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Hardware

Dashboard Linux - 1 Year Later 109

Posted by michael from the how-to-raise-your-insurance-rates dept.
bergeron76 writes "It's been just over a year since the DashPC/Dashboard Linux project initially got jump started. Since then, the project has grown by an order of magnitude. The initial codebase has been released on freshmeat and sourceforge, and we're working with several other developers on integrating projects such as Linux GPS Navigation, wardrive mapping, and ODBII automobile interfacing. The potential is endless, considering just a couple of recent news headlines, and how we'd love to eventually bring them to both new and existing automobiles."
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Dashboard Linux - 1 Year Later More

Dashboard Linux - 1 Year Later

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  • Yay. (Score:5, Funny)

    by The Turd Report ( 527733 ) <the_turd_report@hotmail.com> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @05:53PM (#4911236) Homepage Journal
    Now, not only do I get to try and dodge all the morons with their cell phones and in-dash dvd players. Now, I have to avoid people compiling their kernels on the road. Sheesh.
    • Now, not only do I get to try and dodge all the morons with their cell phones and in-dash dvd players. Now, I have to avoid people compiling their kernels on the road. Sheesh.

      Nothing to worry about! Everyone knows Linux machines never crash!

      -JDF

      • Everyone knows Linux machines never crash!

        But you know that some smart-ass kernel hacker will put "eng1 on fire!" in the code somewhere.

  • file under.... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Cnik70 ( 571147 )
    "is this trip really necessary" interesting idea.... but a bit much???
  • ...but where is the hula hoop girl screensaver.
    Please, no "where's the pr0n screensaver" replies :) That's for version 3.0
  • I wouldn't be surprised that down the road some major car manufacturers start using this open source code for onboard computer systems. It would save them money, help create a standard for onboard computers and probably bring about a new revolution in the modern society(ok, a bit of hyperbole).

    • Re: When will the Corporate Dashboard linux come? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by interiot ( 50685 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @06:21PM (#4911493) Homepage
      I doubt that mobile computers will be very standardized, apart from having 2 or 3 computer vendors who produce 2 or 3 different standards for all car manufacturers. Car-computers will be nearly as compact as laptops, but since they'll be so integrated into the car (eg. they may be on the car's CAN network, may talk directly to the ECU, and have varying proprietary interfaces to varying I/O devices embeded into the console) that it will take quite a while to stndardize, if ever.
      • Shhhh, They are already doing it. Standards ARE being made. And it is not just some mom-and-pop company either. Rather, it is a lot of well known companies and automotive manufacturers. I'll give ya a hint. The messaging between devices will be ASN.1 encoded. More to come. Perhaps....
    • I wouldn't be surprised that down the road some major car manufacturers start using this open source code for onboard computer systems. It would save them money, help create a standard for onboard computers and probably bring about a new revolution in the modern society(ok, a bit of hyperbole).

      Your points are valid, but what if there was some bug in some module of the enormous body of code that could not be produced in only the rarest of circumstances, causing the car to explode (or something catastrophic to that effect)?

      Who would be held accountable if it were open-source?
      • Who would be held accountable if it were open-source?

        The manufacturer is accountable. After all, it is Open Source, so if it doesn't work right, the manufacturer had their chance to fix it...

        Only in closed source Operating Systems can anyone blame the company that made the OS.
      • Protection from catastrophic software bugs is of great concern whenever you are dealing with human trust in computing machines.

        I think big changes are coming in the auto manufacturing process.

        Here is why:

        There are more man hours spent in cars than airplanes.

        Hardware is basically free. You can get a very powerfull Linux box for under $800.

        Population growth, more cars, trucks, etc on the road means more accidents.

        Auto manufacturers will find it difficult to be able to argue that their cars are safe when they go to a pure drive-by-wire chassis (Audi).

        Eventually you will see a regulatory body for the auto industry that has the same role as the FAA/JAA with planes.

        This agency will require manufacturers to certify their hardware and software development efforts in the same manner as the FAA/JAA.

        The avionics hardware and software guidelines are called DO-160 (environmental), DO 178B (software) and DO-254 (complex hardware), and are published by the RTCA.

        This process of certification for the "auto-onics" will be present to ensure that the car is safe, and can be sold with limited risk to the passengers.

        This is especially important any time you get into a situation when you are talking about cars driving themselves. Which I have no doubt they will be able to do.

        Discussions regarding the certification process of open source collaborative software would certainly be interesting.
      • Who would be held accountable if it were open-source?

        Who would be held accuntable if it weren't open-source?

        Answer: The company that offers a warranty. If you sell it, some states have an implied warranty...others do not.

        Crossover -- the commercial Wine -- is warranted by Codeweavers.

  • I always wanted to do something like this, but found it a bit time consuming to blunder through getting it right. This guy has really done a bang up job. Keep up the good work! Perhaps I'll take what you've learned and go back to the drawing board.

  • slashdotted (Score:4, Informative)

    by Karamchand ( 607798 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @06:03PM (#4911333)
    If the server which hosts www.dashpc.com [dashpc.com] is obviously too slow to handle the load of the typical slashdot effect, why don't you host it at your Sourceforge webspace [sourceforge.net]?

    Just curious :)
  • But still can't handle the slashdot effect.

  • Kudos to these folks (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The Tyro ( 247333 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @06:07PM (#4911369)
    We've had computers in cars for years... they just were not the kind you typically think about. I think it's great that we are "open-sourcing" what goes on under the hood; I, for one, would love to know exactly what my engine is doing. Further, the potential to make changes (fuel/air mixture, timing, etc) in engine parameters would make such a project useful beyond even the geek factor.

    Also, newer cars have computers in them anyway... OnStar, GPS mapping, etc. Why not have an open alternative that those of us with older cars can implement? You will have to roll your own, but so what? most geeks will probably want to anyway.

    As for watching DVDs while you drive... Well... that problem might just take care of itself (hopefully with minimal collateral damage).
    • The fact that OBD-II interfaces are being opened will help relatively few people. I suspect also that most cars have few tunable parameters. It will be nice to be able to get more of the data OUT of the ECU but I don't think we'll be able to put very much IN. Also OBD-II is a pretty new thing, and most cars -- even fuel injected cars -- don't have it. This of course is self-correcting over time...

      If you want to know everything your engine is doing, you owe it to yourself to move to a complete engine management system such as those sold by haltech. I picked them because they are the first brand of ECU which I discovered would easily support the nissan crank angle sensor. (It has 90 degree marks, 0/180 degree marks, AND 1 degree marks.) There are certainly other companies making them. They generally have a serial port which you connect to a laptop (assuming you want to do things on the road) and you can adjust fuel maps and such in realtime.

      The project toward which I am schooling (at yuba college [cc.ca.us] in marysville) is creating my own EMS. I took a class in assembler, I'm going to take a few in electronics, and they have a nice big auto department so I should be able to go learn plenty about fuel systems and ignition systems. Complete engine management systems generally cost around $3000 (or more) and I want one much cheaper :)

      I think that people should be putting effort into creating a "free" (as in unencumbered) engine management system design for cars. I am not planning to do this however, I want to produce a commercial venture and hardware is not software! However if I do successfully complete this project before I get bored with it then I intend the source to at least be open if not free.

      • Uhh, most vehicles that are produced currently and in the past 10 or so years have an ODB-II computer. This is an awsome project, but is unfortunatly behind the curve. CAN (Controlled Area Network) computers are here to stay [motor.com]. That's not to say that it can't be hacked in at a later date, but currently, it's usefulness is going to be going downhill from here on out. Faster now that cars are (being treated as) a disposable commodity. :(
        • As your sibling comment says, everything since 1996. Also a few before that. But most of the cars we(people who are not rich) want to hack to extremes are older - they're cheaper.

          The article you linked is interesting, I hadn't heard about CAN. It sounds interesting, though not all that interesting since they say it's still not all it could be. Then again if the sensors were more intelligent I'm sure it would be plenty to do basically all your diagnostics with.

          OBD-II is, I'm sure, sufficient for what most people want to do on their dashboards. But as I said, most of the cars which are interesting from a hacking standpoint, the cheap powerhouses, don't have even OBD-II, let alone will they have CAN.

          • OBD-II is, I'm sure, sufficient for what most people want to do on their dashboards. But as I said, most of the cars which are interesting from a hacking standpoint, the cheap powerhouses, don't have even OBD-II, let alone will they have CAN.

            If we were about 5 years earlier, I would agree with this, but the Import tuner scene is really coming on strong, and computers control all of their fuel injection systems. This also goes for the current US domestic sports cars (Corvette, Mustang, formerly the Firebird/Camero (RIP)). These are mostly driven (currently) by ODBII. The Toyota Supra (RIP) is one of the most tuneable machines made in the past decade (IMO), and can be turned into a monster HP machine without a tonne of work (it's amazing what you can force feed that 3 litre engine without it complaining). Dittoes with the Nissan Skyline, which we (unfortunatly) don't have in the US from Nissan. (Yes, I know that there is an importer, and there are ways to get it. Don't flame me for it.)

            One of the cool things about having something like this is the lack of dependance on a proprietary computer that has a huge price tag for auto repair shoppes. I work with one currently, and they gave $5k US for their current diag box. Fortunatly, they got one that was current enough that it will be able to read CAN devices with only a firmware update (I believe that the cost of this is a couple of hundred as well, however), and won't need to purchase an interpreter box (which does exist, also a couple of hundred, by my understanding), or replacing the unit altogether.

            Another is being able to adjust feul mix with the flip of a switch. Need more juice when you force feed the unit heavily. :)

            My nickel ($.02, adj. for inflation)
            • If we're talking Nissan, then we have to mention the 240SX which is extremely inexpensive - Well, the early model (S13) is - But no OBD-II on most of those. It's also necessary to mention a bunch of Hondas from the 1980s, some of which predate OBD-II entirely. I would assume that there's a number of CRXs which are not OBD-II but I don't know for sure. The old celicas are starting to be interesting to people from a tuning standpoint, and plenty of those aren't even fuel injected :) People are ricing and tuning EVERYTHING these days it seems.

              P.S. The Skyline doesn't count, it costs too much in the US due to the low volume and the significant (one assumes) amount of money motorex invested in legalizing them over here. Sweet ride, but I'm more excited about the Lancer Evo VII which all the car mags insist is coming here for 2003 at (they claim) 250hp. Not as much as the JDM version, but more than (say) an Impreza WRX. And as goofy as the Evo looks, the headlights on the WRX just make me laugh. It looks like a neon porked a sunfire and that was the result.

              I maintain that what the world REALLY needs is an open/free engine management system using inexpensive off the shelf components which are familiar to the majority of people capable of working with such systems. I would suggest some kind of motorola processor that would give way more cycles than you could possibly need and enough I/O to control TWO engines, that way you could do any damn thing you wanted to with it. The hardware couldn't possibly cost any more than $500 and that would be a dramatic bargain as that costs less than modifying some ECUs for chipping.

      • Well, *all* vehicles sold in the US after the 1996 model year are federally [nsxprime.com] mandated [aol.com] to have OBDII. It's true that few of the interfaces have tunable parameters, but the interface is there, and can be read from. Yes, manufacturer-proprietary interfaces for setting parameters are causing problems in the field of aftermarket OBDII software, but it certainly exists [obddiagnostics.com] in many [obdii.com] forms [im-technology.com].

        Plus, there are certainly other EMS's available for less than the $3000 range, such as the Haltech [haltech.com], Microtech [thedynoshop.com], and even the Megasquirt [bgsoflex.com], which, while not unencumbered, has at least source and schematics available. It's just not to be used commercially without authorization. While I'd welcome a Free EMS, it's probably better to add your skillset to the DIY-EFI [diy-efi.org] group, as they're already working on this.
    • I, for one, would love to know exactly what my engine is doing. Further, the potential to make changes (fuel/air mixture, timing, etc) in engine parameters would make such a project useful beyond even the geek factor.
      You have no idea! I worked for GM back in the day (1973-1979), and one of the things I got to play with was the development hardware for their first CCC cars (Computer Controlled Carburetor). There was a black box that sat on the seat, with the computer (which normally was behind the passenger's kick panel) mounted on top. The black box was connected to the under-hood stuff, of course, and via a ribbon cable to a heads-up display that sat on the dash. It had LED displays and toggle switches so you could see/change various parameters. We could get those cars to idle smoothly at insanely low RPMs (did I mention they adjusted idle speed, too? little motors moving the throttle stop), but with those settings they didn't run well unless you really eeeeassed the throttle open. With those boxes you could do anything you wanted. Man, I wanted to score one for myself so badly it hurt, but they were locked down tighter than the Crown Jewels (if any got out, they'd be liable to the EPA!).

      It was in those days that I learned a bit of a secret: The computers have a "map" of the various sensor inputs -- rpm, temperature (air & water), vacuum, throttle, etc.) At any point on this multi-dimentional map were the values for things the computer controlled, like air/fuel ratio, timing, etc. They knew the "path" the EPA tests took over this map, and adjusted the settings for min. emissions/max. fuel economy while on that path; the rest of the map had settings for whatever characteristic they wanted for the car in question: performance for a Camero, drivablity for an Olds, economy for a Chevy, etc. I'm sure they still do this today. Aftermarket computer ROMs [rpmoutlet.com] are using the same trick.

      • Ahh, if you thought the older computer carb stuff was cool, you should really look into what's being done with modern aftermarket EMS'es and EFI. For example, the MoTEC [motec.com.au] can do everything from traction control to programmable boost control by gear, load level, and speed.

        It's possible to do the sort of stuff you're talking about with a modern injection system and something like the S-AFC [apexi-usa.com] or eManage [greddy.com] piggyback computers.

        If you were doing car/computer geeking back that far, you might well have *lots* of fun with what it's possible to do now. Drop by the DIY-EFI [diy-efi.org] site and check out the work in progress.
      • Actually they don't do that these days. *Very* large fines now. I work for Ford, and I've coincidentally just been to a lecture about this.

        There's a concept called a "defeat device", which is anything used to make the car's emissions behave differently in normal driving to how they would do under the EPA standard cycles. Anything can be a "defeat device", from a switch to a black box to a control algorithm to a lookup table to a single variable.

        EPA test cars on a standard cycle. However, they are also allowed to just take this thing for a drive and see how it behaves, and if it looks wrong then they can do you - particular problems are events (like step-changes) happening just outside the EPA cycles. It is then down to the manufacturer to prove 100% that the reason for that step-change in emissions just outside the EPA cycle is due to a fundamental, can't-get-round feature of the engine, and not due to a defeat device. If you can't prove that 100%, you're assumed guilty and fined.

        The essential thing to get here is the "guilty until proven innocent" bit. Auto manufacturers have to disclose to the EPA every part of their strategies which can affect emissions, and show that if emissions are increased at any point, this is either due to stopping the engine melting down or due to an essential driver safety requirement (foot-to-floor is a classic - you can give out more emissions here, bcos it's unsafe for the driver not to have torque when they're trying to overtake). If the EPA doesn't think you're right about your decisions, they can stop you selling the car. And if you don't disclose something which affects emissions, you're 100% screwed.

        So far, fines have been relatively small, $100 million max. Toyota however are currently fighting a case which, if they lose, will cost them in the order of billions of dollars. Bad news...

        Grab.
    • Alot of people seem to want to know how do this. It is possible using a on-board standard known as OBD-II (OnBoard Diagnostics rev. 2). Despite what you think, all cars past year 1996 are fully OBD-II compliant (by law), so there are standards in automobiles (that are often government sanctioned). Using OBD-II you can connect a PC to a car and get all sorts of useful information from the car's internal computer (mostly related to diagnostic problems, but stuff like RPMs and fuel can be gotten as well, using a system like this you could have your car automatically look for a gas station via GPS when the fuel is low, etc.). There is even open-source software for Linux [sourceforge.net], that aids the task.

    • As for watching DVDs while you drive... Well... that problem might just take care of itself (hopefully with minimal collateral damage).

      Yeah.. that movie sucked.

    • I, for one, would love to know exactly what my engine is doing.


      You might want to consider what Arthur Dent [tun.co.uk] discovered when he learned birdspeak...


      Although I do think it would be cool for the first five minutes.

      I have considered that an EEC per cylinder for a multi-port injection engine might improve efficiency. And Smokey's trick of removing all belts from the engine, and running everything from it's own electric motor. He claimed great HP gain in his book "Smokey's Power Secrets". He ran his alternator from a fan sticking out of the hood.

  • One guy's setup (Score:4, Informative)

    by interiot ( 50685 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @06:11PM (#4911408) Homepage
    Is this just one guy's setup, or is it designed to be compatible across many different setups? There are a lot of different input methods (wireless keyboard, mouse [sourceforge.net], joystick [thumbscript.com], twiddler, touch-screen), lots of different output devices (sound only w/ text-to-speech, sound with screen, NTSC TV, true VGA, a non-standard LCD screen), several different ways to control powerup/powerdown (eg. tell the inverter to turn off after finishing powerdown, wake on LAN/802.11b, ability to tell the car to auto-start to recharge the battery). A set of software that supports a variety of these would be truly valuable and I'd gladly contribute, but this looks like it's just one guy's particular setup.

    • Re:One guy's setup (Score:2, Informative)

      by Sarek ( 20380 )
      Actually dashpc.com is his setup but we have a yahoo group and forum for this getting input from tons of people. Also there are pictures and links to other people's sites about this. Some of them use the dashpc code others use MS Windows or their own X11 interface.
      We're trying to get the dashpc code to work with all kinds of configurations. As soon as things start calming down here at my work I'll be contributing to the coding.
      A few of the guys on the list are doing circuit design for startup/shutdown of the pc.

      I've yet to see any bashing for using something else. Everything has been a calm debate weighing the different pros/cons of hardware/software setups. We're really trying to make something that will work for everyone I feel.

      --Sarek

  • Why stop with ICE/GPS? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Handpaper ( 566373 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @06:14PM (#4911426)
    Even a 500MHz cpu could do all this and run the ignition/injection system used to operate the engine.

    Just think - downloadable map upgrades, no more hardware 'chipping', and best of all...

    You do not have enough permissions to run engine_init
    Locking all doors...
    Done
    Automated police call activated
    You're nicked sonny...

    • Even a 500MHz cpu could do all this and run the ignition/injection system used to operate the engine.

      $ Ignition key detected.
      $ Accelerator angle is 0 zegrees. Adjusting fuel injection rate...
      INTERRUPT HANDLER: Division by zero error. Trying to recover...
      $ New fuel injection rate 2147483647 gallons per second.
      $ Air intake insufficient. Connecting turbo charger to oxygen tanks...
      $ Done.
      $ Adjusting valves...
      $ Done.
      $ Fuel mix oxygenation below nominal but within acceptable parameters.
      $ Stand by for ignition...
      WHOOOSHHH!
    • Actually, the engine control should be a dedicated realtime system. As the other response humorously indicated, interrupt handling is a bad thing with time-dependent outputs, especially those that can blow up or kill people when they fail. The ideal way is to have an overall car processor that handles most other things, and a relatively simple embedded system doung the EMS work.
      • Actually, most realtime systems do use interrupts. They're the best way of getting multi-rate processing done - for instance, there's no need to check the ambient air temperature faster than maybe every 100ms, bcos it doesn't change that fast, but calculations of engine fuelling required need to be done at the millisecond kind of timing. To do this, you split your code into stuff running at separate task rates. Interrupts ensure that more important tasks interrupt less important tasks. Every engine controller uses this system.

        Of course, you don't want interrupts to screw your data. To this end, your RTOS ensures that every task has a separate stack or that the lower-priority task's registers are pushed and popped during interrupts, and you have to design your code to take account of interrupts. For example, if a low-priority task sets a bit-field to zero and then fills in each bit one at a time, a high-priority task mustn't read that bit-field bcos it may read the value before the low-priority task has finished filling in all the bits. Embedded code has its own sets of challenges which you don't usually see in the desktop world.

        Incidentally, the "relatively simple" embedded system is no longer simple. In order to meet ever-tighter emissions controls and get better performance and mileage from the same engine, the processing is *seriously* complex. On my current project at work, we're currently using a 32-bit processor with floating-point support running at 32MHz (for the record, that's a pretty high-end embedded controller), and we've had to do some *serious* hacking to get our application to run in real-time at full RPM!

        Grab.
    • "Even a 500MHz cpu could do all this andrun the ignition/injection system used to operate the engine."

      Wouldn't the failure rate on a faster CPU be much higher than the processors that are currently running ignition systems?

      Intel/AMD architechture is probably not the best platform for controlling critical devices on a vehicle.

      However, it would be really cool to INTERFACE with the cars computer using an Intel/AMD based computer. I'd love to log the info from my (98 Cobra) car's EEC-V computer. Or even better, modify values that it uses such as ignition advance, leaning out the air/fuel ratio etc.

      But a auto manufacturer wouldn't want me doing those things, lean it out too much and you've got holes in your pistons. Too much ignition advance and you've got detonation as well.

      They probably wouldn't care if I logged my GPS coordinates though.
      • You can already log a whole bunch of info from the OBD-II port, and there are piggyback and standalone EMS'es that will allow you to do full tuning. You're quite right that general-purpose computers are a bad idea for EMS.
        There's even a Palm app that willl log the OBD-II information. Check my other post [slashdot.org] for a handful of links to OBD-II monitoring programs, and the free one in the article.
    • Yet another reason not to share your root password with your wife!
  • I am just glad that they are not just thinking about new cars, for this project. My car is 24 years old, and I have no plans to replace it. With the work that I have just done to it, my baby is probably good for at least another 10 years.

    Never trust a car under 20 years old.
    • Just wondering, what kind of car is it?

      Personally, I love old cars myself. I've always wanted a mopar, or one of those old Chrysler Hemis. I also like Darts with Slant Sixes, those things would last forever! They sure as hell don't make em like they used to.

      Of course I'm currently settling with a 1980 Volvo that's in better condition than most 'new' cars. Not a bad car at 18, but maybe when I'm bored and 30 I'll soup up a Barracuda or Galaxie 500.
      • IT is a BMW 320i. I am not much into raw proformance, I prefer proformance with finesse.

        I am looking for a BMW 633CSi for my next project, now that my 320i is almost fully restored.
        • Sweet, I like the old BMWs. My friend has an old BMW Bavarian which is in pretty crappy condition but I can't wait to check it out when it's fully restored.

          I'm not into raw performance. I just like the style of old mopars, they're fast enough but at the same time they're big enough to feel comfortable in (even sleep :P) I know they aren't the best at handling, but you shouldn't limit yourself to one kind of car.
          • I have owned many cars in my life, and worked as an auto detailer for several years, so if I haven't owned it, I have driven it.

            But the 60s and 70s BMWs stole my heart. To me they are the perfect mix of proformance, and style.
    • POKE 65495,0 If you know what this does, you are as old and pathetic as I am.

      I can't believe I'm saying this, but is that the clock speedup on a CoCo II?

  • Picture mirror (Score:4, Informative)

    by SoCalChris ( 573049 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @06:20PM (#4911482) Journal
    From his site...

    http://www.chrisnaimee.com/pics/pics.html [chrisnaimee.com]

    Enjoy!
    • Awesome. I was able to get the thumbnail overview on the original site as well. I was salivating for the large ones. And your "mirror" links still point back to the dashpc site. Good job.
  • DONT MIX

    Don't screw with nature. This is like trying to breed cats and dogs.
    • This is like trying to breed cats and dogs.
      God shmod, I want my monkey man!!!
      -- Bartholomew J. Simpson
    • Aw now, there's nothing like your average 120 MPH DMCA violation...

      You are going to see this a lot more in the near future. Only, it perhaps may be based on standards.

      Like using a 3G phone for the connectivity... Or Bluetoorh for device connectivity... Or a 1394b interface built directly into your car from the factory. Give it a few years ;)

  • A conversation (Score:5, Funny)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi@yahoo.cLIONom minus cat> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @06:35PM (#4911629) Journal
    "Wow. Your car sure is quiet! What kind of muffler do you have on there? I don't hear anything at all!"

    "I don't have a muffler. I just upgraded, and I couldn't get the sound to compile."

    Don't let friends drive a Bad Ms Win CE!

  • a B...... c...... of these! Imagine the possibilities!
  • The cops pull you over for overclocking!
  • I was looking at one that ran Windows CE with GPS, voice recognition, reminders, MP3, etc about 3-4 years ago. When I search for AutoPC now I just get links to the stupid clarion site that is hard to find info on and won't let you go back a page (grrrrrrrr).

    This is cool having Linux on one though. They have 802.11b wireless and all that good stuff on the Clarion one.
    • the autopc was a total piece of crap. I knw I had one. the GPS sucked. the maps for it were of horrible quality and massively lacking and downright innacurate the mp3 player was great but the hardware sucked so bad it didnt play them worth a damn. and all the other features sucked as well.. Voice recignition was lame and horrible, most Autopc owners never used it except to try and impress friends.

      the worst part was the big NASTY hardware bug I discovered and clarion never admitted to.

      Turn on the car, watch the autopc boot. turn the ignition off ,on, off, on... you now have a locked up autopc that requires a convoluted reset.

      so if you stalled your high speed clutch equipped car, you locked up your fricking car stereo.

      I have been able to reproduce this is EVERY autopc I have came across. and even embaraassed clarion at the Car audio show in 1999 in chicago by locking up the demo car's stereo.

      autopc = overpriced piece of crap . I sold mine and all it's stuff for $200.00 to a local teen. and I am betting the new $2500.00 Clarion Joyride is just as crappy.

  • AWESOME! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by _narf_ ( 21764 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @07:03PM (#4911883)

    They've got ODB-II support as part of the project.

    For those who don't know it's a 'standard' way to interface to the car's onboard computer that most newer (~1995+) cars support. I don't recall all the specifics right now, but there's three different flavors (sort of the physical layer) of ODB-II. It roughly (but not quite) breaks down into North American, Asian, and Eurpoean makes. (i think)

    You can easily query all kinds of things in realtime, view logs/alerts, and probably a ton more.

    I've briefly looked into this for someone who likes to tinker with cars, and I sense I'll be looking into it much more soon. :)

    • Using OBD-II you can literally pull everything you'd ever need from the car's internal computer. Literally hundreds of different values. Everything to smart GPS and "car benchmarking utilities" can be made to utilize OBD-II. My riced out Escalate got over 11,045 AutoMarks, woohoo!
      • You can squeeze a few more out if you slap 'Type R' labels all over your ride..

        Seems to work for all the other rice burners..

        (I'd still rather have a 2.5t MB diesel panzer any day anyway.. Crumpling a Civic would barely scratch the paint.. ;)
  • "The potential is endless"? It's some really great work, but can it cure cancer? Can it get us to Alpha Centauri in 3 months? No? Well, then the possibilities aren't endless. With rhetoric like that, you seem like the vendor of the "Universal Business Adapter" that I've seen in IBM commercials lately. The suits ask "Does it work in Europe?", and the vendor says "You'd need an adapter". Oops.
    • "The potential is endless"? It's some really great work, but can it cure cancer? Can it get us to Alpha Centauri in 3 months? No? Well, then the possibilities aren't endless.

      Wrong! What you mean to say is that the possibilities aren't limitless. However they (can be) endless. You've enumerated limitations, not termination points. As an analogy, the set of integers is limited (doesn't include pi, e, or 1/2), but still endless. Not particularly formal jargon but, well, neither is the statement with which you quibble :)

    • You seem to not have a firm grasp of mathematics.

      Endless could be read as "infinite."

      There are an infinite number of real numbers between 0 and 1. That set doesn't include 2 or 3. But, it's still endless.

      Infinite is not the same as all-encompassing.

      There are infinite counting numbers (integers >= 1), but they don't include the negatives or 0, but they are still endless.

      Anyway, you can see my point. Just because you can name two or three things that our not in a given set, doesn't make that set finite.

      To take it even further. thet set of all possible numbers is also not all-encompassing. It doesn't include the letter 'A'. So, it's still a matter of domain. The possibilities can only be infinite, or endless, within their domain.

      Justin Dubs
  • Remember those old games that had the "boss key"? Can we get a "cop key?" I.e. you're being pulled over, and in a split second you can switch away from the pr0n you were watching while driving to an innocuous looking map readout.

  • Another option (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SCHecklerX ( 229973 ) <greg@gksnetworks.com> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @08:03PM (#4912327) Homepage
    I've found that the toshiba libretto (I have a 110CT) fits perfectly right above my gearshift on my mazda protege (after creating a shelf using a couple of pieces of pvc pipe and some scrap plastic for a mount in the cup holder). I use it mostly for mp3, but also use it for maps and as a normal laptop at home with the wireless network (and I can check mail from the car as I pull in...cool :). While in the car it also functions as a wireless network stumbler, using kismet, and when bored in heavy traffic, hey, I can view my pr0n collection ;)

    Since I have a full screen and keyboard, there was no need for any type of special hardware hacks or custom software. I can use xmms as is. It's a really sweet setup and only cost me ~550 ($400 for the libretto on ebay, $100 for the 20 gig drive, $50 for the memory upgrade). Use keymaps in windowmaker to launch stuff and it's a great little setup.

  • many good points, one bad one.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by /Idiot\ ( 71460 ) <idiot&deepdark,net> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @08:33PM (#4912501) Homepage

    all that cool tech and they still put the steering wheel on the wrong side!

    :-)

    /me ducks

  • watch a DVD? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by yack0 ( 2832 ) <keimel@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @08:36PM (#4912517) Homepage
    Some of the folks in the DashPC list have systems that will play DVD's, but they also have screens in the back for the passengers. Not that it'd be impossible to put the DVD up to the front monitor, but they don't, as an admitted practice, do it.

    Several people have related stories of being pulled over for a 'TV within view of the driver' which is illegal is LOTS of places, but then the DashPC user will show them 'no, it's navigation, and MP3, and a rear view mirror, and a coffee maker.....' and the cops are generaly intrigued by it. I don't think anyone on the list reported getting a ticket for it yet.

    Not having one myself, but knowing how I'm planning to install it, I'm learning a lot from the list. It seems that a lot of the folks have a PC in the trunk wired to a screen and controls up front, while the rest have a custom made tiny PC that fits in some hole in their car. I'm going for the latter option, which will be stored in the center console with a screen in a custom made dash panel.

    It also seems that there's been some cry out for some coders to help the project, so if you're interested, go read some archived stuff and jump into the list.

    Well, hope that helps with some more info for those that can't get to the Slashdotted site.

    j
  • ... because it's exactly the kind of thing Bill Gates thinks open source can't do. I couldn't find the exact quote, but I remember him saying that things like Tablet PC, which require collaboration between hardware and software vendors (and a lot of other logistical stuff, I imagine) wouldn't appear in the open source world. Well, I guess not.
  • I just got me a *sweet* '89 Dodge Dakota with a cap. The heat doesn't work, so I have frost inside the cab.

    The point (besides telling several other people that I have a *sweet* '89 Dodge Dakota) is that the weather is harsh around here. I doubt a standard PC case would do at all. Any ideas?
    • I think Oracle better fits your sig, really... But as to your case... You might try building it in two parts: The stuff that needs to be physically in the dashboard, and the stuff that doesn't. Bring the latter inside with you. It should generate enough heat to stay warm once it's going, so if it starts out warm, it ought to be okay. The only other problem would be maybe LCD screens cracking, depending on where you live...
    • I don't think cold will do anything bad for you. Condensation will, but in theory, the colder the better. Look at the overclocking sites. People have run computers at liquid nitrogen temperatures which is much lower than upstate NY (I'm in Wisconsin so I feel your pain--although it was 51F today). Your problem will be with the lcd. Most lcd's do not like working in cold weather. Get a remote starter and let things warm up before you get in and you will be good to go. It's the poor bastards down south who have the problem with all the heat!
  • Quoth the author: Whilst driving I concentrate only on driving (unless I'm in a drive thru) or parking lot.

    How dangerous is that? Cruising around parking lots, which tend to have more pedestrians than roadways, concetrating on the radio, cell-phone, bags of crap just bought, etc.
  • Is there any software for Linux that will do street-address mapping? That is, you can key or speak in the actual street address of your destination and get a plot.

    It looks like you need to know GPS coords to use what's available for Linux, but for GPS to be really usable in a car you need to be able to put in a street address for your destination. Has anyone tried to decode car GPS map CDs/DVDs? These are often available for purchase even without the GPS hardware, and it'd be worth it to pay $200 for the USA directions DVD and use free software imho.

    Also, anyone try to integrate the range and direction signals from a Valentine One radar detector into DashPC? ;)
  • Telephone books are like dictionaries -- if you know the answer before
    you look it up, you can eventually reaffirm what you thought you knew
    but weren't sure. But if you're searching for something you don't
    already know, your fingers could walk themselves to death.
    -- Erma Bombeck

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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