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Linux Business Hardware

Creative Recycling: Dumpster Diving 137

gnewton writes "One angle of Open Source software that perhaps has not been emphasised enough is how the lower cost of software and operating systems as compared to proprietary/commercial solutions can allow for greater creativity and actually open up markets and solutions that were previously unavailable, in the area of Recycling. This article talks about a new startup which recycles old LCDs into cool and fun digital picture frames."
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Creative Recycling: Dumpster Diving

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  • Okay (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Quasar1999 ( 520073 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:13PM (#7523815) Journal
    That's neat... really, I would love an alternative to buying the LCD picture frames on sale at Thinkgeek.com for more than the cost of a brand new LCD monitor of equal or larger size...
  • Article Text (Score:5, Informative)

    by The_Bad_Bob ( 691779 ) <Bad_Bob@theuz.cj b . n et> on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:14PM (#7523816) Homepage
    Last week I covered Roku, the high-end digital media player for HDTV buyers with money to burn. Roku was founded and financed by Anthony Wood, who made out well when he sold ReplayTV to SonicBlue. He's a rich guy selling gizmos to other rich guys, but not all startups have Anthony's resources. Here is a success story from one resource-challenged startup. Wallflower, which is also in the digital photograph display business, managed to get itself off the ground with a strategy I've seen only once before: dumpster diving.

    The company makes (expensive) digital picture frames that compete with Ceiva, Digiframe, and Pacific Digital. Nothing special there. But Wallflower's startup plan was based around building its high-end products with pieces from recycled computers. To get started, Wallflower founders Mitch Kahn and Gordon Clyne bought 150 old but unused laptops from liquidators and via eBay, for $25 to $150 each. They were obsolete as workstations (most had 133MHz CPUs and smallish hard drives) but had the right pieces to make nice picture frames--most importantly, working 12" LCD panels.

    Mitch and Gordon's small team disassembled the machines, mounted the displays in handmade wood frames with the motherboard and hard disk, and added Wi-Fi and their own Linux-based software. Basically, the Wallflower displays are Web servers that appear on a Windows desktop as disk drives--you put one on your network and you can just drag pictures onto it, and call up its internal home page to manage its settings. Now you have a nice big electronic photo frame to show your digital pictures, and changing the display is as easy as typing a URL into your home computer.

    Frankly I can't see spending $500 for one of these things--but what do I know? Shortly after Forbes ran an article about the product, Wallflower sold out of its inventory of Frankensteined picture frames. Left with nice cashflow from its rising order volume, and needing more certainty in its supply chain than Weird Stuff Warehouse could provide, Wallflower recently gave up on the whole recycled kick and started buying components from manufacturers, the way most computer companies do.

    With the new manufacturing strategy, the company is able to offer more features and bigger screens, but it had to raise its prices since these components are more expensive. Although I imagine they save a fortune in assembly costs, since they no longer have to dismantle laptops to get their parts.

    There is a thriving economy in the leftover computer business. Another company in this space, RetroBox, makes money coming and going. First of all, they take in used computers from businesses that no longer need of them, and carefully scrub the hard disks clean of data--companies are so worried that old machines will get out into the world with sensitive data on them that they'll pay nicely for this service. Then, of course, RetroBox is free to re-sell the scrubbed hardware to new users or to re-builders like Wallflower.

    But back to Wallflower. I love this story, since it combines the identification of an unusual but growing market space (digital picture frames) with the extremely clever, low-cost startup strategy of making its first products from unloved, unsold, obsolete technology. The founders knew full well that strategy wouldn't scale if they became successful, and they were able to switch to more ordinary production methods when they did, about one-and-a-half years ahead of plan.

    As I said earlier, this manufacturing model isn't completely new: In 2000, startup Scout Electromedia released the Modo, a pager-like device that functioned as a city guide in New York. Scout made me look like a chump by folding shortly after I wrote a Catch of the Day about it. But the guts of the unsold Modos lived on: Wideray's first batch of products (it makes devices that beam data to PDAs and phones) used disassembled Modos for their pager receivers; it was a lot cheaper than buying or building new parts. Three years later, Wideray is of course no longer using Mo
  • I'd love to RTFA, but all I get is a bunch of banner ads, and an invitation to join the "Always on Network".

    Did the poster mess up, or is this IE acting wonky?
  • by Bob McCown ( 8411 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:16PM (#7523846)
    Basically, the Wallflower displays are Web servers that appear on a Windows desktop as disk drives?you put one on your network and you can just drag pictures onto it, and call up its internal home page to manage its settings. Now you have a nice big electronic photo frame to show your digital pictures, and changing the display is as easy as typing a URL into your home computer.

    Sounds like a cool project. Anyone in the OpenSource community done one?

    • by DavidNWelton ( 142216 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:35PM (#7523999) Homepage
      The wallflower is pretty clever, with wireless code and a bunch of other goodies, so it would take quite a bit of work to replicate it.

      I created a floppy eCos demo called "Scivoli" that holds the OS + jpegs on a floppy. The OS + app only takes up about 120K so there is a fair amount of space left over for images. More than anything, it's a way to show off eCos... Get it at:

    • by Anonymous Coward
      Im working on one right now, PHP+webserver(apache)+Mysql (temp data storage, its 2 tables...) and a quick fullscreen javascript script.
      Put pictures on the server, it generates thumbnails and you can show image gallerys to people or create simple slideshows with crossfading (yes, javascript) (say this computer is under a stereo cabinet hooked up to a large tlevision [EG: plasma flat screen] and you have a laptop in the room with a wireless network connection)
      The laptop shows what the server is displaying, bu
    • Interesting how you seem to have skipped over the first sentence of that paragraph. Here it is, with emphasis added to the pertinant part:

      Mitch and Gordon's small team disassembled the machines, mounted the displays in handmade wood frames with the motherboard and hard disk, and added Wi-Fi and their own Linux-based software.

  • not even 5 minutes after being posted and it's already /.ed Mirrors anyone?
  • So if I hang out around SCO, when they go bust... what will I find?
  • If you actually read the article you'd already know this, but the startup referred to in the post is actually Wallflower [http://www.wallflower-systems.com/], not Roku.
  • by Karamchand ( 607798 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:18PM (#7523868)
    ..is off again.
  • into toilet paper would not be desirable. Everything from SCO is already full of feces.
  • by Mr. Flibble ( 12943 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:20PM (#7523881) Homepage
    A creative use of an LCD I suppose. I would really like to read more about it... However, it appears someone needs to dive their dumpster and recycle their bandwith from the slashdot effect...
  • by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:20PM (#7523890) Homepage Journal
    So far, the best thing I've gotten from the article is the link to RetroBox.com [retrobox.com], an outfit that buys old equipment from companies, wipes the HD, and resells them.

    My company used to have an annual old equipment sale for employees. It was so popular, you actually had a lottery drawing for line position -- like a rock concert. But when we got bought by the Faceless International Corporation Ltd, that was just one of the personal touches we lost.

    Hard to beat a $70 laptop... even if it does have a dark spot on the screen [retrobox.com]!
    • by CommandNotFound ( 571326 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @08:24PM (#7524645)
      Just to let you know, I bought my first box from RetroBox which arrived yesterday. FedEx put a small crack in the faceplate, but it works great. They cleaned it quite well... the keyboard and mouse look new. I'm using it as an X-Term to my big box downstairs. You can't beat $35 (they charge a flat shipping rate of $27.50) for a PII-350 w/ H/D, CD, and floppy.

      Just one data point, but they seem like a good outfit.
      • I'm impressed so far, too. I placed an order for the same basic PC you got -- PII-350 for $35. I didn't see a shipping amount when I was making the order, though, so I put a note in the "comments" box asking them to call me if the shipping was over $20.

        I got a call this morning, 8:40 central time. I wasn't in the office yet, so they said they'd hold the order until they heard back from me. Good service and great price... not much more I could ask for.

        Now, I've just got to find an easy newbie Linux ins
        • You can always dual-boot. If you're a newbie and just want to try it out, download the Knoppix iso and burn it to a CD. You can boot to a CD, and you can "anchor" your saved files and such to the hard drive (I think FAT drives can be used for this, too). It's amazing how much they can fit on a 650MB image. Knoppix has better hardware detection than any OS ever. I keep a copy around for a rescue disk and for detecting hardware for new installs.

          If she's a newbie but you're not, then it really doesn't
          • I keep a copy around for a rescue disk and for detecting hardware for new installs.

            This is going to be fun. I've got a PC in the shed that a co-worker gave me... it's got two hard drives and neither one seems to work. He and the tech guy here at work poked on it for a while before giving up on it entirely. I had no idea I could pop a CD in there and either get things going again in Linux, or at least use the CPU power.

            I think I'll put in an order at TuxCDs.com [tuxcds.com] (referenced on the Knoppix [knoppix.net] site) for a Kn
            • But I'll wait until Monday... see if any more Slashdotters come back with even more cool ideas I didn't even know were options.

              You've only scratched the surface of the cool things you can do with Linux. X11, the graphics subsystem used by Linux and Unix, is totally network transparent, so you can take a relatively slow box with a good video card and make it a dumb terminal (X Term) to a bigger box. Sort of like a mainframe, except graphical and with sound. My wife's first system was actually a used P1
    • Yeah. Actually, the article makes a good point - as OO.org, KDE, and Moz get more bloated, is there still effort being made on low-resource desktop linux software?

      And notice I say desktop. I know there are tons of useful servers you can make out of old boxen - but what if you just want a machine to plug into your TV set to run ZDoom and GLTron or watch Homestar anims?

      I've tried running a recent RedHat distro and it puts the screws even to a 2GHz machine. Is there any way I can get that level of ease-of
      • Debian, of course. The reason it makes a difference is the minimalist install - you don't by default have 4 or 5 daemons (paenguins?) monitoring hardware. You don't *need* automounters, either.

        I (and presumably thousands of others) am using Debian "sarge" on my P-166 server. You don't have to use old software to get the performance you want.

        Of course, once you install KDE3 or GNOME, all benchmarks are off ;)
    • If you're local to Central Ohio (or feel like driving), you can pick up purchases at their warehouse near the Airport on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons.

      This cuts out the shipping costs making RetroBoxes even more affordable.

  • by bigjnsa500 ( 575392 ) <bigjnsa500@@@yahoo...com> on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:22PM (#7523909) Homepage Journal
    I would like to RTFA, but as usual its /.'ed. Anyway, this the primary reason I keep around all my old unused computers and monitors. I don't want to take them to a landfil because of the chemicals in the chips, resins in the case, etc.. because it goes back into the ground.

    I remember seeing an short story on Discovery Channel about some place in Asia that is the dumping ground for all of the worlds digital equipment. It was quite scary seeing young kids waddling around in lord knows WHAT chemicals trying to get to the gold in monitors.

    A company could make a killing recycling computers. But into what?

  • by kavau ( 554682 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:25PM (#7523923) Homepage
    ...recycles old LCDs into cool and fun digital picture frames...

    I'd like to recycle my old notebook's LCD into a secondary monitor for my desktop. Does anyone have any ideas how one could do that?

    • It would cost almost as much for the stand-alone driver for the notebook's lcd than a lcd monitor bought at the store. But it can be done.
    • "I'd like to recycle my old notebook's LCD into a secondary monitor for my desktop. Does anyone have any ideas how one could do that?"

      Either use PCAnywhere, or XWindows, depending on your operating system, and run the notebook as a graphical client logging on to your main computer?

      I know, it's not as easy as plugging in the VGA cable. But you do get to use your laptop's video-card, rather than having to buy a new dual-head card.

      Alternatively, you could just use it as a second networked computer, if you
    • by freeweed ( 309734 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:44PM (#7524058)
      I picked up one of the nicest LCD screens I've ever seen from an old 486 laptop a while back. It's a neat little 9" job, perfect for a picture frame, secondary display, or what have you. So I did a little research on what I could do with this thing...

      Short answer: pretty much nothing.

      Long answer: The video hardware necessary to convert a VGA signal into the controls for an LCD panel is embedded directly into the motherboard. I suppose if you were enterprising enough you could play with a hacksaw and some FPGA's or something. Every website I could find repeated the same thing: proprietary interface, and no success for the most part. You're talking 50+ wires leading into the LCD panel, so even if you knew what you were doing (like a very few do - some have actually succeeded in this), it's still a LOT of work.

      Addendum: I've pretty much decided to just use the thing as a remote terminal window that I can mount over my bed, or somewhere else where I might want to get a shell but not have a computer handy. This is still going to involve a lot of messing about, and unfortunately the motherboard/drives/power supply will have to be included somehow, but I'm working on an extension cable to at least be able to have the display a few feet from the rest of the guts. We'll see how that affects picture quality - these wires are an insanely small guage, and I haven't been able to find the right spare plugs in case I screw up :(

      Anyway, best of luck, and if any other slashdotters have any ideas, please, share!
      • Yeah, I wanted to do the same thing as the grandparent post, but I never got around to researching it... Too bad.

        Once you get down to it, though, all these people basically did is rip the components out of a laptop, discard the laptop case, and shove everything inside a picture frame, copy Linux and a webserver, and call it a digital picture frame.
      • Couldn't you just remove the case, fold the ribbon cable the other way, so the mb is in back of the screen, instead of in front, and mount the whole thing in a picture frame. Just boot and run the photo as a screen saver.
      • LCD controllers (Score:3, Informative)

        As some posters correctly pointed out, you need an LCD controller interface to drive an LCD panel. It's possible you could get the correct controller for your panel from this page, which has a very good listing of LCD controllers [geocities.com] (thank you, whoever put it up). The controllers that have prices seem a bit expensive though - around $200 each.

        I read somewhere that VIA was going to introduce Mini-ITX motherboards with an LVDS (low voltage differential signalling) LCD interface - so it could directly drive an L
        • Woohoo! - (Score:3, Interesting)

          A google query for "mini-itx lvds" [google.com] shows this [diyaudio.com] as the first link.

          From the thread...

          I've found a few Mini-ITX motherboards with LVDS controllers. For those not familiar with Mini-ITX, it's a small form factor type of motherbaord. They are very quiet, and use very little power. CPU, Graphics, Audio, and LAN are all integrated.

          The cheapest one with an LVDS controller is $200. It's a 600mhz board, wich is decent enough for playing DVDs and most Mpg-4, and since the board has a PCI slot a TV card could be in
    • I'd like to recycle my old notebook's LCD into a secondary monitor for my desktop. Does anyone have any ideas how one could do that?

      The only way to do this would be some VNC type system using the laptop. Generally, you can't convert an LCD monitor into something that will take VGA inputs. The problem is due to the high level of intergration in the laptops, there is no seperate video card, its all bundled in.

      I suppose if you found who made the actual laptop LCD, and found what chipset was needed, you cou

    • I always wondered if there was some way to turn my old laptops into a display for headless boxes (i.e. servers) somehow via the serial port (basically the laptop would be a monitor/keyboard in one unit that I could drag around to the various servers). However you would probably need some kind of specialized doohicky that you could plug into the serial port on your laptop and then into the keyboard/mouse/vga on the server which would most likely cost a bundle.
      • For what you describe, the solution is easy, a lot of BIOS allow console redirection through serial. Even if yours doesn't, linux kernel and getty can be easily configured to use serial as console, in the POST-BIOS sense, you need to do it even if the bios redirects console, as once linux loads that console redirection typically goes away. It is quite convenient for the sort of thing you describe.
  • Hot damn! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:25PM (#7523928) Journal
    Frankly I can't see spending $500 for one of these things

    You really start to feel shit when you hear your laptop is worth more when broken instead of working. :(

  • Old Apple Laptops (Score:5, Informative)

    by G4from128k ( 686170 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:28PM (#7523941)
    Old Apple laptops make great picture frames such as this Duo hack described on Applefritter [applefritter.com]. All but the earliest Powerbooks supported color images and have some form of built-in networking.
  • Sorry, but the LCD screens that were likely on laptops relegated to the dumpster heap are probably way too crappy to be worth hanging on my wall. It's cool as a hack, but I sure wouldn't pay $500 for it.
    • im sure when they advertise it goes something like...

      "buy an old peice of crap laptop thats hacked up to be a picture frame" ...not

      the end user probably has no clue
  • Isn't this the second time this week alwayson has been /.'ed?

    Are the editors doing this on purpose? :)
  • Now when you see all those hundereds of CRTs in old sci-fi shows you'll know whey - some time in 2040 they started recycling 50 year old monitors and using them in space ships.
  • by nxs212 ( 303580 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:49PM (#7524093)
    You can't simply connect VGA or NTSC signal to an LCD panel. Click on the link above to read why and whether it's worth the effort.

    IMHO, Wallflower could have done the same with a small business loan. (and avoided wasting time buying junk from ebay, taking apart laptops,etc)
    LCDs can be bought from China for very little $, if you place a large order. (Thus the SBL)
  • by milktoastman ( 572643 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @06:52PM (#7524107)
    ever since the first small sized high speed electric motors with imbalanced rotors were picked up from the "rejects" pile at the manufacturing plant and turned into "personal massagers," we've had this kind of novel use of obsolete technology.

    Wow...what I just wrote isn't funny...should I delete it...Oh, go on and "troll mod" me for this misfire. I don't care.

  • I remember seeing the company name in the story when it was first posted. Now it says "new startup" with no company name. Maybe there was a conflict of interest with the frames Thinkgeek sells.

  • I did this some time ago (like the middle of last winter) with a Compaq Presario 1220 laptop, the result looked nice, and was "input-less" except for remote connections.. is anyone out there interested in pictures? If you are, I will see if I can dig them up and post them someplace "unslashdotable."
  • I have an old notebook that the screen has come detacted from (i.e. screen works, computer works, but two halves are now detached). It's even got a LinkSys wireless PCMCIA card!

    I wonder if Wallflower provides any sort of refurbishing service or kits to turn my "bruised but not broken" hardware into a WiFi picture frame? If not, might be an additional revenue stream/modified business model to think about, eh?
  • by Embedded Geek ( 532893 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @08:25PM (#7524653) Homepage
    There's an organization called Freecycle [freecycle.org] that does a (nonprofit) variation on this theme:

    The Worldwide (!) Freecycle Network is open to all cities and to all individuals who want to "recycle" that special something rather than throw it away. Whether it's a chair, a fax machine, piano or an old door, feel free to post it. Or maybe you're looking to acquire something yourself! One constraint: everything posted must be free.

    The site is organized by cities and most of the chapters seem to be yahoo groups, so you can't do online browsing (now there's an idea for Ebay: a "free to a good home" service for nonprofits [subject to verification and limited so as not to dent their cash flow, of course]). Still, it's a neat alternative to the landfill.

  • by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @08:30PM (#7524678) Journal
    The summary is not quite accurate. According to the article practically the entire notebook was reused, not just some "old LCDs". They more or less converted the (old but unused) notebooks' form factor into a wooden frame layout and added a $30 WiFi PCMCIA card. I would assume they removed the keyboard, battery and CD-ROM / floppy drive, but kept all of the rest of an already whole sytem. So they would be saving far more than just the cost of a new LCD per unit.

    Also, purchasing a couple hundred old but unused notebooks of one specific model in bulk is hardly dumpster diving.

    Yes, they were able to undercut the competition by utilizing a rare low-cost resource, thus "suceeding" in an existing market. But how does that translate into future business success now that they have to compete on a level playing ground with their competitors?

    Dan East
  • Fun? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Call Me Black Cloud ( 616282 ) on Thursday November 20, 2003 @08:49PM (#7524800)
    recycles old LCDs into cool and fun digital picture frames

    Aha! A shill! No one uses the term "fun" to describe things like picture frames unless that person is in marketing. Admit it...you work for the company. Either that, or...

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
  • Is this the LCD picture frame project from this cool linux projects [amazon.com] book? I guess this is as close as a mirror so far...
  • I think we've killed them. The server's unavailable for me. Although all your posts do make it sound quite exciting.
  • I thought that was searching through peoples dumpsters looking for information that "wants to be free" such as credit card slips/bank statements....

    On reflection perhaps the anonymous button was a good one to press...
    • For some of us, it's more like a method of furnishing our homes, decorating our walls and when things get really bad, finding the "refrigerator crate of our dreams" to keep the rain off.
    • most reciepts don't have the full credit card number anymore.

      dumpster diving is done for many resons but by definition it involves a dumpster (and no money). this article is about thrifty spending.

      i dumpster (dive) most nights for food. the best places are bagle shops/bakerys and health food stores. supermarkets have too much nasty stuff like meat and crab legs (i swore off supermarket dumpsters after blindly sticking my hand into a bag full of crab legs). at the end of the school year i dumpster
      • Personally I haven't done much dumpster diving, but my younger brother, who is still in college, goes all the time.

        According to his stories, his plan of attack goes like this: Find a nice area of town, where there are lots of national retailers in a new shopping center. (He calls these Giant-Land, since all the stores tend to be friggin huge.) Look for the bigger stores (i.e. Wal-Mart, Target, Bed Bath and Beyond, Crate and Barrel, Pier One, etc..) and drive around to the service side. Make a note of w
  • as an avid dumpster diver, i must say that it does not involve, in anyway, buying lots of laptops from companies.

    i found a paintball gun the other day. just wanted to mention.

  • I run the computer lab where I work. And before I get rid of any old computers or computer parts I always offer them up to the people I work with. Many of the computers we now get rid of make great second computers for kids to do their homework on or to access the internet with.

    Our company actually has to pay to have our stuff recylced so this way I save the company money and I get to help some people out.
  • My entire company lies full with old PAlm V's and their desktop cradle. What I'm dreaming about is hooking them permanently as a second screen that can show (B/W) pictures, show the text of the last received email etc.... Unfortunately, I have no idea how to program a Palm. Is anything similar out there?
  • This is something I've been thinking of doing for a while - all you need is a minimal OS install on the laptop (enough to provide a graphical display and networking) and an app that'll do a continuous slideshow of the images in a given directory (either local or remote)

    I've been using this screensaver [ucr.edu] on my Desktop PC (Windows, I'm ashamed to admit), which is a clone of the screensaver in OSX (does nice zooms and fades between your photos)

    Then you just dismantle the laptop, fold it up so the keyboard can
  • by dazedNconfuzed ( 154242 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:04AM (#7527380)
    A whole bunch of old unusable computers were piled up in the warehouse floor at work, well-known the company would soon pay to have them recycled. Imagine my shock when, upon taking a few back to my desk to re-assemble into a working box, the two of us doing so were suddenly accused of transgressing HAZARDOUS WASTE LAWS! Caught on tape and chastized by four layers of management, we learned the hard way that creative and conciencious recycling of junked computers is now a FEDERAL OFFENSE.

    Ya see, there's enough nasty stuff (lead, mercury, etc.) in a computer that, while not a concern when normally used, it suddenly acquires the HAZARDOUS WASTE label when the computing resources department deems the machine unuseable. Once declared unusable (broken hard drive, scratched display, whatever) and tracked for recycling, the federal government declares it HAZMAT and requires a chain-of-custody paperwork and handling so strict that one faces $100,000 fines and felony-level jail times for merely taking it from the trash pile.

    In Medievial England, stealing garbage from royalty was a hanging offense. That sentiment has returned: just trying to revive a dead computer to improve your work resources can get you fired, even jailed.

    Be careful of "creative recycling" and "dumpster diving". You're trying to save some old hardware, the feds think you're criminally evading the HAZMAT laws.

    • The solution is to get to the machines slated to be junked before the company starts tracking them.

      Find out who in your company is responsible for those boxes, then see if you can negotiate some way for you to recycle them. I've done it here at a large Fortune 500 company and made a couple of old junkers useful machines again. You might even be able to write off the time spent fixing them if you then donate those boxes to a charitable organization (check with a tax professional before doing so).
  • I've done this now about 4 times, using old laptops and it really does get some great coments when people see it on your wall...

    A friend of mine has been trying to get me to sell these things but I don't want to support them!

    maybe if I get some time I will put together a howto, as I've discovered a lot of things in doing it...

    You definitely don't want to take the entire laptop apart, it's easiest just to remove the screen from it's hinges and flip it over and remount it in it's own hinges, then mount the

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