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Hardware

China Forges Ahead With 'Dragon' CPU 533

Posted by timothy from the not-mythical dept.
Dynamic Drive writes "There's an interesting article on Cnet regarding China's eager attempts to lessen her dependence on foreign technology when it comes to CPUs. The latest endeavor is a homegrown chip named 'Dragon', which apparently is roughly equivalent in speeds to those of Intel chips made between 1995-1997, or 200-260MHz. While I think such an audacious effort is most certainly commendable, I can't help but wonder what the potential things that could go wrong with designing a CPU are, such as software incompatibilities etc." This is the same processor mentioned in September, only now more than 10,000 of the chips have been made.
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China Forges Ahead With 'Dragon' CPU More

China Forges Ahead With 'Dragon' CPU

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  • Well, I -am- actually amazed at the progression of China's CPU, but I'm even more stunned that Slashdot checked to see if this was already posted...

    Here's an October story [peopledaily.com.cn] from the People's Daily (and another [peopledaily.com.cn] from September) to see how they see it...

    • Re:Stunned about this... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by crgrace ( 220738 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:15PM (#4948807)
      I'm not so amazed by China's progression. I'm an integrated circuit designer and I can tell you from experience that some of the best designers I've ever met are from the People's Republic of China. Once more of China's IC designers decide to stay in China instead of emigrating to the USA and Canada, we've got Trouble.

      Also, once an architecture has been out for a while, there is a lot of information available which can be used to redesign it. Lastly, while 260 MHz was pushing the technology in 1997, it isn't that big a deal in 2002. Does anyone know what feature size the chip is fabbed in?

      • Re:Stunned about this... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Things change. US job market is in trouble. INS basically shut the door. 2-3 more of missed immigration years and all those former Chineese students will be hired locally by rising new Chineese hi-tech companies. Actually, it's already going into that direction: Chineese hitech companies have already started to hire former Chineese right from California to work back in China for pretty quite competitive salaries.

        Don't worry about money, it's not an issue any more. International banks/investors already trust China enough to put more money in such uncoming projects. And Bush administration cannot control all of them. So, I expect to see more and more such projects in news.

      • Re:Stunned about this... (Score:3, Informative)

        by epine ( 68316 )

        So far no one has mentioned IDT, Centaur, or the Winchip. That product was developed by a very small team who shrewdly avoided applying great complexity for small gains. It's not that difficult at all to great price/performance working a couple of litho generations behind the bleeding edge. (That's an optical pun BTW.)

  • "Dragon" - named after the speed. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ann O'Nymous-Coward ( 460094 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:07PM (#4948765)
    How fast is it?

    It's Dragon.

  • OK, there has to be a chinese site somewhere with details on these chips.

    Anyone have a good realtime client side translator for web surfing?

    • We also need someone in China to clue us in on the local TV.

      I want to know if they have wacky processor commercials with some bald guys painted all red.

      Or maybe they do that one commercial, "wooo-HOOO!" I mean "Wu-hu!" and some stylized video of extreme stunts like washing ragged clothes in a sewage/chemical-polluted river, children gathering sticks for heat, and morning marches to forced labor.

      Next up is People's OS. To quote User Friendly, "This is where you will go today."

      If you can't tell, I'm not a huge fan of communism. It always ends up making everyone equal, but a few of them much more equal (thank you Orwell). I also dislike the notion that having rich people makes more poor people. Zero-sum is so infantile, motivated more by personal greed than by love of humanity. Mmm, get me some 'o that rich people money. Wealth can be added to the economy. To abstract it to the highest level, the earth is not a closed system. We take energy from the sun before it is radiated back into space, as the plants did before they turned to oil, and as we can gather from hydroelectric and solar cell power. Until the sun burns out, we can continue to grab as much of the energy as possible, and add that energy to our economy. As we grow more successful at this, the overall quality of life on this planet will continue to increase.

      Hey, I rambled.

      Time to go to bed, and turn off this sun-absorbing Athlon.
  • Unveiled in September, the "Dragon" central processing unit boasts speeds between 200MHz and 260MHz, roughly equivalent to models that global chip leader Intel first marketed between 1995 and 1997.

    Later in the article...
    "People won't buy the chip just because it's home-made," he told a news conference.

    I have the sneaking suspicion that there are other reasons besides the fact that the chip is homemade that makes people not want to buy it...
  • You would think a country with a billion+ people and vast resources would be able to develop a cpu more on par with current technology ..

    All they would need is 1.2GHz to get into Apple territory.

    • Re:why so slow? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Mac Degger ( 576336 )
      Come on...they have to start somewhere. I think it's pretty impressive that they got this far, considering that it took Intel some 30-40 years to reach those speeds.
      • I'm not disagreeing with you but honestly it's not like China had to start from scratch like Intel did. The chips are slow, but they are just a start.

        Transmeta did better with it's initial chips if I'm not mistaken.
      • considering that it took Intel some 30-40 years to reach those speeds.

        Was Intel even in the business for thirty years? I thought they invented the microprocessor in 1972.

        Anyhow, "catching up" to five years behind the times really isn't that hard to do as they are pulling from a pre-existing knowledge base, one that Intel had to start from scratch in some cases. In short, it's easier to copy than it is to truly start from scratch.

    • Why not? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Wyatt Earp ( 1029 )
      What do people need a GHz+ CPU for?

      Digital Video?
      DTP?
      Games?
      Databases?
      SW Development?

      Yes and no. All these things happened before CPUs hit 2 GHz, and my 800 MHz iMac does fine in Final Cut Pro and Photoshop, hell it works great with Virtual PC 6 w/Windows 2000 and AutoCAD 2000.

      200-300 MHz will do fine for the vast majority of users. People on dial-up in rural China need a little self-contaned box that hooks up to a TV and plays Video CDs, not a 3 GHz Intel chip that needs a 700 Watt Power Supply.
      • "What do people need a GHz+ CPU for? ... 200-300 MHz will do fine for the vast majority of users."

        Man, talk about a tired argument. Let me explain something to you: People buy PC's to last for years, they don't upgrade them on a whim. Yeah, you can get by on 200-300 mhz if you really want to. The truth of the matter is, though, that PC's are general purpose machines. They are not e-mail appliances. You never know what somebody's going to cook up 1-2 years from now that'll require a faster machine. That's why people buy the fastest processors.

        A lot of people buy PCs with the thought in the back of their mind that they're going to play games on it. That alone will make somebody think "You know, I can spend another $200 now and my computer will last that much longer".

        So yeah, you can get by on a minimalist system. But be realistic, computers are there to do a variety of tasks, not a few limited applications. So let's put this dumb argument to bed already, it is hardly insightful.

  • Given that the speed of this thing is 1/10th current chips, I doubt the PRC will be running current Windows versions.


    Speed, performance, instruction set differences, and the stated goal of independence will lead them to avoid Microsoft at all costs.


    Maybe this means 'Red Flag Linux', maybe not. But it's a start.

  • 266mhz, gotta start somewhere. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:17PM (#4948824) Homepage Journal
    Besides, if you run more efficent software, 266 is more then enough..

    Please no jokes about "640k being enough for anyone". im serious.. most of the time we waste tons of cycles, beacuse we can. one doesnt *need* a ghz chip to get work done..

    And if its truely homegrown, and not cloned, then they deserve a LOT of credit for getting this far this fast.

  • Just imagine. (Score:4, Funny)

    by AltGrendel ( 175092 ) <`su.0tixe' `ta' `todhsals-ga'> on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:17PM (#4948825) Homepage
    You would acutally need a Beowulf cluster of these.

    Ok, ok, it's just a lame joke about a lame processor. Move along.

  • They have the market for their hardware. They are assured distribution in large quantities.

    What could not have succeeded in a free economy, can be forced upon users and developers by an all-controling state.

    In other words, if they really decide to do this, China of all nations is very well positioned. They'll probably port Linux to their hardware and have a western-free platform pretty soon.

    • Yeah great, 75% of the people don't have food or access to medication for the growing AIDs epidemic but hell, at least they have Linux computers.
    • What could not have succeeded in a free economy, can be forced upon users and developers by an all-controling state.

      I doubt it will really be forced on people. What is more likely is that the subsidized price of the Dragon will make it much cheaper than Intel-based PCs. Also, it will probably be accompanied by a "Buy Chinese" campaign, similar to the "Buy American" campaign in the late 80's.

      I doubt Intel will mind as long as Dragon is running at 200MHz, but if it started to compete toe to toe, some kind of trade scuffle would happen, I'm sure.

  • Feng Shui (Score:5, Funny)

    by CySurflex ( 564206 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:21PM (#4948854)
    In the spirit of Feng Shui, these chips will always be situated across from the heat sink, have a picture of a fish somewhere on them, and will never do division operations on Tuesdays.
    • "Feng Shui" is Japanase, not Chinese.
      • To paraphrase from THL/Sexylosers, "Your shit's fucked fuckshit." Feng Shui is most certainly Chinese. How could you attribute a science to a people who can't even pronounce its name?
  • I've read the various linked articles (including the People's Daily articles that sound like something Babelfish spit out -- "The CPU "Dragon Chip" developed by the Computer Institution of the Chinese Academy of Science with its own intellectual property rights has been heaped under questions and doubts even before its emergence into the world...The Intel Co., a worldly chip elder put in billions of the US dollars a year for the design and development while the expense of the "Dragon Chip" for that was a mere 30 million in the people's currency as announced the Computer Institution.")

    It's still not clear to me what this is supposed to be. Is it intended as a replacement for x86-like CPUs, as most people here seem to assume, or something novel, as the cryptic reference to RISC suggests?

  • Other than the fact that it's new? The various articles I've seen say it's primarily for embedded use (no shocker there, at these speeds - that's fine, computers should be more like appliances anyway IMO) but that's about it. I assume that it's 32 bit but I don't even know that much, right? I would hope it's RISC, as well. I guess it has a standards-compliant FPU also?

    Where can I find a tech brief on this CPU in English?

  • They're using Red Flag, or whatever the name of their distribution they've been promoting internally is. They don't need to worry about 'chip incompatibilities'.

    They just need to write code for that processor, start their own branch of the linux kernal for that arch and off they go.

    I think it's commendable not wanting to rely on a foreign country for your main source of technology. It's not like the US has ever used trade embargos in the past....

  • Low speed CPUs (Score:2, Interesting)

    by samj ( 115984 )
    I think we'll start seeing all sorts of systems in the 10^2 to 10^3Mhz range over the next year or two. VIA in particular have some interesting products with their fanless C3 processors [via.com.tw] which operate at 500Mhz - plenty for most applications, and the Eden platform [via.com.tw]. People will be more interested in smaller systems [viavpsd.com] which are quieter [via.com.tw], cheaper, and which use less power [via.com.tw]. And when you can run things like Linux or Lindows you start seeing things like the Walmart PCs [slashdot.org], which I figure is pretty much what they're after. Of course VIA aren't the only ones in this area, although I am more interested in supporting them (and Transmeta [transmeta.com]) than a certain other chip manufacturer with a virtual monopoly.
    • "10^2 to 10^3MHz"

      You could have typed "100 to 1000MHz" and saved youself a keystroke. Now, while using exponential notation is useful when working with equations (or to save yourself from writing 1000000000) it generally isn't to useful otherwise.

  • --china is completely versant in the concepts of "wealth re arranging and managing" -the current accepted western short term profitas modal- as opposed to "wealth creation"-which was the past standard in the eventually named "industrial world". They have thouroughly embraced vertical manufacturing as a means towards rapid wealth creation,are suceeding at it, and their balance of trade surplusses with other nations around the world reflect these principles. This move by them is logical and quite predictable, and I would expect them to gain expertise in this technology much faster than most people might assume. whether from a white room effort or reverse engineering, it won't matter as long as they do it. In 30 years they have gone from basically an almost total agricultural and antique-class manufacturing country to the premier world's mass manufacturing nation, and by even conservative analyst predictions will have the worlds largest "true" economy based on tangible wealth creation by around 2015.

    In short, laugh now while you still can. Now I don't LIKE it, I think especially in the US we have made a complete blunder in our trade dealings with china, but I can't dismiss out of hand what they have accomplished in such a short time, nor can I dismiss what the pressure of having a billion and a half people and a need for jobs and energy and fresh water will do to a nation that is lead from the top down as hard as china's is. They intend to kick booty and take names, and in the near future, on the business battlefield and maybe on the real warfare battlefield.

    Think about it, the most often heard comment of chinas amazing recent successes is "cheap labor". Nope, that ain't it,for example the african continent has cheap labor avaialable by the millions and millions, but manufacturing is going to china because they are actually able to *accomplish complex tasks in a very large way* using "cheap labor". There's a BIG difference.

  • in Soviet Russia (Score:5, Interesting)

    by meshko ( 413657 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:46PM (#4949024) Homepage
    they used to make "Poisk" ("Search") computers based on chips that were manfucatured in, I beleive, Kiev, Ukraine. The processor was a rip off of the Intel's 8086 chip. Then, I beleive, they managed to rip off 286. We had a bunch of these in our school. They were quite compatible. I've even heard reports of Windows 3.11 almost working on them. Many DOS programs worked just fine (I remember Computer Associates' SuperCalc working quite well). Almost all games failed to work though. I beleive we traced it down to the io port 0x60 not being the keyboard port (I don't know if that's a processor or AT architecture feature).
    Unfortunately they never succeeded in making a Soviet verion of the 80386 processor. Now I've heard to stories which claim the reason of the failure. The first one says that in order to reproduce 80286 they just took really thin slices of the Intel's processors and reversed engineered them this way. In order to prevent this, Intel started to print layers of 80386 processor in waves, not on straight planes and it was much harder to slice that without ruining the processor.
    The second version says that poplar seeds were to blame: there is a lot of poplars in Kiev (that part is a fact) and when the time for poplar seeds comes, the air in the city is filled with it. They couldn't get it out of their manufacturing areas and had to shut it down.

    • I think you forgot to make the now obligitory Yakov Smirnoff reference; although, in your defense, "In Soviet Russia, "Poisk" ("Search") computers manufacture you " is just not that punchy.

      ~jeff

  • Obligatory chinese food joke adaptation (Score:3, Informative)

    by Elphin ( 7066 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:49PM (#4949039) Homepage
    The problem with chinese CPUs... ...is that after an hour after you wish ordered another one.

  • China needs this to survive (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:51PM (#4949050) Homepage
    Makes sense. In five years, with Palladium and XP, Microsoft will have the power to turn off whole countries by remote control. They can almost do it now, via "Windows activation" and "Windows update".

    No sovereign nation can take such a risk.

    • You're assuming these countries will even be using windows. I refer you to the earlier article [slashdot.org] that described the Chinese government working on the development of Yangfan Linux [cosoft.org.cn].
    • I agree, but it all comes down to a question of whether you trust the Chinese government MORE than Microsoft. The Dragon CPU and its associated hardware might, instead of DRM naughtiness, have evil capitalist pig monitoring naughtiness instead.

      I'm assuming the source for Red Flag (their version of Linux) is available, but will we get details on the underlying Dragon hardware? I mean, peace and love and goodwill to all men and all that, but the main reason I trust Linux is beause the source is available. If the hardware is closed, we're back to the "no no, *trust* us" situation again...

      Of course, I'm hoping if MS or China release hardware systems that take control of my computer away from me, I can just tell them to get bent and buy from someone else...
    • Are there people in China that actually pay for Windows?

      Kidding! I'm kidding!!!

      C'mon folks, I *LOVE* the Chinese ... food.
    • Very intelligent point. I read the other day where Microsoft turned off Argentina and they were pissed. Seriously, dude, we all hate M$, but spare the hyperbole.

  • Military Uses (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mittermeyer ( 195358 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @08:52PM (#4949055) Homepage
    Kids, microprocessors are not just happy little toys we like to geek with, they are military weapons.

    No I don't mean hacking, I mean weapon guidance.

    The first SAM interception of an enemy warplane from a USN ship was done with a 64K 1 MhZ fire control director. Ever since, more powerful computer power drives all of our 'smart' weapons. China knows this and is probably not interested in having a CPU ban cripple their firepower.

    Building a native capability means that China can make militarized versions without worrying about whether we 'messed up' a production run or can exploit a flaw we built in.

  • Why not just steal it? Like everything else... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The PRC could just reverse engineer an existing chip and make more of them. Of course there's that whole copyright issue, but hey, China could simply nationalize Intel's rights to the design. Intel could protest, but it's not like the US is going to do anything about it. I mean is the US is going to stand by while a country oppresses it citizens (Falun Gong, and the Great Firewall, one child policy), invades it's neighbors (Tibet and Hong Kong to some degree), damages our property and holds our citizens hostage (April 2001 surveillance plane), what makes anyone think that the US is going get mad at China over Intel. In any event, after we cowed down to them over the WTO and most favored nation trade status, China should feel embolden to do what ever they want, which is after all what they have always done.

    The Chinese people are an intelligent, rational people. Their government on the other hand is not. Any leader that has a need to march giant pictures of him self down the street has no respect for his people, and a very small diao. Any government that is not derived of the people has not legitimacy, that includes the direction that our United Police States of America is going.

    Sorry about the rant...
  • If I had to design a new CPU, I'd think it be of worth to try and work with asynchronous logic. If the technology for asynchronous CPUs developed far enough, we'd be much better for it.

    Of course, realistically in their position I'd never want to try. This is not for academia.

    (Post script: IANAEE [electrical engineer]).

    ---Lailyx
    "I've got an ace up my sleeve...I just have to rememeber which pocket I put it in"
  • Its really hard to type with those little sticks.

  • why hate on the clock-speed? (Score:3, Informative)

    by .pentai. ( 37595 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @09:41PM (#4949278) Homepage
    I'd like to start out by noting, as I write this, I'm on a 175mhz machine...an SGI O2 to be exact...

    For a bit more info, I have a p3-1.3ghz, a dual p2 466, amongst a few others...why then do I use this machine? it's my preference, and I can.

    I do everything I need to do in the day on this little 175mhz machine. Why? Because I can. It's non-x86, which for me is a HUGE benefit (such a horrid little architecture...), and is fast enough to run mozilla, X, and whatever apps I need (including Maya for 3d stuff)....

    Before you go saying ya it's an SGI, it's not a PC, NEITHER IS THE DRAGON! It's not a standard mobo w/ 200mhz pentium in there, it's a different cpu, different architecture internally, and may be a lot faster than many of you are assuming...
  • and cracks open one sleep encrusted eye.

    What does it feel like when the whole world changes? Well, how do you feel right now?

    The implications of this are simply staggering.

    KFG
  • This kind of reminds me of the Agat [old-computers.com].

    Back in the mid-80's the Soviets cloned the Apple ][, probably as proof of the worthiness of their technology. I'm sure the Chinese are doing a better job. The Agat still had Woz' name burned in the ROM.
  • I cannot believe that some of the people on this weblog are so blinded with happiness by the idea of sticking it to the US that you are driven to mention the words "free" or "libre" with China in the same sentence! China is home to one of the most repressive regimes in the world! You GNU zealots with your communist agenda make me sick.

  • SVCD faq (Score:3, Informative)

    by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:20PM (#4949597) Homepage Journal

    From the SVCD faq [uwasa.fi]


    • The political objectives of the Chinese government. It
      was decided that DVD - while undoubtedly a good technical specification as
      such - is all too tightly controlled by DVD Consortium, a closed body of
      foreign companies. The Chinese government did not quite like the idea that the
      domestic home electronics industry would have to pay royalties to foreign
      companies in order to manufacture next generation video disc products for
      Chinese people. It was calculated that creating a royalty-free, full-fledged
      video disc format on their own would be a major long-term win for the domestic
      industry. Moreover, this was also considered an issue of national pride; an
      opportunity to flex some technical muscle, and to send a clear signal to the
      outside world that China has enough critical mass to be able to ignore foreign
      entertainment standards it does not want to conform to. (Chinese politicians
      and researchers are now keen to celebrate SVCD as the first international
      high-tech standard that has been developed in China.) Finally, it was also
      thought that a Chinese video disc standard would help in pressuring the DVD
      Consortium to keep the licensing fees down, at least for the Chinese market      .

  • "I can't help but wonder what the potential things that could go wrong with designing a CPU are, such as software incompatibilities etc."

    The Chinese are not interested in running Western binaries or being vulnerable to common Wintel viruses, so if there is a lack of binary compatibility, that's actually a plus. The question is, can they get Red Flag Linux to compile on it, and unless it's a completely dain bramaged design, the answer will certainly be yes.

    Given the aggressive intrusiveness of both Microsoft and the U.S. government, not being able to run Windows or Windows software is something the Chinese might actually be aiming for.

  • I used CPUInfo on one of those recently... (Score:5, Funny)

    by vudufixit ( 581911 ) on Monday December 23, 2002 @11:37PM (#4949655)
    The result that came back was interesting - instead of a rating in MHZ and the serial number, I saw, "Help, I'm trapped in a Chinese CPU Factory"
  • In the future, when Palladium comes integrated in pretty much all Intel and AMD chips, and All your Base Are Belong to Microsoft, The "Dragon" chips might be our only hope of sustaining our freedom. Of course, this is a farfetched cry: Either Palladium or Dragon could go the way of the Dodo before Bill Gates consolidates his empire of Evil.

    Funny thing a communist country might help the "Free World" citizens keep their freedom. :)

    I wish them (the Chinese engineers) good luck, just in case Palladium comes to fruition.
  • "While I think such an audacious effort is most certainly commendable,..." Oh for Pete's sake. Here we have a communist government that is the complete antithesis of all things open and free and the fact that they are making a crap processor (and probably making 10 year-old girls work fourteen hour days to produce them (China [independent.co.uk] ) is commendable. Step away from your keyboard and think for a few minutes folks. Making homebrew processors is not ideological. Killing people for disagreeing with you is. What is commendable here? ER

  • Name! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Konster ( 252488 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @12:19AM (#4949780)
    The company that produes the Dragon CPU is going to rename themselves Xintel. They are planning an early 2004 stateside release.
  • I must say that is really quite stupid. Just a few weeks ago there was a flood of stories about how American computer waste was being dumped in China. Graphical depictions of the toxic materials, the low wages, and terrible living conditions of the people there doing the work, in contrast to a more modern facility a few miles away manufacturing goods for American consumers.

    Hello? Is anyone thinking over here? OK, let me help: Get The Chips From The Recycled Computers. They're twice as fast as what you're making, and believe me, you are going to see some suprises in the 'control' department when you try and make your own chip. I've a lot more ideas to help you out if you need them.

  • In Communist China, new Dragon chip overclocks YOU!

  • Some clarifications... (Score:5, Informative)

    by francium de neobie ( 590783 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @06:01AM (#4951059)
    It seems that most of the Slashdot population are misinformed about the Godson-I chip...

    1. Although the chip's Chinese name can be translated directly to "Dragon chip", it has an English name "Godson-I"

    2. The chip is manufactured in .18um process. Not the old .25um.

    3. The chip is targetted at the embedded market, it's not going to compete with the current GHz chips like Pentium 4 or Athlon XP. It's not guaranteed for the future Godson generations tho...

    4. Therefore, the chip has an extremely low power consumption, ranging from 0.4W to 1W. (Compare: AXP and P4s -- 50W - 80W). Yes - you can theoretically run 100 or more Godsons simutaneously and they're just consuming the same power as ONE 3GHz P4.

    5. It's an MIPS chip, not X86.

    If you're able to read Chinese, check out the following URL, it gives you a much clearer idea about the chip

    http://www.blxcpu.com/

    and,
    Merry X'mas :)

  • VIA should sell China their processor! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Newer Guy ( 520108 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @07:01AM (#4951166)
    It would insure that China be f**krd up for the next 30 years...

  • Incompatible is a feature! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ONOIML8 ( 23262 ) on Tuesday December 24, 2002 @08:03AM (#4951282) Homepage
    "the potential things that could go wrong with designing a CPU are, such as software incompatibilities"

    In the free market that would be a valid concern. China is not a free market.

    If you have a processor that is incompatible with everyone else you do have to develop your own software to go with it. True. But you also prevent the dependence upon western software. In a place like China they can force that issue.

    That helps them keep the west out. In a communist society (yes folks they are communist and yes, that does run counter to the way we live) they view that as a good thing.

    When these processors are used in thier defensive and offensive military systems, and THEY WILL BE USED THAT WAY, it will be that much harder for us to counter them. There will be a new niche in the west for geeks who understand the Dragon so that we understand their exact capabilities and combat them.

    So software incompatibilities could work for them rather than against.

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