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Hardware

Strange New Keyboards and Mice 379

robyn217 writes "Over at ExtremeTech, I just reviewed a few strange new keyboards--and they're pretty "out there". On Monday, we posted a review of a vertical keyboard (imagine a standard keyboard split in half, with both side vertical). Today we posted the review of something that doesn't even resemble a keyboard--it's a whole new system of input. Tomorrow and for the rest of the week, we'll be posting new reviews of strange, but interesting input devices."
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Strange New Keyboards and Mice

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  • Whoa... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Squidgee ( 565373 )
    "we used every keyboard for one to three days on our production system without falling back to our old standard model

    Brave, insane souls...

  • vertical? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ansonyumo ( 210802 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:11PM (#5786198)
    I'd love to see my boss apply his hunt-and-peck approach to typing on that vertical keyboard. He'd probably end up in traction.

    • by Blaine Hilton ( 626259 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:46PM (#5786393) Homepage
      The question though should be if that would be a bad thing or a good thing?
    • Re:vertical? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by deadsaijinx* ( 637410 ) <animemeken@hotmail.com> on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:20PM (#5786549) Homepage
      as ammusing as that would be, I rather like the vertical keyboard design (yes, i have actually used one). By allowing your wrists to rest in a more natural position, this keyboard is suprising comfortable, and the learning curve isnt too bad. But it loses its merit when it comes to apps other than office apps. Using Maya is quite a chore (I run maya like I run a mac, one hand exclusively on the keyboard and the other exclusively on the mouse), as are most media production apps (if you're a power user anyway). Of course, it was designed for typing, and that it does well.
  • "Extreme" (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:11PM (#5786199)
    Let me get this straight...

    You post something nerdy to Slashdot, with a site whose articles are multi-paged, with images, running IIS and ASP?

    Jesus, that is extreme!
    • Re:"Extreme" (Score:2, Informative)

      by citog ( 206365 )
      The shame of it, people writing articles on a keyboard they are comfortable with on an OS they are comfortable with!
  • Um ... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Victor Liu ( 645343 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:14PM (#5786210) Homepage
    Not [slashdot.org] exactly [slashdot.org] new [slashdot.org]. There are more, I'm just too lazy to paste them all.
  • by Zapdos ( 70654 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:15PM (#5786224)
    Unicomp Buckling Spring keyboard when they pry my cold dead hands off of it. New sometimes is not better.

    • by UnassumingLocalGuy ( 660007 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:22PM (#5786271) Homepage Journal
      Bah, you and your "imposter" buckling-spring keyboards. Sure, they may be brand new... but I rescued my IBM Model M (born 4-MAR-94, P/N 82G2383) from a dumpster, next to some old IBM PS/2 486. The poor thing was almost brown when I got it. Take it home, pop all the key caps, throw 'em in a mesh sack and toss them in the dishwasher, one cycle, and it looks almost brand new. I've had this keyboard for 5 years, and it definately got 4 years of heavy office use before I got my hands on it. Not a single key is dead--and it still keeps my poor roommate awake on late-night coding runs.
      • by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @11:31PM (#5787082) Journal

        Well, you've got me beat. My IBM model M2 (born 1-DEC-94, P/N 73G4614) was purchased at a computer surplus in trade for a brand-new keyboard + $5. Why the trade? Because I had just returned from a "big box" store where I purchased a brand-new PS/2 keyboard without realizing how annoying the "Windows keys" would be. I have no use for those keys, not even in Windows. They make ctrl and alt feel... wierd and confusing. The service at the surplus store has always been so friendly, I felt better giving them a brand new kb than I did paying a 20% restocking fee to the big box. Just the other day I got a 1200 dpi scanner from them for $15 and it works great. An institution like that deserves my support... anyway, I digress.

        The only reason I had to get a new keyboard was because my Acer was getting sticky, and the AT to PS2 converter broke off. That converter always caused intermittant keyboard errors anyway because it was always jiggling loose.

        My IBM is almost as comfortable as the Acer. The only thing I miss is the fat enter key, and having slash just to the left of a small backspace key. Otherwise, my IBM is just like the Acer, which I think is about as good as keyboard layout can get. The IBM has as its saving grace the fact that it's PS/2, so I never get any wiggle-outs or keyboard errors.

        I've tried, but I can't find anybody who makes "fat enter key, no windows keys, full sized with numeric keypad" USB keyboards. That animal just doesn't seem to exist. I see a PS/2 to USB converter in my future...

        • I've tried, but I can't find anybody who makes "fat enter key, no windows keys, full sized with numeric keypad" USB keyboards. That animal just doesn't seem to exist. I see a PS/2 to USB converter in my future...

          Look at some of the ``Mac'' keyboards (not just from Apple). Of course you end up with Apple/Command keys, but they make swell Metas....

      • by dgoodman ( 51656 )
        Mine came with my parents' long dead IBM PS/2 model 30 (a 80286-10, for those who can remember that far back). Incept date: 1987. Still working perfectly after 16 years of daily constant use, happily attached to my desktop.

        Beat that =)
        • 10-JUL-86. Came as original equipment with an IBM AT. Has the square metal IBM logo in the upper right hand corner instead of the plastic IBM logo in the upper left.

          Beat that.
      • Well I got mine with my new IBM PS/2 486DX2 (66 MHz! almost 4 full megs of RAM! 256MB HDD! Only $3,000 at The Wiz) the keyboard was really annoying when I was trying to stay on AOL late into the night (hey I was like 13 and VERY new to computers) paying like $1 an hour or whatever the rate was. My mother would hear the keyboard and wake up to yell at me so I had to type really slow (which didn't help much, although if I typed at the speed I type now, the noise would have driven my mother insane.
    • by enkidu ( 13673 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:27PM (#5786580) Homepage Journal
      At work I use a Happy Hacking Keyboard [yahoo.com]. At home, I use an IBM Model M (part# 1391472, birthday July 23, 1987). I love the compact layout of the Happy Hackin Keyboard and I love the positive click and rock solid (no make that titanium billet solid) feel of the M. Would somebody please, please make a USB, HHKb Lite layout, buckling spring keyboard? I'd be willing to pay up to US$400 for a keyboard like this. Provided, of course, it's as tough as my M. (I intend to pass my M down to my children.)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Weird keyboard weird.

    Weird mouse good.
  • by drayzel ( 626716 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:15PM (#5786229)
    The next big thing in Keyboard design will be one handed keyboards optimized for the internet.

    Sure there have been "internet" keyboards for awhile now with little speed buttons to launch your e-mail client or a web address. But a one handed keyboard will be optimzed for the #1 use for the net these days ;)

    A special IRC client could be included with each unit sold... you could call it jIRC :)

  • by MvdB ( 260047 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:18PM (#5786237)
    It doesn't matter at all if the design of the keyboard is over 100 years old. The wheel is way older than that and we're still happily using it. What I'm saying is that comparing keyboard design with the speed of a processor is not a valid comparison.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:44PM (#5786379)
      No, it does matter that the design is over 100 years old. There's rather a lot more reaching, stretching, and awkward motions required by a QWERTY key layout than is strictly necessary to get the job done -- hence the Dvorak key layout. If you're unfortunate enough to develop RSI problems, you'll sing a different tune about using a suboptimal key layout.

      spam-magnet@tty1.org
    • that is the first thing I thought as well, it's comparing apples to oranges, right? But there is some merit, the wheel (as is your reference) is still a constantly evolving peice of hardware (after how many eons?). Every year, the tire companies roll out with some new advancements (pun left in on purpose) and the evolution of the wheel continues. Now, I am quite used to my QWERTY board, and am not apt to change it soon. But have you tried the vertical board, its actually quite comfortable.
      Now, that mouse they showed, though more erogronomical, doesn't work out all that well in practice. The mouse currently relies on very precise side-to-side movement of your wrists, something that is much more difficult to do with the sideways mouse.
    • devolution (Score:4, Interesting)

      by twitter ( 104583 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @10:41PM (#5786925) Homepage Journal
      keyboard - 130 years old.

      written launguage - 8,000 years old.

      spoken word - as old as mankind.

      gestures - part of the animal kingdom.

      There you have it, computers by recognizing speach and gestures are bucking the communications trend. Who would have thunk that the silicone gods could not come up with a better way of interacting with our computers than a bunch of grunts and shifts?

  • Not for gamers? (Score:5, Informative)

    by MMaestro ( 585010 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:18PM (#5786239)
    At this time, SafeType does not make a mouse that fits this keyboard. However, they do recommend the Quill mouse, [...] It retails for around $100 dollars and is available in right-handed and left-handed versions directly from the manufacturer.

    Is a Special Mouse Necessary? Yes, it's not easy to flip between the SafeType keyboard and a standard mouse because it requires the forearm to swivel from a neutral position to a pronated position very frequently. After a day or two, the wrists can get a little sore.

    The cost of the keyboard and special mouse is $329 USD, easily more expensive than some top of the line computer hardware and rivals some high quality monitors as bank breakers. With that considered, not to mention having to get used to games with this setup, few games will ever use this, let alone see or touch it in real life.

  • Sniff Test (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mcrbids ( 148650 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:18PM (#5786241) Journal
    From the article:
    If you're typing on a standard QWERTY keyboard, and most of us are, then your keyboard design is over 100 years old (135 years old, to be exact). Can you imagine using a hard drive that was designed a decade ago? Or a processor from two centuries past?

    I call bulls--t!

    The hard drive of today is a highly refined, miniaturized version of a design that goes back at least to the 1970s.

    My ergonomic keyboard was definitely *NOT* designed 135 years ago. Mechanically, it has as much in common with a mechanical typewriter as a lawn mower has in common with a vibrator. (basically, nothing)

    • Keyboard Layout (Score:2, Insightful)

      by headkase ( 533448 )
      He's referring to the keyboard layout. The QWERTY layout is actually designed to slow down typing. This is because if you typed too fast on an old mechanical typewriter you would jam up the keys.
      • Re:Keyboard Layout (Score:2, Informative)

        by Q-Hack! ( 37846 )
        The QWERTY layout is actually designed to slow down typing.

        This is a fallacy. The QWERTY layout was designed to keep the keys from sticking, thereby increasing speed.

    • by ansonyumo ( 210802 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:22PM (#5786263)
      Depends on the vibrator.

      BWARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    • What he's refering to is the layout of the letters and such on a keyboard. Of course we have some new characters that weren't there before, (@, etc.) but the rest pretty much stayed the same. And your ergonomic keyboard is just a keyboard split in two, with a bulge in the middle.

      As a sidenote, I think the reason that why we don't change keyboard layouts as often as processors (or at all) is because of the time required to learning to use a new layout, let alone something like the vertical keyboard. And ma

    • by glwtta ( 532858 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:34PM (#5786331) Homepage
      as a lawn mower has in common with a vibrator. (basically, nothing)

      pft, lightweight.

  • by agentkhaki ( 92172 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:19PM (#5786246) Homepage
    It's nice to see Safetype [safetype.com] actually making these boards.

    When I was out and about searching for something beyond the flat-as-a-pancake keyboard, I'd originally seen this design all over the web, but only as the product of research at Cornell, with no actual plans to put it into production. Seems they've changed their position on that front, though.

    Here is [cornell.edu] Cornell's white paper on the vertical keyboard and its effects on posture and the like.

    I ended up with a Goldtouch [goldtouch.com], which I am very happy with not only because it relieved any problems I was having, but because their customer service is among the best I've ever dealth with, anywhere, for *any* product or service out there. Wonderful people. They really stand behind their product.
    • I ended up with a Goldtouch [goldtouch.com], which I am very happy with...

      I own two of these. I think there's actually better than the Safetype, or any other ergonomic keyboard I've seen.

      I don't have any ergo or carpal issues. I bought my first GT because it has a small footprint and because they made some intelligent changes in the standard keyboard layout. But even though I didn't have any problems for the keyboard to cure, I could feel its ergonomic superiority.

      Another thing Goldtouch did right was

  • Wacky input devices (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Joehonkie ( 665142 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:20PM (#5786253) Homepage

    I believe the fellow who invented the mouse also had a matching one handed keyboard that never caught on.

    Also lets not forget the game oriented sort of keyboard devices like the Nostromo [thinkgeek.com], and the claw [thinkgeek.com]. And I'm suprised noone mentioned things like the DVORAK and split-maltron keyboards and such that are designed to speed up touch typing rather than slow it down (turns out the gains are really offset by the amount of time it would take to have everyone relearn touch typing).

  • Empirical Research? (Score:5, Informative)

    by webword ( 82711 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:21PM (#5786261) Homepage
    My general problem articles and reviews such as A Week of Wacky Input Devices [extremetech.com] is that they are not empirical. That is, little soft or hard research is done. I'd like more data bases on market research, user surveys, usability studies, and so forth. Opinions can certainly interesting and useful, but they don't have the same bite as research. Give me more data!

    If you are interested Dvorak keyboards, I suggest you check out The Fable of the Keys [utdallas.edu] by Liebowitz and Margolis (1990). At a minimum, it is a long article on why Dvorak failed economically, but it covers more ground than that.
  • by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:23PM (#5786273) Homepage Journal
    those ms 'ergo' keyboards that all the cool kids had a while back? with the blink-lights in the midle? (and the first keyboards i remember to have come with a warning-tag that using them might cause your wrists to go bad)

    and a much more further.. anybody got info on some spherical keyboards that were in use in 'ancient' typewriters? i just remember reading about something shaped like a ball that you had your palms around, that got swept away by the qwerty(i don't rember exact years when they were tried even, might have been 1800's, or beginning 1900's)..

    i tell you what i could use though, a keyboard that at the same time was dead silent, yet gave response to my fingers that the button was pushed, be totally flat too.

    come to think of it, screw that. i want one of those "do what i mean to do" devices.
    • Yup, the Microsoft "Natural Keyboards" - I'm the only one in the company that has one.

      They're worth having just to piss off the helpdesk guys everytime they put their greasy little hands on my machine.

      But yes, I do like it. But no, my hands and wrists still ocasionally hurt. I'd love a better solution, but I'm afraid of spending $100+ on something that's unproven (I got this keyboard for 20 bucks).

    • You can have my MS Natural v1 keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead hands. I've never found a keyboard with better response (even those IBM keyboards feel too bouncy) in my life. Sure it takes up an enormous amount of desk space and I've worn off half of the plastic on the keys, but my wrists have never hurt on it, no matter how much I type.

      It also doesn't drive me nuts with clicking, and has the backslash key where God intended. Nothing drives me nuts faster than those keyboards that move the back
    • never will i give up that tick-click sound that issues forth from my keyboard. I was once working on a friends keyboard, and the thing was totaly silent. You would not believe how empty you would feel without the auditory stimulus from your beloved keyboard; it's like a really annoying and loud child, you want it silent right now or you'll go INSANE!, but soon after you've killed the kid, you'll realize just how much you missed their skreetching at the top of their little lungs. ... or maybe that is the gui
  • Several comments (Score:5, Informative)

    by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:23PM (#5786275) Homepage Journal
    The 'vertical' keyboard is nothing new. Back in the AT days (93 or thereabouts) I was at a computer show where a vendor was showing off a standard keyboard, with two large knobs. One at either end. Rotating the knobs, broke open the keyboard, like a drawbridge, supposedly to allow the proper angle for typing without having to rotate your wrists to accomodate the flat keyboard.

    Neat, but not for $50.

    Next, is it me or is that site even more cluttered than THG or Ananananandtech? But then again, it *is* a ZiffDavis owned site.
  • by adzoox ( 615327 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:33PM (#5786323) Journal
    I really like the Logitech Netplay Keyboard [logitech.com] with dual integrated controllers. With a USB to Playstation controller adapter [ebay.com] I'm not only able to manipulate video in Final Cut Pro and Waveforms in Protools, but the L1 & R1 buttons are in just the right places/distance to be really nice pinball controller buttons.

    The keyboard is a little small but a nice touch that it's detachable making it a nice slim portable keyboard that happens to match my PowerBook G3. I hunt and peck anyway (but still 40 words a minute)

    I'd suggest it to anyone.

  • Bluetooth? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by foo fighter ( 151863 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:36PM (#5786339) Homepage
    What ever happened to bluetooth in desktop peripherals?

    I'm looking for new ones for a new computer I've built, and I want to get rid of as many cables as possible because it's going in a high-traffic part of my house.

    The only keyboard/mouse set I've found with bluetooth is a Microsoft set. Looks nice, but I'm not keen on supporting them. Has anyone else done this search and had any luck finding anything?

    BTW, I'm aware of other companies' proprietary wireless solutions. But if I'm getting bluetooth for my printer, PDA, etc., I'd like it for my keyboard and mouse as well. And with all the hype bluetooth has received I'd expect to see at least as many bluetooth sets as USB sets.
  • by xRelisH ( 647464 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:39PM (#5786356)
    Those mirrors on the vertical keyboard should have some small fineprint saying:
    "keys in mirror are closer than they appear"
  • So how many of you out there are actually able to touch type? I don't mean typing by touching the keys (muh) but touch typing as in USING ALL YOUR FINGERS AND THUMBS in a consistent manner... It cracks me up whenever I meet a CIO or IT manager who insists on improving productivity who then turns to his/her keyboard and proceeds to peer at it while trying to find the 'D'.
    Solve that problem and a lot of strain/stress issues would fade I believe. Train them up!
    • Hunt 'n peck typers are much less likely to suffer repetitive stress or CTS, since they dont hold their hands in the same position moving only their fingertips. All that hovering over the keyboard gives the wrists time to relax.
      • Ah, good point... although I was always very tense about typing before I learned how properly. TENSE!

        I read somewhere (great reference dufus)that typists never used to suffer from RSI when the typewriters were manual because they required a serious amount of muscle to move the keys - once we went electric that reduced (and typing speeds increased) and now there's no going back. But I'd pay for a keyboard that I could hook up to my PC that had a stiffer set of springs/whatever to reduce nerve twitching and
      • Very true, and not all us two-finger folks are slow, either. I type two-finger without looking at the keyboard most of the time (once I get "lined up" properly), and can do 50WPM or better if I'm typing stuff out of my own head. Sure, it's not as good as a decent touch typist, but it's not half bad, and since I don't write thousands of lines of code or take dictation for a living, it's plenty for me. Two-finger typing lets me keep my hands in a much more natural position: above the keyboard, fingers curled,
  • by Cade144 ( 553696 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:42PM (#5786369) Homepage

    I am getting carpal tunnel syndrome, and I am seeing a neruologist about it.

    I wonder if I could get my work to shell out $1250 for the nifty-looking cyber keyborad thingy? Not likely.
    When a cheap keyboard and mouse cost less than $12 each, I think they would rather I just suck it up and let me suffer dimishished capacity in my hands some 5-10 years down the road. Goodness knows if they will be my employers that far in the future.

    Even $300 for the vertical keyboard is steep. Most of my attempts to get even basic office supplies at work make me feel like I'm robbing the company.

    And darned if I am going to bring in one of those expensive gadgets to work, and risk that my investement in tech trinkets could be pilfered.
    One of those wacky gizmos would stand out on someone else's desk. The would-be thief would have to take it home instead of keeping it at their desk.

    Cool to look at though.

    • My problem is I want empirical evidence that what I'm going to switch to is an actual improvement. If I'm going to invest tens of hours becoming proficient in something wierd, I want scientific evidence that it prevents carpal tunnel syndrome. At least modern keyboards are a known hazard with known ways of dealing with them.

      The problem with all of these devices, not to mention even the simple solutions like "re-arrange to Dvorak", is that all of the claimed gains on carpal tunnel syndrome vs. a normal keyb
  • by Neolithic ( 70450 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:42PM (#5786371) Homepage
    If you're typing on a standard QWERTY keyboard, and most of us are, then your keyboard design is over 100 years old (135 years old, to be exact). Can you imagine using a hard drive that was designed a decade ago? Or a processor from two centuries past?

    Could you imagine speaking a language that's hundreds, if not thousands of years old? Could you imagine running an internal combustion engine that's almost 150 years old?

    There's a reason human-computer interface hasn't really changed. The fact that the human hasn't either isn't a big coincidence.
    • by EverDense ( 575518 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:26PM (#5786575) Homepage
      Could you imagine speaking a language that's hundreds, if not thousands of years old? Could you imagine running an internal combustion engine that's almost 150 years old?

      There's a reason human-computer interface hasn't really changed. The fact that the human hasn't either isn't a big coincidence.


      The English language has slowly evolved over time, as has the combustion engine. The human-computer interface has stagnated more through fear of change, than because of a good initial design.

      The cost of re-training people to use a new interface is also a real reason for the human-computer interface's failure to evolve.

      Unless someone can come up with a truly revolutionary interface (whose improvements to productivity are immense and can be measured) the QWERTY keyboard will remain as top dog.
      • Stagnated?

        My current keyboard is very different from the one on my first computer. My current one has a bunch of extra buttons above the function keys. It has a numeric keypad. It has a few extra keys around the space bar. The relative sizes of the keys are different. And the shape of some has changed.

        My mouse is different from my first mouse as well. My first computer didn't even have a mouse, and there wasn't one available for it either. It doesn't require a mouse pad to work, it has a bunch of extra bu
    • The keyboard was not designed to interface with a computer.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:49PM (#5786405)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I can't help but think my hands would get tired being vertical all the time. One advantage of the flat keyboard (even if it is unnatural) is that gravity helps me with some of the typing--I'm not holding my hand up all the time.
  • by blunte ( 183182 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:53PM (#5786431)
    Right here [keyalt.com].

    Maybe I missed it, but it didn't look like he reviewed several keyboards and mice; it just looked like one keyboard and one mouse.

    I used the BAT [keyalt.com] for a few weeks. It was great for non-programming, but for programming it was very inefficient (having to hit a chord to say "now I'm going to shift, or ctrl, or alt", and then having to hit the chord for the actual key. Some situations even required three chords in series to generate one character.

    But for writing, documenting, and emailing, it was really great. Mouse drivers would love it too, since it allows you to keep one hand on the mouse while your other hand does all the typing.

  • Datahand (Score:4, Interesting)

    by anon*127.0.0.1 ( 637224 ) <slashdot AT baudkarma DOT com> on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:55PM (#5786437) Journal
    I thought that device looked pretty interesting. Steep learning curve, but I'm really curious about what kind of speed a user could achieve if they got really proficient with it.

    It looks small enought to be tucked into a laptop bag, and I would imagine it's fairly quiet as well. Could be very useful for taking notes at meetings or lectures, where you want to keep distracting noises to a minimum.

    Of course, at $1295, I'll never get a chance to find out.

    • I use the datahand (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:26PM (#5786576)
      I use a Datahand every day at work. I got it due to some serious tendinitis I had about a year ago. My tendinitis was induced by a bad reaction to the antibiotic Cipro, if you're curious.

      The Datahand is not too bad to learn for the letters. But the numbers and symbols which are often used in programming take more time. It took me about 1 month to get used to it. I can type at a reasonable speed on it for English text. I use the built-in mousing feature, which is a drag. Cursoring around is not the way a mouse was designed to be used. But I learned a lot more keyboard shortcuts and it's not a huge hindrance. You can use a normal mouse with the datahand if you wish.

      The big claim of the datahand is that they've minimized both the force and distance required to press a key, and I feel this was a good choice for people with tendinitis. Also, the placement of the control, shift, return, and backspace keys on the thumbs is a big win and has definitely helped out my pinkie fingers.

      The datahand is about as noisy as any other keyboard.

      However, the datahand is expensive, and there is a new keyboard on the market now which claims to have zero force. www.fingerworks.com. It is a traditional keyboard layout, and looks pretty cool. I have considered trying one of these, and I think it would be portable enough for laptop use, they even market one specifically for that.

      If anyone is curious, my tendinitis has largely healed now due to physical therapy, stopping almost all keyboard activity for about 2 months, using the datahand after that and limiting my keyboard activities as much as possible for about 4 months, and taking frequent breaks from keyboarding even when using the datahand. I will probably always have to be careful about RSIs due to what happened, but I believe the datahand and a caring boss allowed me to get through a horrible time in my career.

      Now that my hands are pretty well healed, I use the datahand at work and my normal laptop keyboard at home. I feel that the diversity of using two different keyboards is also helpful in keeping RSI away.
  • by aftk2 ( 556992 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:59PM (#5786455) Homepage Journal
    Tomorrow and for the rest of the week, we'll be posting new reviews of strange, but interesting input devices.
    Heh, this just means that this same story will be posted four or five times. :)
  • Dasher (Score:5, Informative)

    by Theaetetus ( 590071 ) <theaetetus DOT slashdot AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:59PM (#5786459) Homepage Journal
    I stumbled across Dasher [cam.ac.uk] a few months ago... It's a point+and+spell type interface with a dictionary/learning-model built in such that it predicts what words you're about to spell. In about a half hour, I was "typing" at about 60 wpm. This is slower than my normal typing speed of 92 wpm, but far faster than the speed I get through the stylus on my Palm (usually about 10-15 wpm - YMMV).

    Unfortunately, I have a Palm-type Palm, but if I had PocketPC-type palm, I'd jump at this app.

    -T

  • by bodosom ( 119099 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:00PM (#5786465)
    I don't trust anyone who claims to make an ergo keyboard if I have to reach for the control key or the return key.
  • the verticle keyboards have been around for a while, they came out when carpel tunnel syndrom became big, but no one used them even then
  • Datahand (Score:3, Informative)

    by retostamm ( 91978 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:06PM (#5786487) Homepage
    I have a Datahand -- it's a device that is built to fit your hand. Each Finger rests in a well, there is a button you can push down, one forward, backwards, left and right.

    No need to peck keys, just move fingers.

    The best thing is that the control, shift, alt etc keys are controlled with your thumb. I've had it for 3 years now, and I love it.

    Here's a picture
    http://www.datahand.com/images/proiitest. jpg

  • I just got a cool looking micro (or mini) keyboard at Fry's for 15 bucks. It's like a laptop. I remember on my old Apple II GS the keyboard didn't have all those extra number pad keys. I thought I was missing out. Now I got my PC and I've come full circle replacing my big keyboard. See the thing is the reaching for the mouse. With a bigger keyboard you gotta reach farther. Since most of those keys are redundant I don't really miss them.

    I also feel a lot more symetrical now.

    I really like my new setup. On

  • We thought about performing typing tests to measure words-per-minute, but then shot that idea down because it's a difficult measure to generalize.

    So, what do you measure? Personally, I use my keyboard for typing (and gaming, but that doesn't really count so much since I use the mouse much more). I find sustained typing speed to be the real measure of a keyboard... If you can keep up 100 wpm for 10 minutes or more, that's a kick-ass keyboard... If you can do 120 wpm, but only for a minute and then have to

  • zboard (Score:3, Interesting)

    by outsider007 ( 115534 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:17PM (#5786532)
    I plan on getting one of these babies [ideazon.com], once they come out with more interfaces for it. especially since I tend to toss my keyboard as soon as it gets a little dirty.
  • He lost me ... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by A nonymous Coward ( 7548 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:21PM (#5786553)
    ... when he wrote how horrifying it is to use a 135 year old design ...

    your keyboard design is over 100 years old ... Can you imagine using a hard drive that was designed a decade ago? Or a processor from two centuries past?

    Well, pardon me, but the circular form of a disk drive is a lot older than that! Electricity has been around longer. One could argue that telegraphs pioneered on/off electronic signals.

    I am really tired of seeing these idiotic leadins. If the writer can't come up with something better than subtracting years to show how obsolete something is, then maybe it isn't quite so obsolete after all.

    Hey, did ya ever think how old the alphabet is? Why are we stuck using such old fashioned characters when we have the graphical ability to invent our own? Why not rationalize spelling in English? Why not invent a new language? Geez, think of just about every programming language out there, they use keywords like for, while, exit. Old as dirt words in the computer age? What is wrong here?

    Criminy.
  • by Gyorg_Lavode ( 520114 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:23PM (#5786561)
    The problem is not that there is a flaw in keyboards per-say, but that the input interface must change from pushing buttons. I see the progression of input as the current button to gestures to direct input, (ie, electric signals transmitted directly to the computer either through an implant or sensors attached to the body).

    Right now we have reached the beginning of the transition away from button inputs to gesture inputs. There are of course many projects working on gesture inputs. The first that are really viable are the 2D ones from fingerworks.com [fingerworks.com]. The next will be refined versions of the P5 Glove [essentialreality.com] or the sensible phantom [sensable.com]. I think eventually gesture based input will be the type used in Minority Report [minorityreport.com], (see the 1st and 10th images in the gallery).

    Finally, I think we will move on to direct input. It's been shown that people can control very simple objects, (move a ball to the top or bottom of the screen), with electrodes connected to their head. Unfortunately so far it has not been responsive enough to see application. Input may also be of the form in Ghost in the Shell [manga.com] where people have wireless connections through implants in their body and also physical jacks in the back of their neck. (Another thing shown in the movie are fingers that come apart on wires to type. Rather than that I'd expect a low-power data transmission in the fingers so set the fingers in appropriately shaped cavities and have the data transmitted across the skin.)

    Keyboards are nice. They have worked for a long time, but it is time to replace them. Slowly we can transition from keyboards, through the 2D gesture inputs of fingerworks to 3D inputs along the lines of minority report at which time, hopefully, direct input methods will be viable.

    • The gestures as a method of text input are doomed because the gesture devices don't provide the tactile feedback. I mean: They don't click. Without this feature, the gestures must rely on the sophisticated methods of gesture-to-dictionary mapping that narrow their use to natural-language text input.

      BTW the same argument fully relates to different virtual keyboards projected by laser rays and, somehow, to the most modern non-clicking rubber-contact keyboards where you cannot be sure that the key was really
    • The problem is not that there is a flaw in keyboards per-say, but that the input interface must change from pushing buttons.

      Why is there an problem with an interface based on pushing buttons? I can't imagine any gesture based interface becoming more useful than a keyboard. While quite primative, I use the gesture feature in Mozilla, and while it is useful to some extent, most of the gestures go unused because they're too complicated to learn and to use.

      I like typing a whole lot better than writing wi

  • According the manufacturer, the vertical placement of the keyboard allows the user to type while keeping the forearms in a neutral position (with the thumbs up). With a standard flat keyboard, in order to type the hands are rotated so that the palms are parallel with the floor (this is called a "pronated" position). In the pronated position, the bones in the forearm twist with the wrist and scissor. This scissoring of the bones causes extra pressure to be forced upon the Carpal Tunnel.

    Hey, just for

    • You're right of course. Vertical keyboards are nothing new, but this is the first one I've seen where you cannot adjust the angle. Taking a look around work, where there are several "split" keyboards, I find that most are between 30 and 45 degrees.
  • by DavidBrown ( 177261 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:30PM (#5786590) Journal
    Why, exactly, is having QWERTY keyboards a bad thing?

    Sure, there are variations. Split key keyboards, the funky vertical keyboards, and the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard, the best keyboard of all time (I have four).

    But, all of these keyboards have QWERTY, despite the objections of many who think that there's a better way.

    This is really a lesson in interface design. An interface becomes embedded in the subconscious quickly, and it's hard to change once it's in place.

    This is why steering wheels, and brake and accelerator pedals haven't changed much in 100 years.

    The keyboard and the mouse are the true interface to modern computers. It's not really Windows, Linux, and OSX, it's the damn things that you put hand to in order to make your computer work.

    The UI has gone through about 15 years of evolution, but will eventually stop evolving. Keyboard design has been mostly stagnent, and the changes that are made after the first couple of years are usually the result of new technology (examples: Function keys, mouse wheels, fixed macro buttons (e-mail, calculator, etc.).

    The UI (the on the screen) should be the same way too. Making radical changes to the UI - changes that seem to take place with every iteration of Windows or Apple's OS, confuse users and make things more difficult. In theory, these UI's should evolve into something more or less constant. The problem with this, of course, is economics and the needs of marketing. Hopefully, people will eventually come to recognize that they don't need a new version of Word this year, or most any other year.

  • dvorakk (Score:5, Funny)

    by Flunitrazepam ( 664690 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:41PM (#5786647) Journal
    hiollo guys iim usuing aa vdevorak keyborad to typ this ann itts gereaat!
  • Kinesis Keyboards (Score:5, Interesting)

    by am 2k ( 217885 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:46PM (#5786673) Homepage
    I got a Kinesis Advantage [kinesis-ergo.com] a few months ago - it's much better than any keyboard I've seen before.

    BUT: it's not because of the strange design. It's nice, but after the adaption phase, I'm at about the same speed as before (albeit it feels better then before).
    The real feature of the keyboard is its reprogrammability. I can remap all the keys, define macro commands, everything directly on the keyboard, without any drivers (it's a regular USB keyboard for the computer). It works fine for all OSes that support USB keyboards. You can plug it into another computer, and all your macros are still there.

    It's really a great thing, especially if you want to scare visitors :) (that smilie is mapped to F1 btw, no need for shifting around)

  • by Q-Hack! ( 37846 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:59PM (#5786737)
    When voice recognition works so wheel.
  • A computer with no keyboard and no mouse... responding to voice instructions, and which tracks eye position and body and hand gestures as additional input sources. The voice instruction interface would feel completely natural -- as natural as it is communicating with another individual in the same room.

    Programming would not be done by entering code line-by-line as is common today, but by instantiating entire design patterns that the computer would produce, customized to the programmer-supplied specification, on command. And, of course, it would be possible to create new design patterns for later use. In a pinch, manual keyboard entry could be used to fine tune some details, but would be about as common in regular programming as assembly programming is today in end-user applications.

    The display would be projected onto any more-or-less neutrally colored flat surface that was conveniently located, for use anywhere and anytime.

    -5 offtopic

  • that 90% of /. readers will get this year.

    And even sadder that only 80% of the same readers even know what 'strange' is.

    And still even sadder that you don't.

    So flame away!
  • Turn the page for a better description of the maps.

    I rotated my screen in every direction but couldn't find the map description.

  • by leeet ( 543121 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @10:23PM (#5786846) Homepage
    QWERTY appeared when people were typing so fast on a typewriter that the "arms" would stick together. The letters were placed so that there was a maximum of movement (=time) possible (thus eliminating two "hammers" from hitting at the same time).

    So basically, we are stuck with the most inneficient technique available. I think that keyboards should use the same interface but letters should be moved to different places. A few common letters like A and E should be available on "both sides" in order to speed up typing.

    Why is the current input method perfect? Well everyone is already familliar with it. Most products can easily use it (try a vertical KBD on a PDA ou ATM??)

    Maybe instead of having 3 longs lows, we should have 4 narrower lines of characters (not including #'s and control keys). While typing this article, I found out that my fingers were mostly moving horizontaly, not vertically. Having a "cube" of characters instead of a triangle would probably improve typing.

    I say: why re-invent the wheel? Just align it :)
  • by goldfndr ( 97724 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @10:23PM (#5786851) Homepage Journal
    Several years ago, when Microsoft came out with their "Natural Keyboard", my company bought one for evaluation. I arrived somewhat late and the other IT staff were discussing whether the split was in the right location. The letter splits were fine but Jr. High School typing class taught going continually diagonal - BGT5 on left and NHY6 on right - indicating that the 6 key should be on the right instead of the left.

    I went to the keyboard and tried some typing without looking. Then I tried the numeric keys. Hey, the placement of the 6 key actually did match how I typed, unlike how I was supposedly taught. I proudly shouted:

    I use my left hand for six!

    Needless to say, some people misunderstood what I'd said...

  • I occasionally get sore wrists or arms, and have to stop using my computer for a while.

    I notice that I've never had problems in both hands at the same time.

    So, what I want is a keyboard/pointer that can be reasonably operated with one hand. I expect to lose about half my typing speed, or more...that's OK. It needs to be good for both email/browsing type stuff AND coding!

    Is there anything reasonable like that?

  • Tomorrow and for the rest of the week, we'll be posting new reviews of strange, but interesting input devices

    When did /. get into the business of sex toy reviews?

  • from the article
    If you're typing on a standard QWERTY keyboard, and most of us are, then your keyboard design is over 100 years old (135 years old, to be exact). Can you imagine using a hard drive that was designed a decade ago? Or a processor from two centuries past?

    Can't argue with logic like that.
    The atoms that make up the air you're breathing were created billions of years ago. Can you imagine eating a burger that has been sitting in your car since last week?

  • Can you imagine using a hard drive that was designed a decade ago? Or a processor from two centuries past?

    I do use a processor that is more than two centuries old. It's called my brain.

    PS: QWERTY still works for me. Should I switch it because that would increase new keyboard sales?
  • by kahei ( 466208 ) on Wednesday April 23, 2003 @05:52AM (#5788178) Homepage
    I'm typing this on a Kinesis Contour [kinesis-ergo.com] keyboard and it's a wonderful thing. It abandons the traditional 'staggered grid' layout (which is fine, because none of my keyboards relies on swinging a thin metal arm that has to be kept clear of all the other thin metal arms) and puts the keys in a bowl shape around the fingers. It feels so much more comfortable and natural to type on -- and it also fixed the tendons in my right hand, which were freaking out from having to reach over to the backspace and 'programming' keys so much.

    It also has total programmability -- which means that finally I can do something with the scroll lock key (I use it to toggle Japanese/English input).

    Mine is from the mid 90's and is still working perfectly.

    N.B. I do not work for Kinesis. I merely plug their keyboard all the damn time because I like it.

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