Nanoimprint Lithography 206
An anonymous submitter writes "According to BBC News, researchers at Princeton have developed a die-stamp method for chip fabs. The Princeton site claims they've got to 10nm already. The professor in charge has told BBC News Online that they're '20 years ahead of Moore's Law.' Dubious claims aside, it looks like a handy way to bring down prices even if it doesn't improve ultimate top speed."
Moore's Law (Score:3, Informative)
"More than 25 years ago, when Intel was developing the first microprocessor, company cofounder Gordon Moore predicted that the number of transistors on a microprocessor would double approximately every 18 months. To date, Moore's law has proven remarkably accurate. "
From : http://www.cnet.com/Resources/Info/Glossary/Terms
Re:Moore's Law (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, you and the CNet link you posted have it wrong, also. Moore predicted transistor density would double, not the number of transistors on a Microprocessor. Here's the reference [intel.com] from the man himself.
Re:Moore's Law (Score:1)
You forgot something (Score:1)
http://colossalstorage.net/colossal.htm
That doesn't make any sense. I think you forgot the first part of your comment.
10 nm != .1 micron (Score:4, Informative)
1 nm = 1e-9 m
1 micron = 1e-6 m
Re:10 nm != .1 micron (Score:2)
10 nm = 4.97 e-11 furlongs (Score:5, Funny)
Re:10 nm = 4.97 e-11 furlongs (Score:2)
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10nm isn't 0.1 micron (Score:2, Funny)
but what's ONE ORDER OF MAGNITUDE between friends?
Re:10nm isn't 0.1 micron (Score:1, Funny)
That's what she said :)
Re:10nm isn't 0.1 micron (Score:2, Funny)
For reference, here is the complete list of basic units in the news media measurement system:
Important Issue (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Important Issue (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Important Issue (Score:3, Insightful)
what really matters... (Score:1)
Re:what really matters... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:what really matters... (Score:1)
Re:what really matters... (Score:2)
Re:what really matters... (Score:1)
Re:what really matters... (Score:2)
Re:what really matters... (Score:1)
Re:what really matters... (Score:1)
Bah, obvious and trite, possibly uninformed. Smaller is better. With a new process chip-makers can hide more margin in the increased costs of retooling and retraining, which they need to do every time they step down the chanel widths as it is.
At the end of the day, it's becoming increasingly clear that speeed and transistor count will soon be a moot item. Instead, we will begin to evaluate chips based on their native inteligence, and the elegance of their code.
Okay, this chip has sixteen trillion gates, but are they designed in such a way as to be elegant, and do they create strong tools for developers?
Competition will soon be fun again..
-GiH
Re:what really matters... (Score:1)
The deciding factor will be if it really works.
eh, what the hell (Score:1, Funny)
c to the izzex
fo shizzle my nizzle i have no idea what nanoimprint lithography means
Nanoimprint Lithography (Score:3, Interesting)
I was just blown away that we were able to fabricate high fidelity microstructures using what basically amount to a rubber stamp!
Re:Nanoimprint Lithography (Score:2)
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the problem. A given imprint-surface would only be used in a single stage of the process. It would only contact other wafers in the same stage.
If there's more than one imprint stage, I'd assume different features would be needed requiring a separate imprint-surface anyway.
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Great for stamping holes. How about traces? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Great for stamping holes. How about traces? (Score:2)
Re:Great for stamping holes. How about traces? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Great for stamping holes. How about traces? (Score:1)
Re:Great for stamping holes. How about traces? (Score:1)
Traces hell, how do you fill voids? (Score:1)
But how do you make the mold? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am assuming they are relying on something like electron beam lithography to create the imprint mold, certainly this would be a cost/time improvement over direct e-beam litho, but it all depends on longevity of the molds.
-josh
Re:But how do you make the mold? (Score:2)
I'd assume it doesn't take much heat to melt a 10nm-wide strip of silicon. Then again, it likely wouldn't take much to damage quartz at that size, either. And how well would the heat dissipate?
Re:But how do you make the mold? (Score:2)
Re:But how do you make the mold? (Score:2)
Re:But how do you make the mold? (Score:1)
The lifetime of the template is an open question but research on a similar process that I've seen showed that the template lifetime was sufficient to make this process economically feasible.
Re:But how do you make the mold? (Score:3, Informative)
The machines which create the diffraction gratings are called ruling engines, and, not unlike the methods used to stamp metal currency, the masters are used to make duplicates which then are used to make the work tools. Each stage can be replicated N times, so while there is a limited lifetime of the entire process, N^3 can be quite large.
Old news (Score:2)
It has serious problem however in producing the blocks to use in the printing, and aligning them properly in use.
Yay (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Yay (Score:1)
Use it to make a CGI of Natalie Portman covered in steaming hot grits.
Create abstract art based on the goatse.cx pictures.
Create a spell checker that can handle CmdrTaco comments.
Corner the market on beowulf cluster comments.
Did I miss anything important?
Re:Yay (Score:1)
You're from the south......arent you?
Is it pop or soda?
If you awnser soda im going to pop you one.
Re:Yay (Score:1)
Re:Yay (Score:1)
Environmentally friendly! (Score:5, Insightful)
Natural questions arise: just how dirty is the current process? Will the details of the method really prove to be as clean as they say?
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:3, Informative)
Have you ever been to a chip fabrication lab? Those places are nasty; cyanide emergency kits on the walls, phosgene and arsine gases. Bad stuff.
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:2)
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:2)
Fluorine, and no - only Krypton and heavier. Helium, Neon, and Argon are inert enough that there are no stable compounds of them under normal conditions.
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:1)
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to mention the horror stories about HF (watch your bones melt!), phosphine and other gasses which can kill you before you smell them (but the MSDS lists them as smelling like lemon... go figure), liquid scrubbers like Pirhana that meant no contacts (if the system backblasts the Pirhana would melt the contacts to your eyes), etc.
That said, this process will only eliminate Photolithography... which is the process that uses the fewest of these amazingly nasty chemicals from what I recall. But I worked mostly with PVD/CVD and etchers, so I could be wrong about Photo's chemical usage.
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Environmentally friendly! (Score:2)
The Princeton site makes no claim of this being a chemical-free process; all they use the imprinter for is patterning the etching resist, as an alternative to using a light-sensitive photoresist and exposing it to light and developing it to get the patterning. Under this scheme, virtually all of the nasty chemicals would still be present (you'd have a bit more flexibility in choosing resists, but that's just one set of chemicals out of a whole zoo that are needed).
The BBC report claims that patterns are directly stamped into the deposited material. This could be legit, or it could just be a misinterpretation of the resist stamping. Even if it is the patterning mechanism (i.e. if no resist or developing is needed), you still have nasty chemicals used when depositing layers of various substances on the substrate and when etching (which you'll still need to do - pure stamping will leave a thin layer of the undesired material in the stamped region even if most of it flows away).
In summary, I'd take claims of environmental friendliness with a large grain of salt.
Mmmmm tiny transistors (Score:1)
Lower prices means more hardware
More hardware makes geeks happy.
Happy geeks means more slashdot posts.
Good.
See it all works out in the end.
Isn't it odd... (Score:1)
Re:Isn't it odd... (Score:2)
Now there was talk recently about an electron-beam laser that might give this some competition. And when that gets a bit too spread out, you could substitute a meson for the electron...
I think that it they can make this work, it could be a lot better than electron beams, and certainly than lasers. Those really short wave length photons tend to penetrate too deeply, and knock around the crystal structure
(I've never heard of this process before, so I hereby claim invention!! It's MINE! I may even patent it. [Of course, I haven't yet....])
Re:Isn't it odd... (Score:1)
Anyway, any clean electron-beam process requires VACUUM, which increases cost and decreases throughput by at least one order of magnitude, often more.
Re:Isn't it odd... (Score:2)
You are right about the vacuum. And my proposal of mesons would be even worse. But the question is, what are the alternatives. That's probably why this press & fit idea is going to get a good trial, even though it sounds off the wall.
Re:Isn't it odd... (Score:2)
Anyway, any clean electron-beam process requires VACUUM, which increases cost and decreases throughput by at least one order of magnitude, often more.
Uh, you are aware they call it the electromagnetic spectrum? Electrons are really high-energy photons.
New chips - old methods (Score:2)
In the case of semiconductor technology, the die size is currently the limiting factor. I saw someone make a single atomic layer thick diode junction with Indium-Gallium-Arsenide on Silicon over a decade ago, using fairly basic equipment (a home made chemical vapour deposition setup) at a small university. Thickness isn't a problem - it's area. When we eventually hit nanotech, we'll see a lot of small versions of existing technology.
10nm already, or 0.10 micron" ? (Score:1, Redundant)
10nm = 0.01 micron
Company doing this (Score:2, Informative)
Small scale problems (Score:2)
They were intrested in DI (delay insensitive) methods because even if you have a very slow transistor the design will still work and if you dont go through the tranny then it will work at full speed.
chicken and egg (Score:3, Interesting)
Altogether, it looks like a nice process, but it's not immediately clear that it will help.
Re:chicken and egg (Score:2, Informative)
Re:chicken and egg (Score:1)
Hows this good news? (Score:2)
This kinda news is like people using oil instead of hydrogen or other fuels to power cars.
This isnt good, because sure we can keep using this process, but we should use something new and better.
How is keeping intel and others from innovating by improving exsisting technology better than forcing them to innovate and create new technology?
Re:Hows this good news? (Score:2)
Right..... (Score:1)
I'll believe that when it is in production and I am buying the damn things.....
Re:Right..... (Score:1)
20 years ahead of Moore's law (Score:1)
Now why is that "dubious"?
Moore's Law doubles in 18 months, not each year (Score:2)
You're not so fast yourself, bub. Try and get your math right before you get all condescending.
Moore's Law doubles in density every 18 months, not every year. So the correct calculation is 2^(20*12/18), which is roughly 10,321, or 3 orders of magnitude lower than what you stated.
If we can't beat Moore's Law... (Score:2)
(I know, more defects, etc. but it is another direction we can take)
Re:If we can't beat Moore's Law... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:If we can't beat Moore's Law... (Score:2)
With longer traces on the die, capacitance between them increases. This means that the speed that you can switch these traces on and off and get a decent signal out the other end decreases greatly.
Ian (naiive computer engineering undergrad)
Re:If we can't beat Moore's Law... (Score:2)
Re:If we can't beat Moore's Law... (Score:1)
Woah Woah Woah... (Score:2)
--Josh
what moore's law really means (Score:1)
is it that simple ? (Score:2)
woah, that sounds easy !
but can someone explain to me how this will make a difference ?
This is bad news for programmers... (Score:1)
Bah - Gimme a 6502...
A very similar technique (Score:2, Interesting)
The first thing you would wonder about is problems with air gaps and bubbles but they say that this has not been a problem.
They also say that template lifetime does not appear to be an issue but they need to do a longer term study on this.
One of the bigger problems they were facing was pattern alignment because the liquid polymer acts as a lubricant and the template tends to slide around as its being pressed down. They say they have addressed this problem with more rigid and precise mechanics.
Its very interesting technology and its expected that this technology will begin showing up in corporate research fabs - rather than academic research - by next year.
Crystal structure (Score:2, Insightful)
So instead of having a single crystal we could end up with many small crystals aligned along the features that we are creating. I am not sure how much the creation of semiconductors is dependant on having a single crystal, but if it is dependant then this new technique may not be that useful after all.
Re:Crystal structure (Score:1)
What about electron-migration? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd imagine that the electron-migration with 10 nm transistors is pretty bad, not to mention the inferference between individual traces.
I could be horribly wrong, though. Anyone wants to hit me with a clue-stick?
A little math (Score:3, Insightful)
We're probably 20 years ahead of the curve, - Professor Chou.
Seems a little exaggerated. Let's look at the numbers.
The article says they're 100x as dense (in area) as current technology.
if 2^7=128, then technology needs to double fewer than 7 times.
7 * 1.5 years = 10.5 years, far fewer than the claimed 20 years.
And this technology is still vaporware, so even 10.5 years is exaggerated.
Sounds cool, though. It would be nice if this really worked.
Particles? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yeah (Score:1)
Re:Really? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Really? (Score:1)
Re:Really? (Score:1)
Re:Really? (Score:2)
Re:Really? (Score:1)
Re:Really? (Score:2)
I'm sure AMD has *plans* for faster chips, and I'm sure they've even made and tested them. That doesn't mean they're ready for primetime.
He was just joking... (Score:2)
Re:He was just joking... (Score:2)
Re:Really? (Score:1)
Ok, that was a lie, don't sue me for slander.
Re:Really? (Score:1)
Re:Better chip making (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Won't be faster than 40nm (Score:2, Interesting)
hopey