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Hardware

Mini-ITX PC in an Atari 800 179

Posted by CowboyNeal from the retro-look-with-brand-new-feel dept.
tgeller writes "As case mods go, this one's not the weirdest, But it has its own retro charm. Musician and geek Andy Hutson slipped a Mini-ITX motherboard into an Atari 800 case... and used an old cartridge as the mouse! Too bad the original keyboard's not functional." This almost makes me want to tear apart my old Apple //c and see what I can make. Almost.
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Mini-ITX PC in an Atari 800 More

Mini-ITX PC in an Atari 800

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  • The Mouse (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 20, 2003 @04:51AM (#6251885)
    Man, as if using an Atari 800 to house your ATX wasn't bad enough.. but to use a game cartridge, Star Raiders nonetheless, and transform it into a MOUSE? MY GOD MAN, I'm dripping in geek just reading this page!
    • But Star Raiders though, man! How can any self respecting geek butcher a Star Raiders cartridge!

      I don't care how cool the mod is, there's one less original copy of Star Raiders in the world.
      • *sob* Star Raiders was the first game I bought when I got my Atari 400 (with the way-cool keypad instead of a keyboard) back in late 1979, I think (or was it 80?).

        Aren't there Atari emulators out there for the PC? I don't have time to google right now, so any karma whores want to check this out?
    • I'm dripping in geek just reading this page!

      If you're dripping in anything while reading Slashdot, it's either geek, foodstuffs, or that other thing.

  • Anti Theft! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Leroy_Brown242 ( 683141 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @04:53AM (#6251890) Homepage Journal
    At least nobody will steal your computer! Well, at least not after they find out you ruined an Atari and put all the modern crap inside! ]:3P

    • Re:Anti Theft! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This isn't funny, it's insightful. I had a break-in a few weeks ago, my housemates had jewellry stolen, money, laptops, the whole bit. My Mini-ITX computer is currently housed in a cardboard CD/RW box while i try to find a cool case for it, and even though the box was ripped apart, it wasn't stolen. There's a lot to be said for "stealthing" the belongings you own that are worth something. Laptops are highly prized amongst criminals - it's $500 no questions asked. Mini-ITX boards in a cardboard box are

  • Oh come on... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @04:55AM (#6251899) Homepage

    For old machine cool case mods, surely you'd have to go the OTHER way.

    I mean get an old PDP-11, gut it and put boards and extensions everywhere, imagine rebuilding the PSU [usyd.edu.au] as a set of USB access points, or as a beowulf cluster of Mini-ITX systems :-)

    Or put an old IBM Mainframe in the basement, wire up the lights and away you go.

    • Re:Oh come on... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If you even so much as touched a functioning PDP-11 with the intentions of harming it, I'm afraid I would have to come to your house and put the smack down on you.

      People these days have no appreciation for old systems. Its like taking an antique grandfather clock and putting a digital display in it!

    • Re:Oh come on... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Surak ( 18578 ) *
      Did you happen to notice the Commodore PET ITX computer [mini-itx.com] on the Mini-ITX site, where the original poster undoubtedly got this article? That's *almost* as retro as a PDP-11.
      • As someone who has worked on the inside of many a Commodore Pet, you don't need a mini-ITX board in one of these. The mainboard on a Pet is larger than any XT/AT board I've ever seen, and there's plenty of room to spare for drives, etc.

        It's a pretty damn easy mod, too - the Pet had an easy-open case, much like the hood of a car. Pop a couple of screws, and the entire top just folds back (complete with bar to hold it up while you work inside!).

        • Yeah...I had my hands on one not too long ago and decided to donate it to a local old technology museum. Pretty simple, and you could probably easily put a AT or ATX form-factor motherboard into one.

          The pictures show that the mini-itx board takes up alost no space at all inside the thing.
    • It's been done.. well, don't know about the PDP-11,
      but I did know a guy who built his Atari 1024 STE into a PC box.

  • It's running Windows... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Koushiro ( 612241 ) <koushball.gmail@com> on Friday June 20, 2003 @04:56AM (#6251901) Homepage
    ...so the graphics may be prettier, but it'll still run at the same speed.

  • Summary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BJH ( 11355 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @04:57AM (#6251905)
    Man puts ITX MB in old plastic box.

    Sorry, but I would have been more impressed if he'd restored the Atari 800 to working condition.
    • I have a working 800. What can I do with it? (Seriously. My parents want to throw it out, since it's in their house right now.)

      --RJ
      • put a mini itx in it :)
      • Send me an e-mail username(mine) @yahoo.com I'd buy it... Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

      • Re:Summary (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Dogtanian ( 588974 )
        I have a working 800. What can I do with it?

        Play games on it? Write some cool programs? If you don't want it, give it away to someone who does.

        (Seriously. My parents want to throw it out, since it's in their house right now.)

        I know the feeling. Tell them it's a classic and worth a lot of money. Half a lie can't hurt ;-)

        Don't chuck it though... sheesh!
      • Sell it on EBay. I'm sure there's someone out there who wants it.
    • I have an old 800XL that has been modded to 128mb of ram back in the day. The extra memory is soldered on and there is a toggle switch on the side. It still works as far as I know. I forget who made the kit. The 6502 can only directly address 64mb, however. I believe I used the other 63mb as a ram disk mainly. I think that all it needs is some working joysticks. I would like to play Star Raiders again.
      • That's 64K and 128K. Sorry it's been a long week and a long time ago.
    • My 800 XL still works nicely thank you. And I can load stuff on it by getting my PC to emulate an Atari 8-bit PC disk drive..!

  • Much cooler running the real thing... (Score:5, Informative)

    by GridPoint ( 588140 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:02AM (#6251921)
    Ok, so putting a modern PC in an old computercase is cool and all, but running modern style software on the actual old computer is much cooler! Check out the Contiki operating system [dunkels.com] for such old computers (including the Atari 800): it is a multi-tasking graphical operating system with full Internet access (web browser, telnet client, web server!) that runs on a a bunch of different old computers [dunkels.com]. They even have a web server [c64.org] running on a real Commodore 64.

  • I can't wait for... (Score:5, Funny)

    by borgdows ( 599861 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:05AM (#6251929)
    http://mini-itx.cx ... guess where the mini-itx pc will be! ;o)

  • Incompatible keyboard? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CurlyG ( 8268 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:06AM (#6251937)
    'Scuse my ignorance, but I'm curious as to just how incompatible the original keyboard was...

    Would any of the people that know about hardware care to enlighten me on how hard a keyboard translater would be to build - something that would read the output of the Atari keyboard and spit out equivilent input that the Mini ITX's keyboard controller would understand?

    There's a lot of really cool looking old gear out there (well, specifically, under the desk here) with built in keyboards that would make pretty nifty little machines for those of us who want to relive the days of sitting crosslegged on the loungeroom floor 3 inches from the TV screen tapping stuff into a machine like that, but with all mod cons...
    • I am not sure about the Atari keyboard, but I had a Z80 Spectrum +2. The keyboard was not a serial port sending characters sequentially, it was implemented using parallel inputs. I guess you would need a microcontroller to convert the Atari keyboard to a PS2 keyboard.
      • You'd just have to reverse engineer the wiring out of an existing PS2 keyboard. Pull out the (section of?) the PS2 keyboard that has the microcontroller (is it an 8041 in an AT, it's an 8048 in an XT) and graft it on the keyswitches on the Atari's keyboard.

        PS2 keyboard schematics do exist, i.e. in the techref manual of an IBM brand machine you could find the schematics. Then it's just a matter of translating switch contacts to switch contacts with a lot of #30 wire wrap and fitting it all in the old case

    • Re:Incompatible keyboard? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Surak ( 18578 ) * <.surak. .at. .mailblocks.com.> on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:21AM (#6251986) Homepage Journal
      The Atari itself, if it were working, would undoubtedly have some sort of circuitry that would take the keyboard inputs and stuff them into a buffer of some sort. One would have to know the format of this buffer (ASCII characters maybe?) and then convert them into PS/2 scancodes and stuff those into the ITX's keyboard controller chip. This would undoubtedly require some kind of specialized chip. I'm not a hardware hacker, so I wouldn't be able to do it, but I know people who *would* and I at least understand the theory, or I think I do anyway. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm completely talking out my ass.)

      • Re:Incompatible keyboard? (Score:2, Informative)

        by oshy ( 674602 )
        Should be a relativly easy mod to make. Both keyboards work on the princaple of pressing a button to short out two contacts. Simply cut the tracks on the Atari keyboard circuit board. Open up a PC keyboard. Pull the chip and mount into a socket (well, mount after soldering). Trace each key to see what pins it shorts together and wire the appropriate key on the atari back to the new socket. If you plan it out before wiring, you can cut down on the amount of wire used (and therefore space used)

      • POKEY (Score:5, Informative)

        by wowbagger ( 69688 ) * on Friday June 20, 2003 @07:03AM (#6252270) Homepage Journal
        The Atari I/O chip (POKEY, for POrts and KEYboard), was fed a row/column matrix from the keyboard, and then read directly by the CPU.

        In order to make the keyboard compatible with a PC, you would need a microcontroller that scanned the row/column matrix and then generated the serial data stream that a PC's 8042 keyboard controller wanted to see.

        Not really a very difficult task for a hardware guy - a PIC would probably do quite nicely.

        I wonder if the guy was able to use the interior potmetal shield of the Atari - the 800 was designed back when "Class B computing device" MEANT something - Atari took no chance that the computer would fail to pass FCC regulations. The 800 was the quietest (in the RF sense of the word) computer I'd ever seen - ANYTHING that could generate RF was on the inside of a eight-of-an-inch thick metal box.

        But using a Star Raiders cart as a mouse?!?!

        BLASPHEMER! SINNER! YOU SHALL BURN IN HELLFIRE ETERNAL!
      • The Atari used a character set called ATASCII, though I'm sure the keyboard wouldn't have any knowledge of this. This page [atariarchives.org] shows the ATASCII and internal values. I'm sure some mapping scheme could be made to work with the original keyboard...maybe the Atari key can be mapped as ALT. Interesting...
      • Ummm...Seems to mne that it would be easier to scour the University surplus stores, ebay, thrift shops, etc until you find an actual ps/2 compatable keyboard (laptop maybe?) that would fit the dimensions...

        But hey, that's just me taking the easy way out and NOT getting that Electrical engineering degree...
        • As the article points out, the *look* was more important to the guy than the functionality. If you look at the small keyboard on top of the Atari 800 in the picture on the Mini-ITX site, I think you'll find that that keyboad would probably have fit fine. But as the guy points out, it wouldn't have looked right. Or at least not to him anyway.
    • the days of sitting crosslegged on the loungeroom floor 3 inches from the TV screen tapping stuff into a machine like that

      Wow, you mean I wasn't the only one?! :)

    • Re:Incompatible keyboard? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The way any keyboard works is that it makes a short-circuit between two points. In all PS2 keyboards, there is a microcontroller that detects these short-circuits and then sends a "packet" serially to the computer based on a truth table.

      Therefore, it would be dirt easy to take appart an old PS2 keyboard, rip off the microcontroller inside and solder the proper "wires" to it so that when a button is pressed on the Atari keyboard, the microcontroller "knows" which letter has been pressed.

      The only "hic" her

    • Actually, the guy who molested a Commodore SX-64 on the same site did just that. See http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/sx64/ for details - including how he even stealthed all the ports. The day my trusty, still functional C64 dies I might do the same... but for now, I'm more tempted about trying to squuese a MiniITX board into my PSX which died last christmas...

      • ... someone did it with a C64, so someone else had to do with an Atari 800.

        Some things never change ;-)

        (btw. the Atari hack ist of course *much* cooler than the C64 ...)

        Bye egghat.
        • ... someone did it with a C64, so someone else had to do with an Atari 800.

          Some things never change ;-)

          ...and CowboyNeal considered doing the same to an Apple IIc. Fortunately, he decided against doing that...maybe because there's still useful stuff you can do with an Apple II. :-) (Speaking of things that never change...)

    • I'm asking myself why he didn't take the controller from a cheapo PC keyboard and convert the Atari keyboard to use the same matrix layout as the membrane/switchgear the controller was designed to work with...

      A friend used this approach to build a MAME cab by connecting a joystick and buttons where the cursor and ALT/SHIFT/CTRL/5/6/1/2 keys should be.

      --

    • In the guy's defense, even though I've slammed him elsewhere in the thread for butchering a classic machine, there's a key missing from the keyboard, so getting the keyboard converted wasn't much of an option.

      The biggest problem using the keyboard with a PC is that it's just Not The Same as a 101-key PC layout. There are keys on the Atari that aren't on a PC keyboard, and there are plenty of keys on a PC keyboard that would be tricky to represent on the Atari keyboard... Not that it would be impossible t

  • Great Job. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Martigan80 ( 305400 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:06AM (#6251938) Journal
    This is what I love to see. The hardware hackers. Sure it goes above the old Amiga hacks, but is great to see the creative mind put to use. Now all we nee is for someone to do a C=128D and use a bootable C=128 emulator like the Knoppix-thing. ;-)
    • as I've said before, case-modding is to hardware hacking what putting a whale fin on a Civic is to hot-rodding...

  • Lazy (Score:3, Informative)

    by fearlessrogue ( 632840 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:08AM (#6251945)
    The guy did not even bother to break out a multi meter and figure out how the oldkb worked.... btw all the good stuff is at www.mini-itx.org

  • Full points for style (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SamBC ( 600988 ) <s.barnett-cormack@lancaster.ac.uk> on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:09AM (#6251949)
    Even if you don't think the Atari 800 is a very pretty box, I think this conversion deserves full points for originality and style.

    My only question is usability.

  • Other mod ideas... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ites ( 600337 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:14AM (#6251965) Journal
    Simply sticking a modern computer into an Atari 800 case is a little sad. Surely there are more fun mods to do... for example:

    - mod a C64 disk drive to hold a full PC, with HDD, and talking IEE844 correctly to the C64.
    - mod a C64 printer to become a network interface, allowing the vital print-to-slashdot function
    - mod a game cartidge to hold a PC running Linux, then allow the original system to act as a console for the Linux box

    Just modding hardware is skillfull, but modding software is true art.
  • Wow, seeing that old atari case sure takes me back to before I was born. Actually my first was the Atari 7800.

  • Not only Atari 800 (Score:5, Informative)

    by iwaku ( 677925 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:17AM (#6251979) Journal
    Mini-ITX site has a lot of links to similar projects:
    http://www.mini-itx.com [mini-itx.com]

  • I had (Score:3, Funny)

    by Konster ( 252488 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:22AM (#6251992)
    I had one of these.

    Load SCRAM into the cassette drive, and go ride the BMX bike (with mag rims!) around for 45 minutes while it loaded, return and scram the core ;).

    Seriously though, has anyone considered putting a PC into *gasp* a PC chassis?

  • Why want? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by morganjharvey ( 638479 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:28AM (#6252009)
    This almost makes me want to tear apart my old Apple //c and see what I can make. Almost.

    Why not just keep your old Apple IIc and spend the five bucks or whatever buying one on ebay? There are tons of "classic" computers on ebay that you can get for rediculously low prices (well, considering...) A while ago I almost got a lot of five sparc ipx's for $20. The winning bid was something like $25. Stuff like that is up there all the time.

    Of course, I have some sort of weird ethical qualms with gutting old machines. Someone else usually has to throw them out. Why not try this mod on a nice toaster or even a cuisinart (double props if the thing still works without ruining the mobo)

    just my two cents (adjusted for inflation)
  • The finished product. I installed it with Windows 98SE, APE (Atari Peripheral Emulator), and WinDVD. Also, for fun, I installed "drempels" for a psychedelic desktop.
    Forget dremples, Geiss 2 [nullsoft.com] just came out. Thanks for the heads up.

    "Please remember to look away every 15 minutes."

  • Jackypc.com (Score:3, Informative)

    by dago ( 25724 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:56AM (#6252073)
    that's what (one of) the guy behind jackypc.com [jackypc.com] did.

    This website is the reference french-speaking site for moding PC.

    Here you can see it [jackypc.com] (it is a 600)
    • Wow.

      The Atari-inspired PC case, external DVD drive and LCD box and all, is really classy. Like something from an alternate universe...

      You should all check it out. Click "Page Suivante" a few times.
  • Gosh I did love my first (as in computer) C64 and a romance with an atari followed soon after. In fact I think I had both of them at the same times... But with the article, lost my interest after "cool to retrofit an Atari 800 to be a full-fledged Windows PC". Jeez-Maan! How can you treat a loved one with such disrespect!
  • Step right up! Find the link to the right site in the story body and win a prize!

    On an on-topic note, as a person who's a bit of a NES-aholic I'd I've always wanted to toss a modern computer into an old NES casing. It'd look a thousand times cooler than those crappy windows case modders put in their computers (literal windows, although I suppose the Redmond option would be as as crappy). Plus it'd make those long nights in front of NASM trying to get something to work in FCEU a bit more tolerable.

    I'd also

  • Sad (Score:4, Insightful)

    by martingunnarsson ( 590268 ) <martin&snarl-up,com> on Friday June 20, 2003 @06:28AM (#6252159) Homepage
    I think it's sad to see old hardware ripped apart like this. It's just as sad as people ripping nice old cars apart to make butt-ugly hot rods...

    • Re:Sad (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Dim_Slashdot ( 615563 )
      Come on, honestly, how many of these old computers are still in use?

      The mod community can take the old and forgotten and breathe new life into it. Do you really think we would have the nostalgic pleasure of remembering old systems like the Atari 800 without mods like this?

      They don't make the front page of /. for their new killer apps anymore :)
    • This one was already non-bootable and broken. I can't see a problem here. As for the cars, hot rods are nice, but turning them into lowriders just seems wrong.

  • Don't use an Apple IIc (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RyanP ( 8861 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @07:29AM (#6252412) Homepage
    I've been fooling around with a mini-itx board for a while, and tried to fit it into an Apple IIc. It will fit, if you forego a cd/dvd drive, full size hard drive, and use a laptop-style power supply with an external AC/DC adaptor.

    My current plans are to put it into a wood box I purchased at a local artsy fartsy store, which will have plenty of room for a slot loading DVD drive, but will still need a laptop hard drive and the smaller power supply. DivX player, here I come!

    -Ryan

  • use cherrycorp keyboard! (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ditch the non-functional keyboard and put a cherry g84-4100 in there!. it's even available in black. check their keyboard catalogue here : http://www.cherrycorp.com/products/US/keyboards/pd f_file/gen_purpose.pdf (pdf, scroll 2/3 down).
  • I want to find an old TI-99/4A Peripheral Expansion Box. It's not unlike the standard PC case, but it's built like an Abrams battle tank. Even the cards were in small metal cases.

    I think with some creative use with the Dremel, I could re-use the power switch, put in the hard drive/power LEDs where the card ones were, and improvise on the cards in back.

    It would truly be a 1980s-lookin' PC>
    • Yeah, I had one of those. That was bar none the coolest expansion box I've ever seen. Too bad it all got sold at a garage sale while I was away at college. I've never seen another one since then. :(

      IIRC it had lots of metal plating and fake wood grain on the outside. Sweet. And the cable used to hook it to the console was like a big black python. You could have beat someone to death with it, I'm sure.

      The top came off like the hood of a car, and the cards were the size of a book.

      I had almost all of

  • Anyone can put a PC into an atari .... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mustangdavis ( 583344 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @09:42AM (#6253650) Homepage Journal
    .... that is, if they know how to use Photoshop or GIMP ..... This is a crime! You ruined something that belongs in a museum!!!!

  • macpacks are way to go (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anarchos ( 122228 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:10AM (#6253996) Homepage
    Well, if I had a IIc, I'd make a macpack [utacm.org] and ditch my regular ol' backpack.

  • NOOOOOOOOOO! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by foog ( 6321 ) <phygelus@yahoo.com> on Friday June 20, 2003 @10:41AM (#6254337)
    as someone who has owned every production 8-bit Atari sold in the US (800,400,1200XL,800XL,600XL, 130XE, 65XE, XEGS... other models that are out there that I haven't owned include the 1400XL, 1450XL, 800XE...) this is just WRONG. WRONG, I tell you.

    The 800 is one of the very best of the Atari 8-bit line. Funky seventies industrial design, lovely keyboard, great video and audio quality out of the box (Atari boogered the video and audio amplifiers on the XL and XE models)...

    They're built like tanks, too. Remember, the MSRP for them in 1979 was something like $2000. In 1979 dollars. 1/4" and 1/8" aluminum shielding in there to pass the old FCC regs from before Apple paid off the FCC to get the Apple II series passed... We used to joke that the 800 could probably survive the EMP from the inevitable nuclear war that was going to happen in the eighties...

    About the only "case mod" I could understand on an 800 is gluing the Star Raiders cartridge into the slot, and even then, I'd use a 400 for that...

    • I loved my 800 ... :) (Score:2, Informative)

      by JoeGee ( 85189 )
      As for the comment "it's a shame they couldn't get the original keyboard to work", ya know, that's the only thing I didn't like about my 800. The keys didn't follow a standard layout, and I wasn't very fond of their feel.

      The long nights I spent poking display list interrupts into the 1536 memory block, and making the 8k Atari basic do things it wasn't meant to do. Good old 6502 assembly language. My first tape drive. My first floppy drive. A geek's first love. :)

      Any chance you still have the Micr
      • I might actually have the MS BASIC cartridge, which didn't come out until the XL/XE era, in storage. I certainly have a few Atari BASIC (rev A I'm pretty sure) carts.

        Originally, MS BASIC was sold on floppy disk. It used the most godawful copy-protection scheme I ever saw on the Ataris---it must have used the whole 88K of the floppy to load 12-16k of program in a bizarre overlaying scheme designed to obfuscate the program on the disk. Took FOREVER to boot up, which pretty much made it unusable.

        Atari fre
      • oh yeah, and back in the mid-nineties or so the cool thing to do was to put an 800XL mainboard, a CSS Black Box, a SCSI hard disk, and an PS/2 keyboard interface into a PC case... I never did, but on my bad days I still kind of want to...

    • Re:NOOOOOOOOOO! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by petsounds ( 593538 )
      The Atari 800 was the first computer I owned. I had all the expansion slots filled with memory carts, bringing up the RAM to 64k I believe. It was definitely built like a tank, and easy to program. I disagree with the "too bad he didn't get the keyboard to work" because the keyboard was crap and would hurt your fingers after a couple hours of use. The keys felt heavy and had too much tension, which required a significant amount of pressure compared to a PC keyboard.

      Unfortunately, I wasn't lucky enough to o
      • Atari used a couple different keyboard manufacturers IIRC, so some machines are nicer than others within the same model line.

        But honestly, if you don't like the 800 keyboard, you probably use a $15 PC keyboard today and would hate a real Model M or Northgate Omnikey...

        That said, I've finally become sufficiently used to my laptop's keyboard that a Model M feels weird. :(

  • *Yawn* (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hellfire ( 86129 ) <deviladv@gmTOKYOail.com minus city> on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:00PM (#6258109) Homepage
    Taking an old PC case and putting new hardware into it? Boring... been done before... and this one isn't even fully functional. It's little more than an attempt at something visually cool, and even then it has no visual appeal whatsoever.

    Now the Telefunken 2003 [mini-itx.com]... a 45 year old radio upgraded to Internet Radio... that's a nice hack with unique artistic appeal!!

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