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Hardware

Gyroscopic Mouse 196

Posted by michael from the only-a-six-hour-charge dept.
Aron Schatz writes "You've heard of wireless mice, but how about deskless ones? This baby doesn't need a suface of any kind to be used. This one comes direct from Gyration."
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Gyroscopic Mouse More

Gyroscopic Mouse

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  • Logitech (Score:3, Informative)

    by bigethespe ( 548709 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @03:56PM (#4072418)
    Didn't logitech make something similar to this with a track ball on it? I think it was called the "surfman" or something like that - really cool... had like a 20' range from the reciever box.

    • Re:Logitech (Score:2, Informative)

      by questionlp ( 58365 )
      I remember setting up one of those in a conference room at work... the problem was that the range wasn't that great and that the trackball wasn't very easy to work with.

      Logitech has something kind of similar to the pointing device in the article, just it's not a gyro based (optical though), it has a laser pointer, and it's based on Bluetooth rather than RF. It's called a Cordless Presenter, more info can be found here [logitech.com] and it costs a lot more than the gyro mouse.

      • Logitech has something kind of similar to the pointing device in the article, just it's not a gyro based (optical though), it has a laser pointer, and it's based on Bluetooth rather than RF.

        Not to be a total geek (isnt this the place tho), but Bluetooth is RF. TCP/IP over Bluetooth over radio freq.
    • With a regular mouse, you pick it up so you can
      move it back to center without the pointer tracking.
      How is this accomplished with a gyroscope mouse?
  • Look! It Floats!

    Who says Penguins can't fly?
  • Haven't these sorts of things been around for a while? I recall "3D" mice being advertised years ago.

    • Re:Been around for a while? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Mr Guy ( 547690 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @03:59PM (#4072441) Journal
      Silly man, those where "pucks". Entirely different. See, these are MICE.

      Differences include what order they occur in alphabetically and number of letters.
      • Geez...this goes even older school than that. A friend of a friend wrote a driver to accept mouse input from his Nintendo Power Glove...for Windows 3.1.

        That makes much more sense to me than trying to grip a mouse with 2 fingers and try and click mouse buttons with 2 others. On top of that, seeing as how mouse usage is the primary use the mouse hand for most computer users, I don't think they're going to be able to hold them aloft for very long.
    • We've been using wireless, deskless mice in our university computer labs for two years now...they can't be too new.

  • Not so new (Score:5, Informative)

    by Spuffin ( 466692 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @03:57PM (#4072429)
    I have a GyroPoint Pro sitting right here. It's a wireless as well as deskless mouse. Also it's from the same company, Gyration. Only thing that makes this one differ is when I searched for the date... 1995.
    • In that case, a question for someone using it now - how does the travel area work? When a mouse reaches the end of a mouse pad, you pick it up and move it to the middle (or you get a special "mouse pad upgrade" only $229 if you order now)... if every movement of the gyro is registered, how do you handle the regular drift that is incurred, resulting in you eventually leaving the travel area?

      Another place where this would be a problem in games, where there is not a set "screen" that you can use to define the travel area - theoretically you could spend the entire game moving the mouse to the right (hint - don't play Quake with a digitizing pad).
      • there is a button on the underside... you have to press it to activate the gyro movement. otherwise it works just like a normal mouse.
      • There's a button on the underside that you press to re-calibrate the mouse after a significant amnount of drift has occured. Just hold the botton down with your thumb and bring your wrist back to the centered position.

        And yes, it is (the old GyroPoint, at least) pretty awkward with a lot of games.
    • Now that you mention it, a professor friend of mine has an "old" gyroscopic presenters mouse that looks remarkably similar. He's "been meaning to get around to trying it". ;)

      I'm not sure what company it's from, but it's a good few years old. I do know, however, that it doesn't double as an optical mouse.

      I'd love to give this one a spin, but the cradle bugs me. What if I'm using the computer and it goes dead? I can't think of anything more inconvenient than to be rat-less (or have to crawl on the floor to plug in a new mouse) while I wait for it to charge.

      The solution I prefer is this one [a4tech.com] from A4-Tech [a4tech.com]. When your juice runs low, you simply plug in the charge cable and run as a wired mouse for a while (2.5 hours).

  • That's all well and good... (Score:3, Funny)

    by peterpi ( 585134 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @03:58PM (#4072431)
    ... but most people do actually have a desk; it's what they put their monitor on!

  • tiredness (Score:5, Funny)

    by elizard2k ( 532787 ) <elizard@eatmyspam.dungeonfyre.com> on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @03:58PM (#4072432) Homepage
    I don't know about this. I can see my arm getting pretty tired after a while (LOTS of hours) of swinging and pointing with the mouse.
    That's the advantage of a desk mouse, you can rest your arm.

    Then again, lots of geeks wouldn't find this a problem due to the extensive use of their right arm, what's a little more going to do? :p

    • Re:tiredness (Score:3, Insightful)

      by spencerogden ( 49254 )
      The article says it has an optical sensor as well. So you can use it as a desk mouse, and then use it in the air if/when you want/need to.

    • Re:tiredness (Score:1, Insightful)

      by masterkool ( 550633 )
      It would make more sense if the mouse could strap to your hand. It seems like that would make using it easier.
    • I completely forgot about it, but I had one of these about 4 years ago. I think it was called "Gyropoint" or somesuch. It looks like the only difference was that you controlled this one mostly by wrist movement instead of arm movement. At first, it was actually pretty nice to use. I liked being able to lean back away from the desk and hold the mouse at my side. But it does put some strain on your arm and wrists (not as bad if you have an armrest on your chair). I think the only reason I stopped using it was because my PS/2 port stopped functioning...that was at least 2 machines ago. Hrm, I wonder what box of cables that mouse is hiding in...
    • The strain works out to very little, and comes more from the fact that you have to hold a button to activate the motion sensor. Othwerwise, it doesn't really care what attitude it's in when you push the button, it goes relative from there.

      You wouldn't use this for long-term computing, but to have it on the sofa for browsing instead of leaning over to grab a mouse is handy.

      I stopped using mine for two reasons: 1. The RF sync system was very touchy and it would lose sync a lot when the voltage dipped. After a while, even replacing the rechargeable battery didn't help. 2. RF Optical mice got really cheap, and work just as well sitting on a sofa cushion as they do on a mousepad, and in a pinch you can use your free hand as a "surface" and hold it in the air.

      --Blair
    • I believe that the technical term for this kind of situation is called "gorilla arm [tuxedo.org]". Named after the ape-like stance that eventually develops after using a touch-screen kiosk for a long period of time, primarily as a result of fatigue from holding your arm up while doing input.

  • Uhmm (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @03:58PM (#4072436)
    The OPTICAL version is new... I have one of these with a mouseball.
  • I'd like to hear some of your ideas for the application of this device in everyday use. I'm sure the ideas are endless and all of the sci-fi flicks should feed our imagination.
  • When one jumps on your back, or spills a Coke over your useful mousage terrain, you're not without a rodent anymore :>
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • His last line suggests this for college students to surf the internet while in bed.

    Wonder what kind of sites his bedtime surfing frequents?

  • This type of mouse has been out for at least a year. I first used one about six months ago. It was neat, but I never felt like I had the precise control like I do with a desktop mouse. The problem was that a person's had can not be steady just hovering in the air. It is really only possible to steady a mouse by using downward pressure on a tabletop. Sure this mouse is nice for presentations where precision is not so important, but for games, I would never use it.
  • "I'm at the edge of the mousepad, I can't go to the right anymore"

    "Well, pick up the mouse and move it to the left of the pad"

    "But even picked up the pointer still follow when I move to the left"

    "Ah, you need our $2000 desk upgrade then"

    OG.
    • Actually, there's a track on/off button for precisely this reason, in midair use. Kind of nice for scrollbars sometimes, you can just put the cursor on the pagedown button and turn off tracking, then click down by pages with no worry about drifting off the widget.

  • Almost there ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Fehson ( 579442 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @04:02PM (#4072465)
    Now once we get rid of the user too, we'll have the ultimate computer.
  • If its gyroscopic and you dont need a surface, then 3D mice arent to far around the corner. THat would be fun playing Unreal and being able to control your X,Y & Z axises.
    • Just out of curiosity, how would a wireless 3D mouse work? Wouldn't that just be a ball you held and moved around in the air with your hand?
      • I know a guy that just used an orange stick to model 3d with the help of a camera. The program ran on a Pentium level processor; the only thing that made it run a little slow was the camera, since he used a cheap one that could only record at 320x240 and 15fps.

        I like that idea much better for playing 3d games. We don't use mice. We use SWORDS!
  • These have been around for a while--I remember using a gyroscopic mouse in a training room once back in late 1999/early 2000. It was nifty, but there were some issues with drift and sensitivity of the gyros. Trying to point with it was like trying to eat with a chopstick in each hand--clunky, awkward, and while you got the sense that enough practice would make you reasonably good at using it, it really wasn't worth the effort. In all, a cute little gadget, but of pretty limited use (not much beyond PowerPointing...)
    • Do you remember the optical mice of that same time period? I ask because you could say the exact same thing about optical mice, provided you hadn't used a new one.
      • Do you remember the optical mice of that same time period? I ask because you could say the exact same thing about optical mice, provided you hadn't used a new one.

        ...I don't doubt that there have been advances for gyro mice in the past two years, but I do remember the optical mice of the same time period as being quite nice, and the gyro mouse I was using was brand-spankin' new...

  • we've had one of these at work for 2 years now, they've been out longer than that.

    slashdot should be ashamed of their blatent front page ads. was it really worth it taco?!
  • > You've heard of wireless mice, but how about _deskless_ ones?

    I have never gotten a desk with a mouse purchase in the past.
    I've been ripped off. Smells like a class action lawsuit to me!
  • is a mouseless mouse! No more wires, no more surfaces, no more little boxes!

    Seriously, though, these things are kinda cool. I had a prof who used a laptop and a projector to run powerpoint presentations, and he had a remote mouse. It wasn't so much of a mouse as a presentation device (two mouse buttons, a laser, and mouse pointer), so it was kind of hard to do precision moving of the pointer.

    We spent a class testing the range on it, though, by moving to other rooms, outside, etc, and changing the slides. That one had over 25 feet range, however, without line of sight required.

  • I've got a friend who's used one of these for about a year with his bookPC. It plays DVD's and browses web (he's got it hooked up to a 27" monitor), and works very nicely, although it takes a bit of training to get real accuracy out of.

  • Wow! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Squonk ( 128339 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @04:07PM (#4072499) Journal
    Combine this with the one-handed keyboard [slashdot.org] and a pocket-sized computer [slashdot.org], and you can look like a complete moron walking down the street!
  • Within a matter of days Grandma will have scrapped this "new fangled remote" because whenever she tries to turn to the Weather Channel, her computer visits hotwetkarateteenswithrubberhoses.com, slashdot.org, etc.
  • I set one of these up at an international conference for Deere & Company back in late '99. It was really handy for the presenters, since they could use the mouse pointer to highlight parts of their powerpoint slides and wander all around the stage while doing so. Almost all the presenters got the hang of it immediately, and even those who didn't just used it as a remote "clicker" for advancing the frames. As far as I'm concerned, though, it would pretty much suck for desktop use.
  • Good thing it works without a surface. At that price, I couldn't afford a desk to set it on.
  • 'Cause it looks alot like an electric shaver..
    • No, there's no detectable vibration or sound. Considering how small the gyro is, it might well be supersonic to humans. My cat doesn't pay any attention to it either. Except to absent-mindedly sit on it just when I need it most...
  • Surprised that the reviewer did not test this with a game or two. It could make for some interesting new games/gameplay, but would suck to have to quit gaming to recharge your mouse during a marathon gaming session.

    I know that there have been previous versions of handheld wireless mice, but they lagged bad, this sounds like it would be better.

    • Re:gaming virtues of handheld mice... (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      My experience has been that it craps out frequently and that the mouse resolution makes it difficult to point at a window's [X], much less a moving office-buddy.
  • If the gyroscope idea works so well why does it also have a traditional ball from desktop use? Why not use the gyro all the time?

    Other then in a niche for presenters I don't see the value. Strange that they market it as a gaming device.
    • Because it is impossible to be as precise with your hand in midair as when firmly grounded, because a change is as good as a rest, and because the gyros can occasionally start wandering, and running it on the desk for a few seconds recalibrates them.
    • If the gyroscope idea works so well why does it also have a traditional ball from desktop use? Why not use the gyro all the time?

      Because gyros measure changes in orientation, not position. I would imagine that when using it deskless, you control the pointer by changing the direction in which the mouse is pointing, not by moving the mouse (which won't actually be detected by the gyros at all).

      Anyone who's used one care to confirm?
      • Yes, that is correct. I would also add that the gyro is really intended for a different application than the regular-old-mouse mode. The gyro feature is most useful when giving a presentation or demonstration where you are standing in front os a projection screen or video wall. Otherwise, I just use it as a wireless mouse with a really long (~100 ft) range.
    • The article says that the gyroscope drains batteries rather quickly... thus the optical part.
  • i'll just stick to the aforementioned PowerGlove.. :)
  • I love my Dyna-Flex PowerlBall Gyro [dynaflex-intl.com] gadget.
    I wouldn't wonder if in a few years you'll see gyro engines popping out on the market. It's a very cool technology.

  • It's hard for me to say without having it my hand, but I gather this can be used like a desktop mouse as well as just in your hand.

    Unfortunately, it looks very much like a desktop mouse, and I'm not entirely sure how it should be held if you're not using it on a surface. It looks like it's meant to be held with the fingers underneath and the thumb over the buttons, but this seems a bit cumbersome to me.

    Ideally, you would still want to click with the same fingers as a desktop mouse, but it seems to me that doing this comfortably with a handheld device requires a completely different form. I think it would make sense to have some kind of add-on that changes the shape of the mouse depending on whether it's in the air or on a surface.

    But again, I don't have the thing in my hands. I rather wish I did. :-)

    • I use this (the old version, the GyroMouse Pro) to teach software workshops to university faculty. It always impresses them a lot.

      The older one, anyway, is shaped pretty much like a traditional mouse, but it has a deep groove in the bottom, just above the ball. (Kinda like the groove in the sole of a dance sneaker [discountdance.com])

      When I use it, my index finger rests in that groove, and I do indeed use my thumb to click the buttons. It is a little awkward, but since I prefer to mouse lefty and am constantly switching mice, I'm flexible with the button-locations anyway.

      What's really awkward, for me, is trying to make small left-right or up-down adjustments. Picking items off drop-down menus can be a real pain - way too easy to slip off the side of the menu.

      But the freedom to move around the room and not get stuck sitting behind the presenter's machine is well worth it. Would like to try one of these new ones.

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @04:15PM (#4072554)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I used them about 5 years ago. I think they'd been out for a few years before that.
      Slashdot is really behind the times on occasion.

  • Three Dimensional Mice (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sam_handelman ( 519767 ) <samuel.handelmanNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @04:16PM (#4072563) Journal
    If you add another gyroscope (perpendicular to the first one) you have a three dimensional mouse.

    Now, the big advantage of a three dimensional mouse doesn't come into play with present technology; the big trick with three dimensional mice would come up if you could map O directly onto the spatial centers of the subject's.... er, user's, brain. This is not as hard as you might hope... er, think. However, experiments with monkey's controlling a pixel notwithstanding, reading someone's nervous system to get I is gonna be pretty quirky and unreliable. Therefore, you want a three dimensional mouse.

    Oh, and, also:
    You won't notice any problems unless your on the computer straight for 8 hours a day.

    Who the hell does he think buys gyroscopic mice?!?!?! Okay, some of the same yuppies who buy Parka's good to -40* Centigrade and never Manhattan. They buy them. Mostly, however, it's people who use their computers all the time! Using your computer for eight hours at a stretch isn't good for you (and ever single person on slashdot should stop doing it!) but I need it as an option, and I don't need to have to replace my mouse at 3 AM in order to keep working.
    • There is an easy way around this. Buy 2 batteries and rotate them.
  • mr hat: look at inrique eglasias hot gyrating ass mr garrison: oh stop it will you...i'm trying to concentrate... wait a minute, thats it!! a GYROSCOPE!!!....
  • I used one of these mice when I worked in IT at my university when I went there. It was a small hand held mouse, w/ two buttons. You moved your arm left/right/up/down and used the buttons to click on things. No wires, no ball...it was a gyroscopic (sp?) pointing device.

    Honestly? It was a pain in the a$$. I preferred a regular mouse behind the desk.
  • I had the finger model, but every time I flipped off my cubicle-mate, it rebooted the system or deleted an important document.

    Can't scratch your butt either unless you remember to turn it off first.
  • wow. That URL [aselabs.com] shows nearly white text on a white background in my browser. Their web designers should be shot.
    • The site and all of its user selectable themes have been Tested in Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, Konquerer and IE. What browser are you using?
      • The site and all of its user selectable themes have been Tested in Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, Konquerer and IE. What browser are you using?
        OK. Looking at the article [aselabs.com] in OmniWeb [omnigroup.com] gives me nearly-white-on-white. That's my preferred browser. Something in the CSS is messed up enough that it's not working. And the CSS validator at W3 [w3.org] confirms that it's fairly brain-damaged CSS, so I presume that's why OmniWeb is choking.

        Remember: don't just check with favorite browsers. You also need to validate to standards.

  • Round about 1982, my older brother and I took a BASIC class for the Atari 400/800 at an electronics store in Pennsylvania. They had a display with an Atari 2400 and some sort of gyroscopic joy-stick. It demo'ed a lousy darts game, and wasn't wireless, but sounds like very similar tech.
  • In the early 80's there was a company that made a joystick which had no base and used mercury switches to detect tilt. You just held it in the air and moved it around, much like this gyro-mouse. It wasn't cordless but damn did I want one! Anyone here actually get to use one of those things?

    LEXX
  • once. It's pretty nice, but at first made my wrist hurt a little.
  • I bought six of their earlier wired model on closeout for $50 each a few years back, and I swear by them. You can use them as a regular desktop friction mouse, or pick them up and use them as gyro mice. Perfect way of varying the stress when your wrist starts to get sore, or getting around the ball sticking when you don't have time to stop and clean the gunk off.

    The models I'm using (at least) aren't precise enough in gyro mode for drawing lines or such. But gyro mode is fine for webbrowsing similar noncritical point-and-click stuff.

    The gyros are really cute, tiny little gadgets maybe a centimeter long and half that high and wide, mounted on a tiny daughtercard. They look perfect for sticking in RC airplanes and such. Gyration lists (used to list?) a development kit for them, but the one time I tried contacting them about it, I was unable to get any reply. They seemed to be busy retreating from the general desktop mouse market into their current niche market.

    Summary: Really cool technology that works like a charm. I dread the day when my last GyroPoint mouse bites the dust. So far, however, it looks entirely possible that they will outlive me...

  • Doh... (Score:3, Funny)

    by T3kno ( 51315 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @04:41PM (#4072694) Homepage
    Crap, how can I click for the next picture when the mouse pointer keeps moving from the top of my screen to the bottom.
  • 1. I thought gyroscopes had to have some mass in relation the forces applied to them in order to stay oriented. It seems like a light 'scope could easily be knocked out of whack easily in a handheld device.

    2. These 'scopes would require lots of power to keep spinning. My cordless optical uses two AA batteries a month.

    3. How do you orient this thing to begin with?

    • Re:inertia and power and calibration (Score:5, Informative)

      by tramm ( 16077 ) <hudson@swcp.com> on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @05:01PM (#4072802) Homepage
      1. I thought gyroscopes had to have some mass in relation the forces applied to them in order to stay oriented. It seems like a light 'scope could easily be knocked out of whack easily in a handheld device.
      It uses Piezo gyros that are angular rate sensors, not vertical references. There is no flywheel to introduce weird mass effects. Anyway, most flywheel gyros are mechanized in gymbals so that they do not exert any force; instead they remain stationary and can be used for a vertical reference.
      2. These 'scopes would require lots of power to keep spinning.
      They're solid state and have almost no moving parts. The Murata ENC05-E sensors used in the older ones draw 2 mA. The MG100 used in the new ones draws about 20 mA.
      3. How do you orient this thing to begin with?
      It only senses change in angular position, not absolute position. That means that there is no orientation required.

      Gyration has more details on their technology [gyration.com] online. I evaluated the gyros for use in my GPL autopilot [sourceforge.net] project, but decided on the Tokin CG-16D units instead.

  • i too had a gyropoint about 5 years ago.

    it worked well -- it was nice being able to let my arms rest naturally, and i found it easy to do precise mousing with it

    the reason i stopped using it was that all of the computing i do involves frequent switching back and forth from mouse to keyboard. (& my keyboard was on my desk). for that reason, it is just easier to have the mouse next to the keyboard and not have to keep picking it up and putting it down.

    ymmv, though. i'd like to try it again in combination with a keyboard in an ergo-proper keyboard tray, just leaving it in my lap when i needed to type something

  • I have used one of these previously while giving presentations. It is really neat and handy, however I tend to be somewhat animated while talking. The pointer was relatively sensitive and danced around the screen during my presentation. I think that it was somewhat distracting to everyone watching.

  • It should be very appriciated for laptops instead of those pesky pads and pins that pretends to be mice. Another great thing to use it for is when you use a projektor and sits in a couch away from any plan surface.

    Just lean back and wave the little thing.

  • It's a cool idea, but the mouse is extremely sensitive to small motions. Unless you have really good fine control of your hands, save your money.
  • Remember Job [ahafilm.info] was using one at VSI to absorbed the accumulated knowledge base of mankind.

  • The package says it "requires" Windows or Mac, but goes on further to say that the special tools it comes with only work on Windows. This would lead me to believe that it doesn't actually require a special driver and the Windows stuff is just the typical mouse settings widget in the control panel. Where I'm going with this, of course, is the question of whether it would work in Linux as a typical PS/2 aux port mouse.

    I really hate that aspect of the home PC industry. The packaging on a product isn't required to be specific about what it means when it says it "requires" something. Sometimes that's a lie and it just means "we only give phone support under those circumstances", and other times it really means what it says.

    • I was wondering that myself, so I hooked it up to my Linux box (Mandrake 8.2). But I didn't know how to get a regular USB mouse working with it so I couldn't tell you. This is just an ordinary mouse, and if you can get usb mice to work with linux, you can use this with it.
  • I don't mean to gripe, but this is just about the most poorly written review I've ever read. From factually inaccurate:
    "The unit uses a NiMH battery which means that there may be a memory problem"

    Um.. no. NiCad's have a "memory effect" [bath.ac.uk] where they lose capacity if you charge them when they're not completely drained. NiMH's don't do this [thepalmtree.com], it's one of their main benefits.

    Plus, TONS of incorrect word usage, grammar and spelling errors, and awfully awkward phrasing. Enough to make our own beloved /. editors look like Professors of Literature. Some examples:
    "I saw a mouse that some very strange and unique features"

    "You don't need a line of site to use this thing"

    "it only took about and hour"

    "To enabled air navigation"

    "You won't notice any problems unless your on the computer"

    And many, many, many more. (And it's a short article!) Either English isn't this guy's main language, or he's about 12.
  • If they made a gyro mouse in the shape of a gun, they probably wouldn't be able to build them fast enough.
  • From the article: I can think of nothing better than to lay in bed and browse the internet not even being near the computer.

    Great! Can the mouse be used from another room? That would be really handy, being able to surf the internet from the next room away from the computer. Heck, you can even bring this mouse into the bathroom and keep on surfing the web.
  • Does anyone else think this might be at least a little annoying? I mean, it would slow me down a lot to have to assign one hand to using the mouse at all time. I often leave the mouse to type or enter strings of commands, and I wouldn't want to have a wireless mouse to use, especially if I can't even expect it to be on the desk. Keyboard shortcuts are great, but this wireless/deskless mouse seems like it would make it hard to use them.

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