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Wireless Networking Hardware

During Blackout, Ham Radio Shined 476

Mark Cantrell writes "An interesting bit on AP through Yahoo today. Seems that ham radio (which recently had a bit of backlash here on Slashdot from a few people thinking it was useless, outdated technology), really shined through during the blackouts. When the power went, ham radio operators, using battery backup power, were able to help coordinate emergency workers while the cell phone networks were overloaded. For anyone wondering why interference due to power line broadband is considered a bad thing, well, there ya go."
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During Blackout, Ham Radio Shined

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  • by Mawen ( 317927 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @10:53PM (#6740851) Journal
    ....Right, because when the power is out, those power lines sure generate a lot of interference.
    • by TWX ( 665546 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:25PM (#6741036)
      ...and you cause people to not get involved. Less involvement means that the system will fall apart.

      If no one is left using the technology because of problems under normal conditions, these people won't be there to save your ass when you need paramedics called and the phones don't work.
    • by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:25PM (#6741040)
      Calls out of a disaster area are often trying to get to an area that has not been hit by the disaster, and those areas could well be blacked out by the types of interference that was discussed.

      Also, there have been disasters that hams have been involved in providing services for where communications were greatly disrupted, but power was not out. September 11, 2001 New York city had a major communications disruption that hams played a very important part in getting health and welfare messages out of and across the city when the phone system was significantly impacted.

      But your post also shows an extreme shortsightedness. Do you expect hams to keep maintaining equipment and buying new equipment, and new hams to come into the hobby, if normally the RF interference is so bad that they could only use that equipment in the event of a massive power failure? When lives are lost because the ranks of the ham radio operators have dwindled because they were pushed off the bands (and they certainly have saved many lives) perhaps you can make your little joke again.

    • by iamroot ( 319400 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @12:02AM (#6741224)
      On a more serious note:

      A lot of people seem to say "Its much more valuable to have thousands of people get broadband internet access than to have ham radio. After all, most of the time, hams just chat and aren't helping with emergencies. Plus, powerline broadband would only affect HF."

      However, the general chit-chat that ham operators do IS valuable. Without it, ham radio would become worthless. People aren't going to buy thousand dollar radios "just in case" if they have huge amounts of interference to deal with so they can't chat. Similarly, would YOU pay for internet service that had 99% downtime? Furthermore, current operators will be less willing to keep an operational station if theres nothing to do with it. That radio will just sit in the attic, and if there's an emergency, too bad. Also, people aren't going to be able to do anything even if they have a working station if they haven't ever been able to practice.

      Its not that ham-radio is old and more reliable than newer technologies, its that nothing yet can easily replace ham-radio(try to think of something that really can), and seeing how the internet has been turned into a marketing/media tool, there may not be anything for a while. Ham radio is simple, long-range, portable, versatile/flexible, and most importantly, independant of other services.

      Cell-phone nets get overloaded with callers.
      The internet has no long range portability, and is dependent on physical networks.
      Sattelite phones are WAY too expensive and limited.
      Etc...
      • >> A lot of people seem to say "Its much more valuable to have thousands of people get broadband internet access than to have ham radio....

        You're correct to point out the folly of such opinions.

        First, it isn't much of a leap to suggest that expanding broadbnd capabilities plays to the financial and employment prospects of many, or most, Slashdot readers. They're hardly an objective, or even thinking, bunch,

        Second, DSL or cable access isn't going to do you much good when there's no electricity to p
    • by Stephen Samuel ( 106962 ) <samuel AT bcgreen DOT com> on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @01:18AM (#6741506) Homepage Journal
      It's not the power in the power lines that generates the interference, it's the broadband signal (which, I'm sure, can run without the power running (at least, until the battery backup dies).

      In any case, that's not the point... If the broadband signal pushes ham users out of their 'hobby' then, when the power goes out, there won't be any hams with working radios to help coordinate the saving of your unlit butt.

      Reminds me of a parable...

      "Why is faith more important than knowledge?" The acolyte asked of the priest.

      The priest thought for a moment, then replied: "Faith is like a candle, knowlege is like the sun".

      "But isn't a candle useless compared to the sun?" asked the acolyte.

      "Ask me that question again at midnight," replied the priest.

      The ham system is rather like an insurance policy. It often seems like a waste -- until the day you really need it. Of course, the day you really need it, is the wrong time to put it together.
  • As if /.'ers care (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ignorant Aardvark ( 632408 ) * <cydeweys.gmail@com> on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @10:53PM (#6740853) Homepage Journal
    Being a slashdotter means never having to say you're sorry when you ostracize a seemingly archaic, yet dependable, technology that shows its worth when all else fails.
    • by antibryce ( 124264 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:24PM (#6741032)
      Being a slashdotter means never having to say you're sorry when you ostracize a seemingly archaic, yet dependable, technology that shows its worth when all else fails.


      er, I thought we liked UNIX on Slashdot. Did I not get the memo?

      Oh, you meant ham radio! Nevermind...

    • Being a slashdotter means never having to say you're sorry when you ostracize a seemingly archaic, yet dependable, technology that shows its worth when all else fails.
      Which is why we all love CowboyNeal.
    • ... especially one that trained and will perhaps continue to train our bright young electronic engineering types to think hard and make duct tape work in new ways ;)
    • All else didn't fail. Some cell phone networks were still up.
      • All else didn't fail. Some cell phone networks were still up.

        None of the ones I had any experience with - and yes, I was in the area that evening - were usable. They were too jammed...just like they were on 9/11 (and yes, I was there then, too).

        Cellphone networks, like all telephone networks are designed on the premise that only a fraction of their capacity will be in use at one time. During a disaster, that assumption crashes in flames, because *everyone* wants to call and let someone knoe they're all r
  • Phones (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Man, what happened to those phones you needed to crank up??
  • I told you so! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tsu Dho Nimh ( 663417 ) <abacaxi@hotmail.cPOLLOCKom minus painter> on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @10:54PM (#6740856)
    Neener, neener, neener!

    You only need HAM radio once in a while, but there is no substitute for it's low-tech ability to keep communicating.

    • Agreed. It's easy to think ham radio is obsolete, UNTIL the power goes out or the cellular network goes byebye. If cell phones relied on Windows, the first hundred or so viruses that came along would make ham radio VERY popular.

    • Re:I told you so! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:31PM (#6741070)
      I. It's not low tech. It's appropriate tech.

      II. It's the most dependable emergency communcation network in the world.

      III. It requires practicaly NO INFRASTRUCTURE!

      IV. It's CHEAP (total cost to implement, see III)!

      V. It's reliable. It will be operational when all other methods of long distance communication fail.(See II)

      VI. It's democratic.

      VII. It is the first worldwide hacker community.

      IX. It teaches science and technology without being onerous.

      X. It is altruistic (people use their rigs to provide emergency communications for people who could care less about ham radio).

      XI. Unlike commercial broadcasting, it serves the community at all times.

      Those are just a few of the many reasons I admire and apreciate ham radio operators. We should all fight to preserve a portion of the spectrum for the use of these fine folks.

    • Too True (Score:3, Informative)

      I agree completely. I belong to an international chruch that has food distribution centers all over the country. Each center has a HAM radio operator. Once a week they get on the horn and communicate, and everyone relays messages for anyone who can't hear the 'central command'. In the case of an emergancy they work together to help determine where the food needs to be shipped to, and also to help local emergancy personel.

      I don't know how anyone could discount HAM radio. You can run it in your car and talk t

    • Re:I told you so! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Max Romantschuk ( 132276 ) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @12:19AM (#6741304) Homepage
      You only need HAM radio once in a while, but there is no substitute for it's low-tech ability to keep communicating.

      Another great thing about plain old analogue radio is that it can be implemented using discrete componets in a military-grade package for around 20 lbs. Repariablilty of such a solution is far superior to integrated electronics.

      Might not make a difference under normal circumstances, but when faced with things blowing to bits right and left you sure are glad you don't have to locate IC637247 (random name there) to repair the damn thing!
  • by Gherald ( 682277 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @10:55PM (#6740863) Journal
    It is obvious that old methods shine when newer technology fails.

    This is why we burn candles during blackouts.

    Big deal, lets get on with the other 99.9% of our lives.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    ... that none of the communications applications mentioned in the article would have used HF radio. HF is used when you want an unreliable, noisy link over extremely long distances. VHF (144 MHz and up) and UHF comms are used for emergency-services work. These services would not be affected by BPL.

    HF is pretty much done for as a meaningful communications medium. VHF and UHF are where the action is these days.
    • HF can be fairly reliable if you are willing to invest the money in equipment, antennas and trained engineers and operators. If you don't have access to a satellite, it is still a practical means of communication.
      • in many parts of the world such as Africa and India. Even the Plain-old-telephone service sometimes has to use HF to bridge the gaps. Microwave works ok when you have enough repeater stations, but HF can bridge the distances better.
    • by CharlieG ( 34950 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:18PM (#6740990) Homepage
      40 Meters (aka HF) was used between the various OEMs and Albany and Red Cross National

      Disclaimer
      I'm the Queens County Emergency Coordinator of ARES - One of the groups called out. I "work" (2 levels down) for Tom from the article

      • 40 Meters (aka HF) was used between the various OEMs and Albany and Red Cross National

        Sweet Mary, I parsed that as Original Equipment Manufaturers, and it still made sense. I need a break.

  • by Saint Aardvark ( 159009 ) * on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:00PM (#6740886) Homepage Journal
    ...data can never have too many multiple, redundant backups.
  • Outdated my ass (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Kethinov ( 636034 )
    My entire internet service has been ham based for years. While the person who runs it is an absolute moron and the service sucks, it's not the technology's fault, it's the guy who runs it. Ham radio isps is the future for anyone who lives where cable/dsl isn't available.
    • Re:Outdated my ass (Score:3, Insightful)

      by antibryce ( 124264 )
      How do you use encryption on this ham based ISP? Wouldn't the banner ads and spam count as broadcasting commercial speech and get you fined by the FCC? Do you really think mom&pop are going to get their technicians license just to send their kid email at school?
    • mod parent down (Score:5, Interesting)

      by metatruk ( 315048 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @12:00AM (#6741209)
      Yeah, okay. I am not sure of any ham radio based ISPs in the US, however, such a thing would be illegal and impractical for several reasons:
      First of all, it is illegal to use amateur radio as a commercial service.
      * It's illegal to use encryption or voice scrambling over amateur radio. This would make things like https, ssl, and ssh, illegal to use over the service.
      * the customers of the service would have to have amateur radio licenses as well as the ISP.
      * It is illegal to transmit profanity over amateur radio.

      Please moderate this appropriately (down)
    • Sorry, but you're not allowed to use indecent language on ham radio, and you just did, so your ass is busted for saying "ass". The service may suck, but you can't say "sucks", even though Beavis and Butthead got away with widely saying it on TV and it's become common language. And you'd better not go using SSL forms to encrypt your credit card number on any websites, because encryption is illegal on ham radio.

      But yeah, it's kind of fun technology, if it weren't for the fact that the FCC can bust you any

    • Check out the Australian project to pipe IP over VHF. It's called BushLAN. The custom hardware is just being finished as far as I know. Linux-based hubs of course ;)
  • by Astrorunner ( 316100 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:02PM (#6740897) Journal
    sorry, ran out of space in the subject line...

    Many cell towers are equiped with UPSs to work for a couple hours or so, but hardly enough to cover an outage like what we've seen. We've concentrated on building these things cheap. I can't say I blame them -- who expects a two-day-long outage? Even so, many of the backups didn't even work. You could argue that they should have generators for backup, solar panels, gerbil-wheels, or what not, but its our capitalist nature to try and build these things as cheaply as possible.

    I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios, that emergency personel should have access to ham radios. It'd probably cost a lot less to do that than to create a telecommunications infrastructure resistant to blackouts.
    • You're an idiot (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I work for a wireless carrier, we lost less than a dozen towers during the outtage and the DIESEL GENERATORS that support them during power outtages are designed to last at least a week which is fantastic considering everyone else is without power. I think it's great that people still use ham radios, it keeps my grandfather from asking me how e-mail works.
      • Re:You're an idiot (Score:5, Interesting)

        by no_such_user ( 196771 ) <jd-slashdot-20071008@@@dreamallday...com> on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:33PM (#6741079)
        Funny... *everyone* I know in the city couldn't use their cell phone reliably from the time the power went out until sometime friday -- and that's only because the power started to be restored at that point. Where I live, we didn't get power back until friday night. My verizon phone, normally with full 1x digital signal strength, was registering ONE BAR of ANALOG service mid day Friday - and wasn't at all usable when I tried to place a call. And I'm fairly certain that the t-mobile cabinet o' gear in the basement of my building doesn't have diesel, and was out of juice by friday morning.

        Meanwhile, I was up and running on ham the entire time. I'm not saying ham radio is for everyone, but it served me well. It's nice to not have to rely upon a third party to transport my voice during an emergency.
        • Do you think that your service could have been out because EVERYone was trying to use it at the same time? I know I've been bumped off of a tower that was in plain sight while in heavy traffic...
    • Grungy old men? I'm 26, and I got my ham license when I was 21. There are a lot more middle-aged-and-up hams than us young guys, though... Morgan KF4YTR
    • You can't.

      That is way you use generators!! Batteries are there until generators come on line. What is why you do not want digial phones in your home as your only phone. They rely on your house power. MA Bell (or kids) still use generators to help keep your phone on, so 911 will work.

      The best system I have seen was in Caribbean. A single base cell tower... Batteries to keep on line for 30 minutes and THREE generators each with THREE fuel tanks, and all buried. Any generator with 1 fuel tank would run
    • by TWX ( 665546 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:38PM (#6741097)
      "I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios, that emergency personel should have access to ham radios. It'd probably cost a lot less to do that than to create a telecommunications infrastructure resistant to blackouts."

      Not everyone in ham radio is a 'grungy old man'. I'm 23, and I'm licensed. My girlfriend at the time I got into Amateur Radio is licensed, she was who got me interested in the field. A friend of mine in his 30's is licensed, a former employer if mine is licensed, and he was the Systems Architect for a communications project of very large scale.

      You probably know at least one ham radio operator, who probably has some old Kenwood radio somewhere waiting for a need to be used. I don't drive around with five antennas on my car, there is an antenna cable coming into the passenger compartment, but the mount sits in the trunk with the antenna so I can put it up if I feel that I need to use it. I keep good batteries near where I store my radios, and I have one VHF HT for quick use, and one all-mode HT for when real problems hit.

      And besides, are you going to train all of the emergency personnel on how to use the equipment and proper ettiquite? It's not exactly rocket science, but there are enough emergency personnel who would rather worry about learning how to keep critically injured people alive and let someone else do the talking that I'll gladly be one of the 'someone else'.

      And two hours on a cell tower you say? I can go days on a set of batteries on my 2m HT, and a full day on the all-mode, if I have to, and I have enough power to go miles without any relay. I think that's pretty good odds for an extended blackout.
    • I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios, that emergency personel should have access to ham radios.

      You should educate yourself on what really happens in disasters like this. Hams are well organized to be deployed in these situations. The emergency personel not only get access to the equipment but also to people trained to operate them and coordinate in a very orderly way, not only with other hams but with various emergency services as well. Actually many more emergency responde

    • by Anonymous Coward
      Ham radio is not licensed for use as a commercial or government service. It is a non-commercial ("amateur") service only.

      Plus, most service workers and emergency personnell have radios that have anywhere from zero (auto-trunking) to five (old style VHF/UHF) "channels". Training them to use the open spectrum and coordinate such use is ridiculous. They're responding to an emergency, they won't have time or patience to establish a net and communications protocol.

      We "old" (27 years old) hams are able to ta
    • You talk about "ham radios" like they are something special - they aren't - they are in fact transcievers just like the kind the cops, military or commercial organizations use. If it wasn't for the vast infrastructure of volunteers it wouldn't be all that better then those frs radios you can get for 5$ at wallmart. Also I'm an Extra Class ham and I'm only 25 - I don't think I'm all that grungy... I'm just a regular guy who can help out - and thats what ham radio is.

      "emergency personel" already have their o
    • I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios,

      I'm 24 and I've been a ham for 6 years. I may be grungy but I'm not old. Did I mention my 13 year old sister is studying for her ham license? Did I mention my 54 year old mother is also studying? Did I mention that I work with 3 other hams, all under 40?

      that emergency personel should have access to ham radios.

      Sure, and while were at it lets give fire hoses to EMTs and let Red Cross volunteers carry guns. Are you nuts? Giving ham radios to

  • by SuperQ ( 431 ) * on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:02PM (#6740898) Homepage
    I keep my HT charged up.. and can plug it into 12v car any time.. Our club repeater has 2 APC's on different parts of the equipment to keep it online for hours. We also have the repeater on a backup generator.

    If the power outage had hit minnesota, I'd be 30 seconds away from my radio, ready to find out where everyone is, and what is going on.

    -KC0NBY
    • If the power goes out in Minnesota, it doesn't take me 30 seconds to find out where everybody is and what's going on. I already know.

      Where everybody is: At home or on their way there.
      What's going on: Everybody is eating all the ice cream and steak in their freezers by candle-light. We midwesterners do so hate to let food go to waste.

      Come on, for any given block in the Twin Cities, power has gone out at least twice in the last five years, due to trees hitting power lines, weather-related incidents, etc

    • Gawd I love QRZ's callsign lookup.

      Congrats Ben, I didn't realize you had your license. Are you tech only?

      -KC0IOG
  • by dlmarti ( 7677 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:06PM (#6740919) Homepage
    How would you like a 128k data link to your car:
    http://www.icomamerica.com/amateur/dstar/ind ex.htm l

    Amateur Radio is cutting edge, the thing that makes it seem obsolete is that they never delete old protocols or modes of operation. For example the same guy may use CW to contact Brazil one night, and an OSCAR (Orbital Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio) Satellite to contact France the next.
    • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:54PM (#6741186) Journal
      Yes, hams get to play with cool toys. But ham radio is censored - it's self-censorship by the users, under the threat of license revocation and social pressure from other hams, but it's still censored, and that makes it much less useful. That's why unlicensed spectrum like the 2.4GHz band used by 802.11b and 5GHz used by 802.11a are *so* critical. We could do so much more if the ham bands weren't censored.


      Hams aren't allowed to talk about business on the air (unlike CB radio or some of the other mobile bands), because that got in the way of the FCC's New Deal views of how they wanted to regulate the quasi-nationalized airwaves and monopoly telephone and radio broadcast companies, and they're not allowed to use encryption (it took a long time before even ASCII was officially recognized, because it's a Code that's not Morse) because Foreign Spies might use it, and I think you're still not even allowed to use Bad Language because it's a broadcast medium (that doesn't totally suck, because it is more polite, but since you can lose your license, it still sucks.)

      CB radio used to be semi-censored and did require licenses, and was limited to 5 watts which was usually a moderate distance in those days, but the FCC lost control of it during the 1970s flood of truckers and low-cost radio hardware, in spite of it being a very limited band. So some guy in Florida with a kilowatt linear ham amplifier could blow out CB radios across half the country... And you can use walkie-talkies with very limited range - the non-licensed FRS stuff pretends to go two miles, but you're supposed to have a license to use the GMRS channels which pretend to do 5-7 miles.

      The ARPANET had its Acceptable Use Policies against non-official use, and its unofficial very flexible policies that you could talk about anything you want _except_ business, and about official government-or-university-research-related business, but companies that had Arpanet connections and UUCP connections couldn't technically relay email between them unless it was AUP-permitted email. So as the Internet evolved, and had the connectivity to be much more useful than dialup UUCP mail, it was very hard to tell whether you could legally send somebody email about business that your company was doing with their company, because it might be crossing AUP-censored territory. Eventually the Commercial Internet Exchange was formed to let normal businesses use Internet connections, especially email, without violating those laws or policies. But that worked because network connections use wires and fibers that can connect private entities, even if you use TCP/IP on them, while Ham Radio uses the nationalized radio spectrum so it can't escape (unless you wanted to use ham radio technology in metal pipes or something silly like that.)

      • We like radio that way. The FCC isn't about to come shoot you if you allude to business, but we don't want people 'spamming' us on the air.

        Things are kept civil on the ham bands. I used to have a CB... I'm glad I don't anymore. They all talked trash, and nothing but trash. I've heard an occasional (*gasp*) trash talk or excessive profanity on the HF bands before. I doubt the FCC did anything. They have better things to do (I'd hope) than sit around listenting to hams discuss baseball waiting for one of the
  • Was my savior. (Score:5, Informative)

    by niko9 ( 315647 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:07PM (#6740922)
    I'm a paramedic in NYC, and when the lights went out, I went straight into work at the hospital.

    Before I left the house, I took along my HTX-245 Radio Shack dual band radio ($49 on clearance).
    I tried several repeaters, and an operator on one, informed me that the repeater was up on battery power, he was standing by with a working landline, and was available to us for phone calls in case we needed to contact our telemetry physician.

    The admins and my boss at the hospital were very impressed, more so when the EMS radios went down, and my HTX-245 600mw radio was our only link that time in the field.

    73's N2PDB
    • Re:Was my savior. (Score:5, Informative)

      by grishnav ( 522003 ) <grishnav@@@egosurf...net> on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:42PM (#6741121) Homepage
      No big surprise to us here in Oregon. We saw the value of Amateur Radio as a reliable communications backup years ago. As things stand, if there were a large-scale outage in Oregon, the HEART [qsl.net] (Hospital Emergency Amateur Radio Team) would activate, alone with Oregon ARES, and individual hospotials' groups, and provide a reliable infrastructure for the Portland-Metro area hospitals (and more broadly, any Oregon hospitals - and possibly later even interstate hospitals) to communicate

      As things currently stand here, each hospital maintains it's own group of volunteers to staff the hospital, passing communications both between departments internally, and also acting as the voice to the outside world. (I volunteer at Providence Portland for the Disaster Communications Team [egosurf.net].) The individual groups (in my case, DCT) interface internally with their home hospital, and externally with their home HEART net to pass traffic between local hospitals (in my case, hospitals in the Portland-Metro area). HEART then acts as the radio infrastructure for local hospitals, and the connection to the district ARES net, which can pass emergency traffic through different parts of the state (via the various nets for each ARES district). In theory, our system could scale up to provide a reliable interstate and even national communications, but I don't see a crisis of that magnitude necessatating it any time soon... Not to mention that I doubt the emergency services between states would cooperate well enough to have it work anyway. :)

      The only gap we haven't filled at this point is Ambulance communications, but groups like Mountain Wave [mwave.org], whom do emergency-service style dispatching in other capacities already, are slowly being recognised as a resource and stepping up to the task. Sadly, that's still probably a ways in the future before actual MOUs are crafted. But we'll see...
    • How do things like HIPPA relate to that? (Not that I'm criticizing you or anything.) If you're essentially broadcasting details of a medical phone call, it sounds a little shady.

      But then I started thinking... All the radios in the back of ambulances are encryption free, and in fact, at least out here, less than 10 MHz away from the 2 meter band. (Case in point, I have the local Ambulance-Hospital frequencies in my HT.) They more or less do the same as your HT.

      As I said, I'm certainly not criticizing you -
  • by Tom Davies ( 64676 ) <tgdavies@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:08PM (#6740926) Homepage
    Damned illiterates :-)
  • by spasm ( 79260 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:11PM (#6740947) Homepage
    Shone! Shone! Dear God, 'shined' hasn't been used as a past tense since the 1700s!

    So Timothy is a time traveller from the 1700s. That explains a lot of slashdot spelling now that I think about it

    Ok, the coffee is kicking in now.
  • That's what we get for depending on electricity so much. HAM radio is nothing special, without those car batteries and other backup power sources it would have been as useless as a pair of tits on a bull.

    Just make sure never to get an electric home environment control system.

  • For anyone wondering why interference due to power line broadband is considered a bad thing, well, there ya go.

    Um, the power was out. Interference instantly gone when hams are only really useful. Otherwise there is power (interference) and the cell/phone network can re-route traffic as need around the problem area. Sure, the phone network(s) were overloaded during 9/11, but they continued to work and emergency personnel went off their powered radio systems anyway. Show me the problem. :)

    • by CharlieG ( 34950 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:26PM (#6741044) Homepage
      Right - and the hams are going to invest thousands of dollars for their own gear, and NOT be able to use it except in an emergency, PLUS they won't be able to train with that gear

      Yeah, that makes sense - learn to do something in an emergency situation, instead of working public service events year round, and training "nets" every week.

      Your also only thinking blackouts. When they have forest fires out west - how do they do the long haul radio comms? Yep, hams on HF. When there is a hurricane, how do the storm spotting reports come in - Hams on HF - AGAIN. When The shuttle broke up over Texas, what did NASA and the local PDs find was the ONLY thing that worked out in the rural areas. You guessed it - Hams. When they need to do GIS data logging, what did they use? Hams running a mode called APRS
    • by niko9 ( 315647 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:33PM (#6741080)
      Interference instantly gone when hams are only really useful.

      Hams were the first pioneers of almost all the radio technology you take for granted. You like WiFi? Who do you think tinkered in that frequncy range to begin with? Who do you think you still share that 2.4Ghz band with? Sattelites? Etc, etc.

      but they continued to work and emergency personnel went off their powered radio systems anyway. Show me the problem. :)

      Umm, FYI, we lost power to the EMS repeaters for a good 30 mins, twice. Repeaters work off of AC, and if they go down, all the little portable radios that EMS personnell rely on make grat paperweights.

      I'm a ham, had a radio that day, and was able to communicate that day at work with a few battery powered repeaters. The operators on the other were ready and willing to help out in any way possible.

      Please visit www.arrl.org for more information.

      Nice troll BTW. :)

  • Ham Joke (Score:5, Funny)

    by cnb ( 146606 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:17PM (#6740979)
    An blonde chick ran out of gas one night and a dude pulled over to offer assistance. She got in the car and noticed he had all kinds of radio equipment in the car and several antennas outside. She asked what that was all about. He explained he was a Ham radio operator and he could talk to anywhere in the world from right here in his car. She asked "Anywhere in the world?" and he assured her he could. "Even in Poland?" she asked. "Yes, even Poland." She said "Wow, my mother lives in Poland and today is her birthday. I'd do anything if I could tell her Happy Birthday." He said "You'd do anything?" She said "Yes, anything." So he pulled over on the top of a hill and pulled out his dick and said "Get with it." She grabbed ahold of it and bent over and said "Happy Birthday, Mom."
  • by Whammy666 ( 589169 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:17PM (#6740980) Homepage
    Even though 99 pct of the time no one thinks about ham radio, in a crisis situation, it's usually the one form of communication that is likely to be still working when it hits the fan. In remote areas, it may be the only communication available even in good times.

    The reason is that our modern communications are very complex and dependent on things like having reliable electrical power. Most ham sets can run on car batteries and provide nationwide or even global coverage if necessary. Voice, video, and data are all possible with ham radio. Just what you need in a crisis.
  • Blackberries? (Score:2, Interesting)

    Couldnt blackberries have done the same job that the hams did here? They performed a similar service during the September 11th attacks in 2001 when everything else was overloaded
  • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:31PM (#6741072) Journal
    Ham radio was really useful during the blackout, but that's mainly because of the users being good at emergency response, not the technology, which had pretty low capacity.


    The wired telephone network did really well during the blackout, because it was designed with separate reliable power systems, big batteries, generators, and a concern for reliability; except for a few isolated power problems, the real trouble that wired phones had was that too many people were trying to call so there were some capacity issues. Cell phones have similar issues, but the overloading capacity problems are far worse, and the failure methods aren't as clean, and unlike the wired phone network, there aren't decades of work on how to make sure that "important" users get priority during overloads.

    Peer-to-Peer systems scale well, and theoretically they'd do better than centralized problems in some kinds of emergencies, but they have to be designed correctly to avoid the overloading-and-failure problem as well. (For example, Napster scaled really well within clusters, but the earlier Gnutella things run out of indexing capacity after a while.)

    So you'd expect Ham Radio to be great, because everybody can talk directly to everybody else once they pick channels, but it's not really that way. When two radios can reach each other directly, and it's an emergency situation, everybody's polite and well-trained enough to prioritize and let the doctors and firemen and police talk to each other and move the idle chit-chat or the "Hi, Marge, I'll be home really late" personal calls to other channels. HF seems to work that way, and CB radio Channel 9 somewhat did, but other CB channels are a total zoo, kind of like Usenet without the scalability. But a large fraction of the cute little handheld ham sets (2m, 70cm, etc.) are repeater-based - there's a repeater up on a hilltop with N channels of transmit and receive which lets the little sets get lots of distance without lots of power, kind of like one big cell site per hilltop. It works really well when it's not overloaded, but its only overflow protection is polite users, and that means that if it's too busy, you can't get through, but the busy signal is friendlier and more interesting. One repeater that got mentioned at ARRL.ORG handled about 500 messages over 20 hours, which is about one call every 2 minutes - not a heavy load.

    Does anybody know how well ham repeater towers did for power during the outage? I'm guessing most of them are well-enough designed, with batteries and solar to support most of their needs rather than depending on line power, partly because hams are good at that kind of planning and partly because volunteers would rather not have to drive up some mountain during bad weather to fire up a generator just because the power line went down when they've got better things to do.

  • by PotatoHead ( 12771 ) <doug@NoSpAM.opengeek.org> on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:32PM (#6741078) Homepage Journal
    I think the whole power line thing is a bad idea.

    Wireless technologies are more than able to fill this need with the same or less effort.

    For all you folks dogging the HAMs, consider the do it yourself hacker nature they represent. Don't we need to nurture and cultivate this kind of thinking given the general law making trends today?

    Again, its a bad idea that can easily be solved other ways.
  • If you leave the fun frequencies (HF, the stuff the Broadband over power interferes with) saturated with noise and even clobber some of the VHF frequencies, who will want to buy equipment for use only when the power goes out. Also consider that while the power was out in some area it wasn't in others. The HAM at the recieving end may hear nothing but static.

    A lot of the value that HAM radio provides in an emergency comes from the large number of people who have them who wouldn't if they could only use the
  • by nvrrobx ( 71970 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:43PM (#6741128) Homepage
    I haven't keyed up a radio in a few years, but when my license expires in March of 2004, I'm renewing it.

    It's just one of those things - you never know when you'll need it, but you'll be glad you had it...

    ---
    KE6FTH
  • many ham radio operators put great effort in training for emergencies and praticipate in mock emergency drills with the red cross and state emergency agencies.. As for Ham radio being outdated, some of the most advanced digital signal processing is now being used in Ham radios.. Some of the top end radios even have two DSPs.. Broadband over the powerlines will cause problems other than just ham radio.. The biggest users of the spectrum that the powerlines will be using is the military and other government
  • by Phil Karn ( 14620 ) <karn&ka9q,net> on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:52PM (#6741173) Homepage
    I can't believe how many of my fellow hams fail to appreciate the danger in this kind of post-crisis breastbeating. If the cell phone networks were overloaded while the ham channels were not, then the obvious solution (to anyone but a ham) is to take some of that underutilized ham spectrum and give it to the needy cellular networks!

    The simple sad fact is that ham radio is now virtually irrelevant in emergency communications and other direct public service activities. While the non-ham world has embraced analog and digital cell phones, FRS, 802.11, LEO and GEO satellite terminals and the Internet, most of ham radio is still stuck on methods that predate World War 2. And many hams seem perversely proud of it!

    The only remaining reason for ham radio to continue to exist (and it's a really important one) is for the utterly unique educational opportunities it provides. Where else can you, as an individual, design your own antennas, build your own radios, conduct propagation experiments, experiment with your own modulation schemes, or participate in the design, construction and operation of a spacecraft? Ham radio has launched many people into productive technical careers, and that has always been its biggest payoff.

    • The simple sad fact is that ham radio is now virtually irrelevant in emergency communications and other direct public service activities.

      Wrong.

      I am very active in many facets of public service and emergency communications - and I'm not talking about Amateur activism, either. I can tell you with authority that you are completely and utterly incorrect. Hams play a large role in emergency communications, at least here in the Northwest. I say this as a person who utilizies amateur services on a regular ba

    • Disagree (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hughk ( 248126 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @02:30AM (#6741828) Journal
      I can't believe how many of my fellow hams fail to appreciate the danger in this kind of post-crisis breastbeating.
      This kind of event helps to show that the hams aren't just sitting on 'valuable real-estate' in the EM spectrum.
      If the cell phone networks were overloaded while the ham channels were not, then the obvious solution (to anyone but a ham) is to take some of that underutilized ham spectrum and give it to the needy cellular networks!
      The needy cellular networks were off-air because they were too infrastructure dependent. Interestingly enough, the emergency services are well trained in what they do, but that doesn't leave much room for knowing their communication systems (which often don't work so well during major emergencies). Hams who have been in one of the emergency nets are trained to make the best use of communications (keep messages short and share the frequency).

      All the technology that you quote apart from satellites requires considerable infrastructure that simply doesn't work or is overloaded during an emergency. Satellite terminals work very well in open country, but they don't like high buildings. A friend of mine had a portable INMARSAT terminal to provide emergency communications. He had to go onto a roof to use it. LEO (Iridium-style) is better, but it still has problems amongst the 'canyon walls' formed by high-rise buildings.

      You accuse hams of being stuck in the past. Please remember that the hobby is tightly regulated by the FCC. The fights to even get packet radio accepted took a lot of time.

      Yes, the training aspect that you mention is important, but the ability of amateurs to provide emergency support is probably still their best justification for the EM spectrum they occupy.

  • /.ers anti Ham? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Felinoid ( 16872 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2003 @11:59PM (#6741206) Homepage Journal
    Now that really is a supprise.

    Oh sure Ham's an old technology. Like Unix. Constantly revising the technology by a community connected by the technology. Like open source. Always informmed like Slashdot working together to keep the signal clear.

    Many ham ops use Linux and for a good reason the whole Linux community is very much like the Ham packet community.

    Today public wifi is a bunch of hacks with repeaters etc but some day a ham will bring out some technology that will make it work on a massive scale.

    But people outside the ham community. They don't see it. They look at ham and say "That ugly tower is going to bring down property values" they say "We'll get cancer" they sue and harrass ham ops.
    They don't believe a group of hobbyists can do any better than paid profesionals.

    Open source and free software communitys live in the same boat.

    Hay if brodband over IP interfears with ham packets then what will happen to cell phones, wifi, broudcast TV and radio..

    We don't need archaic hams and we don't need open source software. But if you think the alternitive isn't ditching the technology all together your mistaken.
    Good bye open source, good bye Linux, Good bye Internet.
    Good by Ham, good bye communication inovations, good bye cell phones and yet again good bye Internet.

    We can live with out it. Do we want to?

    If Ham had a Microsoft there'd be someone saying right now how Ham got lucky.
  • I am a licensed ham radio operator, and proud to be one. Sitting here, waiting for the disease to spread, I waited by my ham station. Passed some traffic (a human relay), but luckily was spared.


    Yes, this blackout is the best thing to happen to ham radio in a while. Maybe this stupid idea of broadband over power lines will finally be snipped.

  • by fishbowl ( 7759 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @12:12AM (#6741264)
    There wasn't much powerline or RF interference during this particular event...
  • Seems that ham radio ..., really shined through during the blackouts.

    Also shining was my helioscope, but it always does that.

  • weather (Score:3, Informative)

    by briskphone ( 699781 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @01:05AM (#6741472)
    One service that hams provide quite often that EVERYONE benefits from is skywarn. In threatening weather hams known as spotters keep on the lookout for tornadoes, high winds, hail, etc. and report it from several locations at once. A almost real time of localized weather can be attained. Whenever you hear the weatherman say that spotters seen a funnel cloud or a tornado touchdown, they are talking about hams.

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