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Major Tablet PC Running Into Problems? 347

An anonymous reader writes "As Digitimes says : Global sales of Tablet PCs have not been as strong as expected, and major Tablet PC vendors like Acer and Hewlett-Packard (HP) have even experienced declining sales of the products, sources said. Acer, which claims it sold about 35,000 Tablet PCs worldwide in the fourth quarter of 2002, saw sales of the product plunge by over 50% in the first quarter of this year. " I actually saw/held my first Tablet PC last week - it was one of Fujitsu series machines, and I was pretty impressed by it. It'd make a good business/school machine, but I don't think you'd want it for gaming and the like.
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Major Tablet PC Running Into Problems?

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  • Gaming? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:08AM (#6094628) Journal
    It'd make a good business/school machine, but I don't think you'd want it for gaming and the like.

    In other news, I think a dishwasher is a good idea, but won't be using one to wash my clothes any time soon.

    Tablet PCs are simply not designed for gaming, so saying you would not use one for gaming is a bit superfluous.

    • Re:Gaming? (Score:5, Funny)

      by ratbag ( 65209 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:15AM (#6094674)
      In other news, I think a dishwasher is a good idea, but won't be using one to wash my clothes any time soon.


      No, but you can cook a salmon rather well in a dishwasher.

      Rob.
    • Re:Gaming? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by machine of god ( 569301 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:24AM (#6094726)
      I think that pointing out that a factor against a tablet pc might be that it is a specialized device with a limited market, as opposed to a computer. Pretty much everyone who can afford it gets a computer. Not everyone gets (or wants) a tablet pc.
      • So what? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Everyone knows that consumer electronics sales are cyclic. The 4th quarter is usually the hottest (Christmas, etc.), while the 1st quarter is usually the slowest (pay off the credit cards). Even global cell phone sales fell in the first quarter ( link [e-insite.net])! Granted, they didn't go down as much, but nobody's talking about the demise of the cell phone. (Also, the number cited on the link is for the entire industry. Individual companies may be significantly higher or lower.) Will the tablet PC die? It depend
    • Re:Gaming? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MikeFM ( 12491 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:35AM (#6094776) Homepage Journal
      The problem is that most people aren't really sure what to use tablets for. They are great for business use where your staff needs to be able to work with information as they walk and a PDA is to cramped or lowpowered. They are okay for lugging around the house for Net use or even for watching ripped movies. I like to plug a Happy Hacker keyboard in and use one as a laptop to code on (I find it more convient being able to remove the keyboard when not needed).

      They could even be good for low power games (think GameBoy with a much bigger screen) if there were a joypad style mouse button and the buttons were positioned properly.

      The other problem is that these things tend to cost as much as a laptop. If they could get them into the upper range of PDA prices while retaining their PC-like features then they'd kick ass. The ProGears were a great hacking bargain once they went out of business and were available for $400 each. :)
      • Re:Gaming? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Hast ( 24833 )
        Of those I've seen (online, never seen one IRL) have had a keyboard as well. Some has a detachable keyboard and some are like a laptop but with a rotateable screen.

        That's the kind I'd get, and if I were hunting for a laptop I'd probably get one which is "tabletable".

        If that's what you get then it's worth the price. Those that are a "big PalmPC" are however generally way too expensive for the bang. As you say, you don't want to get a big PalmPC for the price of a laptop.
        • Really, I'd like it if they would sell a portable PC without screen, keyboard, mouse, or external drives. Sure you can build one yourself but it'd be able to buy one ready made. Without any of those features they could easily fit the whole thing into something not much bigger than a PDA and could keep the price down to less than $400. Then you could just plug into whatever monitor was handy or use something like iGlasses.
      • by ahfoo ( 223186 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @09:00AM (#6095376) Journal
        The ones I've seen typically cost more than notebooks. What surprises me is that they had such good sales last year.
        If you're a billionaire who doesn't need to care about dropping a few grand of electronics on the floor every so often, this is a killer toy. No surprise who the poster boy was. But likewise it's no surpise they're not taking the market by storm.
  • bang for the buck (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cheese_wallet ( 88279 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:08AM (#6094629) Journal
    Tablet PCs are sort of like a large pda... At least that's where I see their usefulness. Ipaqs are cool, but the screen is too small to be useful, IMO.

    A tablet PC, especially the kind that can unfold to into a laptop, is what I've been wanting for a very long time.

    But the price is just crazy, $2600? I'd consider paying $1000. $2600 Could by a pretty slick laptop that cleans the floor with a typical tablet pc.
    • A tablet PC, especially the kind that can unfold to into a laptop, is what I've been wanting for a very long time

      I agree there, and considering that I have not seen a tablet PC in a store, yet, I'm not surprised to see that sales haven't been very good (htf am I supposed to buy one if I can't mess with them in the store?).

      As for your complaints about price, I understand to a degree, but realistically a $1000 laptop would be a pretty useless machine by most standards.
      • but realistically a $1000 laptop would be a pretty useless machine by most standards

        $799 for a 2 Ghz celeron w/ CD-RW, 128 megs RAM, 20 gig HDD, and XP home From Dell [dell.com]

        They are cheaper and faster than ever now, and that is far from useless!! :)
    • by angle_slam ( 623817 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:53AM (#6094906)
      $2600 Could by a pretty slick laptop that cleans the floor with a typical tablet pc.

      $2600 buys a decent $1000-1500 laptop with enough left over to buy a 3GHz desktop gaming machine.

    • But not until one of these comes out that runs OS X. But I won't be holding my breath for it, especially after reading the Steve Jobs link somebody posted below.
    • by yog ( 19073 )
      How is a tablet PC different from a laptop, aside from touch sensitive screen and missing keyboard? They added a really great, useful feature and took one away. I say, add touch sensitivity to an existing laptop design and you have a winner. Make the lid swivel so you can close it with the display on the outside, add some handwriting recognition software and you have effectively a "tablet PC".

      I would never buy a tablet PC simply because I consider the keyboard an efficient, indispensable way to get data
      • There are a couple different types of Tablet PCs. I forgot the exact names, but there is the swivel type, much like you describe. I think toshiba makes one of these, I've seen it at compusa. It looks like it would break very easily (the swivel part).

        The other type is called a Slate type tablet PC. no keyboard.

        Personally, I'd like the swivel type, but it looks very breakable... might be to costly to make a robust version. I've horsed around with the demo TPCs, and for the most part, the pen input suc
      • Re:bang for the buck (Score:5, Informative)

        by krb ( 15012 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @10:04AM (#6095931) Homepage
        these do exist. Acer makes one called the C110 and there's an HP/COMPAQ model named the TC1000.

        The Acer is a bit pricer but uses a more powerful *and* more energy efficient Pentium M whereas the compaq uses a ULV Pentium III. They're called convertables and appear to be fairly resilient from the reviews i've read.

        The biggest beef with tablet pc's i've seen are that their screens (with the exception of one very expensive toshiba slate) are not too viewable outside. i'd buy one of those acers right now if it had any kind of decent outdoor performance. i may anyway -- i haven't decided how much direct sunlight it's likely to get.

        Incidentally, the reason it seems like a gimmick to you is that you only deal in text. For text, a keyboard is likely to be far quicker than a tablet. In my case, i'm drawn to tablets (no pun intended, i swear) because i would like to be able to make sketches and draw out diagrams naturally. I also hate to have to carry sheafs of paper that deal with the text notes i've got on my laptop... this is convergence of the best kind in my situation. There are a lot of things that are simpler and clearer to work on in a free form way and don't lend themselves to expression in pure text. and don't mention "drawing" with the trackpad... that's apples to elephants.
    • by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @09:50AM (#6095819) Homepage
      No, the point is that Tablet pc' have been and always be a Vertical market item.

      When tablet Pc's came out in 1988 and when they were re-introduced as the "new thing" the last time in 1995 by microsoft at Comdex with Windows 95 for pen computing... thay also failed miserably in the broad market.

      They are not for the general user. the general user hates them after the initial "geee.... ohhhh" period wears off. they are perfect for Insurance adjusters, doctors, supplier's and inventory management. for anything else they are 100% worthless except for the part that they are still a computer.

      Microsoft was completely idiotic for trying to push them, HP was blindly stupid for even trying to get into Fujitsu's and Panasonic's world by selling a crap version of a real Tablet PC. (A real Tablet pc can take lots of abuse as they are know to be put in the abuse realm because of their job.)

      Tablet Pc's have their use, I use one with my SL-5500 to manage my IT sphere of 3 offices and it's WAN better than anyone else in the huge company I am a part of...(can you say 10,000+ offices) because I can adapt this vertical technology to my uses and adjust my work patters to fit with the tablet PC. asking a home user, or sales person to alter how they work is asking a orange to be an apple.... it ain't gonna happen.

      so this news of it's dismal failure is no suprise. Everything that Microsoft has tried to push that is radically different is a massive failure... The auto-pc being one of their largest failures next to BOB...

      I am just more suprised that we keep seeing them trot out last decades failures over and over and over again.....
  • by adzoox ( 615327 ) * on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:08AM (#6094635) Journal
    At The D: All Things Digital Conference [blogspot.com] Steve Jobs explained why Tablet PCs aren't necessarily in Apple's future and that he sees them as a failure.

    While I do believe he is correct, I think he may be off base with the PDA. This is one of the only devices that I would like to see be more "all in one". I'd personally like a Sony Ericsson p800 style PDA phone [sonyericsson.com] that had the screen from a Clie NZ90 [sonystyle.com], GPS [garmin.com], iPod sized hard drive [toshiba.com], megapixel camera, the VERY cool remote control center from Sony, 802.11g and Bluetooth + an Mp3 player and DIVX/MPEG4 decoder [rca.com]. While something like this would be in the high end (probably where the NZ90 is = $800 + $100 802.11 card) I still think it'd fly off the shelf, and possibly be subsidized by cell phone companies, at least in part with service agreements.

    I still hope Apple is considering such a device or at least with most of the features listed here with a compact flash & SDIO slot.

    I know there's a little link overload, just illustrating how easily this could be done right now!

    All of this could be squeezed into a current form factor Sony Clie.

    • Tack on a CDR, and you've just made yourself a laptop with a tiny screen.

      Although, Steve Jobs is justifiably wary about PDAs with the failure of the Newton [techtv.com], which I still think is an awesome device.
      • The Newton (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Ah, but The Newton wasn't Steve Jobs idea, it was Sculley's. (Another minute reason Steve is wary about PDAs=pride). Also, the Newton as described in the article you linked, didn't have Steve's vision or Ive's design.

        And seriously, about the CDR, WHY NOT put a firewire port on it? WHY NOT make it run full Mac OSX? (Built in disc burning)

        Small screen or not, very useful!
        • by Anonymous Coward
          And seriously, about the CDR, WHY NOT put a firewire port on it? WHY NOT make it run full Mac OSX? (Built in disc burning)

          Congrats! You've just invented the most expensive PowerBook ever! You want a tiny form factor, that runs a desktop operating system, has a built in camera and cellphone? Anything else? Casual blowjobs on demand maybe? A cure for cancer?

      • "Failure of the Newton" executive summary:
        Marketdroid Evertum Diem
    • by RMH101 ( 636144 )
      already has a camera (ok, only 640x480!), bluetooth, mp3 player, mpg4 video player all built in - only problem is those proprietary memory stick duo cards rather than smartmedia or similar...
      • by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:26AM (#6094741) Homepage
        Uggh. This is why I hate the state of the mobile device industry right there. There are four major kinds of flash media, all incompatible with each other. Rather than come up with innovative devices that all use the same media (compactflash would have been a good choice since it was the first, and arguably the most open), the companies decided to all come up with their own formats and compete in this space.

        Imagine if all the major computer makers had come up with different kinds of floppy disk in the early 90's, all incompatible with each other? Sounds pretty idiotic in retrospect, right? Well, that's what's happening in the industry right now with flash media. SD, MMC, SM, CF, MS, this is not only inconvenient but it's probably confusing as heck to the non-computer literate.

        • Imagine if all the major computer makers had come up with different kinds of floppy disk in the early 90's, all incompatible with each other?

          They did that. Now there are just two formats left to support in the world: PC (DOS) and Mac. Since Apple stopped shipping floppy drives five years ago, and Mac OS can read and write DOS-formatted disks just fine, DOS won.

          And don't get me started on all the ways you can format a hard drive [win.tue.nl]...
          • by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @08:40AM (#6095245) Homepage
            I actually feel that FAT (the msdos filesystem) is a great filesystem for small removeable media.
            • It's simple, and unlikely to get seriously corrupted when media is rudely removed.
            • It's universal; every OS seems to support it.
            • It supports enough features to make it useful. Long filenames, directory trees, etc.
            • It's efficient; it doesn't waste a lot of space on very small media.

            It may have come from Microsoft, but it's an extremely stable and robust filesystem that is very well understood, and will probably be the de-facto standard for many years.

            As for Mac and PC format floppies, this is not really the issue I was getting it. Macs and PC's used different filesystems on floppies, but the media itself was exactly the same. This is not the case with the multitude of flash memory formats out there.
        • Not to step on your rant... but Toshiba, HP (through the Compaq Ipaq), Handspring (via the Treo), & Palm all use SD/MMC cards... Sony is different since they refuse to not use their memory sticks (since they use them on everything except the PS2)... I can't even really think of any other major players in PDA's anymore who aren't going to follow the trend... Those listed above are sold the only ones sold locally in my area... No memory format worries for me...
          • There are compact flash adapter memory readers for everything except a memory stick. Compact Flash to Smartmedia - Compact Flash to SD/MMC - Compact Flash to XD - Microdive is Compact Flash - and honestly, if you have a multi reader - with some you can transfer data directly from card to card.
        • "Imagine if all the major computer makers had come up with different
          kinds of floppy disk in the early 90's, all incompatible with each other?"

          Didn't they?

          Not the floppy disk, necessarily (although there's, what, 4 or 5
          sizes of the 3.5"), but in the 100Mb+ space there was a heaping pile
          'o different formats. Zip, obviously, was the big one, but there was
          quite a few other high density cartridge formats introduced during
          that period. Many tape formats, too.

          The same thing appears to be happening with writable
          • The 100MB+ formats were never really ubiquitous enough to fit into the same class as floppies. You couldn't, for instance, take a zip disk to a stranger and be confident that he will have a drive to read it in.

            This is one of the reasons floppy disks were so ubiquitous for so long; even though they only held 1.4MB, everyone had one. If flash media weren't so varied, maybe it would be ubiquitous now too.

        • The sharp Zaurus reads 3 of the 5. It doesn't read Smart Media or Memory stick.
    • "I'd personally like a Sony Ericsson p800 style PDA phone that had the screen from a Clie NZ90, GPS, iPod sized hard drive, megapixel camera, the VERY cool remote control center from Sony, 802.11g and Bluetooth + an Mp3 player and DIVX/MPEG4 decoder."

      And a pony.
    • While I admit it can be annoying to carry so many devices around, I think I am one of the few that does NOT want the cell phone and the PDA to converge. Right now it's just too big a hassle. I want to be able to hold my PDA in my hand and look at my schedule while I'm on the phone. Yes, I could use a handsfree kit on my PDA-phone, but then you have the tangle of cords, etc.

      I think the answer lies in Bluetooth. Give me a Bluetooth phone, my Palm Tungsten T, and a Bluetooth headset and I'll be happy.

    • I know there's a little link overload, just illustrating how easily this could be done right now!

      All of this could be squeezed into a current form factor Sony Clie.


      No, no it couldn't. You've just linked to half a dozen different very expensive products in that form factor. The resulting combined product would be about six times larger, cost more than your house, and have a battery life of about thirty seconds. And nobody would buy it because they'd rather spend all that money on some of whatever it is
  • It's the price (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jack William Bell ( 84469 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:09AM (#6094637) Homepage Journal
    Tablet PCs are cool and just about everyone who plays with one wants one. Then they look at the price and decide to get a laptop with more memory and a faster processor for less...
    • Re:It's the price (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tmark ( 230091 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:33AM (#6094772)
      And there are some of us who think laptops are cool but when we look at the price we go and buy desktops with more memory and a faster processor for less.

      If you can't afford to pay the premium for the very features that make tablets(laptops) cool, then you probably don't need a tablet(laptop) in the first place.
      • There's a major difference in price/performance between a stationary comp, a laptop, and a tablet. A laptop today has a price/performance that is a lot closer to desktops than ever before (especially when you specify a good quality LCD screen for your desktop), and the absolute performance (and quality/feel of things like the kayboard and screen) is good enough to use it as your only computer. I have only a laptop today and am very happy with it. A new desktop just didn't have the price advantage for me not
    • Actually, it's more like buying a book titled 'Sex' for $10,000, and fantasizing, dreaming and visualizing.... while the real thing can be had for much less.

      At $2,500, plus annual updates does MS expect that CEOs would drool over this stuff and take notes? They'd hire smart secretaries instead. Wrong market analysis, IMO.
  • Not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cperciva ( 102828 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:10AM (#6094646) Homepage
    The people who absolutely must have the latest gadgets bought them during the first few months; the rest of us haven't had any reason to buy them.

    Next year, there will probably be better operating system and application support, and at that point tablets will actually be useful; but until then the only market which exists is already saturated.
  • Gaming PC (Score:5, Interesting)

    by OmniVector ( 569062 ) <se e m y h o mepage> on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:12AM (#6094655) Homepage
    It'd make a good business/school machine, but I don't think you'd want it for gaming and the like

    But you see, that's the whole point. A tablet PC isn't effective if you can't hold it in your hands and write on it, and that means it's got to be tiny. If you're going to get a laptop, you're either going to get a small laptop that's not so fast, or a bulky laptop that is blazin'.

    It's not much fun sportin' a 7 pound tablet, I mean common we've been out of the stone ages for awhile :)
    • It seems to me that tablet PCs could be made much, much lighter. While battery weight is something of an insoluble problem, getting rid of the hard drive would be a good start. You could probably get 256 MB of flash in there for the same price as a decent size laptop HDD, and the weight would go down and battery life up. The point of the tablet is to take quick notes and annotate existing documents; it would be able to do both with, say, 192 MB for user data and 64 MB for the OS. The notes can be conver
  • What do I need a tablet PC for that I can't do with a PDA, or would require something smaller than a laptop? Aside from the 'cool' factor I don't see too much of a market right now. You can't really type on them... Maybe if you had a laptop with a detachable screen that functions as a tablet PC by itself.
    • Some of them are like this. You lift the screen off a docking station that has a keyboard.I myself can't do without a keyboard. But surely there's a market for this product if they can release foreign language versions, entering in japanese or chinese would be a lot better with a pen than a keyboard.
    • by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:39AM (#6094805) Homepage
      For many people the answer will be nothing. In my case I am using a Toshiba Portege 3500 Tablet PC for business meetings and for a couple of papers I am doing at university. It is great. I dock it to a larger monitor and USB I/O for development work and have it dual booting Red Hat 9 as a reasonable Linux laptop but I have to give credit to MS (as much as I hate them) for the journal program.
      It is the journal program and the full paper size that means it can really replace paper for note taking and the trick editing keeps helps deal with lecatures who change their mind about stuff on their white board. I can take notes from my third year engineering maths course better that I could on paper. I have a PocketPC and have used both it ,and the Palm, daily for several years. There is no way they could match a half my paper writing speed and I couldn't draw full blown equations, graphs or diagrams.
      The bottom line is the Tablet PC is the most natural interface I have used and I love every over priced cent of it. Most people won't need the features but if you do it's great.
  • Cultural (Score:3, Insightful)

    by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:14AM (#6094664) Homepage Journal
    Regardless of how technically sound tablet PCs are, the market for them isn't going to spring into existence overnight.
    The idea doesn't improve significantly enough on my good Rhino to have me making a purchase.
    Now, when I see RMS running Emacs on one of these things, then, maybe THEN, I'll plunk down some frogskins...
  • I'm not surprised (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 73939133 ( 676561 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:15AM (#6094672)
    Tablet PCs are physically too large and heavy. Much of that is driven by the requirements of running Windows XP: you need a harddisk and a powerful processor.

    The software isn't all that great either. The connected handwriting recognition system is actually not too bad in terms of raw recognition performance, but its integration and user interface is awful. Speech recognition is laughable. Your best bet is the on-screen keyboard or the PDA-like recognizer.

    I think a compact tablet with a high resolution 1024x768 screen, long battery life, but without a harddisk and with a low-power processor, would likely be more successful--provided it ran something better than Tablet PC. In fact, even PocketPC would probably be better than TabletPC.
  • How do they hold up? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SphynxSR ( 584774 )
    How do the screens hold up to human oils? Or the constant pressure of someones wrist on it? I like the idea but never used one.
    • the Toshiba one I played with wasn't touch sensitive, it used a magnetic pickup in the pen just like the drawing pens that professional artists use.

      It had a much better feel that a PDA's Pen, In fact an artist I know played on it and drew a picture on it. It was hard to tell if he penciled in on paper and scanned it or drew it on the laptop. The pickup was that good. Of course it better be for $2000+ and if you lose the pen your screwed though.
    • by Octagon Most ( 522688 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:52AM (#6094897)
      "How do the screens hold up to human oils? Or the constant pressure of someones wrist on it?"

      Tablet PC screens are not touch-sensitive and thus do not have the layer of flexible, scratchable plastic film that PDAs do. Tablets require the use of their own pen which emits a small magnetic field sensed by the Tablet. Thus the Tablet screen knows when the pen is close. At that point it activates the cursor which you move around with the pen near, but not touching, the screen. Then when the pen actually touches the screen the Tablet activates the on-screen "ink" mode. Since Tablet PCs have much larger screens than a PDA you are likely to have your hand resting on the screen. They are designed for that and your wrist would not affect it.

    • I've had my Motion TPC for about 2 1/2 months now, thanks to a > $600 developer discount. I use it pretty hard (it's my work and home machine) and have yet to see a single scratch on the screen. Its main weakness, IMHP, is video. It has an onboard Intel graphics chip that uses system RAM. Even maxed out at 1GB, opening more than a couple windows in dial-monitor mode starts to bog it down pretty good. Other than that it's a great machine.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:17AM (#6094691)
    Major Tablet PC Running Into Problems?

    Well, I'm sure if Major Tablet PC got promoted to Lieutenant Colonel Tablet PC, he could pull rank and avoid doing the damn obstacle course where he keeps running into things. :P

  • by Deathlizard ( 115856 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:19AM (#6094697) Homepage Journal
    A friend of mine has the Toshiba Tablet PC. It's pen has a tremendous feel and its excellent for sketching, and typing since it folds out to be a full flegded laptop.

    Is it worth $2000+ when I can get a laptop for $1000+ that can basicially do the same thing except Now I can't use a pen? No way. That's the problem with them. they are nowhere near price competitive to traditional laptops. If they were then would be selling like hotcacks.

    Its a cool technology that prices itself out of the market. pure and simple.
    • Is it worth $2000+ when I can get a laptop for $1000+ that can basicially do the same thing except Now I can't use a pen? No way.

      Agreed. Also, haven't I seen those Wacom drawing/CAD tablets on eBay for about $100USD, for those odd times when you need to draw or write? I would expect a dedicated drawing tablet would be more tactile and more rugged than drawing directly on the screen. Plus, having the drawing tablet and output screen separate makes writing easier for us southpaws...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:24AM (#6094723)
    At my office (which is Windows only, none of that Linux stuff here), we use Tablet PC's because they make sense. Doctors and nurses can review charts, make notes, change scripts and do what needs to be done on the spot without having to open a laptop up and start typing or waiting to get back to their desks (and remember everything they wanted to do/say).

    No, tablet PC's are not the solution to everyone, but they are for the medical industry. And Microsoft already has deep roots in the medical industry.
    • And Microsoft already has deep roots in the medical industry.

      Microsoft is somtimes used for invoicing in smaller offices, and once in a while you can find it in a Shitty-Patient-Tracking-Access-Pusdo-Database. Complete with huge buttons, and crappy background bitmaps.

      But for actually research, diagnosis, and appliation - nobody uses a desktop OS for that, let alone XP.

      Protien folding with an XP box - that'd be funny.

    • If tablet PC's are "not the solution [for] everyone"--that is, if they are a niche product--how will there ever be enough volume to get the prices down?

      No doubt it's possible to sustain a healthy business segment in a niche product. I can see tablets being purchased by those who REALLY NEED them, and are therefore willing to pay enough of a premium to sustain a low-volume product.

      But this isn't terribly interesting to the rest of us.

      The question that interests most of us is whether tablets are a compelli
    • And Microsoft already has deep roots in the medical industry.

      This worries me tremendously.

      How long until something deep within the hastily-written and poorly-tested tens of millions of lines of code in Windows burbs, and a patient gets injured or dies.

      When will people realize that Windows is the least appropriate operating system for medical and military applications, where lives are literally on the line.

      Seeing Microsoft products in these applications makes me sick.
  • Perhaps... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by athlon02 ( 201713 )
    if they gave those thing CPUs that topped the 1.7GHz mark instead of 800-1GHz range they'd sell more :P
  • drawing tablet (Score:2, Interesting)

    To be truly sellable to the mass population, the tablet shall have the following attributes:

    • Pressure sensitive stylus
    • Angle sensitive stylus
    • High scan rate on the pen (30-60 scans/sec)
    • IR interconnectivity
    • Price point < $300USD

    The focus then becomes an artists drawing pad.

  • Tablet PC running into Major Problems
    or
    Microsoft Windows XP Tablet PC edition running into major problems.
    or
    Majority of top-shot CEOs refuse to buy Tablets
    or
    Viagra tablets sell faster than PC tablets
    or
    Tablets giving headaches to HPaq, Acer, Microsft
    or
    etc...
  • by Max Romantschuk ( 132276 ) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:29AM (#6094758) Homepage
    Do a tablet PC which is cheap, lightweight, integrated wireless lan and has just enough power to browse the web comfortably... Then I'd get one at once so I could lie back on the couch and read articles while my partner watches TV.

    For serious computing I'd still want a desktop, but a tablet PC would indeed be perfect for browsing, even if it were a bit underpowered.

    My 2 cents anyway...
  • by peatbakke ( 52079 ) <peat@NospAM.peat.org> on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:32AM (#6094766) Homepage
    I've worked with a few tablet PCs, and I have to say that that there is a huge market for them from college students ... if the price is right.

    The tablet PC is fantastic for taking notes during lectures. It's unobtrusive, and you can turn the handwriting recognition off while you're maddly scribbling notes and drawing diagrams. Plug in a mic, and you've got a recording of the lecture for future reference.

    Later on you could run the recognition software, reorganize your notes, highlight, e-mail, print, etc. etc. Plug in a keyboard and a mouse, and suddenly you've got a "normal" computer for browsing the 'net, writing papers, and, erm, acquiring music.

    The "perfect" tablet for this market would have a lightweight OS, 10GB HD, wifi, low power CPU (Crusoe?) and dimensions roughly the same as an A4 or 8x10 pad of paper (12.1" screen, ~1/2" thick).

    How many students would buy one if they were under $1000? What's your personal price point?
  • by rtechie ( 244489 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:32AM (#6094770)
    As many people have said, one one the big reasons TabletPCs aren't doing well is price. What they aren't saying is that most of that extra price comes from the expensive LCD touchscreen, which is necessary for pointing with a stylus and handwriting recognition.

    And it's that latter feature that's killing adoption. People just don't want handwriting recognition, especially the kind of power users likey to be eraly adopters of new technology. Why? Simply because handwriting recognition at this stage is still pretty buggy, and even if it wasn't, HANDWRITING ISN'T AS FAST AS TYPING. As I suspect most power users are fairly good typists, handwriting recognition is of little value to them.

    And as a "new generation" of users that have grown up with computers matures, there will be even less incentive for handwring recognition. Anyone notice the trend in PDAs has been towards keyboards and away from recognition? This isn't a coincidence, it's the maturing market base.

  • by Pflipp ( 130638 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:32AM (#6094771)
    I, as many others, repeat my argument: if these things were pressure sensitive, they would have been a hell of a drawing tool, but as they're not, they're just some sort of computers which are in some cases even more limited than normal ones.
    • Apparently you missed that Wacom is the OEM for most of the tablet digitizing systems?

      Take a look at:
      http://www.wacom.com/tabletpc/index.cfm

      There's link to a download which enables pressure sensitivity for graphics apps (Download enhanced driver for Tablet PC).

      Other comments in no particular order:

      - there are convertible machines with keyboards (Toshiba's Portege)

      - building a Tablet PC is a lot more complex than just removing the keyboard from a laptop and adding a digitizer---cf. Fujitsu's Stylis
  • My experience ..... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sergeant Beavis ( 558225 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:38AM (#6094791) Homepage
    With tablet PCs has generally been positive. We've tried out two different models, the Toshiba 3505 and Compaq TC 1000. Both have their shortcomings but both are incredibly useful as well. I purchased the Toshiba for our CEO who uses it constantly for presentations, notetaking, and normal ultra portable laptop use. The Toshiba itself is, IMO, the absolute best of all the tablets. It was certainly built to a higher standard. The Compaq is pretty well built too (a surprise to me). I was very impressed with the way you can detach the slate (screen) from the keyboard. We're using it as the basis of one of our future products. My only real gripe with Compaq is the Crusoe processor which is woefully underpowered. Good battery life or not, it takes way to long to boot and start background apps. However, for our, less processor intensive projects (it will be running some web based apps) it is just fine. The Toshiba with it's 1.3PIII isn't nearly as bad. It has plenty of power for a business laptop. I was surprised by the gaming comment in the original article since not one of these machines were ever intended for such use. Go buy a Dell Insprion 8500 if you want that (an excellent machine in its own right). The biggest gripe I would have is the price. Tablet PCs are dreadfully overpriced IMO.

    I'm not too surprised to see this product being hacked to death on /. This product was never meant for Nerds and Geeks. This is a business machine that will find it's niche with Sales, Marketing, and Management departments, not IT. It is pretty darn decent at doing the job it was built to do.

    • Also the guy who draws for penny arcade bought one has found it incredibly useful as a mobile sketchbook for rough drawings that he can bring about to events, and then he does the pictures are done up on a proper pc and photoshop.
  • Missing the point... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by badasscat ( 563442 ) <basscadet75@@@yahoo...com> on Monday June 02, 2003 @07:58AM (#6094947)
    but I don't think you'd want it for gaming and the like.

    Tablet PC's - at least the majority of them - are nothing but convertible laptop computers. Nothing more, nothing less. I couldn't play games on my laptop - it's not powerful enough - but my wife sure could on hers. Stick a swivel touch-screen on our computers and bam, they're both tablet PC's. The point being, there's nothing whatsoever about the fact that a PC is a tablet PC that rules it in or out for gaming or any other computing task.

    The hype for these things has gone beyond what the actual product is, and I don't think it's served the product well. I'd love to have a tablet PC - it's a laptop with a useful extra feature (especially for design work, which I do occasionally). If you want a laptop, why don't you want a laptop with this extra feature? It's like putting built-in wi-fi into a laptop (which I think is a much bigger innovation, honestly) and then giving those laptops their own product category and specialized launch. It's just a feature, and one that a lot of people would like if they actually got to use it. There's no reason to not want a laptop with this feature if you already want a laptop... maybe you don't want to pay the extra $100 or whatever (that's really about all the premium is), but eventually that won't even be a factor.

    btw, I think the word "vendors" was left off the headline of this story - I read the headline and thought that a particular model of tablet PC had developed a defect. I expected to read a story about a recall based on the headline.
  • Tablets (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <jason.nash@nosPam.gmail.com> on Monday June 02, 2003 @08:03AM (#6094987)
    The people we've deployed Tablet PCs to love them. We're using the Compaq TC1000 with the removeable keyboard, so it's a great compromise. Along with wireless it's perfect for most managers that end up in meetings a lot. The only problem is the old battery life issue. They are better than notebooks, but not great yet.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    ...for anything to survive very well other than a vanilla notebook:

    As long as you can buy a $899 1.6GHz namebrand pentium notebook at Best Buy, few specialty PC makers can survive.

    A tablet PC, which needs to be sold for ~$2000 (since it is still a specialty item), but has no better specs than such a $899 machine is just not enticing for most consumers.

    Another example is the AlphaSmart Dana, a notebook built with the Palm OS and designed for schools:

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID = 43 78
  • Is anyone suprised? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anita Coney ( 648748 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @08:04AM (#6094999) Homepage
    As slashnot.com stated:
    "The Viewsonic Tablet PC is an excellent way to pay twice as much for a laptop by removing the keyboard, CD-ROM drive and Floppy."

    Let's face it, Tablet PCs are essentially expensive stripped down laptops. While they might have some very handy specific uses, for the vast majority of people a laptop is a much better solution, i.e., cheaper with more value.

    Microsoft's push for the Tablet PC is an attempt to get people who don't know how to type to buy computers. There are many people who never typed before and are frustrated by computers. The paper/pen metaphor is supposed to appease those people. Unfortunately, anyone who has avoided computers up to now clearly has NO USE for a computer. Especially one that costs SO much!
  • I would love to have one - I'd use it all the time (I dont' play games much, but if I did, I'd use a separate machine of course). The problem is they're too damn expensive. The only one I know of with USB 2.0, one of my main requirements, is the new one from Motion Computing ( http://www.motioncomputing.com/ [motioncomputing.com] ), and I can't spend two and a half grand on a computer that slow, when I can get a low power desktop and monitor for just over three hundred.
  • Wrong features (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dschuetz ( 10924 ) * <davidNO@SPAMdasnet.org> on Monday June 02, 2003 @08:12AM (#6095054)
    They're positioning the TabletPC as a laptop you can write on. I think that's the big mistake -- trying to make this a laptop, when they can't possibly compete with laptops for the price. You end up with something that's too big, too heavy, runs too hot, eats batteries too fast, and is too damned slow to be as useful as it could be.

    What I want is, essentially, a letter-sized PDA. Something I can take notes on, browse the web via 802.11 or whatever, read email, and that's about it. If I want to do CAD/CAM, or gaming, or write a 200-page document, then I'll use a desktop. No Windows, no Linux even -- Palm OS would be ideal.

    With such a tablet, I could leave it sitting on my coffee table. We're watching a movie, and someone asks "what else was he in?" I hit pause, pick up the tablet, tap "on", and it instantly comes on, just like a Palm. I hit the web browser, go to IMDB, write in my query, and answer the question. Then I set it down and resume the movie. Total time, from question to answer and back to movie: 60 seconds.

    Do that with a tablet PC, running *any* OS.

    Keep a little cradle on the side that it can charge from, hook that via Cat-5 to the network, have some kind of synchronization software running on some server, and you've now got the ability to hot-sync, with no computer in your family room. Pick the thing up when you go to work and read all the news, while on the subway, that got synch'd to it overnight. Go to starbucks on your lunch hour and catch up on personal email. Whatever.

    Anything you can do with a PDA, you should be able to do just as easily with a tablet. It's a logical extension of the PDA to a larger form-factor for reading full-sized documents, web surfing, collaboration around a coffee table, etc. But it doesn't need to be a full-out laptop.

    Really, this seems to me a no-brainer, and it should be trivially easy for a hardware maker to implement. Just take the guts from one of the newer Palm models (with the 400 MHz XScale processor), add 64 MB of flash RAM, a CF slot (bundled with a 64 MB card, obviously the end user can expand that) for long-term storage, stick in bluetooth and 802.11, and build it all into a lightweight 1024x768 portable display. Add recharchable batteries, stir, and put out a press release. Sell it for $700, and I'll buy one tomorrow.
    • Re:Wrong features (Score:2, Interesting)

      by theflea ( 585612 )
      I agree. Another problem is selling these to corporate clients during a recession and a tech bust. A simpler model as you describe could play well in the home if done right.

      Your family already has a fast, new pc? This would make a great companion, eliminate fights between who gets to use the computer.

      There is also a significant number of folks out there running very old machines at home. They have probably been thinking about upgrading for a while. Heck, there are still people that don't even have a
  • Not a laptop (Score:2, Interesting)

    I'm suprised to see everyone comparing them to laptops or desktops (gaming?). I want one specifically for things I can't do with a laptop. Lie in bed and sketch. Curl up on the couch and write by hand. Yes, typing is faster, but when working creatively cramming at a table isn't quite as inspiring.
  • The sales recovered recently after Acer launched its first Centrino-based Tablet PC, the TravelMate C110, in April. Monthly sales of Acer's Tablet PCs have grown by 20-30% from early this year, sources said.

    So a new, faster, less power draining processor, has INCREASED sales?

    Still does not make up fo price, but it is nice to see that while a small market, it is not stagnant.
  • Fujitsu (Score:2, Informative)

    by Lester67 ( 218549 )
    You're right... the Fujitsu is the nicest of the bunch.... when it works.

    I've had to send mine back TWICE for a failed NIC. The first time they replaced the systemboard, and it worked for about a month. It just went back for the second failure. Wireless works great, and the handwriting recognition kicks ass, even with my shoddy penmanship.

    The Toshiba is a close second, although it is more of a laptop with a pen than a tablet. The weight difference between it and the Fujitsi is noticable. And even tho
  • Terrific! Now Acer/HP will be dumping them like the fabled "Internet Appliances" (iopener/audrey/ia1/etc) on the net.

    Ive got a ia1 w/ Lignux in my living room, very underpowered and a badish screen just dying to get repalced w/ an 802.11/touchscreen tablet...

    Bring on the DISCONTINUED-DISCOUNTED tigerdirect deals!

  • by color of static ( 16129 ) <smasters@NOspam.ieee.org> on Monday June 02, 2003 @08:57AM (#6095347) Homepage Journal
    I've been using the Motion computing one (M1200) for almost six months now and for windows work it does everything I need (mail, documentation, some programming, some SysAdmin tasks). I still keep a linux workstation, but have been relying more and more on cygwin and a linux instance running in VMware on the tablet.

    There are some points though that I would like to make in response to a whole lot of messages above.

    1) The screen is 12" and 1024x768, but I regularly use the VGA port when at my desk to run dual desktops on a monitor running 1280x1024. With the tablet in portrait mode next to it it works very well.

    2) The pen interface is more natural then a keyboard. You just start marking up documents, or jotting down notes. This doesn't replace the keyboard (not by a long shot for some tasks), but more accuratly it replaces paper.

    3) These boxes have more then enough umpf for everything except your high end games. With the 1GHz Centrinos coming out I expect that even the games will be OK, but is that really a buying criteria for an office/work machine?

    4) Having searching of handwritten notes is invaluable, and makes paper replacement not only viable but desirable.

    Alright, given the price and specs they aren't for everyone, but neither is any other machine available. This product fits a large niche, and as the upgrade cycles occur in companies and governments I expect them to be adopted about at the rate PCs were in the mid 80's. That is nothing to sneeze at.
  • It's no surprize to me at all that they don't take off!

    Every ad that I've seen shows something like a guy drawing on his hand or somesuch to take an important note, and comparing it with him taking the same note on a tablet PC.

    If you're going to lug a tablet PC around with you, I don't think it's unreasonable to figure that you could probably remember to carry a good old fashioned notepad. You know. The kind with paper and a pen.

    Since the only way they market themselves is basically a $2000 pad of paper,
  • Gaming (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Captain_Frisk ( 248297 ) <captain_friskNO@SPAMbootless.org> on Monday June 02, 2003 @09:06AM (#6095418) Homepage
    I'd agree that the tablet PC wouldn't be very good for your conventional FPS or any game that required alot of 3D stuff.

    However, I do think that the tablet could work for RTS games like starcraft, where your mousing accuracy would no longer be a limiting factor.

    If you took it a step further, I bet you could make a bunch of neat strategy style games that a pen interface would be better for. Imagine being able to give your troops walking directions by drawing on the screen.

    I'm interested in picking up a tablet and seeing what I could make with it, but the cost is just too prohibitive to do it just for kicks.
  • by DavidinAla ( 639952 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @09:16AM (#6095484)
    The problem with the Tablet PC (and the reason that I never expected it to sell well) is that it's the sort of device that a lot of geeks say is, "cool," but it is NOT the sort of device that solves problems for most people. It's one of those things that many people might take for free (just because the concept seems cool), but the minor benefits of the machine aren't enough to outweigh the cost or the other negatives (for the vast majority).

    There might be a few markets where the benefits outweigh the costs (vertical medical applications, maybe?), but I can't think of many where they are truly cost-effective. After trying to use laptops and PDAs for notes and schedules and such, I still find that the easiest thing for ME to use for most of my needs like that is still a piece of paper. The cost ($2 vs. $2,600) and "user interface" of a cheap paper notebook still make it superior for a lot of things, even if it DOES seem cool to geeks to be able to write on a screen with a stylus.

    I don't expect Tablet PCs to take off any time soon, and I still think that PDAs as we know them are dying, too. (I thought Steve Jobs was wrong about PDAs in the beginning, but I know fewer and fewer non-geeks who use them.) A Tablet PC is interesting technology, but it doesn't solve a problem that people really want solved.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Just recently purchased the Acer C104CTi ($1699, P3-900, WiFi, DVD/CD-RW, 1394, USB, 10.4" TFT,Convertible,...). I like the college notebook size and the 3 lbs weight (anything less would be too flimsy). At work I use it to capture notes in meetings, translate notes into text, and then email out. With the WiFi, I can maintain connectivity at any meeting w/out wires. At home, I watch TV, cook, workout, etc all while surfing the net. The touchscreen comes in handy when you just want to lay the tablet down and
  • by iceblade ( 137976 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @09:50AM (#6095821)
    I bought a Compaq TabletPC last year. I wasn't in search of a problem, I wanted this technology to solve my problems: Non intrusive note-taking with text an graphics mixed during meetings and workshops, store all information in one place where could search for it. Because of the high-end price it should replace my old laptop for business modeling, project planning and presentations.

    My conclusion: A TabletPC is a luxury, but heavy PDA replacement and isn't very usefull as a replacement for a real laptop. Most of the software needs a complete rethinking and the hardware is feeble. So i bought a brand new Apple Powerbook and I'm happy now.

    My detailed experiences with TabletPC Software were: Microsoft XP TabletXP Edition was quite unstable (2 crashes a day), Microsoft Journal works fine, Microsoft OneNote Beta was absolutely not usable (imho wrong concept for a notetaking application), Covey TabletPlanner is ok, but you wouldn't need another Outlook (it works fine on a TabletPC). The absolute KilleApp in the note-taking area is from my point of view Mindjets Mindmanager for TabletPC (good concept, consequent implementation, high value).

    My experiences with Compaq hardware: The TabletPC's connection between main unit and keyboard is very unstable and could be damaged easily. The built-in WLAN connection is very weak, I needed a extra Orinocco WLAN Adapter to get in working in our office. The missing bluetooth adapter is very unconveniend and I see no reason for that (the price couldn't be an argument).

  • by dgenr8 ( 9462 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @10:21AM (#6096048) Journal
    vendors like Acer and Hewlett-Packard (HP) have even experienced declining sales of the products

    Therein lies the key. Notice that Toshiba isn't mentioned. This is because Toshiba is cleaning their clock! The 3500/3505 has the right mix of features -- mainly processor speed -- and consumers/businesses have figured this out.

    Someone above said a Tablet PC is like a big PDA. Exactly. It replaces your PDA which makes a whole lot more sense than trying to replace your cell phone. I pity anyone who carries all three...
  • by sheldon ( 2322 ) on Monday June 02, 2003 @01:38PM (#6097924)
    Good grief, why do you slashbots always get into this mentality of one size fits all. Tablet PC's are failing because not everybody wants one?

    Good grief. The computing market is huge, there is room for a variety of ideas because there are a large variety of problems to solve. Tablet PC makes sense for certain problems, just like a laptop does.

    I just don't get this mentality.

We are each entitled to our own opinion, but no one is entitled to his own facts. -- Patrick Moynihan

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