Using WiFi to Bridge the Digital Divide 338
andori writes "CNN is running a story about how WiFi is enabling low-income residents Internet access. The project is set at a public housing development in Boston, Massachusetts. Residents buy the WiFi NIC, and the access if free. It is nice to see people making an effort to expand the reach of the Internet to a broader audience."
FP! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:FP! (Score:4, Insightful)
Its more convenient than dial-up for people who don't have a phone.
Who has a PC but no phone? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have no (home) phone. (Score:3, Informative)
The lack of a phone does not impede my ability to setup a wireless router. :)
Re:FP! (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyhow, it seemed that free dialup failed because it was a) too slow, and b) had way too many ads. I suspect this will be more successful, as these aren't such a problem.
Re: poor people not having computers. Often there are families who recognize that they should hop onto the technology bandwagon, for themselves or for the sake of their children. What prevents many of them from investing in technology is the monthly fee of a net connection, not so much the initial cost of the computer.
Unfortunately, these poor people will probably pay the windows tax since they don't have the kind of computer experience and education to use linux, which would ironically be much more enabling to them.
----
e+ ----><---- e-
Fatal Attraction
Re:FP! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:FP! (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it failed more because the Internet advertising market plummeted--drastically. I used a Frisp and I couldn't keep the company from going under. They were the first to bust when the dot com world did.
Re:FP! (Score:2)
Since people still have to by the 802.11b card (lets say $100), I find it hard to believe that they are too poor to afford $5/mo. dial-up internet access.
I think people would be better off if a company gave extra discounts on dial-up service to families that showed documentation to prove their low-income status. That gets rid of the problem of free-loaders, and does more than this will.
Re:FP! (Score:2)
Here is How (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:FP! (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux, BSD and GNU are virtual Godsends to the poor. Third world countries aren't the only ones who can benefit in this manner. The poor everywhere are poor, and having lived in third world countries, in almost pure hunter gatherer conditions, I must say from my own experience that the poor in many of these places are considerably better off than the residents of public housing in rich countries.
"Stone Age" living is still independant living, where one can at least tend to one's own wants and needs in some manner.
The citified poor have been reduced to a state of utter dependency where even their God given abilites to fare for themselves are, for the most part, denied.
Can the poor with a $10 dollar used 486 benefit from broadband. Damned effin' straight they can.
KFG
Re:FP! (Score:2)
Show me one poor person running Linux, and I'll show you ten running a pirated copy of Windows. Only in America do the poor have $200 shoes, $100 sweatshirts and a broadband connection.
What happens to the people who aren't "tending to their own wants and needs" in the third world? They die. End of story.
What happens to people in America who don't tend to their own wants and needs? Somebody rolls out broadband to their subsidized housing project.
I used to be so poor that I didn't have enough to eat. Tell you what. I sure as hell didn't want fancy computer gear. All I wanted was a big meal and a chance to never feel that way again.
Surfin porn on the state's dime isn't going to lead these people to independant living. If anything it's going to continue the cycle of compassionate oppression. Many of the poor are trapped in a culture of dependance. Perpetuating that culture by providing luxuries instead of motivation is only going to make the problem worse.
Re:FP! (Score:2)
Re:FP! (Score:2)
I think it's less a matter of where you live than how you were raised to live. For example, anyone with a few square feet of land (or a sunny window and a couple plastic buckets) can raise vegetables and herbs for almost no money. And making meals from scratch, even if you end up buying all the ingredients, is far more frugal and healthy than buying prepared foods or eating out all the time.
Re:FP! (Score:2)
What's more, if I can make a chair for $5, and enjoy making the chair, I fail to see the logic of endenturing myself to someone else doing something I hate so that I can purchase a chair for $50 that's wholely inferiour to the one I can make. And yet I'm in deep danger of being regarded as a "ne'er do well" if I so behave.
I must note, however, that it requires those few square feet of land or the sunny window.
In the forest these are free for the taking and building. In the city they must be aquired with money. If one has no money. .
KFG
Re:FP! (Score:2)
You are also falling into the trap of believing that the poor, necessarily, have limited computer experience.
My volunteer activities have disabused me of this notion. It is not necessarily the case.
Poor means without money. It does not mean without intelligence, skills or experience and I've had the pleasure of converse with many an engineer, physicist, university trained musician or poet who has, for one reason or another, fallen on hard times.
I have been there myself, which is one of the reasons I volunteer my serives, *even* when I myself am in a period of experiencing those hard times.
"We're all in this together kid." -Tuttle
KFG
Re:FP! (Score:2, Insightful)
Generally, their experience is limited, otherwise no 'digital divide' would exist and projects like this wouldn't get off the ground.
I've had the pleasure of converse with many an engineer, physicist, university trained musician or poet
As have I, and plenty of them were completely clueless about all things computer related. Just having an education doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing when you sit down in front of a computer.
That's good! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:That's good! (Score:5, Interesting)
Tech: How can I help you?
Customer: I would like to cancel my account.
Tech: Ok... [procedure] And if I may ask, why are you leaving us?
Customer: Yeah, I got wireless internet access.
Tech: Oh? There's a wireless provider in your area?
Customer: Yep- my neighbor's offering it.
Tech: Goodness, we had no idea- what is the name of their business?
Customer: Oh he ain't no business, he doesnt even know I'm using it. Anyways, thanks, goodbye
We were all astonished that someone would steal like that and then tell the truth to one of the few organizations that would actually bother figuring out who was letting people leech like that unknowingly...
Re:That's good! (Score:2)
We were all astonished that someone would steal like that and then tell the truth to one of the few organizations that would actually bother figuring out who was letting people leech like that unknowingly...
"Well, Mr. Customer, we are sorry to see you go. Just in case you might change your mind, we will continue your email account for two weeks for free. If you decide to come back, your email will still be running normally."
Then watch your logs to see what IP connects to pick up his mail!
Or, "Well, we hate to see you go, but before you do, why don't you test your new connection with our special connection testing website, and make sure you really are getting a good bitrate..."
Then watch your logs for hits on your "special" website...
Re:That's good! (Score:3, Funny)
true (Score:4, Funny)
I agree. Pr0n is important.
I do that now.. (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem we run into most is still the cost of the hardware. For people who don't make alot of money, getting started can really take some sacrafice.
Re:I do that now.. (Score:3, Interesting)
A friend who works at a local coffee shop is interested in having someone come in and set up a wireless network. I have an AP at home, but its only for me. Any good references or documentation on how to set something like this up well for public use?
Re:I do that now.. (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.bawug.org/ [bawug.org] - the most technically adept wireless user group. Their mailing list is worth its weight in gold.
Good luck.
Re:I do that now.. (Score:4, Funny)
That doesn't sound too great, you know.
Re:I do that now.. (Score:2)
Re:I do that now.. (Score:2)
Free Porn! (Score:4, Funny)
keep the internet free (Score:5, Interesting)
This rules - another way we can keep information free to all, especially to people who can use it to improve their lives. Someday broadband will be a reliable public utility.
Just Great! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Just Great! (Score:2)
Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wow! (Score:4, Insightful)
Wireless Anarchy (Score:5, Insightful)
Anonymity not accountability (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Anonymity not accountability (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's one of the things wrong with current society -- the ability to anonymously "tip".
I Googled on "know your accuser" and came up with the following [arabmedia.com] , which states:
The problem is we have draconian laws for activities that are not morally wrong. Selling drugs is exchanging goods (for which there is a demand) for payment. Prostitution is exchanging a service (for which there is a demand) for payment. Laws should only prevent activities which have a victim, like murder, rape, or theft.
Drug dealers are only armed because we have laws against dealing drugs. Your local alcohol dealers aren't armed these days, are they? (Well, I'd imagine they are to prevent robberies but they don't go shooting each other over turf -- any more; they did back when alcohol was illegal.)
This is turning into a rant, but the main problem is we create laws that turn a victimless activity into a felony, and then we have to set up anonymous tip lines in order to prevent (legitimate, imho) payback. It turns the world into a police state. (PATRIOT goes a lot farther though...)
Back on topic: I think this is a great development and if Intel successfully puts wireless capabilities in every chip they sell I think we'll see a huge increase in community-based, free services. Internet link, even telephone and cable could be "free" (although there are issues with paying for the content, especially if ads are stripped).
Re:Anonymity not accountability (Score:2)
In all criminal cases, the accuser is the prosecutor, who presents evidence against the accused, which may include testimony from victims. Victims at best are witnesses. The judicial process makes it easy to face the accuser (prosecutor) and all the evidence against you. Including anonymous tips. What do you think happens to those tips anyway? They are followed up by the police, again an instrument of society, and if you are charged, it will most likely be with better evidence than just the word of an anonymous person. Even then, you are allowed extensive opportunities to defend yourself in a court of law.
Since you think it is unfair that you are not allowed to do things which benefit you at cost to all of society, and are also not furnished with the names of the people who turn you in (for payback purposes), I am inclined to think you belong in prison. However, you are probably much too cowardly to commit any crimes and merely enjoy furtively posting to slashdot in a rant against the rule of law.
Re:Wireless Anarchy (Score:3, Interesting)
The internet provides no accountability in any case. The caught number of hackers is dwarfed by the uncaught. Providing poor people with anonymous internet access is probably safer than providing it to the idle rich (college students).
If you're insecure, you can't rely on every ISP in the world to be helpful or vigilant. Not because they shouldn't be, but because they are not.
When I was down and out... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:When I was down and out... (Score:3, Insightful)
a resident poll found that virtually all participants used the computers to read news, learn about health and housing, or to shop online.
I love welfare type systems, keep 'em poor and keep 'em consuming, that way they won't bother me!
Re:When I was down and out... (Score:5, Insightful)
- Take classes, although he can't afford those official classes and the local community college doesn't offer anything like this
- Buy a book at the local bookstore for full price ($$$).
- Buy the book online at a nice (20%) discount ($$)
Johnny has just bettered himself[1] and saved a bit of money in the process. Isn't that what the internet is all about?If someone is poor because they are fiscally irresponsable, do you think the Internet is going to leave them worse off than they were before?
[1] Technically he isn't a better person until he actually sits down and learns the skills, but that is beside the point.
Re:When I was down and out... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:When I was down and out... (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess a lot of it is frame of mind. There's been a couple of years in my life where my SSI statement says that I've made less than 10k or so, but I've never really considered myself poor. I guess because I always knew somehow that I would get out of it.
Also, I have never known someone to be poor because they were fiscally irresponsible. Broke maybe, but not poor.
Re:When I was down and out... (Score:3, Funny)
Cheers!
Re:When I was down and out... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:When I was down and out... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, what's cheaper: maintaining a staffed piece of real estate containing a PC (i.e., a library), or just dropping an antenna on top of a housing project?
Now that I think about it, providing welfare recipients with broadband access may well be the most cost-effective way of getting them the information they need most: where they can get a job, where they can get housing outside the public housing system, what's going on at their kids' schools, medical information, local news, etc., etc. (Some Harvard students set up a program to do online tutoring [harvard.edu] for Boston high school students; by all accounts, it seems to work pretty well.)
If a welfare recipient had to have one "luxury" appliance, a broadband-equipped PC seems like a reasonable choice. It would be far more justified than any other similarly priced item I can think of.
By contrast, the amount of money spent on Boston's public access cable programming [bnntv.org] is massive, and is entirely wasted.
Not to be a grouch... (Score:4, Insightful)
There's always a few people who really take an affinity to tech, and will run with it, and maybe start a career, but they'd probably do it without WiFi.
Anyways, my point is the money could probably be used better somewhere else, either in the USA or elsewhere in the world, like the countless refugee camps throughout Asia and Africa, where people have really fucked-up lives.
Re:Not to be a grouch... (Score:2, Insightful)
"Anyways, my point is the money could probably be used better somewhere else, either in the USA or elsewhere in the world, like the countless refugee camps throughout Asia and Africa, where people have really fucked-up lives. "
Ohm yeah, the pittance involved in this project will REALLY help the all those poor soids in Asia and Africa.
Why, evenly distributed, we could probably send a single Meal, Ready to Eat pouch to every single one of those refugees. Once. Of course, this doesn't include the actual costs of shipping the MREs to the camps.
Look, you're a bleeding heart doofus with no idea whatsoever about the costs involved in this project and the expenses involved in aiding all those refugees.
The WiFi project wouldn't cover the cost of any useful aid prokect in Asia or Africa.
And as for the poor in America, this money IS being used to help the poor. Just because you are a meatsack who is only interested in MP3s, pr0n and IM, don't assume that you are representative of the people this project is helping.
I speak from experience. I've been involved in some projects like this, and I can tell you that a poor family that has access to the Internet does not use it for MP3 and pr0n. The kids use it for schoolwork, the parents use it for everything from education to downloading supermarket coupons. Seniors, particularly the housebound, use the net as a way to keep in touch with friends and family, along with education and entertainment. As an antidote to lonliness, it's pretty damn good.
This is a good thing! I really hope that Boston will expand this to the rest of the public housing infrastructure.
Re:Not to be a grouch... (Score:2)
btw, if you want to do something about the rest of the world where people have really fucked-up lives read eveything you can about Fred Cuny ( the good and the bad, he was murdered in Chechnya IIRC ) and use your tech skills to make a difference. WiFi for emergency comm networks in disaster areas anyone?
Re:Not to be a grouch...Please! (Score:5, Insightful)
What a pathetically closed-minded response. Maybe that's what you use it for, but there are so many, uncountable numbers, that need access for education and research, and they really don't have time for games like you obviously do.
As someone who has worked in public schools for several years now, I can tell you, without a doubt, that it is the poorer kids who stay after school, or show up first thing in the morning, just so they can have access to a computer. The rich kids get to go home and hang out in their cushy bedrooms, waiting for Mom to yell 'Dinner's ready.'
School gets out around 1:30/2:00 for most US secondary schools, but I maintain a policy that as long as kids are willing to stay and work, I will stay and keep the lab open. I am often there until 4:00 or 5:00 each and every day, and these kids are working their butts off, occasionally emailing friends, but they are certainly not wasting their time downloading music or surfing for porn. I find it quite heartbreaking that they have to stay after, day after day, just to type a paper, or finish a presentation, or work on their personal web project, when others have access willy-nilly and get to do what they please.
And what about the elderly? I pity you when you age, because you will really have no clue. They now have access to health information and subscription plans. Are you aware how many low-income elderly (and most of them are) pay close to 1000 per month in prescription just to stay alive? Do you care? How about getting sick, being told you have prostrate cancer? They can now log on and share their fears with dozens of others. Retired military - groups and messages everywhere, a time to reminisce and swap stories.
Don't ever belittle technology, especially here, and say it is just for music and porn, and most especially don't ever say that is all the poor will do with it.
Re:Not to be a grouch... (Score:2)
Music-sharing, IM, and porn are all ways to better someone's life. (if you think porn isn't, recall that it has the same effect as Viagra, which is often covered by health insurance)
Anyways, my point is the money could probably be used better somewhere else
Perhaps, but the fact is that it won't be used somewhere else, because people are unwilling or unable to apply that money elsewhere. Given that, it's nice that it can be used here.
Hey! Great Idea (Score:2, Funny)
Rural Poor? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Rural Poor? (Score:2)
How did we let this happen? (Score:3, Interesting)
And I thought that the 1996 telecommunications act renewed our government's support for this concept. Didn't they include internet service in the 1996 plan?!!
I live in one of the more desirable suburbs of my city. But I am screwed as far as having any access to highspeed internet service. Even as a paying customer!
WHY AREN'T WE ENFORCING THE LAWS WE HAVE ALREADY TO FIX THIS SITUATION?!!!
Re:How did we let this happen? (Score:2)
Perhaps these people should take into account the relatively higher cost or limited availability of internet access when they choose to live in a much cheaper area.
Perhaps you should have done as I did and looked into the availability of high speed access before buying your house/renting your apartment. Back in 1998, high-speed internet access was available in exactly one suburb of Boston: Cambridge. I chose to live in Somerville for that year and forego internet access, because the rent was much cheaper.
Now, internet access is available in almost all the suburbs, and usually via one or more cable companies plus a half-dozen DSL providers. But if I chose to live 50 miles out of Boston in Bumblefuck, then I'd probably have to live without access. Those are the choices we make.
Why do you think it's someone's responsibility to give you something, especially something you don't need to live, for free or at a discount? Why do you feel you are entitled to the fruits of my labor for your enjoyment?
Re:How did we let this happen? (Score:2)
: respective companies told us that it would be
: available "real soon now".
Well, don't let it happen again. Fool me once, yadda yadda yadda.
Free?? (Score:3, Insightful)
"The project, mostly paid for with a $200,000 grant from the Kellogg Foundation and supported by companies like Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft as well as public and nonprofit entities..."
So we have evil corporations, nonprofits, and public (funded by you and I) entities. The label "free access" sounds as if the bandwidth fairy visited Boston last week.
Nice to see (Score:3, Insightful)
Money from Nigeria? Way out of poverty (Score:5, Funny)
Appropriate use (Score:5, Interesting)
"Residents can buy wireless cards for their desktops or laptops. The cards, which can cost up to $100 retail, will be given away to the elderly and sold for $60 to others."
I'm not a low income household, but with a full-time student (wife) and kid to feed, it's sometimes hard for me to cough up money for extra hardware (and I'm not what most would consider to be a low income family). I would hope that these people have their own priorites straight before venturing into this. I also hope their welfare checks aren't buying them wireless NIC cards.
Re:Appropriate use (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm curious? Why exactly are online games and pr0n NOT a good use of something like this? File swapping ... well if they want to be safe from any potential copyright violations carried out on their network then I guess you could drop this BUT personally I wouldn't see the point of setting up a free network to "bridge the digital divide" if you are then going to retain a gap! Surely any defence of file sharing must be especially appropriate to low income households? I can only assume you would like to ban file sharing, I wouldn't!
Secondly, while I agree that they should have their priorities straight before they venture in, I don't see why they shouldn't spend their welfare check on a wireless NIC if they have them straight and can squeeze out the cash!
Re:Appropriate use (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes I have a conscience! What sort of a question is that? May I paraphrase your position as follows: "I believe that we should only allow the poor to do good and proper things while the rich can do whatever they like". If I donated the money for Internet access, I would be mighty p*ssed to discover that some holier than thou had decided that they should define internet access rather than supplying the technological service! If they want to monitor for illegal acts, fine. If they want to block certain websites, games, or programs then they are acting as censors and I would be very concerned about the usefulness of the service they then provide, as instead of bridging the digital divide they would simply be redefining it as "you can have this, but not this, why? because were giving it to you and we say so, be thankful and STFU".
What's wrong with playing quake? Is it not preferable to taking a weapon to school and killing your peers in real life? Same for pr0n (I am using quite facetious arguments I know, but we could spend weeks hammering out the rights and wrongs only to realise that we had simply expressed our own personal prejudices upon the audience, for example British Tabloid papers love to print pictures of topless women on Page3, does that mean they are pornographic? does that mean we censor the newspapers read by the vast majority of the paper reading public in the UK?) should we allow the poor (your word) to view pr0n on keep it from them and maybe have one more frustrated rapist on the loose? What about if some labourer comes in every day after being out for 12 hours and a hard days work and they just wants to make his world that little bit happier by looking at some naked bodies, is his use any less valid than the 40 year old housewife next door who wants to gossip? If so look for laws to outlaw pictures of naked bodies (good luck), don't try and use a position of monetary superiority to enforce your opinions because if you do you are really taking away from the residents and not supplying them as you will discourage anyone else from providing a solution or competition.
If someone suggested that MS, the Republican party or the local church were offering Free Net service, but only to their approved sites/services you would have no debate (well maybe you would, but I would have no problem ignoring you as a troll) but you would see this as entirely different, why?
I disagree (Score:3, Insightful)
Then perhaps my attitude will surprise you, because I don't agree. I don't think the poor should be denied porn, online games, or file swapping, nor should they be forced to download what you or others think should be "their priorities". I think they can figure out their priorities for themselves. I'm not saying they should be beyond the reach of the law, but I and many other people do all three of the mentioned legal activities and don't really see the moral difference per se between myself and someone who makes a smaller paycheck. How should we feel about the fact that Bill Gates has decided that we shouldn't be using our computers to play "untrusted" media? I don't think his billions entitle him to dictate what we should be doing.
I do understand that equipment and time are being donated to these folks, but I see the internet as an expressive medium. I think of dictating what they do with it as similar to building them a community theatrical stage and then telling them they ought to only perform plays that espouse George Bush senior's "family values".
I also understand that there may be some resource contention between those who are intended to benefit, and that hogging by some may be to the detriment of others. This should be addressed through resource allocation technology, and not through content monitoring or social engineering.
Re:Appropriate use (Score:2)
Re:Appropriate use (Score:2)
If everyone has access to the internet at all times this means you have access to everyone at all times. More people online means more customers. More people using and wanting new technology. And many other things that are good for the economy.
Now if you NEVER ever look at porn or swap files, download binaries, etc. Then I can understand why it would concern you if someone else was doing that, if you couldn't get the bandwidth you needed for your very important tasks. But if you do download porn or data then what you propose is to take away the freedom of the masses to benefit the few. And that has never made sense to me. Since I download porn I'd want everyone to have that same freedom. That is what this network is about, is it not?
just what they need (Score:4, Funny)
Re:just what they need (Score:2)
You also must not have spent too much time with poor people, or you wouldn't spewing as you do.
Most poor people in America are poor for a few reasons:
1. Bad decisions(pregnant, flunked school, etc)
2. Lazy(yes i will say it)
3. Just got off the boat(and if they have a solid family it will usually be just the first generation that is poor)
4. Incompetent(physical, pysch, etc)
5. Choice(my sister has little money, but that is because she choose a field in which she makes just 20K; or they simply don't mind being poor, it is not where their satisfaction comes)
My feeling is a very small % in the US(not true in other countries), are poor because they are brought down by the rich man.
My observations are taken from living and growing up in various regions of appalachia.
Of course being poor also needs to be defined more.
The internet as an educational medium. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sometimes it bothers me the way people talk about the internet. It takes just as much intelligence and discipline to learn from the internet as it does to learn from books and teachers. It's nice that they're giving these people internet access, but I'm under no illusion that this will help children develop in any significant way.
Re:The internet as an educational medium. (Score:5, Insightful)
The internet is not a free ticket, it will not raise your children any more skillfully than television, but it is an amazing resource for information gathering. If you don't think so, I urge you to write a note or make a tally mark every time you think of something you'd like to find more information about and you could potentially find it on the 'net. The same will be true of children, who have just as many thoughts in their head as you and I, and often more.
Re:The internet as an educational medium. (Score:3, Insightful)
You're implying that I could "educate" myself by reading things off of encyclopedic sites. Well, I disagree. I opened up a Western Civilization textbook last week (for the hell of it), and the internet just doesn't comapare.
Re:The internet as an educational medium. (Score:2)
On the other hand, the internet is superior to an encyclopedia set in that it is interactive, and it DOES end up covering some topics somewhat exhaustively, and in greater detail than an encyclopedia can provide. If you need more information on a topic, the internet can help you find an appropriate book on the subject, find out what books your local library has to offer (in the case of most libraries these days) and in general provide you additional leads. Also, many topics of conversation are covered by one or more mailing lists and/or bulletin boards, a feature which is not offered by any encyclopedia.
You can certainly educate yourself on many topics solely based on what you can find out on the internet, and its value along these lines is only growing.
Re:The internet as an educational medium. (Score:3, Interesting)
Really. I'm not making this shit up!
Sir Mix-a-Lot (Score:2)
Cisco to license Wi-Fi tech at no cost to partners (Score:3, Informative)
Wow... (Score:5, Interesting)
You can think I'm over-reacting, but you should just reread some of the messages that have been posted here. I think free, broadband access in the homes of people who can't afford it is just great.
I think the internet is one of the keys to providing better education and opportunity to those people born into such circumstance that opportunities are rare. Will some people abuse it? Sure...but so? Better they are sitting at home surfing for free porn then some of the other alternatives they could be doing with their lives.
There have been times in my life when money was tight. Because I haven't always had priviledge, does that mean I'm not responsible enough to have as broad a spectrum of rights and opportunities as others? Open your minds...
Craenor
Will it help? Yes (Score:3, Interesting)
Anything that gets more information into a poor kid's head sounds like a benefit to me. Even if you only look at improvement in helping a kid with his homework, that's a great benefit right there. I know my childhood would have been a lot different if I had such easy access to information (it wasn't really around until my late teens).
Digital Divide, eh? (Score:2, Interesting)
So long as this remains funded by private industry and charities, more power to them. It's the danger that this "digital divide" concept might be pushed into the social responsibility realm where the perception is that it should be funded with tax dollars. It makes me about as pissed as the moment I realized that some of the subsidized housing here in Atlanta was better than the apartment I was living in - it's not about necessity, it's become something completely different.
I feel obligated to quote Michael Powell, "I think there's a Mercedes divide. I'd like one, but I can't afford it."
OT: New wireless section icon (Score:2)
Wait a minute... (Score:2, Insightful)
These people are living in PUBLIC housing projects? Housing that you and I pay for with our tax dollars? I'm in a pretty nice income bracket, living in the middle of Dallas, but I can't get DSL because I'm too far from the CO. However, people we have to subsidize by giving them a place to live (among other subsidies) deserve (probably) high-bandwidth wireless Internet access?
Perhaps we should be more concerned with these people supporting themselves (for instance, paying for their own housing, food, power, etc.) rather than sitting around browsing the Internet.
I'm sure I'll get flamed, but this is only slightly less ridiculous than trying to get broadband internet into third-world countries...
Already a wide availability of public access (Score:2, Insightful)
"I find it quite heartbreaking that they have to stay after, day after day, just to type a paper, or finish a presentation, or work on their personal web project, when others have access willy-nilly and get to do what they please."
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That's heartbreaking? That student's have access to maybe $1,000 computers to use for free at school to check email, instant message, and do school work?
While I applaud the effort to bring technology use and understanding to others, I condemn the ludricrous belief, that giving someone a computer, internet access, etc, will allow him somehow make him technically proficient or better his life.
Perhaps we should give away free hammers? Then the poor could build their own houses. Or we could give away airplanes, and then the poor can all become airline pilots. The tools are worthless without understanding.
I can see this benefitting a small group of people however.
1)Poor families with an older child. The child likely has some technical instruction at school and can bring his knowledge of the computer home to benefit his parents.
2)Someone who has completed some vocational training and who can legimately justify the cost of computer equipment as a business expense to further their knowledge of office applications.
3)The home-bounds that due to injuries are unable to work, or unable to leave home, yet still had knowledge of how to operate a computer, or had someone to help them along. THis would enable them to interact with the outside world, keep up on current events.
And I'm glad to see that part of this includes the party having to buy equipment. We've all seen someone grab something for free (to them) that they couldn't use, just to have it. People who invest in something have some motivation to use it, benefit from it, and keep it working.
Still, the biggest drawback to a program that gives away technical this or that is always that the people targeted to benefit from it are untrained to use it.
I had a neighbor who's "cousin" reportedly would get him "good deals". He'd always come home with faxes and 10 year old useless computers and ask me if they were any good, or if he could do this or that on them. They were junk and useless to him. A skilled computer operator could have put them to some use, but it was useless to his needs, and he wouldn't have had any idea how to run the software, even if it had worked on the machine. If he had this offered to him, he would have signed up, bought himself a WiFi card, and then the thing would have sit there when it broke and he couldn't afford to fix it, and didn't know how. Then he'd also be out the $100 that he could have used for a new winter coat, or a decent suit for a job interview.
Plans like this are neat, interesting, and a great way to look for grants to let you play with tech. However, it's probably not the most efficient way to better the situation of people living at poverty levels.
When you consider that public libraries, schools, often community centers, provide free computer and internet access to the public, it is almost a vanity to assume that a new plan to give internet access to the poor, as long as they buy a computer, and wifi card.
And I agree with some other posters, that considering these other options already being available, that public internet access via a WiFi point and targetted towards the poor, might innappropriate use of tax dollars that might be spent on better programs. These funds could be put into more community computer classes at libraries. Funds could be used to provide more training for teachers at school, so that those teachers could provide more technical training.
And I am involved in technical training at a school in a "poor" neighborhood, so i have given this type of thing quite a bit of thought.
Another place that is doing this (Score:2)
"Closing 'digital divide'
Crispus Attucks gets $500K to link with community
By TED CZECH Dispatch/Sunday News
The Crispus Attucks Association says it's now one step closer to bridging the "digital divide" it says exists in York County.
Late last week, the association learned it will receive a $500,000 grant from the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development.
Crispus Attucks intends to use the money to build and maintain wireless Internet access for York County schools and other area organizations, a plan that dovetails with the association's mission to educate and provide opportunities
for jobs, said Christina Ginder, director of the association's technology solutions department.
"So many of our York County residents do not have Internet access for one reason or another -- it could be socioeconomics, or they don't understand computers," said Ginder.
"The majority of those people surround Crispus Attucks. We want to make sure those people have the same advantages of those who can afford it."
The new network, based at Crispus Attucks, also will serve residents who live beyond where fiber-optic cables have been installed, Ginder said.
She said through the network, Internet service will be faster than dial-up or cable modems, with a lower fee than commercial wireless Internet companies charge.
Area organizations interested in linking with the wireless network include several school districts, the York County Library System and Lincoln Intermediate Unit.
Obtaining the grant allows the association to purchase computer equipment and install transmission towers, Ginder said.
Phases: Designing the network -- determining how many and where the towers will go -- will begin when the entities that have expressed interest in the wireless network agree they would like to be a part of it.
"We just got the grant. We are going around and talking with them right now," said Ginder.
She said that in York City, a tower may be erected either on top of the Crispus Attucks building at 605 S. Duke St., or at the former Dallmeyer building at 540 S. George St., which the association has acquired.
Ginder said several school districts are interested in joining the network, although some may have contracts with other Internet services.
Online in July: She said the association expects to have all of the equipment needed by May, with testing beginning in June and the network running in July.
That's what Ginder calls phase one, which will be financed by the grant.
In phase two, the network will be expanded to the outlying areas of York County without Internet access.
The association hopes to hire someone with wireless experience who can solve network problems, Ginder said."
I especially like that last part -- "The association hopes to hire someone with wireless experience who can solve network problems."
GF.
It's called... (Score:2, Insightful)
cheap second-hand computers. And wi-fi adapters can be found for under $30.
Re:What? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What? (Score:4, Informative)
There are several programs that specialize in recycling PCs to those in need - one of which I administer in my neighborhood. When a local rent control building wanted to setup a hotspot, we supplied them with free computers. I don't think supply is that big of an issue, especially when a Pentium II will do the job. We're not talking gaming here - just a conduit to the possibilities of the Internet. Of course, they all run Linux ;)
Re:What? (Score:2)
A free computer with wireless is not a free ticket out of the projects by itself, but it can be an opportunity if it is done right. It looks like the wireless project in the article is more than just "lets give 'em a computer and a wifi card and let 'em do whatever" -- there is a community computer center with volunteers to show and teach the use of computers and the internet.
If the kids learn a little web design, programming, how to do research on the net, etc. that can only help them find a way out of poverty. Using a computer and the net will improve reading skills, writing skills (research can be done and a paper written at home), and even communications skills improved. Yes, there might be some pr0n downloading going on, but overall the good outweighs the bad, especially if they work on maintaining a sense of community in their project.
This community wifi program will not guarantee anyone that any of the kids will go to Harvard or Boston College, but done right, it sure helps in breaking the poverty cycle!
Ah yes, the usual debate... sheesh. (Score:5, Insightful)
So, if the people in the public housing have a WiFi NIC (and, presumably, a computer), why are they in public housing?
Ah yes... the usual debate. As in, why are they buying anything like this if they are poor?
Think about it this way - if you have kids, you just opened up a whole new set of possibilities for them by purchasing a used PC (at the pawnshow, used computer store, etc - used hardware is CHEAP unless you want top of the line.) That and Internet access now allows them to at least try and keep up with the other kids nationwide that have access to the Internet. Heck, even if it's not used for direct learning (IE, they are playing games or downloading music, etc., instead of reading text books line ;-) the act of becoming familiar with the way things work will allow them not to fall behind nearly as much. You might not think about it much, since you are at least somewhat computer and Internet savy (Hey, you are posting on /. - that could say either good or bad things about you ;-)
And as for adults using it... well, I personally use mine for more than just crusing porn and downloading music. In fact, I don't do much of either one o' those - instead, I use it as a learning tool of sorts (Got a C++ question? Google It. Got a medical question? Google it. Need to know what a phrase in a contract means? Google It.), and to run an online company (my game company). The latter wouldn't to apply to nearly as many people as the former - just about anything you want to know is there. And that's only ONE application of the Internet. It's a great enabler for people, and I think it's a wise investment on anyone's part to hook up - even if it means scraping together the cash for some really cheap hardware over the process of months.
NOT getting Internet access, IMHO, is the mistake.
Re:Another big brain government program (Score:2, Informative)
25%, 90%, Your careless attitude is part of the reason we still "ghettoize" our poor in this country. To hate and villify the poor for being poor is about as selfish and selfcentered as you can be.
To give them free wifi can only help. Think about all the municiple services that are available on-line these days. With out web access you are forced to wait on line for hours to get forms to even apply for services.
This public housing is an example of the new style that doesn't throw everyone up in a highrise, but Camfield Estates [camfieldestates.net] is different. This is the model of what public housing should be.
The Wi-Fi acccess is NOT a gov't project. It is all donated by companies and non-profits.
Broaden your awareness (Score:3, Interesting)
If you wish to buy, the second hand tech store three blocks from public housing in my city has PIII's lined up for $175, wiht monitor. For an extra *2* bucks they'll install Red Hat or Mandrake for you.
This isn't necessarily a good deal though, since the Walmart is selling new Linux systems for as little as 200 bucks. That's cheaper than a 19" TV.
Sure, *you* might think of PC's as being multithousand dollar items, but that's your bias. It isn't the case.
KFG
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Re:Is this any different? (Score:2)
I don't want anyone else on the Internet. It's full, that's right over capacity. Now leave me and my err The Internet alone . . .
Re:Nice (Score:2)
You ever hear of FOOD STAMPS and ariel TV??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Unlike Cable TV, I think it's pretty obvious that the Internet can be used as a tool to better oneself.