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Hardware

Tiny Integrated Home Theater PC w/Display 120

Posted by CowboyNeal from the home-brew-still-sweet dept.
Mark J. Foster writes "After searching for a solution that would let me control my home theater PC without disturbing the video to the projector, I finally decided to roll my own. I've integrated a Shuttle SS40G, with a Xenarc 700Y RGB-interfaced 800x480 TFT widescreen LCD: The fully-integrated package looks like this. For full details, check out my 'Special Edition' Shuttle 40G." This machine reminds me of the "lunchbox" style of PCs, but this one's got a much smaller footprint. Excellent mod.
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Tiny Integrated Home Theater PC w/Display More

Tiny Integrated Home Theater PC w/Display

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  • Microwave! (Score:4, Funny)

    by EuroChild ( 523969 ) on Friday September 27, 2002 @05:47AM (#4342810)
    You'd want to be careful that you didn't get this confused with your microwave... although both would look great if you put a dvd in 'em and turned them on 'high'.

  • Settled down in front of my Home Theatre PC... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Boss, Pointy Haired ( 537010 ) on Friday September 27, 2002 @05:51AM (#4342821)
    ...last night, and the movie got to a really quiet romantic scene.

    I think the guy was about to propose, but I was startled by an almighty BONG and a 3 foot by 1 foot modal dialog box covering most of the screen politely informing me that a newer version of Windows Media Player was available.

    Microsoft: Don't do that.

  • Tiny is the new big. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wackybrit ( 321117 ) on Friday September 27, 2002 @05:58AM (#4342830) Homepage Journal
    In 1989, Andy Warhol said 'Tiny is the new big.' I'm inclined to agree.

    In today's society it's not what you've got, it's what you've not got and not having a 60" plasma TV with surround sound but having a 8" with two tinny speakers is what we're all aiming for.

    I applaud you, Sir. Your device looks like a cross between a 1950's kitchen appliance, a miniaturized techno fridge, and a Mac Cube, and would be at home in any quiche eating Pascal programmer or Mac user's home.

    • Re:Tiny is the new big. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MartyC ( 85307 ) on Friday September 27, 2002 @06:06AM (#4342847) Homepage
      I think you've missed something The tiny screen is just for controlling the DVD playback while he sends the full movie picture to a projector for full massive movie viewing.
      • Actually, he states you can watch a movie on the LCD -- and shows a snapshot of the Shuttle actually showing a Columbia Pictures image.

        It echos out to a larger display as well.

        Well, this guy outdid me. I was just going to put an LED display in the floppy drive opening on my Shuttle. Darn. Now I have to get competitive.
    • In today's society it's not what you've got, it's what you've not got and not having a 60" plasma TV with surround sound but having a 8" with two tinny speakers is what we're all aiming for.

      See here sir, I do believe you are wrong with this one.. but close... Ya See.. While i find the little shuttle modified box and excellent MOD, & would love to have one/build one as it has a nice form factor..
      There is also somthing to be said for a 60" inch flatscreen and nice 6.1 surround sound system with extremely rich sound.
      It basically depends on the use.. Sometimes Bigger is Better.. sometimes not...(ok make comments on that one guys)

      We can have the best of bothworlds and this MOD shows off the best of the little world for sure.. Still no way i'm gutting apart my ss51 thoe.. i love that thing!

    • Hi, WackyBrit!

      It is truly an odd juxtaposition: one screen 7", one screen 122". The asymmetry leads one to occasional flights of fancy: is it possible that our primary preference is neither the small nor the large, but that instead we quest passionately to escape the median, the middle, the mundane?

      Whatever that was all about, this is a fun little toy!

      Cheers1
      MarkF
    • One small nit; Warhol died February 22, 1987 after gall bladder surgery.
    • was mocking the fashion demi-mondain slogan ____ is the new ____ and the play of substitution that constitutes fashion. If you give a bit of thought, I think you'll agree that Andy was not saying anything in particular about big or tiny.
      • If you give a bit of thought, I think you'll agree that Andy was not saying anything in particular about big or tiny.

        Hmmm... Regardless of Warhol's intent, it's easy to come up with a perfectly sensible interpretation of "tiny is the new big". Back before the eighties, big projects ruled: the moon landing, huge buildings, huge bridges. The expression "this is big" is rooted in this kind of mentality. But there seemed to come a time when we ran out of such noticeable big projects, or they became passe, and at about the same time electronics began causing things to shrink. Tiny things became fashionable. Some useful item that had been shrunk significantly was exciting, "big" news. Tiny had become the new big.

        If Warhol intended to come up with a ridiculous statement in order to mock fashions, he would have needed to do better than that. But perhaps he was being subtle, or perhaps he was simply ahead of his time, and tiny didn't become the new big until after 1989. I don't really remember.

  • Why??? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Friday September 27, 2002 @06:06AM (#4342848)
    The screen looks cool, the shuttle case looks cool. Why go through all the fuss? I doubt the space gained is relevant.

    For a homemade it's quite ok though.

    • Re:Why??? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Mark Foster ( 239059 ) <mfoster@tal[ ]com ['ix.' in gap]> on Friday September 27, 2002 @07:53AM (#4343233)
      Hi, QB!

      You caught me! OK, another major reason I built this was for fun - for stress relief! Having said that, I've found the integrated display so valuable for full-time monitoring of my (remotely located)) home Linux server that I haven't been able to convince myself to move this off the breakfast counter and into the home theater! I guess I'll just have to build another one!

      Have Fun!
      MarkF
      • Great job Mark -- just finished browsing the thread, and as an AVS member you should know how much hifi geeks will spend for cool equipment. If you were able to make a profit selling these at $2k then I bet they'd sell very well indeed.

        As always the limiting factor is the interface. None of the HTPC's I've seen yet have the simplicity of design that most other AV electronics do. And while a HTPC can easily replace most of a home theater setup, trying to make it usable for anyone else seems an insurmountable challenge (and yes, I have a Pronto).
  • I was at the library the other night going through some past issues of MaximumPC and ran across a great do-it-yourself article on building a home theater unit. They used a rack-mount case complete with a dvd burner and RAID to create a kickass PVR that is accessible via remote. I wasn't able to find the article online. Anyone know of any similar setups?
    • Seems like a typical thing a bad magazine would do. Elegance is not throwing hardware on the problem until it's "solved". Why would I want RAID in a PVR? Why would I want a DVD-R in a PVR? What I'd want is a small unit (preferably fanless) with a DVD reader (possibly) and a HDD for caching. And a network connection.

      The DVD recorder is in your workstation. The HDD RAID is in a fileserver.

      E.g. put a small Via EPICA MB in a box. Put a HDD and DVD reader in there as well. Hook it up to your LAN and store what you want on it. Take it with you to your neighbour and play the movies there. Take it with you to a party and use it as a small MP3/OGG jukebox.
  • I'd go for a Mini ITX [mini-itx.com] with the screen. This would yeild an even smaller solution.
    • Yeah but the shuttle has 2 PCI slots and an AGP slot.
    • GeForce4 (or multi-out video card). Extended desktop. Main video for DVD's goes out via S-Video. I can't afford the projector (I assume he paid lots for this, unless somebody knows a cheap solution), but the video goes to the TV, and the controls,etc are all on my monitor. With a wireless mouse this would be nicer still. It's still a lot cheaper than a special LCD though.

      Oh, and just because a card has TV-out, doesn't mean it has extended desktop. Another shot at ATI, for their "feature rich" All-in-wonder card that would only clone, not extend, my desktop).

      If anyone knows a cheaper solution to making your own projection system... THEN I'll be listening eagerly.

      Would you like to supersize that deathmatch? - phorm
  • This is entirely pointless - a laptop would be far more practical.

    So what? Sometimes I don't care about practicality either - I love it. The thing is simply cool.

    Cheers,
    Ian
    (still awaiting Shuttle's SN40 release...)

    • Re:Great (Score:3, Informative)

      by RedX ( 71326 )
      I've not seen many laptops that would make a good HTPC. A desktop PC with AGP and PCI ports is just more flexible for this type of thing and likely cheaper too, although the cost gap is probably a lot closer in this case with the added LCD display.
    • Hi, Ian!

      After the great compliment [Thanks!], I'm hesitant to disagree with you, but...

      For many folks, aesthetics and appearance are a big issue in their home theater. I don't want a notebook's keyboard sitting in my rack, so this form factor (to me at least), is truly better suited for the mission (with or without the mod!).

      As RedX suggests, the ability to add in a PCI-based HDTV card such as the MyHD is crucial, as well, which is why I use the Shuttle to begin with!

      Cheers!
      MarkF
  • I am currently building something similar with a mini-itx [mini-itx.com] system.
    However, in this case, I would have done the end program on a PDA like a Sony CLIE because the PC box is cumbersome and displaying big arrows can be done on a small 320x320 display as well. The PDA should talk to some device with its IR so the barebone PC could be used for that, but without any display!

    After several years of failed tentatives in home integration, I believe these applicances are going to solve the problem. Still, we need Lego to provide a "homestorm" box to build these appliances more easily!
  • I was just wondering: Why didn't you use the touchscreen model from Xenarc? It would make much more sense to do it that way.

    • Re:touch (Score:3, Informative)

      by Mark Foster ( 239059 )
      Hi, Touch!

      It's something I considered, but ultimately not to go with the touch screen for several reasons:

      1) The Acrylite GP protects the LCD

      2) I use a remote control, so I don't need the touchscreen

      3) I don't want fingerprints on my screen

      4) It looks cooler! When power management kicks in and the display power turns off, the TFT panel essentially disappears under normal room light; it's just a smooth black cube.

      Having said all that, a touchscreen version could make a lot of sense!

      Best Wishes!
      MarkF

  • Mirror of pictures (Score:3, Interesting)

    by yknott ( 463514 ) on Friday September 27, 2002 @06:23AM (#4342868) Homepage Journal
    View my mirror of the pictures here

  • Call me picky but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by goldspider ( 445116 ) on Friday September 27, 2002 @06:24AM (#4342870) Homepage
    ...there seems something very wrong with associating the word "tiny" with a "home theater".

  • Wow. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Raetsel ( 34442 ) on Friday September 27, 2002 @06:25AM (#4342874)

    The pictures I'm referring to come from ftp://ftp.talix.com/pub/screenshots/shuttle -- Mark J. Foster's FTP site. (Oooo, I'm evil for posting that address... hey, at least I didn't make it a link!)

    Mark, that thing is gorgeous!!! I love the idea, I've been thinking about small screens, just not quite like what you've put together. Bravo, well done, extraordinary work!

    (Shuttle ought to hire you to build these for them to show off / auction off at trade shows!)

    One thing I noticed, though... in ftp://ftp.talix.com/pub/screenshots/shuttle/Shuttl eBack.jpg the pile of power cables (I think there might be a power brick in there for the (external) monitor?), cords, and assorted connectors (don't forget the power strip, too!) is almost half the size of the computer itself!

    Ouch.

    Next project -- integrate a wireless keyboard & mouse, single-cable connection for the external monitor that includes power, video and audio, and a single power supply that will drive everything. (Yeah, I know, sorta like a Mac with their combined video/USB connection. Hey, I never claimed it was an original idea.)

    • Re:Wow. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Mark Foster ( 239059 ) <mfoster@tal[ ]com ['ix.' in gap]> on Friday September 27, 2002 @08:17AM (#4343364)
      Hi, Raetsel!

      Thank you very much! The cords indeed do have to go; that's one of the many reasons that this is still a work in progress (I just got the system to this stage this weekend). The power bricks you see are actually for my telephone gear, not for the monitor - the monitor power supply is fully integrated into the system, along with the switches and LEDs from both the motherboard and from the monitor. For what it's worth, the 7 switches along the bottom (from left to right) are: Monitor Power, Monitor Menu, Monitor Select, Monitor Adjust +, Monitor Adjust -, System Reset, and System Power.

      Thank you again!

      Cheers!
      MarkF

      • Mark,

        Sorry, didn't mean to imply any of those cords were for the built-in monitor. I saw how you powered that one (very slick!), and read the whole thread (as it existed a couple hours ago) on the Sudhian Forums.

        I was referring to your large, stand-alone LCD. I installed an 18" Viewsonic a couple months ago and it was powered through an external inline brick -- I couldn't tell if your large LCD had one or not.

        The computers I build are generally a little larger than yours, although I did pair a SS50 with that Viewsonic LCD. With the trend for powering peripherals from a single connection (USB-powered Zip drives, Firewire-recharging iPods), perhaps manufacturers will get their act together and figure out how to drive external LCDs from the main computer's power supply. Add to that audio and USB connections, and all you need is a single cable (likely with several connectors at the computer end). Heck, most panels max out at ~100 watts (or so), easily available from most current full-size power supplies.

        • Apple does this with the ADC (Apple Desktop Connector). It is a standard developed by IBM a while ago.

          It runs power, DVI, and usb over one cable to the monitor. The only problem is that the video card has to have a 24v connector on it also (i believe) to power the display. For people who don't have an Apple video card in their mac, or a pc, there are companies that sell an external powersupply that you run DVI + USB to, and then plug the ADC cable on the other side. I guess that is the closest you could get, unless gainward et all start designing video cards with ADC connectors and PSU adapters to power the display.

          • Well, you know, that Mac connector was my inspiration (along with their beautiful cinema displays!) and I hope that connection scheme catches on. I'm not holding my breath, though.

            ATI's Radeon 9700 draws so much power it requires a separate power connector. (The Radeon 8500DV has a power connector too, but that's for supplying power to the FireWire port.) I think one of the Voodoo cards did the same thing? At any rate, high power consumption on a video card is nothing new -- why not pass some through to the monitor as well. ATX power supplies have a +12 and a -12 line... there's your 24v potential.

            • It'll make LCDs (cheaper | easier) to manufacture, since they can leave out a more complicated power supply.

            • It'll make me happier (at least from an aesthetic perspective), since I'll have less clutter on my desk.

              Now that I think about it more, the monitor will come on when the computer is powered up -- another nice, damn easy feature. Yes, modern monitors have a power-save mode, but they still draw quite a bit of current while "saving power."

            • It'll make Grandma (or Grandpa, who has to install the newfangled thing!) happier, due to easier and more obvious installation.
            Oh, the hell with it. I'll just buy a Mac -- OS 10.2 looks really nice, I love their huge LCDs... all that's stopping me is the lack of a winning lottery ticket. (Since I view lotteries as a 'tax on stupid', I guess that's not happening.)
            • Dude, just buy a mac screen.

              and a DViAtor (i believe is its name) or just search around some mac sites. It does the power and everything seperately, so atleast it would be off the desk. (and who really cares about the clutter behind the computer, its not like i got back there too often, that is what front ports are for).

                • "Dude, just buy a mac screen."
                "Dude," no.

                The LCD panels are beautiful, the housings... well, I don't like 'em. Apple has implemented a great idea, but I'll be buying my LCD from Viewsonic or IBM.

                • "...and a DViAtor..."
                Okay, I'm trying to cut down on cables, clutter, etc., and the solution is another external box? Nope, not going to happen. Another reason not to buy an Apple LCD for a PC.
                • "...who really cares about the clutter behind the computer..."
                In Mark Foster's particular case (his pictures which inspired my original post), the computer is sitting on his breakfast counter. (In another of his posts, it sounds like it's going to stay [slashdot.org] there!) From what I see in his pictures, it looks very similar to a counter in one of my old apartments. It's open on both sides -- there's no "back." Neat is very important in a place like that.
  • ... yeah, yeah, I know... _No one_ would build a unit like this without having a real purpose.

    This gotta beat watching Pr0n on a phone!

  • Where? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Nonac ( 132029 )
    In a living room setup, where do you put this? If you put it in an entertainment center, you won't be able to read the display from the seating area. Do you put it on a table near the seating and run cables across the floor to the projector?
    • Well, perhaps it's not a hardship that you can't see it from the seating area. The idea is that during the movey you get up, go to the entertainment centre, and make the adjustments without having to keep running abck far enough to be able to read the dialog boxes ;-)

      Kinda like dual displaying PowerPoint (I'm a windows shop, get over it) on a laptop so the presenter can see what is going on without having to crane his neck round.

      Except of course, the idea is that it is incrdibly cool. Reading thru the forums, one thing caught my eye - when the screensaver kicks in and blanks the LCD, you can't tell there's a screen there at all - it just looks like a shiny cube, until you touch the mouse.

      Of course, the builder does make laptop prototypes for a living, so YMMV if you try it yourself. ;-)

      • Re:Where? (Score:3, Informative)

        by Mark Foster ( 239059 )
        Hi, Biglig2!

        For me, the A/V rack is right next to where I sit, and the projector is about 15' behind me.

        One thing I do have to say: I'm definitely not a prototype builder! I used to head up several different portable computer engineering teams, but personally I'm pretty much a klutz mechanically. This is actually the first PC I've ever modified!

        Thanks for the kudos!

        Have Fun!
        MarkF
        • Geez, this is the first PC you ever modified? First PC I ever modified was cutting out some fan covers for better airflow. It looked like ASS, but it worked. (I've gotten better now :)

          That thing looks GREAT. I would love to try my hand at one too... but it runs into the same problems as most other projects I would like to start. I have no $ or reason to start.

          Modding for the sake of modding sure is cool, but after a while it just gets... well, boring. Plus, once you are done and over the "high" from a successful mod you need to find something else to hack apart and put back together :). (I did this with my i-opened-it. I got it all done and it was like "now what?")

          Again tho... beautiful mod. Very well done.

          -paul

  • What if instead of the small display, you used an x session (or terminal server for windows) to control the playback? That way, you can have the shortest cable possible between the cpu and the projector and still be able to control it from anywhere (assuming you have 802.11).

    I don't know of a way to control playback from a seperate session, but there is probably a simple way to do it.
    • Hi, Nonac!

      That works, too! I'm also playing with an iPAQ (MS - sorry) and a great package called NetRemote that lets you use that as a remote control via the iPAQ's built-in BlueTooth. If that works out, the display on the HTPC unit will primarily be for information purposes, displaying current song/title/artist/movie, etc.

      Cheers!
      MarkF
  • I have been thinking of getting one of the shuttle computers and having them boot off of my lan grab linux, nfs the drive etc. In essence make it a terminal. The reason I love them so much is that they are very small, compact, can run with a C3 cpu (thus 1 less fan and even less noise) and have slots for a CD-ROM and Floppy. So my remote terminal could have a local cdrom and floppy (which I have dozens lying around). Most remote terminals cost about the same, but have no spot of cdrom or floppy (or any expandability for that matter. But doing some searching last night I wasn't able to find any information of anyone else doing that with the shuttle computer.


    Does anyone know of anyone who made one of there shuttle computers bootonlan?

    -Benjamin Meyer

  • You can get a Philips Pronto IR remote with a color touchscreen for far less than this guy spent on this thing, that would have let him control every IR device in the house. I'm all for hacking for hacking's sake, but no need to reinvent the wheel. Of course, if he just wanted a new PC and the HT control-thing was just an afterthought, then bravo.

    • Re:Nice mod, dumb comment (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The point is modding. Doing it yourself. Getting off that fat lazy ass and making something. Not getting off your fat lazy ass and buying something. Why do people even bother posting if they don't like the story. Just go to the next story and save this for the people who DO care.
    • Its doing rather a lot more than acting as a remote control; that is his DVD player.

      More to the point, its (as far as I can see) not acting as the remote control for anything at the same time as its DVD player duties. Its basically a hack to get a HTPC that doesn't leave you with an ugly on-screen display and sits nicely under the projector, unlike most HTPCs.

      Why use a HTPC? Because a Radeon card playing back through a VGA or digital video out gives at picture quality through his projector that he would need to fork out at least 10 times as much to achieve with a Farjouda line doubler.
  • I'm working on a home theater project myself, and have a Remote Control [compgeeks.com] on the way.

    I've seen the mod on the web, however, and it was a clever hack. Slashdotted now, but the flat pannel monitor had a goofy resolution he worked around with drivers. It would work if you did LAN parties... but I would rather pipe svideo (or a dvi out) to something that gave me a bigger picture for watching movies.

    Course, the point of modding is usually because you can (grin)

  • For your next trick, replace the LCD screen with an LCD touchpad, put a wireless video solution in place, then mount the touchpad right beside your viewing area. :-)

  • Not only did he build the mod, he also replied to almost every single post!!!

    Must be a slashdot record for the highest percentage of posts on a single story...

  • So he's plugged a monitor into a PC and it's small. So what? Why is this considered newsworthy on SlashDot? A laptop would have made a better mini cinema.

  • look at this image insted (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    this one [xenarc.com]

    i can't belive they are proud of it..
  • That internal LCD is certainly not a critical as having a remote!! Grab yourself the SS51G, add a Radeon 8500 AIW which INCLUDES a remote and you're set for far more fun. You can do TV, DVD, and gaming on the same little cube!! Use a little Samba so I can grab my mp3s, load a playlist, and it's a perfect computer for the bedroom. That's all for my mini-rant. Thanks.
  • I wonder how LOUD this thing is...

    I have a shuttle sv24 [shuttleonline.com] and it's really loud. I started peeking and poking inside, and it turns out it's the internal power supply that makes all the noise.

    I wonder how loud the other shuttle models are...
    • Hi, Polo!

      The SS40G/SS50G are quieter than the SV24, and many folks replace the stock fans with Panaflo fans to make them even quieter. It isn't a particularly complex task, but it works quite well to quiet things down. As was shown in the internals shots on the website that I referenced, I've also installed a cheesy looking, but quite effective modification to quiet the Seagate Barracuda IV hard disk (which is also highly recommended - until the Barracuda V ships, this is the quietest hard disk on the market).

      That's one of the main reasons why I highly recommend the SS40G. It's quiet out of the box, and with a bit of work, you can make it _really_ quiet! For an ideal HTPC machine, I can't wait for the SN41, which adds a real-time Dolby Digital encoder, thanks to its nForce 2 chipset, yielding full-time 100% digital sound.

      Have Fun!
      MarkF
  • Though the shuttle has limited expansion slots, it would be kinda nice to have maybe a TV-Tuner display for one of the screens. I know that sounds wierd but.

    you could watch a DVD on the big screen, and the news on the little screen and if it comes up with something you like, swap applications DVD plays on little screen while the TV is moved to the big.. hmm .

    You could call it.. um .. picture next to picture.. heh (I must be drunk that sounds retarted)

    -Prozac can heal the mind but friends may mend the soul.
    • Hi, ProzacGod!

      Not weird at all! On the AVS Forum, one of the hot topics has always been adding a tuner or video input card to your system. This is particularly useful due to DScaler. This program, developed by users from the AVS Forum, is a freeware digital image processing program that converts a plain-old NTSC signal into an excellent progressive scan image for viewing on high-res displays.

      More recently, adding an HDTV tuner card is the "in" thing. If you haven't seen HDTV, you haven't experienced home theater! Even on that tiny little display, you'd get a far more detailed, crisper, and color saturated image than you can see on even high-end NTSC TVs (though the LCD itself would be a limiting factor for color reproduction).

      It works, and looks great!

      Best Regards!
      MarkF
  • This is a great idea. The only problem that I have with this piece of HW is that price of the LCD screen.

    If all I need is the ability to control the HTPC while there is a large screen that outputs the real DVD image, then using a PDA touch screen might be a good idea. Buying a PDA replacement digitizer/screen at GetHighTech [gethightech.com] is 60$ for B/W Palm Vx and 75$ for Color Palm130M (100$ for the 515).

    These digitizers are of high quality, and instead of just showing the desktop and pointing with the mouse, one can draw buttons on the display, and touch it!!! In this case, there is no need for other buttons on the computers, just create a program that performs all the actions from the touch screen printed buttons.

    This can build the ultimate HTPC, since there is no need for keyboard or mouse. We just have to create programs that control the digitizer, and choose what you want to do (like the interface of the new copy-machines that lets you control everything from different "tabs" on the touchscreen.

    It could be a nice OS project, that will give Linux another edge (since nobody will have to know what OS powers the HTPC, the regular MS-Windows interface will not matter!). Serious people that want to build HTPCs will choose Linux.

    Is it doable?

    Liran.

    • I thought a bit more about the topic, and IPaq is better. Costs only 65$ to replace, and it does not have the "Graffiti(TM)" area at the bottom of the digitizer/screen.

      I should have thought about it before sending the first comment, sorry...

      Liran.

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