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Hardware Technology

Zalman TNN 500A - Complete Heatpipe Cooled Case 259

Posted by timothy from the industrial-music dept.
SlashCrunchPop writes "Zalman is about to release a completely fanless computer case based entirely on heatpipe cooling capable of keeping even the hottest CPUs cool. Cool silence, at last?" The article's in German, but the pictures speak for themselves.
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Zalman TNN 500A - Complete Heatpipe Cooled Case More

Zalman TNN 500A - Complete Heatpipe Cooled Case

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  • Excellent (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:45AM (#6742167)
    I have a computer in my bedroom that I keep on all the time. Lately I've been kept up at night by the fan noise. The noisy fan in my computer also posted a troll on Slashdot and killed my cat. Thus, I'm quite happy to learn that this problem is history. Soon I shall get rid of my noisy fan, and... *stab* Oh no! The fan got me! I'm going down!

    • Re:Excellent (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Zro Point Two ( 699505 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @06:53AM (#6742551)
      I actually like the sound that comes from the fans in my system. It has much the same effect on me going to sleep as white noise would have on most people.

      Or maybe it's just me....I mean, I am the one who moved right beside an expressway because I liked the dull sounds that come from cars rushing past while I am falling asleep.

      • You're not the only one. Personally, I have 2 computers in my room that run full time in addition to a ceiling fan and a 10" box fan. I sleep better when everything's running than I do in a completely quiet environment. I think in my case it may be related to my ADHD. If I'm in a quiet environment, my mind will constantly wander and I'll become restless. Having the droning fan noise kind of helps my brain to shut down and let me actually sleep.

  • Uber Sweet!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Trent05 ( 70375 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:45AM (#6742169) Homepage
    Looks like it could double for a space heater too!

    • Re:Uber Sweet!! (Score:4, Informative)

      by The Wicked Priest ( 632846 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @07:28AM (#6742829)
      They can ALL double as space heaters, regardless of the case/cooling system. Think about it -- the same amount of waste heat is always generated; it's only a question of how that heat is moved away from the hot spots in the system.

      It does look like a giant heat seak, though. I wonder how hot the case itself gets.

  • Heat Pipes 101 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:46AM (#6742171)
    For those of you who want to know [norenproducts.com]

    • Case Details (Score:5, Informative)

      by kaptink ( 699820 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:27AM (#6742305) Homepage

      PDF specsheet on the case => http://www.sharkacorp.com/pdf/TNN500A_Catalog.pdf [sharkacorp.com]

    • Re:Heat Pipes 101 (Score:3, Informative)

      by MegaHamsterX ( 635632 )
      Build your own heat pipe here [benchtest.com]
    • One problem I've seen with previous heat pipe implementations is that not only did it use a fan, they used the most obnoxious fan they could. Shuttle had "quiet heat pipe technology" on the sell sheet for their mini-PCs but it was the loudest computer in the store.

  • Maybe... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:46AM (#6742172)


    > The article's in German, but the pictures speak for themselves.

    Maybe it's like the SCO comments, and someone can translate it by substituting English letters for the German ones.

  • Time For BabelFish (Score:3, Informative)

    by asciimonster ( 305672 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:47AM (#6742173) Journal
    For the people who don't read German, here's [altavista.com] the page translated by babelfish... Which is, unfortunately readable at best...

  • Babeltry (Score:3, Funny)

    by BrynM ( 217883 ) * on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:47AM (#6742175) Homepage Journal
    It seems Babelfish [altavista.com] is learning prose
    "Which one is to there still say, a piece of cream of the superlative. There I get damp eyes."
    It sounds like a Peter Murphy [beggars.com] song or something. Anyone care to tell me what
    "Ja was soll man da noch sagen, ein Sahnestuck der Superlative. Da bekomme ich feuchte Augen."
    really means?

    • Re:Babeltry (Score:5, Informative)

      by panurge ( 573432 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:59AM (#6742214)
      "What can I say, it's the cream of the cream? It makes me go all emotional"

      The author needs to get out more. A lot more. In fact, he shouldn't be allowed indoors until he's had a cold shower.

    • "What can I say, the cream of* the superlative. It brings tears to my eyes.

      * This is an educated guess

    • It means:

      "Which one is to there still say, a piece of cream of the superlative. There I get damp eyes."
    • It really means something akin to:

      "What more is there to say, a collection of superlatives, makes me want to cry."

      Or something in this direction, the Babelfish isn't soo bad actually. Sahne is literally cream, but sometimes, like here, used to mean only "excellent"

    • Re:Babeltry (Score:3, Informative)

      by Florian ( 2471 )
      Translation (German original contains a number of colloquial expressions which don't translate 1:1 into English): "What can I say? A top-notch piece of engineering. I am drooling!"

    • Complete manual translation (Score:5, Informative)

      by Apogee ( 134480 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @07:05AM (#6742639)
      OK, this is the complete text translated (and I have to add, this guy gets *pretty* emotional about this case, and uses a lot of colloquialisms).

      Zalman fan-less PC

      Preamble:

      Finally, never-ending silence in the box. It took a long time for a product like this to be produced for the mass market. The manufacturer likely will be swamped by the large number of pre-orders. While its technical specs already convince us on paper, we are waiting for the first samples and pricing information. But one thing should be clear right away: The price will be way below any self-made constructions, since Zalman is known to specialize on uncompromising mass production. 6 heat pipes for the CPU and two more for the graphics card, as well as 10 for the hard disk should keep the system optimally cool. Let's look forward to it, and start saying good-bye to all these fans and noise makers right now. I hope it's christmas soon :-)

      Well, what more can I say, the cream of the crop. It brings tears to my eyes. More heat pipes (18 of them!!) and cooling elements than you ever wanted.

      Silence in its perfected form, since this is a completely closed case. The first PC case where also optical drives can be de-coupled and their noise dampened.

      More is not technically feasible!

      More silent is not possible!

      From october on, this case will be available at www.alternate.de

      So, start saving now!

      And of course, I'll keep at it. (I guess the author means he'll post updates)
      • "6 heat pipes for the CPU and two more for the graphics card, as well as 10 for the hard disk should keep the system optimally cool."

        What? Nothing for the power supply? It's hardly worth silencing the cpu fan when the biggest, noisiest fan is still whirring away.

  • You may check here for Building Silent PC's (Score:4, Informative)

    by Delifisek ( 190943 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:49AM (#6742182) Homepage
    http://www.buildsilentpc.com [buildsilentpc.com]
  • I like my CPU's hot! It gives me an opportunity to fry my breakfast in the morning.

  • Solid Copper pipes??? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NFN_NLN ( 633283 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:55AM (#6742198)
    Those pipes look like solid copper. It must be a pain to re-route them if you use non-standard sized components. Isn't there a flexible material they can use that will still withstand the heat?
    • http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=75390&cid=6742 171

  • The best thing is... (Score:3, Funny)

    by kinnell ( 607819 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @04:55AM (#6742199)
    It looks really evil

  • Looks cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zog The Undeniable ( 632031 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:05AM (#6742237)
    I'm sure it's just a form of one-upmanship. Look at that "hard drive cooler" - it's just a load of central heating microbore tubing, isn't it? I can't believe that's the BEST way to get good heat transfer, even though most IDE hard drives are perfectly happy without any cooling whatsoever. All those pipes really look as if they'd get in the way when you're trying to install an upgrade. And is it just me, or does that northbridge only have a passive heatsink? These things can get quite hot, and there's no airflow through the case.

    Air cooling still has plenty of mileage - bigger fans at lower rpm are what we need. I have two 120mm case fans running through a rheostat, and the noise is insignificant compared to the little 60mm CPU fan (no, it's not even a Delta).

    • Re:Looks cool, but... (Score:5, Informative)

      by GeekDork ( 194851 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:19AM (#6742289)

      [...] most IDE hard drives are perfectly happy without any cooling whatsoever.

      But they won't get old. Manufacturers and tests show that a relatively small (10K) increase in temperature can significantly decrease a drive's lifetime. There's not much needed to keep a consumer drive cool, though. A low-noise fan (80mm, 1500RPM) keeps the temperature of my drives so low that they don't feel warm to the touch while they get quite toasty without the airflow.

    • Those are heat-pipes (Score:3, Insightful)

      by hughk ( 248126 )
      Evacuated, but with a working fluid and a wick as a liner. It gives better heat transfer than solid copper. The idea is that it just dumps the heat into the housing, which happens itself to be a very large heatsink (at least the sides).

      IDE drives may not need individual coolers, but they definitely like significant airflow. As there isn't a fan, you need to be sure that they don't cook or cook anything else in the cab.

      As for airflow inside the case, yes there is still some because of convection. The air

  • Goes around, comes around (Score:4, Interesting)

    by panurge ( 573432 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:05AM (#6742238)
    Aber was kostet's?

    Reminds me of the high power PSUs we were building back in the early-80s for I-can't-tell-you-about-that applications. That was for 60V 50A DC-audio amplifiers. Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

    Even so, the limited convection of this thing is still wasted capacity. It would be better, and almost as quiet, to have a chimney round the back with the fins pointing inward, and a slow air stream from a large fan being sent up it. It could easily be as quiet as a hard drive.

    • a slow air stream from a large fan being sent up it

      But the whole point is not to have a fan.

    • Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?

      They don't. They usually go for pointless boring standard looking 'safeside' designs. In allmost every german household you'll find white-painted standard rough-texture wallpaper, for instance.
      It's actually all 'anti-design'. They only thing you can be shure of is that the german thing will allways be 3 mm thicker than all the rest. Check out german car chassis or german cups, saucers and dishes to see what I mean.
      Considering that, this case is q
    • Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?
      are you talking about the inside or the outside?

      I woulda thought they go for black in the inside because its a better conductor of heat.

      • Oh dear. No, it isn't. It's a better RADIATOR. And you know how hot the case would need to be before radiation was significant compared to convection? Tube temperatures rather than transistor temperatures.
    • Why do Germans still go for all-black, finned military chic?
      I can't comment on the military chic but black fins lose heat faster than chrome roundness.

  • But wait... (Score:3, Funny)

    by bluegreenone ( 526698 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:11AM (#6742258) Homepage
    The best thing about it is that it's big enough to live in.

  • Meassurements, Price? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:16AM (#6742273)
    Does it fit under my Desk?
    What does it cost?

    If both is under my maximum I want one!

  • Rough translation, hopefully better than babelfish (Score:5, Informative)

    by Henk Poley ( 308046 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:22AM (#6742292) Homepage
    "Zalman fanless PC

    Finally, it's told to us [uhm "(un)endliche Ruhe im Karton" means so much more though :-)]. It took long for such a product to appear on the mass-market. The manufacturer will be hardly able to produce enough to satisfy market demand. Though it's promising on paper we will now need to wait for priceinfo and more information. One thing is clear already, the price will be far below DIY construction sets, since Zalman is known to be specialized in mass production. The 6 heatpipes for the CPU, 2 for the graphicscard and 10 for the harddisk will keep the system as cool as possible. We are looking forward to this new Zalman case and hope to say say bye bye to our fans and noisemakers by Christmas.

    Off coarse I'll try to inform you about this in the future [ "Ja naturlich bleibe ich am Ball ..." ???]

    What's more to say about this thing, only creme de la creme superlatives will suffice. It makes you feel all soddy inside [ "Da bekomme ich feuchte Augen"]. Heatpipes (18 !!), and more heatdispensers than you will probably need.

    It will be perfected silence because the case is fully sealed. It's the first one where even optical drives will be decoupled from the case.

    Better is not possible!

    More silent is not possible!

    Due to be sold in october at
    www.alternate.de
    Maybe you should start saving money."

    • [uhm "(un)endliche Ruhe im Karton" means so much more though :-)].

      This refers to "peace/quiet [Ruhe] in the case/box".

      [ "Ja naturlich bleibe ich am Ball ..." ???]

      "Naturally I remain on the ball" - "On the ball" is a colloquialism that means "attentive" or "vigilant".

      It makes you feel all soddy inside [ "Da bekomme ich feuchte Augen"].

      "My eyes [Augen] get moist", i.e. "I am emotionally/spritually moved".

  • Save enery (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tsa ( 15680 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:29AM (#6742311) Homepage
    Maybe I sound very European when I say this but isn't it more sensible to try to reduce the amount of energy spent by the various components of the computer to minimize heat output?

    • Re:Save enery (Score:3, Flamebait)

      by NeuroManson ( 214835 )
      European? No. Ignorant? Yes. CPUs, no matter the heat limitations, require a certain wattage to operate properly and at the right speed. AMD and Intel CPUs both require between 300 and 450 watts of power to operate. That's equivilent to an all electric kitchen at the least. And in as such, they generate a huge amount of heat (in my own experiences, a 7200 RPM HD and my P4 1.5 Ghz is enough to keep my bedroom warm during the winter).

      If you don't like this, I suggest you move back to Pentium MMX 200-266, or

      • Re:Save enery (Score:3, Insightful)

        by tommck ( 69750 )
        AMD and Intel CPUs both require between 300 and 450 watts of power to operate


        Well, I have a PIII 600, an AMD Athlon XP 1900+ and a 19" Sony monitor running on a single UPS. It claims that there's only a 350 watt draw on it when everything is on and functioning. So, I think your numbers are a bit high.

        T

      • Re:Save enery (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Eivind ( 15695 )
        Your numbers are off by a order of magnitude. I suspect you're confusing the total max effect of the power-supply with the consumption of the CPU.

        Hint: The big box on your floor is not your "CPU". A modern CPU migth use 50 to 100W. There is no CPU in existence that consumes 300 to 450 watts like you claim.

      • Re:Save enery (Score:3, Informative)

        by Eivind ( 15695 )
        Actual numbers you can find at:http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_consump tion

        Some examples:

        • XScale 80321 600 MHz, 0.5 watts
        • Athlon XP 2200+, 1.65 V, 62.8 watts

      • Re:Save enery (Score:3, Informative)

        by phusg ( 699891 )
        Save energy -> here here!!! :-)

        Ignorant? Hmmmmm, very mature of you to say so. But anyway, we've all been a teenager:

        As has been mentioned you are off by an order of magnitude. I have a german widget which actually measures the wattage going through a plug. My nForce computer with Athlon XP2100+ uses in total 100Watts under full load and something like 95Watts when idling (which surprised me). My nForce2 with o/ced Athlon XP2400+ uses 150Watts under full load and again no less than 140Watts when idling

  • Heat exchanger. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Agent R ( 684654 )
    This would be a pretty handy device for those living on the eastcoast in the middle of winter. As someone mentioned above, it would make a dandy space heater. I agree. When I was still living in Boston, I left the several machines on my home network running 24/7 during the months of intense cold. Oddly enough my utility bills* was lower that year than the year before. (When I didn't have the machines running all that time.)

    *apartment was gas heated.
    • all in all it doesn't put more heat into the room than any other case. There's conservation of energy here, if you take two PCs of equal footing, one in a CoolerMaster 6-fan case and one in this fanless thing the fanned case will actually heat up the room MORE, because the fans themselves generate (some) heat. I think overall you can measure the amount of heat that a device will produce by measuring how much it draws from the power source, sinc ein the end all that juice is being turned to heat anyway.

  • A Question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by T-Kir ( 597145 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:32AM (#6742317) Homepage
    ...how much does this weigh? Would it fall through my wooden desk... the only guide I have to heatsink cases is the Mac Cube, which was a rather nice doorstop in the weight area.

  • English (Score:5, Informative)

    by heli0 ( 659560 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:34AM (#6742324)
    Here is some information in English

    Zalman TNN 500A - Complete Heatpipe Cooled Case [warp2search.net]

    From Zalman's site:

    7/16/2003

    Thank you very much for your fervent interest in Zalman's upcoming product.

    Q: What about the price?
    A: It is very likely that the official retail price of TNN 500A cooling system will be determined as about 900~1,100 US dollars.

    Q: Where can I buy it?
    A: Zalman's dustributors all over the world will have it stocked in the near future. When the time comes, contact Zalman distributors in your country by referring to 'Order' section on the upper right corner of this screen.

    Q: When (can I buy it) ?
    A: We are going to launch the TNN cooling system around September. Then, you will be able to order it via or to distributors in your country. Please be patient until the time comes. Thank you.

    Regards,
    Jinkook Kim/ZALMAN
  • this is case is freakin ugly, looks like a second hand washing machine

  • More info in English (Score:4, Informative)

    by MoZ-RedShirt ( 192423 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @05:44AM (#6742347)
    is available here:

    http://www.sharkacorp.com/pdf/TNN500A_Catalog.pdf [sharkacorp.com]

    RedShirt

  • Hmm (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mrselfdestrukt ( 149193 ) <nollie_A7_firstcounsel_com> on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @06:09AM (#6742404) Homepage Journal
    The article's in German, but the pictures speak for themselves.
    Sorry, dude. I don't understand german pictures either.
    Anyway, that's one big-ass heatsink. The think is.With a chassis like that , you'll probably end up just spreading the heat through your entire case instead of directing heat away from CPU, HD etc. I don't mind the noise. I'll keep my fans thank you.

  • Brilliant! Looks like I can junk some gear (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Chris Worth ( 18843 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @06:14AM (#6742419) Homepage
    I just counted the fans in my desktop, and amazingly came up with 8: CPU, PSU, graphics card, and 5 spread around the case. (A CoolerMaster) And I'm not even a cooling freak. This thing should reduce those decibels.

    Publish your ultra-short tales at espresso stories [espressostories.com].
  • If I had a dog with a face that ugly, I'd shave is arse and teach it to walk backwards... ;)

  • Misleading Article (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ripplet ( 591094 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @06:27AM (#6742457)
    Although the submitter got it right, the article heading says "Fanless PC".

    Let's see, where are the fans inside a normal PC? On the case sure. But also in the PSU, on the motherboard, and on the graphics card.
    Now maybe they have solutions for these, but this invariably means ripping off the supplied fans to fit the new heat pipes etc., thus completely voiding your warranties on those items. And if you just paid 400 bucks for the latest graphics card (which is by far the noisiest component in my current system), you might not want to do that!

    So, while I certainly applaud any step forward in the quest for silence, the case on its own is by no means the end of it.
    • So, you think we should ignore cars because current buggies need to be modified to accomodate them?

      Come on now... No new technology comes out, being supported by every compatible device on the planet.

      If you aren't willing to void your warranty (and don't know how to put a decent fan on your video card), that doesn't mean the rest of the world is doomed to live in a world of computer-fan noise.

  • The case is very cool (metaphorically) but looks like it will cost somewhat more than the innards of the PC. In that case, I would hope that it'd last at least 5-10 years, meaning several upgrades. Given that motherboard changes seem to make this pretty much impossible, I would rather buy a cheap case and stick the whole thing in a separate room.

    For notebooks, this looks like a good technology: notebooks cost more anyhow and you can't really stick them away in a room somewhere. Plus, most notebooks really suffer from heating issues, and an on-off fan tends to be more annoying than a constant hum.

    But best of all would be a way to turn excess heat back into power. Heatpumps of some kind?
  • I love direct translations of strange foreign langauge idioms

    Info.

    15.7..2003

    Zalman exhaustless PC

    Preface:

    Finally, infinite peace in the cardboard. It has for a long time to finally such a product in the mass-market appears lasted. The manufacturer will be able itself to hardly save from the many vorbestellungen. On the paper convincingly we wait technically already now on the first samples and price information. One might be now already clear however, the price far below all self's building Konstrukti

  • underwater PC? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mikevdg ( 579538 )
    Just an idea...

    Instead of blowing air around, putting hoses in your computer or using heat-pipes, would it be possible to submerge the whole motherboard and hard-drive in some non-electricity-conducting liquid? De-ionized water???

    Michael.

  • Fanless = dust free? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by slim ( 1652 ) <john AT hartnup DOT net> on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @06:53AM (#6742553) Homepage
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there's no air-cooling going on whatsoever, does that mean the case can be completely sealed against dust?

    I'm sure inhaling the dust that collects in computer cases is a health hazard, if you do it often enough.
  • I can neither speak nor read German. However, I can make sound judgments based on detailed pictures. I know a great deal about computer cooling systems. The detailed pictures are provided, so I will share my opinion.

    The surface area of the pipe is significantly diminished compared to other similarly designed systems. This leads me to believe that there will be much more "air heat". Fortunately, this shouldn't affect the circuitry.

    Another difference I picked up on immediately is the use of motor oil

  • Apple PowerMac (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rjstanford ( 69735 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @07:53AM (#6743035) Homepage Journal
    You don't really need to go this far to achieve silence. At least, not for sufficiently small values of silence.

    Check out the new Apple G5's cooling system [apple.com]. It uses a ton of ultra-quiet fans instead, moving high-volume low-speed air over the components. It puts out 35dbA, which is less than even a fairly quiet laptop fan these days.

    Now, admittedly the cooling technology isn't as creative, but considering that for $670 more than the estimated cost of the case alone here, you get a nice IBM 970 processor, hard-drive, OSX, and a lot of other goodies, that's really not a bad trade-off.

    And yes, I took the high end of the estimated case cost ($1100) and the cheapest G5 ($1770). But still.
  • Yes, it pipes all that heat away from the CPU, and right into the room with you. Cooling solutions are not the answer for the upcoming 100+ watt monster CPUs. So far there isn't a good answer.

  • Wow, that is the ugliest case I have seen in years. It doesn't even have a nice, clean industrial look. It's just ugly, really really ugly. Oh well, maybe I can hide it behind a wall or in a closet. But wait! if I do that, why would I care that it's fanless? :P

  • <translation>

    Zalman exhaustless PC

    Preface:

    Finally, infinite peace in the cardboard. It has for a long time to finally such a product in the mass-market appears lasted. The manufacturer will be able itself to hardly save from the many vorbestellungen. On the paper convincingly we wait technically already now on the first samples and price information. One might be now already clear however, the price far below all self's building Konstruktiuonen will lie, since Zalman is specialized in absolute m

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