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Handhelds Hardware

Review Of Yopy 3700 Linux PDA 225

Posted by timothy from the funny-name dept.
SecondToughest writes "Gizmodo has a recent post referring to a review of the new Yopy 3700 Linux-based PDA. The reviewer seems to like it: 'Overall, this is beautiful hardware. The design is compact when not in use, but when opened the Yopy is quite user friendly. The really great thing about this PDA is the presence of both MC and CF card slots. To me, this is almost the perfect PDA design.'"
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Review Of Yopy 3700 Linux PDA More

Review Of Yopy 3700 Linux PDA

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  • Linux? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by krog ( 25663 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @09:56AM (#6400277) Homepage
    Isn't a PDA OS better suited to be a low-footprint gem like QNX [qnx.com]?
    • Isn't a PDA OS better suited to be a low-footprint gem like QNX?

      I've wondered this myself. My guess is that the QNX folks either haven't pushed very hard to get their OS into handhelds, or they have tried but eventually gave up. Plus they've probably got their hands full with the non-handheld embedded market [slashdot.org].

      • Re:Linux? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by orange_6 ( 320700 )
        either haven't pushed very hard to get their OS into handhelds, or they have tried but eventually gave up

        From their website they have implemented QNX into intelligent assist devices, which are kind of toned down handhelds. It seems that not only would it be perfectly feasible to put it on a handheld, but many of the methods they use could benefit almost all other OSs.

    • Re:Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Qzukk ( 229616 )
      Sure, if you're willing to pay the license for it and pass those costs on to the consumer.

      Linux has become the way to go embedded on the cheap. If you don't need an RTOS, what in QNX are you paying for?

      • Re:Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <revaaron@hotmail. c o m> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:52AM (#6400710) Homepage
        Linux has become the way to go embedded on the cheap. If you don't need an RTOS, what in QNX are you paying for?

        Performance. A neat GUI layer. Much smaller memory use.

        On my brand new Zaurus SL-C760, there is 64 MB of *RAM* built-in. Why? This isn't "RAM" in the sense as it is on WinCE/PocketPC, where it's split between "program RAM" and stoarage space. It has a hopping 64 MB of dedicated to this, with 128 MB of Flash for storage. I just rebooted my C760 to find out the amount of RAM Linux+QPE takes out of the box: 18 MB! Compare that to 2-3 MB for WinCE, something similar for QNX, and something even smaller for PalmOS. (Granted, PalmOS leaves a lot lacking...) ...and you PalmOS folks thought WinCE was bad! :)

        • Re:Linux? (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Trolling for Profit ( 686234 )
          Huh. I just rebooted my Zaurus 5500 with the 3.10 ROM. It took up about 8megs out of 32 to boot the OS and bring up the user interface. But the thing I like about Linux? It's easily customizable. When I stick a memory card into the thing, there are editable shell scripts that manage the mount/unmount process. I can modify those to my liking without recompiling anything. I didn't like the font chosen by a free Japanese input method I installed on the thing, so I modified the sources, recompiled, and c

          • Re:Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)

            by GlassHeart ( 579618 )
            It's easily customizable. [...] I didn't like the font chosen by a free Japanese input method I installed on the thing, so I modified the sources, recompiled, and copied the library onto the PDA.

            I like Linux a lot, but some of you advocates need to get a dose of reality. Linux is in fact highly customizable, but it's not easily customizable. What's the percentage of PDA users in general who can follow the steps you described without help?

          • I do the same on my own platform, Dynapad, without ever having to waste my time with a lengthy compilation process. If I want to change a font, I simply change it- what kind of customizability involves recompiling sources to change a font?

            Just out of curiousity: why would one want to modify the mount/umount process? Anything useful?
        • Not just an app launcher. The Zaurus multitasks, can export or mount NFS or SMB shares, play MP3s, MPEGs, does handwriting recognition, everything that you can compile code for. Apache? MySQL? OpenSSH? yes. I've done it. The Z (stock or running OZ) also uses RAM as filesystem buffer cache, so your 'free' memory may vary. If you need memory, you can make swapspace. (Parodoxically, you can make swapspace in your RAMdrive, to increase the amount of RAM you have!). This is why you can configure OpenZa

          • Re:Except that its a real _OS_ (Score:4, Insightful)

            by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <revaaron@hotmail. c o m> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @01:16PM (#6401703) Homepage
            <sigh>

            I've unfortunately went over this a dozen times with plenty of other people.

            I know it may be hard to come to terms with this, but WinCE is a real OS too. Not just an app launcher.

            You can multitask. You can mount NFS and SMB shares. Play MP3s, MPEGs, DivXs, whatever. Unlike on the Zaurus, you can get *real* handwriting recognition- not just *character recognition,* to which you are confined with any Linux PDA (at least for now). You can code in a million languages on the device it self under CE- and unlike on Linux PDAs, it's a lot easier to find a well-adapted port rather than something barely shoehorned in. Apache, FTPd, SSH, telnet, X11 (remote and local), VNC, rdesktop- I've all done it from CE.

            It's a failing of the current PDA Linuxes to make you create a swap file to get more RAM rather than an advantage. In WinCE, you just simply adjust the amount allocated to RAM vs Storage via a slider; on current PDA Linux, you have to install a hacked kernel (with hardcoded values) or create a swap space in your storage area.

            WinCE is very, *very* far from perfect. But so is Linux, on the PDA and otherwise. Anyone who thinks that WinCE or Linux are perfect is delusional.

            I've run bash on CE. Big deal. And, unlike with PDA Linux, I don't have to put up with substandard software. It may come as a shock, but a lot of folks want their PDAs to work well as PDAs and not just show-off toys at LUG meetings. :)

            My current main PDA is a Zaurus SL-C760. I'm not some whacky MS zealot. It's a shame so many Zaurus users are just Linux cheerleaders. The Zaurus could be a great platform, but no amount of talking about will make the PDA software available for the Z any better.
        • bring up an app like TaskMan to see you have the AddressBook, Calendar, ToDo, and Email all preloaded/running. Stop those apps and look at the memory used by the processes and you'll see something far less than 18MB Looks more like 5-6MB to me though System Info shows 13MB used. Strange. This is on a SL-5600( only 32MB of RAM ).

          Oh, and these are handheld computers and not PDAs. There's a big difference. Not to mention that these have been on the market for less than 2 years while MS-WinCE has been trying
      • Did you look at the price of this Linux PDA? What's the use of saving on licensing fees, if you have to spend all your money on memory to get the stupid OS to load.
      • Sure, if you're willing to pay the license for it and pass those costs on to the consumer.

        Linux has become the way to go embedded on the cheap. If you don't need an RTOS, what in QNX are you paying for?

        QNX, Linux. Bah. Just get a real OS and GUI that can work in 64k of ram like Contiki [dunkels.com].

    • Re:Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by swb ( 14022 )
      It seems that PDAs are in two camps. The original Palm philsophy of "simple-is-better" and the "full-fledged computer" camp, where complete OS functionality and compatibility is desired.

      Plus, "it runs Linux" and we all know how important *that* is...

    • Re:Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by supun ( 613105 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:36AM (#6400602)
      Depends. With Linux there is no license cost for the OS, with QNX there is. So if the cost of the extra memory to hold a bigger OS footprint, per unit, is less than the OS license, per unit, you'd go with the extra memory and Linux.
      • What about eCos [redhat.com]?

      • Re:Linux? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by GlassHeart ( 579618 )
        if the cost of the extra memory to hold a bigger OS footprint, per unit, is less than the OS license, per unit, you'd go with the extra memory and Linux.

        That's not all of it. The extra memory consumes extra power, which is a critical resource on any handheld device. It also makes the device physically larger and heavier, which are both important attributes. I'm not saying the equation necessarily changes because of these factors, but you can't just ignore them.

      • Depends. With Linux there is no license cost for the OS, with QNX there is.

        Like this is a big deal??? I want a Linux PDA, but they are still too expensive... When you are talking $500 for the hardware, what is another $20 or so for the software.

        <RANT>
        I thought that one advantage of using Linux was no "Microsoft Tax." Well, this may be true, but ther are a dozen Winblows CE devices cheaper than the cheapest current Zaurus or Yopy.

        In the 80's, Wendy's asked "where's the beef?" (remember that?

    • these things are high-end UNIX workstations (Score:4, Insightful)

      by 73939133 ( 676561 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @02:34PM (#6402362)
      Just about every PDA around today has the specs of a high-end UNIX workstation of a few years ago. Your average PDA today has a 200MHz RISC chip, 64Mbytes of RAM, hundreds of megabytes of Compact Flash storage, etc. Many UNIX workstation had 1/10th the compute power, memory, and disk storage.

      Furthermore, Linux and X11 aren't "high-footprint" at all by modern standards. Sure, on your desktop machine, they use lots of memory; that's because they can: people configure every feature into them and then they go on using lots of cache. On a PDA, you can squeeze a Linux kernel (I don't know about 2.4, but certainly older kernels) into a few hundred kbytes, and the X11 server and toolkit into less than a Mbyte. That's less than Windows CE or Qt/Embedded. It probably is even less than PalmOS 5. In fact, if you really want a small footprint OS, ucLinux is another option; it can even run on old Palm hardware (no MMU).

  • Not exactly in-depth review (Score:4, Informative)

    by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @09:59AM (#6400300) Homepage
    Short but, well, short.
    Here's the full text, 'cause ya never know.

    Apart from Sharp's Zaurus line, you don't hear too much about Linux-based PDAs - Pocket PCs and Palms tend to receive the bulk of the attention. We'd never heard of the company before, but G.Mate has a new Linux-powered PDA out, the Yopy 3700, which has a 206MHz processor, 128MB of RAM, a CompactFlash expansion slot, a 65,000 color screen, and a built-in keyboard. William Hungerford gives it high marks:
    The Yopy is based on an eye-pleasing clamshell design. With the screen down the Yopy is about the same depth as a paperback book, making it about twice as thick as the normal PDA. Most of the depth comes from the well designed, built-in keyboard. In fact, this keyboard is much more agreeable to my fat fingers than other keyboards I've used. When you flip open the cover you're presented with a good looking TFT LCD screen. Overall, this is beautiful hardware. The design is compact when not in use, but when opened the Yopy is quite user friendly. The really great thing about this PDA is the presence of both MC and CF card slots. To me, this is almost the perfect PDA design.

    --

  • For $499, it's hard not to consider the Zaurus... (Score:5, Informative)

    by bc90021 ( 43730 ) <bc90021&bc90021,net> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @09:59AM (#6400302) Homepage
    The reviewer does like the Yopy, but for an expected retail price of $499, you could get a Zaurus SL-5600 that has essentially all the same functionality, with a better processor (400MHz XScale as opposed to the older 206MHz). Granted, the 5600 only has 96MB RAM, but since they both have expansion slots, that's not really an issue.

    Also, the Zaurus already has a large developer community, and has drivers for things like wireless cards, and has plenty [handango.com] of [myzaurus.com] software [killefiz.de].

    I certainly don't want to see Yopy fail (competition is generally good, and having more Linux PDAs is good), but IMHO they should be offering a little more if they want to be competitive.
    • The 5600 only has 32MB of RAM for runtime memory, the rest is builtin flash RAM for storage. The 5500 had 64MB of RAM, with 32MB being battery-backed. With OpenZaurus or other third party images, you can actually use all 64MB of RAM in the 5500 for runtime, and just use an SD/MMC or CF card for long-term storage.

      The 400mhz XScale used in the 5600 and the C700 isn't a whole lot faster than the 200mhz CPU used in the 5500, but the CPU contributes to the much better battery life of the 5600 vs the 5500.

      But
    • Considering how the Yopy runs X11 as it's display layer, it's a bit of a fudge to say that the Zaurus has a larger developer community than the Yopy. There are more Z-specific developers than there are Yopy-specific, considering how something close to the majority of Zaurus apps are somewhat clumsily adapted from X11/Qt, no reason one can't simply count a clumsily adapted X11 app as a Yopy app. :P

      That said, the Yopy will likely fail. It's expensive and it doesn't do that much that anything else does. If

    • But the Zaurus isn't really a Linux platform (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I would love to have a true Linux PDA that allows me to run my current Linux software. Unfortunately, the Zaurus does not satisfy my needs, because the Zaurus isn't really a Linux platform.

      The Zaurus is a Qtopia platform.

      Qtopia is a GUI front-end that runs on top of Linux.

      Software written for the Zaurus is written for Qtopia. It will not run on a non-Qtopia distribution of Linux.

      Qtopia is proprietary. It is owned and maintained by Trolltech. It cannot be forked, at least, not if you hope to be able
    • I certainly don't want to see Yopy fail.

      I do. I'm sick of this "we're going to be coming out with it. Just wait and see" thing that gmate does.

      The first Yopy had it's release date pushed back two years. I'm not sure that this is not it. How are they even making money?

      I would like to have their resources and ideas put into another company that can actually deliver products.

    • I have a Zaurus SL-5500. It's nice for a few special applications: Wireless/Ethernet sniffing, computer remote control, a small music-over-IP receiver. And the keyboard on the thing is great.

      But as a PDA, I think the Zaurus line is not all that useful. I think the user interface on the Zaurus frankly sucks. It looks like they copied all the misfeatures of Windows CE: task bars, menu bars, title bars, 3D shaded widgets, wide scroll bars, etc; with a 320x240 screen, you can't afford to waste a lot of pix

  • So, it appears that... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Xeth ( 614132 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:00AM (#6400306) Journal
    ...They've finally ported Linux to the GBA:SP. 'Bout damn time, too...

  • *Ahem*! (Score:4, Informative)

    by TheScienceKid ( 611371 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:00AM (#6400313)
    MMC and CF not MC and CF iirc

  • Yopy vs. Zaurus (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gothmolly ( 148874 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:03AM (#6400326)
    It packs more RAM and more battery life than the Z-5500, but the Z still has equivalent features - MMC/SD slot (that does NOT honor the DRM of SD cards, btw), a CF slot, plus IR. The Zaurus is under very active development at OpenZaurus [openzaurus.org].
    • MMC/SD slot (that does NOT honor the DRM of SD cards, btw

      Unless they're using the key storage area as general-purpose storage, this isn't saying much.

      The card and the spec are divided into pieces. Most of the card is just sectors with no authentication to access them and no encryption done on the contents.

      That's why you get 62MB on a 64MB card (for something typically more expensive than SmartMedia or CompactFlash, grrr).

      The other 2MB or so is for key storage, is spec'd in a different volume & use

  • "really great thing" (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ih8apple ( 607271 )
    From the review: "The really great thing about this PDA is the presence of both MC and CF card slots."

    Considering how small my 8-in-1 reader is, I'm surprised they didn't just integrate in one of those and be able to read CompactFlash Type I (CF-I), CompactFlash Type II (CF-II), CompactFlash USB (CF-USB), CompactFlash Ultra (CF-Ultra), MultiMedia Card (MMC), Secure Digital Card (SD), Micro Drive, SmartMedia, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Switch, Magic Gate Memory Stick, and Magic Gate Memory Stick Duo memory

  • Sync with Windows only? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FosterSJC ( 466265 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:04AM (#6400334)
    Is this a joke:

    "At this point the Yopy is only designed to sync with the Windows Operating System."

    So I am supposed to dual-boot, first developing my own software in Linux, then boot into windows just to load it onto the device. NO THANK YOU. Zaurus it is.

    • Yes I think it may be (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      So I turn to my buddies while we were watching the game, and say "Ok, stop me if you've heard this one."

      "At this point the Yopy..." I paused and look at them, setting myself up the funny bomb... "is only designed to sync with the Windows Operating System."

      Well sir, I have never seen a group of grown men reduced to laugh spasms so quickly. We were all only half-drunk too, yet our but gusting chortling resonated across the suburbs.

      Yes sir, someone set you up for a funny night of PDA sync jokes and we are
    • It may come as a shock, but there is a difference between SYNCing devices like this and developing for them. Syncing involves ... synchronizing your PIM data most often, as well as installing applications. However, had you looked into it, you'd see that development is done with Linux, and there are a number of ways to do data transfers between the Yopy and Linux (as well as OS X, Windows). It's just PIM syncing which requires Windoze, which is still retarded, but you seemed to have confused a couple thin

  • I'm feeling a bit Yopy ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <splisken06.email@com> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:04AM (#6400336)
    but some Pepto and Kim Chee should clear that up.

  • Sounds good, but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi@yahoo. c o m> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:04AM (#6400341) Journal
    does it run Windows CE?

    • I call funny, flamebait, and insightful on you. I was wondering this too. If people find that too offensive, what about other OS's? BSD? A different set of GNU/Linux tools? QNX? Heck, BeOS?

      That said, at this price, I don't see myself rushing out to replace my iPAQ any time soon.

      • I totally agree. I've a C760, and if it wasn't for my own platform (Dynapad, see below), I'd be wishing that this machine ran CE. (vanilla WinCE, not PocketPC) The machine itself is amazing, but as a PDA (or even a "PMT" *snicker*), the QPE-based Linux PDAs leave a lot to desire as far as software.

  • Is that a Yopy3700 in your pocket? (Score:5, Funny)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:05AM (#6400346) Homepage Journal
    With the 128 megs of RAM, the Yopy really hums.

    That's all we needed now....PDA's that hum. Just build in a fan and heat sink, and we'll have people saying: "Hey, is that a Yopy 3700 in your pocket or are you really really really really happy to see me".

  • Price. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Kai_MH ( 632216 )
    There's gotta be a cheaper way to make a good Linux PDA. That's what's keeping me from buying a PDA... I'd rather carry around my custom ITX system with a 5" LCD.... Sorry.
  • im looking for one that would allow ssh access {slogin} to my server computers

    i cant seem to find any details on this

    anyone have any info?

    • Re:which one? (Score:3, Informative)

      by akaina ( 472254 )
      Get a Zaurus.
      not only can you run SSH on a konsole, but you can also run sshd and control your handheld using your desktop. They even have X11 and an Xserver for the Zaurus. You can even use VNC and take control of your windows GUI with a Zaurus.
      The Zaurus rules.

  • size (Score:5, Insightful)

    by leomekenkamp ( 566309 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:09AM (#6400367)

    With the screen down the Yopy is about the same depth as a paperback book

    I'm sorry, but 69 × 103 × 24.7mm means that this pda is about 14.7mm too thick for me. IMHO a pda should easily fit in a pocket.

    • Because I'm an American and I don't know how thick a milimeter is without picturing an inch and then trying to picture something that goes into that 2.54 times and then taking a tenth of that.

    • Re:size (Score:3, Interesting)

      by slide-rule ( 153968 )
      Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and size preference, but the dimensions listed by the parent are actually *smaller* than my Palm III in the little leather case I tote it around in (because, well, gravity happens). About the only pocket I wouldn't be able to put this smaller form factor into would be my jean pockets, but then I'm not going to put a PDA in my jean pockets either (because sitting happens). If I'm slumming, the side pocket of some cargo pants fit the bill... if I'm business-y,
  • It looks like the buttons would be small and hard to use. Then again, a linux-based pda without a full keyboard doesn't make much sense.

    200mhz is a teensy slow for a pda now, 128 megs is great.

    Anyone know anything about the battery life on that? CF is great also. My pda is stuck with sdio, and no wifi for it yet, just bluetooth.

    Not super compelling in my opinion, but it's great that the the selection of Linux PDAs is increasing. It will be better for everyone in the longs run, even users of Pocket
    • 200MHz is only slow when running Windows CE. The Tungsten is regarded as pretty much the quickest PDA (from the users point of view) yet only has a 177MHz processor.

      Its not how many Hz you got, its what you do with them!

  • Distribution in Europe (Score:5, Informative)

    by joestar ( 225875 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:13AM (#6400400) Homepage
    For your information, the Yopy machines are distributed in Europe by "TuXMedia" which I can really recommend, smart and efficient people. They also do Linux development/hack for the Yopy. Here is the URL: http://www.tuxmedia.com/ [tuxmedia.com] .

  • MMC and CF (Score:5, Informative)

    by iamacat ( 583406 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:13AM (#6400403)
    sounds like a bad design for a PDA. Memory cards are cheap and people would rather buy whatever kind than have bigger, fatter device. CompactFlash port, in particular is very bulky. As for plugins like a camera, USB would be a better interface. Doesn't it already have a USB port for the desktop?

    IRDA is also not really good for anything. People have to wiggle their devices for minutes just to send a business card. Forget about trying to HotSync with a laptop. Save that space for bluetooth or 802.11.

    • Re:MMC and CF (Score:2, Interesting)

      by unDiWahn ( 599102 )
      I don't have too much trouble with IRDA. As in, it works fine for me -- admittedly I don't use it an excessive amount.

      And no, USB likely wouldn't be a better choice, as to my knowledge there've only been two PDAs with the USB host controller built in -- meaning most PDAs can only act as a device on a pc, not a controller for cameras and the like.

      Compactflash is robust, and getting faster. The only other format to offer the same range of features is the blossoming range of Secure Digital devices.

      • Re:MMC and CF (Score:2, Informative)

        by ViXX0r ( 188100 )
        I have the Yopy 3000 and it DOES have a USB host controller built-in (it's available through some of the pins on the back under a slip-cover). Mind you I haven't found any good way to use it yet, but it's there and well documented.
    • CF is for IO expansion. At least on the Zaurus, typically you'd put memory in the SD slot and an 802.11B or Bluetooth in the CF slot. You can get SD 802.11B or Bluetooth cards, so maybe they'd be better off with 2 SD slots, but I'm dubious: most CF IO cards are slightly bigger than the slot, I'd hate to see you much an SD IO card protudes.

      Bryan
    • The whole reason to have MMC and CF is so you can use BOTH at the same time. On my Zaurus I use the MMC for extra storage and at the same time use my CF slot for my wireless card. Having 2 slots is great.

    • Re:MMC and CF (Score:2, Interesting)

      by gladed ( 451363 )
      IrDA not good for anything? IrDA less convenient than Bluetooth or 802.11? You've got to be kidding me. On a Palm, here's how to send a business card:
      • IrDA: hold down contacts button, point at target, *BAM* it's done.
      • Bluetooth: select business card, inquire for devices in range (3-5 seconds), select target device, punch in PIN codes, finally send the data.
      • WiFi: !?!?, curse, change batteries.

      IrDA takes up hardly any space in the design (you can easily find transceivers less than 10x5x4mm), uses hardly a

    • Re:MMC and CF (Score:3, Insightful)

      by theLOUDroom ( 556455 )
      sounds like a bad design for a PDA. Memory cards are cheap and people would rather buy whatever kind than have bigger, fatter device. CompactFlash port, in particular is very bulky. As for plugins like a camera, USB would be a better interface. Doesn't it already have a USB port for the desktop?

      There is a huge difference between a USB host controller and a USB device. In order to be a USB 1.1 compliant host you much be able to source 5VDC 1.2A Most PDAs are 3.3V internally, and carry nowhere near that
    • IRDA is also not really good for anything

      On my old PDA (Psion Revo) I use the IRDA port to connect to my GSM phone. This allows the PDA to control the phone (phonebook, ring signals, logos, SMS, etc). But the nicest feature is that it allows the PDA to phone ordinary modems, giving me internet access anywhere in the world.

      It's only 9600 baud, but that is OK for E-mail and short telnet sessions.
    • CompactFlash port, in particular is very bulky. As for plugins like a camera, USB would be a better interface.

      With a CF card, the device disappears almost entirely into the handheld. That's a good thing. With SDIO or MS expansion devices, the device mostly sits outside the handheld and is prone to breaking off.

      Doesn't it already have a USB port for the desktop?

      USB connections are not symmetric, so having a USB hotsync port tells you nothing about whether it can control a camera. But I think the Yop

  • You see (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:18AM (#6400435)
    ... the majority of people (ie. non Slashdot crowd) who will buy a PDA don't give a flying toss about what the underlying operating system is.

    For them:

    • It must do all the general PIM stuff well
    • It must be stable
    • It must be feature rich
    • It must support whatever media they currently use (MMC, SD etc.etc)
    • It must sync with their computer (note they say "computer" when they generally mean "windows").
    The fact that it's Linux based is not going to be a major selling point. When your data is on MC and CF cards, thats a major selling point.

    A story: One of my co-workers asked me what I thought about the up and coming Linux based Motorola phone. My comment was that the fact it was running Linux makes absolutely no difference. If Motorola implement the same horribly awkward , difficult to use and ugly interface that they have then nothing will have really changed.

    The underlying OS is largely irrelevant, it's what runs on top that makes all the difference.

    • Did you read the article? I quote:

      If this was a Palm or Pocket PC PDA, I'd say this is close to my perfect PDA. However, because of my lack of Linux Development knowledge, I was extremely limited in what I could do with the Yopy.

      This person- who likely didn't get the Yopy just because it runs Linux (like a lot of folks do with the Z) thought that it would've been great had this hardware been running PalmOS or PocketPC. Not only did the reviewer state that he was limited by the Yopy, but because he did

    • Re:You see (Score:3, Insightful)

      by timeOday ( 582209 )
      ... the majority of people (ie. non Slashdot crowd) who will buy a PDA don't give a flying toss about what the underlying operating system is.
      Most of the market for $500 PDA's *is* the slashdot crowd, and other computer enthusiasts.

      Somebody who doesn't know the difference between this and a $100 Palm buys the Palm.

      • Most of the market for $500 PDA's *is* the slashdot crowd, and other computer enthusiasts.

        Never underestimate the vocalness of a businessman with a lot of spare cash or a company willing to spend money on him.

        From what I've seen, that seems to be how the PocketPC pushed Palm out as the PDA of choice in a large number of UK based companies I've worked in.

  • Vaporware no more! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rudeboy777 ( 214749 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:19AM (#6400446)
    This thing has been in development a looooong time, here's a mention of it in an April 2000 Slashdot article: (No release date announced indeed [slashdot.org])

  • $499? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by markv242 ( 622209 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:25AM (#6400501)
    It astounds me that PDA makers continue to believe that they can charge more than $250 for their hardware and get any serious amount of sales. I haven't noticed a whole lot of innovation from PDA-makers (other than the Hiptop) and their core functionality (contacts, appointments, notes) has been co-opted by everyone from the cellphone makers to Apple with the iPod.

    Until someone can give me some really compelling reasons to upgrade from my old Handspring, I will continue to use my money to purchase more reasonable hardware upgrades: that is to say, more RAM for the laptop, bigger drives for the desktop, etc.

    • Re:$499? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by don_carnage ( 145494 )

      I've been shopping for a new PDA and it seems that the Dell Axim X5 [dell.com] at $200 beats anything else on the market for features and price. With Palm, for example, you'd have to pay close to $400 for a PDA with color, MP3, SD, CF, etc. and I just can't see spending that much on something that I use for maybe 2 hours a day.

      • I've been very impressed with my Casio BE-300. After the upgrade to one of the user-created OS mods, it's versatility for the price, along with the backlit colour screen and usable USB port, make it quite a deal, considering it is the cheapest colour PDA available on the market, to the best of my knowlege.

  • 128 MB ram... (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by Ravagin ( 100668 )

    Godsdamn. When bleeding-edge PDAs have as much memory as your laptop, I guess it's time to consider upgrading, huh?

  • This would have been really cool... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cpt_Kirks ( 37296 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:32AM (#6400566)
    ...about three years ago.

    Now that Linux runs on the Axim and the new Sharp toys are out, big deal.

    $500? No way.

  • Useability (Score:2, Funny)

    by darth_MALL ( 657218 )
    This is somewhat off topic... What do all the worlds geeks DO with their PDA's? Aside from email, notes, adresses? Seems to be an expensive use of my already premium pocket space. Is it just the "gadget factor" or are there folks who really rely on this type of device? BTW this one does sound cool, just hard to justify.

    • Re:Useability (Score:4, Funny)

      by defishguy ( 649645 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:49AM (#6400690) Journal
      We touch them... hold them, caress them. We play tragically old video games... we listen to mp3s. We coddle them in our open hands. We surf and use them as replacement short-term memories because we can forget a lot of things like what we say. We surf and use them as replacement short-term memories because we can forget about a lot of things like what we say. We use them to create whole new reasons for illicit software download sites ($5.00 and I'll send you the url). We use them as gravity test units and to support the "small lcd screen" industry by purchasing many repair screens. Shoot! If I had a degree in "folklore mythology" I would even use it to help me search for a job :-)

    • Re:Useability (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mrrc00 ( 516125 )
      I routinely use my Zaurus to remotely administer my home computer, check email, surf the web, type papers. Hell, my zaurus is more useful to me than my laptop.

      Oh, and running xeyes on it is very cool :)
    • I use mine around the house as a small wireless computer. My favorite use is reading my email and surfing the web while I'm taking a dump. Seriously, as soon as I wake up in the morning, i grab my Cassiopeia from the cradle, and head to the can. While I'm doing my business, I get caught up on my email, and check the weather, etc. A full blown laptop would be cumbersome for me.

      Another favorite use of mine is VNC from the sofa while I'm watching a movie. If my pager goes off while I'm in the middle of a

  • Lack of software?!?!?! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by shaunj ( 72350 )
    From the article, re: reasons linux on PDA's hasn't caught on.

    "And probably the biggest drawback is the Lack of Software compared to Palm and Pocket PC"

    What?!? What?!! How can they say this. My zaurus has so much software I don't know what to do with it. Since it's linux, stuff gets ports very quickly and there is a world of software at your fingertips. Just cause it's all free doesn't make it not there.
  • Not to sound like trolling but interesting to note that the price is not 499 units is any of the currencies of countries where it is sold !!

    The Yopy 3700 is developed in South Korea and is currently available in France, Austria and the UK for a MSRP of $499 US .

  • Perfect design...maybe, but the software? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Call Me Black Cloud ( 616282 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @11:06AM (#6400812)
    Also from that same review:

    Okay, now let's talk about the areas for improvement. Once I mastered the built in software, I was pretty much stuck. There are a few games included but that's about it. Until Yopy gets some Linux developers to help them out, there is very little software available. I also wasn't able to use my wireless card because of the lack of drivers. As I mentioned earlier, the lack of software isn't strictly a Yopy issue. Linux Operating systems for PDAs will only be as strong as the development community behind it. That brings up the next issue: at this point the Yopy is only designed to sync with the Windows Operating System.

    So to sum up:

    Very little software available

    Needs drivers

    Only syncs with Windows

    So what is the company hoping for?

    1. Linux geeks buy Yopy because it runs Linux
    2. Said geeks churn out software and drivers for it, because that's how it works in the open source world
    3. Sales increase because the Yopy is now attractive to the masses
    4. Profit!!!
    Why would the average PDA user purchase this instead of a Palm or Windows PDA? What can the Yopy do that existing systems can't? I am interested to see how this turns out...

  • Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Morgahastu ( 522162 ) <bshel@WEEZERroge ... fave bands name> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @11:16AM (#6400872) Journal
    "Overall, I'm quite impressed with this PDA. If this was a Palm or Pocket PC PDA, I'd say this is close to my perfect PDA."

    So everything is good about it except for the OS.

    He also says its "almost as stable" as the Palm OS.

    If this is such a great piece of hardware then why not go all out and put Palm OS on there?

    There target market obviosly is not linux users (lack of linux desktop support). what gives?

  • what's with the keyboards these days. I dont know how that would be more comfortable than my WinCE's natural handwriting recognition
  • Nice BricK(tm) design.

  • Too big (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Sandor at the Zoo ( 98013 )
    From the article:

    TheYopy is based on an eye-pleasingclamshell design.With the screen down the Yopy is about thesame depthas a paperback book, making it about twice as thick as the normal PDA.

    This is just too large. PDAs have been shrinking in size over the past five years or so, and this thing's just too big.

    Along with the lack of software, I see it as another linux hobbyist device.

  • "Yopy?" (Score:3, Funny)

    by theonetruekeebler ( 60888 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @01:56PM (#6402052) Homepage Journal
    I have no comment; I just like saying "Yopy."

  • 400Mhz vs 206Mhz (Score:3, Informative)

    by blind_abraxas ( 446151 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @01:57PM (#6402067)
    Does anyone recall the facts about the XScale processor at 400Mhz vs the 200Mhz older model?

    It's not that the clock speed is giving you double the performance. Anyone saying that 200Mhz is too slow for a PDA just isn't getting it.

    The 400Mhz processor for PDAs from Intel gives you pretty much the same performance as the 200Mhz previous model (might even be slightly less performance, I don't remember that clearly), the difference being the *power usage* is much better on the 400Mhz chip, giving you better battery life in your PDA.

    16-17 hours of normal usage life out of the Yopi is pretty good, and it might be that the Yopi is superior to the Zaurus on that score, and might widen the distance given the XScale processor, but that's just speculation on my part.
    • 16-17 hours of normal usage life out of the Yopi is pretty good,

      If it is anything like any of the other high end PDA's on the market than the "16-17 hours of normal use" is most likely based on about 8 or 9 of these "normal hours" being used with the screen off....

      Now if someone is saying that at the very least I could have a marathon solitaire session for 18 hours (backlight set to low) without the battery going dead....then I will be impressed. (I am jaded because I have dried 7 or 8 different c

  • The CPU is obsolete!!! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Be careful with this PDA - the CPU is in it's EOL (End Of Life).
    Intel Announced that the "206 MHz Intel Strong ARM 32 bits RISC Processor" is terminated. Actually it's DIGITAL SA1110.
    This is not a new design. A new design should rely on Intel Xscale CPU 200 or 400Mhz.

  • Still waiting.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by harborpirate ( 267124 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @02:56PM (#6402516)
    I'm still waiting for a PDA with a hard drive. To me, storing contact information isn't enough. And 128MB doesn't store enough to do much of anything else. I could get a few songs on there, an ebook or two, and maybe a really tiny little video, and contact information.

    Really, I don't see PDAs as a killer app until they can store large amounts of data without having to carry around a gazillion memory sticks. Then the usefulness becomes clear. Store and display every ebook I want to read. Store and play my music collection. Store and play a significant amount of video. Store whatever other data I want so that I can get at it wherever I happen to be. Oh, and store contact information.

    Yeah, I know, much larger (1GB+) memory sticks are on the horizon. But I see a lot of problems with those, such as very high initial cost and tremendous incompatibility issues. Portable hard drives are here now, they work reliably, and they are relatively cheap. Just add one to a PDA. Change to a bigger rechargeable battery if necessary.

    That, to me, would be worth shelling out some cash for. These PDAs with the bitty memory sticks? Toys.
    • Ah the extra battery life to keep an HD going is possible....If it happens to be a device that does not have a bunch of other "high drain" features. The screen and backlight alone are enough to tax even the highest NON hard drive PDA to a minimal few hours of use even on a bad boy extended battery....Throw a wireless NIC into the mix and your time in between charges has just dropped into a range that can be calculated without using the hour column.....Now if we were to throw a hard drive on top of that the

  • Can you say Tricorder? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Trogre ( 513942 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @04:47PM (#6403432) Homepage
    Am I the only one who looks at this and thinks: "Captain, I am picking up dangerous levels of methane and carbon monoxide, but no signs of intelligent life."

    Spec-wise, I'd still go for a Zaurus SL-5600 though.

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