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Desktops (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

Apple Marketing Hypes New PowerMacs 1022

Wacky_Wookie was only one of many who wrote in with a mention of Apple's "leak" of specifications for a new line of PowerMacs to be dubbed "G5", apparently running the new PowerPC 970 CPUs. No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :) Update by J : In case those linked sites get taken down too, try MacNN.
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Apple Marketing Hypes New PowerMacs

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  • Well then... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Uart ( 29577 ) <<feedback> <at> ...>> on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:14AM (#6252315) Homepage Journal
    I guess it seems that all the speculation was right on the money.

    And I still can't afford it...

    • by nattt ( 568106 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:22AM (#6252371)
      Actually, the real specs seem slightly better than the rumours indicated. The real killer punch will be if they're cheaper than the current power macs.
      • Re:Well then... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by BJZQ8 ( 644168 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:32AM (#6252431) Homepage Journal
        Apple....CHEAPER? I really, really doubt it. Macophiles have always been willing to pay a premium for the "newest" thing from the Big A. I'd think you'd be lucky to get out of the door for less than $5000 for a fully-loaded G5. I think my old iMac's and newer Microtels will run this school just fine, thank you.
        • Re:Well then... (Score:5, Informative)

          by mcwetboy ( 561083 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:23AM (#6253443) Homepage Journal
          Since we're talking about rumours, this one here [] suggests that PPC 970s are cheaper for Apple to acquire than G4s by 25-35 per cent. While that in itself may have no bearing on the final price point of these new machines -- other technologies on the mobo might also have something to do with that -- it suggests, contrary to what some are expecting, that Apple might be able to at least hold prices at or near to current price points. Couple that with the fact that Apple really does want to boost sales of its Power Macs and has been somewhat more aggressive on price lately than they used to be.
        • by mbourgon ( 186257 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:46AM (#6253699) Homepage
          Well, yeah... putting 8 gig of RAM in _anything_ will up the price...
        • mac prices (Score:4, Informative)

          by johnpaul191 ( 240105 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @01:05PM (#6255208) Homepage
          *if* these machines are true, i would expect them to roughly follow the current prices. maybe the top of the line custom workhorse will jump up to a higher bracket, but in general i bet they start at the same place. i don't know about all the components, but what i have read about the PPC970 chips is that they actually cost a lot less than the G4s (as well as use less power and consume less energy). If the last statement is true, it makes you wonder how loing the G4s will be around for anything but upgrades to existing machines (seems the 970 will not work with current motherbopards).

          macs *usually* fall into a pricing structure and somewhat stay the same after updates. it's not like these (if they are real) will be stacked on top of the current machine's prices and start at $4,000..... the G4 some poor citizen buys today will be dropped in price by hundreds of dollars monday if these show up. sometimes they sort of shift up and down a step according to conditions of the market. For example, for a long time there has been an emac/imac right at or around $999. I guess this pricing method is what caused their price protection deal where if you buy a machine and the price officially drops in 2 or 4 weeks (depends on who you ask?) they will refund the change.
    • Oh yes you can /student loan :)
  • New Mac (Score:5, Interesting)

    by stanmann ( 602645 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:15AM (#6252322) Journal
    The reasons to have your next PC upgrade be a Mac keep increasing, and the only thing that might make the PC platform attractive are the rumors that HP will be releasing an Opteron soon. Personally I can't wait till I can have a 64-bit desktop machine with built in Gigabit.
    • $$$$$$$$Money (Score:3, Interesting)

      by siskbc ( 598067 )
      The reasons to have your next PC upgrade be a Mac keep increasing, and the only thing that might make the PC platform attractive are the rumors that HP will be releasing an Opteron soon. Personally I can't wait till I can have a 64-bit desktop machine with built in Gigabit.

      The main reason that I'll be waiting for is the ability to be able to put together a pretty good system for $600. I love MacOS, but until they go after the low end, there are a lot of us who will keep dual-booting linux (or BSD) and wi

      • Re:$$$$$$$$Money (Score:5, Insightful)

        by cybercuzco ( 100904 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:58AM (#6253818) Homepage Journal
        The main reason that I'll be waiting for is the ability to be able to put together a pretty good system for $600.

        And Ill wait to buy a Ferrari when they have one thats less than $20,000. Apple doesnt go for the low end because it doesnt have to, and it couldnt gaurentee the quality its got if it did. You get what you pay for.

  • But you can get it from here [].
    Also more on the story here [].
  • huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Frac ( 27516 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:19AM (#6252347)
    No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :) -- Michael

    No offense, anyone who has half a clue is fully aware that Apple is particularly fascist and litigious regarding details of product launches leaking out. In particular, Steve Jobs simply loves the "wow" he gets from the audience by completely surprising them. In this case, few people actually expected DUAL 2Ghz PPC970 (G5) configurations available. Now, people are going to be less surprised on Monday.

    Surely Michael is welcome to tell us how much he understands marketing and what products has he actually marketed, and we can see how much his credentials stack up against someone in charge of Apple and Pixar.
  • Ah, naming (Score:5, Funny)

    by Faust7 ( 314817 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:19AM (#6252348) Homepage
    The new desktops will indeed be branded 'G5'.

    Man, I couldn't be more shocked if the next version of Windows was called 2004 or 2005. What will they think of next? ;)
  • by mithras the prophet ( 579978 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:20AM (#6252354) Homepage Journal
    * 1.6Ghz, 1.8Ghz, or dual 2Ghz PowerPC G5 Processors
    * Up to 1 Ghz processor bus (!!)
    * Up to 8 GB of DDR SDRAM
    * Fast Serial ATA hard drives
    * AGP 8X Pro graphics options from NVIDIA or ATI
    * Three PCI or PCI-X expansion slots
    * Three USB 2.0 ports
    * One FireWire 800, two FireWire 400 ports
    * Bluetooth & Airport Extreme ready
    * Optical and analog audio in and out

    Quite a leap from the current dual 1.42Ghz G4 boxes, with a 166Mhz bus...
  • mmmmm, NUMA! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mekkab ( 133181 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:20AM (#6252360) Homepage Journal
    I'm sure these would be set at the "You Have To Be KIDDING me!" price point, but I'm sure these would be delicious machines to get a hold of.

    Would these be CHRP (common hardware ref. platform) compliant? Or has apple abandoned that? Cuz then you could run MacOS, or Linux, or AIX all native on the same box.
    • Re:mmmmm, NUMA! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 11223 ( 201561 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:09AM (#6252695)
      Don't be so sure. There's been rumors that the PP970 may indeed be cheaper than the current G4 line. Remember, Moto doesn't sell a lot of 1.42 GHz G4s to its primary customers, but IBM is looking forward to selling a lot of 970s. Mass production on that delicious new East Fishkill fab could make it significantly cheaper than whatever Moto manages to push out.
  • by customs ( 236182 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:22AM (#6252368)
    Remember the iMac flat panel introduction? Time Canada posted the news story to their website early monday morning, according to their normal news cycle...containing the story of the iMac FP with lots of fun pictures.

    I can see it now in the keynote: "As some of you MAY have already heard (insert laughter) we have....(insert product announcements)"


  • by Zayin ( 91850 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:23AM (#6252381)

    Expansion will be provided by three "PCI or PCI-X" slots, and - for the first time on a Mac - USB 2.0 ports, of which there are three.

    To avoid any consumer confusion, Apple also stated that the USB 2.0 ports, previously called USB 1.1, were not "high speed" USB 2.0, but rather "ordinary" USB 2.0 (USB 1.1). The PCI slot will also be rebranded to PCI-X due to high customer demand for PCI-X slots. To make this clear, they also announced plans to rebrand the PCI-X slot as "PCI-X ultra high speed" and the PCI slot to "PCI high-speed". USB 2.0 ultra-mega-super-high speed expansion ports (previously called USB 2.0 high-speed) were also rumored.

  • by berniecase ( 20853 ) * on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:26AM (#6252395) Homepage Journal
    Going back through my memory, I can think of a couple other very important leaks:

    * ATI leaks news of updated PowerMac G4s (and summarily gets poor product placement in them afterwards, with Apple favoring Nvidia for years to come)
    * Time Canada posts story of new flat-panel iMac before paper issue even hits the streets.

    I'm sure there have been more, but those seem to be the most important.

    This one will go down as probably the most significant leak in quite a while.
  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:30AM (#6252422)
    No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :)

    Oooh, now thanks to Michael, I understand those devious marketdroids. Silly me, I thought the halloween document [] was a real leak, or at least a fake, but now I understand why Microsoft's image and sales have sky-rocketed since its release : it's because their marketing department released it on purpose !
  • G5 name is taken.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Faeton ( 522316 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:37AM (#6252460) Homepage Journal
    The G5 name has been taken by Canon's sweet new 5 megapixel camera. They had the G1, G2, G3 and now the G5. They actually skipped G4 name due to possible trademark issued with Apple. I guess that's secretly ironic.

    Otherwise, with those specs, it's about time. When it does come out, it will at least give Intel/AMD a run for the money (remember, the 64 bit stuff will be out by then), instead of eating their dust.

  • by shatfield ( 199969 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:40AM (#6252477)
    You.. You are FIRED...
    and YOU! You are SOOO FIRED!
    and you... you too are very VERY FIRED!

    But.. I wasn't even HERE yesterday!

    I don't care! You are FIRED!
  • by henele ( 574362 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @08:49AM (#6252541) Homepage
    A relevant picture can still be found on an Akamai Mirror [] (taken from an write-up here []
  • Insane speed! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nozpamming ( 664873 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:00AM (#6252608)
    After all the whining out there about wether this is a hoax, marketing hype or a simple mistake let's not forget that if this is true it truly is insanely great news.

    Two 970's at 2 GHz with bus bandwith! Earlier (leaked) numbers of tests put the 970 at between 1.5 and 2.5 times as fast as a pentium 4. That makes these machines the equivalent of a 6-10 GHz machine. Now of course, we'll have to wait and see and two procs are not doubly as efficient as one but great news this would be nonetheless.

    Oh yeah.
    • Re:Insane speed! (Score:4, Informative)

      by pmz ( 462998 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:39AM (#6253611) Homepage
      That makes these machines the equivalent of a 6-10 GHz machine.

      Almost. The dual 2GHz G5 would be like a 6-10 GHz Pentium 4.

      Quite honestly, this would be true of any dual 2GHz UltraSPARC III, Itanium 2, or recent Alpha (if these CPUs ran that that clock rate). If you extrapolate the numbers at, the Pentium 4 looks really weak by comparison (e.g., the Alpha fp-rate numbers blew me away--it's really too bad HP is marketing the Itanic). Even the often-slammed UltraSPARC III is a fp-rate monster (it just lags in the integer stuff).
  • by KFury ( 19522 ) * on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:02AM (#6252621) Homepage
    I bet Jobs shit his pants.
  • by wfberg ( 24378 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:02AM (#6252622)
    Apple are using the new kit internally, in the web site department. And it's just too damn fast!
  • Understanding (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kerry-buckley ( 647774 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:03AM (#6252634)
    No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :)

    And anyone who thinks these specs would be deliberately leaked three days before a "Stevenote" doesn't understand Apple.

  • by Erik K. Veland ( 574016 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:12AM (#6252727) Homepage
    Be the guy in the audience to get a camera trown at you by wearing the G5-specs T-shirts [] !
  • by Rouxfus ( 567556 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:18AM (#6252774)
    I seriously doubt this was a "strategic leak" to use the phrase from the Ginger book excerpt. When the image started hitting the web (MacRumors, Ars forums, MacMinute, iChat) Apple quickly took the entire Apple Store down in the U.S. and Canada and perhaps elsewhere. That's an expensive way to steal your own thunder - surely if they wanted to leak this information the could have found a cheaper way to do it. And this leak certainly diminishes the imact of the Monday keynote broadcast. I bet Steve Jobs popped a vein or two when he heard about it...
  • by IronTek ( 153138 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:22AM (#6252821) Homepage
    No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing.

    And whomever would write something like that about an internal Apple leak doesn't understand Steve Jobs.

    I'm sure heads rolled on this one...especially if they're to be officially announced on Monday at WWDC (which is likely).
  • Don't believe it. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by laertes ( 4218 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:32AM (#6252915) Homepage
    The following gives it away:
    - Fast Serial ATA hard drives

    - Three PCI or PCI-X expansion slots

    While I'd love to believe that Apple is soon coming out with 970 based machines, these two items in particular are the Joe Slashdot wet-dream wishlist items. Apple will go with the same drives you can get in an Xserve today, and I'd be pretty surprised if the jumped on board PCI-X. The fact is, someone not related to Apple just sat at their keyboard, and tried to make a spec which seemed believable yet got all the Joe Slashdot Apple fanboys hot-and-bothered.

    Furthermore, as I'm sure has been mentioned before, this is absolutely not how Apple's marketing engine works. They keep the upcoming hardware stricktly under wraps to discourage the wait-until-the-next-machine-comes-out mentality. They are a profitable company, and they'd like to keep it that way. The way for them to do this is to entice you to buy a machine today.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      1) The Xserve has individual ATA busses for maximum throughput, which SerialATA probably wouldn't help.

      2) There is no need for a non-server system to have removable drives. The new pro systems will not have "the same drives you can get in an Xserve today."

      3) The Xserve already has a PCI-X slot.

      4) "Someone not related to Apple['s website store]" would not have access to the location this image file was found. It was on an Akamai server. This actually showed up on the Apple Store. I saw it with my own eyes
  • At least - not yet. I just don't have a reason too.

    Specs look great. The only thing that might change my mind is a port of these 4 very, very important productivity applications:

    Half-Life 2 - used to train new employees in how to survive a natural accident.
    Doom III - used to train marines how to survive an unnatural accident.
    Deus Ex II - used to inform people on the use of nanotechnology.
    Thief III - a history lesson on how Victorian England might have evolved if magic was real and steam-driven robots worked.

    Obviously, these very important production apps would require the power that the P970 can bring. (Oh, I'm sure they'd run on my current G4 867/Geforce 4 MX, but who wants to take a chance?)
  • by schnell ( 163007 ) <me.schnell@net> on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:23AM (#6253445) Homepage

    No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing.

    No offense, Michael, but you pretty clearly don't understand marketing. There's no way this was intentional.

    Why? Let's assume you have a big event coming up, with one big piece of news everyone is waiting for (in this case, G5s) and lots of other, smaller items that you want to talk about (Panther, whatever other goodies they have hidden). Remember, that big piece of news is the lure to get everyone watching the rest of the show.

    So why on Earth would you spill the beans beforehand on your big item, so that some people would have gotten the info they wanted and will now not tune in to see the rest of it?

    It's also media suicide! If the mainstream press reports today "Apple is announcing G5s," then they won't have the same level of "big news" to report on Monday, and reports of all the other stuff Apple desperately wants people to know about (like the goodies of Panther and their carefully-worded spin on the advantages of 64-bit-ness) won't get the same headline "punch" because the big cat's out of the bag. And Apple is a past master at manipulating the press, so they would never consciously make that kind of mistake.

    Lastly, if they were going to deliberately leak it, why would they leak only specs (which geeks care about) and not something like a spec-free marketing piece written about the G5 which would get people quoting their words on its goodness, but still keep prospective buyers tuned in for the details? Again, not a smart move.

    In sum, this was pretty clearly an actual goof by a (newly unemployed) Apple web tech. I trust the Slashdot staff to know their s**t about a variety of things ... but oh dear God is marketing NOT one of them.

    • by Arcturax ( 454188 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @12:22PM (#6254756)
      Actually, it could work to their advantage, here is how!

      They "leak" these specs out and it generates a huge buzz, especially when they send out cease and desists to the major rumors sites. I think Apple has actually learned how to use the rumor sites to help them generate buzz. They play these leak then cease and desist games knowing it will make people even more curious about what else was NOT leaked out, or will be more likely to watch the show just to see the new machines in action.

      This will ensure a very large number of people watch their broadcast of the show. This means developers as well, ones who may not have watched this otherwise (i.e. PC software developers) but are now intrigued by this new machine buzz. It means they will see, along with the new machines being confirmed, Apple's demo of OS X 10.3, which is what Apple really wants them to see. After all, OS X is Apple's future as much as new hardware is and if they can get these guys to sit through a presentation on OS X and how easy it is to develop while watiting to see what new iron Apple has out, they might get the hint of "Wow, OS X is really cool! Along with this new hardware these guys will be going places! I think I'll get one of these and see how easy it will be to port my software over to this amazing platform".

      It will also draw PC user eyeballs as well, and they will also see how cool OS X is compared to Windows. So in a way, this could well be a ploy to glue more eyeballs on the screen and fill people with marketing about OS X along with the new machines they are now so curious about.
    • by ChadN ( 21033 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @01:39PM (#6255487)
      That's it. This article finally put me over the top with being fed up with michael. He is a prick of the world. I'm so glad he deigns to give us mere mortals lessons on marketing, since he clearly has what it takes to "understand" it.

      Hey, michael, maybe "understanding marketing" is just the latest sign that you are in fact evil, and should kill yourself. Meanwhile, I'll form my own opinions, since I think I'm intelligent enough to do so. But, when I need a marketing lesson, I'll drop you a line for your insight.

      Rant over, troll-mod away. But, all the other posters who've commented on michael's jack-assery over the years, have a point. michael himself finally convinced me they do.
  • excellent, Smithers (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:30AM (#6253511)
    Okay, so the only real questions left are:

    1) What do they look like?

    and the performance-relevant one:

    2) Is it dual-channel DDR, or did Apple pull an Apple and make it single-channel? This is critical, as they do NOT want these things bandwidth-starved like Macs have traditionally been.

    The hope meter is waaaaay up today, though.
  • Space Nuts (Score:5, Funny)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <.teamhasnoi. .at.> on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:34AM (#6253553) Journal
    I can just see Jobs screaming at some poor web tech, 'I said "Lunch", not "Launch"!!'

    One more example of how real life follows early 80s Satuday morning Sid and Marty Kroft shows.

  • by esome ( 166227 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:39AM (#6253619) Journal
    Could someone please explain why this could not have been the work of a hacker? I have heard the argument that Apple's website is "too complicated" and "too secure" but I haven't seen any details to back that up. My question may be a bit naive but how hard could it really be for someone to change a few lines of text?
  • by Rouxfus ( 567556 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @11:17AM (#6254091)
    Everyone seems to be focused on the specs, but for me the most important piece of text in the misbegotten graphic from the Apple Store kimono opening was the headline that preceded them:

    "The world's fastest personal computer." Now, as David Letterman likes to say, that's something.

    Apple hasn't been able to claim anything like that, with anything like a straight face, in a long, long time. The implication is that there will be a convincing display of this CPU prowess, and not just Jon Rubenstein talking about the length of his pipe, either. And I would bet it will involve something other than just Photoshop.

    The speed perception issue has been holding Apple and OS X back - if the developers and then the tech are convinced this hobble has been removed from the camel's back legs, it will be a huge deal.

    Love - the delusion that one woman differs from another. [H.L. Mencken]
  • by Srsen ( 413456 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @11:51AM (#6254438)
    Just to get the jump on the Mac-bashers, here's the new list of allowed Mac complaints:

    1. Stupid slow screens are a bottleneck. They don't refresh fast enough to keep up with the system. What were those morons at Apple thinking?

    2. STILL no liquid helium cooling system?? Come on Apple, this isn't 1997!

    3. Big deal. By 2008 you'll be able to get a comparable Dell box for half the price.

    4. No floppy, no sale.

    5. Still doesn't support my Chinese Xiondiangdong BKPDX-145 scanner.

    6. Apple is dying.

    7. I actually liked the Spinning Beach Ball of Death. I miss it.

    8. It's so fast that I now have time to do other things. Then I discovered I don't have anything else to do.

To be is to program.