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CDMA 2000 1x Comes to India 196

Posted by michael from the next-superpower dept.
nilesh writes "Yesterday, Reliance Infocomm launched one of the largest CDMA networks in the world [Google news]. This wireless network will cover 90% of India's population on a backbone of 60,000 kms of optic fibre. They have dreams of providing an Internet-enabled Java-powered CDMA2000 1x phone to almost every Indian citizen for around tariffs as low as 40 paise per minute or 0.8 cents per minute. The Samsung/LG/Kyocera phones will be replete with applications ranging from internet banking to video on demand and online gaming. Now all we need is Quake for Java and we'll have college kids playing deathmatches with each other in classroom at 144kbps. The next game revolution is in sight."
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CDMA 2000 1x Comes to India More

CDMA 2000 1x Comes to India

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  • Possible? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ancukiewiczd ( 614805 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @03:05PM (#4977568)
    "for around tariffs as low as 40 paise per minute or 0.8 cents per minute. " Somehow, I doubt such a plan would succeed. Is such a low tariff even possible, much less for this kind of expensive service?

    • Re:Possible? (Score:4, Informative)

      by atlantis_tin ( 552099 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @04:23PM (#4977914)

      Somehow, I doubt such a plan would succeed. Is such a low tariff even possible, much less for this kind of expensive service?

      Reliance is a fairly old but very successful company. I have been following news about them for several years and have never seen them do anything that is both big and naïve. While I cannot say that people come first for them, surely business and money do.

      These are at least some of the reasons why we should expect costs of telecom services to be low in India:

      Technology - The infrastructure was built practically from scratch in the last 6-7 years. Even regular phone service coverage was around 4-5%. As opposed to the US, which has been building its infrastructure over much a longer period - laying copper and then fiber. India is starting with fiber for which the cost-per-bit is very low. IIRC, Reliance built its fiber optic network in the last 3-4 years.

      Labor costs - One of the biggest costs in building infrastructure is labor. But labor is very cheap in India. I expect labor wages to be around USD30 per month.

      Competition - There is a lot of competition, the other major players are Bharati, TATA, and the government (yes, the government is in this too). So, including Reliance that makes it at least four major competitors. There are some small companies (BPL, Birla, Satyam, etc. - don't know what happened to Worldtel) too but so far they have not had any major impact.

      And all this is the exact opposite of what you see in the US. So...

    • Sure, if they jack up the prices in more developed nations. The pharmaceutical companies do it all the time.
    • Yes. Leap Wireless, also known as Cricket Communications offers unlimited local calling on their CDMA 2000 1XRTT network (tho almost all phones on said network are CDMA 2G) for US$32.99 a month, taxes and features such as insurance, caller ID, voicemail, and SMS bring my bill to US$52.99 a month, every month--and that's without a contract.

      Once you get rid of the expensive fluff known as a Customer Care department that would otherwise take calls from angry customers bitching about being overcharged on their bills and make other cost-cutting measures, the cell phone dollar can be indeed stretched very far.
    • Welcome to India. 40 paisa per minute (1.20 per 3 mins) is what will convince me to look at cell phones as a viable alternative to my fixed phone. You forget that an average middle class indian earns around 300 USD per month. The food, labor, electricity and stuff in dollar terms are CHEAP. So apart from an initial investment in infrastructure, Reliance operating cost with be a pittance in US terms.

      Cell phones made their real entry into india about 3 years back and look at the rates now [airtelworld.com] (airtel is one of the biggest cell phone operators now) remember that about 50 rupees = 1 USD. It is bound to go down further.

      Reliance has it right (reliance is a HUGE company by indian terms and is equivalent of GE, Shell, MS put together). More over they offer WLL (wireless in local loop) [iec.org] for cell phone access within cities and more for roaming. So this cost is perfectly reasonable.
    • In India, the carriers do not subsidize the
      cost of the cell phone. Each subscriber
      has to buy his own phone... at full price.

      If you buy a cell-phone service from Verizon,
      verizon spends $200.00 on you the day you
      sign up... for the cost of the phone.

      That is partly why the service is more expensive in the US.

      Magnus.
    • Fixed line rates are 40paise(0.8 cents) per minute, and inspite of such low rates you have telcos making large profits in fixed line area. Now in GSM the rates are higher (4-5 cents/min). The reason is liscensing fee is very high, on the other hand for WLL (CDMA) the liscencing fee is same as fixed line. So apart from infrastucture costs no issue here. Big volumes = Profit
    • I think this is an excellent idea. Who cares about TB, poverty, high infant mortality, and potential nuclear war with your neighbours if you can play cheap networked Quake on your phone?

      It is all very well to say that there is such a large population that a tariff like this might be feasible. But outside the major cities, would they want it, or even care about it?

      Priorities, people.

  • I just want a cell phone network where frequent call drops, long wait times, and low signal strength are common.

    I live 15 miles from the city center of Minneapolis. I get a call dropped between 5 and 10 mins every day (granted I use it during peak times) but I don't see why this should happen.

    While I believe what India is doing is a Good Thing, I just want a Good Thing to happen here in the US for cell phone service.

    I use the cell phone for very little other than the "free" LD after 9 and on weekends.

    Let's make the service better here in the US before we start saying that we want more bandwith.

  • Good for them (Score:3, Funny)

    by grumpygrodyguy ( 603716 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @03:07PM (#4977589)
    Frankly I hope they continute with initiatives like these.

    I really like Indian food, and I've been waiting for a good excuse to leave the US. I guess it's a toss-up between India and Canada [cjb.net].
    • I really like Indian food, and I've been waiting for a good excuse to leave the US.

      India sounds like a happening place right now: Jobs, cool technology, trim babes, etc. All that is left is to fix is the dessentary, electricity outages, and that odd government of theirs.

      If dictators want to point to F'd up democracies to justify their rule, India is the place.

      I guess it's a toss-up between India and Canada

      Any jobs in Canada?

  • monkey see monkey want (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How long until the USA^H^H^HCorporations sets up a Great-Wall-of-China-Firewall, to filter out tech stories, so citizens don't pine for better technology...

  • what the hell is happening in india? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by peripatetic_bum ( 211859 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @03:14PM (#4977621) Homepage Journal
    I keep hearing and reading stories of Indian taking leap after technological leap (even if its just attempted leaps). First the leaped in the future of programming, then linux (the open source initiative that pretty much may have kicked Microsoft in the balls) and now this network leap.

    Has India reached some sort of critical mass that the US hasnt reached? I know they are supposed to be a poor country but hell, it feels like they are just about to leap frog over everyone in the next couplt of months. :)

    would like to hear replies and thanks for reading

    • Well there population is at almost 1 billion, making human resources plentful. I think in a knowledge based society this makes them "rich". Over all I think India is still very much a developing country, litercy, healthcare are huge issues there. While it's great that they will be able to convert their wealth of human resources into income they have to be careful they don't leave the poor behind, which could create great tensions down the road.

    • Re:what the hell is happening in india? (Score:5, Informative)

      by gabbarsingh ( 207183 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @03:48PM (#4977768) Journal
      Answer: The Internet and a booming Consumer middle class.

      As an Indian, I grew up amongst the ideas of conseravationist approach to life - use less electricity, lead as less materialistic life as possible - remenant of Gandhi's self-reliance theory. Since we don't have resources so we must consume less.

      This changed with the 90s reform, globalization, and the Internet. People learnt to consume - letting go off securities of saving money and spending judicially to credit cards and financing cars. Cable TV and MTV (Asia) encouraged the youth to let go of the seemingly secure shackles and embrace a consumer lifestyle - Ray Bans, Nike, Levis, Budweiser etc. All these "new" ideas found roots and manifestation is spending money on things besides necessities. The circle of consumption is now established and people are open to the idea of faster, better, cheaper.

      The Internet acted as catalyst. The two "sects" using the Internet were rich people and academia. And then the students in academia went on to be corporate managers etc so it spread. The Internet brought Linux few were in for ideology while most are in for the coolness factor. In India a brainy chap is cool although with the 'aping the west' the term "geek" has made it into the pop-culture. These "geeks" are wannabe geeks.

      So socio-economic transformation and H1B people's exposure to business and s/w has development has tilted the scales in favor service economy. Service economy depends on tiers of services which is another win for business spending. All these factors contribute to a demand for communication among other things.

      India has a healthy middle class of 300million - more than US' entire population and more for China who has witnessed fruits of globalization earlier and with Taiwan next doors as an evidence of success, Chinese and Indian are eager to catch up.

      IMHO, US has the greatest and strongest economy however current trend of "cutting cost" to serve an unknown master is not doing anyone any good.

    • They're progressive, we have telephone sanitizers (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Morgaine ( 4316 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @05:01PM (#4978042)
      Easy, they've got their foot on the accelerator of new technology, new ideas, new rules, and new freedoms.

      In contrast, we've got our foot on the brake of new constraints like "Intellectual Property", new "growth" areas like patents on everything, and new laws to ensure that old business doesn't succumb to the new.

      To which continent do you think the label of "progressive" applies best?

      The only reason we're still doing as well as we are here in the "first" world is because we have a large head of steam and massive resources from past years, and a world bank that knows on which side its toast is buttered. If everyone were to start afresh right now, our only growth industry would be in lawyers and related non-producers of wealth. It's kind of depressing.
  • Somehow I fail to be impressed by the service even before it becomes operational. I mean, come on, India is a developing country with salaries at least an order of magnitude lower than you're avarage. 10h (which is moderate use... for a day) with $.08 per minute is $48. This is my monthly bill for cable tv and 512kbps internet over cable. And I consider this bill too high...

    Robert
    • Double check your math there, fella. The article states .8 CENTS / minute, not 8 as you based your daily example. Granted even at a modest 5 bucks a day, its still well out of the range of a semi-3rd world country. (I use semi only due to the advances india seems to be making in pulling itself out of the gutter)

      Now, answer me this...Whens the last time you spent 10 hr's/day on a phone??? I work in tech support and call locations all over the US for 8+ hours/day and let me just tell you, when I'm not at work, I sure as HELL am not on the phone!

    • Re:And this is going to be success because...? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      India may be a developing country, but the pace at which it is developing, and the educated, ambitious, hard working middle class which is driving a lot of these developments, will get synergized by faster, cheaper and more pervasive information infrastructure being built.

      Phone calls are still quite expensive in India, and once the prices go down, the connectivity spreads to more and more areas, technology becomes more accessible in remote areas, this growth will blossom and reach a critical mass, enough to be able to take India out of the problems it is facing like poverty, health, education among poorer sections of the population.

      Another important region where India needs to focus on, is to build good, wider, better roads, conecting rural areas to urban centers, so that the benefits of development can flow at a faster pace, and for more uniform economic growth geographically. If the 'babus' dont do their task, the industrialists and non-resident indians should take some initiative.

  • Just Imagine (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by Martigan80 ( 305400 )
    What this will do for phone sex!!!

    On a serious note, this would be a kicker for the spam-king and the telemarket-king.

    Sorry couldn't resist. I'sa gots sum ishues.

  • Good for India... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 29, 2002 @03:20PM (#4977648)
    but bad for US and Canada, in the long run. Indian government realised that the only way they can reduce poverty and improve the condition of India's citizes is through technology. Permeating every class in the society with the technology will enable even the poorest people to access the learning materials and colaborate with other people in developing new products and services. Those products and services will in turn be sold and smart people who understand technology, no matter how poor they were, will get a chance to rise above the class to which they belonged and achieve their full potential.

    It is really too bad that US and Canada, with their sub-substandard primary and secondary education, and lack of technological vision in governmental leaders, will fall behind in technology and be reduced to the land of financial speculators and marketing people.

    • Re:Good for India... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by zogger ( 617870 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @04:08PM (#4977854) Homepage Journal
      yes and no, just saying "technology" will save you is incomplete. The industrialised western wealthy "world" got that way in the 19th and 20th centuries by exploiting almost free oil and water and building stuff using technological advances. Those three things are all needed, leave out any one of those three parts, you'll stay a poor nation. China is advancing technologically as well as india, the difference is they build stuff,not just talk about it or design it or trade it, they MANUFACTURE things by the cubic mile, and realising they will be needing more and more oil have picked the muslim oil producing nations to court and trade with, wheras india will forever be at war with where the oil comes from, hence, they will never achieve first world advanced wealthy status. They might achieve a much larger middle class-maybe- but won't become any sort of world power without cheap energy they own.

      I am NOT dissing the Indians, just pointing out basic economies. Oil and water AND adoption of technology makes technologically superior nations, not just schooling. India has about zilch for their own energy sources, and in manufacturing they are way behind. Japan was able to suceed by having all brand new manufacturing facilities built relatively recently after world war 2 and by being extremely protectioinist and taking advantage of oil at 2 to 10$ a barrel during the boom years of the 50s through the 70s, now they are hurting and are floundering in a sea of debt with zero hopes of recovering, although they are still making stuff that is advanced and cool, lack of energy will gradually drop their power and influence once china's oil thirst grows larger and as they complete their vertical manufacturing infrastructure. I would suggest NEVER underestimate how important cheap oil has been, is, and will be in the future. India is in even worse shape. They are enjoying a temporary boom that will fizzle in around ten years or so, IMO, as programming becomes more automatic with better tools and easy for almost anyone to do, while at the same time oil increases in scarcity and price. The oil producers will want durable goods, not programs. China is the big winner this century, because they have the only logical and viable long range wealth creation plan now. You are correct about the decline of the US and Canada, we've been sold out for short term profits by our various current "leaders" in the politics/business cartel, and also by your observation of the delibarate "dumbing down" of the populations here by inferior schooling and over emphasis on trivial matters and wealth re-arranging rather than what we were the worlds best at, which was wealth-creating. We are throwing that away for short term mega profits right now, too bad, too. Canada has a chance because of their oil,gas and water wealth, but it remains to be seen if their socialistic governmental structure is up to the task or not, in my observations the jury is still out on that. If they adopted the past japanese model of protectionism and not just selling off natural resources but USING them instead they could be much wealthier, but looks to me like they got sucked into the same trap the US middle class got sucked into by their "leaders", trading real cheap trinkets for a few years for eventual loss of income.
      • mod parent up.

      • Re:Good for India... (Score:3, Informative)

        by dracken ( 453199 )
        You simply do not understand India or the times that you live in. So what does Microsoft really "own". Guess who is the biggest bigger - Coca Cola, FedEx or Microsoft ?

        So what is the fastest growing industry now in India ? Software ? wrong - it is Biotech. So who are slated to be the largest H1B visa holders from India in 3 years time ? Software ? no Teachers. So what am I trying to say ? India simply doesnt have the time nor the resources for the old model of "build brick industries, sell stuff, wait for profit".

        Indian middle class is 300 million strong - much more than the entire population of US combined. We have population, a HUGE middle class and highly skilled labor force that costs a pittance. So our model is export workforce to any, I repeat *ANY* sector that needs skilled people, rake in money and build highways with that money. Thats what is happening today and thats what will happen in the future.
        • ..can't speak of europe, but there's a huge growing backlash against this massive legal and humongous illegal immigration into the US and outsourcing jobs, and the state of the economy as a whole. My best guess at this time is two years from now at the next presidential elections there will have occurred a major shift in peoples' consciousnesses and protectionism and serious clamp down controls and a drop of "guest workers" will occur in the US. Obviously I can't "know" this but that's why the trends are showing right now. The US actual wealth-producing productive workforce is relatively small for our population, we are hemorraghing real bona fide mortgage paying jobs now. personal bankruptices and mortgage defaults are at a 30 year high and climbing. Monday night 3/4 of a million middle class workers who have already lost their jobs will lose their last income, their unemployment checks, with roughly 50,000 a week every week after that for another few million. We AREN'T replacing those jobs nor anything close to those incomes in any close ratio. This will result eventually in some serious political re alignments, it's inevitable.

          How this relates to India I guess is we'll see such pressure on the US congress that those numbers of h1b's will drop, not right away but it'll happen. If ya'all can send them other places, swell, more power to ya, and I repeat I WASN'T dissing India in my original post, just looking at macros all over. You guys are doing what ya need to do, but that don't change the fact of the 2000's being the decade of the "resource wars" as the oil and water starts to seriously run out and gets divvied up and fought over. That's why I gave it roughly a ten year furtherance predictive time span. One of the reasons is that is roughly the time I think china will make their expansionist moves, as in "big ole war" or at least such a serious bluff it will be allowed to go on.

          As an aside, I think the world will be extremely lucky to not have at least one medium sized war go nuclear and biological by then, chances are high the subcontinent might be one (of several) of the places this occurs, and seeing as how that is such a wildcard in it's effects I can't really make any prognostications if that actually transpires.
      • Things do indeed look grim for the state of Western economies in the 21st century, particularily for the US as it ceases creating wealth and its economy starts hemorraging with nary a bandaid in sight. Canada I wouldn't say is in the same position but the similarities btwn those two countries economies (and Canada's reliance on the US's) can't be ignored.

        But fortunately, President Bush, or at least his advisors, are way ahead of the /. computer-chair-critics on this one. Seriously, does anyone actually think Iraq is a bigger worry than North Korea? They've been nice and quiet for a few years and beyond oppressing their own people and running a dictatorship (not things that typically bothers the US) have been pretty well-behaved. But all that oil they're sitting on.... geez, what a freedom-loving, SUV-driving, liberty-humping country could do with all that oil. Said president simply needs to erase the oppressive government, install a friendly secular one, then donate loads of (primarily military) aide, ala Israel, and we'll be rolling in the smelly black stuff. George Bush may be a few marbles short but he has some damn good advisors.
    • most interesting thing about this post is that the mistakes made in syntax are of the sort I'd expect from a native Indian who learned English as a second or fourth language.

      Unfortunately, he's right about the US.

  • CDMA vs 802.11 Hotspots (Score:3, Insightful)

    by path_man ( 610677 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @03:23PM (#4977662)

    It's hard to get excited about 144Kbps when 802.11 hotspots are popping up like wildfire. The math is easy to figure out... 11M vs 144K. Granted, I can't drive through town downloading email while in my car over roaming hotspots ((yet)) but then again, the likelyhood of getting dropped by Sprint PCS even in major corridors makes that a "so-what" in my book.

    The real reason that CDMA gets me excited is as an augmentation to WLAN connections. To at least have some net connectivity if I'm hopping between hotspots. Not as a replacement for high-speed connections. The ILECs and other broadband carriers have nothing to fear from CDMA and should begin to embrace working together with them.

    Why? Because at the end of the day, it's still cheaper, faster, and better to have your connection over physical fibre and no wireless carrier in the world can replace the stuff that is already buried in the ground.

    • The math is easy to figure out... 11M vs 144K.

      Well, effective bandwidth of an 802.11b cell is only a little greater than 4 Mbps. There is significant overhead in the protocol. But yes, it is still nicer than the dinky phone connections.

      Even better, if it turns out it's possible to reduce the size of the phase array AP (there was a story here few weeks ago) that can dynamically follow users with a directional beam, the cell phone stuff may even lose its range advantage.
    • The ILECs and other broadband carriers have nothing to fear from CDMA and should begin to embrace working together with them.

      They have a lot to fear.

      I know a few friends who don't have home phone lines. A decade ago that would have been almost impossible to do. The number of people who've done this is small, but growing.

      Next month, I plan to cut my home phone line. I can't wait to say good riddance to Bellsouth.

      Currently an alternative for DSL is cable. But even the cable companies should fear cell service providers as well.

      Just recently Sprint came up with $40 always on internet ( not including minutes, I assume ). Service is bad, sure, the phone choice is limited, definately, the speeds are slow. But it's only a start and I'm sure the rest of the industry will catch up, and service will improve.

      You have to understand most people don't *need* broadband, and can get by very well on dialup speeds. Myself included. GSM/GPRS, bluetooth, a phone plan that allows me enough data to surf the web on average of 1/2hr per day, is all I need. And I think that would suit many other people just fine as well.

      Look to Japan for example. I've heard it's more of the norm to not have a landline in younger demographics ( can't verify that ).

      Eventually, the local phone companies are going to realize all that money they spent trying to keep their monopoly was wasted. As wireless is going to do them in anyway.

    • I think this is a step in the right direction, though. If we were to wait for the technology "just around the corner" all the time, we'd be kicking ourselves every 2 months. You have to start somewhere, and this is a positive development for India.
  • With this inexpensive computer [sciam.com] it might dramatically drive down the prices of web access and give India's lower class a much needed edge over the surrounding countries. After all, for a computer that costs $99 and monthly access for $5, it seems like a no-brainer for the thousands of informationally-unaware people there.

  • The real purpose of the network (Score:3, Funny)

    by Infonaut ( 96956 ) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Sunday December 29, 2002 @03:26PM (#4977683) Homepage Journal
    and we'll have college kids playing deathmatches with each other in classroom

    I'm absolutely positive that it was gamers in the Indian government who pushed for this network. I mean, come on. It's not like there are any actually relevant uses for this in a developing nation that is trying to leapfrog the 20th century and take a leading position in the 21st.

    Nope, it's all about gaming.

  • All I have to say is 'w00t'... I really cant wait till the day when we all have wireless 1GB connections. *drool* -Bill
  • not quite! but i do get pretty decent response times on slashdot... i got a verizon card last week and am posting (pecking on my tablet) from a coffee shop. i find that it is very functional, and only miss the bandwidth when downloading files. bandwidth seems to be an excuse to surf faster. recomended.
    • the modem card is good because rarely can you find a consistent hotspot which is free. sure if you're driving around town they pop up, but my experience has been that the signals often are weak and drop, and if they know what they're doing, they are protected. damn starbucks to hell! everytime i walk in there, my browser automatically goes to the tmobile site. trying to get off that site is a pain in the ass. they certainly have something to teach top the pop-up add people.
  • "Now all we need is Quake for Java and we'll have college kids playing deathmatches with each other in classroom at 144kbps."

    I thought I had a tough time a college with MUDS tempting me.
  • Old, old, old story. JQuake is dead. Long live Frag Island! [passagen.se]. Well, back in 1997 anyway.
    • dead links everywhere.

      I really wish they'd have open-sourced their java 3d engine.. It kicked major butt, even on the first generation JITs of way back when.

  • yawn.

    In 1995 I had flat rate, all I could eat, ubiquitous (at least in the cities I lived in/travelled to the most: Seattle, SF, NYC), wireless Internet access.

    Since the death of that network (Ricochet) I have used other wireless networks (GSM, CDMA, CDPD, etc.) and what made me quit using them very swiftly was the usage-based pay scheme.

    You see the problem is that wireless communications are flaky. I know that about half of my voice calls on wireless devices are lousy and/or dropped... data communications is nowhere near as flexible and tolerant of lousy connections as the human ear is. At least I can kind of guess that my wife wants me to stop ... the .... groc... some... milk ...and... thing... dinner.

    But my computer/PDA/smartphone/whatever, when presented with a datastream like that would just give up... and try again, and again, and again... at whatever cents per minute? Fsck that. I hate paying for something on a metered basis that just *doesn't work.*

    If they came up with a plan that was unlimited, for say $29.95 a month? (what I was paying for ricochet BTW) Sure, I'd buy it. But metered? Forget it.

    • Yeah, and guess who is still in business today? It is hard to run a service like that for free. Ricochet sunk huge amounts of money into their infrastructure, and even that was only in a small number of places. On the other hand, they had a tiny number of users compared to cellular carriers.

      If it's any consolation, think of it this way: your l33t wireless service got paid for by rich venture capitalists, and any use you got out of it is money no longer in their pockets.
    • Well, guess what.

      As of very recently, the Sprint PCS Vision network is no longer usage-based.

      Yep, unlimited internet access, 300 minutes, free nights and weekends, voice mail, free PCS-to-PCS on a two-year contract, all on a nice color phone with web browser, email, and text messaging. This costs exactly $40 per month, which is $10 more than the regular audio-only plan.

      My Samsung N400 will arrive this week. I can buy a USB cable and hook my laptop up to the Vision network. Apparently, it works on Linux too; the phones simply identify as an ACM device and you dial #777 to set up the PPP connection. It doesn't take your minutes, it just hooks you into the always-on Vision connection (50-70kbps average, from what I hear).

      Yes, that would be unlimited wireless internet. The Treo 300 uses the Vision network as well; looks like a pretty nice little setup.

      Hopefully it all works. The EULA says that you're only supposed to use the Vision network on the phone itself, but they contradict that and sell a USB cable and software on their own web site. Also, a lot of the website claims that Vision is metered, but on the actual plan purchase page it's unlimited. Just need to update a lot of their website, apparently.

      I'll check it out this week, and make sure it works. If you want to find out how it goes, let me know.

  • WiLL is not mobile (Score:4, Informative)

    by cdmafoa ( 82170 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @05:05PM (#4978052)
    "Ambani said eventually, the wireless in local loop (WLL) facility would connect all the 6,40,000 villages..."

    This system is WiLL which means no handoffs. This type of system is great for replacing existing (or non-existant) land line infrastructures to single points (like homes). This reduces the complexity of the system and therfore the cost of installation and upkeep. However, this system doesn't work if the user is moving around, so it's no substitue for a true cellular system.

    • Re:WiLL is not mobile (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Quixote ( 154172 )
      The fact is, most people there require just regular phone service, not even cellular. Seeing how densely populated cities are, it would be impossible to lay the copper to connect everyone. WiLL is a godsend. People don't travel much (there) on a daily basis anyways (except, maybe in the 4 large metros). For them, WiLL is as good as cellular.

      Just read today that Telstra is also going in for WiLL [news.com.au], and is looking at what the Indians are doing as an example.

  • If they don't have enough bandwidth for Slashdot, how do they expect to serve all of India?

  • Technology helps (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Quixote ( 154172 ) on Sunday December 29, 2002 @05:28PM (#4978159) Homepage Journal
    I'm sure there are a lot of readers here who'll say "but what about education/poverty/healthcare/yadayada", as always. I think it is time you guys changed your views on this. I know, a cellphone won't cure any illnesses (may even cause some, but thats besides the point..), but it can help in reducing poverty. Here are a couple of examples:
    • In some southern Indian states, fishermen have found a great use of cellphones. When they go out to sea for fishing, on the way back they call at all of the local harbors within their range, and find the best price for their catch! Some fishermen have found that their cellphone paid for itself in just a couple of weeks.
    • Farmers can keep in touch with their nearby mandis (wholesale markets), and strike deals which will maximise their gain from their harvest (i.e., pick the right time, sell their produce in advance, checkout prices at all nearby places and take their produce to the one with the highest prices, etc.).
    These are but 2 examples; I'm sure if someone did a study, you'd find 100s more.

    I liken this new technology to what happens when a man-made wreck lands at the bottom of the sea. Nature quickly finds ways to use the wreck to its advantage: new coral colonies bloom, fishes use it as their hideout, etc. Similarly, the people of India will quickly adapt and find ways to leverage this new technology in ways that we, here in the west, can't even imagine. I say more power to them!

  • Wireless? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Kelerain ( 577551 )
    This wireless network will cover 90% of India's population on a backbone of 60,000 kms of optic fibre.

    I'd just like to know where they plan on buying 60,000 kms of wireless optical cable.
  • >xyzzy

    You're in the world's most populous nation, surrounded by people needing telecom infrastructure.
  • It's one of the worst pieces of legislation the RIAA has ever pushed through Congress. Oh, wait, that's DCMA... I mean, DMCA... This dyxlesia really gets me sometimes...
  • From the guys who started it all. By the way this company is no joke. These guys(Ambanis) started with literally nothing to turn into a fortune 500 company with an annual revenue of $13.5 billon in a short span 27 years. So, when they say we will do it, they are taken very seriously. Reliance Infocomm Ushers a Digital Revolution In India http://www.ril.com/eportal/media/NewsDetails.jsp?i d=N279&page_id=72 Second, in mid 2003, with an enterprise netway revolution by providing 100 mbps Ethernet links to every desktop and device to half a million enterprise buildings initially and eventually to 10 million buildings..... Third, in end 2003, with a consumer convergence revolution by providing high speed Ethernet links to 80 million homes initially and eventually to every home..... The Dhirubhai Ambani Developer Programme will create a new platform for innovations in information technology. One thousand developers of software solutions are being enrolled now to eventually grow to 100,000 developers by December 2003

  • The wheel comes full circle?? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by shamir_k ( 222154 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @03:11AM (#4980168) Homepage
    About India :
    India - population 1,000,000,000 , 60 % rural
    Middle class - 300,000,000 (mostly in the cities)
    Average cell-phone acquistion cost Rs. 4500 ( $90)
    Average cell-phone charges Rs. 2 per minute ( $0.04)

    Reliance :
    Allocated Rs. 200,000,000,000 ($ 4.5 billion) at the end of 2000 to lay optic fibre throughout the country within 2 years.
    They are the largest busines group in India and hav revenues in excess Rs. 60,000,000,000 ($ 1.5 Billion) from their existing petrochemical industries. And a fortune 500 company.

    The plan is simple, invest huge amounts of money (which nobody else can) to rollout a wireless network across 600 cities (in Phase I!!). reduce charges to the point where nobody else can compete, and provide cutting edge technology. Subsidise handset costs to persuade users to agree to long-term plans. Provide dirt-cheap call rates (even in Indian rupees) so that usage is high. Watch the revenues roll in from a tech-savvy and tech-starved country.

    I can testify that there is a lot of excitement in India over this launch. Many, many people are already planning to switch from their existing GSM services. Remember, this launch is aimed at the 300 million middle class, who can well afford this. They are alos planning to introduce video conferencing and other 3G technologies within a year! Large parts of India may get 3G before the US!!

    Seems that the world is leaving the US behind in adopting wireless tech. The best part is that the Java services on these CDMA phones is being set-up by a US company (which I will not name), which is starting a development center in India for that purpose. The wheel coming full circle ??? :))

    Should I also mention that I submitted this last week?

    Remember, every 6th person is an Indian.
  • When throwing these numbers around, do you ever see mentions of network response times? Sure, the bandwidth is a big number but how much difference does it make in practice?

    Quake and other forms of twitch gaming do not care that much about the bandwidth. The current cellular phone networks have more than enough bandwidth to handle multiplayer FPS games.

    However, what they don't have is the latency to drive games that require sub-second reactions. I have seen no indication from anyone that this would yet happen even with the next generation of cell phones. Even the latest networks employ packet systems that might take anywhere up to several seconds to respond to your query.

    Until we actually get some decent ping times on the network, game design has to be centered around other ideas. Like this one about persistent 24/7 galactic exploration & conquest in the style of Master of Orion...

    That, and wireless hotspots. Bring on BlueTooth Quake!

    Jouni

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