. Go to Dernmark or Germany or Sweden and check them out.

        Then come back to England, and try and use them. I mean rely on them, for work, or an important appointment. You just can't do it. My train to/from work (on the line between Paddington and Slough) is late on an almost daily basis. They're filthy, extremely expensive, and very dangerous. There is no system to prevent trains crossing red signals - you have to hope the human driver is in a
      • You might find that on certain lines if you don't travel at peak times. There have been some quite incredible things happeneing in the last few years, quite closely mirroring the events in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. The government seized control of the rail tracks themselves, now they've seized the maintainence companies, and there have been all kinds of cooked up failures, where one accident leads to an insane overreaction by the government's new rail "executive", the Stratigic Rail Authority. And all t
      • WiFi is certainly a welcome addition to the GNER--that is, when it comes to 2nd class AND when you can find a space to sit.

        You don't see a problem with UK trains because you're american. Try european trains: the extent of the networks, the cleanness of the carriages and the consistency of investment are usually much better than in the UK. I'm talking germany, switzerland, even france (think of the new 2-floor TGVs...very comfy, very smooth.) Here in france trains usually leave and arrive within the minute
      • I have been using the trains in the UK and, after having lived in The Netherlands I can only say I am shocked. In fact, I would say that the worst thing in the UK are the trains.
        Arround here (Birmingham) ~40% of the trains have delays bigger than 5 minutes. In the weekend it can be hours, HOURS. During the summer the line from Birmingham to London was cut for maintainence for 3 DAYS IN A ROW. Buses were at least available as an alternative.
        And most of the trains are not confortable. Especially the local one
      • I've been riding the trains in the UK for the past 6 months ish and I don't understand what people's problem with them is.

        I'd second that. I've used them for about 5 years now, and I commuted regularly on them (12 journeys a week) for about 3 months, and I really don't have a big problem with them. Even when I've had a major problem (like a train from York being diverted and so missing the last train from Birmingham), they've put on coach services to take us there. Doesn't that smack of good service in ba
        • Yeah the track is the big problem from what I understand. It looks like the government put off repairs on the tracks and then sold them leaving virgin and others with enormous track upgrades and repairs needed. Then you have the problem that your are shoving too many trains too quickly on the available tracks and the maint. cycle increases plus the tracks that most need ot be expanded/replaced are those routes that give the train companies the most money and you can see why british rail is having a problem.
        • "Personally I think half the problem is in the British attitude. We want everything to be on time, snappy, and we want the trains to get there as quickly as possible."

          Yes, God forbid that we should want the service that we've paid for, especially after the railway raised the fare into London from here by 50% last year. We should be grateful that we get the crap service that we do, and apologise when someone complains about having to stand for an hour on the platform in the wind and rain because the previou
          • "If we shut the whole thing down"

            We'd all be a lot better off, and all that money wasted running trains could be spent on building proper roads instead. But that will never happen while the transport unions are a significant force in politics.

            Hmmm, you haven't thought this through, have you? To match the capacity of a fully operational rail network we'd have to expand roads so dramatically that we'd completely decimate huge areas of natural beauty, cultural and biological significance. We'd have to compl
      • Comparing the UK's train system to the American system and saying that it's great by comparison is like saying that McDonald's food is great when compared to poo.

        The American system is total crap, but that doesn't mean the UK system is great. I've never used the UK system, but your description doesn't sound so good. In France, if a train is more than a couple of minutes late, they actually get on the PA and say "we're sorry for the delay, please don't hate us". Ten minutes late is nutty. I've only been mor
      • "If they are delayed it is almost never more than 10 minutes and if it is greater than 10 minutes it's usually due to something weird like lightning hitting the tracks or some other thing."

        Which is fine if you have nothing better to do with your time. Some of us actually travel in order to get somewhere, and not to "enjoy" sitting on a train full of drunken football hooligans, beggars and people coughing and sneezing all over us.

        I live on a direct rail line in and out of London, yet if I want to go to Lon
        • but because the private owners will rip up the tracks and sell off the land.

          Short memories! The reason the railways are in such a sorry state really was the attempt by the Wilson Government to make them comercial in the 1960s. Over half the line was ripped up (2,500 miles!) and over two thirds of the stations closed. One of the biggest losses was the removal of the 'slow lines' which means there's no alternate tracks for slow moving goods or as back up lines. How many times has a train been delayed be
    • Right. Try typing on the trains I use and you'll get an elbow in the ribcage.

      • Try typing on the trains I use and you'll get an elbow in the ribcage.

        Good point. I took a ride on the Midland Mainline up to Kettering last month and couldn't believe how much that thing shook from side-to-side. Not near as nice running as the older diesel-electrics I rode in in past visits to the UK (ok, so you had to open the window to reach out to open the door at a station, but the trains themselves were much smoother running...)

        And 25 quid for an hour journey is a bit on the steep side too. Then

  • "when the train passes through a tunnel, 4-6 cellular phone links are used in parallel to maintain the Internet connection, and even if the speed decreases temporarily, the connection will entirely not drop."

    Just a shame that GNER don't actually operate this far West in the UK.

    Not having a laptop is probably going to be an issue as well, I suppose.

  • VIA Already has this (Score:5, Informative)

    by yani ( 50270 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:04AM (#7591726)
    VIA (the national train service in Canada) already has this on thier first class cars, see here [viarail.ca].

    I've seen one go by while I was at the train station on day waiting for the commuter train but it was going by a bit too quickly for me to try to grab a connection with my axim x3i :P

  • Cool! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Sanity ( 1431 ) * on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:05AM (#7591729) Homepage Journal
    This will seal the deal for me, I will never fly from Edinburgh to London again. Already a train journey (5-6 hours door to door) isn't that much longer than a flight (almost 4 hours door to door) and its a hell of a lot more convenient.

    Its unfortunate that this is currently only available in one carriage, one would imagine that the expensive bit is the satellite uplink (assuming this is how they do it, although I saw GSM mentioned somewhere), distributing the wireless within the train should be the easy bit.

    • I always try and take the train when travelling for work in the UK. It is usally faster and cheaper than driving (40p per mile expensed to my company). This just makes it even more inviting. Hopefully bosses will start demanding sales reps and onroad staff take the train so they can actaully work during the travel time. With this and the new driving with mobile/PDA rules in place it makes sense.

      The only time it really makes sense to drive is when the customers site is to far from the station.

  • window dressing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by xirtam_work ( 560625 )
    this is all just windows dressing to cover up the fact that most journeys are either delayed or cancelled.

    on a standard rate ticket the train cars are massively over packed during commuter periods. thankfully the gner routes are not as popular as the ones in the south and south-east.

    that this has happened at all is a nice and due to competition from virgin trains who operate on the western main line up and down the country, who offer laptop and mobile charging, etc. on your journey for a business class

    • The virgin trains I've been on (the Euston Liverpool lime street service, and also Liverpool Portsmouth harbour) have all had laptop charging points in the carriges I've been in, and I've most definatly only been in the cheapest parts of the train... They also had headphone jacks in the seats so you could listen to virgin radio (which by the way is by far the best comercial radio station i've ever heard)

    • imagine if the internet was run by idiot companies with no idea about how to run a network with all the isp's just putting more traffic over a poor backbone infrastructure that was already in place, with little or no investment in that infrastructure, with all the maintainence work contracted out to the cheapest sub-contractor.
      What, is it 1995 again?!? Did AOL just buy ANS? Hey, maybe my stock options are worth something again!!

  • amtrak testing it (Score:4, Informative)

    by Wakkow ( 52585 ) * on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:19AM (#7591756) Homepage
    I recall reading about Amtrak working with yahoo to provide net access on the trains.. I don't know if it panned out, and google searches just come up with old articles [internetnews.com]. Anyone know what happened?

    Looking now, I see that the local train [amtrakcapitols.com] is testing wifi [amtrakcapitols.com] on certain routes.

  • Thank you... (Score:5, Funny)

    by blowdart ( 31458 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:22AM (#7591761) Homepage
    Now maybe people will send "I'm on the train" emails, instead of forcing the whole carriage to listen to one half of your mobile phone conversation.

  • Residents near the train tracks get free WiFi too! (Score:4, Funny)

    by IvyMike ( 178408 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:38AM (#7591791)
    30 seconds at a time, several times a day, that is. "The 14:55 from Aberdeen's coming, get ready to hit reload!"

  • Amazing bandwidth multiplication. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tgrasl ( 607606 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @05:47AM (#7591807)
    You will experience approximately the same kind of quality as with a DSL connection...

    I'd be interested to know how the expect to get DSL-level bandwith from GSM technology, especially when more than one person will be using the line.

    Also, in my experience public WIFI providers tend to charge an arm and a leg for the service. I'm sure the trial is free, but I can't see it remaining that way when the role the service out to "standard class". 1 per email, anyone ?

  • Sounds like a desperate attempt to upsell seats in first class to me. I doubt if it's going to work because you're either willing to pay thru the nose for a special seat or you're not, how does better internet access make a difference? I already can and do get an adequate bluetooth/GPRS connection anyway, even in economy class.

    Also the UK train system does not have a particularly good record for efficiency, they really struggle with the retailing computers in the snack-bar so why do I not have a good feeli
    • Personally I'd put not crashing at the top of my wish lists for cars yet you still see people with mobile phones to their ears - or worse still texting their mates while they drive.

      I've seen people reading books and newspapers in the car WHILE driving - not just while stopped and with portable DVD players becoming more and more prevalent they're starting to take away from the brain time of the modern driver.

      As an earlier poster mentioned there are 6 people killed on roads in the UK each day yet there are
    • The trial is in first class, which seems like a sensible choice if your aim is to test the system in a subset of the train where passengers are likely to have laptops which can be connected.

  • France is doing it too (Score:5, Informative)

    by Krunch ( 704330 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @06:13AM (#7591855) Homepage
    Here is a link [sncf.com] (PDF). Sorry it's in French but I can't find one in English. Here is the Google translation [google.com] of the HTML version.

  • More technical details (Score:5, Informative)

    by nickovs ( 115935 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @06:29AM (#7591885)
    The technology for this is provided by Icomera [icomera.com]. There are some more data about what their technology does, though not really much about how it works. Their speciality seems to be "Seamless Handover" between the different types of network connection.
  • I operate an open node not more than 150 metres from a major railway bridge over the GNER - not seen any signs of a connection (yet) :)

    • Re:Not detected (yet) (Score:2, Informative)

      by tiger99 ( 725715 )
      Hat you read the GNER web site carefully, you would see that it is only installed in one coach of one train, and at the speed they would normally pass, you would be unlikely to have time to achieve a connection anyway.
  • And on polish trains, there's even no electricity in 220V sockets. :(
    not to mention bathrooms working maybe in 20% cases. ...and they complain railways are unprofitable here.

  • Will we notice the difference? (Score:5, Funny)

    by SW6 ( 140530 ) <abuse@cabal.org.uk> on Sunday November 30, 2003 @07:19AM (#7591965) Homepage
    "The. Eight. Oh two. Packets to. London. Are running approximately. Sixty Five. Minutes late. GNER apologise for the late running of your Internet Connection."

    "The nine-*crackle* packets from *garble* will now be arriving at platform *mumble*."

  • Give people more info (Score:3, Interesting)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @07:35AM (#7591991) Journal
    What would be really cool is access to a real-time train map like the controllers see, then you can see the real reason your train just stopped in the middle of no-where for 15 mins with no explination. Also - and i dont think transportation people have really caught on to this fact: things always seem faster when you have a moving progress bar on a screen (it has to move every second). People want to be able to see whats going on and when - thats why people like the count-down displays at bus stops and on the tube.
    • That system is called TDS (Train Describer System) and is a front end to the signalmen's panels.

      I agree - whenever I catch sight of a TDS screen, the information is far more useful to me than the CIS (Customer mis-Information System) that powers the platform screens and indicators -assuming they haven crashed (most of the time) or aren't displaying an MS Windows error dialogue!

      They should deinately have a web front end to the TDS maps.

  • Rail safety ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by JonyEpsilon ( 662675 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @08:10AM (#7592064) Homepage
    You will experience approximately the same kind of quality as with a DSL connection though the connection speed will vary based on obstacles along the railway track

    Never mind the connection speed varying - we're all gonna die !

  • WiFi LAN Game Protocol? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by G4from128k ( 686170 ) on Sunday November 30, 2003 @08:22AM (#7592078)
    To really enjoy this train wifi, we need a LAN Game protocol designed for publically used WiFi locations. This would let people publish a list of which games they might like to play and support connectinons to others. Any LAN-playable game would need some type of plugin that provides information about how to connect to other (i.e., a Chess app would only let one other person connect, an MMORG would define which scenarios different people want to play, etc.) That way the person in car 2 could find a game buddy in car 4 without any prearrangements with that person.

    I see only two problems. The first is security. Depending on who programs the protocol, it could end up with exploits. Also, the games might provide a channel for exploits if someone uses a hacked copy of Doom to insinuate themselves into another rider's laptop. The second problem would be playability when the person in car 3 decides to use the 5 hour journey to download the latest Linux distro.

  • Speed and happiness (Score:4, Interesting)

    by heironymouscoward ( 683461 ) <heironymouscowar ... m ['oo.' in gap]> on Sunday November 30, 2003 @08:29AM (#7592095) Journal
    This is a great step forwards.

    People will complain about late or cancelled trains but the fact is that no journey is every fast enough if you're not enjoying yourself, and no journey is too slow if you're having a good time.

    The question therefore is: will on-board internet links make life better or worse for travellers? And the answer is obviously "yes".

    With a notebook and wifi, even long waits are entirely bearable and can be fun. I'd rather a four-hour train journey with wifi than a two hour flight without.
    • "The question therefore is: will on-board internet links make life better or worse for travellers? And the answer is obviously "yes"."

      Hmmm...

      I think 'better' or 'worse' would have been more obvious answers ;)
      • wasn't that the joke? both answers are correct.
      • Sometimes I wish I'd finished 3rd grade so I could finish sentences correctly. Well, I meant "yes, better". Usually I flame my own posts when I find obvious errors in them. You beat me to it.

        Back to the story, I think trains, planes, airports and terminals are about the only places where WiFi has a real future, where there is a captive market with notebooks and money to spend on keeping up to date with their latest Slashdot karma.
    • "no journey is too slow if you're having a good time" Unless you're one of the people who are actually going somewhere and have a deadline to meet, rather than just spending a day travelling on the trains in some weird trainspotter ritual.
    • The availablity of this service may have serious consequences for the UK wardriver community.

      I can see now swathes of Wardrivers being killed at the wheel while driving in excess of 110mph trying to maintain the "perfect signal" they just aquired.

      Oh the dark times ahead....

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