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Hardware

Bricklin on Tablet PCs 257

t482 writes "Dan Bricklin gives his first impressions of the Tablet PC. 'The most important thing to know about the Tablet PC, as far as I'm concerned so far, is that Microsoft did a great job...of naming it.' and then goes on to give a fascinating history of pen computing."
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Bricklin on Tablet PCs

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  • Question... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rew190 ( 138940 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:48PM (#4781166)
    Where exactly is the market demand for these?
    • Re:Question... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Banjonardo ( 98327 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:51PM (#4781179) Homepage
      Me.

      Students, people attending any form of lectures, people who want to check their e-mail on the couch, people who want to cruise the web on a coffee shop (so basically the same people who want laptops).

      It's also really, really spiffy. Or maybe I'm just gullible...

      • Re:Question... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        STUDENTS?!

        Are you an idiot?

        The thing costs $2,000!

        What student would buy this instead of a PowerBook G4?

        You know, you Slashdot people really do miss out. It's like, here you are bashing Microsoft for stupid reasons. "Oh, it's just a fad." "Oh, it's going to blue screen!" "Oh, where's the market for this?" And unsurprisingly as all fuckall, your points are completely wrong but what's worse is that you miss the biggest, most obvious target -- the tablet PC is $2,000 more than anybody would ever pay for it.

        Oh well. Have fun bitching about M$ and blue screens that anybody with half a brain never has a problem with and crap while the company walks all over you as you miss the primary opportunity to attain victory because you're too busy being morons to notice.
        • Re:Question... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by EvanED ( 569694 ) <evaned@noSpam.gmail.com> on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:47PM (#4781364)
          >>What student would buy this instead of a PowerBook G4?

          Maybe because it's a tablet PC. I'm not sure about you, but I couldn't type notes. I need to write them. Which means that the G4's out.

          >>the tablet PC is $2,000 more than anybody would ever pay for it.

          Of course, I could have said the same thing about ENIAC: it was $450,000 more than anyone would pay. And I'd be wrong. Because there were people (the gov't) who built it. There are people who will buy the tablet PC because there's nothing else like it on the market, at least that I'm aware of. And the people who can afford it will spur development of more models that won't be expensive.
          • Re:Question... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <slashdot@keir[ ]ad.org ['ste' in gap]> on Friday November 29, 2002 @05:14PM (#4781467)
            Why the hell couldn't you type notes? Even a very crappy touch typist (like 50-60 WPM) can type much faster than you can write or print. Typing for an hour is also alot easier on your hand than writing with a pen for an hour.
            • Re:Question... (Score:5, Interesting)

              by EvanED ( 569694 ) <evaned@noSpam.gmail.com> on Friday November 29, 2002 @05:22PM (#4781501)
              If you saw my notes you'd see. I draw arrows to related stuff, to reorganize, etc.; draw pictures and stuff like mathematical symbols (let's see you type an integral or parital derivative faster than I can write one) and the like.
        • Re:Question... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by DuSTman31 ( 578936 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @05:25PM (#4781508)

          The thing about prices is that they change.

          The primary market for these things seems to be for people who need to be able to record scribbles in a lecture or meeting. This is probably not a concept that needs huge amounts of computing power. People's buying decision will probably me made not on computing power, but mainly on price.

          The main consequence of this is that the prices of the most popular models will go down with competition, not up with increased specs.

          I agree it's not the sort of thing one would choose as a main machine, but as a second device for specific tasks, and that £2000 may be a bit much for a machine for this role, but the price they'll be in two years time probably won't be.

    • Re:Question... (Score:5, Informative)

      by TheAncientHacker ( 222131 ) <TheAncientHacker&hotmail,com> on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:51PM (#4781180)
      Anybody who takes notes in meetings, anybody who needs to use a computer without a counter to put it down on. I know I'm seriously in lust.
      • It is called paper. You should look into is sometime. It is great for taking notes!
        • by EvanED ( 569694 ) <evaned@noSpam.gmail.com> on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:50PM (#4781370)
          If I have five notebooks full of notes, can I pull up an application that will search through them in a minute or two to find a particular fact that you want?
          • Not to be cynical here, but if you have "five notebook" full of notes in electronic format, do you still think you can find it?

            I use both a notebook and paper notes. And trying to find anything older than 3 months is a pain in the arse...
            • by SpectreGadget ( 465507 ) <jim&harryfamily,com> on Friday November 29, 2002 @05:26PM (#4781513) Homepage
              Mod me down if you will, but...

              The Tablet PC's handwriting recognition is quite good and can recognize both my print and my cursive). What's better is you can leave your notes in digital ink format and the program converts and indexes the text in the background. Then when you need to find something, you do a search, and it will bring up the page(s) of your handwritten notes that match your search criteria. That is one of the powerful things about the Tablet. If I'm not mistaken, there is no Linux application that can do that. For now, at least.

              For all the M$ bashing that goes on here at /. it's amazing how many of the good Linux applications (that are touted here on /.) look just like their M$ counterparts.
              • I was assuming that the notes would be translated to text. And I was assuming that you could search the notes. But if you have any amount of data, searching for the right note is like searching for a needle in the haystack.

                The reason why I find this type of search difficult is because most notes are part of a larger group of notes. And if you do a search on this larger group you will get most documents in the group. Result, you do not find your note.... Or at least you need to investigate each note and figure out which one you want. I do the exact same thing with notepads....
                • The reason why I find this type of search difficult is because most notes are part of a larger group of notes. And if you do a search on this larger group you will get most documents in the group.

                  I'm sorry, but to me it seems that results like that indicate that you haven't refined your search terms well enough, and if you can't seem to refine any better then it sounds like you're not sure what you're looking for. These are problems not with the medium the notes are in, but with the person doing the searching.
      • Re:Question... (Score:2, Interesting)

        Also, check out Penny Arcade [penny-arcade.com] for their view of how TabletPCs make sketching the comic easier.
    • Hehe, not me... There's a reason why I hardly ever write by hand anymore. Handwriting is a pain.

      But if I get a small PDA-gadget with lots of stuff, and has completely different text-entry UIs (speech recognition, dasher [cam.ac.uk]with some pointing device), then I'll consider it.

    • Artists [penny-arcade.com] (Scroll to third section)
    • Re:Question... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by GeckoFood ( 585211 ) <[geckofood] [at] [gmail.com]> on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:04PM (#4781232) Journal
      For those of us whose employers do business in the retail sector, one application for these is a spiffy "clipboard" for the sales personnel, so that they can quickly bring up information about products and whatnot without dashing to a PC somewhere, or digging out a catalog, etc. If they are set up right, they can be a sort of instant catalog for the sales floor, especially since the weight of said systems is low enough to allow them to be carried all over the sales floor. Add in wireless connectivity, and you have a very convenient way to look up inventory data.
    • Re:Question... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:05PM (#4781235)
      "Where exactly is the market demand for these?"

      Me^3.

      - I'm an artist. I use a tablet to draw with right now. The ability to draw right on the screen would totally rock. Right now Wacom sells LCD tablets that plug into your VGA port, but they're in the $3,500 range.

      - I attend lots of meetings and drag a laptop around with me. I'd prefer a TabletPC so I can jot sketches along with notes. Right now I use paper and a scanner to do this, I'd like to skip the paper step.

      - I wouldn't mind having a Tablet PC around the house. The tablet form factor is much easier to tote around than the 'laptop-that-doesn't-really-sit-well-on-your-lap' approach.

      I don't know if I represent a 'whole big market' or not, but I can tell you that office-life would be easier with them. I'm certain these will start appearing in my office within the next 12 months.
      • That wouldn't be "Me^3". That would be "Me*3".
        Wait, you're an artist. That explains it ;) /playful_troll
      • AN artsy guy I work with sez that the current res on the ms xp tablets isn't high enough for real art work. This was on the basis of just one or two models we played with though.

        • "AN artsy guy I work with sez that the current res on the ms xp tablets isn't high enough for real art work. This was on the basis of just one or two models we played with though."

          I couldn't say without telling you. I think the worst case scenario is that I can at least do rough sketches to refine later. I've done sketchwork on my PocketPC before. I want more pixels to play with now. :)

          Thanks for the heads up, though.
    • Re:Question... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by puto ( 533470 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:05PM (#4781236) Homepage
      Hospitals, medical offices.

      Any records that docs might need instead of putting the chart on the door, each doc gets his own and you can send it his patient list, their chart, all the details, ASAP. No need for records to send up the chart. No need for stationary PC.

      A Doc could have all his info point and click.

      Puto
      • Re:Question... (Score:3, Insightful)

        Actually, that wouldn't be such a great idea, considering the fact the tablet PCs would need to remain updated. How would you ask? I'm pretty sure the majority of people on here would reply to my question with "wireless netwworking". However, do remember these are hospitals we are talking about and you're not even allowed to carry regular mobile phones around due to interference with possibly sensitive equipment. (at least not here in The Netherlands) Do you think they'd allow the building to be saturated with possible harmful wireless transmission?

        • Actually, that wouldn't be such a great idea, considering the fact the tablet PCs would need to remain updated. How would you ask? I'm pretty sure the majority of people on here would reply to my question with "wireless netwworking". However, do remember these are hospitals we are talking about and you're not even allowed to carry regular mobile phones around due to interference with possibly sensitive equipment. (at least not here in The Netherlands) Do you think they'd allow the building to be saturated with possible harmful wireless transmission?
          Actually, at the hospitals I've worked at, they already have wireless networks saturating the airways. Some of them still won't let you use your cell phone, but that prohibition seems to be falling by the wayside as well.
        • Actually if they could grab some end of the spectrum that would not interfere with the the machines in the hospital(and it wouldnt be that hard to custom tune a frequency) if you wanted to go the wireless route.

          But they could all have an rj45 dongle that they could plug in from room to room. That would lower the cost of having a pc in each room. 3 foot patch cable in the pocket. Doctors would love this cause the charts would always be ready. No excuses and the nurses could be doing important stuff.

          Step further is sync it like a pda at the nurses station. By the time the patient is in the room you know who he is so the info will be shunted to the box.

          Easy solutions if you don't think to hard about them.

          I have been doing medical IT for awhile now, 6+ years, and it for about 12 i suppose, and best thing is the problems and solving them. There is always a solution.

          Puto
    • Re:Question... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kh0ng ( 594312 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:11PM (#4781253)
      There was a roadshow of the tablet on our university some days ago. They said the Tablet-PC would open "new markets", since people who usually avoid using computers because of the mouse (Have you ever tried to teach it to you mother? :-) now have a more "natural" way of interfacing with it - the pen. It's also more practical for carrying around than a laptop, since you can use hold it e.g. in your left arm and use the right hand to interface with it.

      They said one of the design goals was that it should be able to do everything that a normal pen-and-pad method can do. That includes the use-with-one-hand from above, but also hot-plugging (so you can always take it out of the docking station and run away...). Some of them can be used as a laptop as well, simply by turning the display around.

      They were pretty nice, and remindet me of the Pads they use in startreck. There are, however, still some useability-problems. The resolution of the EM-Sampler that checks for the pen is not very good at the edges, resulting in a "shaking" mouse cursor when holding the pen still. Another one is the right mouse button - the ones I held in my hands thought you want to press the right button if you didn't move the pen for some time. This resulted in context-menus that popped up when writing slow. Anotherone is the problem of your hand that overlapps some part of the screen when using the pen. Its annoying if menues keep opening right under your hand, so you have to move it away again to see whats on the screen.

      The text recognition was nice, but they mentioned a error-rate of 10-15%, so it's not really very useful, especially when writing fast. My opinion is that it's nice, but still needs some time to get "mature" and really useable.

    • Re:Question... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Zeinfeld ( 263942 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:17PM (#4781277) Homepage
      Where exactly is the market demand for these?

      If they work really well, huge. If they only sorta work, almost none.

      It is exactly the sort of situation where Microsoft has been able to clean up by making a previously obscure technology mainstream.

      Case in point was powerpoint. I used electronic slides back in the early days when you printed them out onto acetate one a $9000 printer. After Microsoft bundled Powerpoint into Office manufacturers started to make decent LCD projector displays (not the tatty things you stuck on to of an overhead projector).

      The idea of tablet PC is not new, but until now nobody has been able to make it mainstream.

      I strongly suspect that the problems of tablet resolution will be quickly sorted out. They may also be the catalyst for higher resolution displays - resolution as in dots per inch, not dots per screen. There are very few screens with 100dpi resolution, to make handwriting look good you need about 200dpi minimum.

      I suspect that the killer app for these PCs is to have something you can surf the web on while watching tv. After that, taking notes in a meeting.

      I have also seen them used in a presentation, they are pretty impressive used this way, you can draw on the slides to direct attention to one part or another.

      It should not take that much to get Linux up on one of the devices, but making the result work well is likely to be a lot of work.

      Another issue that is somewhat odd is that there does not appear to be an IBM tablet PC yet. Somewhat odd when you consider that IBM has been plugging this idea as assiduously as Gates.

      • Oddly enough, Linux might have a real shot in the "larger pda/tablet market." There are stories out there about IBM's Meta Pad [globetechnology.com], as well reports of an AMD/China/Alchemy Semiconductor [theinquirer.net] type thing... both situations where MS need not apply.

        Even the Lindows guy [lindows.com] is talking about $500 tablets... though he's thinking handwriting recognition isn't needed.

        I think tablets look cool, and do have applications in medical/retail/industrial settings, but not for $2,000, not yet. Hoping Midori or whatever, plus other chip options, besides full-fledged Pentiums can get the cost down.
    • Areas that you've never even though of...

      Tablet pc + wifi + barcode scanner + rugged outer shell == new possibilities for information access.

      I would give you a great, specific example, but I don't want potential competitors to get wind.
    • Where was the market demand for the Apple II?

      Sometimes letting its developers decide that something is cool and should be made into a product is the worst decision a company can make. Sometimes it works out, and creates a new category of product that nobody imagined before. I can't really begin to guess which one this is going to be, except maybe noting that I don't want one. I also thought Netscape Navigator 1.0 was a stupid product, and that Netscape is doomed if it thinks it can make money on it.
    • Re:Question... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by brianerst ( 549609 )
      Hey, a /. subject I can actually intelligently contribute to... what a novelty. >=-)

      For 9 years (from 91-2000), I was the lead developer of the Chicago Board of Trade's Order Routing System, which allows clerks in the phone booths ringing the trading floor to send orders into the pit (and for pit clerks to send fill information back out) via pen-based interfaces. COMET (the booth device) and Electronic Clerk (the pit device) both have used various incarnations of the Microsoft Windows For Pen Computing platform.

      This is definitely an environment that needs pen-based input. The booths and pits are UNBELIEVABLE space constrained, and adding PCs with keyboards was just not an option. At the beginning of the project, there wasn't any handheld hardware to speak of (although the CBOT had partnered up with Sharp(?) for some custom handheld tech for another project), and the first wave of tablets were just coming out. Given the severe amount of jostling going on in these trading pits, handhelds had some big downsides as well. We ended up mounting devices to the railings of the pits (or flush mounted them into the desktops for the booth clerks). We evaluated both PenWindows and Go (I liked Go, but we knew they were going to fail in the marketplace) and used a whole bunch of different devices. Dauphin (sweet tech, lousy company), GRiDs, NEC VersaPads, Amitys and others in the beginning, eventually migrating to Fujitsu Stylistics (best of a bad bunch). We got to learn all sorts of things about digitizers (like the active digitizers with battery-powered pens would interfere with each other if mounted too closely, while tethered pens put out enough juice that if you held one in your left hand, you could use your right index finger as an input device).

      Like many (most?) Microsoft products, the initial version of PenWindows was rushed out to kill a competitor, and then they sat on the tech for years before killing it. The last "release" of PenWindows was on Win95 (we eventually ended up just copying the Pen DLLs to Win98 when Win95 hardware stopped being produced). The functionality of PenWindows was crap - I ended up writing a number of custom controls that wrapped the basic BEDIT controls so we could have good-looking displays.

      When they finally pulled the plug on Pen development altogether, CBOT started migrating to CIC's PenX controls for Win2000. (I left around this time - but they've dragged me back for some part-time consulting to help with the latest release). They've spent 1 1/2 years migrating to Win2000 + PenX, only to see Microsoft obsolete them just weeks before the big new release.

      All that said, given an appropriately pen-centric application (minimizing data entry and screen movement are really important in pen-app design), a well-written pen app is amazingly productive. A booth clerk who has used the COMET app for a while can easily enter orders in under 2 seconds, while a pit clerk can manage thousands of orders from dozens of sources very easily. I was always amazed at how fast these guys worked - I was probably the only developer who could approach their speed, and they'd clean my clock anyday. Nothing like having responsibility for orders worth tens of millions of dollars to help focus the mind...

    • Who typically carry 10-40lbs of books around campus. As more and more textbooks are available on CD, this will enable folks to carry just a sinlge 2-4lb tablet with their text CD/DVDs.

      Plus the ability to digitize notes, and later then search, edit, catagorize and store the notes, well when I was a science student I would have loved to have that ability (esp. areas like science & engineering where diagrams and drawings are frequently part of the notes, not so nice to do on a laptop, not to mention 100 students writing is much less distracting than 100 students typing).

      I'd say numerous smaller markets exist as well in sales, medicine, presentors, etc., basically anywhere folks now use paper notepads or folders of similar size.

      It also seems to me that with a docking station adding more functionality (2nd monitor, key board, etc.) one could see many laptops replaced by dockable tablets.

      I know I am going to be looking at a few of these the next time I get authorized to get more laptops at work, if they are capable enough to edit presentations/present with, I'd love one!
  • But did he trademark 'Tablet' the way he trademarked 'bookshelf' ?

    We all know the answer to that one...

  • by dconder ( 79190 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:51PM (#4781177) Homepage

    The problem with tablet PCs right now is the battery life. The whole advantage of a tablet PC is it lets you use it on the go, but if you have to plug in every two hours to recharge the batteries, that defeats the purpose.

    I think there are some applications for tablet PCs now, hospitals, etc., but in order for them to reach mainstream-acceptance, they need to tackle the power/battery issue.
  • by sl inferis ( 627411 ) <tannerwashere@att.net> on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:51PM (#4781182)
    Tablet PC isn't a new idea is it? Didn't Moses have the first tablet PC? The only application it ran was TenCommandments(R)
  • Wow! (Score:4, Funny)

    by mao che minh ( 611166 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:53PM (#4781186) Journal
    Dan Bricklin! I'm gonna run right out and buy one now, because Dan Bricklin reviewed it!!
  • by dagg ( 153577 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:54PM (#4781189) Journal

    That's why the media loves them. And that's why I think I would love it. I don't like my PDA because the screen is too small. I don't like to surf the net on my phone because the screen is too small. I want something that is about the size of a piece of paper. Microsoft did not invent it... but they will get the word out (the bastards).

    --
    • .. the downside: the machine is too big to luggage around all day for 'just in case', it wont fit into a gba belt bag like zaurus does, and it misses the keyboard of the zaurus(which, with ssh, is powerful, and really, having folded keyboard like that on the tablet pc wouldnt weight too much and it costs way tooo much already, a keyboard that had half of the keyboard on each side, and was thumb operable, could do great on these tablet pc's). ..right tool to the job at hand yadda yadda yadda..

      and anyways.. the screensize being too small physically doesnt hurt that much if it has enough resolution/smart quirks to display the information, for example, web browsing on zaurus would be a total b*** unless opera had such great zoom option, making it possible to view most sites pretty much like they show on normal-non-320x240-screen.

      10cm*10cm screen would be totally usable for almost anything a normal pc screen is good for if it had 1024*768 resolution..
    • I don't like my PDA because the screen is too small.

      I like my PDA because the screen IS too small. When I have to pound in somebody's address, grab a note or hit play in the media player, I don't want to whip out this giant tablet. I want something small, like a little black book. It doesn't need to be able to display 1024x768 on a 15" diagonal landscape, it needs to be small and subtle.

      "Your phone number is...? Just a second while I mount my giant tablet PC with its huge screen on my arm...- give me room, OK, ready..."
  • by Trusty Penfold ( 615679 ) <jon_edwards@spanners4us.com> on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:54PM (#4781192) Journal

    My new tablet computer (I got it 2 weeks ago) is so perfect it made me forget it is running XP and I simply haven't had time to try and get Linux running on it.

    It suits my way of working so well that I can't think how I managed before. I don't do my main development on it, I still prefer typing to writing for that. But it allows me to do my email and do lots of design (both development and UI usability) while commuting to work on the train each day [yeah, I know I'll be criticised for being conned into working during personal time, but I'm not stupid - my productivity is higher so I go home early!].

    Back to the internals ... I'm sure when I upgrade, I will try and hack linux onto this thing [perhaps by then there will be video drivers!] but until then I don't want to break it.
    • i just ordered a fujitsu, primarily for the screen and wacom stylus. maxed out the ram (768) and hard drive (40), and am ordering some software. as a mac user, i really wanted something light which i could connect a monitor and keyboard to in order to use as a desktop when necessary. i am curious what software you are running and what your experience has been speed-wise. thanks.
    • My new tablet computer (I got it 2 weeks ago) is so perfect it made me forget it is running XP

      It's interesting to hear somebody say that. I've thought for quite some time that we would reach a point where most people don't care or even know what OS is running. (Quick--what kind of circuit design is in your TV?). I think our expectations of what an OS and apps can do are just beginning to converge on some common items. By the time we reach a consensus, Microsoft will be as important as, oh... a car headlight manufacturer (Quick--who made the headlights in your car?).

  • by Whatsthiswhatsthis ( 466781 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:54PM (#4781194)
    Giant pad of paper reviewed. More at 11...
  • Magnets (Score:4, Funny)

    by D4Vr4nt ( 615027 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:54PM (#4781195) Homepage
    Put on some powerful magnets on the back of one of these, and you got yourself a cheap internet fridge (why you'd want one is beyond me).

    Heck this might be the coolest fridge magnet yet! :D
    • Re:Magnets (Score:2, Funny)

      by easyfrag ( 210329 )

      Put on some powerful magnets on the back of one of these, and you got yourself a cheap internet fridge.


      Yep, and after you corrupt all the data on its hard drive from those magnets, you can stick post-it notes to it and have a really expensive bulletin board.

  • I'd entertained (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Freston Youseff ( 628628 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @03:58PM (#4781208) Homepage Journal
    the idea of buying a tablet PC during the now-dead Internet Appliance boom. I finally realised the offerings at the time weren't worth the money. A company, Qubit Incorporated [qubit.net] (dead link, given for posterity) based out of Denver, Colorado had some very attractive offerings and made a very large splash at Comdex 2000. It would appear Qubit is now defunct. There seems to be very little actual demand for Tablet PCs, and demant will probably remain very low until they become *very* cheap.
  • by ToasterTester ( 95180 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:00PM (#4781213)
    The worst thing about MS Tablet PC is I don't make a dime off of them. All I get is people asking me for my opinon. Anyone want to buy some old copies of my demo software. HEY do any of you even know I created the spreadsheet!

    Can you say Visicalc???

    I'm a legend dam it!!!
  • Come again? (Score:5, Funny)

    by 10Ghz ( 453478 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:02PM (#4781221)
    A pen-based desktop system that was part of the personal computer world came from Wang in 1988. Called Wang Freestyle...


    Must... Resist... The... Urge... To... Make... Jokes...

    • When i was about 10 years old, I was given a Wang computer (a 286, it had a Wang keyboard and everything).

      I'm not sure if the word wang meant then what it does today, but i used to call it (being 10 years old) the WangComputer. (Say the two words in quick succession, out loud, and let the ten year old inside of you giggle like a shcoolboy.)
  • by Jonny Ringo ( 444580 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:03PM (#4781225)
    as far as I'm concerned so far, is that Microsoft did a great job...of naming it.

    Ahhh yes they stayed up all night, but it was worth it.

  • by danielrm26 ( 567852 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:06PM (#4781240) Homepage
    I actually wasted (I mean 'took') the time to go to a TabletPC launch in Atlanta, and it wasn't half bad. The product concept is in the beginning stages, everyone knows that - even Microsoft. And to those who think they tried to totally steal the idea from the work of others, you need to get a clue. The Microsoft presentation included a fairly detailed history (basically a respectful look back) at the previous products in the genre. They didn't in any way act as if they came up with the idea. Hell, they even gave some props to the Apple product. :)

    Basically, don't be so quick to jump on the 'let's bash MS' bandwagon; it's a bit tired. There are actually some very cool things going on with the TabletPC - it's just that the price and the batterly life are too prohibitive to be taken seriously with this generation (for me and most people I have talked to anyway...).
    • These things aren't much more expensive than the Thin & Light notebooks that I tend to buy.

      Comparing them to larger laptops, which are often cheaper, isn't really appropriate, in my mind. Those larger laptops may be more capable in terms of screen size, processor power, drive bays & sometimes battery life, but they aren't anywhere near as portable and are often to big to use on a plane or bus.

      As for battery life, from what I have heard, the tablets do pretty well. They may not run all day on a charge, but they should get you through lunch.

      My big problem with the tablets is that they are not good enough to be your primary PC, but the software & hardware isn't quite where it needs to be to mitigate that shortcoming.

      What I would like to see is either:
      1) A docking solution that uses a single flexible cable & software support to provide seamless desktop extension so you can use the tablet as a tablet while making use of a full sized monitor, mouse and keyboard. (Ideally this would be wireless, but that isn't going to work well enough to give decent video performance) Either the tablets lack a docking station, or they aren't very useable as tablets when they are docked.

      2) Better cooperative computing so I can use my tablet in conjunction with another system. At the very least, I want file & preference synchronization/sharing between machines to be seamless, but process migration would be even better.

  • ... but I think I'd really rather have a pocketpc style device with a larger screen to accomplish the same thing if it'd be cheaper. I'd end up spending an awful lot of money for something that I'd just use as a web browser/e-mail checker.
  • A few datasheets ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by MarcQ ( 191842 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:22PM (#4781294) Homepage
    ... in case you are as ignorant as I was about available Tablet PCs.
  • Dirty Fingers... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by monadicIO ( 602882 )
    I've never used these devices, but won't the screen turn really oily/dirty since your hand/palm rests on it while writing stuff? Also, the normal lcd display has distortion when you press it hard. Isn't this a problem with the tablet PCs?
    • Re:Dirty Fingers... (Score:5, Informative)

      by AzrealAO ( 520019 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:29PM (#4781312)
      The LCD's on TabletPC's are all covered with tempered glass. So you're not pressing down on the LCD Matrix at all. The Pen's are EMR Pens, like a Wacom Tablet, and the act of pressing down on the glass causes the stylus tip to press up into the pen itself. As for fingerprints, of course that's an issue. The Acer came with a nice microfibre, lint free cloth to wipe the screen with, and to be honest, it doesn't really get that bad.
    • Since they aren't GNU/Linux based, the average user isnt all that oily and dirty to begin with.

      So it isn't much of an issue.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:43PM (#4781354)
    I recommend jumping over to eBay and search for "SonicBlue" [ebay.com]. About 4.5 months ago, they went a couple times for $350.00, but now they are quite a high demand and seldomly sell for less than $500.00. If you don't know what a "SonicBlue" is, it is better known as the ProGear and there are three models: SE, LX, HX. These SonicBlue ProGear tablet computers use a first-generation Transmeta Crusoe 400MHz CPU and certainly make good use of 32bit cardbus, touchscreen, and sound. No accelerated openGL here.

    For Microsoft to claim IP on "TabletPC" is outright disgusting. Search eBay for "Tablet" and you will come across the aging Fujitsu Tablet Computers that still are and excellet addition to your slashdotting, hacking, cracking, and light-weight gaming needs. I must say, the most-hacked Tablet Computer is the Netpliance I-Opener; of which the BIOS on these computers is now able to be re-flashed and rather use a mere 200MHz Winchip CPU, you are able to now install and use an AMD K6-2 CPU and as well support for higher quantities of RAM. The only component holding back the Iopener in features is the slow, yet well-supported, Trident Cyberblade video. Alas, if I were to choose between a Netpliance I-opener and another, I would choose the Cidco Mailstation. The Cidco Mailstation uses a verry nice and wide grayscale LCD and it is able to last for over 12 hours on a single set of batteries...in my experience.

    Linux on the Cidco Mailstation is A+ material. Too bad nobody has been able to do it yet.

  • Thin Clients (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Rudy Rodarte ( 597418 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:45PM (#4781359) Homepage Journal
    I really think the tablet PCs would have to be thin clients to conserve battery life. I also don't think that a M$ OS is the way to go. The bloat in OS would just use up so much memory and processor cycles, that the battery life would suffer. A thin client, with just a web browser(intranet, limited internet) and maybe a few small apps, such as a calculator, or life support monitor, etc etc. This is assuming that a sales person or a medical professional is using the device.

    Anything goes if someone is watching DVDs and running SETI@Home in the background while downloading the latest Harry Potter. I wouldnt expect the battery to last that long at all. Then again, the same goes for normal protables.

    Another factor to consider is heat. If the WinXP OS is running all sorts of junk in the background, the system will heat up considerably. Much like thier desktop brothers, the new pentiums and athlons /**You forgot my processor, you insensetive clod!*/, the new processors get HOT. Would you really hold a system like this, [bestbuy.com] if it was reaching 150 degrees F? I wouldn't

    But then again, this is nothing new. I think I've seen people with devices like this before. Usually, its all proprietary programs. They seem to work well, since its just a thin client with connections to a server somewhere.
  • by Guspaz ( 556486 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @04:49PM (#4781368)
    He goes on about how there has been no innovation, and even if this is true, there has certainly been progress. He's comparing Tablet PCs to desktop attachments and PDA-style devices. This is the first time we're seeing this quality of hardware at this kind of price with a world-standard OS. Many of these Tablet PCs can even convert back and forth between laptops. Comparing them to an 8088 unit from decades passed or an LCD graphics tablet is a poor comparison.
  • by mtec ( 572168 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @05:11PM (#4781451)

    There's no way I could swallow one of those!
  • by Crispin Cowan ( 20238 ) <`crispin' `at' `crispincowan.com'> on Friday November 29, 2002 @05:11PM (#4781452) Homepage
    Tablet PCs strike me as an opportunity for Linux to crack the desktop market. From what I've read of initial impressions of Tablet PCs, the thing that sucks the most is the crappy Microsoft inking software, that is neither easy to learn to write for (sucks worse than Graffiti) nor will it learn your writing style (sucks worse than Newton).

    So, if an open source project were to arise that did a better job of writing recognition, it could be a "killer app" that gets more of the mainstream PC users interested in Linux desktops.

    Caveat: no, I'm not going to do it. My research area is security, not HCI.

    Crispin
    ----
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
    Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. [wirex.com]
    Immunix: [immunix.org] Security Hardened Linux Distribution
    Available for purchase [wirex.com]

    • I wish I had somewhere safe (/. effect resistant) to post a few images. I just wrote out your entire post on my Acer C102T, and my handwriting is certainly nothing to write home about.

      100% success rate recognizing. There are a few words it's not sure about, but every single one of them, it has chosen the correct word, as the first possible choice.

      The recognizer works on patterns and context, as much as it does on pure stroke recognition. I find that most people who think the recognition sucks are either block typing (which makes it difficult for the recognizer to seperate words), or are simply writing a few words to test the recognizer. Write full sentences, hell, write entire paragraphs. The more you have it recognize at once, the better it does, as it is able to use the context of everything you've written to help it recognize your writing.
  • Why the tablet? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `101retsaMytilaeR'> on Friday November 29, 2002 @05:14PM (#4781464) Homepage Journal

    I'm seeing a lot of questions like "Why would anyone want a tablet when you can just buy a laptop"?

    The answer is simple: Because laptops SUCK for working in your lap.

    Laptops are the most misnamed device ever. They are portable PCs. Useful, but difficult to use in any position other than in front of you -- like a PC.

  • Although on the face of it this appears to be a very positive article, what strikes me is the very TEPID level of enthusiasm he exhibits.

    It's hard to believe this is the wave of the future when the first kid on the block to have one can barely say more than "When I write in a way that my ink is readable (slowly and big), the recognition is surprisingly good, but not wonderful" and "[I was struck' with how little advance there had been since the last try for pen computers... the pen/tablet software and hardware aspects appear just a bit better..."

    He keeps SAYING that what's been done is just great and important and bound to be the wave of the future, but it sure doesn't sound to me as if his heart is in it.
    • There's a reason why his enthusiasm is tempered. It's because the software is little better than what was available 10 years ago. He knows, he worked on the software then.

      You can bring tears to the eyes of any Newton user by asking them to imagine what kind of softare and hardware they'd have today if the technology hadn't been strangled. (Thanks in large part to MS itself.)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 29, 2002 @06:23PM (#4781692)
    Can we please bring the MS bashing to a reasonable level? Someone took a quote from the first paragraph of the review and slapped it into a story. If anyone bothered to read the article, they would see that he didn't have *anything* bad to say about the Microsoft part of the product. Of course, he had some suggestions about how to improve the hardware aspect of the product, but I was unable to find one instance where he critized Microsoft.

    Let's be reasonable here. If Microsoft does something stupid or evil, let's post it. But if Microsoft puts out a new product, and the hardware manufacturer does a less-than-spectacular job of implementing it, don't blame Microsoft...
  • by g4dget ( 579145 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @06:45PM (#4781736)
    If the patents listed in Dan Bricklin's column hold up, then the pen computing area is in trouble. In particular, with Microsoft's purchase of Aha!, they own some pretty fundamental patents.

    Furthermore, with the release of TabletPC, Microsoft has shown again that they simply can't innovate. Microsoft's TabletPC software is the same old stuff we had 10 years ago, only in a more bloated software incarnation. The only thing that has really gotten better is the hardware and processor speed, as well as the quality of real-time graphics those machines support.

    Few if any of those patents should hold up if challenged in court, since most of the techniques had been used for quite some time by researchers before that. This is the usual case of a bunch of upstart startups not knowing what has been happening in academia and patenting like mad (Bricklin is aware of this [bricklin.com]). But that won't stop those patents from causing great harm: the threat of a lawsuit from Microsoft or Compaq/HP is sufficient to scare away investors from startups and to cause bigger players like Palm, Sony, or Apple to avoid certain features or functionality entirely.

    While Compaq/HP holds some important patents, they are in bed with Microsoft. That means that Compaq/HP will willingly license their patents to Microsoft. Microsoft will use their patents to force other companies to adopt their TabletPC even if those other companies would have wanted to develop their own pen software. And for companies like Apple, who will likely develop their own software, Microsoft will use the threat of lawsuits to limit functionality and stifle their creativity: "you can only use our patents if you make this part of your software 'compatible' with ours".

  • by grum ( 92363 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @07:31PM (#4781849) Homepage

    Gabe talks [penny-arcade.com] about using a Tablet PC to produce his comics.

    For an example of a sketch made on it, go here [penny-arcade.com]

  • Slick (Score:2, Insightful)

    by m1a1 ( 622864 )
    I can't lie. I think the tablet PC's look pretty slick, but they are also kind of tricky. I really don't need a laptop. It is too big for me to whip out in my Circuit Theory class and IM my girlfriend to come to pick me up after class. However, a palm pilot is just right. I can pull it out, do something simple, and put it away.

    Some of my friends don't like the palm though, they want a laptop. These are a good bit more expensive than a normal laptop, and don't seem to be that much more functional. So my friends who want or already use laptops, still think their laptops are a better deal. I just can't see anyone buying these while they are much more expensive than a laptop.

    People who need a handheld will buy a handheld, and people who need a laptop will buy a laptop. This doesn't fully meet the needs of a palm-user, and it charges the laptop user more for functionality that is arguably useless.
  • by K8Fan ( 37875 ) on Friday November 29, 2002 @09:44PM (#4782180) Journal

    Bricklin is concentrating on application development for PenPoint, and winds up giving short shrift to the OS it's self. It really was an innovative operating system, possibly the most unique one in the last 20 years. (OK, I realize that is a bold claim, and will produce a lot of argument, but bear with me...)

    PenPoint was the first commercial OS where the user didn't interface with "applications" and "files". The primary interface element was the page. The user started with a blank page, and if she started writing, it would start translating the handwriting into test, like a word processing application. But if she drew a box, it would start graphing. The user could move through pages with a "flicking" gesture; use proof-reading typographical marks to edit. Very clever.

    Microsoft borrowed some of the embedding for OLE, but they didn't actually get it. Or maybe they got it too clearly. They saw that an OS that didn't follow the application-launcher paradigm meant smaller sales for their Applications division.

    Anyway, I didn't own one of these, so I may have gotten some details wrong. I just remember being impressed by the ideas behind it and was pained to see Microsoft's sorry-ass "Pen Windows" appear, kill PenPoint, then disappear like a serial killer.

  • TabletPC - $1,000
    X Box Loss - $500
    Gates' bank account - $500

    Anyway... I'd not give up my WACOM tablet forever! PERIOD!

    *sigh*

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