Linksys Releases GPLed Code for WRT54G 335
petree writes "I stumbled across this on the Linksys website. Linksys has apparently caved to community pressure and released the GPLed source for linux running on their WRT54G. Cool Beans!"
Do molecular biologists wear designer genes?
Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:4, Interesting)
No I don't think they need to provide the other bits, but it sure would be nice to get some 802.11 drivers, etc.
--
+1 Karma bonus due to GPL Love & Low User ID.
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Viral" GPL gobbling "I.P." like pac-man with melanoma? Not really!
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wireless is subject to FCC regulations (Score:5, Insightful)
What I want, and what I know many other people want, is an 802.11g driver.
Many makers of 802.11g cards cannot lawfully provide such a driver under various radio frequency emission regulations. Because it's more expensive to build interlocks that prevent over-powered transmissions in hardware than in software, many cards implement the interlocks only in the driver. This makes it a bit harder to justify getting FCC approval for a driver for each platform.
Linksys has one. They choose not to release it?
Is it Linksys's choice, or is the Federal Communications Commission's choice to delay approval?
Re:Wireless is subject to FCC regulations (Score:5, Informative)
Is it Linksys's choice, or is the Federal Communications Commission's choice to delay approval?
Actually, it's probably neither. The driver is from Broadcom. It's mentioned in some of their online documentation. They probably haven't and won't release it, even as binary-only, because they'd rather license it to Linksys for an additional fee. I'm assuming a binary-only driver wouldn't incur the FCC regulations you're referring to.
Re:Wireless is subject to FCC regulations (Score:5, Informative)
Supporte
Card Chip Bus
D-Link DWL-AB650 AR5211 Cardbus
D-Link DWL-AG520 AR5212 PCI
D-Link DWL-AG650 AR5212 Cardbus
Linksys WMP55AG AR5212 Cardbus
Linksys WPC51AB AR5211 Cardbus
Linksys WPC55AG AR5212 PCI
Netgear WAB501 AR5211 Cardbus
Netgear WAG511 AR5212 Cardbus
Those drivers are beta quality but work.
There is object file which hides radio interface.
AFAIK everything else is open.
Re:Wireless is subject to FCC regulations (Score:4, Insightful)
Irrelevant. The ISDN subsystem of Linux has exactly the same problem (well, even worse, regulation is stricter in the old telco world), and there is source code. Some versions have even been certified, and it's legal to run them on public networks.
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:5, Insightful)
The original flash image was decoded (by Andrew Miklas) as a cramfs filesystem. We have *all* the components available in binary form. Unless there is crytographic checking in the bootloader (i.e. a signed flash image) we're all set to go make our own images complete with Linksys's proprietary binaries and our hacked/improved GPL binaries.
To my knowledge, nobody has done this yet. I hope that doesn't last long. These units will make lovely general-purpose embedded machines if we can put our own code in them. We'd have to rely on Linksys binaries for some of the hardware, but personally I have no ideological problem with that. What I want is to be able to fix some bugs of the bugs and interface stupidities in the darn thing, and to add some of my own functionality, such as being able to ssh into it. Of course, I'd like it even more if Linksys released the full hardware specs, but hey. It's a start.
Now, I see the kind of hacking I described above, and which I fully intend to get involved in, as nothing but good for Linksys. If it turns out we can reflash the unit as it appears we can, I for one will be in the market for a few more of these.
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is using Linksys software on the Linksys hardware that it was provided with. How is it copyright violation?
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think it could possibly be a copyright violation. Linksys more or less have to allow it, otherwise I think they could be in violation with the GPL on the kernel and some of the other stuff they are using.
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Provided you are modifying the unit for your own purposes and not redistributing the Liksys binary code, how exactly does this qualify as pirating?
Personally, I run my business on Linux and have implemented it in several companies where the Linux system itself was replacing a pirated copy of Linux.
I can only assume you are trolling here...
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:5, Insightful)
They should've used NetBSD if they don't like the GPL and releasing the source.
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Nice, but not a ton of info from it. (Score:3, Informative)
There is nothing wrong with the test he performed. I tried the same and got a 14.3MB patch. But though there is this amount of changes, I don't believe Linksys wrote it all. In particular I noticed a lot of XFS stuff. It could be that Linksys is really using a different kernel version and just changed the version number to match a closed source driver, they didn't want to recompile. Or i
Does this mean we can work on the firmware? (Score:5, Interesting)
Binary modules are legal. (Score:4, Insightful)
Keeping IP in binary modules is fairly straght formward way to partition IP in kernel space and is fairly common in the embedded industry.
Now I know RMS and others frown on this, but it is not illegal.
Re:Binary modules are legal. (Score:2, Interesting)
Forget the drivers. Just look through the application source. Where are the linksys mods?? Are you telling me that they took the stock version of those OSS projects and just shipped them? Bullshit! There are always local mods, even trivial ones, so where are they? Take a look at what transmeta does to their open sources. They have local mods all over the place.
Actual text of GPL (Score:3, Interesting)
Quote:
The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program" means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another language.
Think about it. They distributed the source for the "Program" as outlined above. "A work based on the
New linux toy? Oh yeah (Score:5, Interesting)
A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:5, Interesting)
Excessive perhaps, for just the room, but if their dorm is anything like mine was [wisc.edu] with a den down the hall or a study room in the basement or grassy areas out in front, a wireless connection like this would be pretty sweet.
Re:A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:2)
Re:A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:3)
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:3, Informative)
I'm posting this from my laptop, which is only 20 feet from my AP, firewall, and DSL modem, but it's still nice not to have to run a cable across the room for someone to trip over...
Re:A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:3, Insightful)
I often use my wireless connection sitting just a few yards from my access point. Sure beats dealing with a cable.
Re:A wireless network. For a dorm room. (Score:5, Funny)
Come out of the closet (Score:5, Insightful)
I bet you like playing raquetball in the closet, too, don'tcha?
Hidden costs of cat5 (Score:3, Funny)
What about the BEFW11S4? (Score:4, Interesting)
Mod parent up (Score:2)
Ah, Linksys (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Ah, Linksys (Score:2, Insightful)
People say they are an evil corporation trying to hide their secrets and prevent users of rare operating systems from using their product.
A company makes hardware, they release software & driver code to public.
People say they want others to do their coding.
You just can't win can you?
Next stop: Drivers (Score:2, Interesting)
From what I read, they use the same Broadcom chipset as the access points, which means Linux drivers do exist, in spite of their not being released to anyone.
Finally (Score:3, Insightful)
If they had not released the source would buy their products again, to be honest I certainly would because they are the cheapest.
If you would not, does their decision to release the source change your mind?
Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)
If they had not released the source would buy their products again...
If they had not released the source, they would be breaking the law. The world is still holding its breath for the first case of the FSF kicking ass in court.
And now what? (Score:5, Funny)
Are you going to comb through the code only to find that it's not that much different from the other code you never look at?
Face it, if it some source is vital to your company staying competitive, it isn't going to be GPL'd.
Re:And now what? (Score:5, Funny)
Because I can.
So... (Score:2)
Hopefully all of this commotion has not dissuaded Linksys from using the Linux kernel (in an appropriate fashion) in their future products.
-Erwos
Its nice to see (Score:5, Insightful)
Cool Beans? (Score:5, Funny)
Is it also "rad" that the code was released?
My apologies, I'm on a tear today. Hella has to go the way of "cool beans", but it looks like these things never die. *sighs*
Hella? (Score:4, Funny)
really, I've been hating the term hella since the late 80's.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have some rad code to write that is really too hip to be square, dude.
Re:Cool Beans? (Score:2)
Don't diss da phrases, foo', or you gonna get tossed! [wisc.edu]
Never enough, though. (Score:2, Interesting)
I use one of these access points; my first network nmap after installing it was disconcerting. I had thought that someone was war driving, when I found the 2.4.5 -O.
The last thing I expected to find was a Linux kernel.
At least they had the __________ to step up and honor the GPL.
Not the full OS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not the full OS (Score:5, Insightful)
They complied with the GPL...they weren't required to do anything else, nor should a commercial enterpise be expected to do more if it doesn't aid their business.
-psy
Re:Not the full OS (Score:2)
They complied with the GPL...they weren't required to do anything else, nor should a commercial enterpise be expected to do more if it doesn't aid their business.
Although, perhaps it would aid their business. It's not like they're in the business of selling hardware at a loss only to make up for it in software sales like the console makers.. Software from third parties only adds to the value of their bricks, and you can bet your ass that their warranty excludes any hacking of the things anyway, so there
Re:Not the full OS (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus, if people were able to reprogram the unit, I'm not sure how that'd really help the community. You'd probably see a bunch of people doing silly "hacks" with the system and a bunch of confused users not knowing what "distribution" to run on their Linksys access point.
-psy
Re:Not the full OS (Score:3, Insightful)
Replace "Linksys access point" with "computer", another term that accurately describes the unit. See the problem? Thing is, people like things they can play with, and other people like those people to play with those things, because inn
Re:Not the full OS (Score:2)
Don't forget that Linksys is an Americancompany...so they're differentiating themselves from the "Taiwanese crowd" not the "rest of the Taiwanese crowd". ;-)
Also, based on the analog that people like to play with things and the Linksys is an embedded computer system, then you can take that to the Nth degree and start asking Ford to provide you with the ECU firmware for your SUV, or asking LG to provide you with the fi
Re:Not the full OS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not the full OS (Score:2)
And their development group is barely capable of producing a working wireless router as is. If they released the sources, people could fix their bugs and build new, interesting services with it.
That would mean selling a lot more boxes, instead of what
Re:Not the full OS (Score:3, Insightful)
Several companies have released (under GPL or otherwise) software that they don't legally have to. Apple (Darwin) is a prominent example.
Re:Not the full OS (Score:3, Interesting)
From the GPL: For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable.
Now what I miss is the
Need drivers for the 802.11g (Score:4, Informative)
just one product (Score:2)
Re:just one product (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course you're correct about that. But what's wrong with being nice to them just now. Let's watch them be shocked when sales of the unit tick upward, then let's ask for more, ok?
Of course, the above depends on being able to reflash the thing successfully, and as far as I can see, that's going to be a whole lot easier than the XBox was, plus more useful, including being useful to
More Info (Score:5, Informative)
http://lkml.org/archive/2003/6/7/164/index. html
is not up right now so here is the text.
Andrew Miklas
linux.kernel
Jun 7 2003
Hi,
Sorry for the very lengthly posting, but I want to be as precise as possible in describing this problem.
Awhile ago, I mentioned that the Linksys WRT54G wireless access point used several GPL projects in its firmware, but did not seem to have any of the source available, or acknowledge the use of the GPLed software. Four weeks ago, I spoke with an employee at Linksys who confirmed that the system did use Linux, and also mentioned that he would work with his management to ensure that the source was released. Unfortunately, my e-mails to this individual over the past three weeks have gone unanswered. Of course, I also tried contacting Linksys through their common public e-mail accounts (pr@linksys.com, mailroom@linksys.com) to no avail.
However, it is hard for me to know if my contact in the company has just gone on a three week vacation (and not set an auto-responder), or has been asked to not answer anymore mail on this subject. Also, I should note that I don't own this product, so I can't determine if the source is shipped with it. However, I have gone through all the available information on the Linksys website, and can find no reference to the GPL, Linux (as it relates to this product), or the firmware source code. Also, the firmware binary (see below) is freely available from their website. There is no link from the download page to the source, or any mention of Linux or the GPL. Finally, it would be strange if the source was included in the physical package, as my contact at Linksys was initially unaware Linux was used in this product.
The following steps can be used to determine the exact nature of the possible GPL violation.
1. Go to the following URL:
http://www.linksys.com/download/firmware.asp?fwid= 178
2. Download the "firmware upgrade files":
ftp://ftp.linksys.com/pub/network/WRT54G_ 1.02.1_US _code.bin
(MD5SUM: b54475a81bc18462d3754f96c9c7cc0f)
3. While it is downloading, confirm that there is nothing on the webpage to indicate that this binary contains GPLed software.
4. Once the download is complete, copy the ontents of the file from offset 0xC0020 onward into a new file.
dd if=WRT54G_1.02.1_US_code.bin of=test.dump skip=24577c bs=32c
5. Notice that this file is an image of a CramFS filesystem. Mount it.
6. Explore the filesystem. You will notice that the system appears to be based on Linux 2.4.5.
Incidentally, there is at least one other GPLed project in the firmware:
the BusyBox userland component: (http://www.busybox.net/)
7. The Linux kernel (I think) is mixed up with a bunch of other stuff in: bin/boot.bin
You might want to know why I am interested in getting the code for the kernel used in this device.
There's been some discussion here about Linux's lack of wireless support for a few of the newer 802.11b and (nearly?) all 802.11g chips. Incidentally, Linux has excellent support for at least one manufacturer's wireless family. The following Broadcom chips all appear to be supported under Linux -- if you happen to be running Linux on a MIPS processor in a Linksys router:
Broadcom BCM4301 Wireless 802.11b Controller
Broadcom BCM4307 Wireless 802.11b Controller
Broadcom BCM4309 Wireless 802.11a Controller
Broadcom BCM4309 Wireless 802.11b Controller
Broadcom BCM4309 Wireless 802.11 Multiband Controller
Broadcom BCM4310 Wireless 802.11b Controller
Broadcom BCM4306 Wireless 802.11b/g Controller
Broadcom BCM4306 Wireless 802.11a Controller
Broadcom BCM4306 Wireless 802.11 Multiband Controller
This list was produced by running strings on:
lib/modules/2.4.5/kernel/drivers/net/wl/wl.o
I am trying to determine exactly how tightly coupled these drivers are to t
Re:More Info (Score:2, Informative)
Even if wl.o is binary only, you may still use iwconfig/iwpriv to set wireless parameters.
I don't agree your opinion that Broadcomm wireless module has to be covered by GPL. How can NVIDIA do binary-only driver but not Broadcomm?
I know this is a bit of a tangent, but. (Score:2)
Unfortunately, I seem to have misplaced my bookmark for that article. It'd be great to get a pointer to that discussion or even spark a new discussion here, as I'm finally wanting to buy into the technology, now.
Re:I know this is a bit of a tangent, but. (Score:2)
Thank them (Score:5, Insightful)
It really is the polite thing to do. Plus it always feels good to be appreciated, and that goes for people who run big companies.
Re:Thank them (Score:3)
About the only thing Linksys deserves is being closely watched for future violations (or piracy, to use an industry term).
i'll GPL you (Score:5, Funny)
Re:i'll GPL you (Score:2)
This reminds me... (Score:3, Funny)
So, this other guy comes along and says, "I'm not afraid of you! I'm e to the x."
"Well that's just too bad, I'm d/dy!"
Hey! (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Still in violation (Score:4, Interesting)
#/* Copyright 1988,1990,1993 by Paul Vixie
# * All rights reserved
# *
# * Distribute freely, except: don't remove my name from the source or
# * documentation (don't take credit for my work), mark your changes (don't
# * get me blamed for your possible bugs), don't alter or remove this
# * notice. May be sold if buildable source is provided to buyer. No
# * warrantee of any kind, express or implied, is included with this
# * software; use at your own risk, responsibility for damages (if any) to
# * anyone resulting from the use of this software rests entirely with the
# * user.
# *
# * Send bug reports, bug fixes, enhancements, requests, flames, etc., and
# * I'll try to keep a version up to date. I can be reached as follows:
# * Paul Vixie uunet!decwrl!vixie!paul
# */
And so it looks like until linksys gives credit properly in the documentation to Paul Vixie they are still in violation of licensing agreements.
Still in violation -- I don't think so.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Paul Vixie's license perhaps?
I don't think so:
Some of the released code isn't GPL... (Score:4, Interesting)
(He's better known for BIND, MAPS, PAIX, MFNX, etc.)
Okay, so now what? (Score:3, Interesting)
Great, GPL the code. But now make it useful for me.
Re:Okay, so now what? (Score:2)
Sorry man that won't work; you snort coke; you have to eat acid. Or at least let it sit on your tongue a while.
Re:Okay, so now what? (Score:3, Interesting)
Looks like it might be pretty straightforward to unpack the cramfs system, add a tiny
So when does SCO file suit? (Score:2, Funny)
Gotta love Open Source (Score:4, Funny)
Terms of Use? (Score:3, Interesting)
On a different topic, even if Linksys hasn't provided the 'correct' source code, as suggested by some, their acknowledgement of the GPL should at least mean open slather on reverse engineering any binary which has a hint of GPL to it.
Calm down, folks. (Score:5, Insightful)
Linksys got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. They probably didn't think twice about using embedded Linux; in fact, they may not have even made the decision themselves.
When the problem was pointed out to them, they gave several weeks of no conclusive answers, and now they've put up a simple web page with some source tarballs, all or none of which may be what's actually running on the APs. You can't even FIND the page using their support search engine (a search on GPL shows no hits), and they're certainly not announcing it anywhere I've seen.
It's the least they could do. Approximately.
Re:Calm down, folks. (Score:3, Informative)
The paths I tried were:
1. Search box from the front page of www.linksys.com.
2. Product page for the AP in question.
3. Downloads section of the site.
You're right, it is obvious if you go to the support page first (I usually don't for this site, because having been there so many times, there are less clicks involved to get to drivers via the products page). But one would think that the search engine would index a superset of the support section...
In any event, the rest of my comment st
don't bother (Score:2)
In the end, Linksys APs are just not very good. I have had two, and both of them have had serious bugs. They are now stuck in a closet. Furthermore, their functionality was pretty limited as well.
So, if you want something hackable or powerful, don't bother with the Linksys APs. You are better off with a Mini-ITX [mini-itx.com] board running Linux or BS
Cisco... (Score:2, Offtopic)
Not only Linksys... (Score:2, Informative)
Sweet! (Score:3, Funny)
What linksys didnt release is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What linksys didnt release is... (Score:3, Insightful)
GCC: (GNU) 3.0 20010422 (prerelease) with bcm4710a0 modifications
I don't follow GCC versions that closely. Does that indicate a customized (non-public) version of GCC?
Any reason to think that a current GCC 3.xx won't work with this target hardware?
Re:What linksys didnt release is... (Score:3, Informative)
Caved in due to "Community Pressure" (Score:3, Interesting)
IMHO, Linksys just honors the license of the software they used. Maybe they just strayed a bit, but it's not like they are actively trying to violate it. Why don't we put a better positive word to the situation? It will make the "community" sound like a more pleasant entity to interact with when we don't go pressuring people for what we want.
great, but what about the WPC54G? (Score:3, Insightful)
No such luck (Score:4, Funny)
with the Barricade I've got from SMC (it's got Linksys firmware).
The firmware .bin is an arj'ed file, but the only thing of interest in the unpacked file is this string:
Hey Moe, it dont woik. NYUK NYUK NYUK NYUK *bop* Owww!
In the WRT54G, one of the first strings is:
piggy
Hm
Re:They are still in violation (Score:4, Funny)
I am aghast and appalled at your continuing flagrant violation of the GNU Public License. Your paws are dirty with the hard work of many hundreds of thousands of kernel developers who you ripped off by $elling the kernel code back to them without supplying the full source code for your product. Through this illegal action you have raised my and The Community's ire and we will stand and fight until you fully comply with the GPL. All your source MUST be turned over to The Community at once.
Please be aware that I am not alone in this battle. I am dogged and relentless and using the power of the Internet I will bring you into compliance with the GPL.
Don't fuck with us, Link$y$.
Sincerely,
Anonymous Coward
Re:gpl strikes again (Score:5, Insightful)
GPL: free as in 'we can use it but we have to share.'
"...NetBSD is the most supperior embeded Open Source OS on Earth which runs on over 35 architectures."
what does the number of architectures have to do with whether or not its good?
Impressive, but one doesn't mean the other.
I like BSD, but statements lke that are just irritating.
Now if you'll excuse be, I have a bike shed to paint.
Re:gpl strikes again (Score:5, Insightful)
BSD: free as in 'Look someone else did our work for us, and we don't have to give anything back'
Umm. Look, this is EXACTLY what BSD developers expect. This why it's released BSD. Shall I break out the dictionary definition of free? I'll give you a hint, it means having no restrictions. The GPL is very much a restriction. It is a very different philosophy than BSD and public domain code. It is in no way free as in the definition of the word.
Rather, it caters to a specific ideology, namely that of the FSF. Granted, you may consider GPL to be free, and it is certainly freer than proprietary software, but it is not quite as free as BSD and public domain.
You can be selfish and require people to share with you if you like. But, statements like yours are really irritating to those of us who want to give our code away for free.
The guys comment was very informative given the news story. Linksys doesn't want to 'share' with you. They shouldn't have used GPL code then, but rather BSD code. Right?
And please don't go on about how they *should* share. They are under no obligation to do so, if they did the country they operate from would certainly not be considered a free country anymore.
Re:gpl strikes again (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know if I'd consider that too selfish. Sometimes, code takes a lot of effort to design, write, test etc. And I think some return on that investment is not an unreasonable desire. Is it selfish to go to your employer at the end of the day and ask for a paycheck? A share of the value that both of you have produced together?
Some software I release under the BSD license. I do this when I don't ever want to hear from that partic
Re:gpl strikes again (Score:5, Insightful)
Not very hard, is it?
Re:gpl strikes again (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, Linksys would have used BSD if BSD worked as well for them as Linux does. But Linux is better, supports more hardware, and supplies more of the features they need. That's because more programmers work on Linux, and that in turn is because of the licence - we know that our contributions to the public are going to *stay* public.
And by the way, I like BSD. I think there's some stuff in BSD that's better than Linux. I'm no fanatic, I'm just explaining the phenomenon.
Anyway, what's the big deal for Linksys if they accidently ended up letting everybody reprogram their hardware? It just means they sell more of it and make more money. That's gotta hurt, huh?
Re:gpl strikes again (Score:2)
Of course, if they'd changed any of the GPL code, they'd have to release their changes. But Linux already makes a perfectly good router without any modifications, if you provide drivers for the hardware.
Re:What the heck (Score:2, Informative)
Re:802.11g *nix drivers (Score:5, Informative)