Cell Phone Number Portability Finally A Reality? 259
graphicartist82 writes "MSNBC is running an article about the upcoming deadline for cell phone companies to let customers keep their numbers when switching companies. FCC Chairman Michael Powell has already extended the deadline once, but plans to stay with the Nov 24th, 2003 deadline. Companies like Verizon Wireless and T-Mobile have committed to meeting the deadline. I, for one, would love this. I've had the same cell phone number for years now -- it's where everybody knows how to get a hold of me. Other companies are now offering better services in my area where they weren't before. If I can keep my number and get a better service, I'm all for it! (Even if I have to pay a fee like the article suggests)."
Cell phone / home phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Is anyone aware of any regulations allowing you to transfer your home phone number to your cell phone if you were to disconnect your home phone number? I think I remember reading about rules stating you could keep your home phone number if you switched land carriers, and now you'll be able to keep your cell phone number when you switch cell carriers, but what about if you are ditching your land line altogether?
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
This could be one of those areas where those cellular companies that are tied to land line prov
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
On a somewhat related note, you _can_ transfer the home number to someone else. When we moved (2
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
Is anyone aware of any regulations allowing you to transfer your home phone number to your cell phone if you were to disconnect your home phone number?
I think there are a lot of people who would rather not really want to go through such a transfer. Sure, there are some who would find it convenient, but think about it - how many phone calls does your home phone number get at dinner time? Or if your area is like mine, all day long? My home phone got at least 30 calls during pre-dinner hours, all of them te
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:3, Informative)
You won't *always* have to buy a new phone. If you switch from Verizon to Sprint, or T-Mobile to Cingular (etc), there is no reason why the phone shouldn't work on the other network. In the US, most providers "subsidy lock" their phones, which
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
That's why you can take the SIM from your phone with a dead battery, put it into a friend's phone with lots of juice, and get back on the air with no issues.
Re:CDMA phones don't have SIMs (Score:2)
Re:Cell phone / home phone (Score:2)
In the CDMA world, there are no SIM cards on a phone (at least not yet, Qualcomm has proposed a R-UIM [cdmatech.com] card, which looks like a SIM card, and should be inter-operable with a SIM Card, but that's a story for another day).
CDMA providers have the ability to put a MSL (If I Remembe
Subsidy Locking (Score:2)
http://www.bridog.net/cellular/msl.txt
It's semi-evil, not true evil, but still enough to annoy me.
Why do we need it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Gee, maybe it's because your service sucks so badly, that people are willing to change *despite* the horrible inconvenience?
Re:Why do we need it? (Score:2)
Re:Why do we need it? (Score:2)
Re:Why do we need it? (Score:2)
What they fail to see is that if they are competitive, and they beleive their service is what they say it is, they will likely have a net loss of ZERO customers, beca
Re:Why do we need it? (Score:2)
Congratulations! (Score:2, Interesting)
I can't see I approve actually, just because of that - but maybe you don't have the possibility of deducing the carrier from the number as it is?
Re:Congratulations! (Score:2)
Hopefully it's just a matter of time before the biggest operator (Telenor) does the same
Re:Congratulations! (Score:2)
That depends on where you are and the ILEC, etc. In Michigan, cell #s were pulled out of a pool from Pontiac, Ann Arbor, and Detroit exchanges...I imagine you could figure it out, but there are so many carriers (Sprint PCS, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Nextel, and Cingular are the bigger ones I can think of off the top of my head) that I'm not at all certain you could keep track of it very easily.
Finally? (Score:2)
Anywhere in Europe, this is expected/demanded by the customers.
Re:Finally? (Score:2)
Re:Finally? (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a friend who is a project manager at a "Major Wireless Carrier" who said that the reason it's not here yet is that it's "really hard".
OK, every country in the entire friggin WORLD has this except for the US. The only reason we DON'T have it is that the carriers didn't want to make it easy to switch over. It can't be that hard if most of Europe has it, because y'all in Europe have more cell phones than we do. Japan's got number portability, and they've got assloads more phones than we
Re:Finally? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually - yes it can. It is technically complex and hard to impliment properly / reliably - It only seems easy because the problems have been solved.
There are some minor differences in the way that call routing works between GSM and the various USA systems. But these are generally small - they all sit on top of SS7 and getting calls through to the location is done by essentially the same Processes in the SS7 SCCP TCAP and MAP layers. If GSM can make it work then the USA will be able to too.
What is more of a problem is the lack of consistency in the way that number portability is implimented. SS7/SCCP/TCAP/MAP doesn't explicitly provide for portability - so it has to be "bolted on" and not every territory does it the same.
Sometimes you want to originate a call or send an SMS and you need to know which network hosts the handset. (Usually you want to do this because you're providing a service in a country (EG Hong Hong) where the carriers are always squabbling and won't neccesarily route your call through to the right network)
Anyway, some territories (eg HongKong) have implimented number portability by means of a centralised common database - and if you provide a service and have multiple trunks into each network (as we do) then you have to negoiate access to that Database and treat it as a whole extra layer before you even start connecting to the network proper. Even then there can be messy differences between territories in the detail of how these databases work.
Other places (EG the UK) do it completely different. Here there is an extra Database associated with every HLR ( Home Location Register - one of the key Databases involved with routing calls to mobiles). When a number is ported, the GTTS (Global Title Translation Service - converts phone numbers into the point codes which underly the SS7 network) in the originating network SCCP still returns the point code of the original operator's HLR - practically speaking it has to or the routing tables would become impossibly large. When that HLR receives a "sendRoutingInfo" message it first checks in its portability database and if the number has been ported elsewhere, then it forwards the message to the new HLR - which will query the current VLR and provide the routing info. This has the advantage that it is transparent to everyone else on the SS7 network , but has the disadvantage that if you actually want to know which network you're paying to receive the call - it's harder to find out. The other disadvantage of this system is the admin is more awkward. Potentially you could be relying on three different companies to make your network change work. All the UK phone companies are a bit of a admin. shambles even at the best of times.
We're busy designing and implimenting various SMS configured voice conferencing services - and this single issue is more complex than just about all the rest put together.
What will be interesting will be to see how the USA has decided to solve the problem. It will face essentially the same choices as countries with GSM - and the same tradeoffs.
Re:Finally? (Score:2)
Anywhere in Europe, this is expected/demanded by the customers.
No please, offend. Non-USians have no idea how friggin nefarious the FCC and telecoms are in the states.
I know people who think cells in the States are awesome, then they see my useless-in-the-States handy sitting on the counter and ask me about. They can't believe how much cheaper and featureful it is than shitty old Verizon service
Re:Finally? (Score:2)
Why would you want a fee for something that might give you more customers?
Of course, if you are one of the operators with lousy service, you'll *loose* customers. =)
Won't happen (Score:2)
I want it so that when you sign up to a company, you can keep the phone, even if you change services - the phone number can be changed, I don't care. But other people's milage my vary...
Re:Won't happen (Score:2)
Also, what are the penalties that the FCC will enforce? Maybe they'll start taki
Changing cell carriers (Score:5, Interesting)
If a carrier doesn't live up to their boasts, we should be able to drop a bad contract - even the big 3yr ones - without a surcharge, and keep our number while moving onto a (hopefully) better provider.
I don't see this happening though... I've never heard of anyone successfully cancelling a contract based on the carrier not meeting their promises.
Re:Changing cell carriers (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Changing cell carriers (Score:2)
Raise a big stink. I signed up for Sprint a couple of years back, because they claimed that they had my city covered. I had to pay an upfront fee for the phone and contract. After having the phone for a week, I decided that the coverage sucked, but when I went to return it, they wanted to keep like $100 worth of my signup fees, and charge me for my week's usage. I told them to go fuck off, and
Re:Changing cell carriers (Score:2)
Of course, everyone else's cells work fine, I just had to buy from the one company that doesn't give a crap about the area and doesn't share towers.
Of course, since I'm too lazy to change my phone number and tell everyone a new number who needs to know it, I stay
Not yet??? (Score:3, Interesting)
MNP has been available for quite some time now over here.
We sure had our load of problems with it, mostly due the vast number of people changing. The operaters just couldn't keep up.
There is just one problem. Without MNP you allways knew that somebode with a number with the same "network code" as yous was cheap to call. Now you might be calling another network without knowing it (and therefore paying more).
The operators had to set up a system to let a caller know (with a beep) that he is using another network. (This was demendad by consumer organisations...)
But in any case, it seems to work fine now.
Since all mobile operators of more or les the same service, most transfers were purely based on "Price".
There has been a movent from the more expensive one to the cheaper one, but the net result is apparently insignificant compared to the number new customers (not coming in via MNP)
Where do you live? (Score:2)
Re:Where do you live? (Score:3, Informative)
Not true. My plan, with t-mobile, allows me to call any other t-mobile caller at any time for free. Phoning other carriers will consume my monthly minutes if used during the week. Thus, with plans like these it's important to know which network you are dialling.
Re:Not yet??? (Score:2)
Why a fee? (Score:2, Insightful)
Free at last! (Score:5, Insightful)
Feel like you are getting terrible service? Call customer support and say "I am very unhappy with my service. Can you fix it? No? Ok, I will switch carriers tomorrow. So will my entire family and anyone I know that I can pursuade." That is the benefit.
I fully expect to see more competitive pricing plans because the entry/exit barrier for carriers have gone down. Of course I also expect to see stiffer penalties in ending contracts early to offset this.
Not so easy (Score:2)
The UK implemented this a few years ago (Score:3, Insightful)
New thing? (Score:2, Informative)
I just switched my work phone from Wind to Vodaphone iwthout any problem. You buy a new SIM and ask for number portability. They give you a "parking numeber" to use your new phone and, about 15 days after, your old numer is transferred on the new company.
The interesting thing is that phone company offers you everything to keep your old nu
Great but... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've had my current number since I first bought a mobile phone, back in 1997. For the past 6 years I've changed/upgraded phones 2 times, and used 3 different service providers.
All these companies, and no doubt countless others, keep the number in their records, share it, sell it, you name it.
The amount of spam I get on the mobile is nothing compared to email spam (1:5000?) but it's much more disruptive, because email spam doesn't make my trousers vibrate. The problem is when the price of bulk SMS goes down, a probable thing eventually, enough to make spam a real problem in mobiles.
It would be far more interesting if network operators let you change the number often, rather than keep it for long periods. That, or letting you have 2 or more numbers, so you give 1 to your family, 1 to your business contacts, and another to give away in on/offline forms, etc (you can do this already if you pay for re-direction numbers, but I'd rather have it as a network service).
Re:Great but... (Score:2)
However, for those of us who do live in the US, I don't think this would hurt in terms of spam. Firstly, I'm pretty sure it's illegal for them to spam you on your phone since you have to pay for it. Secondly, with the national do-not-call list looking like it will go through, now you would only have to put one number on that list and not have to repeat the process every time you switch numbers.
Portability = Higher prices (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Mobile phone companies usually offer new phones for less than they pay for the terminals -- no problem, as they know that you wont like to lose your phone number, and therefore they will get a lot of money from you.
2) If you are able to switch easily to a competitor because you wont lose your number, that means that companies will no longer offer cheap terminals.
At least, this is what happened in Spain. A couple of years ago, new terminals were quite cheap. When portability arrived, prices rocketed.
Re:Portability = Higher prices (Score:2)
Phone prices in the US aren't cheap now. They appear to be cheap if you sign a long contract, but if you're just looking for a handset they're expensive.
I don't see why this would change with number portability, since the cheapness of the handset relates to the contract length. Breaking the contract costs money (often several hundred dollars), and even then the handset may not be usable on the network you want to switch to.
Higher entry prices = lower overall prices (Score:2)
Expect that nokia which you got for free to cost you 100 dollars now. If you figure the phone company is gouging you to the tune of 10 dollars per month due to effectively creating a monopoly pricing market, over the two-year upgrade cycle you have lost 140 dollars on the deal. If you upgrade every 3
Re:Portability = Higher prices (Score:2)
Re:Portability = Higher prices (Score:2)
There are two factors which may mitigate this effect in the US:
In Holland (Score:2)
You think they're going to lie down and take this? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You think they're going to lie down and take th (Score:2)
ignorance is bliss (Score:2, Insightful)
How ignorant can they possibly be? It just means that competition within cell phone companies will be growing, and prices and deals on cell phones/air time will be drastically decreasing because of this. It's only helping to create perfect competi
Get ready to pay for this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Get ready to pay for this... (Score:2)
I'm not saying it won't cost anything on their part, but they'll probably charge, say, $1 per line per month, which works out to over a billion dollars a year in fees in the US, and it's not going to cost that much.
Actually... (Score:2)
Swings and roundabouts (Score:2, Interesting)
That said, they do like to get their claws into you other ways. I have a phone with Orange and I'm out of luck if I want to use anyone elses SIM card in it (ignoring the backstreet hackers who will fix it for me) as they lock it to
Why are they objecting this rule? (Score:2, Insightful)
If a provider lives up to its promises and offers decent services, the clients are unlikely to change providers. Only those who know they have bad services would want to object. I say this rule is precisely what we need to make the providers do something to improve on their services.
Re:Why are they objecting this rule? (Score:2)
"Providers also said the cost for revamping their networks could run as high as $1 billion in the first year alone."
So this isn't just a policy or "rule" issue... there's one thousand millions reasons in the first year alone why they would object.
Re:Why are they objecting this rule? (Score:2)
So this isn't just a policy or "rule" issue... there's one thousand millions reasons in the first year alone why they would object.
I wonder how that compares to the amount they've spent lobbying against this for the past 5 or so years.
The big carriers are on schedule (Score:2, Interesting)
I work for a company that sells billing and number management software to most of the big cellphone carriers. At this point, the upgrades necessary to support transfering phone numbers from company to company are either in production already or in very late stages of testing.
In most older systems, the carriers had boxes dedicated to keep a DB with every single phone number they really had access to. Changing this system to support transferring phone numbers between companies was neither cheap nor easy.
actually this sucks more than it brings advantages (Score:2, Insightful)
Cool (Score:2, Informative)
Mark
Great! (Score:3, Funny)
Isn't that nifty?
Number/Phone distinction (Score:3, Informative)
Anybody can make the actual cell phone but nearly everyone uses a Nokia. Price varies inversely proportional to the size but phones can be had for around $50 - $100. Buying the phone requires no contract, no ID, no commitment, no hassle, and most of all no forms. Just beg, borrow or steal your way into a phone.
Once you have the actual phone, it needs a "sim card" to function properly. This is basically just the gold-plated chip you see embedded in smart cards - but it's just the chip. This is the phone's identity - a phone number is associated with the sim card, and it can also store your phone number list and other small tidbits of information. These are usually under $10. They key point is the sim card is made to be user-replaceable. Once again, no activation, contract, or commitment required.
Sim card goes into back of phone, and all you need are some prepaid cards. There are really only 2 service providers, so you just have to buy a corresponding prepaid card (sold literally on and in between every street corner) from a reseller. When you type the 16-digit code from the back of the prepaid card into your phone, it authenticates and then stores the value onto your sim card.
The system is great because it's completely anonymous, there are no service fees, and most of all, changing phones is as easy as popping the sim card out of the back and into the new phone. Changing providers requires the purchase of a new sim card (= new phone number) but the competition is so stiff between the two that rates and coverage are virtually identical.
The major drawback to the system is that since the phone number can be replaced so easily and cheaply (simply buy a new sim card), theft is a major problem. The phones are all GSM phones which is some dumb acronym, but the Filipinos jokingly equate GSM with "Galing sa Magnanakaw" or "coming from a thief," since practically any phone on sale outside of a mall is stolen.
Sprint won't like this (Score:3, Interesting)
Were I allowed to keep my phone number, I would have swithced long ago to Verizon's service plans. Considering now Verizon is offering all the things that only Sprint had awhile ago (free long distance, for one) for the same price, I'd definitely switch.
--trb
Re:Sprint won't like this (Score:2)
I know of lots of people moving from other carriers to Sprint (including myself soon from at&t), but no one moving away from them. I think it's mostly related to the network quality in that specific area.
Ian
Already a reality in the UK (Score:2, Informative)
My company changed 300 cell phones from one provider to another - keeping the old numbers - worked just great.
Also to do this on your personal number cost around UKP20 =US$30 or so.
Some information Here [smalltalk.co.uk] and Here [oftel.gov.uk]
I know other European and Asia Pac countries have the same sort of agreements in place.
Loss of customers? (Score:2, Insightful)
Uhhh .... where does this 30 percent switch to? Other cell phone companies. If they merely switch providers, that means that the industry isn't losing any customers. If people completely stop using cell phones, then the industry loses customers. Also, if the can
one prefix for all cell phones, please (Score:2)
The transition wasn't that difficult for people to adjust to. There was a really simple rule to follow for anyone's number. If it used to begin with 010, for example, the new number would be 090-1-[rest of number].
The benefit to this is that in Japan, it's *very* easy for people to tell if a phone n
I've been waiting for this (Score:2)
If I knew that I could keep my number if I changed providers, I would feel much less reluctant about getting cell service at all.
The cell carriers are saying that this will cause them a lot of losses, but you have to realize that there is no net loss when someone changes carriers. The only ones who lo
Re:I've been waiting for this (Score:2, Informative)
Many land line providers offer a service called "group ringing" or "group hunting".
Basically, you give out a number for people to call. Calls to that number route to a list of phone numbers to reach you. You progam the list of numbers: your cell phone of the week, office phone, home phone, etc.
You answer the call on whatever phone you are closet to at the time. The person calling you doesn't notice anything differen
For E-mail to! (Score:2)
The local tel companies (Score:2)
Imagine this: IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
The phone companies basically run the FCC, they want the cellular carriers to go nuts with this kinda garbage, while they continue to glue their phone numbers to their customers. (and then force you to change numbers if you move down the street)
Welcome to 1999! (Score:2)
GSM allows you to buy a new phone like you might buy a new wristwatch, switch over the little GSM card - and you are up and running, no need to phone your provider, and no need to worry about whether a given phone will work with a given service provider. I was able to wander all over the world (except the US, of course) and receive calls on my cellphone.
this pro-consumer business has got to stop! (Score:2)
let's all cross our fingers that Powell Jr. is more successful with his negotiations with multi national powers, than his father has been this year.
personally, i'll believe it when i see it.
Number Portability A Bad Idea, pay for it anyway! (Score:2)
Number Portability A Bad Idea That You Get To Pay For Anyway
--
Number portability was always a bad idea. Everyone here should know of the concepts of IP addressing, routing tables, and DNS. DNS you take with you. You can change your ISP, and all of your IP addresses, but the names (DNS names) of hosts stay the same. IP addresses, such as those who Quest, AT&T, or WCOM might have provided to you, are non portable. You can't take them with you if you leave the provider providing the addresses (unles
T-Mobile - Sprint (Score:2)
So, from what yall know, will I at that date (or hopefully sooner) be able to take my cell phone # with me if I switch? I may have to wait till Nov to switch
Why should I need a number at all? (Score:2)
One thing I'm having problems understanding is Why should I even need a number visible on my phone at all? A phone number is an address, not a name, and that's why everyone's having these problems.
Labelling people with numbers is such a machine-centric view of the world, and with today's technology it shouldn't be necessary. The only reason it's still done is because legacy phone companies use legacy technology and their customers don't know enough about what's possible to demand better.
Realistica
US Finaly catching up? (Score:2)
Re:I can confirm this (Score:2)
Re:I can confirm this (Score:2)
Slashdot Slippery Slope Alert (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot Slippery Slope Alert (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot Slippery Slope Alert (Score:2)
Re:National ID (Score:2)
UK phone number portability (Score:5, Interesting)
In most cases, changing provider is as easy as falling off a log. When I changed my provider last year (to Virgin Mobile) all I had to do was buy the new SIM card, pop it into my existing handset, and call Virgin to set up my account and give them the details of my existing number. They gave me a changeover date, until which time I used my old SIM card (so people could still reach my on the number that I had given out to them). Three days later I was using my new SIM card with my "old" number. It really is that simple.
Number portability is so damn easy and obvious, I can't see any reason not to use it (unless you really want a new number so that your ex-whatever stops hassling you). Conspiracy theorists need to chill on this one too - after all, you can always get a new number if you want to but, like I said, why would you want to put yourself through that much inconvenience? Do you really want to have to call up all your friends, family and colleagues to give them all your new number?
Re:UK phone number portability (Score:2)
It doesn't stop them advertising it as a feature now though!
Re:UK phone number portability (Score:2)
My experience is limited to Orange/Vodaphone, YMMV
Sweden to. (Score:2)
But it didn't just happen by itself or some "invisible hand". The telcos with large market share liked the lock-in effect of not being able to keep your old number when switching providers. Competitors (one of them Orange btw.) and customers hated it.
The government finally settled the matter in the name of free competition.
It seems to have lowered prices somewhat too.
And it's nice to be able to just take your number and leave if your provider is being an ass.
F
What is a SIM? (Score:2)
To the best of my knowledge, the only removable things on my phone are they battery and the faceplate. If I want to change carriers, don't you have to buy a new phone at the same time?
And, I'm being semi-serious here. Explain to me how it works over there. Then, someone explain to me why we're so f*ck'd up here?
Re:What is a SIM? (Score:2)
Without the card the phone is about as much a use to you as a bicycle is to a dog (not counting stupid pet tricks).
But the SIM card is not limited to storing your account information, on many Nokia phones I've heard of/tried/owned, SMS messages are stored on the card along with my phonebook.
Just about the only thing my Nokia 3310 (ugly old thing) stores by itse
Re:UIN (Score:2)
Re:What about .ca? (Score:2)
Re:I predict... (Score:2)
Kyocera phones have shitty reception. The Samsung ones seem ok, but just give me my damn Motorola!!!!
Are you on crack? (Score:2)
Where do you think Sun first got the name for their DNS replacement from? Hint: its acronym used to be "yp"
Re:MNP in Australia (Score:2)
I've ported twice and the first time it took a month with both Vodafone and Telstra fighting over the number. One SIM would drop out and the other would take over then the next day that SIM would drop out and then the first would be active again. Telstra Blamed Vodafone and Vodafone Blamed Telstra. Welcome to hell can I take your order please ?
Re:Norway has had it since 2001 (Score:2)
=)