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Building A High-End Gaming Workstation 332
Alan writes "What's the best platform for playing games *and* doing work? That's the very question FiringSquad tries to answer in the sequel to last year's short but popular workstation building article. This time, they've went with a "no-budget, but don't waste money" approach. There are a dozen products reviewed in the article, some never before reviewed on the 'net, and this time, there's no system building detail left untouched. Discussed are AC line conditioners, 2D graphics performance, and more. This more than 12,000 word article is the most detailed article ever in its genre. "
Windows, hands down. (Score:5, Informative)
I like to dual-boot some random linux distro for when I need good old-fashioned CLI goodness that I can't get from DOS, but I mostly stay on Windows.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
Are you really going to look through (and understand) every line of code in RH9? ... Open Source by itself doesn't solve your distrust problems.
Very true - Open Source does NOT guarantee security. Using closed source, however, means that you have to trust the entity producing the software. Open Source means that the software can be independantly audited.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
Is anyone else stuck buy the self-cancelling nature of this description?
Laugh time!
I guess if you are going to strech the idea of a workstation this far, then you can probably call a Windows computer a workstation with a straight face.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:5, Funny)
Just like Bus Station or Train Station.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, If you head towards Earth from Remulak 7, the Space Station is the last "stop" before you enter the atmosphere.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
[sigh] An ever-so-true comment. Well, the state of Linux gaming is slowly being improved from a global standpoint (though the setback of having Loki go under definitely sucked).
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:3, Funny)
I suppose it fits with "windows productivity"
good luck though.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
This is informative? (Score:2)
If all I cared about was Java games on Yahoo!, then, well...
Solaris is the best platform for games, and you can do just as much work with it as you can on any other platform.
No dual booting requried there! And scales to 128 CPUs without breaking a sweat.
Never mind that the article doesn't even venture into this territory. Tsk tsk.
Can I get an amen?
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
And for the person who called the above FUD, read the journal entry. It lists a whole lot of reasons why Windows offers a better desktop experience than Linux and at the bottom has some suggestions on how to improve the Linux experience - although the journal entry is now over six months old.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:4, Informative)
This guy is a 100% point-and-clicker. He percieves that others prefer a CL environment and wants people to think he's hip to the CL. But to use Linux just for a CL, well, that's about like sitting in your car in the driveway to listen to the radio. You can listen to the stereo in your house just the same. And it's silly to just sit in your driveway listening to the radio when you could be driving around.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
Just about anything involving file manipulation by regular expressions. I know that there is Cygwin and I know there's even a grep/sed/awk implementation for plain old Win32, but in my experience these are buggy, and their differences from the [U|(Li)]n[i|u]x versions, while small, are very annoying at least to me.
Re:Windows, hands down. (Score:2)
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people usually don't have the $ for the 'latest and greatest' hardware. And by the time they can afford the lastest whiz-bang video card, it's already outdated.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
I agree. Don't buy bleeding edge hardware *or* software. Software that's been out 18 months or more hasn't gotten worse in quality, and it's a whole lot cheaper to run and more reliable (from bugfixes). Sometimes expansion packs start getting bundled.
You gotta know what to shoot for. (Score:5, Insightful)
2) Search forums about hardware that is equivalent to but slightly underclocked and sells for 1/2 as much
3) Ignore the $200 keyboard/mice recommended, LCD, silent DVD-ROMs, etc. and get unbranded Taiwanese OEM manufacturer's product line wherever possible.
4) Wait 4 weeks for shipping instead of going to retailers.
5) Assemble, overclock, pray, sacrifice old RAM sticks.
6) Enjoy near-equivalent machine for half to third price.
7) ???
8) Profit!
Most high-end games suck (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
I agree though, that the vast majority of "high-end" games suck ass.
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you think any game company today could make a profit or even stay afloat if they made SNES-level games today? While I agree that a lot of newer games are mostly fluff, let's not sweep the entire market under the rug in favor of Double Dragon and Rad Racer.
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
Also, don't forget that the PC game market is so make-or-break to developers today (do to the almost insane expectations of users who want everything to be shiny and big-budget-looking), that they
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
I'll second this. I started with Atari and I still consider the SNES the all around best game platform that ever existed. The most good games on a single console were there. Truly the golden age. ZSNES [zsnes.com] keeps it alive for me even today. I've never stopped playing SNES. Gotta get my FF4/5/6
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
Nintendo has been re-releasing many of their SNES games for the gameboy advance, and making a lot of money off of it.
I'd love to play a new sprite based, 2D game again. I'm playing FF6 right now, and am really enjoying it despite its age. With the memory space available nowadays these games could have larger environment, more characters, more music and a bunch of good dialog. Unfortunately
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
Bingo. I think you hit a valid point there.
[Gaming Industry]
Fun? This is a business, dammit! If you don't have features X, Y, and Z, then you can't compete. And after we code X, Y, and partially implement Z, then we're out of money and don't have time to code "Fun" into the game. Oh well, maybe we can implement "Fun" in
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2)
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:3, Insightful)
I understand your need to troll, sir, and well - count me as your "catch" for today. But I will still name some titles that in my opinion obliterate your thesis: "Deux Ex", "Max Payne", "Return To Castle Wolfenstein", "Medal Of Honor", "Red Faction", the whole "Tomb Raider" series.
And no, I'm not just a kiddo who started gaming. My private "golden era" were th
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2, Insightful)
1. Remove Quake
2. Insert current "high end game"
3. Repeat
Re:Most high-end games suck (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow 12,000 words (Score:2, Insightful)
What is this, high school?
These articles make me laugh. Please, all you "computer experts", go out and buy the most expensive, cutting edge hardware you can find. You absolutely need to spend $5000 to play video games, don't doubt the marketin^H^H^H detailed articles validity.
These folks are the ones who piss away their money, so folks like me can get useless and obsolete hardware, like the terribly out-of-date Radeon 9700, for cheap cheap cheap.
Re:Wow 12,000 words (Score:4, Insightful)
I am sure more people would find an article useful if it was written from a somewhat realistic viewpoint. He says "I'm paying careful attention not to waste any money either" in the beginning of the article. But if spending $40 on an "incredibly well-built USB aluminum knob that acts like a super scroll wheel" with "a pulsing blue LED light at the base of the unit" is not wasting money, I don't know what is.
Re:Wow 12,000 words (Score:2)
It's a useability godsend for certain things. I really miss it when I'm in work. Besides, against the other hojillion dollars they spend on this setup, $40 looks like a bargain.
Re:Wow 12,000 words (Score:2)
I'll go with, "I don't know what is." You have no clue. The useability gain from a quality mouse is of as much value as a couple hundred mhz on your CPU, easy. The only reason people ignore the peripherals is because they are stupid. If you care more about speed than ease of use, your going to have an unc
Re:Wow 12,000 words (Score:2)
1) For $40 I can set up a whole computer that would be great for a lot of cool if a bit old games.
2) This is (especially with a pulsing blue LED) a good illustration of the overall attitude of the article - buy lots of shiny expensive things.
T
Pissing away money (Score:5, Insightful)
You should thank those people, not complain about them. If they have the money to spend, why shouldn't they? Good for you that you can save money and still get a great system.
Re:Wow 12,000 words (Score:2)
I look at it a little differently...
A few YEARS back, I got myself a P4 1.4, latest gforce2gts, scsi 160 and an 18 gig drive.
The SCSI drive is dead, replaced by cheaper but higher capacity IDE's. The rest of the system is still intact.
The only game I really play alot is CS, so for me this system suits my needs just fine. In a few
The perfect oxymoron... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The perfect oxymoron... (Score:2)
Re:The perfect oxymoron... (Score:2, Funny)
hey, i'm on linux - i'd settle for a working gamestation.
Hard Disk (Score:2)
Rus
Re:Hard Disk (Score:2)
Re:Hard Disk (Score:2)
Rus
Re:Hard Disk (Score:2)
only very large file transfers manage a benefit, on the order of several hundred meg. and thankfully i can still count on one hand, the number of games and situations where i need to squeeze another second or two out of a 200+ mB file transfer.
given o
Re:Hard Disk (Score:2)
Now, if you don't mind rebuilding the system everytime a drive fails, that's your prerogative. However, if
Re:Hard Disk (Score:2)
A few rebuttals to your comments here.
Recovering data from a partially failed disk is doable. Recovering data from a totally failed disk is not, unless you're willing to pay the nice folks at a data recovery service lots of money. Recovering data from a stripeset with a failed disk is more in the latter category than the former. RAID does affect how hard it is to recover data.
Hardware RAID controllers are wonderful, and they buy you roughly nothing for RAID0. Without p
its not hardware, its skill (Score:3, Insightful)
nothing like getting owned in counter strike, by my clanmate on a dialup with a crappy video card, while i was on a cable connection with a gf2.
Up next... (Score:2)
What about budget systems? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What about budget systems? (Score:2, Informative)
They do a monthly guide [sharkyextreme.com] to building a value gaming rig.
If you've got more cash to blow, they also do a high-end guide. [sharkyextreme.com]
Re:What about budget systems? (Score:5, Informative)
AMD Duron 1300 or slowest/cheapest Athlon you can find
Any cheap Socket-A mobo with AC97 sound and LAN onboard, like the ECS K7S6a or Epox KH8a+
A nice quiet harddrive - cue the Seagate 40GB Barracuda
Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 2 - large slow CPU fan that's almost totally silent
Any noname nvidia Geforce 4MX board with 64 megs. Most of them have passive cooling = no fan
256MB DDRAM
Use your old monitor or get a new 17" CRT, they'd be practically free if it weren't for shipping and handling.
Add a floppy, CD-ROM and some cables in a Q-Tec smileycase, a Trekker mouse and a noname keyboard and you have a complete, brand new machine for peanuts
This box runs CS perfectly and even bf1942 in a reasonable screensize. No weird drivers either which means very good Linux support. I have built maybe 20 of these for customers, both office and home use. It's dead quiet, too. It has just the one fan in the PSU and the ones Q-Tec use are reasonably silent.
And everything's upgradeable. Need more RAM? Just add some more when you have the money. Disk? Put it in. Faster graphics? Swap the old one out. Better sound? Get an SB Audigy 2 Player and disable the AC97.
Re:What about budget systems? (Score:2)
1. AMD Athlon XP CPU's are so cheap nowadays you might as well get a 2000+ to 2400+ CPU.
2. Forget about using a GeForce MX400 board. You're better off getting the boards that use the ATI Radeon 9000/9000 Pro chipset (I'd would rather splurge a little for a board that uses the ATI Radeon 9600 chipset, if only to play games that use DirectX 9.0 reasonably fast).
3. You really want 512 MB of system RAM, especially if you're running the latest games. Most of the new
Re:What about budget systems? (Score:2)
Careful when suggesting "Any" motherboard; again, the better boards don't cost a whole lot more (and often are one of the cheapest when you're looking at popular tried-and-tested stuff), but you'll be glad for the extra stability and support. You won't go wrong with Epox, though
HD wise, 80-120G is about the best price/size wise, and won't cost a lot more than 40G. 80G is still a single pla
Re:What about budget systems? (Score:2)
It's about 3x faster than my old geforce 2mx (1980 vs. 650 FPS in glxgears, if that measures anything significant).
Re:What about budget systems? (Score:2)
Article is already Slashdotted, but lemme guess... (Score:4, Insightful)
Step 2: Put them together.
Step 3: l33t box that gets 1,000 FPS in Quake 3. Not surprisingly, this box will also run just about every other Windows app there is well.
Cost of exact same system next year: $500.00
high end workstation? (Score:2)
Re:high end workstation? (Score:2)
Next on their list: (Score:2)
Each to their own... (Score:2, Insightful)
An Xbox for gaming. 130
A cheap desktop for everything else 500
internet/email/netty thing, IM doesn't need power.
Office
Web Design
Perl/Java/C/whatever
None of the above need lots of computing power.
630
Beats any 1000+ machine for work and games.
and you can do both at once... leave the compiles running and watch them while you play Splinter Cell.
Re:Each to their own... (Score:2)
Ars Technica System guide (Score:5, Informative)
of course, with multi panel screens, and other pricey toys, etc. it is possible to go slightly bonkers.
God Box = Dual G5 (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:God Box = Dual G5 (Score:2)
Re:God Box = Dual G5 (Score:2)
An excuse (Score:2)
Re:An excuse (Score:2)
That said, I always get a kick out of people who get the latest whiz bang graphics accelerator and then turn off all the special features when they go online to play.
Get a time lag discount. (Score:2)
Just wait 5 years and you will be able to buy any fancy system used for $250.
Re:Get a time lag discount. (Score:2)
My take on "gaming workstations" (Score:3, Insightful)
A whole lot of the free software the author is enjoying on Linux also runs on MacOS X. There is way more commercial software and games for MacOS X than for Linux (less than for Windows, but then you'd have to run...Windows). The G5s should be ideally suited to scientific computing with the Altivec vector instruction set. The only nit with the G5s is not supporting ECC memory. Apple should do that, as an option.
Re:My take on "gaming workstations" (Score:3, Informative)
I guess you aren't capable of comprehending the difference between "option" and "required". Many PC motherboards support both registered and unregistered and non/ECC memory. Understand now?
There is NO reason a consumer desktop/workstation needs ECC memory -- Servers, yes; but the G5 is a friggin' desktop!
Uh, "consumer worksta
Audience (Score:2)
Seriously, what percentage of even the gaming community (let's not even count joe average, mum & dad or corporate users) does this actually cover? Now disclude all the writers who work for gaming/hardware review sites and are just angling for a "demo" of the latest hardware and just how many are you left with? I'm sure there are exceptions, but come on, gimme a break
One year behind the cycle (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:One year behind the cycle (Score:2)
a geforce 3 and a copy of Unreal or Unreal tournament is just as fun as UT2003 on the best hardware you can get. the game is no more fun, no real difference (I MISS MY SNIPER RIFLE!)
the other "hot to play" games right now are no different... it's a run around and shoot everyone else. RTCW enemy territory is a bit different in that team play is more fun and you cant get some jerk running around arming himself to the teeth so he can do the suicide rambo running around with the tr
Please spare me the marketing fluff (Score:2, Insightful)
Hi, my name is. . . (Score:3, Funny)
Things just keep on getting better since I took back my time! My head is much more clear. I read more and my thinking is sharper than ever before. I have a girlfriend now, my skin has cleared up, and I'm doing much better at work. I feel healthier and stronger than I have in years. I am engaged in more active, outdoor pursuits, and I've taken up the guitar. The amazing part is that I didn't set out to do any of these things; they all just came to me naturally as my free time opened up and my mind sought alternative outlets so that I wouldn't be bored. It's like how it was when I was a child and there were no video games. I couldn't have done any of this without such a supportive group to help me through the hard times. Thank you!
If only I could have back all those thousands and thousands of wasted hours. .
-FL
Re:Hi, my name is. . . (Score:2)
All that wasted time... (Score:3, Funny)
So many wasted hours...
Two Separate Machines (Score:3, Interesting)
It's just too distracting to have "Quake 3 Arena" on your Start menu next to "Microsoft Word" when you're supposed to be writing your TPS reports. The machine that I work on has only the bare necessities to work, and no distractions.
On that note, I have to recommend Windows or Mac OS X for your work machine. There is way too much temptation when I'm working on a UNIX box to spend hours hacking around. For the gaming box, maybe a dual boot of Windows and Linux will suffice, with WineX on the Linux partition.
Re:Two Separate Machines (Score:2)
At any rate, this wasn't a gaming/office machine that they were building, it was a gaming/workstation. In my world (and I believe the world of the article's authors), a workstation is a seriously robust, high-end, number-cruncher. If you need a workstation and want to play game
Folks, workstation != office PC (Score:4, Informative)
1) An office PC. Runs some office package, web browser, acrobat reader, etc. a P3/800MHz with a low-end graphics card is FINE for this.
2) A gaming machine. You all know what this is.
3) A workstation. This is NOT the office PC. This is a serious machine for serious work--CAD, 3D modelling, number crunching, etc.
The requirements for a workstation and a gaming machine are similar but not identical. A workstation may have slower graphics, but accurate. No fudging or edge-blending to make things look prettier (or run faster) at the expense of mathematically correct representation. A workstation also is likely to have multiple processors, since they can be fully used by most software packages one would be looking at.
Can't be done. (Score:2, Interesting)
What does your PHB care about most - your ability at your job, or your mad crazy DOOM II skills?
Anyone hear or try these systems? (Score:2)
Their monitors look killer too...
Go-l [go-l.com]
I love how they break up articles nowadays. (Score:5, Funny)
[Next Page]
going to build a
[Next Page]
High-End gaming
[Next Page]
PC using expensi--
[Next Page]
ve and in-expensive
[Next Page]
parts.
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Re:No way (Score:2)
Are there any flight-sims on consoles? How about strategy-games? FPS with controls that match keyboard/mouse-combo? No? that's what I thought.
Consoles are OK for some types of games, but they absolutely suck for some others. PC's excel at some genres are are at least OK in the rest.
Re:No way (Score:3, Interesting)
> strategy-games? FPS with controls that match
> keyboard/mouse-combo? No?
Yes! Well, granted you're not going to get a really in-depth flight-sim on a console without some kind of dedicated controller (the Steel Batallion one for the Xbox could probably be reused in a flight-sim quite effectively) or a radical rethink of the control system... but then how much does a qwerty keyboard resemble the controls of a flight deck? Anyhow, Pikmin has demonstr
Re:No way (Score:2)
fps controls for consoles are absolutely fine.
i play unreal championchip on xbl and i play ut2k3 on my PC. there's very little difference.
yes, it takes time to get the hang of. but so does circlestrafing with wasd. and all the action games have sensitivity settings for the analog sticks that bring the speed and accuracy up to the same level.
yeah, a mouse is more precise. but when i'm playing on a 50" hdtv, relative precision is easily comparable.
furthermore, one huge a
Re:No way (Score:2)
What a marvelous troll. Try this on for size, sir. When I buy, yes buy, my console games, I go to great lengths to rip the data onto my hard drive then play them using an emulator. Why? Becuase I'd rather play my console games on the PC than on the console. Here's what I can do on the PC that I can't do w
Re:No way (Score:2)
because some of us are doing stuff other than "loading Office quicker"?
Re:No way (Score:2)
Re:Building a High-End WHAT?!? (Score:2)
I hear you, but then I thought of Penny Arcade, or any other decent game reviewer.
Re:Building a High-End WHAT?!? (Score:2)
This review is exactly what I have been doing lately. I am thinking about getting a dual opteron (probably just opteron 242's though - like I said not much cash) because I can play games on it - AND do development (I do a lot of compiling and dual CPUs would help out a lot).
Not too mention that I do all of my development
Re:Best for gaming AND doing work? (Score:2)
You're probably right - how did you get modded down?
Re:Save yourself the hassle... (Score:2)
Eg: my latest computer, I bought piecemeal; ended up with an Asus Nforce2 (400 Mhz FSB) motherboard, 2500+ Mhz Athlon Barton (actually speed: 1833 Mhz), 120 GB HD, 1 gig of 400 Mhz RAM, and a 256 MB GeforceFX card. Along with everything else new but a monitor, and it came in at just over $600.
I did some research, but not an extensive amount -- certainly not anything at the Tom's Hardware level.
Pricing
Re:Gaming System Suggestions (Score:5, Informative)
Why on earth do you consider a high speed hard drive important? Games are one of the few things that generally *don't* hit the hard drive while running.
Get a regular ol' hard drive (granted, it's hard to *find* 5400 RPM anymore, though I tend to prefer 'em for the sound levels and the lack of heat.).
Get at least 512MB of RAM to avoid paging instead.
Graphics card is next, get a OEM version of one of the later Nvidia chipsets and you save a boat load of money and still have good performance, you should get at least 128MB of RAM on the video card
Here I agree with you.
CPU speed doesn't have to be the latest one out, right now your best bet is to get at least a 2.4GHz with a 800MHz front side bus, that way you will have hyperthreading and the operating system will see 1 physical processor and say that you have 2 CPU's
2.4GHz AMD or Intel? Bit of a difference.
System Memory should be at least 1 GB nowadays @ PC133 MHz
I disagree -- I think half of this is acceptable. memory is quite easy to upgrade, and it's cheaper the longer you wait. If you're extremely adverse to upgrading RAM, then perhaps buying all now is a good idea.
Things that I consider important that the poster didn't:
* Decent set of headphones, unless you're hooking your computer to your nice stereo system. Headphones are *far* cheaper (I'd say roughly order-of-magnitude) for equivalent quality than speakers. They also give a better stereo effect. Aim for at least $80, and listen to 'em. You will lose some bass, unfortunately, which a lot of people like -- but if you live in a college dorm or play games at night, you aren't going to be able to shake the neighborhood anyway.
* Consider a CRT. LCDs are insanely popular right now, but have a lower refresh rate, look more jagged (due to their nice, sharp pixels) on things that aren't supposed to look jagged (like edges of objects), don't have as intense colors, aren't as bright, and cost more. LCDs *are* nicer for reading text, though.
* Consider a gamepad and/or joystick (for emulation). If you'll have friends playing, get a couple. The majority of PC games focus on the mouse/keyboard, but not all, and for games that can be played with these, it's awfully pleasant to do so.
* If you like FPSes, get a mouse with at least four buttons.
* Dual processors, lights, case mods, fancy sound cards, luxury input devices, wireless keyboards, etc are a waste of money. If you want 'em, fine, but there's no point in getting swept up in the "I'm spending $n, so I might as well spend $n+m" syndrome.
Re:Gaming System Suggestions (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Older Nvidia cards are NOT Dx9 compliant, which will limit their long-term viability. Contrary to the to
Re:Will any of these run Empire? (Score:2)