Archos Jukebox Multimedia Reviewed

An anonymous reader points to Richard Menta's review of the Archos Jukebox Multimedia (mentioned in this earlier Slashdot posting). Here's a snippet from the review: "Right now my wife and I are watching an old episode of a TV show no longer broadcast in our area or available tape. How are we watching it? We are playing it off of a 9oz. MP3 player -- where I have digitally stored the episode -- hooked up to the small TV in our room and inconspicuously placed on top."

In other news

[Junky191]

A fleet of rabid attack lawyers has been dispatched to the area regarding an alleged copyright infrigement. No comment on whether prosecutors will seek the death penalty.

Re:In other news

[The J Kid]

And in other other news the mp3 patent holders are also on the trail of Archos...

In a comment an Archos spokesman said: "We'll think about implementing that Ogg/Vorbis stuf anyway."

When asked why they hadden't thought of that in the first place the spokesman refused to comment.

Picture Quality?

[sssmashy]

Sounds great, but what kind of resolution are we talking about here? I wouldn't want to see fuzzy, pixellated video writ large on my TV screen, whether it comes from my VCR or a tiny MP3 player

choice of program

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you, but I really think it can be worth watching a quality television program with poor resolution.

By the same token, most TV shows are at best a complete and utter waste of time even if they are shown crystal clear and at 1080p.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Picture Quality?

[rco3]

The picture quality is MOST DEFINITELY not full DVD quality. See this: Archos's website [archos.com]. It's limited to "MPEG4 video compatible with DivX? (CIF format - 352x288 pixels, 25 frames/sec.)".

Thanks, but no thanks. The reviewer mentions some pixelization - I think I know why! :-)

Rob

CIF Resolution.

[Grendel Drago]

Umm. Unless you have a really nice TV, it's only displaying 352x240 NTSC or 352x288 PAL. The quality is the same as a VHS tape---if there's "pixelization", the reviewer probably means the blocking artifacts that DivX has at too-low bitrates.

--grendel drago

Re:CIF Resolution.

[rco3]

Does nice mean newer than 1940's?

The NTSC format is, as I'm sure you're aware, 525 vertical lines. An average TV shows around 480 of those. Depending on quality, an average 19" TV probably is capable of better than 500 lines of horizontal resolution - the current version of my JVC 27" is capable of over 600 lines of horizontal resolution. Depending on how the signal gets to your TV, you may (OK, will) get lower effective resolution... but the source is what we're discussing here, isn't it?

I've worked as a truck engineer in television production for the last 7 years, and regardless of what the local cable company may do to my signal you may rest assured that it's appreciably nicer than 352x240 when it goes up on the bird.

Seriously. 352x240 on my home TV? If you've got $400 to spend on an Archos Jukebox, you aren't watching an 8" B&W portable.

Re:CIF Resolution.

[rco3]

That should, of course, read, "525 lines of vertical resolution". I should proofread better.

Re:CIF Resolution.

[sambo99]

I own an archos mm, and about a week ago I gave up on watching movies using the archos. It just involves way too many steps, and the quality is not perfect.

1. First you have to source the movie
2. Then you have to convert it to a divx avi. not any divx will do, it has to have the exact divx format supported by the ajmm. archos recommend using virtualdub. virtualdub does not remember your last settings so you have to reload the settings from a file.
3. occasionally you get audio syncage issues - to get a video right it may take a few encodes.
4. if the picture is too big it will not work
5. transferring a movie into the ajmm over usb 1 takes quite a while, I have still not got the usb 2.0 cable. and have not bothered chasing archos about it, yet.

So what do I do? If there is a movie I want to watch on my tv, I will drag it into nero and burn to vcd. works almost every time on my dvd player.

I use my ajmm to listen to music, sound quality is perfect, provided you throw the headphones archos bundles in the bin, and buy new ones.

I use my ajmm as a file taxi, if i need to take any large files to my friends place. the ajmm requires no driver installation under windows xp. that is fantastic.

I will be using my ajmm to download pictures from my sony memory stick while traveling. Have tested the whole process and it appears to be working (*the dsc-f707 has the option of saving a thumbnail with normal shots - watching large res pictures on the archos is painful cause rendering is too slow - so ill be using that option)

I love my ajmm, with all its quirks. and no other device out there can play mp3s perfectly and copy files from my memory stick directly.

Re:CIF Resolution.

[NeMon'ess]

5. transferring a movie into the ajmm over usb 1 takes quite a while, I have still not got the usb 2.0 cable. and have not bothered chasing archos about it, yet.

Just because you didn't order the USB 2.0 cable when you bought it doesn't make it a valid step 5 complaint. You should have put it before step 1.

What do you mean by step 4? You set the resolution when you make the file. How can you foul this up? Do you mean filesize?

Re:CIF Resolution.

[sambo99]

Just because you didn't order the USB 2.0 cable when you bought it doesn't make it a valid step 5 complaint. You should have put it before step 1.

Very valid, for me, nero burns a cd faster than usb 1. The latest on the usb 2.0 cable is there is a kit out there that costs $50 [archos.com].

Come on I forked out $440 already on my ajmm and was under the impression I was going to get the usb 2.0 cable bundled in.

What do you mean by step 4? You set the resolution when you make the file. How can you foul this up? Do you mean filesize?

I forget to go to Filters... Add -> Resize -> 352*(I forget what to put here so I have to look it up on the archos site)

My bad - I know - but it keeps on happening - thus a problem for me

Re:CIF Resolution.

[Patik]

and no other device out there can play mp3s perfectly

Are you serious? Ever heard of an iPod? Creative Nomad? I tested an Archos for use as an MP3 player, and I think I'd rather listen to dusty scratched LPs. I've never heard sound quality that bad before. And that's with the bass down -- don't even think about turning it up to 0dB.

Re:CIF Resolution.

[plumby]

However, a standard VHS tape still only records 200 lines. You can get SVHS video recorders that do 400 lines, but that's still well short of the 525 lines of US TVs, and even further short of the 625 that UK TVs support. Most people are used to the picture quality that they get from their VHS videos, so they shouldn't be too disappointed with the Archos.

Re:CIF Resolution.

[darien]

VHS is analogue, though, so the loss of resolution merely softens the image a bit. I imagine pixelisation is rather more annoying.

Re:CIF Resolution.

[rco3]

200 lines that VHS records is horizontal resolution, and really oughta be more like 250 lines. That means that as the little beam scans from left to right it can make 250 dots in a single line. 525 lines, however, is the number of those horizontal lines that exist in the picture. Your TV probably shows 480 of them. This means that what you see, on the screen, when playing a VHS tape is about 480x250 (or 200, if you orefer).

Summary: You've confused lines of horizontal resolution with the number of horizontal lines. It's easy to do. Comparing 200 lines to 525 lines is not correct.

Re:CIF Resolution.

[shepd]

>Unless you have a really nice TV, it's only displaying 352x240 NTSC or 352x288 PAL.

Ohhh boy that's not right.

First of off, there's no horizontal resolution at all on TVs.

Next of all, you are talking about the resolution of the field rate (1 per 60 Hz). But TVs are doublescanning. They mix an even and an odd field by drawing them alternately fast enough that the glowing phosphor for one field mix into the glowing phosphor of the other.

The full (30 Hz) frame rate delivers 525 lines of resolution (for NTSC, slightly higher lines and lower rate for PAL).

Any TV that only displays one frame is going to make "mice text" (lawyer notes for commercials) unreadable. And it will cost a lot more to ignore those extra frames -- why bother?

Now, if your TV is out of focus or otherwise broken, I believe you. But most TVs aren't.

And it doesn't take much to see these lines. I can usually see them on any TV larger than 35".

Re:CIF Resolution.

[FlemLion]

Before ordering on of these MultiMedia players, my idea of the resolution was not that high either. Thought of the postage time stamp videos on the net.
Having it for some time now, I must say that I am pleasantly surprised. The viewing quality is indeed at least the same as a VHS tape, even on a 70cm sceen TV. There is a requirement for that however, the DivX needs a sufficiently high bitrate (have been using round 1000 myself) and preferably encoded directly to the correct size. Transcoding or lower bitrates are indeed visible with the typical artifacts.
It seems this little box has quite a nice analog out, which shows the same AVI a lot better on a TV than you can ever get on a PC, at least with the nVidia chips I've used so far.

Re:Picture Quality?

[orkysoft]

That resolution is PAL VideoCD resolution, and it's not so bad, actually. It's comparable to a VHS tape. Assuming the bits-per-second is comparable to that of a VCD, and a clean source, it should look quite tolerable.

U == TEH THEIF!

[Anonymous Coward]

Right now my wife and I are watching an old episode of a TV show no longer broadcast in our area or available tape. How are we watching it? We are playing it off of a 9oz. MP3 player -- where I have digitally stored the episode -- hooked up to the small TV in our room and inconspicuously placed on top.

Hey, tell us about the time you robbed a liquour store too. "Because, shucks, that brand of booze wasn't available in my area, so, gee, I decided to STEAL SOME."

Take your copyrite infringmeent tools elsewhere, pirate. Good thing oyu didn't say what show it was or the feds'll be no-knocking your ass in no time flat!

I know what you're saying, as you nervously look down at your shoes and sweat: but officer, we watched the commercials, and it was such an old show....

DOESN'T MATTER! You're in possession of a device that can fAST FORWARD over commercials! Even if you never push the fast forwrd button, it means you're a criminal, just like the DC sniper, who's taken EIGHT INNOCENT LIVES already!

WHEN WILL YOU THEIVES LEARN?

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Usage.

[Grendel Drago]

Yeah, but if they had the DVD, why wouldn't they be watching that?

However, if they'd had them on VHS tapes, because they'd (legally) taped them off reruns, then I for one would rather archive them on my local fileserver and load them onto the little beastie to play them back more conveniently.

I mean, both are possible; the second one just seems more likely---and a really good use for these devices. Market! Market!

--grendel drago

Actually You're NOT a THIEF!! Watch at superspeed

[spineboy]

Even if you watch the commercial at 10x speed you're stil watching it. May the law can be circumvented by burst compressing commercials into 1 second bursts - that way you're still "watching" the commercial. Epileptics may have a few problems though...

Re:U == TEH THEIF!

[PaddyM]

You cannot repeat the word "pirate" or phrase "fAST FORWARD over commercials" without the express written consent of the MPAA!

Re:U == TEH THEIF!

[sgtron]

Heh, I'm glad this comment got modded at +5 funny rather than -1 flamebait as usually happens when moderaters can't understand a joke when it's being told.

As if...

[Khaed]

The RIAA and MPAA weren't going apeshit with lawyers before. I can see it now.
"They have players that can play video for hours now. Soon, they'll have them that can play all year long!" - Jack Valenti, 2003

No video in :-(

[fetta]

If only it had a "video in" connection - it would be ideal for catching up on your TV watching while your flying cross-country. I suppose that aside from any legal issues, video encoding would be more intensive than the audio encoding that it does support.

Re:No video in :-(

[johnty]

actually, there *used* to be a vcr module planned... but i think the good old copyright issue killed it.

Re:No video in :-(

[3583 Bytes Free]

It certainly sounds like it will have a video in connection add-on:

As we mentioned before, the Jukebox Multimedia will soon have a module - pictured on the left - to allow video recording. This does not comes without some added controversy (like the trading movies and music files are not controversial enough). Right now the Music, Film and TV industries are trying to push a bill in congress that would make it illegal to use digital recorders the same way we use our VCRs. They have decided that the Supreme Court's Betamax ruling (that says taping you favorite TV shows for later viewing does not constitute copyright infringement) shouldn't apply to digital recorders.

Re:No video in :-(

[Syvwlch]

There is a Video In accessory. With it, you can record video directly to the unit's HD. I've ordered it, but unfortunately it is on backlog. Gee, I wonder why it is THAT popular. Oh, and a USB 2 accessory is also available. Get one, plain old USB is just too slow or moving media files in and out of this thing.

Re:No video in :-(

[Inigo Montoya]

It's no different than my DV cam, with video in, that can store hour long movies on little DV cartridges that I can carry around. My cam is just about as small too.

Sure the Archos stores more, and accesses it faster... but it's still just the same! When will the RIAA and MPAA figure this out?

Re:No video in :-(

[Syvwlch]

The difference with your DV cam is that the video is encoded directly in DivX, ready to be shared over P2P file sharers, rather than stored in a cassette tape that can only be read on dedicated hardware...

Neato...

[geekindustries]

I want one of these. Although I probably wouldn't really use it that much, I could still impress all my friends. Oh! Just think about the hilarity that would ensue if you bought this for your stupid cow-orker or your PHB. Hehe.

20 Gig, eh?

[antisocial77]

I have more mp3s than that as it is. I could get this as a juke box, but then what the hell am I supposed to do with my pr0n and episodes of Serial Experiments Lain?

Oh, wait, my graphics card has TV out, and I can run audio from my PC to my stereo, and switch between the two. Nevermind.

VCR's

[asv108]

Right now the Music, Film and TV industries are trying to push a bill in congress that would make it illegal to use digital recorders the same way we use our VCRs. They have decided that the Supreme Court's Betamax ruling (that says taping you favorite TV shows for later viewing does not constitute copyright infringement) shouldn't apply to digital recorders.

How the hell would the Supreme courts decision regarding taping TV shows not apply to digital recorders? Does the MPAA expect there to be Supreme Court case for every format that comes out? There Supreme court would spend 1/2 its time dealing with formats: (S-VHS, DAT, MPG, Quicktime, etc.) IANAL, but I would imagine the previous decision covers the act of recording a show for later personal use and is not related to what format or media it is recorded on.

Re:VCR's

[JonWan]

The problem is that the Congress critters don't get it. They think "Digital is Different". Untill that changes, laws will be passed to stop first sale and fair use. I just hope someone has the money to take these laws to the Supreme court and the court figures out that the Congress is going too far.

From the betamax ruling:

[therealmoose]

In summary, the record and findings of the District Court lead us to two conclusions. First, Sony demonstrated a significant likelihood that substantial numbers of copyright holders who license their works for broadcast on free television would not object to having their broadcasts time- shifted by private viewers. And second, respondents failed to demonstrate that time-shifting would cause any likelihood of nonminimal harm to the potential market for, or the value of, their copyrighted works. The Betamax is, therefore, capable of substantial noninfringing uses. Sony's sale of such equipment to the general public does not constitute contributory infringement of respondents' copyrights.

This doesn't seem to restrict based upon the type of the device very much.

Re:From the betamax ruling:

[Babbster]

Exactly. If it were a ruling based on format or type of device, then they should have brought it up in relation to VHS. Since they didn't, I doubt that they can do much in the judicial system to get the case looked at again.

Of course, that is not to say that new or revised laws cannot be implemented to restrict recording (it probably could have been done and applied to VHS and Betamax way back when). If Congress changes the copyright law to make time-shifting illegal on digital OR analog devices, the court probably cannot do anything about it since such a law would probably (?) not be a constitutional violation.

The moral of the story? WRITE YOUR CONGRESS CRITTERS!

That's nothing!

[orkysoft]

This evening, I watched a brand-new episode of a brand-new tv series, which I had digitally stored on an ordinary CD-R disc, on an ordinary DVD player! ;-)

your wife ...

[s20451]

Right now my wife and I are watching an old episode of a TV show no longer broadcast in our area or available tape. How are we watching it?

What does your wife think of you submitting a story to Slashdot while allegedly wating TV with her?

"No, honey I do not love that computer more than you." Please, please don't ask about the laptop ...

Pocket Pr0n

[grub]

To the tune of Drugs in My Pocket

I've got pr0ns in my pocket,
and I don't know what to do with them
chorus:pr0ns in my pocket.. pr0ns in my pocket..

With apologies to The Monks [ndirect.co.uk]

yeah it's a slooow Saturday night here. :)

20gig?

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

Make it 80 gigs, add some TiVo software with a bluetooth basestation attached to the cable box, and this can record shows whenever it's laying around the house.

To dream a little further, integrate an iPod and Palm OS, add a build in projector, make it float in the tub and usable in the shower (pr0n?).

Re:20gig?

[Cyno01]

for video 20gig does seem a bit small, i have an archos jukebox studio 20, i havn't bothered to find out whats in it, but its probably just a laptop drive (about the right size) and you can get laptop drives larger than 20gigs so why dont these things come in larger sizes?

Why is the display a predefined color?

[Kelmenson]

Argh. I've been trying to check these out, but I wanted to make sure I have a unit that would match the dashboard lighting scheme of my car so it integrates well. I figured that a unit with a color LCD would let me pick the color that the text displays... But they force the text to be Yellow on Black? Why not make that be configurable? Oh well, looks like its back to the iPod with a cellophane screen attached... Too bad, because this unit really looked like it had some impressive functionality. I was willing to overlook the somewhat funky Archos hardware appearance. Bah.

Why the stealth?

[Heynow21]

I don't understand why it was necessary to be inconspicuous in your placing of the device. Were there Iraqi agents lurking about? I've heard you can use playstations as missile targetting computers, so perhaps your mp3 player could be fitted to a "laser" enabling you to control it with sound of your voice. Diabolical...

finally

[Nihilanth]

This unit has been availible for a while, i'm glad to see it finally getting the attention it deserves. I got kinda sick of pulling out my archos at a party, only to be asked if it was an ipod. UGH! I've used two incarnations of the archos jukebox, most recently the video capable described in the article, but if that's a bit too expensive for you, there's a 20GB MP3 player made by archos for only around 240-250 (i originally got mine for 300ish with shipping, but that was a while ago), and a 10GB MP3 player/recorder for around the same price range (they even cary these at radioshack, if you want to play with one before paying for it).

The thought i'd like to leave you with is...buy one before they are outlawed! buy two! This may be the second-to-last, third-to-last, heck, maybe even last wave of these devices without DRM built in. Enjoy it while it lasts.

USB 1.1

[NeuroKoan]

USB 1.1
20 GB
.
..
...
....
.....

'nuff said.

I've never used it, but it'd probably be okay if you set this thing to sync up before you went to sleep at night. Everything might finally get uploaded by the time you wake up!

Re:USB 1.1

[XaXXon]

err, did you read the article beyond the first paragraph? It SHIPS with a 1.1 cable, but it supports USB2.0 *AND* IEEE1394.

Please read *carefully* before posting.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Re:USB 1.1

[NeuroKoan]

I know it supports firewire and USB 2.0 adapters, but it sucks that you gotta buy them separetly. If i'm gonna spend $300+ I don't want to have to buy another adapter just to get reasonable speeds.

Besides as far as I recall the firewire cable is still "in development"

Re:USB 1.1

[NeMon'ess]

Not everyone has USB 2.0. Why ship it with a more expensive cable not everyone will be able to use? From a cost standpoint it makes more sense to buy the modules separately.

Re:USB 1.1

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

1) Don't read article at all, ignoring USB 2.0 adapter.

2) ???

3) Post on slashdot!

Re:USB 1.1

[Babbster]

So you would watch or listen to 20GB worth of material on the Archos every day? That's an impressive amount of free (wasted) time you have available to you.

The reality (duh) is that you people don't require Firewire or USB since it's likely that a lot of the space will be taken up over time with files that you will leave on there all the time. Beyond that, what's the big deal about hooking the thing up and walking away while it's synching? Even if you want to use the computer, it shouldn't be taking up so much processor time that you can't do other things.

In summary, you're not too bright and you owe whomever modded you as "interesting" some sort of sexual favor. :)

Wouldn't It Be Nice...

[reallocate]

...if all the energy that goes into turning computers into expensive storage devices for throw-away pop rubbish, as well as all the energy that goes into those ego-boosting pyrhic fusilades against "the Man", went into creating some really original and useful software?

I'm tired of all the pompous ranting by both sides of the argument. I don't care of Richard Stallman writes the bloody code himself, or if Microsoft makes me turn over a DNA sample. I don't want to turn my computer into a jukebox any more than I want to turn my TV into a computer.

Both sides should shut up and get on with it.

Re:Wouldn't It Be Nice...

[sgtron]

I don't want to turn my computer into a jukebox any more than I want to turn my TV into a computer.

Ok, so don't. but don't bitch when other people do want to.

Re:Wouldn't It Be Nice...

[reallocate]

I don't care what anyone does with their toys. I'm just annoyed that the focus of both the open and closed software industries seems to be on turning PC's into glorified boom boxes. It's not like the music or the programming is worth all the fuss in the first place.

It's all a waste.

Re:Wouldn't It Be Nice...

[fliplap]

What about the simpsons?

Tivo compatible?

[PDG]

This would nice with a interface to Tivo/ReplayTV so you could simply sync up the two together.

Better Design

[Cpt_Kirks]

Dell is about to release a 300mhz Xscale PocketPC device for $199. If they put one of these tiny 20GB drives in something like the Dell toy, along with a couple of CF slots and USB/Firewire, I wonder how much they could sell it for?

Does a CF TV tuner card exist?

Anybody used their audio recorder?

[dubl-u]

I'm thinking of getting their audio recorder version to use for interviews and whatnot.

I'm sure some slashdotters must have purchased one; what do they think of the audio recording features? Is the sound good? Is the interface good? What's good and bad about it?

Re:Anybody used their audio recorder?

[Syvwlch]

The recorded sound is very good, @ 128kbps. The only issue is that you hear the drive spinning up and docking if you use the internal mic. Archos sell a preamplified stereo mic (external), and with that, the sound couldn't be better, as far as recording voice is concerned. But if you already do interviews, i suppose you already have a good mic lying around...

Battery time?

[TripleA]

Has anyone got any info on how long you can use the unit for wathing video? I know the display is really small, but it's better than nothing when sitting on a long distance flight not showing a movie. 1.5" 237 x 238 pixels isn't a dream, but, better then nothing.

Re:Battery time?

[Syvwlch]

I can testify that you can watch at least two full length feature films with it, and still have over a third of a charge left. Haven't flown transatlantic since I got one, so haven't tested it to battery death yet. Archos say you can last 8 hours, and judging from experience, the truth must be very close. I did test the MP3 only Jukebox before I upgraded, and it does play MP3s for more than 8 hours straight. Including after dozens of charge cycles.

I wouldn't want the camera bit!

[gfim]

The camera option offers a 1.3 pixel resolution and 2x zoom

That's a bit low res for my needs!

Graham

Last Post!

[alpg]

One thing they don't tell you about doing experimental physics is that
sometimes you must work under adverse conditions... like a state of sheer
terror.
-- W.K. Hartmann

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...