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Hardware

DivX DVD Players Arrive 362

Posted by timothy from the what-no-ogg dept.
division21 writes "Geeks rejoice -- DivX Enabled DVD Players finally surface! (With all the goodies: MP3, SVCD, etc.) I remember when MP3 compatability appeared back in the day -- And it looks as though DivX Compatibility could be a real possibility for the mainstream ..." And if you can live without the compression, cherrypi points out this surprisingly favorable review of perhaps the cheapest (under $200) portable DVD player with a built-in screen.
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DivX DVD Players Arrive More

DivX DVD Players Arrive

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  • And if they support DivX (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:09PM (#4544788)
    Many will also end up supporting Ogg Vorbis, since it's become a popular audio encoding format for DivX's. (Or so I hope.)

    • Re:And if they support DivX (Score:4, Informative)

      by octalc0de ( 601035 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:34PM (#4544934) Journal
      Many will also end up supporting Ogg Vorbis, since it's become a popular audio encoding format for DivX's. (Or so I hope.)

      Ogg Vorbis isn't really supposed to be used for DivXs. It's a VBR system, when AVIs require a CBR audio compressor, otherwise the video gets really screwed up. Now if there was a way to get ogg to do CBR....

      • Re:And if they support DivX (Score:4, Informative)

        by puppetman ( 131489 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:42PM (#4544965) Homepage
        You better tell all the encoders that. Most new movies are encoded with ogg, and have a .ogm extension. Lower bitrates, better sound, and more room left on the CD(s) to increase your video bitrate.
        • I download from newsgroups. Ogg movies I currently have on my HD (haven't burned yet):

          The Thin Red Line
          Elizabeth
          The Shining

          I checked monter-movies, and at least half were ogg movies.

        • Re:And if they support DivX (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          OGM files use the Ogg format instead of AVI, so they can deal with VBR audio. Some software will allow you to put VBR audio inside an AVI file, but it's a bad idea and can cause synchronization problems.



          OggMux (Windows) and ogmmerge (Linux) can be used to create OGM files. Most of the OGM files I've seen have Vorbis audio and XviD video, but you could also use DivX and MP3.



          I couldn't find any information saying which formats are supported on this device, but it's probably DivX video and CBR MP3 audio in an AVI file.

      • CBR?! (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Grendel Drago ( 41496 )
        What the hell are you talking about? A random sampling of NFOs on iSONews [isonews.com] shows quite a few releases using VBR MP3 soundtracks.

        Why on earth would AVIs require a CBR audio stream? Where did you get this idea? I'm really, really curious, here.

        --grendel drago
      • "Ogg Vorbis isn't really supposed to be used for DivXs. It's a VBR system, when AVIs require a CBR audio compressor, otherwise the video gets really screwed up. Now if there was a way to get ogg to do CBR...."

        This was in the beta builds of ogg vorbis. Does anyone know if it still exists? Now -b sets an average bitrate but it used to set a constant bitrate. I have tried this with managed bitrate mode and it still doesn't generate CBR. Does anyone know if OGGEnc 1.0 can generate CBR like the betas?

        I have tried fudging with the --Managed, -b, -M and -m in ogg1.0 and no combination of these will give me CBR!

      • Hey, we talking about DivX player, not .avi's. DivX is the codec used to compress frames. AVI is a file format, method to store video and audio frames together. They are not tied together! DivX codec frames can be stored in hundreds other ways, in different file formats.

        The same goes to Ogg. Ogg isn't the audio codec - it's a file (stream) format. Vorbis is an audio codec.

        There's not unusual in storing DivX encoded video and Vorbis encoded audio in Ogg stream. That's probably what is saw lately (.ogm files).

  • No thanks. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Guspaz ( 556486 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:10PM (#4544796)
    This thing costs ~600$ (CDN), and isn't even DivX certified because it doesn't play 3.xx content, which is probably more widely used than 4.xx or 5.xx. I can go to Radio Shack and buy a DVD player for 100$ (CDN), and I know for certain that an MPEG-4 decoder chip does NOT cost 500$!

    When these things cost under 200$ (CDN), and are truely DivX certified, I'll buy one. Until then... I could put together a cheap PC with S-Video out for half this price.

    • Re:No thanks. (Score:2, Informative)

      by Speedy8 ( 594486 )
      This is a high end DVD player with Progressive scan capabilities. That is what sets it into the very expensive category. If you go price high end DVD players with this feature you will find that they start around 350$ US.

      • Re:No thanks. (Score:2, Informative)

        by fidget42 ( 538823 )
        This also looks as if it is being priced as a botique item. It should be considered a good thing that a DivX enabled DVD player is priced at a premium, it means that they feel the DivX format adds quite a bit of value to the player. Just remember, MS had to pay vendors to add their format to the players.

    • Your next PC (Score:5, Interesting)

      by xigxag ( 167441 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @12:26AM (#4545380)
      We've got TiVo type boxes with Hard Drives, and DVD type boxes with DivX...really what we need is a more generalized component-sized PC that works to augment out television viewing experience. I know it's been done before [grist.org], but the public hadn't caught up with the idea of computational ubiquity. Now's the time for:

      * Component-sized set top box format
      * 20G HD (minimum) for recording shows and user apps
      * Low heat processor (e.g. Transmeta or XScale)
      * A embedded operating system of one kind [embedded-linux.org] or another [qnx.com]
      * CD-RW/DVD combo drive
      * Video in/out, RJ-45 for connectivity
      * Front port for wired/wireless keyboard/mouse/joystick

      Something like this ought to be doable for less than $500. Advantage: DivX 3.11, Ogg, MAME. whatever you want would be just a download away. Of course, a hacked XBox is already pretty close to this already.

    • Re:No thanks. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by alexburke ( 119254 )
      I can go to Radio Shack and buy a DVD player for 100$ (CDN), and I know for certain that an MPEG-4 decoder chip does NOT cost 500$!

      You're absolutely right, it doesn't -- but when you are the only company in the market offering a certain type of product, you can charge whatever the hell you think you can get for it.

      Isn't that right, Bill?

      Bill?

    • Re:No thanks. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Mysticalfruit ( 533341 )
      Just do what I did. When out and bought the network adaptor for my PS2 and bought a copy of this software: broadq [broadq.com] Now, I download the videos I want to my linux box, or setup jobs to capture when I'm not around, boot the PS2 and watch them on my TV. It's like Tivo, only I have lots more control and it'll play DivX, Mpeg(1,2,4),mp3,etc... Also, instead of making VCD's, when I want to archive something, I just write it onto a cdrw and throw it on the shelf...

    • Re:No thanks. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jridley ( 9305 )
      No set-top box will EVER play DivX 3.11 - it's a hacked Microsoft codec. If anyone ever built and marketed a player that used it, MS would sue their asses to oblivion, and they'd win. DivX 4 and 5 (which are better codecs anyway) were independently written, rather than just hacked MS code.

  • Vorbis Enabled? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jordy ( 440 ) <jordan AT snocap DOT com> on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:10PM (#4544798) Homepage
    When are we going to get some Ogg Vorbis [xiph.org]-enabled DVD/CD Players? With Microsoft getting WMA integrated into DVD players and Xiph putting out Tremor not to mention all the MP3 integration being done, it seems these little companies like Apex would jump to add yet another feature to their players that would differentiate them in that cut-throat bargain basement market.

  • Ambiguous (Score:4, Funny)

    by red_dragon ( 1761 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:12PM (#4544805) Homepage

    Shouldn't the article point out that these DivX DVD players aren't the same as the DivX players once sold by Circuit City? Or are they?

    • I believe the newer codec is really called DivX :-), or something like that. Unless it has been changed. So yes, and no.

    • Re:Ambiguous (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Comrade Pikachu ( 467844 )
      Damn. That's a good point.

      There is absolutely zero chance that any DVD manufacturer would sell a DVD player in the U.S. with the word "DivX", "DivX;-)" or anything similar printed on the box. Manufacturers would quite rightly want to avoid confusion with the "Divix" format. The customer might easily think that the player was somehow comptible with their old Divix disks or, worse, that the player was an old model that was incompatible with curent DVD's.

      So if they can't call it DivX, what do they call it? Mpeg4?

      And for those of us who want a DivX player, how does the manufacturer let us know without scaring off the rest?

  • Finally! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by fidget42 ( 538823 )
    I am glad to see that I can finally get a DVD player that supports DivX. Now I would love to find a PVR that supports the format (come on TiVo).

  • divx? (Score:5, Funny)

    by carpe_noctem ( 457178 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:12PM (#4544810) Homepage Journal
    I thought penny-arcade really put it best:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=1999-06 -18&res=l# [penny-arcade.com]

  • Firmware? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Hydro-X ( 549998 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:13PM (#4544814)
    Will the firmware be flashable to update to the latest codecs? I'm sure many have spent time wondering why their movies didn't work before learning that a new DivX codec was released and the newer videos are being encoded with it.

    • Probably not (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @12:10AM (#4545324)
      IT kind of depends on how it does the decoding. If it just has a general purpose CPU that is fast enough to handle all the decoing, like a Power PC 750 or something, then it is possable that this could be done since all teh decoding would be software based.

      However I think it is far more likely that this device uses hardware dedicated to the sole purpose of decoing video/audio. Basically the MPEG 2/4 decoding is probably done by a DSP dedicated to that purpose. Well that means that the chip can't do anything but MPEG 2/4 decoding, and cannot be changed.

      It's kinda like a 3d graphics card in your PC. Any modern 3d card is much, much, much faster than any processor you can find. The GeForce 4 can pull around 1 trillon opertaions per second when it really gets cranked up. However, it is a specific DSP, all it does it push pixels, and it can't be reprogrammed to do anything else. Your CPU, while much slower, is general purpose and can be programmed to do theoritically anything.

      Now I don't know for sure what this thing uses, I was unable to access the information on their site, but I suspect it is a couple of dedicated chips to do decoding, not a CPU. In that case, it woul not be updatable. I could be wrong though, CPUs are cheap enough these days in theory they could have a moderatly powerful one (probably on the order of an 900mhz P3 or so) and then just do the decoding in software.

      • General purpose DSP's abound (Score:4, Informative)

        by xtal ( 49134 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:01AM (#4545662)
        Have a look at the DSP Village over on the Texas Instruments web site. There are whole families of DSP chips that are reprogrammable and accellerate media functionality in all sorts of ways. Even your example of the GF4 - it is specialized towards 3D accelleration, it is customizable with the Cg language extensions. I won't even get into crazier ideas like shipping a FPGA and putting the algorithms on it (the general purpose CPU is probably cheaper). This is the case today, but maybe not tomorrow. This device probably does use some crummy chipset, you're right.

        What people should be asking is why the hell the folks at ATI - who already make exactly what you want, by the way, with their all in wonder cards - can't get their act together and write some decent, bulletproof software for windows 2k or linux (I don't really care at this point, if it's solid software). A general purpose PC with more power than you could ever need for this is about $500 away. Just add the card (maybe with some goodies like support for HDTV) and you're off to the races. Or just get a projector.

        The problem with that right now is stability. That ATI software is not very stable or good, doesn't integrate DiVX and scheduling functionality, doesn't want to work with my satellite reciever, etc. Get some good software in there and you have something.

        My $0.02.

        • Re:General purpose DSP's abound (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:58AM (#4545853)
          You are correct that newer 3d accelerators like the GeForce 4 and Radeon 9700 are programmable to a degree, but it is a very limited amount of programmability. Basically you can write simple programs that morph the vertexes in a scene and that describe textures ina mathematical sense. That's about it. Still purely graphcs and not general purpose.

          Also note that it is only receantly, within the last year or two, that consumer level graphics cards have gained even this level of programmability. They are finally starting to get a little less specialised and more general purpose, but still are highly, highly specalised devices.

          I predict that we will someday see a crossover, when general purpose CPUs become so powerful and cheap that DSPs will be bsolete. A cheap CPU will be capable of doing anything out could want, and hence there is no reason for a specalised circut.

          However, for now, DSPs are still very common in many devices, and I'd bet this is no exception. While you are correct that a $500 PC could to what they are talking about, that is WAAAY too expensive. I'm betting they are shooting for $300 or less.

  • irony... (Score:5, Funny)

    by havaloc ( 50551 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:14PM (#4544819) Homepage
    Finally, a DivX player that people will actually want to buy.
    • The MPAA will be filling their shorts over this one. But seeing as how DIVX is a totally legit compression codec, I don't think they'll be able to get rid of it either.

      These guys will make an absolute FORTUNE selling this device. If it was available right now, I'd be looking for my wallet and ordering one before posting this comment.

      As another poster said, hopefully it's easily flash-upgradable to support new codecs and such as they become available.

  • Read more Here [afterdawn.com]and also Here you have news from JVC [dvdcentre.co.uk] and finally Something from Thompson and Zenith [com.com]

  • now I can play the videos I get off kazaa on a dvd player, it's about time!
  • Does anyone know whose chip they're using for the video decoder?
  • KiSS DVD Player DP-450 [kiss-technology.com]

    and on a side note:
    2002-10-27 05:10:41 The new Ultimate DVD player (articles,news) (rejected),
    no really, i'm not bitter...

  • If you have an XBox... (Score:5, Informative)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <jason.nash@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:22PM (#4544875)
    Get a modchip and install the XBox Media Player. It'll stream DiVX/AVI/MPEG/SVCD/VCD from a PC (or off the internal HD) and display on your TV.

    Very nice.

    • Re:If you have an XBox... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Rew190 ( 138940 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @11:20PM (#4545130)
      An even easier way to do that is to get a video card that supports tv-out. Nvidia's NView works great for me (I believe that's a pretty standard feature on the new GeForce cards), and if you have a soundcard with a digital coax out cable, you can plug that right into your receiver. I use a WinXP box for this though, so I'm not sure how driver support is on Linux.


      Stupid simple, but divx movies look great on my 27 inch TV. If your computer's near your home entertainment setup, I highly recommend looking into getting the two hooked up.

      • I have the exact same setup at my house, and in fact I recommend reorganizing your home theater to accomodate such a setup. I moved my TV to be back to back with my computer, and I watch recorded TV shows and movies from the computer on the TV, at VHS quality.

        My only complaint is that I can't use the computer at the same time, and that nView doesn't seem to let you play the video full screen on one monitor and use the other monitor for other purposes. Do you just use "Clone" or do you have something else set up?

    • Re:If you have an XBox... (Score:4, Informative)

      by olrs ( 534447 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @12:06AM (#4545318)
      I would suggest not doing this until the makers of the XBox Media Player have settled the following issue from http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/:
      Some win32 guys made a media player for Micro$oft's well-known "console", the X-box. Unfortunately they used FFMPEG and XVID sources in their closed-source product, and failed to make their sources - and changes to the used GPL codebase - available either in public, or by request - as the GPL license forces them to do so. They can't be contacted because they don't publish their E-Mail addresses due to an expectable threat from M$, or whatever their reasons are. This violates GPL. As we currently cannot move against them (not that we want to do so, in the first place), we can only warn the open-source community to STAY AWAY FROM THIS PIECE OF PIRATED SOFTWARE! It's a pity that so much people don't give a shit about the tireless work of FFMPEG/XVID creators.

      Just my two cents.
    • Now, if you have a DivX player, all you need to do is install a modchip in it, one that has the zillion encoding algorithms used in DivX.

      Then the DivX player will stream DivX movies encoded with ogg/AC3/MP3/XviD/QPel/B-Frames/GMC, and the weirdest combination ot them from the player and display right on your TV !

      Very nice. Till the next week, when they release a new algorithm.

  • wouldn't it be nice (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Froze ( 398171 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:22PM (#4544878)
    if somebody would come out with a player that allowed you update the playable codecs by hooking it up to your computer or inserting a preloaded pcmcia card. Open up the plugin architecture and you would probably sell one to every /.er.

    Then I wouldn't have to read about all the I wan't (insert favorite codec here) on it but its not available because *they* are out to get me.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Much better than a PCMCIA card would be reading upgrades CDROM/CD-R! Then the system could be user-upgradable without adding any additional (rarely used) hardware to the player. (beyond flash-ram chips)

      OTOH, some new players are coming with slots for flash ram from digital cameras.
    • "if somebody would come out with a player that allowed you update the playable codecs by hooking it up to your computer or inserting a preloaded pcmcia card. Open up the plugin architecture and you would probably sell one to every /.er."

      I wonder if dreamcast hackers could (or already have?) come up with something like this. Maybe the DC does not have the CPU power to do it.

      Perhaps the X-Box modders might have a fun time with the project too. The X-Box certainly has enough horsepower!

  • This thing ought to be able to output 1080p. Can it? And is it any good at DVD bitrate?
  • ...are these DivX DVD players or DIVX [fightdivx.com] DVD players? :)

    Can't wait for that particular bit of irony to hit the fan(s).

  • Disc layout? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mobius_stripper ( 144347 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:34PM (#4544933)
    Does anyone know what the expected disc layout is?
    Does it pick up any AVI files in the root directory and play them or is there a well defined structure/index file? How are multiple languages, subtitles and menus handled? This info is necessary for standardisation on a uniform DiVX disc format.

    Krishna

    • Re:Disc layout? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by puppetman ( 131489 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:45PM (#4544977) Homepage
      Good point.

      VSOSub is the standard for subtitles. Will it handle that? Often, the text is tied to the frame that it is supposed to appear in. The file is a .rar [rarsoft.com]. Will this piece of hardware be able to handle it.

      This DivX thing is way too much of a moving target for a piece of engineered hardware to be able hit. Leave it to computers.

  • How fast will it become obsolete? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by puppetman ( 131489 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:39PM (#4544953) Homepage
    We went DivX 3.11, 4.0, 5.0, and XVid, etc. This player can play DivX 4.0 and 5.0, but what about 5.03, the upcoming version? Or DivX 6? What about XVid, or old 3.11 movies you have kicking around?

    But video is only a small part of the puzzle. Of the hundred or so DivX "backups" I have, only half have MP3 audio. A big chunk have ogg (and ogg is probably the most popular for new movies), and a few have AC3.

    My point boils down to this: I spend alot of time watching movies encoded in DivX. I even do some encoding. With a PC that is almost infinately upgradable, with all the DivX sites out there offering support, I still have trouble playing some movies.

    Some machine with hard-coded firmware is not going to make the grade.

    If you want to watch DivX on your tv, then get one of these things. [tomshardware.com] That's what I did - it's a stereo, DVD player, and it plays DivX in all it's formats. It sits under the TV, is plugged into the 100 megabit network, and makes life very simple. We don't even have cable any more.
    • Unfort not. The article says,

      "The KiSS DP-450, set for release in late October, will enable playback of videos encoded in DivX versions 4.xx and 5.xx."

      I have about 20 3.11 movies that would be useless.
      • DivX 3.11 wan't legit. They didn't program anything to make it, all they did was hack the Microsoft MPEG-4 v3 codec to make it work with AVI files. So there would be a mess of liscencing issues since it's MS's stuff, not the DivX's team's stuff. Also, the MS MPEG4v3 codec really isn't MPEG-4 compliant (it's proprietary, huge suprise there) so an MPEG-4 deocder can't deal with it.
      • I have about 20 3.11 movies that would be useless.

        Of course, you can always re-rip these movies since you DO own the DVDs. So its no big deal. Then again, why would you rip your DVDs to DivX to play on your DVD player?

        I apologize if your movies are made legally from home video/backed up VHS/etc.. but I doubt thats the case.
    • If they stuck with standards like ISMA MPEG-4 instead of hacks like DivX, devices wouldn't become obsolete as quickly.

      (Before someone whines, DivX is not standard MPEG-4. The standard specifies MPEG-4 video and AAC audio in a .mp4 container, while DivX is MPEG-4 video and MP3 audio in an AVI container.)
    • DiVX is just fucked for having so many incompatible versions. I used to think they were the future of online video, now I use Sorenson. At least with Quicktime, as long as someone has version 5, you KNOW they will be able to play your video.

  • Hmm... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by LamerBunny ( 613373 )
    Seems to me, that at the prices people are willing to pay for these things, some pretty good new computer-screens could be bought. That's my way of watching DVDs and DivX movies - I simply use my good old trusty computer.

    I know there are a lot of tech-geeks who are sooo excited about this, but I simply cannot se the charm OR the advantages over:

    1. A cheap, LOW NOISE computer with video-out, that can easily fit behind or besides your tv.

    2. A VERY big flat-screen for you computer so that you can simply use that as a substitute.

    Well... I guess I am biased in a way since I have my computer near my couch, and linked to both my 5.1 sound system and my stereo... Uhh... and... by the way (I think no one beat me to it): Imagine a Beo... naahh... nevermind ;-)

    - Tha LamerBunny...

  • Coming soon: Valenti's anti-DivX speech. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Rai ( 524476 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:46PM (#4544982) Homepage
    I guess Valenti will be revising his anti-VCR speech from decades ago to attack this.

  • man this is confusing (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:49PM (#4544998)
    we've got VCD, DVD, DeCSS, MPEG4, Dvix, DVIX, DviX, DviX;-), DviX B-], DviX (_)(_)=D, god knows what else!!

    I bought a DVD player the other day, it was plastered with acronyms. MP3/DVD/CD/VCD/CDR/CDRW.......

    This alphabet soup is pretty damn confusing.

    Look, let's cut to the chase. All I want to do is pirate DVDs and trade them with other people like I do MP3 files. Why do I have to learn all this? When will somebody give me Point&Click piracy tools, like Apple's iTunes?
  • A lot of people seem to be concerned about if these divx enabled dvd players are codec-updateable when a new version of divx codec is released. Frankly as long as people follow standards there shouldn't be any problem.

    The thing with mpeg-standards (divx is a subset of mpeg-4) is that they do not specify encoders, only decoders. That means that as long as a video stream is decodable by a standard decoder it is valid. Since mpeg compression relies hevily on the deficiencies in our visual systems it is really the tricks employed at encoder level that make the difference in quality (ie. discarding redundant information).

    I've gotten the impression that divx has just gotten more standards compliant with every increment version and has picked up some useful tricks for greating a better bitrate/quality ratio. As long as they stick to mpeg-4 compliance and the decoder chips are also standards compliant there shouldn't be any problems with future versions of the divx codec.
    • But then if people dont follow whatever standards you're talking about, it doesnt matter. Anyone else unnable to play many recent movies encoded in 5.02 because the latest linux release is still 5.01?
      • Yeh.. but like I said. Divx is a subset of mpeg-4 standard. For every increment version they seem to get more compliant. They might have upgraded their encoders and decoders together and implemented some mpeg-4 feature that was not in 5.01. That doesn't mean they're not standards compliant but that they might be even more so. The key here is that a decoder needs to be as compliant as possible.

    • Do worry. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Kjella ( 173770 )
      The Kiss DP-450 at least, is using the same chip as the Sigma plug-in card (EM 8500). It supports "Simple Profile", but only partially supports "Advanced Simple Profile" (hey, I didn't make those names). B-frames are among the supported features, QPEL and GMC (as featured in DivX 5.x) is NOT, unless they've managed to do some miracle partial software emulation. Despite their claims of full Divx4/5 support, I don't believe it till I see it, as it's either CPU or chip, not both.

      Eother way, don't expect DivX3.11 to work. It's not MPEG4 compliant (neither is DivX4 I think, but so close that it's no problem supporting it). Xvid will work in its *current* state. When they add QPEL/GMC, it wlll no longer work.

      The chip has *some* mpeg-4 complience. But I'll wait for a full-featured one that won't be obsolete so quickly.

      Kjella

  • Probing the market! (Score:3, Informative)

    by krazyninja ( 447747 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @10:52PM (#4545015)
    Kiss-tech recently announced [yahoo.com] that they will also support MPEG-4 using Sigma design's chip. It is most likely that this product also uses a single chip ASIC solution, which is not programmable. Looks like they are trying to probe the market for all the next generation codecs out there.

    Has any comparison of these three codecs (DivX, MPEG-4, H.264) been done anywhere, comprehensively?

    • As far as I understand it DivX 5 is a mpeg-4 codec.

      I am not a video guru so anyone who is feel free to elaborate.

      DivX is the maker, mpeg4 is the standard. This is not to be confused with DivX 3, which is not mpeg4.

      Just as many automobile companies make trucks with different qualities, many different companies make mpeg4 codecs.

      DivX 5 encoding rocks, BTW and works with mencoder under Linux. I tried encoding video with almost every type of encoder availible under Linux and DivX 5 gave the highest quality per file size.

      I tried to post some numbers from my tests but the stupid "submit" program called it "garbage" and wouldn't take it (I could mark it up in HTML but I feel like going to bed instead :))
    • It will even write MP4 files if you tell it to. Get an AAC encoder and a muxer and you can use that video output to make genuine MP4 streams just like Quicktime.
  • I think this is a good step, as I'd like to have a DVD player that plays whatever format I put in it. But, why DiVX? I have plenty of DiVX files, and have also deleted many DiVX files because the video codec and audio codec don't necessarily have anything to do with one another.

    I never encode in DiVX anymore, as I got Quicktime 6, and much prefer Apple's MPEG4 audio and video. Clear, clean, and works on anything supporting Quicktime 6, which is a pretty broad group. I know, support the cause and all, but when I download a DiVX file, I have to cross my fingers hoping to have the proper subset of every codec in existence to get it to play. Mp3, windows media audio, mpeg2, and scary ones ive never heard of. Yes, this is from experience, not speculation.

    I think the main issue here is although DiVX is widely used, and based around mpeg4, is it a standard by any means?! In the recent past, the DiVX group has certainly made some progress in solidifying their product, but this doesn't change what already exists in distribution.

  • That's the melodious wails of Jack Valenti screaming bloody murder. Oh wait a second, he did that the moment smart geeks discovered TMPGEnc and similar tools for making high quality VCDs out of DivXs to watch on their DVD players.....

  • DiVX SOLD OUT. (Score:3, Informative)

    by fandelem ( 559908 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @11:26PM (#4545159) Homepage
    Shall I repeat this for those who are not aware?

    DIVX SOLD OUT TO MPAA.

    DRM will be embedded within DiVX. It's pointless now.

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/04/224621 9&mode=nested&tid=126 [slashdot.org]

    and

    http://news.com.com/2100-1023-875988.html [com.com]

    k.

  • And if you can live without the compression, cherrypi points out this surprisingly favorable review of perhaps the cheapest (under $200) portable DVD player

    Sorry to break this to you, but regular DVD format (mpeg-2) also uses compression :)

    YA BIG STUPID HEAD!

  • "DivX DVD Players Arrive"

    I thought Slashdot had gone back in time a few years heh.

    I wonder if that'll spark a trademark dispute...
  • On a side note, the MPAA just had a collective heart attack.
  • I know most people think of DiVX/XVid/MPEG4 as a tool to pass video around on the net at (relatively) low-bandwidth rates. But what I want to see is a standalone player that will support HDTV-level resolution. I have an HDTV capture card (or two) that I use to record broadcast HDTV as well as PPV, HBO and Showtime shows in high-def. I want to make DiVX DVDs of this high-def material - I want at least an hour of 1280x720 or 1920x1080i (really 1080p @ 24fps, which is just about the same as 1080i) on one DVD-R that I can play without having to use my computer.

    If you haven't seen LoTR in high-def, you are missing out. Word is the new director's cut is going to be PPV once the DVDs are out. For a $5 PPV, that's way better picture quality than anything commercially available on DVD.

  • Seems to me, this is doomed from the start. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by NetRanger ( 5584 ) on Sunday October 27, 2002 @11:54PM (#4545268) Homepage
    As many people have pointed out, the codec is frequently updated. Therefore, many of the to-be-released videos will not play on DVD players that you buy today.

    So why not create a new standard, analogous to the VideoCD format, that incorporates the codec algorithm into the disc headers? Thus all that we need is a universal decoder that will look for the codec in the first sectors of the disc.

    +=o [b]RoboNerd[/b] o=+

  • Sticking with a computer (Score:4, Insightful)

    by LoudMusic ( 199347 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @12:44AM (#4545462)
    I think it's really cool what they're doing with "set-top boxes" (is that he right term). I mean, a stereo unit that plays mp3s from a hard drive, or CD, or even from the network (I own an AudioTron). And these things are going to be REALLY cool ... but exactly who would own them? The people that have DivX files to play on them aren't going to be paying money for hardware to play them. They already have a computer that plays them, and probably an easy way of connecting it to their television set. Mp3 players for stereo units have a bigger market because there simply are more people who can use them.

    In addition to that, there are so many non-standards that are changing so fast that I prefer to just build a good computer to sit in the stereo cabinate and use a wireless keyboard and mouse at the couch. With S-Video and optical audio outputs, I don't really need to worry about secondary hardware because my computer does everything I need. With a network connection to a file server, the geek world needs nothing more.

  • Portable Info (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cyberllama ( 113628 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @12:58AM (#4545501)
    From what little I can gather, that portable seems to be a shinco OEM. My guess is it's probably the Dvd-960 model which has been sold by RCA for around 400 dollars in the states for some time (I think it can be had for as little as 300 now though). I own one of these units and I must say it's quite impressive for the price, ESPECIALLY if you're into downloading anime (fansubbed and unlicensed of course, nothing illegal) and you'd like to watch it away from your computer. I actually bought mine JUST for vcds/svcds and consider the DVD capabillity to be a bonus. Just don't buy it for the mp3 playback, it bites (all songs start about 4-5 seconds into it, no idea why it skips first few seconds, and the on-screen display only shows 8.3 filenames).

  • DivX 3.11 Support (Score:5, Informative)

    by Cyberllama ( 113628 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @01:03AM (#4545518)
    I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall when divx first came out and people said there would NEVER be a commercially available stand-alone divx player becuase divx 3 was cobbled together from bits of microsoft code and thus violated their copyrights. Since then it became an open source project and has been rewritten from scracth. Hence, although versions 4 and 5 would be legal, a divx 3 decoding player would not be.

  • Legitimate usage? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by chrysalis ( 50680 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:56AM (#4545753) Homepage
    That device is just a DivX _player_ .

    In fact, there's even no standalone DivX recorder on the market yet. Neither can you buy DivX movies on CD's anywhere.

    So, a DivX player is only useful for people who have a computer, a CD burner, and a collection of movies stolen through P2P networks.

    Because people bought a computer, they think that they can get everything for free. Free software is one thing, but movies are another thing. Making a movie costs a lot of money. I don't understand why just because someone wastes $500 in a computer and $30/mo in connectivity, he must be granted the right to freely copy an unlimited number of movies. He's not. The right to see movies is the same for everybody. Computer owners are not a special privileged class of people. Devices like DivX players just make people think that sharing DivX has nothing to do with piracy. That's bad.

    Also [paranoid mode on] as buyers are likely to have an illegal collection of movies, if you ever buy those standalone DivX players, don't pay by check nor CC.

    • DivX on CDs is a great way to record and distribute home video. My parents want to see their grandkid. I have a camcorder. Trouble is, they live halfway around the planet. It's easy to duplicate and mail DivX video on CDs, and it would be great if my not-all-computer-savvy relatives owned DVD players that happened to play DivX.

    • Re:Legitimate usage? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by entrigant ( 233266 )
      Then there's people like me who record TV shows to divx. I'm not breaking the law anymore than someone with a VCR recording their favorite shows. I'm not pirating. How dare you place me into a stereotype just because I like to use good compression formats.

      Now don't get me wrong I understand as well as anyone divx, like mp3, is primarily used for piracy on the web. Now of course a statement like that usually gets a ton of flames in reply as ppl scream and shout "where's your proof?!" People seem to get very defensive when you point out the reality of situations. However just load up pretty much any public p2p network (i.e. kazaa) and look around for 10 seconds, and you get the idea ;).

      However, I rip my own CD's to mp3 (god what I'd give for portable ogg players and for my Audiotron to support ogg). I record my own tv shows (i.e. I don't even download those... 'cept for buffy svcd's from usenet.. and even then I only get the ones that haven't been released on DVD, and purchase the boxed sets as they do). I don't rip DVD's as that kills quality... I just copy the DVD's and decrypt them for backup purposes, and to be able to play the dvd's straight to the hard disk. However it can be pretty expensive getting enough space to copy season boxed set of X show after another :). I've never used CloneCD or no-CD/fix SafeDisc hacks as I know how to take care of a CD and own my games.

      Bah.. I should really just stop talking now. I just wanted to point out people like me do exist, and this set top divx4 player is just what I've been asking for. Now all I ask for is ogg vorbis playback support and a tv tuner card with hardware divx4 encoding.

      P.S. I also use divx for home recordings.

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