Four Core Processor to Bring Tera Ops 220
panhandler writes "As reported at CNet and the Austin American Statesman, researchers at UT are working with IBM on a new CPU architecture called TRIPS (Tera-op Reliable Intelligently adaptive Processing System). According to IBM, 'at the heart of the TRIPS architecture is a new concept called 'block-oriented execution"' which will result in a processor capable of executing more than 1 trillion operations per second."
Researchers ... (Score:4, Funny)
one trillion ops/second (Score:3, Funny)
Great.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, though, this will help break all the clustering records, provided we can come up with faster interconnects by then.
Re:Great.... (Score:4, Informative)
Sun is working on something along those lines, check it out [sun.com]
Re:Great.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I wish a company would throw out every idea from current memory, put a GB of cache on a chip, and get memory access times down to about 3 picoseconds. But memory doesn't have the marketing appeal that processors do, so we're screwed.
Re:Great.... (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is the larger the cache size, the slower the access time. It is a trade off.
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
The TRIPS team has solved that with NUCA.
Re:Great.... (Score:3, Insightful)
As a concept, this is hardly new. There have been all sorts of different parallel processing architectures over the years - SIMD, MIMD, strings, arrays, etc. Each has performed we
Memory (Score:2)
We know how to design faster memory, we've done it. Other than a few niches, the marketplace hasn't been willing to pay for it. So we're back to dirt cheap DRAM, because "It's what the customers want," or at least will pay for.
That said, there are inherent limits to reducing latency, mostly having to do with size. That's why L1 is the smallest cache, and L2 is a bigger cache. L1 is typically the biggest cache that can meet the fastest performance requirements.
Re:Great.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Or maybe IBM's MRAM will do this for us.
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
And, this is also exactly what Sun's program is aiming for. Highly-threaded processors can use latency to their advantage, by scheduling additional threads during the waiting period.
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
<plug>Western Digital hard drives are the best.</plug>
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
The width of the new 2500-pin DIMM's could have an adverse effect on case design however.
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
That's not necessarily true. There's no reason that I know of that requires RAM to be a long stick. Make it look like a CPU and you can have a square-shaped socket that has more pins/square inch.
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
While wide memory words are a real possibility to fix memory bandwidth in keeping processors appetites satisfied, nobody would seriously consider a 2500 pin DIMM.
Other possibilities suggest themselves. Your square 2500 pin arrangement might be one. A very high speed serial interface might be another.
Yet another possibility is that socketed memory might just go away completely. No really. As computers push th
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
Re:Great.... (Score:2)
Of course, I/O is quite a bit faster, but the simulated CPU is so much slower that it doesn't make a differe
And Windows 2005... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:And Windows 2005... (Score:1)
Re:And Windows 2005... (Score:2, Informative)
Things change plenty. Windows' boot times have been improving in recent years, esp. compared to the Win9x days.
I think you meant to make a crack about Doom III or something...
Re:And Windows 2005... (Score:4, Informative)
Windows 2000 - 45 seconds
Windows 98 - 1 minute
Linux + KDE 2 - 1 minute 10 seconds
(Admittedly linux + console is about 20 seconds, but that's not really a fair comparison - Windows 98 'text mode only', i.e. DOS, is only about 2 seconds).
Also, boot up time is largely IO bound. Improving your processor speed will make comparatively little difference (I think doubling speed might shave 10% off these figures, possibly more for the Linux one because the KDE issue is dynamic linking related which is a CPU problem).
Unfair comparison (Score:4, Informative)
Well, I don;t need postfix, Apache, Zope, MySQL, PostgreSQL and many other services at the moment of login. So, Win2k designers has recognized the it and optimized the boot sequence being oriented for a desktop user. In Linux we still keep a server-oriented mentality, that's why XDM/GDM/KDM/EDM is always the last thing to start.
Besides, Win2 boots some services in parallel, while in Linux we still boot all of them sequentially, waiting for [OK] string before starting the next one. The only way to paralelize the sequence is to track dependencies between services. In Gentoo there are some efforts to do the parallel boot.
But as for now, Linux is (by dfault) is oriented for servers, and GUI login is the last (ltterally last) thing you need on your server.
Re:Unfair comparison (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, I'll admit that I haven't parallelised it beyond this, but I wouldn't expect to see a huge amount of improvement from that. Besides,
How is Gentoo doing it? (Score:4, Interesting)
How are they doing it?
I've often thought that we should be booting up our computers with a parallel invocation of "make". Then when adding a new service you would have none of this "what number between 0 and 100 should I assign?" foolishness: just write a three line makefile that includes all the dependencies that your service has on others.
Re:How is Gentoo doing it? (Score:2)
Then why are we bothering with this System V rc directory structure that encodes dependency orders in the service start-up symbolic link? All that is required is to launch services with the same number simultaneously, and, bam, parallel booting.
Re:How is Gentoo doing it? (Score:4, Interesting)
Here's a modest proposal: if somebody has a Karma bonus, it should be clear that the person doesn't post intentional trolls or other useless crap. Don't subject those of us who actually try to consistently post useful information to these sorts of stupid filters. It only ends up preventing us from being helpful and informative and leads to the decline of the signal-to-noise ratio that it was designed to improve.
Re:And Windows 2005... (Score:2)
So what? Solaris 9 booting on a six year old workstation goes this fast after optimizing the rc directories. Also, most people wait for the hourglass cursor to go away in Win2K after logging in, anyway (I don't trust Windows enough to attempt work while it is still busy--that's just asking for trouble).
Re:And Windows 2005... (Score:2)
So what? Solaris 9 booting on a six year old workstation goes this fast after optimizing the rc directories.
The original AC I was replying to suggested that 5 minutes was common. I was pointing out the error of magnitude. Also, the fact is that Linux with a modern desktop environment isn't much better.
I wasn't saying 'wow, isn't windows fast'. I was saying 'look, there isn't a lot of difference between windows and a system of the kind that I guess you prefer'.
Also, the timin
Better link (Score:5, Informative)
Thank God (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Thank God (Score:2)
Only in the context of general-purpose processors. VLIW CPUs are common in signal processing and video cards. Perhaps the Itanic can become a $5,000 behemoth DSP chip for the next generation of 260-watt graphics cards. Perhaps they can put those rediculous SPEC scores to some use?
See The Project Yourself (Score:4, Informative)
Here [utexas.edu]
SCO's response: (Score:5, Funny)
We expect IBM to pay us 5 billion dollars plus 4 x $699 for each CPU sold"
Fabrication (Score:4, Insightful)
Imagine how high the failure rate would be with fabricating a CPU with four cores... I don't see how it would be practical unless it was with an extremely-high yield design such as the StrongARM.
Re:Fabrication (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Unit testing (Score:2)
Also, having the processor cores on different die(s?) would dramatically reduce the efficiency of communication between them, and would dramatically reduce the density of the resulting system.
Re:Unit testing (Score:2)
Re:Fabrication (Score:2, Interesting)
Naw, that doesn't seem like too big a problem. All they have to do is check to see how many cores are working, and then sell the chips like that. Something like this (assuming you pay a premium for more cores, relative to the lower yields):
$500 for 1 core
$1200 for 2 cores
$1800 for 3 cores
$2500 for 4 cores
Re:Fabrication (Score:1)
Re:Fabrication (Score:1, Insightful)
IBM: "Well, all our chips are made with 4 cores, but some of them get made broken, so we sell those for less as if they were only made with the number of cores that work"
Customer: "I wonder what Sun and Intel are up to these days."
Re:Fabrication (Score:1)
Re:Fabrication (Score:2)
Dude, ALL chips have defects. (Score:2)
Re:Fabrication (Score:2)
Re:Fabrication (Score:2)
Re:Fabrication (Score:2)
Only 32 Billion Now (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Only 32 Billion Now (Score:1)
Only on /. (Score:2)
Re:Only on /. (Score:2)
Except, they only get that on a fairly narrow range of problems (easily divided into four independant chunks, and heavily CPU bound rather than memory-intensive).
For some perspective, the newest P4s get 6.4 billion instruction per second, more if you consider the total possible SSE2 throughput. With standard number-inflation, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that this thing does nothing real
Oooh, can't wait for the G6! (Score:5, Insightful)
But this reminds me of a growing trend, and that is that as soon as large infrastructures are finally completed (be it the transition to OS X or 802.11b) the technology becomes obsolete. However, the entire infrastructure must be replaced. I don't care how many gazillion flops this or any other processor can pull. They need to easily scale so that the entire infrastructure does not need replacing.
Re:Oooh, can't wait for the G6! (Score:1)
Re:Oooh, can't wait for the G6! (Score:2)
Anyway competition is always a good thing, and you really don't have to move the infrastructure unless you have to. If Intel chips remain good enough, stick on to that, you probably will still be able to find support for that.
It's actually good to replace the infrastructure (Score:2)
A lot of the growth of the computing industry comes from making smarter and backwards compatible products. But look what it got Microsoft to make an Office version that is backwards compatible -- they had to use various other means to ram it down people's throats, because they didn't feel they needed to new version.
A large part of the turnov
Re:Oooh, can't wait for the G6! (Score:2)
It would make a lot of sense for those developing such systems.
- traskjd
Re:Oooh, can't wait for the G6! (Score:2)
Obviously, you are new to the computer industry, aren't you?
Re:Oooh, can't wait for the G6! (Score:2)
Backwards compatability is nice, but let's not forget forwards compatability as well.
We'll need a lot better compilers (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess one possibilty could be to execute instructions from four different processes simultaneously, thus reducing the probability that the instuctions will interfere.
Re:We'll need a lot better compilers (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:We'll need a lot better compilers (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that the word independent is the wrong one.
It depends on what sort of work you choose to do on this sort of beast, finite element work (simulations, etc) involves the same operation on lots of values over and over. This is how Cray made his money years ago.
This is not a desktop machine for you to do office automation on, quake maybe, but not word smithing.
Re:We'll need a lot better compilers (Score:2)
Re:We'll need a lot better compilers (Score:2)
Actually, some compilers can do it. They can break apart a user's program into multiple threads which execute in parallel, without the user giving any source code directives or hints.
Automatic parallelization, array disambiguation, loop dependence analysis, etc. are not new. Despite apparent dependencies in code between instructions, high-level optimizers can often do dependence analysi
Re:RTFA (Score:2)
Expensive (Score:1, Insightful)
First, they don't spend money reinventing the wheel. Second, hardware production failure rates are reduced because if an eighth of all cores fail, you don't average zero production. Third, most of the code is already written for multithreading with multiple processors. It would probably
Memory (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Memory (Score:2, Informative)
It appears that the only issue that would be solved is there would be less lag between processors--but at the speeds they're talking about, th
Just a warning (Score:5, Funny)
That is all
Re:Just a warning (Score:3, Funny)
Ooh, now I can sing soprano again...
Let me guess. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Let me guess. (Score:2)
Jeroen
It won't work... (Score:1, Offtopic)
But it's going to take more than a faster CPU to kick-start the IT industry in the West.
Right now, IT is a sunset industry, serving a market that is itself rapidly becoming extinct as entire business chains get automated in foreign countries. Within five years the famous Western IT industry will become a thin service layer reselling products (hard and soft) developed and produced elsewhere.
Building yet faster CPUs does not alter this. There is no way new generations of faste
Reimporting CPU's from outside the U.S. (Score:2)
Of course Americans will try to sneak over to Taiwan or use the Internet to buy cheap CPUs using purchase orders signed by unethical sysadmins. At that time, the director of the F
Re:It won't work... (Score:2)
How on earth can you claim this? I've been writing OSS for eleven years, what value have I destroyed? It is as meaningful as claiming that free energy or lower taxes or free transport would destroy value...
The fact is that cheaper technology is an inevitable consequence of any process of development, which is why you can today afford to throw away items like plastic drink bottles which were incredibly valuable only 50 years ago.
OSS
Cell (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Cell (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, and we'll get Bono Act II and DMCA II (Score:2)
Called WHoOPS (Score:2)
Lemme Guess... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Lemme Guess... (Score:1)
Re:Lemme Guess... (Score:2)
Re:Lemme Guess... (Score:2)
TRIPS?!? (Score:1, Funny)
Re:TRIPS?!? (Score:1)
But... (Score:2, Funny)
B) Run Quake 3 at an acceptable FPS
C) Take a slashdoting
D) Make my Coffee
E) Run Linux
F) Where is my flying car!?
I just wanted to say... (Score:4, Informative)
Hyper Threading Type existance (Score:2)
Rus
Block Oriented execution (Score:1)
hmmmmm (Score:1)
At what cost? (Score:2)
My fiance was pretty disgusted this year since she's a grad student and for the money's she's paying she does not expect a student to be teaching the class on day one.
In related news.. (Score:2)
. Its far to familiar to people outside the industry now and besides , it has somewhat negative connotations. With these new acronyms we can
once more confuse millions of people over the acronymns expected 10 year lifecycle and also it gives us plenty of bad in-joke
opportunities for our technical authors"
IBM can work with the Japanese (Score:3, Insightful)
Nothing new... just faster (Score:2)
I'd love to learn to program one... I just don't want to have to learn Verilog.
Manditory... (Score:2)
Another Link (Score:2)
Not just four (Score:2)
Re:It doesn't matter... (Score:2)
What are you on?