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Handhelds Hardware

Sendo Can't Get Microsoft Source; Ditches Windows 288

Posted by michael from the shared-source-ha-ha-ha-ha dept.
An anonymous submitter wrote: "Just when you thought the award-winning data leech Microsoft had become invincible... cellphone manufacturer Sendo, in a statement on the front page of its web site, announces the termination of its Z100 smartphone development on the Microsoft platform, licensing the rival Symbian from Nokia instead. (Further reports by ZDnet and Heise.)"
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Sendo Can't Get Microsoft Source; Ditches Windows More

Sendo Can't Get Microsoft Source; Ditches Windows

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  • The way to change things (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Soporific ( 595477 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:45PM (#4617872)
    I guess this is the way that vendors can get a change out of Microsoft. If you don't like someones product, take your business somewhere else.

    ~S

    • Re:The way to change things (Score:5, Funny)

      by szcx ( 81006 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:12PM (#4618144)
      Wait a minute, are you saying that if you don't like the way a company does business you can go to an alternate vendor? Good Lord, man. That changes everything!

      • Re:The way to change things (Score:5, Funny)

        by Arandir ( 19206 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:32PM (#4618291) Homepage Journal
        The implications are staggering!

        I can actually choose OpenOffice without going to jail. I can use Mozilla without violating the Internet Explorer licensing. I could install Linux or *BSD without having to register as an OS offender. I can even use KDE instead of GNOME!

        Nah... Too much responsibility. I'll just join a class action suit against Microsoft.
        • I can even use KDE instead of GNOME!

          Tsshhh, whats wrong with a nice text terminal?
        • KDE instead of GNOME

          Not on RedHad, buddy... that WILL get your ass in jail.

        • Well, yeah, you can do all that.

          But you still have to pay for Windows.
        • I must need to up my caffeine injections. I initially read your second sentence as "I can molest the internet without a license."

  • M$ finally gets screwed! (Score:4, Funny)

    by hbmartin ( 579860 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:45PM (#4617878)
    Oh, I'm sure they'll repent to everybody they ever screwed, now that they know what it feels like. NOT! They'll probably just use more Halloween stuff to kill Nokia and Sendo. Anyway, it's nice to see a company slap M$ in the face on their front page. It kinda give me a warm, fuzzy feeling. Or mabe that's just the caffeine.

    • Re:M$ finally gets screwed! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mentin ( 202456 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @02:07PM (#4618564)
      Microsoft does not have to do anything. Slashdot users will do the retaliation instead!

      From now on, every IT vendor knows: if he turns away from Microsoft and uses other's products, an article describing this will be immediately published on /. and his Web site will be immediately slashdot'ed.

      This will obviously stop those IT vendors from doing such a crasy thing.

    • They'll probably just use more Halloween stuff to kill Nokia and Sendo.

      They'll beat the shit out of them with a plastic Bible-man mask?
    • That message on their front page is sure quite a slap. For those that missed it, it says:

      "Gateway Timeout
      The following error occurred:
      A gateway timeout occurred. The server is unreachable.
      Please contact the administrator."

      Damn, MS must be hurting after such a tongue lashing...

  • Not using Windows? Are they insane?? (Score:5, Funny)

    by PhysicsGenius ( 565228 ) <physics_seeker&yahoo,com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:47PM (#4617892)
    Windows keeps on getting better and better. From it's award-winning design to it's revolutionary kernel architecture, Windows is the best in the biz. Says Internet Guru Dan Hertzfeld, "I rely on Windows and Office for Windows every day to deliver top-notch performance and it has never let me down." Many others praise Windows, too, including Chief Technology Officer Bill Patterson of Ford Motor Company, "Windows allows us to leverage our most valuable assets, people, into a world-class synergy to delight customers all over the globe."

  • mirror? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:47PM (#4617894)
    Gentlemen, how about a mirror? Their site appears to be served on a cell modem.

  • Big deal, Windows is the wrong paradigm for cell (Score:3, Insightful)

    by typical geek ( 261980 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:47PM (#4617900) Homepage
    phones. When you are trying to packet send and receive while jumping from cell to cell, you don't want the OS hung while a Window repaints, or an icon flickers on and off. You want an realtime OS tied down to the actual sending/recieving packets and doing the d/a a/d conversion on the speaker and microphone. You want a steady stream of conversation, you don't want the equivalent of an oral hourglass.

    This is also why Windowing software is also the wrong paradigm for industrial strength routers. The reason CICSCO certified people make such great money compared to test passsing MCSE monkeys is that the Cisco OS is all commandline/terminal driven, when you're routing a T3, you don't the overhead for pretty graphics.
    • It's not that it's command line or terminal driven (directly) as much as there is simply far less people cisco certified than MCSE certified. Simple supply and demand will raise the salaries(price) of the more rare resource.

      • This is because a Cisco CCIE certification actually /means/ something. I've known a CCIE or three, and they've all told me that there's a lab test where the instructors are running around breaking the network, and to pass the test, you have to fix it real time. This is a far cry from MSIE, where you can pass the written test and still not know anything about how to fix issues in the real world.

    • It IS a big deal (Score:3, Insightful)

      by burgburgburg ( 574866 )
      Microsoft is trying to hook it's claws into all things digital (including phones, appliances and cars). The fact that their programs are unqualified for such activities is irrelevant to them. This is, fortunately, a setback. Hopefully, a big one.

    • Re:Big deal, Windows is the wrong paradigm for cel (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mrm677 ( 456727 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:09PM (#4618113)
      Oh please. I didn't know whether to respond or mod you down on this one. I choose the former.

      Of course Stingray (Windows for cellphones) uses an underlying RTOS. I interviewed with that group. We talked about it. All of the fancy UI/Windows stuff is in a low-priority task.

      Just like with the Palm OS. The "Palm OS" doesn't actually run the PDA. It runs on top of a small RTOS kernel that handles interrupts, hardware drivers, and other real-time things that have little to do with the UI. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the same Palm OS runs on different RTOS kernels. In fact, I can almost guarantee you that the Qualcomm Palm thingy they had a few years ago likely did not use the same RTOS kernel as my Palm Vx.

      And you comment about Cisco Certified Internet Engineers and Command-line interfaces is a joke, right? A CCIE doesn't make more money because he or she can use a terminal instead of dragging icons. They make more money because internetworking is more of a niche and is arguably more complex than setting up Windows. It also costs much more to become CCIE than MCSE. Trust me, Cisco's next generation routers will be configured remotely through a graphical interface. I guess when that happens, CCIE's will be making just as much as a MCSE, huh?
      • It will be a cold day in hell before CCIEs stop using a command line interface. Being able to use config files and command lines has many advantages that will be familiar to *nix users.

        Various web-based GUIs exist for Cisco routers (some of them are built in), as well as larger-scale provisioning/activation systems for QoS, IP VPNs, etc, which include GUIs as well as APIs. The latter don't replace CCIEs but they make it possible to use less skilled provisioning staff to do certain complex and repetitive configuration actions using the CLI.

        There have been various efforts to provide a better protocol for provisioning systems to configure devices (e.g. COPS and now XMLCONF), but none of them has really taken off.

        • Re:Cisco router configuration (Score:5, Insightful)

          by mrm677 ( 456727 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:43PM (#4618383)
          The day will come when a competitor of Cisco develops a router that is easily configured by a Sysadmin who isn't a CCIE that knows the Cisco IOS terminal-driven interface like the back of their hand.

          When that day comes, Cisco will feel the pressure and follow suit. Why pay a CCIE $80,000 to do your configuration when you can pay somebody $35,000? Same reason why many companies choose Windows instead of Linux. I'm not saying its right or even cost effective, but its a lot cheaper (up front) to hire someone to set up a Windows server than a Linux server. Especially for simple things like file and printer sharing.

          There will always be a place for a CCIE expert, however their choice of places may become fewer.
          • Your kidding right? 80K for a CCIE? I think you are a little low. BTW, I'd find it Real Hard to believe that someone who only makes 35K a year knows enough about the underlying technology and protocols to configure an internet backbone router...
          • Why pay a CCIE $80,000 to do your configuration when you can pay somebody $35,000?

            Because if you offer 35k/year to someone who knows this stuff, whether CCIE or not, they're gonna laugh all the way to their interview with your competitor.
            • Because if you offer 35k/year to someone who knows this stuff, whether CCIE or not, they're gonna laugh all the way to their interview with your competitor.

              You see, existing large-scale routers require someone to really know the stuff inside and out. Just like how a UNIX admin really has to know his/her stuff to be a competent sysadmin.

              Now they are often being replaced by an MSCE who can run a Win2k installation CD.

              The key is removing complexity and make it appear cheap to the customer. This is how Microsoft sells their server products, not because they are more capable. Installing *any* server used to be very complex. Right now, configuring any Cisco router is complex. Someday, a product will be available that is easy to set up and is capable of doing the same job as that Cisco router. Just like how Win2k is capable of performing many (but not all) of the jobs once reserved for complex Unix installations.
              • Heh thats funny, we pay 70k to our "MCSE", except he only has a MCP and knows about three times as much as any of the "MCSE" bragging techs that run around campuss.

                For professional quality anything it takes a professional quality support man. I would hate to work for a company implimenting a 40 box citrix setup with a 35k "MCSE", in fact I might leave if a company tried to do that...

          • Doubt it (Score:3, Interesting)

            by mekkab ( 133181 )
            While hearing a talk given by Sham Chakravorty (one of the founders of Signafore and in the comm field for 30 years this February) last night, he mentioned that while other router companies were putting pretty gui's on their network management interface Cisco was busy making fast and robust routers.
            (this is a paraphrase... but I inferred that Cisco owned the market becuase they really had the better product)

            Just becuase it is easier doesn't mean it is better.
          • Oh please.
            CCIE is not about configuring a single router. It's not about "knowing how to configure ciscos".

            It's about being an expert at internetworking, and being able to deal with many, many different types of protocols and situations and hardware. Of course it's primarily focused on Cisco hardware, because the Internetworking business in general is primarily led by Cisco.

            CCIE expert.. ist hat like an LCD Display or a CRT Tube? an ABS System? an MD Doctor or a CGA Accountant? A CEO Officer?

            If you can hire a CCIE for $80k a year, more power to you.. his certification is probably fake.

            Of course in time there will be less of a market; the same can be said for most technology trades. But don't mix up CCIE with normal everyday cisco adminsitrator certifications, they are very different things.
          • Because you're paying for someone who understands networking, not for someone who knows the Cisco command line.

            Anyone - me included - can spend a day or so learning the Cisco shell. Whether that gets you a finely tuned network that operates to the SLA you require or a big, steaming, festering pile of dog crap depends on whether that someone understands the underlying concepts. That doesn't change with a GUI, which is why there are so many fucked-up Windows installations out there. Because people like you believe that a GUI makes an expert.
        • But the point is that CCIE is about general internetworking knowledge; the body of knowledge you need to pass the certification is wide and deep.

          MCSE is not the same thing whatseover.

          CCIEs make lots of money because there are not many peopel with their full set of skills out there in the world. In contrast, there are a bazillion and two MCSEs, and in many circles it is regarded as a worthless certification.
          I don't know anyone who considers CCIE to be worthless.

  • Slashdotted - Karma capped, just trying to help (Score:5, Informative)

    by br0ck ( 237309 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:48PM (#4617909)
    Sendo Z100 NOT TO LAUNCH

    Company Statement
    Sendo has terminated its Smartphone development program utilising the Microsoft Windows Powered Smartphone 2002 software.

    As a result, Sendo regrets to announce that it will not be shipping the Z100 Smartphone.

    It has been a very difficult decision for Sendo given its leadership position in the development of smart devices. We are disappointed that we will not be able to ship the Z100 given the high level of interest shown in the device.

    Although a set back, we are pleased to announce today that we have licensed the Series 60 platform from Nokia for our smartphone category. We believe this will create the opportunity for us to continue as a lead player in the development of smartphone products for 2003.

    SENDO CHOOSES NOKIA'S SERIES 60 PLATFORM FOR ITS SMART PHONES
    Thu Nov 7 2002
    Sendo, a British mobile phone manufacturer, today announced that the company has decided to license Series 60 Platform from Nokia for its smart phone category. The Series 60 is a software platform for feature- and application rich smart phones that Nokia licenses to mobile handset manufacturers. The platform is optimised to run on top of the Symbian OS. Sendo joins as the newest member to the Series 60 licensing community with Matsushita, Samsung, Siemens and Nokia.

    "Earlier this fall we reviewed our smart phone strategy. While our mission of providing customers with feature-rich and ubiquitous devices remains unaltered, seeing that the Series 60 fully embraces both our mission and the new strategy we decided to approach Nokia," said Hugh Brogan, Chief Executive Officer of Sendo Holdings Plc. "The platform utilises open standards and technologies, such as MMS and Java , jointly developed by the industry. The platform is robust, yet uniquely flexible, bringing great benefits to licensees, operators, developers and consumers."

    "We welcome Sendo, a pioneer in smart phone development, to join our Series 60 community. We see that a combination of Sendo's technical expertise and growing market presence will bring significant contribution to the mobile market with Series 60 devices. Interoperable solutions that are built on open and common industry standards are proving to be the winning formula in meeting demands of business users and consumers alike," said Niklas Savander, Vice President and General Manager, Nokia Mobile Software.

    Nokia licenses Series 60 Platform as a source code. The model enables licensees to contribute to the development of the platform while fully executing their individual business strategy, brand and customer requirements in fast developing and highly competitive mobile communications market. Licensees will be able to include the Series 60 into their own smart phone designs, thus speeding up the rollout of new phone models at lower costs.

    The Series 60 is a comprehensive software platform for smart phones, created for mobile phone users that demand easy-to-use, one-hand operated handsets with high-quality colour screens, rich communications and enhanced applications. The Series 60 platform consists of the key telephony and personal information management applications, the browser and messaging clients, as well as a complete and modifiable user interface, all designed to run on top of the Symbian OS, an operating system for advanced, data enabled mobile phones.


  • The first and final nail in MS's coffin.

  • Sendo (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Cowtard ( 573891 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:51PM (#4617943)
    Who the hell is "Sendo" and why should I care that this company no one has heard of has "stood up" to Microsoft?

    • Re:Sendo (Score:5, Funny)

      by Alan Partridge ( 516639 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:56PM (#4617990) Journal
      What the hell is "Google" and why should I care that this website that no one has heard of can "search the web" for information?

    • Re:Sendo (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Geek_in_Marketing ( 596828 )
      That's an easy answer.

      It doesn't matter whether you - or anyone else - has hear of Sendo. Every time the general public (those who are not reading /.) reads something like this, it reinforces what should be the base message of the Open Source community - not 'destroy M$' but, simply, 'you have a choice'.

      Change comes from positive reinforcement. If we want to change the minds of the non IT-literate, stories like this do help.

      You may not care, but I'm selling Open Source answers to small businesses. This sort of thing helps.

    • Re:Sendo (Score:4, Funny)

      by orthogonal ( 588627 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:11PM (#4618134) Journal
      Who the hell is "Sendo"

      I think Sendo was a character in Star Wars. You know, the black dude who sold Hands Soloing out.

      This is /., so you can assume it's from Star Wars, Star Trek, The Lord of the Rings, The Simpsons, or some anime cartoon.

      Didn't somebody post the other day that Knuth was a Simpsons character, and Turing was an Elf? Or something?

  • Can't get source? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Twid ( 67847 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:53PM (#4617962) Homepage
    I'm not sure where the "can't get source" comment in the title came from. I clicked through to the announcement, read both stories, and even translated the german text, and nothing in there said they terminated the agreement due to inability to get the source.

  • Sendo ditched MS! Quick, sell all MS you can! Clearly it's about to go bankrupt!
    Really, I'd be more worried about Sendo.
    Not that I like Microsoft, but this is really non-news. MS does tens of alliances a day, and it's news when one falls through? Geez.
    One more thing: If MS really cared about this deal, I bet you they could buy Sendo, stock, lock and barrel. And pay for it in cash.
    How about some real news, now?

    • Re:Big defeat... yay... (Score:3, Informative)

      by nchip ( 28683 )
      Microsoft invested a lot in sendo, and for the last year or so sendo was the only mobile phone maker planning to launch a microsoft based smartphone, which was planned to be launched this month. All the microsoft smartphone OS marketing was based around the now never to be launched sendo z100. Sendo is saying like "thanks for the money" and choosing an competitor instead. Microsoft is really running out of partners in mobile phone business.
    • This IS a big defeat for MS! Sendo was the only cell-phone manufacturer that was dedicated to their platform. Samsung has also licensed it, but they have been focusing on Symbian and Series 60 lately. Sendo was 100% MS. Sendo was the company that was supposed to bring MS in to cell-phone business.

  • The Reg has it (Score:5, Informative)

    by buzzdecafe ( 583889 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:54PM (#4617973)
    Sendo junks MS smartphone, joins Nokia camp [theregister.co.uk]

    BTW, What happened to theregus.com? It seems to be gone. :-(
  • How big a company is Sendo? How prominent are they in the field?

    Sendo was listed as one of the first SmartPhone (what a misnomer) partners: who else joined? Have they put anything out yet?

    • How big a company is Sendo? How prominent are they in the field?

      Sendo isn't really a big player in the mobile industry, but it's nice anyway to see them leaving Microsoft!

      Sendo was listed as one of the first SmartPhone (what a misnomer) partners: who else joined? Have they put anything out yet?

      By now, only Orange [orange.com] offer [theregister.co.uk] a "smartphone"...

  • I wish Sendo the best of luck... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GnomeKing ( 564248 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:55PM (#4617984)
    but I have to question the business heads of those who cancel a product DAYS BEFORE THE LAUNCH...

    Sure, it must have been a hard decision, but unless they made some huge fkup working out the per-device costing (did they forget to license windows? ;) ) then surely its worth showing your stock holders that you HAVE something for the millions spent on R&D

    But, as I said at the start of the article... good luck to them
    Now, not only have they "wasted" millions, they will probably have the beast on their back

    • Re:I wish Sendo the best of luck... (Score:4, Informative)

      by bstadil ( 7110 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:42PM (#4618376) Homepage
      I have to question the business heads of those who cancel a product DAYS BEFORE THE LAUNCH...

      One of the first things you learn in business school is that cost already expended should have no influence on your future actions.

      Failure to understand this is sometime called "Throwing good money after bad".

      Lots of reason not to launch springs to mind, Support cost being an obvious one. Once you sell the first unit you need to support it.

      Second Economy of scale. If you can't sell enough units you will not reach the required production cost. You loose money (variable cost) on each unit you sell. Better not to sell anything at all. Lots of other reasons, so I think the people running Sendo has business acumen. It actually takes guts to do what they have done. (Maybe this is a ploy to get code and whatever they else they want. Maybe they want to be acquired by MS and act as their development arm. Who knows)

    • ...then surely its worth showing your stock holders that you HAVE something for the millions spent on R&D...

      They're a private company.

  • the last thing we need (Score:3, Interesting)

    by asv108 ( 141455 ) <asv.ivoss@com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:57PM (#4618003) Homepage Journal
    Is a phone running windows, with phones interface design is crucial, that's why I'm still using an older nokia even though my cell phone provider has the color Ericsson T68i [attws.com]. I went down to the local AT&T Store, ready to shell out the bucks for the T68i. After checking out the interface, I asked the guy when could I expect to see color Nokias. He told me December, but knowing AT&T, that translates in to March or April.

    It doesn't matter what features you pack in to a phone, if the interface sucks, most people are not going to buy it. Everyone I know who has switched from Nokia to another phone in order to get the latest gadgetry has regreted it. I just wish nokia would get their ass in gear and release some of the phone that are available in fscking Africa in the US.

    • I agree. Usability of other phones I've used (motorola tri-band, moto star tac, samsung, philips), just suck compared to nokia.

      One funny is that the us designed mobiles are optimised for a different problem: roaming and unreliable coverage. You get different coloured lights to show whether coverage is present/absent or roaming, different rings, for home vs roam, bleeps when you gain or lose coverage.

      Nokia phones have none of these, because 'no coverage' is an abstract concept outside the mountainous bits of europe. Instead its just really easy to make and receive calls, to ring back the last person who called you, and to send text messages.

      Which is what you really need, mostly.

  • A little bit of research.. (Score:5, Informative)

    by tagevm ( 152391 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:01PM (#4618036)
    ...would have been nice, before giving Nokia full ownership of Symbian [symbian.com]. As the article says the licensed software is optimised to run on Symbian, but it is not Symbian. From the Symbian website: "Symbian was established as a private independent company in June 1998 and is owned by Ericsson, Nokia, Matsushita (Panasonic), Motorola, Psion, Siemens and Sony Ericsson. Headquartered in the UK, it has offices in Japan, Sweden, UK and the USA."

  • Don't just dismiss this as unimportant! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FyRE666 ( 263011 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:02PM (#4618043) Homepage
    Although many will doubtless claim this is insignificant to MS - the fact they're further delayed in getting their own hardware out there will do them serious damage in the mobile device arena. Nokia and other phone manufacturers have a growing army of 3rd party developers writing new software for their devices, which in turn makes them more desirable for anyone who wishes to expand their capabilities. Although the phone manufacturers are making some mistakes (mostly messing about with the J2ME standard classes, and offering little support) the number of apps is increasing very quickly.

    Contrast this with MS, who have no platform, no 3rd party developers (as far as I know), and very little to offer over the established brands. The other mobile makers already have software to sync their devices with Windows/Linux/Mac OS', and they're pretty reliable.

    MS is going to have a very very hard battle trying to convince anyone to buy their phones, even moreso than the XBox - which isn't doing well compared to the competition.

    This is a good thing ;-)
    • MS is going to have a very very hard battle trying to convince anyone to buy their phones, even moreso than the XBox - which isn't doing well compared to the competition.


      The xbox is selling very well, but what the hell has this got to do with smartphones?

      Microsoft provides very detailed, powerfull and highly documented application and SDK environments. I don't know where you come off saying they don't provide the var support. Microsoft has by far got the worlds largest 3rd party and VAR support of ANY company.

      Xbox is doing very well, has the highest "attach" rate and has sold MILLIONS. For a FIRST product and FIRST year it is doing very well.

      hell, microsoft will be in the black shortly. Considering a billion went in, thats a FAST ROI!

      Now back to smartphones, sure MS can screw up, but everyone though PocketPC is going no where yet they still sell like hotcakes and compete very well against every other palm type device out there.

      • Re:Don't just dismiss this as unimportant! (Score:4, Informative)

        by ivan256 ( 17499 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @03:16PM (#4619193)
        hell, microsoft will be in the black shortly.

        Um, no. I hate to burst your "I bought an Xbox, so it damn well better succeed" bubble, but Microsoft is demonstrateably nowhere near having brought in $1 billion in revenue from the Xbox. Look at their last few quarterly reports. You'll see two things. First, they group Xbox revenue in with revenue from MSN subscriptions, PC games sales, and consumer software. Basically everything microsoft makes that's not Office, Windows, or a server product, and all the revenue (not profits, revenue) from MSN. Second you'll see that they bring in under $2 billion a year with all those things. There is NO WAY that Xbox accounts for half of Microsoft's non Windows/Office sales, especially since those numbers aren't significantly increased from the previous year when Xbox didn't exist. Not only that, but revenue figures don't take into account the expenditure for building each device.

        Estimates I've seen tend to agree that Microsoft must sell between 10 and 20 games to break even on an Xbox sale. How many games do you have for your Xbox?

        The xbox is selling very well

        Again, bullshit. There's loads of market research that shows Xbox in an uphill battle for second place. http://www.instat.com/press.asp?ID=390&sku=IN02004 1ME

        You need to shell out $3k for the numbers, but it's not to hard to figure it out from the abstract. If sony sold >20 million consoles in the last 12 months, 31 million consoles were sold overall, and Nintendo and Microsoft have sold roughly equal numbers of consoles, you can see that the Xbox is not selling very well compared to PS2. That means there are 40 million PS2 in people's houses, and ~5 million Xboxes out there. Also, if you head over to NPDFunworld [npdfunworld.com], you'll see that for the last 6 months Xbox has had on average 1 game in the monthly top ten based on sales. That's not anything to write home about, especially when there are typically 6 PS2 games and 3 GBA games on the list.

        Maybe someday there will be enough good Xbox exclusive titles out there to get more people to shell out the $200 for an Xbox, but with microsoft already planning on releasing Xbox 2 in just over 2 years, and 90% of the good xbox games being available on other platforms, Xbox sales may not be picking up anytime soon.
      • How can you say the XBox is doing very well?
        GameCube hardware sales in September totaled nearly 168,000 units. Xbox sold 175,000 pieces. That brings life-to-date sales of GCN in the US up to 2.3 million versus 2.8 million Xbox sales. Sony's unstoppable giant PlayStation 2, meanwhile, crushed figures of both systems in September, selling an additional 500,000 pieces of hardware. More than 11.3 million PS2s have sold in America since the console launched.

        The PS2 is still outselling XBox almost 3:1, in spite of the fact that the PS2 is a year older. The PS2 still has over a 4:1 market dominance. And that's in the Xbox's best market. It's no secret that the XBox is not doing well overseas versus GameCube.
        To put the 2.8M XBox units into perspective, that is currently 2/3rds of what the Dreamcase sold in 17 months:
        When all was said and done, 4.2 million Sega Dreamcast units were sold in the United States

        At the present rate XBox will not beat the Dreamcast at the 17 month mark, and the Dreamcast at least had a better foreign market.

  • Forbes on Fox (Score:5, Funny)

    by bhsx ( 458600 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:06PM (#4618094)
    I was stuck at the Hyatt in downtown Chicago this past weekend and was watching Forbes on Fox. Steve Forbes and his writers and editors were speculating on tech futures when they brought up hopeful Nokia and Motorola sales increases. One of the panel, via satelite, discounted the possible sales increase with the reasoning that Microsoft is entering the cell arena with OEMs rather than traditional cell phone manufacturers and that that would stimey Moto and Nokia. To which one of the enlightenned panel members replied:
    I've had to agonize with Microsoft on my computer, I certainly don't want them on my cell phone."
    It was an unexpected comment and I couldn't stop chuckling.
  • I gave away my cellphone a couple of weeks ago, because I was waiting for the Smartphone to come out, it has some very nice features. To be honest, the only feature that I was looking forward to, was the one where XBox Live players could invite you to a game and if your XBox is not powered on, you'll receive the invite on your cellphone. I love that. I don't wanna miss out on the fun.

  • Misleading title (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ChronoZ ( 561096 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:11PM (#4618127)
    Yes the article states that they are ditching MS, but other than stating the openness of Symbian source code, there doesn't seem to be any specific reference stating that Sendo ditches Windows because it "can't get Microsoft source".

  • Another win for Open Source (Score:3, Interesting)

    by miffo.swe ( 547642 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .molbdeh.leinad.> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:11PM (#4618138) Homepage Journal
    The more companies that gets used to have access to the source code and being able to make modifications the better. Once you are familiar with the concept its much easier to uncerstand why Gnu/linux works and what benefits it can bring. Also its much harder to fool someone with things like Shared Source if they are knowledged in GPL etc. and can see the really big differences between licenses.
    • How is this a win for Open Source? They just went from one closed-source commercial vendor to another. The latter was simply willing Sendo to show the back room. They're not seeing the value in Open Source at all -- they just wanted something that Microsoft didn't offer.
      • Well they did get access to the source code didnt they? Symbian is as a matter of fact pretty much a source distribution. So by my reasoning they have discovered benefits in having access to the source code. The step from wanting access to the source code to Open Source or GNU/linux is pretty short. Once they have the basic idea and have discovered the benefits i for one can imagine they have taken one step closer to Open Source.

        Open Source isnt the GPL but the step from Open Source to the GPL is very short.

    • or (Score:2)

      by geekoid ( 135745 )
      "Linux is like my wife, hard to understand but very easy to get under the hood."
      Never use your wife to make a statement, it will get thrown back at you.

  • Quick look at Series 60 and Programming for it (Score:5, Informative)

    by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <`moc.liame' `ta' `60neksilps'> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:13PM (#4618155)
    Quick look at Series 60 here [wirelessdevnet.com]

    Book description of "Programming for the Series 60 Platform and Symbian OS" here [digia.com]

  • Paradigm Shift (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TWX_the_Linux_Zealot ( 227666 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:14PM (#4618160) Journal
    For some reason, I'm beginning to think that this could signify a slow paradigm-shift in certain tech-savvy industries.

    I worked for a telecommunications company that had started using NT 3.51/4.0 for embedded system work, because we were using off-the-shelf industrial servers, and at the time, Microsoft' Systems Architect for NT was gearing things toward being fairly decent as an embedded system. When the latter iteration of NT 4.0 and then 2000 came out, they had clearly changed their intent, and our product, to use a technical term, was "fucked". Ultimately, an investor with cold feet spelled the end of the company, but it was taking quite a long time to adapt to the new platform, and this was seen as a big problem.

    We had trusted Microsoft to keep the platform stable for our uses, and they failed to do so. Had we had the source code to the OS, we could have potentially rewritten the parts that we needed to make things work, while still giving them their licensing fee for the newest product. We never (obviously) had the chance.

    Now, I work for an organization that has to maintain a massive database, and while we bought the software that we use, we also received the source code, so we actively maintain our end. We and our vendor work to determine what changes we as an organization made, and sometimes these changes are rolled back into the next release or step of the product, if they're universally beneficial. Others aren't, and we simply have to go and check the new versions to make our changes. This approach works very well.

    Even if 'open source' isn't the answer to everyones' problems, simply having the source at all can be very beneficial. Hopefully, more and more medium to large companies and organizations will realise this, and that this, rather than lawsuits, attacks, etc, will cause people to abandon Microsoft.

    • Pay for your source? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by lpret ( 570480 )
      I have a question about a possible Microsoft avenue. Do you think Microsoft could sell their source code to a company for x amount of dollars and also require licenses for the derivatives of that modified OS?

      Example

      ABC Widget company buys the source for XP Pro for $20,000 and then, after modifying XP to actually do the stuff they need, they use 100 copies of it, and they have to pay Microsoft for 100 licenses of XP. Wouldn't this work? I mean, it would allow companies to work on XP, but also allow them to keep making money. One concern might be that the source might "get out" but I'm sure they'd figure out some way to know how it got out and then sue the company for all their worth. Anyways, just an idea, I don't know what yall would think of that...

  • Another one... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Fnkmaster ( 89084 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:19PM (#4618200)
    Wow, that sure is one smart phone [sybian.com]. I mean, these Symbian things seem really popular [peoplesc.com] these days.


    I hope I can get the source code to a Symbian and hack on it to improve the vibration modes, the "gooey" interface, and even make it go faster.


    Oh, that's a Sybian. Never mind.

  • It is news.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sunkist ( 468741 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:19PM (#4618201) Homepage

    ...because MS is a minority shareholder in SENDO. Not only is it embarrassing to MS but points out that MS power to control is loosening and can't even strongarm companies in which it has a stake.

    • Re:It is news.... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jamezilla ( 609812 )
      What's more, MS bought it's minority stake in Sendo in order to buy it's way into the cell phone software market. The heart of MS's cell phone problems runs way deeper than the fact that they make crappy software:
      If you look at profit margins for cell phone hardware, Nokia makes about a 50% profit on it's handsets. By contrast, Dell makes somewhere in the high teens (~18%) for it's PC hardware. This is largely due to the fact that MS is sucking up all the extra profit. No cell phone maker on the planet wants to let MS muscle in on their hardware profits - MS was forced to buy their way in.

  • I'm really excited about MS on cell phones (Score:5, Funny)

    by bobetov ( 448774 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:21PM (#4618207) Homepage
    They'll no doubt bring the same fine usability and security features they've perfected in Outlook to my cell phone's address book.

    Just think of all the new capabilities we'll have! Helpful users (especially those swell guys in eastern europe!) will no doubt quickly create vbscript autodialers. Heck, my phone will probably call my friends more often that I do!

    And that's the Microsoft Promise: "We do things so you don't have to!"

  • Submission? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Yankovic ( 97540 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:29PM (#4618262)
    Is there anyway to give a -1 Flamebait to a submission? SHEESH!

  • Excellent Point by Dan Gillmore (Score:3, Insightful)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@nOSPam.geekazon.com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:30PM (#4618274) Homepage
    Great links ... the last paragraph of Dan Gillmore's article [siliconvalley.com] gets to the crux of this and many other modern problems:

    The one chance is for people to realize what's at stake and do something difficult: Make choices that mean less convenience today in order to have liberty tomorrow. Americans are lousy at this, but a lot is now at stake. You may not care. You should.

    Yup. Americans ARE lousy at this, at least nowadays. We are the proud, the free, willing to fight for liberty justice for all, as long as we can do it with a remote from the couch. Today's America is a golden land of opportunity for anybody who can figure out clever ways to exploit our overriding aversion to inconvenience. That's the problem. Come up with a good solution to that, and the rest is details. My great fear is that fixing our sheep-like mentality is going to take something starkly real and immediate, like guerrilla warfare in our streets or an economic depression on the scale of the 1930s.
  • Reuters has also has an article [reuters.com] on the subject.
  • A fair number of the journalists and reviewers have been rather underwhelming in their thrill about the Z100.

    A common conclusion have been something like "Yeah, it looks like windows a bit, yeah, it can do some nice things but it is not really an good as pda, it takes 40 seconds to start and it is not a very nice telephone either."

    A few reviews have contained rather nasty hints that it was *painfully* obvious that Microsoft was involved (original emphasis).

    Faced with that, I'd probably cancel the product too, jump ship and be happy I didn't end up with an inventory of 100000 phones I couldn't sell.

  • 911 (Score:4, Funny)

    by sharkey ( 16670 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @02:30PM (#4618757)
    I was reporting a murderer on my Z100 Smartphone, and it was like, bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep. And then it was like, half the call was gone, and I was like hhggnnngnn? It devoured my call, and it was a really good call. I described him good, 'cause I like looked at him when he was after me. I had to call again really fast, but it wasn't as good 'cause he stabbed me, and it was, like, a bummer.

    I'm Ellen Feiss, and when this sucking chest wound heals, I'm like, getting a Nokia.
  • Steve-O: "Yay! WHOOOOHOOOO! Developers, Developers, DEVELOPERS! WHO TOLD YOU TO SIT DOWN?"
    Jules: "Nobody."
    Steve-O: "What did you say?"
    Jules: "I said 'Nobody'. Don't you speak english? What country are you from?"
    Steve-O: "What???"
    Jules: "'What' ain't no country I ever heard of. Do they speak english in 'What'?"
    Steve-O: "What...."
    Jules (draws gun, points at Steve-Os face): "Say 'What' again, SAY 'What' again, I dare you motherfucker, I double-dare you, say 'What' again..."
    Steve-O: "But...but...I just was saying that our Software is sooo sweet and you should dance and sing and not sit down...."
    Jules: "You don't give us the sources, so we're not dancenig our singing or buying no Software from you."
    Steve-O: "What?"
    BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!

  • Hmmn (Score:5, Insightful)

    by johnburton ( 21870 ) <johnb@jbmail.com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @04:17PM (#4619737) Homepage
    So it's nothing to do with the fact that they announced this phone YEARS ago, never released it and now orange have gone a developed their own similar phone which is actually going to be available and for much less money than sendo were planning on charging? I think is entirely possible they were simply unable to produce a competative phone and decided to blame someone else.

  • Cant get the source for windows CE? (Score:3, Informative)

    by autopr0n ( 534291 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @05:00PM (#4620257) Homepage Journal
    I thought you could just download that of the M$ homepage? Has something changed or is this a diffrent product they were after?

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