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Wireless Networking Security Hardware

Two Wheeled Wi-Fi Sniffing Robot 81

Posted by CowboyNeal from the tom-servo-totally-jealous dept.
paulnuyu writes "ZDNet/MSN has an article about a robot that detects Wi-Fi vulnerabilities and intrusions. The two wheeled robot made by the Shmoo Group cruised around the DefCon convention in Vegas last Sunday, picking up telnet and POP passwords. Though still a prototype, the shipping version is projected to have autonomous steering capabilities."
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Two Wheeled Wi-Fi Sniffing Robot More

Two Wheeled Wi-Fi Sniffing Robot

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  • Telnet and POP? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mjmalone ( 677326 ) * on Saturday August 09, 2003 @11:44AM (#6655040) Homepage
    Currently, Holman said, the robot can sniff out passwords sent through protocols such as Telnet and POP

    If anyone is still using plaintext to send passwords over their lan they are insane. I know there are a lot of stupid admins out there, but getting ssl and ssh installed should be a priority. Before you try and secure your wireless network segment you need to begin using secure protocols.

    • Re:Telnet and POP? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jc42 ( 318812 ) on Saturday August 09, 2003 @12:01PM (#6655147) Homepage Journal
      If anyone is still using plaintext to send passwords over their lan they are insane.

      Well, a lot of people don't have any choice. Our cable ISP here, for example, provided the usual email accounts, and for a lot of customers, that is their only email. If you use it, you have no choice other than POP, and I haven't seen anything in several mailers that talks about encrypting the passwords. Our ISP doesn't actually block port 25, so you could run your own mailer. This isn't feasible for most customers, though, for several reasons. One is the dynamic IP addresses and insane hostnames. I've fixed that by using one of the many independent registration services, but to most customers, that would be utterly baffling and unusable. Another problem is that running your own email server is in fact in violation of the TOS in the ISP's contract, and they can legally block your port(s) or kick you off entirely at any time, without warning or recourse.

      So for most non-geek customers, unencrypted POP passwords are the only option. There's probably no way they could even learn from the ISP that there's a problem; they certainly wouldn't get (or understand) any advice on how to fix it.

      (Myself, I use an account at a school. It has been stable and usable for over 15 years now, unlike commercial email accounts that force you to change your address every 6 months whenever there's a merger, buyout, or corporate renaming. And I can use a plain-text mail reader, eliminating all problems with virii, worms and the like. But I'm not sure I'd recommend this to the typical non-geek.)

      • Re:Telnet and POP? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by lavorgeous ( 191087 )
        I agree -- most non-geeks shouldn't have to worry about such things (and likely don't even know that they might need to).

        But DefCon isn't an average-joe situation -- I'm amazed that the attendees at a conference like DefCon wouldn't know better than to wander around a conference filled with other geeks surfing/mailing/etc over WiFi without at least using SSH.
      • Running your own SMTP mailer on DynDNS service with dynamic IP addresses is insane as well, as this creates a considerable time window (of at least 60 seconds, which was the DynDNS.org TTL last time I checked; far more when you're offline for one reason or another) for your messages to hit the wrong customer - that is, assuming DNS in this world is working perfectly and all servers will respect the DynDNS record's TTL. I happen to believe that DNS has never been in this state, even though it appears to have
    • If anyone is still using plaintext to send passwords over their lan they are insane.

      Did it occur to anyone that maybe those passwords were bait? No better way to catch a scriptkiddie than to make him think he's hit a goldmine. He runs home, logs into that honeypot, and the cops are on his doorstep the next day. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, 'd00d'.

      I know there are a lot of stupid admins out there, but getting ssl and ssh installed should be a priority. Before you try and secure your wireless

      • Re:Bait, and false sense of security (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        POP itself isn't insecure auth-wise, and neither is telnet

        reader: Parse error in paragraph 4: Triple negative overflow. Giving up.

      • Just a sidenote, but POP itself isn't insecure auth-wise, and neither is telnet. POP3 supports APOP, which uses CRAM-MD5 to encode the password, and is rather secure.

        APOP is pretty worthless: it is trading one problem for an even worse one.

        The USER/PASS approach means sending all passwords in the clear, so you're subject to evesdropping/replay attacks. (That's, obviously, not so good.) But the server never holds on to your plaintext password; it just encrypts it and compares the result to cipherte

      • If you type your password into some unknown workstation to log into your 'protected' machine with SSH then you instantly have zero security! A small dongle on the box will record all your keystrokes, or software hidden in the kernel or whatever. I trust my laptop plugged into someone else's network port, but I won't trust their computer.
        I guess if you server uses one-time-passwords (like secure-ID), you'd be OK.
    • Since you obviously don't live in the real world, here is a quick note from it... There are LOTS of devices that don't support encryption that are in use at most organizations of decent size. If you were to take a stroll around all of the fortune 1xx companies I bet you would find un-encrypted traffic that might be considered sensitive data flowing all over the place...

      And I am not talking just the custom apps that some dev team in house wrote several years ago. This includes software packages today tha
    • Why do the the initial replies always stray way off the unique part of the post?

      And then, why oh why oh why do these off topic posts get moderated as "insightfull"???

      What the hell do these initial responses have to do with a two wheeled robot with automous capabilities?

  • Mmmhhh... thats nice (Score:3, Funny)

    by neglige ( 641101 ) on Saturday August 09, 2003 @11:46AM (#6655053)
    Now all it need is a way to create those WLAN grafittis. And a way to publish all found passwords on a web-page.

    And while you're at it, give it the ability to create a map of the signal strenght, too...
    • They had that at Defcon. They called it the wall of sheep and would display usernames, partial passwords, and protocols that had been captured over the wireless links at Defcon. I loved seeing a root telnet from someone displayed on the wall.
    • A few months ago 2600 magazine had a arial photo of manhattan, with wifi points they found drawn over it. The stronger the signal was, the larger the circle identifiying it was. Cool shot.

  • Jalics. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There's this one guy in Akron who's building a robot. He has GPS on it. All it does is roll around, it's not exactly that great of a robot.

    The thing is, I ask him all the time, "What does your robot do jalics?"

    jalics: Right now the first thing it will just be a rover.
    jalics: It'll have a webcam, gps, wifi.
    jalics: So I can control it remotely.

    jalics: To get accurate feedback on wheel position will be harder, but thats what I'm aiming for.

  • Now THIS (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 09, 2003 @11:47AM (#6655058)
    Is what Bond would use! Imagine him controlling this thing with a cell phone or something. He'd sniff around and get the bad guy's password, go to the hideout, kill the henchmen (and the usual: make stupid jokes and steal the villan's women).

  • WiFi Robot Wars. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Moosifer ( 168884 ) on Saturday August 09, 2003 @11:49AM (#6655068)
    Now all they need to do is add an axe or a hammer to it so that it can take out rogue access points.
    • What about using the remote to adjust antenna position to figure out signal string so it can tell where other WiFi robots are. Then again, you wouldn't want it attacking the WAPs and ad-hocs.. or would you? >:)

    • Re:WiFi Robot Wars. (Score:5, Funny)

      by stienman ( 51024 ) <adavis&ubasics,com> on Saturday August 09, 2003 @12:00PM (#6655143) Homepage Journal
      I'm sorry about your husband, Ma'am, but he was carrying an Ipaq on his person, and said Ipaq was running linux with its wireless card configured as an access point.

      No Ma'am, we are certianly considering changing the flamethrower for a taser or EMP weapon of some sort. Of course we understand - closed casket funerals always raise curiosity. Yes, Ma'am, we'll be sure to do that. Thank you for understanding.

      You get the next one Bob, and remember that it's IPAQ, not IRAQ. You got Mrs Fitz really worked up over that slip-up.

      -Adam
    • They might use the robots to sniff out and destroy copyright infringers.

      This idea is Copyright (C) 2003 by GordoSlasher, All Rights Reserved. Any use of WiFi-sniffing robots by the RIAA to sniff out and destroy copyright infringers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
    • Just put enough C4 inside of it to do the job! Problem is cleaning up the mess.

      When signal strength get to a certain level and IP is correct... Blam. It even marks were the problem was! :)
    • Wait until someone builds a trapper bot. It broadcasts a rogue access point, and lies in wait for all the sniffer bots to come along. It returns whenever its scrap bin is full to empty it and recharge.

  • Let me get this straight... (Score:5, Funny)

    by inertia187 ( 156602 ) * on Saturday August 09, 2003 @11:52AM (#6655086) Homepage Journal
    Mass produced WiFi sniffing robots that pick up passwords are fine, RFID tags that keep people from stealing things under their clothes are bad. Ok, just so I understand.

    Ok, what if these mass produced WiFi sniffing robots are get sold at WalMart? What then? You'll have a WiFi sniffing robot with a RFID tag. What a dilemma.

  • Use? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Radon Knight ( 684275 ) on Saturday August 09, 2003 @11:57AM (#6655121)
    Could someone explain just why this is useful? Sounds like a terrible waste of robotics to me.

    • Re:Use? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by segment ( 695309 )
      This could actually come in handy for the military industrial complex who will build it for pennies and sell it for millions... Actually think about it, the military could use it for real time war scenarios. tracking their own and the enemies soldiers, aircraft etc., as opposed to purchasing a tracking device for all soldiers, they could have one all inclusive roving machine which if shot at wouldn't have a widow or saddened family members.

      Look at what the mil has done with the unmanned Predator drones, it

    • Could someone explain just why your comment is Interesting? Sounds like a terrible waste of mod points to me.
    • Scenario 1:
      You work for company X, who has a wireless network, a large building, and large number of access points and very few geeks employed to make the thing run. You don't know the person who set up the wireless so you don't know how good of a job [s]he did. Enter this robot, it goes through the building scanning the place for insecure areas.
      Scenario 2:
      You work for a tech firm who employs a large number of hackers/geeks that have the access and the know how to create insecurities in your wireless net
    • Well, say there was an undesirable user on your premises using your BW or something else bad. Great way to find him. Probably better than the old narcileptic security guard too.

  • Perhaps script kiddies will be replaced? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by calebb ( 685461 ) * on Saturday August 09, 2003 @11:57AM (#6655124) Homepage Journal
    Hmm: "script bots?" It really doesn't have the same ring though. When I hear 'script kiddie,' my blood pressure starts going up, but 'script bot...' Nah...

    Not to mention the fact that you can reach 1e6 times more random systems from location X on AOL than what you from a corporate wifi network.

  • uh oh (Score:5, Funny)

    by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Saturday August 09, 2003 @12:04PM (#6655168) Journal
    at 18:18 it went autonomous...

  • Two wheeled? Peshaw! (Score:5, Funny)

    by fiftyvolts ( 642861 ) <mtoia@@@fiftyvolts...com> on Saturday August 09, 2003 @12:04PM (#6655170) Homepage Journal

    When he mods an Aibo so that it actually sniffs around, barks, and then points retriever style to the offending WiFi source then I'll be impressed.

    "What's that boy?"

    "Arf! Arf!"

    "JImmy's unsing unencrypted WiFi?"

  • Make it a standard (Score:4, Interesting)

    by segment ( 695309 ) <sil@@@politrix...org> on Saturday August 09, 2003 @12:09PM (#6655195) Homepage Journal
    With all these insecurities over protocols not using any form of SSL you would think companies after so much time would have made it a default issue to run these protocols securely. How hard would it be for the developers of BSD/Linux/*Nix to change the settings on this. Well actually someone should create a sort of "Trust" repository for sites that don't know how to set up SSL and the likes. (e.g. the millions of mom and pop shops on the net) and perhaps charge them for securing their data.

    I know Verisign and others offer services like this often at a high rate but perhaps the initiative can be funded by governments participating in some W3 standard to secure transactions.

  • Personally as long as these wardriving robots do not come with armaments (remotely or autonomously controlled) I'm not afraid. Feel free to sniff my pop / telnet passwords (don't use either), just please *dont* shoot me :)


    Shameless plug: try the world wide grapevine [wwgrapevine.com]!

  • Coincidence (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mars Saxman ( 1745 ) on Saturday August 09, 2003 @12:27PM (#6655284) Homepage
    I saw this robot in action Tuesday evening at the opening of the Dorkbot show at COCA [cocaseattle.org] here in Seattle. Only it wasn't running around looking for open access points, it was out in front of the DJ stage *dancing*. Someone had brought their daughter, who looked to be about four, and for a few minutes the kid and the wheely-bot were dancing. Quite a scene, though I didn't have my camera handy.

    -Mars
    • I was just about to post a message that *I* had seen it in action until I read yours. : ) I was the guy who set up the stage lighting. I was really intrigued by the robot because it did such a great job navigating amongst a crowd of slightly inebriated people, both milling about and dancing. And it was my friend who brought the 2-1/2 year-old girl (named Katrina). I kept a sharp eye on Katrina, hoping she wouldn't crash into the rather expensive-looking robot as she danced in front of the stage. Perso
  • Are they the same as the old Ghetto Hackers?

    I wonder if I would want to trust them with a robot running around scanning my network...

  • huh?? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by iamhassi ( 659463 )
    wireless networks aren't carpets that need constant cleaning [slashdot.org]: they don't develop vulnerabilities over time. It's either secure or it's not. Once the network is secure you don't need to keep checking if the network is secure, so what's the point of a robot that constantly checks wireless security?
    • Sure, access points don't just pop up, and if they've been secured, they'll probably stay secure. And desktop computers are relatively stable. But people get new laptops all the time, and add WiFi cards to existing laptops (especially when they're adding wifi to their home networks), and laptops get their settings messed up all the time.
      • But people get new laptops all the time, and add WiFi cards to existing laptops (especially when they're adding wifi to their home networks), and laptops get their settings messed up all the time.

        This robot is for major businesses, right? So why would a business care that the moron across the street setup a wireless network?

        Every decent IT department will lock down the PCs pretty tight, no one is going to be installing a wireless NIC in their laptop or changing the settings without IT knowing it. And

    • Been to manhattan lately?

      I found 6 unencrypted networks by sniffing right outside an office window. (38th and sixth, and all the sids were "linksys"...)

      In dense metro areas, new networks are being constantly installed by clueless desktop monkeys. I could easily see an application for this, just to know what was going on in the rf space around your city.
  • Or is this the stuipest thing you have ever heard of. There is no pratical application for this thing. Then again it could fight my ABIO in a no holds bar to the death steal cage battlebots match.
  • How about an automated wi-fi scanner (basically this thing without the wheels) that you carry around in your pocket/car/bag, it could have gps to mark locations and could then send all the data it automatically gathers (as you go about your daily business) to a central database/web-site, to take the piss it could try and use a connection through a network it just discovered to reach the web-site or if it couldnt it could just save it and it could be uploaded later. This would basically just be automated war

  • Its designers said they're still working on the autonomous capabilities--including sensors to detect humans and obstacles--and so they used a game controller that's attached to a laptop in a backpack to maneuver the robot around DefCon.

    No need. Just hire some 10-year-old off the street and pay him like $10 to drive it around with a remote control. Man, I would have loved to have that job when I was that age.

  • Hi there folks,

    You can see the photo from the news.com article here [hackerbot.com].

    We will be releasing all of the code GPL, so keep your eyes on the site for updates.

    -Eric
  • The two wheeled robot...
    How is *that* not news in itself? Either they've got a robot that can ride a bike, or they've got a pilotless Segway. Either way, that's pretty impressive. :)

    Of course, there's always the other possibility that (casters|outriggers|nylon sliding feet|articulated legs) don't count as "wheels" and shouldn't be mentioned.
  • think of all the uses for a little guy like this. set it loose in the halls of micro$oft HQ and see what you get

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